DBDVulture
DBDVulture
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@RaSavage42 said:
@DBDVulture I agree with you... and yes the longer the chase goes the more time the other Survivors have to repair Gens
And Survivor players need to understand this more (seeing how they can't play Killer "vary good")
Maps have a lot to do with it as well... and it's not the size that I'm talking about but Loops and Gen/ Totem placements that are the issue
If the Maps are seeded then that should mean that those things are dealt with... but they aren't
Please don't bring up Pros... they don't exist (either that or they spend more time playing KYF rather then the real game) and if they do exist then why are they silent about the game... plus they are either a 4 man SWF or a Killer player that only plays certain Killers
This game suffers from too much RNG to be a Pro game... Maps (in terms of spawns)... perks (they "ban" certain perks)... Killers (again they either ban or have a one time use)
-"Maps have a lot to do with it as well... and it's not the size that I'm talking about but Loops and Gen/ Totem placements that are the issue"
Maps are a huge problem. I've lost every game since the last reset on Thompson House, Fractured Cow Shed, Garden of Joy and Eyrie of Crows as Nemesis. I have won all my games on The Game, Lerys and RPD with a 4k even though I hate playing those maps.
As I suggested before - the spacing of resources in DBD is balanced around low skill players not people with a very high hour count. I think it's important to mention the players who have 6000-10,000 hours that play in regular games. I see them at least once a night. I don't always play against them however because sometimes I just don't feel like it. And while having lots of time played does not directly equate to a skill increase there is a correlation that more time played means fewer mistakes as well as better adaptation.
Overall DBD has a slew of problems.
- There are two effective killers and every other model is defective.
- Map size / resource distribution massively favors survivors.
- By design killer perks are kept weaker than survivor perks (there's an interview from 2016 where M. Cote explains it) even though the killer only has 4 perks to face off against 16 perks. This inequality is fine for solo queue but is broken by SWF. This bleeds into the problem that is swf; it is an insane power boost with no draw back.
- Survivors want to tunnel out gens or "gen rush" but in turn do not want to be tunneled.
- There are no balance changes for people who have 10 hours or 10,000 hours. DBD would be very different for example if each map lost 1 pallet or vault for each rank tier beyond Ash. Imagine for example loading into Wreckers yard except the pallet from the Shack started missing, or there was no window in the shack. Overall just small simple changes would help keep the game fair. Removing 4 pallets/vaults from maps in red ranks would make the game far more interesting than artificial increases in the emblem system.
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@Seraphor said:
The real reason is that killers are also players and they also want to win.
Every buff survivors beg for and receive, every avenue of applying pressure that is removed from killlers, everything that makes the killers objective more difficult, merely drives them to employing cheaper, sweatier, more efficient strategies.
Every advantage survivors rejoice about, leads to more camping and more tunneling.
"-Every advantage survivors rejoice about, leads to more camping and more tunneling."
This is the hard truth that survivors do not want to accept. Why does a killer tunnel? They get conditioned when they play top tier survivors that they lose if they do not.
Also Killers tunnel because getting 4 hooks on each survivor does nothing. As long as that is true then it is better to get three hooks on one person and one hook on a fresh survivor. In order for this arrangement to change Killer needs Base Kit buffs that would apply a bonus for hooking each "fresh survivor".
@RaSavage42 said:
Maps lead to Gen speeds being what they are
Plus having the Killer take a "unwinnable" chase means that the other 3 Survivors have more time to finish Gens
When it comes to Gens (and Gens alone) 1 second in chase = 3 seconds for Survivors
So if a chase lasts 30 seconds then that means 90 seconds for Survivors to do Gens
Plus whatever time between the start of the match and finding the first Survivor converts to 1 second of looking = 4 seconds for Survivors to do Gens... so if the Killer finds a Survivor in 20 seconds then that means 80 seconds to do Gens
Then we all wonder why Corrupt was used a lot... and now Deadlock (or both)
-"So if a chase lasts 30 seconds then that means 90 seconds for Survivors to do Gens"
Most survivors don't play killer or they don't play killers at a level where the survivors are really good. And almost zero survivors can play any killer besides Nurse/Blight (or Spirit with killer instinct) at a competent level.
The reality is people who play DBD professionally as a streamer with 7-9k hours of experience get beaten regularly by people who efficiently focus on generator repair and can loop at a minimum level of effectiveness. The same streamers who play a comp team finish the game with 1-3 hooks. Is that exciting to watch? No. Would it be exciting to play if you were the killer in that game?
DBD is balanced around bad playes who can loop for about 30 seconds. The game is completely broken when you play people who can loop for 60 seconds. And then broken again when you have a bully squad who at the end of 60 seconds takes hits for the first survivor (or breaks a hook, uses breakout, etc.).
Tunneling might not be fun or fair to the survivor but in the current balance it is fair to the killer because chases are far too long relative to how easy it is to fix generators.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207398#Comment_3207398
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207436#Comment_3207436
You don't ever 'have to do anything'. If you are 'having to slug' more than 1 person for more than 45 seconds, you are being greedy, simple as that.
How is the killer supposed to pressure four survivors? It is gameplay changes like this that make the killer realize there is only one solution: Tunnel out one player then do it again.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207998#Comment_3207998
Please don't needlessly buff Eruption any further. Even if on SWF you would have to let go multiple times per chase, risking the random skillcheck tanking another 10%. The current version is already 9+25/surv gen seconds being blocked, that is enough. There really isn't proper counter play when you can apply it to unlimited number of gens, making 3 gens just all too cheesy.
The problem with the 40 perk rework is that overall they tuned the killer perks to obliterate solo players but made the perks do almost nothing vs SWF groups. Overcharge is amazing if you chase someone away from a generator and one person is down and another person is on the hook. The last person can't run touch the gen then go get the unhook then go pick the person off the floor.
Being able to avoid 90% of the eruption effect makes it a strong perk vs solo but a weak perk vs SWF. I play against almost exclusively 3-4 man SWF teams so eruption would be nearly worthless for me to use.
Let me try to imagine a more balanced perk for you :
Kick the gen and when you down someone the generator begins regressing. The regression cannot be interrupted for 30 seconds Any survivor that was working on an eruption generator after it was kicked by the killer is "marked" by a NE-α parasite. Marked survivors cannot heal themselves/others, open chests, or cleanse totems for 20 seconds.
Note: Any regression speed perks such as Overcharge or Call of Brine will be applied to the generator when a survivor is downed. Perks like Dragon's Grip will not be activated by Eruption. If ruin is active it will slow down the generator as normal (but would not stack with Overcharge/CoB).
In before anyone says applying Overcharge/CoB is OP :
The killer should have a 1:1 regression/repair speed ratio with survivors as there are 4 survivors. The only way a killer can "catch up" in the current system is to tunnel people out so that repair speed goes from 100% to 50% potential. This is because the killer has 1/4th the repair speed of one survivor. In other words : the killer has 1/16 the repair capacity of the survivor team.
Why bother kicking gens when you can tunnel someone out?
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
Why though?
Corrupt base kit would cause survivors to rotate on game start or hide. It would be far more likely for there to be an immediate chase.
It would make it far more likely that 2-3 gens will not pop by the end of the first chase.
Both of these things would make playing killer more fun/fair.
@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202054#Comment_3202054
Because it hurts my feelings when the gens get done too quick, just like how survivors' feelings get hurt when they don't have free Endurance and Haste off the hook.
The response is funny and sarcastic yet true.
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207991#Comment_3207991
Against solos it can be extremely annoying and powerful, against SWF's it's still decent. I don't think it's bad at all.
Let's just make one tiny adjustment to Eruption : when a survivor goes down the gen starts regressing and can't be interacted with for 20 seconds even if nobody was touching it.
@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
I finally got my laptop with me, so making comments and posts are so much easier than being on a phone Haha. But now to the discussion.
He released a brand-new video on ranking perks, in my opinion there are so many placements in his list that I highly disagree with.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PT6XQ53X2DBG/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/T6T54GAGRZAD/image.png
For survivor, Reactive Healing is WAY too low, this perk has saved me so much time, I find it to be worth running in any build as long as you have a healing perk or Boon/Med kit.
Same with Low Profile, that perk can come in clutch sometimes, with the new mori changes, there is now more reasons to run this perk.
Object Of Obsession shouldn't be that low either, it isn't good. But it's not Terrible.
The rest for the survivor perks in the list is fine for me.
Now for killer:
Dissolution is also way to low; this perk is so good on killers like Sadako, Clown, etc. I get value from this perk a lot on Spirit.
Dark Devotion is clearly also way too underrated, shouldn't be that low either.
Merciless Storm being better then perks like Bamboozle or Infectious makes no sense to me.
The rest seems okay, I guess.
Long time fan of Otz but I don't believe a lot of what he says/does as I play in a different region. Some of the strategies you see in DBD are regional.
Play any moba and you see : A is countered by B, is countered by C is countered by D is countered by A. If nobody is playing B then A is overpowered
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@ByeByeQ said:
It's really simple.
Give SoloQs something that do not get if they queue up in a team.
It doesn't even have to be much.
How about the SoloQ gets an Object of Obsession effect (sees the other survivors auras for 3s every 30s) but the other survivors only get to see the SoloQ's aura if they are injured and not currently in a chase. Obviously doesn't work if affected by Blindness. A little bit of information every once in a while and a little help getting a heal.
I think this would be a great change to give SoloQs just a little bit of help without going overboard. I also don't think it's powerful enough for people to tell their friends to eff off because they want this mad dog solo power.
The killer is a solo player too and a lot of people seem to forget that. Both killer and solo survivor suffer when they play with/against SWF. How do we fix the problem?
Give solo queue survivors 4 information perks that activate in case they end up in a game featuring SWF. These perks would be picked ahead of time with your 1-3 loadouts and would be inert if the game features four solo survivors. Survivors would be limited to choosing four information perks like : kindred, Bond, Empathy, Alert, Rookie Spirit, etc. You could not pick "action" perks that give you buffs to healing , perks that give you extra health states or give you various bonuses. Solo survivors would only get "free perks" to help bridge the information gap that SWF teams get with voice coms.
Do the same for killer but let them pick any four perks.
This makes SWF rely on voice coms to "balance" it. Solo players get extra perks because they aren't getting voice coms.
As a killer I would actually prefer to play vs SWF teams if I could bring 8 perks of my choice.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202061#Comment_3202061
I'm a killer main. Just saying, Nurse isn't remotely balanced. She needs an entire redesign.
I'd be ok to see Nurse get a "Hillbilly" treatment but only if SWF gets obliterated too. Nurse and Blight are the only killers that make certain maps fair and that's completely stupid. Likewise playing against certain try hard SWF teams, on survivor sided maps with insanely strong items is impossible except as Blight or Nurse.
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If I were to guess - people who have all the DLC probably think the current system works fine.
I have some friends who are trying to unlock things without owning all the DLC; they really resent seeing free perks week after week in the shrine.
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@D4RK1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3204253#Comment_3204253
So I'm a Killer main and I'm honestly not going to argue against most of your points because they're valid. But I believe my suggestions accommodate for the situations you have trouble with and, again my point isn't just that Camping and Tunneling should be 100% be eliminated from the game or even be punished if it was to be done at any and all point in the game.
But I do want to bring up that it's a tough balance between SWFs of varying skill levels vs Solo Queue and these changes are meant to just improve quality of life for all groups of players. In fact, they're sort of oriented towards assisting newer players and Solo Queue since those tend to perform less well than SWFs, much less competitive SWFs.
The biggest points of my post are that if you're literally just tunneling out one player of the game from the beginning (hence, 1 player dying before at there are a total of at least 2 other hooks on any combination of players which can be just 1 other player) and just ignoring all other players (here's an example of both the kind of tunneling and facecamping I'm referring to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7FfYFnRqJQ&t=1070s), you should be penalized for it.
In your case, if 3 gens pop in your first chase, then I absolutely do believe you should start to do a bit of camping/tunneling to get the edge in the game and again, my suggestions accommodate for this. At 2 Gens or less, the penalties for Camping/Tunneling should deactivate.
I do want to point out however, that if the majority of your games result in 3 Gens popping during your first chase, that this is likely a problem in skill as in my experience as both Survivor and Killer, usually 1 Gen will pop during the first chase/unhook, a 50/50 if 2 Gens pop during this, and rarely will 3 Gens pop during the first chase (and this is usually just in the situation of the killer finding a REALLY good team or even just a REALLY good looper). If this isn't happening in the majority of your Killer games on the other hand, then great, what point is there to Facecamping and Tunneling at that point?
-"So I'm a Killer main and I'm honestly not going to argue against most of your points because they're valid. But I believe my suggestions accommodate for the situations you have trouble with and, again my point isn't just that Camping and Tunneling should be 100% be eliminated from the game or even be punished if it was to be done at any and all point in the game."
Some of the maps in DBD are nearly impossible to win unless you play Nurse/Blight or have exactly the perfect killer+perk setup to defeat the cheese the SWF group plans to use. Thomspon House/Fractured Cow shed, Gas Heaven and Eyrie of crows are examples of maps that are just nearly a guaranteed loss vs "old school red rank" survivors playing with voice coms. It's ridiculous that you need to play Nurse/Blight to have a fair shot on maps such as these.
-"I do want to point out however, that if the majority of your games result in 3 Gens popping during your first chase, that this is likely a problem in skill"
Everyone is always so quick to say : you might be the problem. Yes there is a chance you are right but you're not when you consider the survivors I normally play against. The majority of people I am playing against are try hard 3 man SWFs. Most of them range from 2000-6000 hours but every now and then I will see someone with 10,000 hours or more. I'm not afraid to play against someone who has a high hour count; I am an experienced player who has also spent at least 1,000 hours watching people better than me play so I know far more tricks than I should.
Let me walk you through an example game where I play on a map like RPD. The central room and 3-4 connecting generators are the only part of the map you need to control. Typically I will harass to get a 2-4 hits and only commit to a chase I can end quickly. The goal is to hook someone in the middle hook of the main room without losing any of the close by generators. If you can do this and you have 3 close by generators the game is over - the other team just doesn't know it yet. If necessary I will camp the first person for 2-3 stages. If you lose the central hook you can use the hook at the top of the stairs and repeat the central defense dogma for the next victim.
This isn't some sort of punitive revenge strategy. It is a pro-active "I'm not in the mood for this map to be played any other way" strategy. Largely speaking this map isn't fair for the killer either. The only way to make it fair is to slow down the game. Survivors know they need to rescue and pressure gens but neither of those is an option if you play hit & run while someone is on the hook. The goal is a systematic destruction of resources around the main room that turns it into a de facto death trap. As long as you keep trading survivors and making sure they can't really break your three gen you will win as soon as you hook in the center room.
I'm 100% sure this is zero fun to play against. But as a killer I don't get a map veto option to abstain from unfair maps; nor do I get an option to play against solo players without voice coms. So I will play in whatever manner guarantees me the win - without resorting to cheating regardless of how it makes the other team feel. That being said I will usually lose 2-3 gens setting up the main room trap. Quite often every remaining generator is impossible to touch for longer than about 10 seconds
You can actually play quite a few of the maps this way if you want. And I do when the map is completely busted. As a result I get called a camper and a tunneler. But I have zero patience to try and play against SWFs who can regularly finish gens in 40 seconds as a pair (some can do it solo in about the same time with HF). It's been known for a long time that the killer objective take 6-9 minutes while the survivor objective takes 4-5 minutes. Better survivors make your objectives take longer while finishing theirs faster.
People sometimes laugh when I mention "tunneling gens" but it is 100% just the same as tunneling out survivors. People play the game in an efficient manner so they can win. It's not fun to have the killer chase you three times in a row so you die and miss most of the game. It's not fun as killer to one get to two to three hook stanges before all the gens are finished. What kind of game can you expect when you need to try and get four or five hook stages at the "end game"?
Tunneling is a two way street and it needs to be harder to complete generators when people play in a SWF. Deadlock should probably be base kit and it should have some kind of roll back so that two gens at 99% cannot both get completed by synchronized survivors so that one gen will always be locked at 99% completion instead of having a 0% generator be locked.
To emphasize the point clearly : SWFs absolutely break DBD and the devs refuse to make adjustments. I understand that many people would quit if SWFs got balanced fairly. But many killers regularly quit because the game pushes them to only play Nurse/Blight or not at all. It would be one thing if most of the killers had a MMR soft lock where they just couldn't play against high skill survivors. But survivors would not like that at all. In fact they hated it several months ago before MMR had the rules changed because the high skill players were only playing Nurse/Blight 9/10 games.
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@D4RK1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202940#Comment_3202940
This would definitely be a great argument if I was indeed arguing for Camping/Tunneling to be completely removed from the game, but I'm not. Even the changes I suggested state that the penalties and whatnot for doing so should be removed once there are 2 or less Gens left to be done. This is specifically to counter early game Facecampers/Tunnelers who do so because they can't earn bloodpoint or "win" as killers otherwise.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203439#Comment_3203439
So actually the reason for not wanting to be hooked also deals with the Emblem system because the only way to get the Survival Iridescent Emblem is to just not be hooked. And honestly, I think that should be changed because it discourages players from taking protection hits and trading on hook for one another.
Sorry, but if one side's sense of fun is not wanting the other side to have fun (Early game Facecamping/Tunneling) then I don't believe that view of fun is valid. Again all changes I suggested are to address Killer who jump into a game, grab a Survivor, then Facecamp them or Tunnel them out, usually before even 1 or 2 Gens are done.
Another thing is that Survivors don't always "Tunnel" out or Rush Generators. And if they do, they're usually good enough that these changes already accommodate the fact that late game will be reach relatively quickly. Now if you're arguing that Gens are done too quickly, honestly I don't often find it to be a problem when I play killer at all MOST of the time, but when it's clear a group is in a SWF, that changes sometime. But In those cases, when I finish a chase and 3 Gens are done at once, that's the late game and the penalties imposed by the suggested changes would stop. Though I do believe that there should be more built-in gen slow down so that killers don't have to bring at least 1 Gen slowdown perk if they want to be as efficient as possible in playing.
-"Sorry, but if one side's sense of fun is not wanting the other side to have fun (Early game Facecamping/Tunneling) then I don't believe that view of fun is valid"
I don't tunnel people so they are not having fun. I tunnel people out because when I play frame perfect loopers on survivor sided maps I usually lose 2-3 gens in the first chase. Before anyone says : that's a skill issue be aware it happens to all the big name streamers when they face a good team on a strong map with a non nurse/blight killer.
You need to realize that having gens which are almost impossible to defend via coordination from voice coms makes the game extremely unpleasant as killer. Bully squads are probably part of the reason killers learn to "play hard." Once you get stomped by one one time for playing nice - most people I know immediately don't play nice ever again.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202940#Comment_3202940
this tunneling meme is starting to become funny xD especially making up definition of something that does not exist
Survivors want to remove generators from the game without ever being hooked.
It is hypocritical behavior to want the other side to play in a way that maximizes your fun when you don't consider their fun at all.
Tunneling out generators or survivors is efficient play.
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@Reshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202969#Comment_3202969
I could see that happening, they might also do something like making picking yourself up cost a hook state.
Now that's an idea I have not heard; and while at first it seems like an ok idea you have to remember that Unbreakable has always been a top tier perk even though it is a perk that can only be used once per game.
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@Marigoria said:
Solo players have been asking for Kindred basekit for so long.
Basekit BT was a nice add since tunnelling is a cheap “strategy” with little to no counter play after the DS nerf.
But, as much as I dislike slugging for how boring it can be, I can see it has its uses and sometimes it’s necessary.
The only way I think basekit Unbreakable could be justified is when everyone is slugged for more than 2 minutes because the killer refuses to hook and is just bleeding everyone and wasting everyone’s time.
Basekit Unbreakable every 45 seconds at all time will also buff SWF, which I don’t think it’s necessary tbh.
Will we keep seeing other perks added basekit and STILL no Kindred?
If you want to add QoL improvements to the game add Kindred basekit, it will only help Solo Q and not give an advantage to SWF.
Being able to see everyone's aura base kit would be incredibly powerful. Please stop asking for that.
Likewise free infinite unbreakable is also way too strong to be fair.
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@Zolfo16 said:
Groups of survivors with soul guard, boil over and flip-flop that keep going in maps where they know there are areas where it is impossible to hook them unless it happens you have Agi and IG.
Now they can pick themselves up an infinite amount of times in less than 20 seconds and became basically unkillable. Making them bleed out will be even more complicate.
This is a situation that, if present in the game, we all know will be 100% abused. Boil over was abused like hell, i don't see any reason this will not be the same scenario.
Any solution? Any idea? Am I misunderstanding something?
Don't forget Breakdown when 2-3 people have it.
This change would only make sense if all killers got a "cage of atonement" teleport to hook.
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@fulltonon said:
Now slugging will be fixed, allow killers to choose between activating hook perks or just let them hooked straight away without picking.
It's a really good idea honestly because you cannot camp cages.
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This update would only make sense if it came with the abandoned idea where you could only be fully healed once or twice a game.
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@D4RK1 said:
So I want to start this post out by saying that killing the players is certainly a very important objective to the killer, but at a certain point when the game does not discourage, and in fact ENCOURAGES it, Facecamping and Tunneling, the Devs are essentially saying that not playing the game is a legitimate way of playing the game. I also want to say that I'm a killer main and honestly, I think I dislike playing survivor BECAUSE of the relatively high prospect of facing a facecamper/tunneler.
Now let me get one thing straight, Tunneling and Camping, sometimes even Facecamping, shouldn't be completely stopped as sometimes it is the only objective the killer has that is really productive. Like when the Gen count is low/the exit gates are powered, in which case you can't really blame a killer for camping at this point. However, facecamping and tunneling at the start of a game usually means that one survivor will not get to play the game, and another will likely soon follow. What's worse is that if a team isn't fully coordinated in attempting to assist the camped survivor (which is VERY likely in solo queue), then the Survivors are very unlikely to even escape.
There are several excuses I've heard about combatting this, but honestly I feel like the majority of them are elitist:
- Get Good? I mean sure, but you don't get good right off the bat and when you're trying to get good and a killer who is just average can just facecamp you and get more than triple the BP you do, it kinda makes you not want to play anymore are you also saying that Solo Queue SHOULD expose you to this toxic behavior? If so, then why not just remove solo queue or add VC for Survivors in-game?
- Use anti camping/tunneling perks? Ok, well this assumes that someone has the characters and has them prestiged to actually use perks like Reassurance/Decisive Strike, but that means you're down one perk and the base game is still saying it's ok to just facecamp and tunnel.
- How can you not just pop all 5 gens while 1 person is being camped? I mean i guess from a competition point of view this is a good argument, but I want to point out that 1 person just doesn't get to play the game and that the survivors overall get less blood points as they'll only be receiving Survival and Objective points since chases won't really be a thing and if you get any in boldness, that means you're near the hook that is being camped which probably means you're not doing a gen.
- Well the killer isn't getting enough pips to Stage Up so no problem! Yes, but the Survivors are probably losing Pips for their stages and being new at the game shouldn't mean your progress to Survivor grades should be hindered just on the whim of some random person who decides they don't want the Survivors to have fun.
Here are the changes I propose to combat this relatively big problem:
- Kindred should be baseline and all Survivors should be able to make use of it without requiring a Perk Slot.
- Unhooking should not have a timer, once unhooking a survivor is forced to complete the unhook. Additionally, Survivors cannot be grabbed from an unhook, but can still be interrupted specifically if they are Injured or Deeply Wounded and take a hit (no I do not mean put into the Dying state)
- If a Survivor is hooked, then the aura of the furthest Survivor that has not been hooked at all, is revealed to the killer for 10 seconds.
- If a Survivor dies on hook before any other combination of survivors have a total of 2 hooks (this means it can be another Survivor with 2 hooks as well), then all Survivors gain a 150% Blood Point bonus for the match and the killer takes a 75% Blood Point penalty for the match. Additionally, no matter how the Survivors do, they cannot lose any pips for Stages this match and the Survivor will automatically lose a pip for Killer stages this match. This does not apply if the Survivor on hook attempts to unhook themselves more than Once and/or doesn't succeed at least 3 skill checks during Struggle phase. This effect also does not apply if there are 2 or less Gens required to be completed to power doors, if doors are powered, or if doors are open.
- Each time a killer hooks a Survivor, if the Survivor has the least number of hooks or is tied for the least number of hooks amongst all Survivors, the killer gains a +25% stacking bonus to Blood Points. This bonus should also affect the killer's points towards gaining Killer Stages as this type of behavior should be rewarded.
- If a killer remains within 15 feet of a specific Hooked Survivor (timer resets if the survivor is unhooked then hooked again and each hooked Survivor should have their own timer) for a total of 30 seconds, the killer gains a stacking -25% Blood Point penalty and the hooked survivor gains a stacking +25% Blood Point bonus. Survivors that gain this bonus should then be immune to losing a Survivor Stage pip for the match. A killer that takes this penalty 3 or more times in a match should automatically lose a Killer Stage pip for the match. If the killer is in chase for at least 5 seconds, this timer ceases to count down for all hooked survivors until the chase ends and the time continues to be paused for 5 seconds after the chase ends, though if the chase resumes or a new chase is started during this 5 second interval, the timer continues to be paused. This effect also does not apply if there are 2 or less Gens required to be completed to power doors, if doors are powered, or if doors are open.
Personally I believe that these are all very fair changes as the majority of them do not change the game too much. The aura reading simply makes it so newer players and players not on comms just have a bit of that edge and encourages healthy behavior from survivors (making it easier to unhook and know when to unhook). On the killer side, it assists with specifically not tunneling, but not much else and has no effect once each survivor has been hooked at least once. The majority of my suggestions are mainly aimed at Bloodpoint gain and Stages because honestly that is the most rewarding part of the game when doing well and honestly I just hate the fact that a killer who does minimal work by facecamping can double or triple the number of blood points of survivors who actually play the game well and even escape.
Survivors tunnel generators and break the killer's three gen setup so the killer in turn is forced to tunnel out survivors.
Remove tunneling from both sides or there will be a problem.
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@FizzieSprite said:
Finally a good post.
Nothing you've said in here is wrong. They absolutely should not go through with any of these changes: they're all bad.
These changes will make me finally after 6 years retire as killer. Who will want to play vs try hard SWF when they have +2 amazingly strong perks base kit?
The only thing that might balance this out is if they brought back the idea where you can heal twice per game and never again.
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Limit swf and it will be fine.
Add the rule : no character, item or perk repeats.
Show all perks over each player's head in the lobby.
Show all perks that are not repeated in blue (think Vigil).
Show all perks that are repeated in red (think Franklin's Demise).
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202700#Comment_3202700
Never said it was going to destroy the game. I said it was going to give SWF carte blanche to go ham with never-hook strats, and that there's an element of fun human interactivity that's lost by relegating moris to an endgame cinematic and preventing survivors from taking part in them or letting killers choose amusing spots to mori in.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on the whole. While I can continue this argument, the purpose of this thread was not to debate Unbreakable but rather point out a specific problem with the mori offerings. Overall - I feel that providing feedback is a good thing, and it would be insane of me to expect positive changes in the game's trajectory if I'm not willing to ask for them or explain why I think they're the right move.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202769#Comment_3202769
Why do they have to be useless? That's the easy way out, and frankly I think it's annoying that killers don't have any worthwhile offerings outside map offerings. If moris actually mori-ing people is illegal now, why can't they do something like... Ivory mori blocks exit gates for 5s when opened? Ebony mori prevents hatch from opening? They can do better than this.
"Why do they have to be useless?"
I could imagine a hundred better offerings. How about: press Z on a generator once per game. This generator cannot be completed until one generator is left. If it is completed before that time it will reset to zero and be blocked until one generator needs to be completed.
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@crogers271 said:
Okay, instead of just posting in other people's threads, let me try my own. Maybe there is some issue that I'm missing about the idea of survivors being able to get back up after 45 seconds, but it sounds like a great change. Let's cover fun, theme, strategy, and testing.
1: Fun - Laying on the ground is boring. Now not every element of game can be great all the time, if a bunch of the player base is saying 'this thing right here is awful' you should try and fix it.
2: Theme - A piece of advice I received from a Killer main on how to deal with slugging is do something else that's not DBD. Since then whenever I'm playing DBD I have something else to alt-tab to in case I get slugged/face camped. The idea that a game built around tension and horror is better when a player has a back up activity in case of a tedious strategy indicates that something should be changed.
3: Strategy - Right now a survivor needs to spend roughly 30 second on the ground and then get tapped by a teammate to be up. Under the proposed changes the survivor needs to spend 45 seconds with no tap. In either situation a teammate can come early to speed up the process + be there to heal.
Is this an improvement for survivors, yes, but not quite to the extent people seem to be making it out to be. It does eliminate the strategy of patrolling a downed body in the hopes of catching the person making the rescue, but strategies that hold players hostage should be removed from the game.
4: Testing - Maybe the proposed numbers will unbalance the game. We'll see, the numbers can always be changed. Concerns about how many seconds it should be should not override discussion about the overall concept.
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Basically, this sounds like a great addition. Things that are not fun for the players and kill the theme are bad elements, bad elements should try and be fixed. Good of the devs for looking to improve the game.
How much fun is it going to be when no one wants to play killer anymore?
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This offering is stupid.
Just make it be +5000 points per person you kill or whatever.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201856#Comment_3201856
Increasing regression to that rate would be, if I understand the math correctly, a 9 times increase.
Right now a survivor takes roughly 30 seconds to recover on their own, and a tap from their teammate. The proposed change says 45 seconds to recover, no need for a teammate. That doesn't seem like that tremendous a change. The issue of unbreakable comes up, but it's possible that gets changed after testing and/or people misunderstand what BHVR means (as I've seen a few people suggest).
Its +1 perk slot to the survivor and an ability that is so strong that normally it can only be used once per game.
BT was the only meta perk to get buffed; and not only did they make it base kit they buffed it a second time which is also insane.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3201688#Comment_3201688
"This change is nothing more than trying to placate tantrum throwers who can't stand the 4 min timer."
Being left to lay on the ground for 4 mins is boring. BHVR is trying to remove a boring element from a game that is supposed to be tense and exciting. They are going to test out an idea.
Like, yeah, good.
The problem with a change like this is that is beyond extreme. Imagine if they said ok survivors now get unbreakable base kit but Killer regression speed is equal to the repair speed of the total number of survivors that can potentially work that generator.
That is a theoretical equal exchange.
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@Toaster427 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1UuLGBuZUc
Can some explain what happened here? if this is legit why does nothing at all say this is a feature with wesker's power?
Pinhead has a similar feature when he hits you with a chain near a gate.
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@BottomPolice said:
I really believe that prove thyself isn’t that good unless you’re bringing other gen speed perks/items. The extra 10% is nice but it requires another survivor. Plus ganging up on a gen isn’t a good idea because it’s better to pressure multiple gens especially in the beginning of the game . The only time ganging up on one gen is good is when it’s the last gen
Prove Thyself is one of the most valuable survivor perks because it allows you to remove a 3 gen setup.
DBD is a time race game and seconds matter.
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Honest question:
How do you propose killers pressure 4 survivors?
1) Tunnel someone out with the first three hooks - Nobody wants this.
2) Hook one survivor and slug another - You're deleting this option.
3) Play a different game - Seems like the answer.
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@ihateboons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198036#Comment_3198036
Shattered Hope should be base kit. Shattered Hope wouldn't go in a "Hex slot"... since its not a Hex...
Do people even proofread anymore or do they just face check the keyboard and hit Post Comment? Your % is a hugely staggered blob of nonsense. if all hex perks sucked, no one would ever run them. I believe you just utilize them poorly.
Look at big streamers who get paid to run all hex perk builds. They almost always do better with a build of their choosing - not because it is comfortable and they are used to playing it but because they know what actually works better. Overall Hexes rely almost entirely on RNG for their activation and placement. A good hex in the most open spawn is a dead duck.
Furthermore Hexes are fundamentally weaker vs SWF friends. I played 10 games last night as killer waiting up to 5 mins per game. Most of the games were against 3 man swfs that I could visually see each other on their friends list. I had about 2-3 games that were solo players. I ditched the lobbies where I had no info, was going to face a 4 man twitch streamer or they were swf+ many items.
Survivors have "Shattered Hope" for hexes built in - but imagine if they didn't. Imagine if survivors could not cleanse hexes and had to have a perk that allowed them to cleanse hexes or required a boon to write over them. That would make Ruin incredibly strong even in its current form. Note I am not asking for this I just want to mention it as a thought experiment.
Almost anyone who runs 20-100 games in a row with DH will tell you that 80-90% of the games that hex does absolutely nothing or that that gave up almost all the gens to get one use out of the perk before the survivors left.
With NOED revealing its aura it is now pointless.
Ruin was nerfed to oblivion - not that it has been good for anything but noob stomping for a long time.
Huntres Lullaby is a noob stomper. People who are hitting multiple hyperfocus checks laugh at this perk.
You could use crowd control or you could use Bamboozle and no one can ever take that away from you.
The Third Seal is overal a weak perk that might work against solo players but does nothing vs a SWF. It is largely reserved for meme builds or very niche killer setups.
About the only hex that is really nasty is Blood Favour. Good survivors will look for it immediately so you can only use it on killers that can actually protect it (like demo + killer instinct portals) or you need to risk losing it and bring Undying.
Hex Retribution is a perk that really only works in a full perk build and while it can be good for getting information there is no telling when you get that information -meaning it will often come at the wrong time. This perk really only shines in a full hex perk build in which case you are telegraphing to the survivors to keep looking for totems.
Haunted Ground +Retribution is a good combo assuming they don't get the Retribution first or it comes during the wrong time and you can't even really use the expose because the person you are chasing is already hurt.
Another favorite is Pentimento+Hex Plaything. A good SWF is going to have a boon player and they will boon cleanse all your totems completely ruining your combo. Some of the Strongest SWFs I have lost against had two boon players. On its own Plaything does almost nothing vs a SWF but will frustrate solo players to a small degree.
Needing two perks to make one perk work is pretty trash in my book when you consider Survivors do not even need a protection perk to protect boons nor a specialized perk to remove Hexes.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198434#Comment_3198434
I'd actually not have luck as a mechanic at all :) but that's just my personal opinion, I'd rather things more tangible and not left to chance. Whilst I am a fan of map RNG, I'm not a massive fan of things being too random in a game such as DbD where repetitiveness is part of the game.
(going to just add in here, please remember these are my personal opinions - feel the need to add that given that people will jump on what I say).
Too much RNG in either direction ruins the game. Did you see Otz's video where groaning storehouse only had 5 pallets?
On the issue of Luck I really like Choy's idea where you can't even attempt to escape from the hook unless everyone is down or hooked unless you have the slippery meat perk.
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196851#Comment_3196851
Considering your reaction to losing an argument, I'm informing you that I'll be permanently ignoring your comments from now on on these forums.
-"Considering your reaction to losing an argument"
I'm sure you think you made great points and defeated me on every issue.
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3198053#Comment_3198053
Nobody is disputing that Pop is weaker than it was, my point is simply that it still offers enough regression to be worth using even at 10-15 seconds per kick instead of 20.
But that's not how the game works with pop having a 45 second window. You're going to find gens that are 20% done and your choice is use pop or don't use the perk. Kicking a 20% generator with pop is going to take an extra 3.6 seconds off the generator. Kicking a 40% generator with pop is going to take an extra 7.2 seconds off a generator.
The problem is that two people on a generator with Prove, HF, or some kind of bonus (like toolbox) can finish that generator in about 40 seconds. The new meta is to double team the gens. What magical fairy land you must live in where you get 10-15 second regression per kick.
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I played a game on RPD tongiht as nemesis where I had no hooks and the surviovrs only needed 2 gens to win. Unfortunately almost all the vaccines were gone, two people were hurt and many of the pallets were gone.
Most importantly I had 4 gens very close to the main room so as soon as I hooked one person it was just a constant trade as I had been slowly building up stacks of STBFL. They managed to finish one of the side gens but I still had an ironclad 3 gen when they all died.
The reality is that at high levels of play you will lose if you don't tunnel someone out. Sometimes I have to decide if I want to keep a 3 gen or tunnel someone out.
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@dugman said:
Pop is still a good perk, you just have to try and not waste it on gens that aren't at least 50% done.
Coincidentally Otz just posted a sample game with Pop on Youtube today talking about some possible combos with it and showing roughly how much regression it offered (I think he got about 8-10 uses at 10-15 seconds each.) Pop is the first game in the video, the second game he uses Ruin and Surveillance. (He also admits Ruin isn't as good as Pop in the video but does think it still has some traction when you pair it with Surveillance and additional slowdown. I'm not a fan of the current Ruin personally but I do agree with him that Pop is still a good perk that's being overlooked by some people.)
I used to regularly pop gens at 20% so they would go down to zero to help secure a three gen. Pop can no longer do this so it lost most of its appeal. I was regularly kicking gens with Pop before the patch to make gens take 120-180 seconds longer overall. There's no way you can get that kind of value anymore with the current skill over and over and over again like you could with the old Pop.
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@ihateboons said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197545#Comment_3197545
Id rather give killer's a Hex slot. So they can run 5 hex perks.. which wouldn't be ideal for a lot of situations.. but... why not? Plus, it opens room for a LOT of builds, which as a solo player i could still handle. What i have the biggest issue with is tunneling and camping. NOED is a joke and rarely am I worried about it in the slightest because i've typically done 2-3 totems.
i've spent several hundred hours watching streams recently of small and large content creators streaming, since my GPU ######### the bed and ive spent some time shopping around and waiting for it to ship and i have to say, VS a competent SWF, killers have the same win rate as over all survivors. 39%. Their saving grace is Solo players take up a huge majority of the queue.
I'm no longer bitching about real balance because the difference between SWF and Solo™ is sheer whiplash. I've changed gears and wish them only to fix the cheater issue we have atm. but I honestly think Killer's should have a dedicated Hex slot.
Hex perks suck. The only way a "hex slot" would ever be viable is if you could run Shattered Hope in that slot to counter boons. And then people would basically stop bringing boons because they would be as useless as 99% of the hex perks.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197752#Comment_3197752
Up the Ante has never been patched. Are you thinking of a different perk?
Up the Ante does not stack anymore. It does not work the same way anymore.
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197769#Comment_3197769
Luck never influenced chest drops. The only change the devs ever made to Luck was it used to help open bear traps.
That's what they said but that's simply not possible considering the rate at which we got purple items using that perk when compared to control tests with no loot/luck perks.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197752#Comment_3197752
Up the Ante has never been a good perk literally what.
Luck also has no effect on items recovered in trials so I see no way it would allow people to farm items.
"Luck also has no effect on items recovered in trials"
My friends were able to get an average of 1.4 purple items out of chests in 10 games in a row using this strategy. UtA no longer stacks and luck no longer affects chest loot. Empiricall evidence rather solidly proves that once upon a time Luck did influence chest drops.
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@ByeByeQ said:
A flat 15% for just hooking someone on a scourge hook is already the best regression perk in the game that doesn't require kicking. Getting a scream as well that sets off both Dead Man's Switch and Merciless Storm is just a ghastly garnish making already strong perks into an overpowered combo.
Here's how I'd love to see Pain Resonance:
- Lose the scream altogether.
- Make it 10% regression.
- Bring back the notification from before 6.1.0.
This would make Pain Resonance only a decent regression perk but a better information perk.
Also it would give killers a target so they leave the hook. It would be better for the game.
They already nerfed this perk. You basically need an info perk to know which generator to go to make use of it.
Also this is the only instant regression perk that you only have a small chance of using when you hook someone due to the RNG of white hooks - unless you also bring Agitation or Monstrous Shrine and hang out by the basement. So you need one perk for info of which gen you plan to interrupt and one perk to make sure you get to a white hook. That's already very limited.
Imagine if Dead hard said: you can only use DH if within 10m of an unfinished generator. That would give you an idea of how limiting Pain Resonance is on its own.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3197539#Comment_3197539
There's nothing wrong with strategic perks, it's just that Zanshin Tactics is not an effective one for killers.
What makes this perk worse is that a good killer already basically has this perk through good game sense. You will likely remember which pallets you have broken on certain map areas.
A really simple solution for this perk would be to change it's primary function. While in a chase a survivor that runs through a pallet automatically forces it to drop. Make this happen once every 80 seconds. As a bonus let the killer see the auras of vaults/windows as it does now.
@Akumakaji said:
I remember when we discussed this in an earlier thread quite some time ago.
Well, I would like an effect like this, but obviously balance is a very tricky thing with something like this. Here is some ideas:
- one use on tier 2, two uses on tier 3
- 2min cooldown between uses.
- can't destroy God palettes OR destroying a God palette uses up both charges
- with the power of the third eye, raise up a destroyed palette as a ghostly figment
-"can't destroy God palettes OR destroying a God palette uses up both charges"
That would make the effect worthless.
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Up the Ante used to be busted so it got the nerf hammer. Once upon a time you could have 4 people run that perk and everyone got +9% luck.
Since ranks completely reset every month on the 13th you had easy games for about 1-2 weeks where you could farm all the items you needed for the rest of the month.
In short : it was busted.
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What we need is to stop having free perks in the shrine.
Jake,Dwight, Nea,Meg, David and all the "free" killer perks should not be clogging up space in the shrine. You can unlock them with 1M BP.
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Needs a nerf honestly. It should not be something that can be spammed.
One use per hook state per target survivor per team is fine.
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@ihateboons said:
Oof.. that 39% Escape Rate will drop to under 20% REAL fast with 80% of these perks being side slotted.
You are literally asking people who play Survivor to just Uninstall the game lol
Edit: Shattered Hope is the only one that needs to be Base Kit, not even a Side Perk and Spies would be constant Notification spam which will irk the absolute HELL out of a lot of people
-"Shattered Hope is the only one that needs to be Base Kit, not even a Side Perk"
The fact that the devs made this a perk is insulting. The killer should have the option when kicking a boon to either snuff it (if they want to use the bones for say noed) or to remove that dull totem forever by default. But likewise the killer should be able to relight any hex on a dull totem by interacting with it.
Or killer should be able to remove boons forever with a single interaction because hexes likewise die forever.
The only time killer really feels "lacking" in the perk department is when facing against SWFs. You get too much info for free when you are in a SWF.
I think killer would be fine with a "5th perk" slot but it is limited to one of the killer's natural three perks. So every Nemesis would likely be playing with Lethal, every LF would be using BBQ, Every hag would have Ruin, etc.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196851#Comment_3196851
So 33% of single gen or it's "tunneling". Ok. Let's apply same rules. You can chase 1 survivor for 33% of one gen = 30s or it's tunneling and so you need to swap target.
Oh bullshit and that is not tunneling? Well doing 33% gens is also not tunneling. You can chase single survivor for 15 minutes for all I care and I still would not call that tunneling. Same way as there is no "leave unfinished objective just so" tunneling.
Tunel was and always will be ignoring everyone and everything else in a match just to rehook person that just got out of hook. If you leave him time to hide/heal and find him again, people will not call it tunneling (if you don't drop actual more favorable chase just to get already hooked person). Your definition is flawed on so many levels.
-"Your definition is flawed on so many levels."
Tunneling is not defined by the game. It's a made up term by people who don't like when the killer plays efficiently. Survivors play most efficiently by tunneling out generators by finishing them. A killer can hook one person three times to eliminate them and reduce gen completion potential by 25% or he can hook three people one time and have nothing.
Asking the killer not to tunnel when you are tunneling out the generators is quite silly. You could be getting all the gens to 33% so you're not tunneling his gens. But instead you want to finish your objective as fast as possible. Newsflash : the killer wants the same thing.
If we remove tunneling from the game we need to remove generator tunneling so that the killer does not feel the need to tunnel because survivors finished two generators before the first chase (and in so doing removed his three gen setup).
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@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195842#Comment_3195842
"About a week or two ago I saw Otz play a game on Lerys vs a SWF. He got his first chase after two gens were done. That person went down near the basement. They pretended to give otz a chase so he never left the basement and essentially he camped that person to death at the top of basement entrance. It wasn't a face camp but you can be sure it was a camp. Otz tunnels all the time when he is on a streak he doesn't want to lose."
-It's only your word though, again, never saw him camp, if you show a video where he does, I can only admit he might have done it once or twice (it happens to the best of us to get mad at someone in a game), but it's definitely not one of his habits.
Otz did a no damage run in dark Souls 2, bruh, he has the skills to get 4 kills without tunneling.
"So if the killer tunnels one person out before he loses any generators does that means he just played better? It's alright to say yes (by the way this is sarcastic)."
-It's litterally impossible not to get 4 kills when you tunnel, so using that strategy allows for a 100% guaranteed 4 kills. Not really what I'd call "playing better".
"The level of favoritism you display towards the survivor here is unreal. How about if survivors don't touch the 3 gen I want to keep for the entire game then I won't tunnel? Right - see as a survivor your natural instinct is to create the opposite of a 3 gen : what my friend calls a "Y gen"."
-Asking the killers not to cheat is "favoritism for survivors", uh? Litterally, it's exactly as if I was calling someone out for cheating and you were replying "BuT SuRvIvOrS ArE DoInG GeNs tHaTs OnLy fAiR".
Tunneling is a form of legal cheating, because it's a game design flaw that is currently being worked on and that 100% guarantees getting 4 kills.
"I hate to break it to you but the devs have said tunneling camping and slugging are valid tactics. They have literally asked on stream to stop reporting those things."
-They have absolutely never said it was valid, they said they were working on removing those strategies and that reporting them would not result in a ban, since it's their own fault for not having fixed it.
Which makes sense. I do report tunnelers and facecampers, I KNOW it can not possibly result in a ban, but it sends the message to behavior that whatever fix they're working on, it's urgent.
I think it's funny how different corporations handle different problems. While Respawn are banning tea baggers, while having built in functionalities that allow for in game bragging, you have bhvr that says it's okay to litterally ruin games on purpose.
"This set of instructions is ridiculous. But it is essentially what survivors are asking killers to do. Hook each player once. Then hook each player twice."
-What a complete hypocrite.
My set of instruction is "don't tunnel, don't specifically remove one person from the game, ignoring other survivors, abusing the DS nerf, and ensuring survivors can't possibly escape no matter how terrible you are at the game".
Your set of instruction is "survivors should go afk and just stop doing anything".
It's absolutely not the same thing, you're litterally telling me that the equivalent of the killer not ignoring all survivors but one is the same thing as survivors going afk and not working on generators at all.
"And this too is ridiculous to ask of survivors. So I start every game as if I will get 100,000$ for the win. My objective is to tunnel one person out as fast as possible while holding a 3 gen setup."
-What you don't understand is that the changes we are asking (DS baseline with 5 seconds, nerfs to killers if one survivor is killer and all others are P0, etc...) are made so that if you were to play a game and win 100k if you get at least 3 kills, then what should happen is that your most optimal strategy should be not to tunnel.
That's what behavior tried to do with the Off The Record change, for exemple.
Right now, because of behavior's lack of competence, this isn't what is happening. So, if you tunnel, it's not that you're breaking some kind of game rule, you're not getting banned.
You're just a terrible human being.
-"Tunneling is a form of legal cheating, because it's a game design flaw that is currently being worked on and that 100% guarantees getting 4 kills."
It's nothing personal but you are taking it to that level. Tunneling out gens or tunneling out survivors is efficient play. Make both sides stop.
The biggest advantage you can have in DBD is to play in a SWF. You instantly get more information that solo queue players would have to use all their perk slots for but you can bring all action perks. Communication allows for unreal levels of coordination that this game was not balanced around.
-"My set of instruction is "don't tunnel, don't specifically remove one person from the game, ignoring other survivors, abusing the DS nerf"
And what if I said : my set of instructions includes let a generator fully regress when I kick it if it is part of my 3 gen? I find the rules you want to impose ridiculous so I respond with some that hope you realize you are being unreasonable.
We aren't playing football; there isn't a 10 yard penalty for roughing the unhooker.
-"we are asking (DS baseline with 5 seconds"
DS was a guarantee with 5 seconds but it is a reward you earn with 3 second duration stun. If you make a good play then the DS gets you a new chase. The killer already has enough opportunities to lose a hook. You want the game to be way too favorable for the survivors.
-"if you tunnel, You're just a terrible human being."
We are playing a game where if I finish my goals then your goals are hindered. I'm not some robot playing killer for your amusement. One of the causes for me to play hard on survivors is when I play against a bully SWF squad. Most killers say the same thing; they get conditioned by SWAT SWF teams so they start playing every match as hard as possible. If they are winning easily then they might let up.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196150#Comment_3196150
Yes. Sure. It does nothing. And 49 into 61 is devs lying to us. Obviously bt basekit makes it 12% more likely to loose...
If we take away all the 10% changes and give back the pre nerf gen regression perks then killer would be stronger than it is right now vs SWFs and slightly weaker vs solo players. You can keep the ruin nerf because that was a noob stomper.
That would be better for the game.
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@Risky12 said:
We keep having all these updates that discouraged tunneling and buffs so survivors can make it a tiny distance so they don't die right away after a unhook.
Despite all these anti tunnel changes, it had gotten MUCH worse. Killers aren't even playing the game anymore they are just tunneling off hook or camping one survivor at a time and making it miserable for everyone with unfun gameplay.
I can think of one change to hurt the people that do stupid crap like this WITHOUT good reason.
BP reduction
Now hear me out, the system would work like this.
Upon hooking the survivor the survivor gains the distaste status affect. This status effect will go away after another survivor gets hit AFTER the survivor on the hook has been unhooked.
The penalty of hitting the unhooked survivor with the status effect will give no bp reward but the penalty will go down after each gen is done.
5 gens-100%
4 gens-80%
3 gens-60%
2 gens-40%
1 gens- 20%
Exit gates powered-0%
This would promote killers to switch targets and give everyone a chance to have fun.
I'm open to suggestions
-"Killers aren't even playing the game anymore they are just tunneling off hook or camping one survivor at a time and making it miserable for everyone with unfun gameplay."
Why are killers doing this? Because survivors can easily rush 2 generators before they get a single hook. This has a high chance to break any three gens and then the only way the killer can win is to pressure one person out.
Tunneling is a two way street. Survivors tunnel the gens so the killer has to tunnel someone out to "catch up".
Not giving killers something like base kit corrupt is part of the reason killers are being forced to rush someone out of the game.
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Predator could be really easy to fix.
1) Have directional scratch marks / make them closer (opposite of lightweight and counters it).
2) Give the killer undetectable if you are following scratches while not in a chase.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195883#Comment_3195883
About the queue times: My queues became instant for survivor at night (10min before). But the mates became worse.
Survivor queue time is a little faster but again - my killer times basically increased by +3 minutes.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3196079#Comment_3196079
well swf did not change. its still same. just that soloq is the same as swf at that point if you can see everyone's aura's. I don't think there would be much of a difference playing soloq over SWF. that is just my opinion. Most of killer though in my opinion would get gen-rushed similar to strong SWF with high escape streaks without killer having very much chase gameplay in my opinion.
Example: give killer +4 perks if the game they are playing features SWF. These perks are chosen ahead of time and only activate "in case of SWF".
killer do not need more perks. they need functional power that provides value when you use it correctly and is versatile. Its just that they won't make killer power any good if your constantly dying as survivor.
"well swf did not change. its still same"
SWF did change by proxy. Instant regression hurt SWF and solo queue alike. Perks like Overcharge and CoB do nothing vs a swf. Your friend tells you I got chased of mid gen, go finish it while I get chased.
Popping a gen 3-5 times in a game happened all the time before. Overcharge/CoB are just "meh" by comparison.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195739#Comment_3195739
Not one. They got several half petks. Half brutal strength, 2 save the best stacks, some old thana stacks AND to top it off reduced survivor sprint. Killers got way more then just 1 basekit BT into their basekit
Most of the time that extra 10% you get from killer does nothing because it is non focused.What do you get with 1/2 Brutal? Nothing. Why? Because there are too many pallets/vaults close together. Truetaent made a video where he showcased more than 120% faster pallet breaking and it did absolutely nothing due to pallet density.
The survivor sprint again doesn't matter most of the time because there are too many pallets/vaults.
BT base kit gives you something you will use over and over again every game.
Imagine if we took away BT base kit and instead gave survivor: 20% faster totem cleansing, 20% faster chest opening, and 10% faster gate opening when not in the killer's radius (but no bonus inside the killer's radius). And we gave survivor 10% faster healing when there are no other bonuses active to healing. That's a nice mix of bonuses right? Wrong. It's time you don't need saved. That's exactly what killers got.
The one exception here is the save the best stacks as that is actually useful because now you can have "10 stack" of save when playing Nemesis or Demo.