DBDVulture
DBDVulture
About
- Username
- DBDVulture
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032192#Comment_3032192
Sure, Survivors can induce the conditions to make camping optimal, but this isn't always the case. The Killer is often motivated to camp because it is easy and effective, even when it is too early to determine its necessity. A killer inclined to camp won't leave the hook for any reason or at any point. The actions of the Survivors or the state of the trial are immaterial. So to say camping is only a Survivor-created issue is disingenuous.
At high MMR the only option is to camp. Usually the game is 3-4 man SWF or 2x 2 man SWFs. That means everyone has tons of extra information putting the killer at a disadvantage.
If you find a survivor on a strong tile the first chase might take 60-90 seconds. That's three generators. Are you going to do another 90 second chase? No. You wait for the person on the hook to die or you down them again immediately so you have one person 2/3 dead while the survivors have3/5ths of their objective completed.
This allows you to potentially chase one person down when the last 2 gens get completed and maybe hook trade to get one more hook. That puts you at 2 hockey goals so you had fun - right? No you didn't.
What breaks this pattern? If you get super lucky you down the first survivor right before people finish a generator. Then you put the survivor on a scourge hook and pop the generator. Instead of losing three generators you only lose two. Now you will 100% camp that generator and the survivor because it's a "double objective".
A 2.5% base kit kick is nothing. BBQ is the perk killers should have been given as base kit - know why? Because it says go over here and you have a guaranteed chase.
-
@Nicholas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032016#Comment_3032016
They didn't nor camping. The camping issue isn't limited to post-rescue situations; the other problem is getting the rescue in the first place. The Killer already waits out BT; a five-second version won't achieve much. The haste status effect is also pretty limited; the tunnel resumes even with Guardian or Adrenaline.
Camping is a Survivor created issue. If you rescue quickly before the killer "solidifies" the position it is easier to get the rescue. The problem is that most survivors want to do gens before rescuing freinds.
That leads to a scenario where now the killer is forced to tunnel to catch up. You will lose the game if someone is not dead by the time 1-2 gens are left.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030855#Comment_3030855
How am I wrong when I’m telling you what I actually run?
You aren't playing the changed version of pop. Nerfed pop will be utterly pathetic and it will become a dead perk.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030728#Comment_3030728
Just FYI it's 1.8 seconds to kick a gen as of this next update, not 2 seconds.
And yes, obviously I see the difference, I'm saying that 11.6 seconds lost plus putting the gen into regression is worth it, especially if you pair it with another perk that triggers on a kick like Call of Brine or the new version of Overcharge, etc. Pop doesn't need to literally do 20 seconds of regression every kick to be worthwhile.
And that's where you are wrong. You don't get 6 perks slots - you get 4 so you will use Overcharge+Call of Brine not Pop.
We get a "built in" pop that is 90% reduced while BT is 5/12 of the current perk.
BT should be giving 10% of the current perk - just like "base kit pop". That means you should get 1.2 seconds of built in BT.
-
@jamally093 said:
It's a d---he thing to do I would get it if the person was just being toxic but when the person literally as done nothing toxic(teabagging,flash light spamming anything that can be toxic) then it makes no sense for tunneling if the person did nothing bad.
Why do survivors finish gens instead of getting every gen to 20% and then get all the gens to 40%?
This is literally the question you are asking.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030410#Comment_3030410
And I already said Pop Goes the Weasel is still giving decent regression as long as you don't waste it on a low progress gen. You're talking about using it on a 25% gen and I said as long as you stick to 50%+ completion gens the regression is fine.
And no, I've been using Pain Resonance mainly for the regression, not the tracking. Maybe you don't care about 15% regression per hook but I do.
Pop is dead. 50% progress - you get 20% of 50% You would get 11.6 seconds of regression requiring 2 seconds of interaction time. Thats a net gain of 9.6 seconds.
Old pop would save you 20 seconds for 2 seconds. See the difference?
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029750#Comment_3029750
Yeah that is a big difference.
If it was just the first time you're unhooked that's much more balanced.
I have doubts but I guess we will find out with the PTB.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029329#Comment_3029329
I disagree, I use Scourge Hook Pain Resonance almost entirely for the regression and its regression is actually buffed now because it's 15% of 90 seconds instead of 80. Also Pop Goes the Weasel is still perfectly fine since unless you waste your kicks on low progress generators you're still getting a good 12-20 seconds of regression per kick.
I just explained the math on how you are not. If you kick a generator at 25% right now it goes to zero. After the update that generator will lose ~8 seconds of progress. It takes you 2 seconds to kick that generator.
You will say that now about SHPR and you will see that the information is what makes it work.
-
@akaTheBARON said:
Tell me you're a killer main who camps because you can't loop tiles without saying you're a killer main who camps because you can't loop tiles XD
a medium skill survivor can loop m1 killers better than it is possible to chase on those tiles. You don't realize that is how the game works though do you?
And then a killer like Nemesis, PH, Plague who are a huge step up from M1 can once again be looped by high tier MMR players beyond what it is possible for the killer to hande - purely as a function of game mechanics.
But only the very top 1% of players can do much of anything against Blight and Nurse because those two killers change how a chase works. Those two killers are required to make a mistake for them to not hit you. Every other killer in the game requires the survivor to make one or two mistakes to score a hit.
-
@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029743#Comment_3029743
The game has plenty of aspect beside generators, so I think this perk has meant to be reworked for those non-generator situations.
In non generator situations you can stand at a corner and see way too much information as survivor anyway.
-
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029714#Comment_3029714
I'm not talking about end-game, I'm talking about early/mid-game. You should hit Survivors right after they get unhooked to deny their OTR for the rest of The Trial
I had already planned on it - assuming it is true that OTR only activates once per game.
-
@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029722#Comment_3029722
You can't see every direction at the same time, so no.
When working on a generator there is generally only one "ambush" direction. Watch that direction and ignore the rest.
-
@Adaez said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HQZ32ZDGHW6D/indhfghfghex.png
The next strongest killer in the game does not come even close to a Nurse potential and power.
So without repeating the same things that we're said over and over again about how strong Nurse is and why,how would you nerf her?
Now this may seem like a bit much,but this is how I would nerf someone that has the power to ignore everything in the game to make it fair and balanced.
Make Plaid Flannel basekit.
Make Nurse a 110m killer.
Reduce her blink charges to a maximum of 1 at all times.
Remove blink recharge cooldown.
Rework addons that gives Nurse aditional blink charges.
This will make Nurse easier to learn while still being very strong played by a good Nurse player.
I honestly think there is no middle ground when it comes to Nurse,she needs a heavy nerf to be considered fair to go againts.
Before we change nurse at all we need to nerf SWF. SWF is the single largest advantage you can get in DBD at no cost/resources. As soon as you are in a SWF with voice coms you have an information advantage over the killer. That needs to change.
How to nerf nurse fairly?
1) Make all killers have a "damage animation cooldown". For huntress she would do something like juggle a hatchet in her hand if she hits with a hatchet. For Nurse she would wipe her weapon and then have fatigue. This would require her to blink for distance to continue a chase. Then she would be potentially able to blink to score a hit.
2) remove her Omega blink addons - these are gross, unfair, and oppressive. Both Oh Tofu and Hens made videos about it.
3) If Nurse charges a blink for too long remove her ability to "cancel" a blink by looking at the floor. Make her go zoooooooooooooming off for the distance of the blink she charged. This will prevent nurse from doing a "catch 22" play.
These three changes would make Nurse into an A tier killer instead of an S tier killer. It would make her have more counterplay and be a lot more fun to play against. It would also make her much harder to play - so make plaid flannel basekit?
-
@Mandy said:
I want to clear something up with regards to Spine Chill.
The perk is going to work exactly as we stated in the Dev Update, with the line of sight requirements...however we are adding a visual indicator for the strength of the terror radius. This is down to the amount of accessibility comments that we have received. This is also not a permanent solution - we are working on accessibility improvements and when something has been implemented, that part of Spine Chill will be removed.
Sorry for the confusion caused around this. And we do agree, it's not ideal for players to have to run a perk in order to play the game.
You're effectively removing the value of this perk to a point where no one will use it. I've been using this perk for 6 years and it will be time to relearn how to play the game.
If the killer need direct line of sight to me won't I see them anyway? Honestly this is probably a fair change for stealth killers - but you effectively deleted this perk.
-
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/331267/off-the-record-is-once-per-game
You could just hit the Survivor after they get unhooked
They changed DS because it created an unwinnable scenario for killers during end game. You down someone right before they crawl out the gate but they have DS so you can't touch them and they get a free escape.
-
@ihateboons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029532#Comment_3029532
No he should not have been able to hit through that vault. That was technically through the wall. He was too far away, already on the ground running, and on a different level of the playing field. The way hitboxes work, M1 has a specific top/bottom area of effect. Which is why you can drag Nemesis' tentacle and hit people.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029423#Comment_3029423
Needing a VPN isn't the issue. You can set your VPN connection to -anywhere-. So why are players jumping onto servers anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000 miles to an upwards of 30,000 MILES from their actual location?(ie: russian connecting to north america) That's the issue. Not someone 1,000 - 2,000 miles away. Porting connections through a VPN can have undesired effects, especially if there is a geographical issue between hubs.
Servers should be allocating you based on location, and there is no country that I recall DBD being banned in, except China(videos/streaming)... But they have extremely poor servers in comparison to most other games as it is. Their servers are struggling. At this point VPNs are used for security reasons, trying to get on the same servers as your friends or intentionally using it to get an advantage. But since VPNs don't hide your latency, there is no reason at all what so ever that BHVR cant step in and do something about it.
Hell, back in my teens on dialup, if you used ISP's like Netzero... players would ban you for cheating in comp games(doom, mechwarrior, etc) because the high packet loss would make you virtually invincible unless you shot anywhere from 2-50 character lengths a head of them.
Thats not what the video shows. Freddy has a deceptively long lunge range b/c he is short.
-
@ad19970 said:
First the positives: The upcoming patch for DBD has a lot of great changes. This is easily the biggest patch DBD has ever received, and having all these balance changes and the meta shake up is something DBD really needs. I am also sure this patch took a lot of work, so it's certainly impressive.
With that said, the biggest issue with this new patch is the fact that, when it comes to basekit changes, survivors were kind of left out this time around. The changes to killer, besides the bloodlust buff, are all fantastic.
The 10 seconds time increase of gens is particularly big. In theory, this adds 50 seconds on top of survivors objectives, which is almost another full minute. However, once in game, you'll notice it will be even more impactful, because good killer players will be able to get even more out of this change, when applying proper map pressure, and that will lead the extra objective time to further accumulate. It's not a complete rarity to have a generator pop right before you can intercept it.
All the other buffs for killers are also great, especially some of the chase buffs, since those help M1 killers in particular. The one exception being the bloodlust buff.
Sadly, survivors didn't get the same treatement. With killers having their frustrations addressed, survivors should be getting the same. But the 5 second endurance and haste status effect after being unhooked just won't cut it, not even close. Even worse is the fact that, because gen times are being increased, camping is actually being buffed, which is beyond bad.
So in the following I am going to list all changes the game absolutely needs as well when the patch goes live, and I hope the devs will be able to make these improvements, or I fear the game will not be in a good spot for a while, until these issues are addressed:
- Increase the endurance and haste status effect duration after being unhooked from 5 to 12 seconds
- It has to be at least 10 seconds, but 12 would be even better in my opinion. With BT the effect would last 22 seconds, but that is fine, because tunneling, and staying near hooks, needs to be both encouraged and discouraged. It's as simple as that. Unless of course you are yearning for those juicy 20 minute killer queue times.
- Another effect I would really wish to see is to have survivors unhooked not leave any scratchmarks, pools of blood, and not make any grunts of pain during this duration, so survivors that were unhooked have a better chance of actually escaping
- Increase the hook phase duration from 60 seconds to 80 seconds
- This one is probably the most important one of all. Since gen times are increased, the hook phase timers also need to be increased. Now somebody did the math, and in order to keep the hook phase and gen time ratio pretty much the same as it is now, the hook phase would need to be increased to approximately 67 seconds. However, that's NOT what needs to be done. Now that killers are getting so many nice buffs, BHVR absolutely has to take advantage of that and actually nerf camping, finally, after like 6 freaking years. It's beyond unfun to go against, and it takes almost no skill at all. I do not know any other online pvp game that has such an effective strategy that takes so, so little skill. The only thing even remotely close I can think of is Bastion in the lower ranks of Overwatch, and even that is barely a valid comparison
- Remove hook grabs
- For obvious reasons. There is no reason this insanely outdated mechanic is still in the game, it just makes it unnecessarily difficult to unhook another survivor, and more importantly, it hurts newer players far more. A few people have argued that survivors shouldn't be safe when unhooking in front of a killer, but they still wouldn't be. The killer is still able to injure the unhooking survivor normally, especially with the nice M1 cooldown reduction, and if the killer has just a few braincells, they will often simply be able to trade. But again, there is no reason to give killers such effective tools for something as skillless as camping.
- Revert the DS stun duration nerf
- What a terrible, terrible nerf. I am not a fan of the end game deactivation, because survivors should have a fair chance of getting a 4 man escape, but if the endurance and haste status effect duration is increased, I don't think this would be too bad. The stun duration decrease however is absolutely awful. Against killers like Blight and Nurse, it will be almost useless. There is no way on earth this can make it into the live game.
These changes will 100% need to happen, and hopefully together with the other changes in the midchapter patch. Sadly I am not that optimistic that will happen. But if it won't, I fear a fair amount of survivor players, especially solo queue players, will leave the game, at least until these issues have been resolved.
This patch has some other issues as well, especially certain perks being overnerfed, like Self Care, Ruin, Spine Chill or the already mentioned DS, and some perks being overbuffed, like Overcharge, Eruption or Off the Record. But by far the biggest problem with this upcoming patch is that the basekit changes only address the killer frustrations properly, not the survivor frustrations.
You have never played at high MMR and it shows with a statement like :" Increase the hook phase duration from 60 seconds to 80 seconds".
Do you know what happened the last time we increased time to kill on hook? It changed survivors from trying to get quick rescues to - using the extra time to rush generators. Every time a generator is completed it makes killers realize the game is almost over so they need to wait by someone on a hook to force stage 2 or maybe camp them to death.
The survivor objective can be completed in 3 minutes by a tournament level SWF. The objective can be completed in 4 minutes by "old school" red rank survivors without voice coms. Until killers have tools that are more effective than camping/tunneling that will be the strategy.
Consider for a moment a typical DBD chase. You spend 20 seconds looking for a survivor(late game this becomes map travel time). You chase them for 10 seconds and get a hit. You wipe your weapon for 3 seconds. You chase them for a minimum of 20 seconds and hit them again. You wipe your weapon for 3 seconds. You pick up the survivor and carry them to a hook - this takes 10-15 seconds on average. Upon hooking a survivor you have spent 20+10+3+20+3+15 seconds = 71 seconds. And then they take more time to die on the hook.
At high levels of play this leaves 9 seconds for the killer to reach a generator and stop the survivors from completing it. Hope you had scourge to reduce the progress by 15% and hope you have pop to reduce it by another 25% when you get there - oh wait both of those perks are dead in the rework.
What you actually need to discourage camping is to make the survivor bleed out very quickly if the killer is far away OR have all generators take longer to repair if someone is on a hook.
Imagine for example if the survivor time to die on hook were reduced by 10 seconds per stage if the killer is more than 16m away from a hook. You would be forced as a survivor to rescue much sooner.
Imagine if hooking a survivor stopped all generator repair for 10 seconds as a base kit feature. This would give the killer theoretical time to walk over to a generator and use Pop.
Imagine a base kit feature that blocks one generator for each person on a hook - if the killer is beyond 16m. This would literally force one player off a generator.
- Increase the endurance and haste status effect duration after being unhooked from 5 to 12 seconds
-
He attacked before you vaulted and you got hit - that's the expected outcome.
-
@Parusoid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/330582/why-is-bt-getting-buffed-in-the-meta-perk-nerf
Because you get endurance effect by default when unhooked, so they needed to make this perk still viable to use
So why are they completely destroying Pop? Nobody will use it with the proposed changes. If they were going to fairly nerf it they should have changed the effect to be 17.5% so when you add the 2.5% it still removes 20% of a generator's total progress with a single kick.
BT is literally the only meta perk in the list that got buffed. Everything else got a negative adjustment. BT needs a negative adjustment or it will be even more meta.
-
@Mazoobi said:
This patch was something...
But it seems like there's no acknowledgment for solo que at all. So self-care having a high pick-rate justified it being gutted, stomped, and thrown to the dumpster? Oh okay sure.
Killers getting general improvements, but nothing to help solo's? The mini base-kit BT will do VERY little if not nothing in a solo group.
When can we expect to have changes that are suppose to bridge the gap between solo's and swf's? This gap is responsible for the balance too.
You as a survivor main need to ask for SWF to get nerfed.
They won't listen when killers ask for it - as we've been asking for it for 6 years.
For 5 years they told us SWF offers no advantage. Then in year 6 they said, "oops - we discovered it gives a 15% increase in escape rates".
Also we're not going to nerf SWF for the 40 perk shakeup - even though SWF is the most broken and unbalanced aspect of DBD.
-
@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027845#Comment_3027845
Should be interesting to see what the ratio looks like after this update.
You may be camping bots in the near future.
Sounds fun, right?
I'm guessing you're not aware that survivors are by far the huge majroity of the active player base? People looked into who was in the que for 24 hour periods. There are regular times where there are 4000 survivors in queue and only 30 killers.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029405#Comment_3029405
DBD currently balances for all players, as far as I can see; it just hasn't done enough recently to tackle problems in the mid tier.
Which, ftr, is probably where you and the vast majority of other posters are. That's not an insult, we just know there are very few people at the MMR cap and it's not exactly hard to just say "oh yeah I'm at high MMR and it's miserable".
Anyway, if your take is that high MMR should be kept in mind too, given exactly equal weight to all other players, I agree. After all, that was the point I was making!
Most of the people I play against are in the 2,000 to 5,000 hour range. I regularly play against DBD tournament team players.
"if your take is that high MMR should be kept in mind too, given exactly equal weight to all other players, I agree"
That is not the sentiment I took from your message.
-
Killers without movement powers are better off camping.
This will not change until:
1) Killers get a perk that makes survivors stop repairing a generator immediately to get the person off the hook. Imagine for example if this game rule were added without a perk slot: While one survivor is on a hook one generator will remain blocked as long as the killer is more than 16m away from the hook.
2) All killers have some form of mobility to traverse maps larger than 9000m². There could for example be a "cross map teleport" added as a map element that only the killer can interact with.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029393#Comment_3029393
...Wait, what does any of that have to do with my statement?
"Games should be balanced with all their players in mind"
That means games should be balanced with high/mid/low players - not just low/mid.
DBD only balances killer for low/mid tier experiences. So you either quit or change to Nurse/Blight.
-
@Mandy said:
Looping is an integral part of the game and it does take some skill which is where newer players tend to struggle.
As a killer, you also get bloodlust plus perks to help you to shut down loops if you're struggling. I completely understand when you are new it can be hard to learn how to play around a survivor who is good at looping and learning specific tiles, there are quite a few YouTube videos out there that explains tiles in more detail and how to play them. But I can definitely say, looping is not going anywhere - chases are one of the main parts of the game.
There's an exploit where as a survivor you can turn off bloodlust. I reported it previously and it never got fixed.
-
Watch high level killer streamers. You will see the limitations of any killer they play when they go against a high MMR team.
You will see people juke Nurses/Blights and everything beneath the best two killers.
-
@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029329#Comment_3029329
The perks work. Not in theory, in practice. They're not very effective, but they do function as advertised and they do stop survivors from tunneling gens.
Do you understand the words you are saying? Perks that are not very effective do not work.
Is overcharge an effective gen regression tool right now? No - but theoretically it works. It's theoretically just as valuable as Pop because it costs the same perk slot. This is your logic in action right now.
-
@PNgamer said:
hello,
I expect this topic will upset many here, but I just want to be honest and say what I think.
"Why does BHVR listen to the casuals rather than the high MMR players when it comes to balancing? Simple: the casuals, or at least the majority of the playerbase, are the majority, right?
That's a question I've heard a lot. It's understandable why they would think that. They are the largest part, so of course they should be more important. Anything else would be unfair, in the BHVR's view.
At the end of the day, the majority of the casual community is not good enough for this game. Let's not kid ourselves. We know this to be true. I can give so many different examples of why it's a bad idea for BHVR to strike a balance based on casual games.
In my opinion, most of the community is extremely divided. It often can't really agree on anything unless it's something they hate, and even then the decision on what exactly they hate is split.
Back to the topic
A streamer once gave a good example with a perk: Take Overcharge. The skill check is not really a problem for experienced players and is easy to do. We all know that, but for players with low MMR it looks different. So when balancing, you would have to work on the respective perks as well, right? This means that if the developers made the skill check even harder, it would be more frustration than joy for the majority of players.
That's one of the reasons why developers focus on balancing the majority of the community. That's how I see it, too. What do you guys think? Do you think it's better to balance the game based on feedback from players with high MMR?
Let's discuss
The problem is that there is almost no balance measures at high MMR. Look at high level play and you see:
1) gens done in 3-5 minutes with almost no variation
2) pixel perfect looping. This is a problem for every killer that isn't nurse /blight
3) most of the hook states are completed after all the gens are completed. If survivors played like Marh's team in his experiments they could achieve a 75% escape rate nearly 100% of the time.
@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029300#Comment_3029300
"Killer is when I'm exerting myself, and Survivor is for relaxing." It should be the other way around
That's the cosmic joke. Survivor is both the more numerous player and the power player. Survivors became "entitled" when they became accustomed to easy wins during the infinite window loop era.
DBD needs to get to a point where someone says : Oh no it's Doctor, Clown, Trapper, Michael Myers - with the same gravity they would say Blight/Nurse.
@jesterkind said:
Games should be balanced with all their players in mind, not just the top few percent. This goes for any game, not just DBD.
DBD has a problem retaining killers. It happens likely as a result of the fact that killer becomes unplayable at a certain point unless you are playing the top killers. What happens if Superman dies? Batman has to take his place. Batman can do a lot but he isn't superman. Whenever a high rank killer quits it makes someone not ready for the role have to carry the weight of playing with high MMR survivors.
It's extremely not fun. In times past you could just load into a game press escape and quit. Do that enough times and you were back to "0 MMR". Or you could let everyone bleed out - and the game said you lost because during that time non hook kills did not "count".
Almost all of the killers in DBD are completely unplayable at high MMR (there are exceptions like when you are playing aimbot huntress because your name is CoconutRTS). That sucks. All of your killers are linked to your best killer's MMR. So what happens is that eventually you can only play 2-4 killers and everyone else may as well not exist.
@PNgamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029295#Comment_3029295
What does "abused" mean? The only reason the survivors are currently so pissed at the nurse is because the killers are fed up and have found something that makes it difficult for the survivors to escape. It's just not a killer you can turn over 100 times. As long as the survivors are having fun, everything is fine, but when the killer is having fun, it's a different story, isn't it? Unfortunately, this has become a reality.
"As long as the survivors are having fun, everything is fine, but when the killer is having fun, it's a different story, isn't it?"
DBD is a problematic game because when side A completes their goals it means side B gets fewer points and they just lost a goal. Survivors get mad that they generally only see two killers at high MMR. But they already had their fun getting to that point and are now not willing to "face the music."
Nurse and Blight are the fair killers. All of the cast needs to be upped to their level. Killer needs to be the power role in chases.
-
@Wondertainment said:
The DEV aren't interested in balancing the game for any group in particular. Their goal is the overall health of the game, that is to say what keeps the game in good metrics. I suspect any changes they make are course corrections driven entirely by dips and gains in numbers on a chart. What is a game to us is a job to them, and balancing the game isn't as important as keeping the game in the black. Do you follow?
I know I sound jaded and cold, but I think this is entirely reasonable on their part. There are lots of great games that were perfectly balanced. Most died. There is a reason that game designers have, over time, embraced imbalance in their designs rather than continuing to seek the utopian goal of the perfectly fair game. People like to speculate (and the DEV like to let us speculate) about who they are balancing the game around, but that is all illusory.
If they ever managed to achieve perfect balance, or as close as they can manage, they would be disrupting and changing it soon enough as if they hadn't. They will continue to shake up the game in the same manner they have always done. The stated reason will always be to achieve better balance, but the real goal is simply to shake up the game. It has to stay new and vital to a degree. Consistency is equal to stagnation when it comes to video games.
"The DEV aren't interested in balancing the game for any group in particular."
This is not true. The devs want the game to be balanced for low and middle tier skill players.
The problem is that this lack of balance at high MMR creates the problem of tunneling/camping/slugging. Go against a strong team and you lose if you don't "behave badly" as a survivor main would say.
This creates a scenario where killers learn : if I don't camp/tunnel/slug -then I will be punished.
@Peanits said:
We do not balance for any group of players in particular. The game's for everyone, not just the top 1%. If doing something to make the game more enjoyable for the 1% at the top would make it less enjoyable for the other 99% of players, it's probably doing more harm than good.
I'll share this graph that we've had floating around recently again, but have a look at the width of the lines:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V6HP4SZ9BFVK/perkusagebymmr-killers.jpg
The width shows the number of matches. You'll notice that the vast, vast majority of them are in the middle of the pack. Meanwhile on the top ends, that decreases dramatically (4,227 times less). While these are for perks, the actual distribution of players in terms of matchmaking ratings are very similar. You see a lot of people in the middle, but very few at the ends.
(Prefacing this by saying that this is by no means to call anyone in particular out:) Realistically, a lot of people place themselves higher than they really are. Loads of people claim to be at the top, but there's no way that everyone claiming to be up there actually is. And that's okay! It doesn't matter if you're at the top or in the middle, or even low. Your opinion still matters as much as anyone else.
You do extremely little that balances the game for the people that are regularly playing against high MMR survivors. Do I claim to be the top 1%? I do not. Do I play against the top 20% of players as killer? Yes I do - I see tournament players regularly.
There are almost zero balance measures against High MMR play. You ONLY balance the game for low/middle rank players because that's the majority of the player base. The goal should be to nerf high MMR play where survivors escape way too often without affecting low/mid tier players.
There's an extremely easy fix for this: Make killers and survivors have the same size collision box. This would make looping essentially identical for low level players because they aren't doing it well anyway. It would make looping inefficient at high levels of play so that even the best players only get 10-20 seconds extra in a chase instead of 30-60 extra seconds. Middle tier players would still get a few loops before they need to throw the pallet.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3028154#Comment_3028154
Killers got a 10 second base game gen slow down. That's a significant increase. I can't count how many times as a killer main that I've been at a generator that just barely finished which wouldn't be done with this new 90 second time.
Also most of the killer gen slow down perks were buffed. Ruin is much worse now (I won't use it), Pop is mildly worse but still decent, Corrupt is slightly worse but still good, and Pain Resonance actually regresses more than the current version (since it's now 15% of 90 seconds instead of 80 seconds). Meanwhile all the other slowdowns are either the same or buffed, including one or two that got really major buffs (e.g. Overcharge).
Mildly Nerfed? No look again.
-Corrupt loses the ability to maintain the guaranteed 2 minutes of defense if you down someone early. This becomes pointless except on "setup killers". It already had the downside that it made survivors more likely to do gens with multiple people.
-Pop loses guaranteed 20 seconds of progress. Instead it will do 20% of gen progress so imagine popping a gen now at 20% it goes to nothing. Pop will change to : 20% of 20% which is 4.64 seconds of survivor progress. Add back the 2.5% which is 4 seconds. You spent 2 seconds locked in an animation to remove 8.64 seconds of progress. -This perk will never be viable again.
-Scourge Hook Pain Resonance was valuable because it gave regression & information. You knew exactly where to go to use pop. You had time to get there before they finished the 15% unless multuple people were on it ; by the way the perk told you who and how many survivors were on the generator too. Now you will need to use BBQ. Also it won't combo anymore with Dead Man's Switch. This too is a HUGE nerf overall to what it does now. This perk will lose most of its appeal.
What will happen is killers will camp more because Overcharge+Call of Brine only work if nobody touches the generator. Pop let you touch the gen and you got 20 seconds no matter what.
@akaTheBARON said:
Not every perk listed in the changes was meant to be a nerf, and BT is a must for tunneling, even with it becoming basekit. Its only 5 seconds, thats really not that much. So BT still serves its purpose. If you don't want to run it, great, everyone still gets a little something, but if you want actual BT, the basekit change doesn't make it not worth running. All in all, the only people who have a problem with BT are tunnelers... couldn't care less about them anyway XD
Plus, it not being able to be used in endgame is still a decent nerf to the perk.
If you don't nerf all the metas but buff some of the metas then that's not fair treatment. BT is getting a clear buff and it will be used the same or more which is the exact opposite of the changes. BT is not "turned off" in the end game. You can still run off the hook to freedom. It is only deactivated if you touch a gate door - but by the time you do that the game is over.
@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027740#Comment_3027740
Once again, the perks stop survivors from tunneling gens. Their efficiency is a different argument. There is no survivor perk that outright stops the killer from tunneling.
Theoretical "stopping" that does not actually work is not relevant.
Deadlock works because it works while you are camping. Deadlock will very likely become meta to replace corrupt.
-
@dugman said:
They want fewer people feeling they NEED to run Borrowed Time and they did that by including some of it in the base game for everybody. Now if a survivor doesn’t feel like using that perk they can run something else and not think they’re screwing their team.
That's cool and all but this is going to give survivors effectively an extra perk slot. What did killers get? A 90% nerfed base kit pop - WOW!
I would be perfectly ok with survivors getting a 90% nerfed base kit BT. That would mean the killer has to wait about 1/2 a second after your feet hit the ground before they attack you.
@Coffeecrashing said:
None of this explains why they buffed borrowed time. It doesn't matter if less people would use it, they still buffed one of the most frequently used meta perks.
By that logic, they should have buffed pain resonance, and told everyone that because the game will have more base kit slowdown, that less people would fell the need to use pain resonance.
This is exactly on point.
@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/330582/why-is-bt-getting-buffed-in-the-meta-perk-nerf
its not really a meta nerf, they want killrates to go up, but by making gens take more time, tunneling is also going to be easier, so all perks relating to tunneling have been buffed.
This means you're supposed to tunnel less. BT is not going to be an issue if you dont tunnel, in fact, BT will most likely help you. Survivors now need to spend 10 seconds longer on each gen. Someone needing to mend for 14 seconds is beneficial.
Also, they pretty much had to make Off The Record the way it is right now, because: 1. killers already waited 15 seconds before old BT was done, when BT got nerfed to 12 seconds so killers could have a second option if they needed to tunnel, instead you had killers simply wait 12 seconds and tunnel harder. Now they added a perk where you would need to wait the entirety of a generator before you can hit once. Meaning you're forced to hit and have to assume you cannot down a survivor who just got unhooked.
Since this means, you're gonna go after the unhooker, because that would be literally faster.
Personally, the only change that would be needed IMO is that survivors with Endurance effect will no longer have a collision with anyone else, so they cannot block their teammates, they cannot block killers and teammates cannot block them. This effect should linger 5 seconds after the endurance effect is gone, so you cant use your own collision to check if you can walk through them.
"This means you're supposed to tunnel less."
It will make me tunnel even harder because corrupt and pop were nerfed to oblivion. There is no "basekit" reduction in gen speeds by 25%. Perks like Call of Brine+ Overcharge will be perfectly suited to camping a survivor around a 3 gen. Unlike pop you can kick repeatedly without needing a hook first.
The chases in DBD are just too long vs good survivors unless 1/4 players is dead (and killed quickly). Most games at high MMR play out in one of two ways. When you down someone :
1) survivors stay on generators because they know dying on the hook takes a while
2) survivors want to unhook the person quickly.
With option one you camp the survivor on a 3 gen and you don't leave. Someone will usually show up around stage 2 and you drive them away and this forces other people off their generators. When the rescue happens you tunnel the last guy out and return to your 3 gen.
With option two you can down the rescued survivor again very quickly. You might even kill someone before only 1-2 generators are left. If you have strong slowdown perks you can actually not have to tunnel anyone else the rest of the game.
-
@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3028038#Comment_3028038
Does it sounds like a joke? I doubt there are many players who use every killer equally. Nemesis is among the killers I don't really care about unless I only try to troll survivors and push them into zombies. There are few killers I play less than him.
Nemesis is extremely powerful among the "cant zoom across the map" category of killers. Remove Blight/Nurse for consideration and Nemesis is easily in the top 5 killers with the right build.
He has 4v1 pressure. He can get "something" when most m1 killers get nothing. He can run STBFL with zero penalty (this works out to be almost like an uncleansable NOED). He has an instant pallet break. Zombies and the infection status give good detection on survivors so you need to spend 0 perks for "detection".
He has no real weakness that you need to take a perk to "fix" - other than survivors gen rushing.
His addons are 95% garbage. But he's so strong you don't need addons. Then again the only addons that will actually help you are +zombie speed - so you can't bring pink addons to really punish a group like you could with say clown's pinky finger (which makes him a contender for - not sucking).
-
@Tatt3dWon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/330956/why-are-survivors-doing-this
They are raising their mmr part of the mmr system is time spent in game
That's beyond stupid if that is true.
Finishing generators/making saves while the killer is "busy" should raise MMR.
Leading the killer on a long chase should raise MMR.
These two things should literally be 90% of your MMR value.
Escaping should be a ~10% influence in your MMR. If you escaped and didn't do the other two things then all you deserve is 10% credit.
-
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3028032#Comment_3028032
if time is your reason, then it doesn't make sense.
If they would give me hit / down, then they would gain even more time with that. I can understand not wanting to get downed for emblems, but hit doesn't have any negative effect unless I have Franklyn's, which I didn't.
Survivors will quit having fun the day the devs put in killer bots to "lighten" the load of long wait times. DBD is a griefing simulator. SWF enables survivors to have fun in a group at your expense.
-
@drsoontm said:
Gideon is an awful map for most killers.
As a multi-floor map, Nurse handles it fine though (provided she's competent enough).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027781#Comment_3027781
You handle it well as Nemesis? Any particular reason?
Are you joking? lol. Sometimes when bored I pick that map as Nemesis.
It's very small, very easy to 3-4 gen depending on rng and your corrupt spawn. You can down people at most of the loops. If they pre throw pallets you can instantly shred them. Keeping walls closed forces survivors into very specific paths and this makes it easy to tunnel one person out.
Camp/tunnel someone on an easy to defend 3 gen and you win. You can sometimes do this over and over and over in the same game.- depending on hook, wall and gen placement. I've had gens literally within 10 steps of one another. Once I get built up there is no real way to stop me camping unless you have Mettle of man - charged, instant heal/for the peopo, DH and BT.
-
@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
They managed to open gates and then just wait there. I would understand Teabagging -> just toxic players, normal.
Or they wanted to give hit for extra BP, but they instead wait there till I get close on then leave in my face.
They are not toxic in endgame chat, or during the game.
It's understandable if someone is not safe and they want to waste my time to help them, but when everyone is fine, it just doesn't make sense to me.
You get shards as a function of how long you are in a match. Points don't really matter to me since I've been playing since the beginning.
Forcing the killer to push you out is sometimes advantageous as a survivor. I had a game today vs 3 toxic flashlight SWF people. If one of them had brought unbreakable they could have had 4 escape instead of just 1 person. The last survivor did not leave until I punched them at the gate. This wastes precious seconds.
-
@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027961#Comment_3027961
If nothing changes from what the devs have stated is being released, OTR will 100% place BT. There is really no reason to run BT over OTR.
This is not true and I will tell you why. I run STBFL on Nemy and I usually end games with 8 stacks. I will effectively have 10 stacks.
If I whip or punch you for damage as soon as your feet land you will get hit again in under 10 seconds. It is my intention to always attack the person unhooking before they touch a survivor. If I am "late" then I only get to hit the unhooker once. Then I chase the unhooked.
If you have BT giving you a 7% speed burst for 15 seconds you can run far enough to guarantee you get to a tile of some kind.
-
@rooCraah said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027882#Comment_3027882
The devs decided that having endurance is such a good effect that survivors shouldn't need tonpay a perk slot for it. Survivors will have more perk variety. A big problem from a solo survivor POV is the obligation to run BT so you don't farm your team when the killer is canping. This is no longer the case, as survivors have two good self-anti-tunnel perks instead of one self-anti-tunnel (DS) and one teammate anti-tunnel (BT)
Anti-tunnel perks are not inherently bad, which is why BT didn't and still doesn't need a nerf.
BT needs to not have an increased effect so usage goes down. It should probably only extend the effect 5 seconds so that it's not really worth using. But when you add 10 seconds you massively increase the effect.
People are accustomed to using BT so they will keep using BT.
-
@rooCraah said:
The point usn't to nerf BT. The point is to reduce BT's usage. This is accomplished both by implementing 5 seconds of baseline BT, and by buffing Off The Record.
I prefer Off The Record meta to BT meta, as it lets survivors choose for themselves whether endurance off a hook is worth a perk slot, rather than needing to bring BT for the sake of others.
The point usn't to nerf BT. The point is to reduce BT's usage. And yet the base kit BT effect will be in every game. The new parent BT perk needs to be weak so that people don't bother. The new effect is better than the current effect so it will get more usage.
-
@ColonGlock said:
Killer actions that produce the most points are not aligned with your defend the hook plan besides making the game miserable because you cannot bother to use your brain more during matches. Wraith or Bubba is probably your best bet for this low skill low score playstyle.
If blood points are not your motivation then you probably enjoy taking the wings and legs off of insects too.
Killers that are not Nurse/Blight really cant pressure across map. Large maps = camp. Survivors need to be pressured to come rescue or you lose.
What dbd need is a basekit perk for killer - While a survivor is on a hook all gens are 10% slower and one generator is blocked - if the killer is not within 16m of the hook.
-
@Firellius said:
There's, what, six baseline killer buffs? Out of the three slowdown perks that were nerfed, one wasn't nerfed in its slowdown. There's 5 slowdown perks that were buffed, some getting really strong buffs.
Outside of the OTR #########-up, the patch is overwhelmingly in favour of killers. Yet here we are, with more 'Do what I want or I'll camp!'. Camping didn't even get addressed, despite being the absolute biggest balancing problem.
Not a single base kit buff was : -25% reduction in generator completion times by survivors. Pop wasn't given base kit. BT was however given base kit as survivors.
Did all maps get reduced to 9000m²? They did not so that means most of the maps favor survivors.
Since gen slowdown perks got crippled it will become more important to tunnel.
Did survivior collision width get made equal to killers? No - so chases will still be very long vs high MMR players.
-
@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027199#Comment_3027199
The argument wasn't whether or not these perks were effective, it was that it is, in fact, possible to stop survivors "tunneling gens". What isn't possible is stopping a killer from tunneling. If a killer wants you out of the game, all you can do is delay the inevitable.
You claimed that there is no killer perk that reduces generator efficiency by 25%, to which I countered that Thana and Pentimento both reduce gen speeds.
"The argument wasn't whether or not these perks were effective," - If a perk is not an effective counter but only a theoretical one then the point stands. Are we going to use theoretically effective stealth perks like bite the bullet since IW exists? No.
There is no permanent reduction in gen speed by 25% that actually works. Dying light for example in theory does something great but you will never get the hooks in time to get the bonus.
Since you get -25% quickly by tunneling then that is the answer until we get perks that give us more. Either that or chases need to be WAY faster.
-
@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024700#Comment_3024700
You literally can. Corrupt, Dead Man's Switch, Grim Embrace, Thrilling Tremors, Deadlock all block generators. Pentimento and Thanataphobia reduce generator speeds. So, no, tunneling is not the only answer.
Corrupt will only be viable on a very few killers - those with setup time or special cases like Legion.
DMS doesn't push people off the gens and will lose all combination effects with Scourge HPR. That means you have to walk across the map to push them off - meaning it does nothing.
TT doesn't push people already working on a generator.
Deadlock will be one of the few gen defense perks not touched by the update and it will see a lot more use.
Grim Embrace is an interesting idea but it's a one time effect and is generally not worth a perk slot.
Pentimento is completely worthless. First you have to waste valuable perk slots on hex totems and then the survivors must break those totems. This perk might have been viable if the first effect were to make pentimento totems unbreakable (meaning the survivors must never break toetms once that totem is relit). You will only get the 5x effect against the noobiest noobs who ever noobed - and you wont need any perks to beat that level of player.
Thanatophobia overall is a weak perk because you can only keep the effect active on Legion and Plague. Healing is going to be even faster next patch with BK getting a buff to +50% heal speed. BK+ medkit means nobody will stay injured.
-
@cburton311 said:
you don't understand the point though. The bigger volume of killers is intentional to make looping a strategy. The bigger volume takes longer to loop. if survivors and killers shared the same volume, there would be no point to ruinning a loop at all
I understand completely. If they were the same size it would make looping inefficient. You would never be able to run around an object 4 or 5 times. At most you could do 2.5x loops around certain paths and then be required to throw the pallet. That is the balance around which the game is designed. It is completely broken by players who loop frame perfect around objects.
-
@Bwsted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025618#Comment_3025618
As for entitlement, there's none. They need perks to counter tunneling. That's how the game is designed. Tunneling is basekit. Countering is band-aided with perks. And it's not a free escape, as the trade is very likely. But without perks, the outcome where all get out would never be possible, which would be terrible design.
If you really want to talk about entitlement, then by taking out anti tunneling tools in endgame, you are the one who's implying the killer should be entitled to a kill by virtue of standing at the hook after failing to stop the gens. Removing anti-tunneling in endgame allows for situations where a killer could literally go afk all game, down someone and guarantee the kill. It's the same flaw that obliterated Deathgarden, i.e. a game where you rely on your team but the team can't help you.
And come on, flashlights and toolboxes. This is the same reasoning of survivors telling killers to use lightborn or mad grit.
I mean, I don't want to drag this out. So, we can agree to disagree.
Survivors tunnel generators so killers tunnel survivors. Chases at high levels of play are longer right now than it takes to finish a generator. That may change due to what will happen with DH but we will have to wait and see.
The problem the devs have not sorted out is that removing a survivor is a permanent -25% reduction to generators being finished. Killers need that kind of power in a perk or they will just tunnel someone out - no matter what.
The increased gen times are not really going to matter much for most games. Overall the changes are very soft when you consider survivors can complete their objective in about 4 minutes and the killer needs about 6-8 minutes.
I have an idea that 10 seconds is an eternity for the DBD staff trying to extend a chase vs a killer. The reality is that killers will likely be losing ground with the changes as survivors get a free perk basekit. Killers should have gotten some form of basekit corrupt to prevent gen rushing. That perk is not going to be worth it for 95% of killers anyore.
-
@D2night said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024642#Comment_3024642
Why would adrenaline get nerfed when they didn’t need the actual effect of NOED? BT was actually nerfed by 2 seconds but they added a baseline BT. This update was also to “prevent camping and tunneling” so why would they need something that prevents that? The only reason why somebody would want it nerfed is because you camp and tunnel. And why would they need unbreakable? It’s not an OP perk, it’s the only real perk to prevent slugging. Otherwise you sit there on the ground for 3 minutes. Plus it’s only used 1 time a match. That seems pretty balanced to me
Adrenaline was already made into a usable perk years ago (by buffing the speed and making it so the heal can happen even if you just got off a hook). It's a good perk not a "broken" or over used one.
-
@D2night said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025046#Comment_3025046
i just played a match yesterday where I was using lucky break against an oni. He kept losing me and finding me literally seconds later because of my blood orb trail. Plus the doctor can do the same thing with his huge blast/making tier 3 survivors scream automatically. Im sure you’re not against that though right? Only the survivor side is the one that’s wrong?
Lucky Break doesn't work against Oni because of the blood orb mechanic. Does it work against every other killer in the game? Yes it does. Lucky Break fails vs doctor because you can get hit by his blast or scream because you are in stage three.
-
@D2night said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/330582/why-is-bt-getting-buffed-in-the-meta-perk-nerf
the devs said that this was also and “prevent camping and tunneling update”. Borrowed time isn’t an OP perk and the new update to “baseline borrowed time for 5 seconds” can be easily waited out. Why keep complaining about something that’s useful to healthy gameplay..
First you are a bit confused. I am not talking about the "Freebie" where everyone gets 5 seconds of endurance. That by the way is a HUGE direct buff to survivors because it guarantees the chase from an unhook will last +5 seconds.
Look at what BT does right now and compare what BT will do after the changes. Look at say Iron Will and Spine Chill pre/post changes. See a difference? BT becomes a stronger perk and IW/SC were completely gutted and nerfed.
BT will become even more meta than it is right now because 15 seconds of 7% speed will have a massive effect on preventing tunneling.
-
@cburton311 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025132#Comment_3025132
if you change that there would be no looping only press w
No you would still loop but it wouldn't be able to grant you 30 extra seconds on a single tile and that's the point.
Low skill players are caught by a high skill player in about the minimum time to chase after recovery. Medium skill players might take +/- 10-20 seconds on either side of the chase. They might do something good or bad.
Meanwhile high MMR players can make a chase last +30 to +60 seconds. This completely breaks the game. This value needs to be completely destroyed to "standardize" chase length.
Nurse works - want to know why? Because she has fast chases. You can't really loop her unless you can break line of sight. If high MMR players go from +30-60 to +20-35 seconds DBD would be much better balanced.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025128#Comment_3025128
I would not really call it fair when you have to hope that the Nurse-player is bad (aka makes mistakes) to escape.
And no, the Devs dont use Killrates as their only Data. They already nerfed Nurse and before that she already had the lowest Killrate. But obviously this does not mean anything, yet it is brought up in this Forum, even if we know that the Killrate comes from players learning her and especially newer players who are just not able to perform with her (because she is so different from any other Killer in the game).
The reason why they wont ever nerf Nurse in a significant way is because they are scared of the backlash. If we are lucky they remove/nerf Range- and Recharge-Add Ons. But this is the most they would do.
"I would not really call it fair when you have to hope that the Nurse-player is bad (aka makes mistakes) to escape."
And that is why DBD is broken because the killer - who is the less numerous player should be in control during chases. That's the point of being the power player instead of being the more numerous side.
People who say : survivor isn't fun when I am not in control of the chase fundamentally are abusing low tier killer chassis or are abusing low skill players.
If you play any killer besides Blight/Nurse you have to "hope" the survivor messes up in order to get a hit. They do all the time a low/medium MMR but at high MMR the game is quite different.