DBDVulture
DBDVulture
About
- Username
- DBDVulture
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195744#Comment_3195744
No. Relatively speaking - True is just bad killer, that is being carried by hard camp/tunnel. But you being his fan explains a lot.
Otz is absolutely better general killer. But there are even better specialist killers - like e.g. spookyloops is much better huntress then otz.
I never said I was his fan. I think you have a biased opinion. I've watched almost all of the big killer main streamers. I usually don't watch true play specifically. I watch people who are entertaining or have the potential to teach me something.
If you do not like tunneling then you can blame Otz for steering the game in the direction that kills are better than hooks. True like him or not wanted the game to focus on how many hooks did you get. When he focused on trying to get 8+ hooks per game it made him look like a worse killer. They both have a very high hour count and understand the game well.
I can play Nemesis better than both of them but that's basically the only killer I play when I play killer and they play the whole roster. Otz for example often goes for very risky tentacle hits that rarely land (often including multiple hits out of a window). One of the last times I saw true play I saw him miss a whip against a survivor that was looping a main wall building. The survivor juked out at the last second so the whip didn't land and he was not sure why that missed. If you move your whip outside to in then there is no room for the survivor to dodge.
Are they bad at Nemesis? No - but they lack the Nuance and dedication to playing one killer all the time.
If you compare the two Otz is much worse at Huntress and slightly worse as Blight. I have not seen either really play Nurse in a long time so I can't comment there. Both play Spirit well. We could go down the entire list but its a moot point. Since I did mention it previously Otz is the worse Nemesis of the two.
If you watch both regularly you will notice that they are basically in the same time zone but one of them ends their show before noon my time and one often streams until 6pm (and that used to be later). What does that mean? When you are playing the game matters tremendously. If you log in to play killer at 4am during the week you are not going to face off against many swf at all. But if you play killer past midnight until about 2 am that is all you will see : ultra try hard swfs.
I doubt you are good enough to really say you are better than either at DBD (except at one specific killer) so saying one of them is bad makes you look bad. They're getting paid to play video games all day and you are not.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195700#Comment_3195700
"Dark Theory is designed for the top 1% of players who can loop frame perfectly - not the average joe. DBD is a frame counting game."
Now I am 100% sure you have less then 5hrs on survivor. Frame counting? Really? Please try to play some survivor for a change. PLEASE!
Desynch in this game is THE king. You could be 6m away from killer when vaulting the same fast vault and not get it, or you could be 2m and barely get it. The difference is not in your hands. You don't even know it as survivor. You can maybe measure it by predroping and checking reaction. But some killers have flactuating ping so perfectly exactly same situation can end up in predrop where killer does not get stun, or killer landing hit on you and then getting stunned.
One of your many tasks as survivor is to find out killer's ping. Or not bother at all and just predrop everything with windows of opportunity + pray there is enough pallets so everyone else can genrush in time.
-"Frame counting? Really? Please try to play some survivor for a change"
Any time you loop a killer around a vault or pallet you are watching where they are in relation to you. You are probably not consciously thinking about it but you are X number of steps ahead of the killer. Another way to think about that is how many frames ahead ( if we were watching a replay of the game).
Maybe you need better internet because most of the games I play ping is not an issue for either side.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195875#Comment_3195875
I do not think swf needs to be nerfed. its more killer need to be buffed, but issue with making killer stronger is that soloq already has an average of 39% kill-rate with most of the killer powers being not that amazing. If you make all killers have the opportunity to beat strong man 4 swf, the kill-rate for soloq would be like 20% escape rate.
that is not balanced for soloq on top of the annoying self-suicides that people do on hook in protest of "killer favored patch". First you need make soloq closer to SWF before you make killers stronger so they have at least equal opportunity to escape like giving survivors auto global bond like what they have when a survivor is slugged on the floor.
-"I do not think swf needs to be nerfed. its more killer need to be buffed"
Buff Killers and buff solo queue players so that "SWF is effectively nerfed" because everyone else got better.
Given the choice you would always play SWF over solo queue. They need to be an even choice where they have different but equal opportunities.
Example: give killer +4 perks if the game they are playing features SWF. These perks are chosen ahead of time and only activate "in case of SWF".
Meanwhile give solo queue players +4 information perks that activate only if they are in a game that features SWF. Information perks include : Bond, Emathy, Kindred, Rookie Spirit, Alert, etc (but obviously not dead hard or adrenaline).
Now you get 8 perks if you are in a game vs SWF and the killer gets 8 perks if they are in a game vs SWF and the SWF team only gets 4 perks each.
-
@Marius1234456918 said:
The 69% die rate is because in 7 out of 10 matches 1 mate die on first hook in the first 2min and game is over after that. I even think some survivors do that on purpose just do lower these numbers in order to get survivors some buffs they dont really need. Best example was the 10sec base kit bt... Main survivors are just build differnt haha
"I even think some survivors do that on purpose just do lower these numbers in order to get survivors some buffs they dont really need."
For the first week or two after the patch survivors were throwing games like crazy regardless of which side I was playing.
Also the "-2:40" time for killer queue is nothing short of a lie. Before the patch my queue times were instant. After the patch my queue times went up by an average of 3 minutes.
-
@DEMONANCE said:
couldn't read after "killer being balanced around 4 man swf"
wake me up in the 10th anniversary when something close to that might actually be true lol.
how can you even look at most of the killers we have + the maps and think killers have any chance against swfs.
Exactly. If you're playing clown and do not have pinky finger on a large/safe map you just automatically lost if you are playing against a SWF. Might as well afk in the corner and make sure nobody can pip?
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194990#Comment_3194990
Easy. 61%. Nothing more to add here
That number would be very different if we removed all the games where people D/C or killed themself on the hook.
People were throwing games when the patch came out to make the numbers look worse.
ALso the devs stated that killer queue times went down by 2:40. I find that my queue times are +2:40 considering that before the 6.1 patch my queue times as killer were almost always instant. Now I wait 3-6 minutes for a game with killer.
Last night there was a 100% killer boost and games were still taking about 2-5 minutes to give me a lobby.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194945#Comment_3194945
they break 95% of killer roast because 95% of roaster is weak because 95% of roaster is balanced around solo-q.
Balance 95% of roaster around 4 man strong SWF and they'll stop breaking 95% of the roaster.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195461#Comment_3195461
I think this game could really benefit from a "Search for Party" function.
Strangers do not want to talk to other strangers. Your only playing a single match of DBD together. Making everyone SWF does not make everyone a good coordinated SWF if their no communication. One advantage of SWF is that you get to play with them a multiple times and you know who your playing with.
With strangers, you need build team synergy in 1 game. aura-reading perks enables synergy to occur without needing any talking. Icons are enable better synergy. both these are not synergy itself. you need to learn how to use information to make correct plays. auto kindred is not auto-win. swf win more often because they are able to always make the most optimal correct play where as solo doesn't know what correct play to make because there is no information to make the correct play thus you end up making a lot of mistakes in solo without knowing it.
"They break 95% of killer roast because 95% of roaster is weak because 95% of roaster is balanced around solo-q"
Then give killer an option to only play solo queue when not playing Blight/Nurse. The simple truth is that playing alone or with friends shouldn't break the game but it does. SWF needs to get nerfed but can never be nerfed because the community would crucify the developers.
"Strangers do not want to talk to other strangers."
People with a common interest - such as a video game they both love and understand can easily become fast friends.
-
When DBD moved to server hosting years ago instead of Peer to peer they had they opportunity to incorporate server side checks. Imagine for example if the server looked at someone in a chase that moved faster than normal. It could check for : damage hits, sprint burst, break out, dark theory, etc. If none of those checks are "true" then the server could flag the account. If this account gets flagged for similar events in X period of time then it gets suspended or banned automatically.
It would have been an easy way to stop 95% of the cheating. But they didn't do that because that would have cost more money. You could have similar checks on generators, hook sabotages, healing, and every time based event. The game would know that you don't have 4 stacks of botany knowledge so your heal speed of 1 second is not legit. You wouldn't even necessarily know that you got flagged as it would be an invisible event that the game server logged.
Locks keep honest people out not dedicated thieves. EAC is one of the weakest "protection services" I have ever seen. Every game protected by EAC is always full of cheaters because that service is essentially not good. EAC may as well be a padlock you got from the dollar store.
-
@OpalescentHare said:
I keep getting in matches where the killer aims for a 3-gen... And that's it. They will hit people off gens, but will not commit to chases. They will down survivors, but not hook them. They just protect their 3-gen for over an hour. At that point people either actively refuse to be picked up so that they can bleed out and leave, DC, or meme around with each other. Because there is no way to progress the match due to how the killer is refusing to do anything that allows progress for either side.
This is becoming a semi-regular occurrence. Having it every rare now and again is frustrating, but not at all ruining the game as a whole for me. But the past couple of weeks it has happened on the daily. No one should have to DC to get out of a match that the killer refuses to hook or chase survivors in, or hold down the running button to avoid recovery just to get out of a match. At that point, protecting a gen should be holding the game hostage since they are pressuring gens to no end beyond bleeding out survivors for 4 minutes each at best.
"I keep getting in matches where the killer aims for a 3-gen... And that's it. "
"They just protect their 3-gen for over an hour"
And why is this a problem? You know what a 3 gen is so I assume you know how valuable it is to a killer. Why should they give it up?
If every game you play ends up being a 3 gen then maybe you need to stop and take a minute to look at each map and where to finish gens first. Also you probably need to be more aggressive. If the killer has a 3 gen and everyone runs to the far side of the map to heal then that gives the killer time to win.
Maybe the killer in your game is asking why don't the survivors do all the totems before trying to finish any generators. Why don't they loot all the chests first too.
You are asking for an unreasonable solution to a problem that you might in part be causing.
-
@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195725#Comment_3195725
"The rule you are setting here by definition then means that Otz has no skill as a 9000 hour player. Every time I tune in to watch his killer stream after a few games he has one tough match where he has to camp tunnel and slug to win."
-I do watch Otz and I've never seen him tunnel. Camp only in an endgame situation, I've never seen otz hook one survivor at 5 gens then just facecamp him for 5 minutes. Otz would not be a famous streamer if he did that, nobody wants to watch Meg's crotch for 5 minutes. I think.
"Generators are the [survivor?]'s objective. Removing them too fast reduces the killer's enjoyment of the game - but almost nobody thinks about that"
-Losing in a game is frustrating, but even if no one wants to admit it in the moment, we do actually enjoy our time regardless of our final score. We wouldn't play a game that we only enjoy about 50% of the time. You described a situation where the killer loses the game. it happens. But if the survivors just played better, it's alright.
I'd much rather have a fair game that I lost, rather than spend a game chasing toxic tea bagger/spam clickers, even if I end up with 3 kills, and the 4th escapes while still being toxic. It's still a win, but it's not enjoyable.
Believe it or not but people around here enjoy the game. it's not perfect. it has tons of flaws. But it's enjoyable. You don't need to get 4k to have enjoyed the game.
"We could apply your tunneling rule to survivors too. Play a game (non KYF) where you get 5 generators to 33% before ever trying to get one gen to 66%. If you have one gen below threshold you can't work on any generator past 33% or 66%. You are allowed to get multiple generators to 33-66-99% so that you are not held up by one generator.
You have never even for a moment considered playing survivor like that. It's ridiculous that you decide the killer should play in an inefficient manner while survivors should play to complete their objective as fast as possible."
-That's where you comparison doesn't work. We're not asking killers to deliberately let survivors win, we are asking killers to respect the humans beings they are facing, and to refrein from using a cheap strategy that is, technically, a reportable offense (officially, it's not, but in the reports, you can see "abusing a gameplay flaw to get a competitive advantage", which is what tunneling is).
Tunneling is officially something that the developpers are working to remove from the game, which is entirely logical, in an asymetrical game, you HAVE to design a game mechanics that prevents the solo player to easily remove one opponent from the game, leading to a snowball situation.
Now the developpers are doing are VERY poor job at it. Litterally they've been working 6 years on it and we went back when they deleted Decisive Strike. With DS being baseline, with 5 seconds duration, it's possible we are finally back in the right direction, and considerint it's the most requested change, it's probably going to happen in the future. overall, the game is going to be more and more agressive against tunneling. If you can't adapt, you'll have to stop playing killer.
Main point is: Your pityful comparison assumes working on gens separately is the same thing as making the game miserable for one opponent.
And for the 999999th time: HAVING 3 GENS AT 33% IS LITTERALLY THE MOST OPTIMAL STRATEGY THERE IS IF YOU WANT TO ESCAPE. I don't know why you can't understand that but YES, having a lot of gens working at the same time is litterally GOOD. It's better to have gens slowly build up and popping at the same time than having one gen pop early and then let the killer snowball from there.
YES, YOU SHOULD 100% HAVE 3 GENS AT 33%. IT'S GOOD.
"-I do watch Otz and I've never seen him tunnel. Camp only in an endgame situation"
About a week or two ago I saw Otz play a game on Lerys vs a SWF. He got his first chase after two gens were done. That person went down near the basement. They pretended to give otz a chase so he never left the basement and essentially he camped that person to death at the top of basement entrance. It wasn't a face camp but you can be sure it was a camp. Otz tunnels all the time when he is on a streak he doesn't want to lose.
"You described a situation where the killer loses the game. it happens. But if the survivors just played better, it's alright."
So if the killer tunnels one person out before he loses any generators does that means he just played better? It's alright to say yes (by the way this is sarcastic).
"That's where you comparison doesn't work. We're not asking killers to deliberately let survivors win, we are asking killers to respect the humans beings they are facing"
The level of favoritism you display towards the survivor here is unreal. How about if survivors don't touch the 3 gen I want to keep for the entire game then I won't tunnel? Right - see as a survivor your natural instinct is to create the opposite of a 3 gen : what my friend calls a "Y gen".
"you HAVE to design a game mechanics that prevents the solo player to easily remove one opponent from the game, leading to a snowball situation."
Having a "Y" gen setup allows the survivors to run away from the game. Are they going to shrink all the maps? Are they going to make all the gens closer together? You can't just remove tunneling unless you remove the idea from both sides.
-"refrein from using a cheap strategy that is, technically, a reportable offense (officially, it's not"
I hate to break it to you but the devs have said tunneling camping and slugging are valid tactics. They have literally asked on stream to stop reporting those things.
"HAVING 3 GENS AT 33% IS LITTERALLY THE MOST OPTIMAL STRATEGY THERE IS IF YOU WANT TO ESCAPE"
You don't understand what I am suggesting.
- Load into a map.
- Work 5-7 generators to 33%
- Stop work on any generator past 33% at any time than 5 generatros are under 33% progress. If 5 gens are past 33% progress go to #4.
- Work 5-7 generators to 66%. Stop working on any generator past 33% if we lose the "33% threshold". If 5 gens are past 66% progress go to step #5.
- Work 5-7 generators to 99%. Stop working on any generator past 66% if we lose the 33% or 66% threshold. If 5 gens are at 99% go to step 6.
- Finish 5 generators at 99%. If there are no longer 5 generators at 99% go back to the previous necessary step. Immediately stop repairing generators.
This set of instructions is ridiculous. But it is essentially what survivors are asking killers to do. Hook each player once. Then hook each player twice.
In order for me to play like that I need people to:
1) not loop well
2) Always throw the pallet on the first loop (different from a pre-drop)
3) never try to break three gens.
4) use map offerings that the killer wants to play on
5) don't bring items
6) play solo queue as balance intended without voice coms.
And this too is ridiculous to ask of survivors. So I start every game as if I will get 100,000$ for the win. My objective is to tunnel one person out as fast as possible while holding a 3 gen setup.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192453#Comment_3192453
You clearly play one side only. That is the reason for your posts. Calling true good killer (in same sentence as otz - and those 2 are miles apart) is dead giveaway.
Truetalent faces much more difficult survivors during most of his stream than Otz. True takes a lot more paid viewer builds and when he plays poorly with someone else's build gets criticized. Let's see how you play a hag game with random BS perks that will not help you. He understands the game and always has little teaching tidbits in his show (which Otz does far less often).
They are both very skilled and when they play "full tilt" on strong killers they can both flatten most people they play against.
-
@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194305#Comment_3194305
Since you failed to address all of the other points I made in that comment I shall have to assume that is because you now agree and find them to be true.
As far as Survivor's committing time to progressed gens, that is an action that has costs and benefits. As Killer you gain for more value when the Survivor falls prey to the "sunk cost fallacy", and tries to go back on the gen you already kicked. Now they are in a disadvantageous position and must commit to dropping a nearby pallet to slow you down or give up a free hit. You can then kick the gen again and start back where you were before with the advantage of a damage state on the Survivor or environment's limited resources. Also if they go back again then they can either give another free hit into a down, or your chase with another Survivor can proc Eruption on them, making them waste a potential ~34 gen seconds.
A Killer committing to hard chase off of hook or select out of 2 Survivors on a gen the Survivor who was hooked before has no such risks, and only has rewards. Even if the Killer immediately goes for the unhooked Survivor, they can hear out OTR or not so they can know whether to swing early or count to 11.
As far as incentive to hook unique Survivors I thought of a solution in my thread series "DBD Problems and Potential Fixes", specifically "5/10 Spreading the Pain VS Killing Early", which would basically give a diminished Grim Embrace basekit that can proc twice. Overall though I think the 6.1.0 changes have swung a bit too far in Killer's favor, and giving your suggestion of more carrot would be unwise. At this point I think the stick should be applied. I would go as far as to reverse your suggestion and speed up Survivor's gen speeds on non-unique/spread hooks instead. Probably 2-4% bonus to each Survivor that wasn't hooked, and doubles if already existing. That way with the toggle tunnel on 6 hooks between 2 survivors the 2 remaining Survivors get 96% gen speed bonus each (if 3%). I would even lock in the bonus for the new minimum when a survivor is killed. This would obviously need refining but base concept of reversing your idea seems sound.
I am of the belief that you can't force someone to play fun or fair, but you should make it such a bad idea as to punish you when you choose to do so, regardless of Killer or Survivor player.
Edit: As -> and, it was supposed to be and when I revised the sentence from one that used as
"Since you failed to address all of the other points I made in that comment I shall have to assume that is because you now agree and find them to be true."
Sith Logic doesn't apply to a discussion - so no.
-"I am of the belief that you can't force someone to play fun or fair, but you should make it such a bad idea as to punish you when you choose to do so, regardless of Killer or Survivor player."
You should familiarize yourself about the bet betwen the sun and the wind about who can make a man take off his jacket. No matter how hard the wind blows the man firmly grasps his jacket. The sun gently beams warmth down on the man and he chooses to take it off.
Killers are being forced to tunnel vs strong survivors to have any kind of chance at a fair game. Some killers do choose to tunnel in games where they don't need to do that and other people do it without realizing the current game is not "tryhard".
The best reward we had for scoring multiple different hooks on multiple survivors was Pop goes the Weasel/BBQ. Those were eliminated from being valuable and look what happened - we have more camping as a result. Killer needs some kind of base kit reward for hooking new survivors. No joke - Dying Light Base kit (with the survivor buffs removed) would have been a solid buff for killer. Survivor got BT for free and Killer didn't get a free perk.
-
@Xord said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195022#Comment_3195022
I've rarely seen a comparison as stupid as saying survivors are tunneling generators out of the game. Generators aren't human being trying to play and enjoy the game.
Also the comparison is extremely poor because splitting up is a much more effective way to win the game. It doesn't reward with bloodpoints though.
if as killer you can't win without tunneling, it's 100% a skill issue.
"if as killer you can't win without tunneling, it's 100% a skill issue."
The rule you are setting here by definition then means that Otz has no skill as a 9000 hour player. Every time I tune in to watch his killer stream after a few games he has one tough match where he has to camp tunnel and slug to win.
Your rule is valid only when talking about low MMR.
-" tunneling generators out of the game. Generators aren't human being trying to play and enjoy the game."
Generators are the killer's objective. Removing them too fast reduces the killer's enjoyment of the game - but almost nobody thinks about that.
It would be a waste of time to get 5 or even worse 7 generators to 33% before completing one right? Well it's the same story for hooking a survivor. If you hook one survivor three times the total generator repair capacity possible by the survivors goes down 25% forever.
We could apply your tunneling rule to survivors too. Play a game (non KYF) where you get 5 generators to 33% before ever trying to get one gen to 66%. If you have one gen below threshold you can't work on any generator past 33% or 66%. You are allowed to get multiple generators to 33-66-99% so that you are not held up by one generator.
You have never even for a moment considered playing survivor like that. It's ridiculous that you decide the killer should play in an inefficient manner while survivors should play to complete their objective as fast as possible.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194992#Comment_3194992
Now you see the difference. 2% in very limited area with sound cue about source that can be destroyed (if realized that this source does indeed give that 2% speed) is something very different then perma-speed-boost going from 0 to 11% (but OK - 8% because anything about that does not matter any more). With 8% perma-boost, you no longer even need to use your ability on standard 115% killer - there are no mind games. You just die. And this can be easily seen when you try to loop wesker while fully infected (the effect is numerically very similar - even if not that bad, but very close to it)
To argue the point - with the way how ping fluctuates I am pretty sure that dark theory will be useless for 95% of DBD players even if it was buffed to 4% speed boost (because of limited area effect and because ping would give higher (dis)advantage than the actual active perk - but some "cracked" people on very good internet could possibly make that one additional vault thanks to the perk maybe).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194997#Comment_3194997
Ah. Smash hit with even worse effect. Well... I haven't seen anybody use current smash hit so why would we want to add this perk into game? To have yet another dead perk next to buckle up? :)
Dark Theory is designed for the top 1% of players who can loop frame perfectly - not the average joe. DBD is a frame counting game.
"Non legit" players who have some illegal advantage can loop better than all other players - either because they can move faster, see through walls, or have some other trick active.
Yesterday I played against someone who used Balanced Landing twice in a single chase. Both times they fell from the main building in Ormond they made no stagger noise. This occurred in a longer than 60 second period and at the end game there was no vigil.
Any small change in how fast you can make distance in a chase gives you a huge advantage. This is one of the reasons why I really like using STBFL on Nemesis and Demo.
-
Old pop rewarded the killer for hooking There's no reward to keep chasing new people so your best bet is to remove one person from the game.
Survivors find a generator and get it to 33% and then stop right? No they finish it. Killers do exactly the same. Both sides create a feedback loop that makes for more tunneling.
-
@kizuati said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194900#Comment_3194900
then please,go tell BHVR to buff the bad killers.
overall honestly,if you're playing trapper which is honestly the equivalent of playing perkless as survivor,you shouldnt expect to win every match of yours - you're bringing one of the weakest killers,why do you expect to win against opponents without the weakest loadouts?
No killer playing their best should be thought of as being so low that they may as well be a perkless survivor.
-
@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194353#Comment_3194353
Dark theory? Woah this must be insane a 200% increase to your 1%
It requires a boon and has a small limited area effect.
To reverse the idea - fine then let's make a killer perk like Dark Theory that gives 1% permanent move speed for the killer every time you hook someone. It wont be a hex so you can't "undo" the speed.
-
@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194945#Comment_3194945
Point 1) Maps are still an issue for BOTH sides and saying 95% of the roster still struggles is a blatant lie lmao. The bottom of the barrel killers still struggle in situations that are heavily against them. Again, a problem for perks and maps, not really the killers themselves.
Point 2) Again, even the devs have stated they are accounting for swf being the baseline in balance, and most changes in the past years have been bringing the average killer to that level. Yes, in situations where the survivors are in a team, all using their best perks, and on the best survivor map, they will do better than a Sadako using a meme build. The fact of the matter is the game is balanced towards the side that brought the best stuff. This has been proven for a whie, even before the killer basekit changes which (not even arguably) made killer much less stressful. Completely stress-free? Of course not, you are the killer side and OBJECTIVELY the 1 in 1v4 will be more stressful and harder. The whole "8 perks for me" thing has been spouted for years and I've never seen it not be clowned on lol
"the devs have stated they are accounting for swf being the baseline in balance,"
Given the way the game works that's insanity. SWF gets 3-5x the information a solo queue team gets without using any perk slots for that information.
-
@Lochnload_exe said:
I am a long-time killer main of about 5 years, but I do in fact play quite a bit of survivor too, mainly solo queue. In my experience, solo queue has always been pretty bad and anyone that has played for even a month can probably determine that. This is even more apparent after these last couple of updates, but why? In my eyes, it is because the game is unironically in one of its most balanced states - killer being balanced towards 4 man swf.
SWFS are now the standard by which killer is balanced. This is great...if you are a killer or swf. Games can actually feel somewhat fair and balanced when matches are mmr'd correctly. However, there is a big problem here. A solo queue will almost NEVER have the coordination of a swf team. Hell, most of the time solo queue won't have the coordination of a 3 man swf. However, this isn't because you are being matched with babies.
When 4 people are playing together, they will be generally playing to win as is the reason for the game, unless they are goofing (different story). When 4 people solo queue up, their personal objectives could be entirely different.
Dwight might have a "Do 8 totems" Challenge - Meg is trying to get clips for her tik tok (She has 17 followers) - Feng is doing a funny head on build and wants to get value - Leon is trying to play to win
Only the Leon in the situation cares about doing gens and winning. The other 3 are not. They might all have the same amount of hours as you OR MORE, but if you all aren't trying to win, the game balanced around 4 people TRYING TO WIN is not going to be a fun one when you maybe have 2 people playing seriously.
The problem of solo queue in my eyes is the fact that not everyone could be playing for the same "win". Kindred won't fix this in my eyes, and solo queue icons won't fix that issue.
MY SOLUTION: I think this game could really benefit from a "Search for Party" function. Some other games have things like this, overwatch comes to mind. Add a function to be able to create a party with a title, and others (or yourself) could look through a que of these teams and find some people to play with. "Trying to Win" team might appear and hazzah! You found 3 people that similarly want to play the game and actually know how to counter a camping bubba. Perhaps you just want to do your archives, so you still just drop a solo queue so you aren't committed to some team. I wouldn't even mind implementing ACTUAL comms in the game (of course like most games you can just turn this off). Hell, basekit kindred and solo queue symbols WOULD work in my eyes with a function like this, because at least you know your team has the same mindset as you.
-"SWFS are now the standard by which killer is balanced"
Nurse and Blight are fair if you are on a large map or playing vs a SWF. Almost all the other killers are at a huge disadvantage. If that's not the case for you then you are either not good at survivor or you are playing baby survivors as killer. Watch the 7-9k hour streamers and they will all say what I have just said in a much nicer way.
-"I think this game could really benefit from a "Search for Party" function"
This game would be better off with 5 people go into a custom game and the killer rotates. If people are farming give them a "BP" debt of 1m or a 24 hr time out or something.
The reality is that SWF breaks the game for 95% of the killer roster. Being able to say the killer is over here - he is doing xyz gives you information you are supposed to only know if you spend perk slots for that. If you want to give the killer +4 perks for going against a SWF - fine that might be fair.
I would love to play against 4 man sweat swf squads if I could bring 8 perks of my choice. The SWF teams would want to play solo. That is the kind of change the game really needs to make SWF fair when compared to solo play.
-
@DredgeyEdgey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194353#Comment_3194353
Is anything you'd run faster because you have more force it would be funny if you turned slower though
A perk that made you 1% faster would be broken. Everyone knows that
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194332#Comment_3194332
More then 3 out of 5 games are now killer win (61%). Basement Bubba can still catch one and go make a coffee and still get a kill. How is that hard?
Also - for your video. First 2 pallets were literal stuns - how is that a predrop? You could argue pallet camping, but predrop? Predrop was what jake did on the game.
Also you can counter that stuff. Just today I had a game with legion - he gave the game offering and took addons to break pallet after vault and recharge power after stun + enduring & spirit fury. A sidenote - on the game there are like 2 ok loops (LT) in whole map. Everything else are bad loops on it's own (freezer window, monitor room window 2 floors above basement) or total trash loops (like window next to exit gate that can't be fast vaulted or vaulted back) or huge number of pallets. 0 things you can do in that setup.
Or you can take T2 nemesis. Or nurse. Or iri addon blight. Or pallet wraith. Or any other option you have.
Or you can find yourself on shelter woods with 6 pallets for whole map (yes, under bad RNG it's possible to get only 6 pallets for whole map)
The solution of only play good killers is not acceptable.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3194353#Comment_3194353
No. It's one of those perks that would basically ensure you die in soloQ. On the other hand, it would make bully squads that much stronger.
5% base speed regress would not solve SWF bully squad abuse. But it would guarantee (figurative) 0% usage outside SWF.
You perk is unbalanced so I suggested an obviously gross balancing act.
-
@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192682#Comment_3192682
- Any nurse reference has nothing to do with this topic
- Did you even read my post?! I said M1 should be what to balance around but the maps are a problem. So yeah, Im not joking. The solution is not to design busted killers but to balance maps. Then you don't need nurse
- Again, did you even read me? Of course are open field hits hard, that's not where you T-strike survivors! gawddammit xD And if that is the problem for you, there is no problem because survivors in open fields are heaven for killers. Cuz map design is unbalanced. Read what I write and at least try to think about that for a second
- And if you got 99% of your rankups with Nemi, it doesn't seem like he is that weak as you want to make him look like. And you just want your fav killer to be buffed just to get even easier games
You seem to have some anger issues. Also several of your points are not clear in your previous post.
Nemesis is a joke cmpared to Nurse/Blight. If I queue with Blight I can get the same kill level of people that I get with Nurse or Nemesis. That's stupid unless the killers are equal in skill.
Nemesis would be fine as is with a handicap - cant play against more than 2 ppl in a swf. He is for sure better than trapper but not good enough to handle large maps or SWF. Both together is a nightmare.
-
@DredgeyEdgey said:
Just a perk idea I had for surivors
Heavy hitter : extends the duration that the killer Is stuned for by 1s and give the killer the deafened effect for 5/7/9s
This perk has a 25s cooldown
Deafend effect is the effect that the hag trap has that disorantantes noises
Sounds like an overpowered perk. Maybe all that muscle mass should make you always run 5% slower - then it would be fair and balanced.
-
The devs were asked about this years ago on discord and the answer at the time was 100% no.
However there are new people in charge so maybe the answer will change.
-
Pig can duck to reduce her TR so what she has is fine.
MM can't duck so his teror radius is reduced.
-
@darkcloudlink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193492#Comment_3193492
But people aren’t using Pig traps the way they are meant to be used. I don’t see what I’m not making clear here. If a pig downs you and puts a trap on you, a gen gets done, if she wants you dead, all she has to do is follow you around and prevent you from getting the trap off. She’ll have to throw the match to do it, but I keep seeing pigs doing this in increasing numbers. There’s no counter to it. Your team escapes, but you die with absolutely no counterplay
How is this different from me tunneling you with the killer of my choice? Most games I tunnel one person out and then play a "normal" game 3v1 to have a fair match.
-
You have the title wrong bro - survivor should be harder.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193498#Comment_3193498
i'd say zombies are useless/have low impact on all maps that are not indoor's. in my experience from playing vs nemesis, the mains maps that i would notice their effectiveness is elementary school, lery and RPD. I think its because of narrow hallways for zombies simplifies AI pathing.
zombie-wise, he would need like 3-4 zombies for zombies to have good impact on the match but they said that the reason why his zombies are limited to two is lagging issues but there are many games that host more then 2 AI's in the game and the game does not lag. i have played some mods games that have had AI playing the game and one issue behind AI is that if AI get stuck, they will spam commands into the game-command prompt which causes your computer to lag and the more complicated the AI, the more you will freeze the game. for DBD AI, it can only has like 5 actions, up, down, left, right and melee attack, but for most complicate games, like league of legend style, you can make AI active item skills and do combos, like flash-throw iceball, ability 1, 2, 3 etc. but if an AI like this gets stuck with inputs, you will like freeze the game and lag client.
I would say when zombies getting stuck is likely reason why they're lagging from spamming 100's of inputs even if its just spamming right-left 10 times per second. Another aspect that might be causing zombies to lag is that no killer in dbd creates real-units, so when nemesis kills a zombie or a survivor drops a pallet. they might not be deleting the unit in memory which can create memory leaks. Zombies are likely underwhelming because they did not bother/had no time to optimize them. as a result, the zombie power not that amazing.
Fog was removed from DBD because consoles could not handle it. It was a mistake in my opinion to add consoles to DBD because the fog was essential to stealth. That part of the game is effectively gone and it is dearly missed. One of the best counters to Nurse was the fact that you could hide from her before a chase.
Several console players have told me that the game routinely has micro freezes at regular intervals such as when someone completes a generator.
However it is also important to note that DBD is modeled after Payday 2 and has influences from Starbreeze. They took part of the PD2 frame added a 5th player slot and it already stretched their code to an uncomfortable degree. Once upon a time there was an old bug where people could join a lobby to take the place of a survivor that had just died. Most of the time when this happened the game immediately crashed because it had to "juggle" 6-8 players potentially being in the game.
I had this old bug happen at least 20 times and once I had about 12 people in my lobby in total. The other time it was stable was a game where only one more person was added . Every other time it was a nearly instant crash. Note the survivors who logged in never moved but became something else the game had to deal with.
Something else to consider is that Horvath wrote the nurse code as he created that killer. From what I have heard nobody wants to mess with that too much because it's code soup to someone else. The zombies might be the same problem. Joe coder might have made the zombies, then got a job at intertrode (so he can go to lunch at flingers everyday). Nobody knows how Joe made the zombies work exactly and cant get it working better.
-
@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191279#Comment_3191279
The only time Survivors "tunnel gens" is when they GenB4Fren, when they pop the gen they are currently working on before going for the rescue. That is also the strategy Survivors are supposed to do to counter camping.
Popping a gen (or all gens for that matter) doesn't mean the killer cannot play the game anymore, and as another poster mentioned that would be like a killer stopping a chase when they are 10m away from a survivor without a reason to.
Breaking a Pallet does nothing - a normal 4.6 killer chasing a normal 4.0 survivor will catch up after a 2.6s pallet kick in 17.33s. The improved 2.34 now takes 15.6s. That is 1.733 saved chase seconds per pallet. Also the old speed boost and hit cooldown gave an estimated 20s of an injured survivor running, now it gives ~18s. Those are not nothing nor insignificant.
Pop vs other gen regression - Old pop could be applied to whatever gen you want, but you have to take the travel time you lose into account. How many of those 120-180s did you lose going towards a gen, kicking it, and not chasing a survivor providing pressure. Also SH:PR regression numbers were unchanged, and most other gen kick perks were buffed. Also Eruption gives 25 incapacitated seconds in addition to the 9 seconds of regression. That makes every average value Eruption 34s compared to Pop's 20s. Eruption could also have more or fewer, so in a best case scenario Eruption gives you 84 gen seconds when hitting 3 people trying to prevent a 3-gen or finish a final gen.
Basekit BT no compensation for killers - Killers received the lion's share of the advantage here. The old circumstance for countering hard tunnel off hook would be 1. Hit into BT causing Deep Wound 2. DS after getting downed and 3. DH to delay the chase even longer. The new circumstance is 1. Hit into (basekit or perk) BT causing Deep Wound 2. OTR oh wait Deep Wound blocks that hmm well maybe 3. DH to delay? nope, Deep Wound also blocks that. So before there were 3 meaningful steps to counter tunneling, now there is only one. What if someone didn't have multiple of those perk effects? Well then in the old case the survivor could fake out DS by hiding in a locker. The killer now has to risk DS whether it is there or not. In the current case if you cannot hear the survivor's grunts of pain you swing instantly (to proc OTR), and if you do hear them then you count to 10 (or wait for the visible speed boost to run out). This claim also is ignoring the above mathed out basekit T1 Brutal Strength and STBFL at 2 stacks.
"The only time Survivors "tunnel gens" is when they GenB4Fren, when they pop the gen they are currently working on before going for the rescue."
That is not true. When I say survivors tunnel gens what that means is that they try to finish a complete generator. If something interrupts they will go back to that generator. They won't start a new one. The killer if they are playing smart/efficiently will do the same thing with survivors.
The killer has zero incentive to hook someone they have never hooked before. Imagine for example if you gave survivors a 4% slowdown to all actions for hooking someone new for the first time. Hook all 4 survivors once and you add 16% permanent slowdown. Add Dying light on top of that and that might be a decent perk assuming that 4% slowdown were a base mechanic.
But we don't have anything like that so the killer is only rewarded for eliminating survivors. Likewise survivors are rewarded for completing whole generators.
-
@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193279#Comment_3193279
What I am saying is the value gained from added intel is often squashed by the disparity of your friend's skill levels. It also can backfire when someone says "(s)he's on me" and the killer left while rounding a corner. Getting a free hit that a soloq player wouldn't have received. It requires a different play style, and failure to adapt is on the killer. Weaponize your enemy's tools against them.
Sharing the correct info can take time to learn.
But communications make you better not worse - especially when people start saying they have this perk/that perk because distortion went off.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193306#Comment_3193306
Naming other killers - Blight/Oni mid rush if he missed (you are out of control to correct it (especially blight has bad cancel)), Wesker to a degree (you miss (and are out of control to not go full distance) or you cancel your ability and now you can't m1).
Also it's not that rare that zombies block doors/narrow paths - they even don't loose collision, so sometimes they screw over survivors big time.
But to repeat myself - I am not against fixing zombies so, that they don't get stuck. But saying, that they are totally useless is huge exageration. They can be totally useless in some games, but they can win others on their own. It's more problem of how inconsistent they are (sometimes they work as if controlled by best team of players in DBD, other times they are just stuck on a single spot)
"I am not against fixing zombies so, that they don't get stuck. But saying, that they are totally useless is huge exageration. They can be totally useless in some games"
I watched Otz play one game of Nemesis today. He played on Mother's Dwelling which is the largest map at over 12,000m². Both zombies were stuck for almost the entire game. Neither zombie applied any pressure because the map is so big. I was trying to say that zombies are nearly completely worthless on large maps.
Honestly there shouldn't be "large maps". But that's just something we have to deal with and is unlikely to change so zombies should maybe have double detection radius on large maps. Maybe we should change the infected status to double the zombie detection radius? So then If you play a large map and someone is infected then the zombie (which wont get stuck anymore) will detect you from 4x the normal radius that it would compared to a "small map".
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3193279#Comment_3193279
Pop Goes the Weasel is the #18 most used perk on the aggregate site I follow. Just because it's no longer a #1 perk doesn't mean its dead. It's even well above average in terms of pick rate.
Gen slowdown regression was changed so that you need to focus on multiple perks now to do what one or two did before. But when you see a #1 perk go to #18 that's pretty dead, Jim.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192682#Comment_3192682
Start to count your wins against loses. Nemesis is above avarage killer. I see no reason to buff (or nerf for that matter) this killer. When you get to 50 games - check your killrate. I am pretty sure it will be above 50% (indicating slight nerf would be OK - not that I advocate for it).
The only indirect buff would be fixing his zombies to not get stuck - that will still not make that huge difference, because it no longer happens as often as it used to.
And zombies are useful - as a slowdown. You shouldn't expect hits from them, but it's almost every nemesis game that some zombie comes and forces me out of one loop, protects some generator or even facecamps hook. Check the map and see how often has the zombie raised hand. By avarage you can count 50% of that time as direct survivor slowdown.
"By avarage you can count 50% of that time as direct survivor slowdown."
On the swamp maps it is very common for the zombies to get stuck and do literally nothing productive. I've had them bug out and literally not be able to move from a hook spawn on those maps. I actually had to punch them 2-3 times while carrying someone to use that hook.
Zombies should be no clip for Nemesis (he shunts them aside by moving through their space) as they often block him in chases especially through the new RPD and other tight doorways. Name another killer who can say : I won't get a hit now because my power which is out of my control got in the way.
"Start to count your wins against loses. Nemesis is above avarage killer."
Then limit the opponents I can face to only above average. Make a cut off point on the MMR chart and say Nemesis is here, Clown is down from that and nurse is WAY up at the top.
-
@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192453#Comment_3192453
I watched Otz play a map on Lerys within the last two weeks. They were a SWF using callouts and finished two gens before he ever got a chase. Otz finally caught one and camped them in the basement.
So you're calling Otz bad becuase he camped someone to death to apply pressure? Seems Not Legit.
You missed sarcasm-sign, didn't you? That was the whole point. Just like survivours who can't deny tunneling even with all those OTRs and DSs perks. It's not a skill issue for them, it's a game design problem that they have to deal with tunneling using all perks and they can't. They don't have to "learn how to play" and it's not "their fault, they let killer tunnel them". It's a problem for both sides. Same problem. One big problem.
"they still will genrush no matter what". Because that's true."
And that is why killers tunnel. When survivors efficiently repair gens you are forced to tunnel to apply pressure.
Again. That was my whole point. You told me that if we slow gens somehow and let killers reason to leave the hook to slow gens, they'll leave the hook. But if we slow killers down somehow will it stop survivours from repairing gens? No, they won't stop, moreover they will be able to finish gens even faster than before. Same with killers, they ALREADY can apply pressue by camping and tunneling. You can offer them a second option but they already have one and they have no reason to exchange them. And all "nerf survs" options will make camping even stronger.
What if the Shack pallet starts removed at the start of the game?
Killers still will be tunneling, because it will be even more easy now. And survs will be even more genrushing because there's more dangerous for them. You can balance maps somehow but AFTER the problem is solved, and you can't solve tunneling by that, just like you can't fix "genrush" by nerfing killers and making them less threteaning.
Because if you hard limit tunneling the killers will stop playing because there will be no way to beat good players on maps that are overall just too safe with too many pallets/vaults.
"It's not us-vs-them, it's problem for both sides just for different reasons. Both sides' reasons should be addressed. It is not like BHVR will nerf camping for survivors and that's it."
The difference is that most survivors feel it's fine to tunnel generators because the generator asset is a NPC object even though it is tied to the killer's win condition.
You talk like survivours somehow decide to MOCK killers with repairing gens. No, the survivours feel it's NESSESSARY to tunnel gerenators or they will be tunneled themselves, just like killers feel it's nessessary to tunnel and camp in order to get kills. And a lot of killers tunnel survivors EVEN THOUGH they aren't NPC, they are real humans who feel felings and who want to play the game and don't want to be kicked out with 4k points after 2 minutes. But here we are. It's not like "oh, you don't want me tunnel, then stop doing gens", it doesn't work, killers don't know whether survs be doing gens effectively or not, they camp and tunnel in advance. And survs tunnel gens with the same reason in mind. That's why I think your solution won't work. It's a cycle, a circle.
These problems are connected, you can't bring gen slowdown in game and say "now killers have no reason to camp". They have their reasons, the only big reason is camping works. I repeat my point but you have to make camping uneffective strategy, only then camping will be stoped. But at the same time you have to address gen speed (by speed itself, by adding other objectives, map balance or killer buff). Gen speed has to be addressed at the same time as a second problem, not as a solution for the first one.
We don't need punish camping, but camping should be reworked to be as effective as AFK. But to reach that goal we have to change gameflow itself, including both hooks and generators. I don't think it's possible without "Dead by Daylight 2".
"These problems are connected"
That's what I have been saying all along. If you tunnel gens it forces the killer to tunnel someone out to "catch up". Unfortunately most killers are conditioned by the survivors they play against to tunnel someone out and then "play normally".
"we have to change gameflow itself, including both hooks and generators"
There are actually very simple solutions (note plural that I came up with in under 5 minutes). The problem I think is that the devs are quite happy with the current model in terms of income.
Why don't I share the answer? If you're good at something never do it for free.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192466#Comment_3192466
- You actually have three options - have Pop and kick gens with it, don’t have Pop and kick gens without it, and don’t kick gens. Each has a different level of regression. In order to compare the third option to the other two you need to add in that 2.5% base regression, you can’t just ignore it. It’s definitely possible that kicking with Pop is worth it but kicking without it isn’t for instance compared to not spending time kicking at all.
- My point is Pop is being used regularly by an average number of people including above average ones, it’s not a totally dead perk like you’re claiming.
- “How do you know which gen is being worked on?” Game sense, it’s not that hard actually.
"My point is Pop is being used regularly by an average number of people"
It used to have 75% usage on killer because it worked. I can play survivor for a week and maybe see it once. That level of drop off shows that the perk is dead. If we want to talk about technicalities - Latin isn't a dead language because it is taught in school. For the same reason pop is technically not dead. Some people use it not realizing how little it does now - but most people figured it out and use something else.
@mizark3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3188963#Comment_3188963
To use content creator references I would say most SWFs are like AFK During Campfire, and are a group of friends BS-ing around the game. Very few SWFs are the Hens styled survivor survival streak sweat squad. SWF also doesn't help me when my fourth is bad at the game, and we are playing together. If anything, it brings me down because now the killer has 1 person they can easily down and can intercept people going for the rescue.
Even the most casual groups I watch on twitch share information. "He has Bamboozle" gives you a warning before you should know. Imagine if your perks were all visible next to your character profile for the killer to see in a SWF game. Even small messages like the killer is over here let you know when to make the right decisions.
The simple obvious answer is that SWF gives an advantage therefore people want to play in a SWF to get an advantage at no cost. That's not fun or fair to play against as killer.
-
@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3188975#Comment_3188975
yeah... I totally disagree with most things. I don't know why you compare Nemesis to nurse. Nurse is a problem because she ignores everything survivors use to protect and will always be a problem in the state she is as long as she isnt't nerfed to a point where she can't blink (which is kinda what you suggest). She already got nerfed like "she cant blink as often as before" and everyone was like "nurse dead now" and look where we are now. Still the same as before, aren't we? So I don't argue on that part.
Just in short: The game should be balanced around M1 killers. But if you balance around M1 killers, you will notice that maps are the main problem. Therefore they fix it with killers that have anti loop powers and the closer you get that anti loop to nurse, the worse it will be for game health. I don't say Nemesis will be a problem if he got buffed. I'm saying it will be a problem if he gets buffed too hard. You listed 4 effects and adding all of these will not be just a slight buff and can easily get out of hand.
Not sure how exactly your next points are related to Nemesis hindered effect, so the following is basically offtopic I guess.
- I dont care what people say when something is new, they also said on PH "the telegraph! you will never be able to hit with his ranged" until they noticed this is mainly a zoning tool. I don't agree that 2% is nothing. it helps only on certain loops, yes. shack for example is easier to play because if you mess up the timing the boon gives you back a bit to compensate. and 2% is hard to notice, if the killer doesn't notice, it messes up with hit timing on when to go for lunge attacks, especially on vaults and pallets
- yeah you can chose to never get tormented, but that (in my experience) gives the killer just a bunch of free hits as you have to run into the open and PH is still faster than you while trailing.
- I also disagree that zombies are useless. They are buggy sometimes but that is a bug. and pls let's not start the "BHVR is survivor sided" discussion here. it is a bug and everything needs to be fixed. you just don't notice the effect of zombies regularly. If I play against Nemesis, zombies can be annoying AF, more regularly than not in my experience
- Where did I say that you need an addon to have OK games? I just said that it is pretty easy to get to tier 2 because you need just to hit 2 separate survivors or with addon the first chase already gets you there. This is both pretty fast. (Nemesis addons are overall pretty lame btw, he could use a pass, imho it doesnt change a lot if you play him addonless)
- I dont think that it is that easy to dodge his tentacle strike. do you only try hits open field? as soon as there are any obstacles right next to the survivor you can zone them. they cant dodge into the wall so you can make them dodge into your strike, while you can still strafe during the attack and move the hitbox into the obstacle. as you describe it, it sounds that it is almost impossible to ever land a hit, like a new billy that tries to land chainsaws at 20m distance
To sum up: Im not saying Nemesis is the strongest killer in the game. But I think people underestimate several effects when discussing about buffs and just point out single numbers or effects and forget about several side effects or the total picture.
-"I don't know why you compare Nemesis to nurse"
Nurse lost the busted addons this patch so once again it is fair to play against her. That being said SWF got stronger this patch with the rework of all gen slow down perks. Nurse needs to exist as a strong killer as long as SWF exists with no penalty or restrictions.
Nemesis might be "OK" enough with just an addon shuffle if he were unable to play against SWF teams. But that's not how the game works.
-"The game should be balanced around M1 killers."
You're joking right? The M1 killers primarily speaking are some of the worst killers in the game and survivors want to go against them because it is a guarantee of an easy win. If we balance the game around M1 killers then no map can be larger than 9000m². Likewise there can never be more than 12 pallets and at most each map will have 1 "god" pallet and 6 Unsafe pallets +5 safe pallets.
The opposing argument is SWF groups should only play against Nurse or Blight. No I'm not actually suggesting that but it would make SWF fair in its current form.
"I dont think that it is that easy to dodge his tentacle strike. do you only try hits open field?"
Open field hits are actually the hardest place to score a hit against good survivors because they can go in any direction to dodge.
I play Nemesis a lot so I know how to bait tentacle hits and I know how to hit people on loops they think they are safe. But I see some survivors who are almost impossible to whip. Some of them are just absolute mad lads.
I got 99% of my rank ups for blood point rewards this year playing Nemesis so I know how to play him.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190918#Comment_3190918
You can’t just ignore the 2 seconds you get from kicking a gen when you use Pop, it’s part of the total amount the gen is regressed when you kick with it. And the gens you most want to kick with the perk have always been the ones with the most progress, that was true before the rework and is still true today. So saying it gets less value on the gens that are the lowest priority targets makes it “useless” is a big exaggeration, if you were using Pop wisely you were using it on the higher priority targets when possible and getting most of your value that way anyway.
Also I’ve seen streamers using Pop, especially in combination with either Call of Brine or Overcharge. It does get use even with its nerf.
And you’re wrong about Pain Resonance not being useful without its tracking info. Its regression alone makes it strong enough to use, in fact it’s the single most popular killer perk at the moment specifically because its regression is so good.
"You can’t just ignore the 2 seconds you get from kicking a gen when you use Pop, it’s part of the total amount the gen is regressed when you kick with it."
You get the same 2.5% regression without Pop so it's deceitful to say look how much more regression Pop is giving.
"I’ve seen streamers using Pop"
I saw a streamer using absolute nonsense trash survivor perks in my game tonight when I was playing survivor. So what.
Pop was 75% usage before the shake up and from what I see in my games it's down to like 7% usage. See my previous figures. Pop now gives the killer 60-120 seconds fewer so it's no longer top tier.
"you’re wrong about Pain Resonance not being useful without its tracking info"
You're on the largest DBD map and you hooked someone in a corner. In the other three corners are two survivors on a generator. Which generator to do you run to? It will take you 15 seconds to cross the map so you can check only one. Your perk does nothing if the generator was very close to being completed.
-
@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190702#Comment_3190702
Nah works in higher mmr too.
Noe of the biggest name streamers I watch ever seem to use it - except when paid to use it in a build request.
-
@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191279#Comment_3191279
>> So that means you often get a generator to 20% then leave that generator for no reason and get another generator to 20% and then make sure all the generators are at 20% before working any generator from 20-40%?
>> No - You've never done that. You try to complete a whole generato r.
Wrong analogy. If there is a good reason to leave gen (killer is nearby or another surv needs help), you leave gen and sometimes even forget about it for good. Moreover, if survivors are trying to "tunnel" 80-90% generator despite the killer being super protective, having all perks like jolt, overcharge and so on and forcing you to leave that gen, you can be punished for tunneling - you can be injured, hooked and loose this gen completely. Or you can let your teammate die on hook finishing this one gen and loose 1/4 of team force.
So no, normally survivors don't tunnel gens, it's more like hooking afk person. They're afk, you have nothing else to do, why shouldn't you hook/repair them if they stand still and let you do that? Gens can't protect themselves from tunneling, that's the killer who can punish survivors for tunneling and force them to change their target from one gen to another and spread gen-stages. And in most cases survivors happily change their target if that's not a strategically important 3-gen (just like you, securing second stage), because their gen-tunneling is more dangerous and punishable if killer wants to make it so. They literally can loose because of that strategy (and a lot of games were lost because survivors committed for finishing gen with no good reason for that).
But no one can hook killer and deny their intention to "finish" 99% survivor. Perks can slow down them (like gen-regression perks) but there's no real punishment. And no real reason to not tunnel (just like survivors have no reason to leave gen unfinished if there's no killer and no hooked teammates nearby).
s/ it's not fun. I can say you same thing: killer tunnels survivors so survivors tunnel gens. They don't have options to regress their hook stages so they have to tunnel gens to "gain" enough time to survive the possible tunneling and camping. If they don't they can find themselves dead with only one gen completed. If we make effective camping and tunneling impossible, then there's enough time for survs to play and complete their objectives and they won't trying to gen rush you, simple as that! You don't camp because you can't and survivors don't genrush you because they don't have to. s/
I'm pretty sure, you'll say smth about "they still will genrush no matter what". Because that's true.
s/ Interesting how killers don't want to prevent gen tunneling with their skill and perks and just stay near hook, crying on forums and begging devs to slowdown gens and punish survivors for tunneling gens out. If survivors get gen 99 done, you've already lost it, it's your fault you let them tunnel your gens, accept your skill issues and don't ask for second chance perks. Git gud /s
I mean, camping nerf isn't a bad idea. The fact that all killers are so protective about camping just highlights problems with game design. And leaving camping as it is doesn't solve those problems. It's not us-vs-them, it's problem for both sides just for different reasons. Both sides' reasons should be addressed. It is not like BHVR will nerf camping for survivors and that's it.
"it's your fault you let them tunnel your gens, accept your skill issues"
I watched Otz play a map on Lerys within the last two weeks. They were a SWF using callouts and finished two gens before he ever got a chase. Otz finally caught one and camped them in the basement.
So you're calling Otz bad becuase he camped someone to death to apply pressure? Seems Not Legit.
DBD has rules that massively favor the survivors. That is why killers need to camp to win. Baby killers (usually this means survivor mains) playing vs baby survivors can do the no perk AFK challenge with any killer and win. It's not like that when you face teams who play as if they are trying to win a $100,000 tournament. People love to say "those teams are rare" - they might be for you but they are not for me, Otz, Truetalent and most of the big name streamers. I'm not a streamer but I get very skilled players just like I see on those streams.
@hastarkis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191167#Comment_3191167
We all saw killers who camp their first hook on 5 gens. Why? Because, obviously, they can afford that without fear of loosing. They have the whole time of the universe after fast down 20 seconds into the game catching survs off guard with Lethal and how they decide to use that time? Right. They don't even have to kick gens or force the entity to block it with your new mechanic, they have enough time just standing there. No reason to left the hook, literally zero, no special mechanics with blocking gens after kick will help. It's enough for them to get at least two kills without chases, mindgames and map control. Sometimes they get not only win with 2-3-4k but also 27-30k bloodpoints thanks to all hooktrades.
So, survivors don't do gens? Killers camp and tunnel because they can afford that and kill one person before even 3 gens can be completed and then play 3v1. Survivors do gens? Killers camp and tunnel because there's nothing else they can do to secure kills. Sounds like broken unsolvable cycle.
If you camp only when you feel insecure having one hook after 2-3 gens doesn't mean all killers have same mentality. Basically your situation is ok for devs - securing second stage or proxy camping is a legit strategy they don't want to remove.
The only two reasons now force killers to left hooks in 5-gen situations: the person feel camping bad, or feel camping boring. But that's an effective strategy, sometimes it's so effective even feeling bad or bored can't stop it. You can offer more effective strategies, but those can't beat camping until camping itself becomes less effective (or effective for only specified situations). Like, imagine you offer 1 mil dollars for everyone who agrees to make smth but if they want they can get 500k without doing anything. There are always people who just take 500k for free and left. That's enough for them. I don't camp because I feel too bad but I'd definitely get 500k for free instead of trying to get 1 mill somehow. Even 100k would be ok for me lol. Anyway, they can agree and try to get 1 mill if the "free" option is 1k only. Or 1$ only. Because it's less than enough. But until it's enough to win they'll be doing that with all imaginable options and incentives you'd offer them for not to.
That's how people work. The only way to beat camping is to make it like throwing pawns in chess. It could be fun thing to do but you can't win that way. You either camp/tunnel for your fun (or revenge for clicks or any other reasons) or you play for win. There shouldn't be punishment for camping but camping has to be smth like afk. No one punishes you for being afk, or for being Bubba-basement-chest-defender, you just get nothing out of that.
But well... the game should be remade for that. Especially, if devs want some camping (like proxy camping) be reliable. Until that, everything is band-aid fix.
"they still will genrush no matter what". Because that's true."
And that is why killers tunnel. When survivors efficiently repair gens you are forced to tunnel to apply pressure. You can hook one person three times and they die or you can hook three different people and you have nothing. This is the same as applying 90 seconds of repair to one generator or applying 90 seconds of repair to three generators.
If you want to remove tunneling from the game that's fine but you have to remove the ability for survivors to tunnel gens as effectively as they do now. Then you can wave a magic wand and make killers not want to tunnel. Unless you do both there is no way the game can change. Why? Because if you hard limit tunneling the killers will stop playing because there will be no way to beat good players on maps that are overall just too safe with too many pallets/vaults.
The game would be very different if the devs had done something like removed 1 pallet or vault from the map as you rank up moving from ash to yellow to green to purple to red ranks. Some of the maps would probably be fair if they played at "red ranks" with -4 pallets. Imagine for example any of the farm maps with -4 pallets. What if the Shack pallet starts removed at the start of the game?
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191279#Comment_3191279
And here we go again. Your example with 20% gens would be same as getting close to survivor and then abandoning it. Maybe hit him once and then running away as much as possible. Tunneling is focusing single survivor just after unhook with single intention - to get him out of the game ASAP. Survivor's version on a gen is bringing BNP with best commodious toolbox and extra charges and hyperfocus + proof + streetwise + built to last and going 2+ person on a same generator. You can see that in some matches from time to time. But most people just don't do that.
Yet there is quite a number of killers (I would say 30% in my MMR range) that tunnel survivors like this (even ignoring downed survivor just to get that one unhooked). This is what we are talking about. Not doing generator 1 by 1. Maybe 2 and someone bringing proof to (not entirely) mitigate debuff that the game already provides.
Also killers DID GET MUCH more powerful after 6.1. I would gladly wipe out EVERY. SINGLE. CHANGE. from 6.1 patch if it ended up in 80s gens, longer hit CD and longer sprint after hit + DS revert (the length - endgame could even stay the way it was). Breaking the pallets would be bonus I could fully live without. And I have to mention it again because you might have not played right after the patch or you might suffer amnesia (I have no idea which one), but basically every match after 6.1 for a few days ended up in a 4K. Queue times for killer and survivor instantly swapped + quite some more - making some streamers complain that they can no longer play any killer matches. So saying 6.1 wasn't VERY CLEARLY killer buff dream patch requires some very selective vision to say it politely.
-"Tunneling is focusing single survivor just after unhook with single intention"
It's a waste of time to debate you if you think for a second survivors don't do the same thing to break 3 gens. Getting my gens tunneled out is just as frustrating when playing killer as it is to get camped and tunneled out of a game as survivor.
The difference is that most survivors feel it's fine to tunnel generators because the generator asset is a NPC object even though it is tied to the killer's win condition.
-
@foodie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190737#Comment_3190737
So by your messaging, it would appear that you've never played Hag, you have no clue how her power works, and you don't know how to face her as a survivor. You're not interested in educating yourself before making commentary, but you would love to spat out empty words. Good on you, but not worth my time :)
Google Hag, her gameplay and how to counter her. If you don't want to, stick to Trapper
I've seen some of the very best players play Hag and play against her. If you place traps in correct areas you can't do anything about the traps unless you have an exhaustion perk like sprint. You can risk running through traps if she is "busy" but she might teleport to you and hit you.
If the Hag misplaces a trap you can trigger them through a window - but that's a misplay and not really relevant.
I don't even want to play Trapper - you're missing the point. Hag has some of the most boring gameplay where she can do things that have no counterplay unless you have a flashlight.
Example:
Place survivor on hook. Trap all entrances to hooked area. Trap hook directly. Stay relatively close and wait for unhook. If they run the trap is triggered and you hit them. If they duck past the traps you run to the hook and hit them. That is what we call a catch 22.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3191167#Comment_3191167
No. Survivors don't "tunnel" gens. At least good survivors don't. It's inefficient (not counting last 1 or 2 generators). Going 2+ survivors on single gen means more problems if killer comes and penalty for doing that (with proof, the penalty is very low, but it's still there). So that's wrong on your part again.
And again. I have never seen so much camping as we could have seen just after 6.1. The reason being, that there was no counterplay - meaning it was minimum the killer needed to do (just get 1 quick chase to get 1 survivor out of game) and slamming gens did nothing to it thanks to 90s generators.
So to repeat myself - killer had every opportunity to not camp/tunnel after 6.1. What we actually saw was instead of NOT camping/tunneling, we saw majority of killers camp/tunnel. So to quote you "The solution is to make killers more powerful. " is wrong as proven by 6.1 patch. And as proven by 6.2 patch - the solution to camp is make camping LESS powerful.
"No. Survivors don't "tunnel" gens"
So that means you often get a generator to 20% then leave that generator for no reason and get another generator to 20% and then make sure all the generators are at 20% before working any generator from 20-40%?
No - You've never done that. You try to complete a whole generator.
Also killer really didn't get more powerful with the 6.1 patch. The best killer perks were nerfed to oblivion. Gens were made 10 seconds longer but now everyone is using Prove Thyself and Hyperfocus. Good players are completing gens faster than ever before. Breaking a pallet 10% faster does nothing - streamers made videos before the patch showing what 100% faster pallet breaking looked like. It did nothing because most maps have insane pallet density throughout the map.
Pop Goes the Weasel used to save me about 120-180 seconds per game. I did the math in another thread and on average kicking low-middle progress generators only saves 50-60 seconds with nerfed pop.
Meanwhile Survivors get 10 seconds of borrowed time base kit. Killers don't get any perk to compesnate. Much less Borrowed time was the only meta perk that got buffed instead of nerfed. It makes no sense.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190943#Comment_3190943
100% not true. The test was made and killers failed in this regard.
Killers were never stronger then just after 6.1 patch making there chases strongest they have ever been in whole DBD history. Also killers never camped and tunneled as much, as after patch 6.1 (first days after the patch, people had some serious problems doing more then 2-3 gens before 4K). This only changed in patch 6.2 where camping got serious nerf.
The end result being - people will camp & tunnel if it is easy to do and it gives them good chance to win. So to reduce camp/tunnel in the game, you need to make this strategy "bad" (it's low risk, so it should yield low reward). This can be done by e.g. making reassurance basekit or making it not being behind paywall + buffing it's distance and duration. And this has also been tested to work, because people camp WAAAAY less after 6.2 in comparison to 6.1 patch.
-"The test was made and killers failed in this regard."
What test was this? LOL.
Survivors tunnel gens so killers tunnel survivors. Since the survivor objective is shorter the killer is forced to do something to "gain" more time. That is why they tunnel.
-
@Jmok said:
there has to be something that can be done about hook campers.... make it bannable record the games. or make it something like they have to be so far from the hook like 36meeters before you even start going down on hook timer. i dont know. i just know campers not getting in trouble makes a lot of games trash to play when the killer is just staring at you on the hook. very unpleasant. and I would also like to know why nothing has been done about this yet.
The solution is to make killers more powerful. What? Am I crazy? No - it will make sense if you listen.
When I play killer I will always camp someone to stage two if I lose two gens before getting my first hook. The pace of the game is simply too fast if survivors focus on slamming generators.
Imagine for example that a base mechanic were added to the game that if a killer were beyond 20m away from a hook then the entity would block one generator from being worked on until that survivor was rescued. However this would be different in that the killer could kick the generator and no one could work the generator until the survivor were rescued or they died on the hook if the killer were beyond 20m.
This would literally force the killer to want to leave the area to block the generator. This would force the survivor whose gen was blocked to go and make the save.
The underlying problem is that the survivor objective can be finished in 4 minutes but the killer objective takes 6-9 minutes. This is why killers tunnel.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3190701#Comment_3190701
- Pop Goes the Weasel used to remove a flat 20 seconds, now assuming you use it on a gen that has 50-95% progress it removes 10 - 20 seconds. It's still quite useful as long as you don't waste it on a gen with no progress (which is why people still use it.)
- Pain Resonance does not need another perk to make it work. Its regression alone is worth using it.
Before the rework Pop was fantastic for turning a gen with 20% progress down to 0% progress. Your estimate is far too generous considering it takes 2 seconds to kick the generator and not having the perk removes a flat 2.5% so we won't consider this for talking about calculations as kicking a gen without pop will always give you that value too.
If you kick a gen at 99% you will remove 17.82 seconds of additional progress. The problem is that kicking a gen with that much progress is basically a lost cause. What happens if you kick a gen at 30% progress? You remove 5.4 seconds of progress by spending two seconds kicking the generator. Bear in mind that the time you are spending kicking a generator for 2 seconds gives 8 seconds to the enemy team if 4 people are alive. That is almost completely worthless.
Pop is the perk that was carrying survivors before the rework. No big name streamers are using Pop after its rework because it was completely gutted. It was common for me to get 6-9 Pop's per game and I saw streamers have similar results. That means on average I was increasing the time needed to complete the survivor objective by 120-180 seconds.
Pop used to have great value kicking gens at 20% progress but now it essentially has zero value because you lose more time than you gain for kicking. If we consider kicking gens between 20 and 50% progress on average (35%) and multiply that by the same value we get a time savings of: 6.3 seconds per kick. So now Pop is only saving 37.8-56.7 seconds.
Translation: Pop received a 50-75% effective nerf in circumstances where I used to routinely kick generators.
Would anyone still be using Prove Thyself if it lost 50-75% effectiveness? No. The same goes for boons too.
As for Pain Resonance it really only works in circumstances where you use BBQ to see where the survivors are to follow up on the explosion or DMS which will block the generator automatically. Without another perk the Killer doesn't know where to go making the regression useless if you have to make a 33% or worse coin toss. It takes most killers about 15 seconds to cross medium sized maps (and the act of hooking takes about 15 seconds). That means the survivors had at least 30 seconds to work on the generator.
In other words without a follow up the Pain Res will have very little effect unless the gen has very low progress - in which case you didn't need the perk anyway.
-
@foodie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3188989#Comment_3188989
A yellow flashlight can destroy a trap in a second with 0 effort and basically no charge taken off the flashlight. Play Hag a bit, and you will see where the issue with that lies.
I gave an example with Trapper because the fact is back in the day, you didn't only disarm traps, you could sabotage them, and it could destroy the Trapper in a match. This was changed for the Trapper's benefit.
Same thing with Hag.
I never said flashlights should not be a method of destroying traps, but there should be a penalty like losing a lot of charges when doing that, or the traps taking 2-3 seconds to get destroyed by a flashlight.
A yellow flash alone can destroy around 20 traps, that's an entire web twice. In the past, before all the flashlight changes, a yellow flash would destroy no more than 5 traps. Do you see the significance here?
Think about that from the killer side. Survivors have plenty of other counter options, and the fact is Hag is the only killer in this game with so many counters to her power.
"Play Hag a bit, and you will see where the issue with that lies."
Trapper could only wish to have it so easy. If a flashlight is required to remove a trap then maybe it should remove the trap forever. That would be fair - or we can just have it so you can remove traps by hand.
"Do you see the significance here?"
Traps should be able to be scratched out by hand. Do you not understand?
"Hag is the only killer in this game with so many counters to her power."
There is one viable counter that can be used and it is an item that the killer can take away from you.
-
@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3188956#Comment_3188956
If you struggle to get value from noed that's on you it's still good perk. Sometimes it gets cleansed immdieatelly but other times you can secure the win with it. Just an example if there is 3 survivors alive you have one hooked now one goes for save other opens exit. So you down the one coming for save with noed and you you know the other survivor is opening exit so you can push him out. Game which most likely would resulted in 1K now turned to 3K with noed.
"If you struggle to get value from noed that's on you it's still good perk"
I'm sure it is *for you* at low MMR.
-
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3186247#Comment_3186247
- Pop Goes the Weasel is still used, it’s about 7% on the aggregate site I follow which is in the top 20 perks. Calm Spirit in comparison is one of the least used survivor perks now, about 0.37%, so it’s not even close between the two.
- Pain Resonance is still extremely good and is currently the top used killer perk by a pretty solid margin (29% usage)
You're missing the point that Pop went from removing 20% of a generator's progress to removing an extra 2-5% progress. That's an insane nerf.
Also Pain Res needs an extra perk to make it work. Self care got this level of nerf because it is worthless now without Botany Knowledge.
Meanwhile every survivor has BT base kit. AND BT was one of the few meta perks that got buffed - which is completely insane.
Killers should have been given one free meta perk to compensate - either Deadlock, Pain Res or Corrupt Intervention to have a base slowdown mechanic.
-
@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3188963#Comment_3188963
It's not as huge as you make it sound. It can go so far with best survivors. But most of us people can't communicate that effectively.
Sure if you find that SWF (and especially if they are bullies) you get steamrolled. It's the same as getting nurse. But I am pretty sure majority of SWF are "baby nurse". They could have been OP, but they miss every opportunity to be that...
"It's not as huge as you make it sound"
Extra information is a huge advantage. That's why SWF groups have a 15% escape advantage. For sake of comparison Freddy got reworked from his former "OP" state because he had a win rate that was apparently 4% too high.
If getting more information isn't a huge advantage then give the killer extra perks to combat against SWF groups. If that sounds oppressive then limit SWF groups in a very simple way so that it is impossible to bully the killer. How do we do that? Make the rule that no character, perk or item can be repeated in a SWF. Since most people are in a two man party that's not a big deal. People playing in a four man team can just play solo if it's too much of a hassle to coordinate perks. Better yet they could have all the perks the squad is bringing apear over that survivor's head. Non repeated perks would aooear as blue (like the vigil buff) and have any repeated perks appear in red (like the Pentimento debuff).
-
@foodie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3186310#Comment_3186310
If that's the case, then survivors should be able to sabotage trapper's bear traps like it was in the past.
Devs have said they dont want survivors to be able to do that. Its bad enough flashlights take no effort or charges to destroy her traps. You can step on her traps to destroy them. You can crouch to avoid them.
There are plenty of things you can do, but you need to use brain when playing vs Hag, especially if it's a Hag main.
Holding W and spamming space is not enough. There are ways to trigger traps and not get slapped by Hag, there are timings in which you can freely step on her traps, you can see them in most places.
Good survivors can win vs hag with no issues, even if its a Hag main they've playing against
"then survivors should be able to sabotage trapper's bear traps like it was in the past."
No one is asking for that - because no one is asking for flashlights to permanently destroy Hag traps (as in reduce her count permanently).
"You can step on her traps to destroy them"
Needing an item to silently remove the traps without triggering them would remove the associated "camping noob" title that usually gets attributed to Hag. Imagine if we made a new killer whose power had no effect if you were holding a map ( think green lantern vs yellow objcets). I would just dodge all lobbies while playing that killer if someone had a map.
Hag is cheap. She is built on catch 22 tactics that are not ever fun to play against unless you're in a KYF lobby and everyone brings a flashlight against a Hag who is not bringing Frankins.
Letting people scratch out traps with no item would be 100% on par with being able to disarm beartraps without an item.
-
@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3186236#Comment_3186236
How is it helpful against those perks? It doesn't stop the killer from kicking the gen, it just delays them for 5s. The only time it's going to do something meaningful is if the gen was 99ed and you can slip in and finish it.
Blast Mine has always been a meme. It was never anything close to a meta perk, so SB is a very weird comparison.
Blast Mine was always strong against Pop because it gave you time to run. You can get the same effect from Sprint Burst but you can have both and literally be 20 seconds ahead of the killer. Blast Mine can also protect someone who doesn't have an exhaustion perk ready (or doesn't have one at all).
The biggest value though again is from the information with solo queue. You can say : I am working this generator over here. This can suggest to another survivor that they should go for the save because you are WAY across the map.
@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3186236#Comment_3186236
If you want to truly counter these perks you use Repressed Alliance. Blast Mine is more about wasting a bit of killer's time/punishing them for kicking and not chasing, which it can't do an amazing job at.
This perk is just not good and after the bugfix it became worse.
Repressed Alliance is not a perk most people use because there are 4 survivors and you literally cannot chase them all at once. Denying access to the generator is functionally better for the killer than it is for survivors unless 1-2 players are dead.
-
@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3186215#Comment_3186215
THis already might already be busted because you have, unlike Healing sprays with Wesker, a very limited amount of cures through the match, which means like half way through the match the entire team runs at perma hindered, which is a big thing for a 115% killer
Btw I think his anti loop is way stronger at pallets when you dont hit the survivor but insta break the pallet. No waiting for the drop until you may kick it, being able to at least move a bit, not stuck on the pallet during the animation + no speedboost for the survivor to force him use the next pallet available. Nemesis is equally strong at shredding pallets as Bubba.
injure + infect at tier 3 makes sense as you have to build up to that point, but giving all the other effects for free? really? I mean he only needs 2 hits on separate survivors to reach tier 2, its not like he stays useless like a myers until he first reaches tier 2. even with the one addon for more progress on survivor infection, the first survivor hit 3 times is enough to reach tier 2
Remember when that boon came out that said it gives you 2% speed? Every survivor main said - nobody cares it's 2% speed.
When you play against PH you can choose to never become tormented. When you are good at dodging you can almost always dodge a whip attack from Nemesis or waste so much time that it was not worth it.
-"but giving all the other effects for free? really?"
Nurse and Blight are the strongest killers in the game with no buildup required. They are the killers that should have buildup. Make Blight start with 3 stacks and give him +1 every time he does a bounce rush and hits someone. That would be a huge nerf to a killer that is what most people call : way too strong.
Likewise make the Nurse hit people 6 times with a single blink before she ever gets access to a second blink. That too would nerf her significantly.
-"its not like he stays useless like a myers until he first reaches tier 2"
But here you are saying yea Nemesis would be a problem if he got buffed. No he wouldn't. The Zombie aspect of Nemesis's power is a joke. Overall that part of the power does something useful about one in five games when you consider all the giant maps and maps where the zombies repeatedly get stuck. If Off the record didn't or Sprint Burst didn't work 20% of the time there would be a patch fixing it within one week
If you take this one addon then Killer XYZ can have an ok game. Ok well do you not see the problem with that? Nemesis isn't Nurse; if you need an addon to make his power accessible then that should probably just be a part of his base kit. See Ghostface and Legion rework ideas for why certain addons were removed and folded into the base kit.