Crowman
Crowman
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- Crowman
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@EvilSerje said:
Looking at comments, seems like only camping killers gathered here to defend this exploit.
Personally, I think it's a good idea to pause timer, survivor can kill himself on hook if he wants. While playing killer this timer stop won't affect me anyway, but when I have to play survivor, its neverending cycle CAMPER-CAMPER-TUNELLER-NURSE-DC-CAMPER-CAMPER.
Also for some reason, most campers are slap you on hook for no reason and nod fervently like imbeciles. And all of them will always would have NOED.
Depiping 9 times of 10, being last survivor in first few minutes (quicker than being in the lobby), that's very fun and healthy for the game. No wonder that only SWF and professional streamers are staying (which all those killer-players whine about).
So no, I think it's a GREAT idea with having at least a timer stop. Not seeing how it can affect killer that play normally and apply pressure over all survivors.
Nothing is being exploited. The devs themselves have said camping is a legit strategy. And I'm not sure why you would want to be forced to stay on hook longer with no ability to let yourself die since that's all pausing the timer would do.
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@kenai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2993698#Comment_2993698
First of all, i never said that my mentioned ideas are perfect the way they are. But its something people could inspire of. Secondly, you already can't do nothing when you're hooked besides waiting or trying to go for self escapes, so theres not a big difference in that anyways.
This may not be the best idea, but it's always something you could work on with. For example, let's say the timer won't stop, but there could be a barrier within a certain range of the hooked survivor, which the killer can't pass through. This is also a way of stopping camping, and these are just basic ideas. Im already thankful if the devs can grap on ideas like this and try to add a similiar feature for the game, which has the same solution for the problem. At the end of the day, it' s all about finding a solution for this problem.
The thing is that currently you will at least die in 2 minutes (or faster if you attempt to escape and let yourself die). With the propose change of making the timer pause you can't even ######### since the 2nd state skill checks do not happen when the timer is paused and the killer can literally just grief you by staying by the hook.
If the problem is killers camping you, your "solution" is making the problem worse for yourself.
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Stealth killers might not be meta, but I don't see a good reason to remove them from the game.
Some people like stealth killer gameplay more.
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@Bot_Salvo88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2994082#Comment_2994082
if they want they can prevent you from getting any hook. Just be annoying by walking on top of them when they're downed. They get super annoyed by that, trust me. I did it multiple times and everyone said "nice gameplay" and I reply with "you asked for it" and they insult me and so on... If they insult you it means you played definetly better than them in most cases
I had this match earlier this week trying out Dredge and got a 4 man group sending me to RPD and one of them was trying to sabo and running boil over. Needless to say they didn't like that I slugged them to death (one guy even d/c, but still stayed for end game chat).
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So your solution to fix camping is make it so you have to wait until your teammates finish the gens and leave and you don't get to do anything the entire time because the timer is paused.
I guess you really like being stuck on a hook doing nothing.
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So don't kick the pallet against a survivor holding a flashlight then
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@Audiophile said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2992941#Comment_2992941
Seriously guys… come up with a better quip than “survivors are entitled”. What we’re entitled to, what we’re ALL entitled to, is a FAIR GAME.You can keep avoiding the facts of my post all you want…. But you know I’m right. I’m not saying the killer should stand still and let survivors farm. And you’re being disingenuous just to argue with me if you think I am. Farming is MUTUAL. Killer gets points. Survivors get points. It’s even. And saying, “hey, killers don’t like DC’s either…..” and then acting like you can’t do anything about it but slaughter the 3 man team is also disingenuous. You can show sportsmanship and let everyone who got screwed by the DC get points or you can be unsportsmanlike and slaughter the 3 man in your way too easy game. The fact that 95% of the time killers choose to be unsportsmanlike speaks VOLUMES about this game. Talk about entitled? Sure sounds like killers feel entitled to that free game….
I didn't say survivors are entitled. I said you were being entitled.
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@Audiophile said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2992909#Comment_2992909
You’re missing the point. I report the DC as unsportsmanlike too. But the new reality is 4 people (killer included) are in an unfair game through no fault of their own and only one player, the killer, has the ability to remedy the situation and make it fair. Choosing to recognize the unfair situation and make it an equal experience for everyone is sportsmanlike. Choosing to slaughter 3 other players that are at a massive disadvantage is unsportsmanlike. That’s just the fact.
You dont fix the DC situation by making the penalty harsher. People will always DC and/or suicide on hook. Recognize the reality that survivors will often quit and ruin a game and create this situation. They need to allow the survivors to surrender. If a DC happened and I could hit surrender and take 0 points and and give the killer 20k i would. If they made it a vote where all the survivors have to agree to leave, fine. Something, anything would be better than forcing us to play an unwinnable match. It’s frankly just cruel but they don’t care. What? Make the poor killer get in the same boat you’re stuck in? Heavens no!… lol. Best to just let them run roughshod over you guys so he’s happy.
So you don't want to punish d/cers more despite them being the actual issue and just want to blame killers for not giving you a free game.
This is some real entitlement you have.
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The killer is just playing the game and you are getting mad at them instead of your teammates d/cing.
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5 seconds is pretty unreasonable for a cd on flashlights.
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@Brokenbones said:
I don't think he needs any nerfs personally but if I had to nerf the tunnelling potential, all I'd do is make the entity blocked lockers have a small lingering effect after an unhook. It wouldn't need to be super long, only like 5 seconds or so. This would give the unhooked person a chance to get to safety
There already is a lingering effect. From personal experience, it takes about a second before you can teleport to the lockers blocked by being close to a hooked survivor. Then if it's not nightfall, the travel time takes a few seconds to arrive as is. There's already plenty of time for a hooked survivor to leave the area.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2992221#Comment_2992221
It's an anti-looping ability, so canceling bloodlust kind of defeats the purpose of it.
Considering other anti-loop abilities do reset bloodlust when the power button is used, this is not a valid point.
Huntresses do not get to keep their bloodlust when pulling out hatchets. Billys/Leatherfaces do not get to keep bloodlust pulling out their chainsaw. Nurse doesn't keep bloodlust charging her blinks. Etc.
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@Thr_ust said:
Dredge is fine. Give it a couple weeks before we start asking for nerfs. I remember people thought nemesis was A tier when he first came out ffs.
I largely agree, but I do think him channeling the remnant should cancel bloodlust. Every other killer power resets bloodlust when used so it's just an inconsistency with his power that I would like to see fixed.
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No. If the hatch has spawned than the killer is likely in a winning situation and if they want to wait on top of hatch for you to get close then that is a valid choice. You can always just do gens to force them to have to do something.
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Sometimes I don't get BHVR's design decisions. The perk is already plagued with a lot of restrictions and then on top of that survivors simply get told that if they vault a pallet it'll break.
DS and Power Struggle don't appear before the stun happens. This perk should be like that. Tell the survivors that the reason the pallet broke was because of that perk after they vault not before.
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This pretty happens every time bvhr releases a new map or updates an old map. Doesn't feel like their major concern is optimization.
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I'm not sure why people are disagreeing with changing this.
Having killers bloodlust you around pallets is already kind of annoying, but at the very least it means they can't use their power or they reset the bloodlust timer. Dredge gets to ignore this since he can keep channeling his power and never lose bloodlust. Which means that even when you are forced to run away from the tile, Dredge might already be moving faster due to bloodlust so you can't even punish his bad use of his power.
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@Ohnoes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2990836#Comment_2990836
You make it sound like there isn't a locker at just about everywhere important or that 12 seconds is a long time for a teleport compared to the time everything else takes for actions or the fact that's multiple times in a single chase; along with the option to set one to shut down a loop.
There's plenty of maps that have gens that spawn in tiles with no nearby locker spawns.
Garden of Joy has a few. Shelter Woods practically spawns no lockers as it is.
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If could you see the killer during nightfall, nightfall would be absolutely pointless. Plus it's really not that hard to navigate the map during nightfall.
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This isn't really an issue with his power as much as it's an issue with soloq in general. There's plenty of survivors who will just hide the minute they hear the TR or lullaby.
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His anti loop ability requires skill to use effectively. It's not like you can just place the renmant and teleport back for a free hit.
First you have to zone the survivor into a spot where they just can't simply run away.
Second you need to plan how you want the survivor to run into your renmant and looking in that direction when you start the channel do you teleport back facing that direction. This changes if you use the addon to make it so you teleport back and keep facing the direction you were, but honestly I don't see that addon being good.
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@Shooby said:
BHVR's reasoning for nerfing Pyramid Head's Rites of Judgement fake into M1 by giving it a cooldown was because they said it was a lose-lose situation for survivors, and they were spot on. Currently, Dredge is the same way. He suffers no downsides for using his power, whatsoever. Giving him hindered movement speed by teleporting back to his husk should be the first change to his kit, and should be implemented in the Mid-Chapter patch.
The difference is that Pyramid Head can hit through pallets and vaults, Dredge cannot. Also Dredge has no range.
Dredge doesn't need more slowdown as if he messes it up then he's on the otherside of a loop with his power recharging and his recharge outside of nightfall is pretty long.
Not to mention he's slower than survivors while channeling so if you see him place a remnant you can just leave the tile.
If the Dredge is forcing you to play the tile against his remnant and placed the remnant correctly so he's looking at you when he teleports back then you were outplayed.
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Yes and No.
It really depends on the map. There plenty of maps in the game that have deadzones of lockers meaning the value you get from the perk can vary a lot. I've had plenty of games where I open a locker at the start and see no one, because the map is something Yamako Estate, Garden of Joy, or Red Forest where plenty of tiles simply don't have lockers.
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@Nefer90 said:
You can easily have a map control on saloon as killer. It's a 70/30 killer sided imho . There are no infinites and tons of useless pallets. Plus the map Is super small and hooks are really close to each other, especially on the center. So with this "scourge-deadmanswitch" meta you won't have any problem to play as killer. Then there Is genrush,but it's another story.
I think the map is more 50/50 rather than your estimate of 70/30. It really comes down to which side plays the map better since the map has strong things for both sides and it's a matter of who presses the advantage better.
My experience is that usually saloon gen popping early results in the killer winning and saloon being saved for last usually results in survivors escaping. Well that or the killer plays too much around the saloon.
Since the saloon and the houses are pretty good areas for the survivor as they offer good pallets and good vaults (even with broken walls). The map being small and the other part of the map having no vaults gives the killer something to work to build up there pressure. It's oddly one of the more balanced maps in the game and that's really saying something about the rest of the maps in dbd.
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It's pretty entitled to think that other teammates should risk their escape just to save you, especially when the system itself doesn't reward you for doing so.
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Starstruck inflicts expose, so it's hard for the perk to not warn survivors ahead of time.
But dissolution makes no sense to debuff survivors before the perk has even done anything.
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They can only lock each locker once. If they go around pre-locking every locker, then you can just break the locks. Considering that most lockers spawn in groups, you teleport to 1 and now you can disarm all the locked lockers in that area.
I get it being annoying, but it's also a new interaction with the killer and many survivors are just doing it because it's new.
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I saved this image which showcases ranges
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2988442#Comment_2988442
In the ptb didn't they make It so you can't teleport to hooked survivors?
Yes but the range is quite small for the lockers that are blocked.
Depending on where you hook the nearest lockers might not even get blocked and with basement you can often still teleport to the lockers on the floor above.
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They added some new lockers to a few tiles, but there are still some maps that have deadzone areas with no lockers. Really noticeable when you can't teleport to half the gens on some maps.
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Killers shouldn't be punished in anyway for being around a hooked survivor. Defending hooks is completely valid and is often quite needed to build pressure against strong survivor teams.
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@Babalonkie said:
Anyways, i have done the compulsory "Notify the developers" and am moving on until/if addressed. This thread is a statement, not a debate for me.
If i go blind in a match... just remember... "i will not play a game blind"... no if's... no but's.
He's been out for a few hours. Give a few days at the very least and get used to facing the ability before knee jerking about how it's so impossible to deal with.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
Why not just send survivor far away like a pyramid heads cage ? Only for first hook and adjust gen repair speed to compensate ?
I don't understand people defending facecamp it's by far the most unhealthy thing in this game, yes it's bad against swf but it just works against 4 randoms, you facecamp your very first hook and win games like this it's pathetic and totally ruin someone's game
Because picking the hook you want the survivor on is important for pressure building. Having a survivor inside a 3 gen area you are defending is huge compared to just sending the survivor right next to teammates so they can get unhooked immediately.
And fixing face camping is a tough issue, because camping is a completely valid strategy and forcing a survivor into the next hook state can be an optimal move.
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Trickster is one of the weakest killers in the game already. He hardly needs nerfs.
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Personally I don't like preventing killers from using their powers just because of hook proximity it just feels bad when survivors are near the hook and you can no longer use your power to defend the unhook.
Things like PH trail disappearing after a short duration due to hook proximity I find to be okay, because it doesn't make the killer feel bad to play in a specific situation.
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Ultimately there's no reward for risking your own life in the end game to save someone else and since mmr only cares about whether you escaped or died and no other context then it just makes sense to escape to hopefully keep getting good teammates.
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@catnipthegreat said:
report it. ban me. whatever lol. nothing constructive ever happens here anyway.
So basically because people are explaining to you why it's not hostage holding while not really defending the behavior, suddenly nothing constructive happens.
You just need to get off your high horse. The devs have made it clear that slugging survivors on the ground is not hostage taking.
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@catnipthegreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2985503#Comment_2985503
but why should I or anyone have to wait 4 minutes of watching my character whine and bleed on the ground?
why is that ok?? yes it will end eventually... but that's just really toxic behavior.
go off though defending it. this is why so many people are quitting.. everybody is supposed to be playing the game to enjoy themselves.. but instead, we have to be jerks to each other and make things -unnecessarily miserable-
I have played this game for years.. and it didnt used to be like this. just so remorselessly toxic and people dont even think there is anything wrong with it.
You keep going on the assumption I'm defending the behavior and not correcting the fact you are calling something hostage holding when it isn't.
Also you have no way to connect a few killers slugging all 4 survivors and letting them bleed out with player count on steam dropping. There's many things that have happened since the player count has started to drop that could be the source of the issue. Your personal frustrations are not necessarily the reason for a mass exodus from the game.
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@DrDeepwound said:
There is also a difference between "holding the game hostage" and "holding player hostage"
Couple nights ago I was blocked in a corner for 10 minutes by a Wraith until end of match, thats holding someone hostage
Holding the "game" hostage is a term from the old days before we had end game collapse and Claudette would crouch walk around edge of swamp for 45 minutes.
However, devs have repeatedly stated slugging is not because there is a timer for it.
The devs have done a good job at making it nearly impossible for any player to hold the game or someone else hostage. The only way that currently exists is a killer blocking you in an area you can't leave from and then just standing there doing nothing. Everything else has a set end.
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@catnipthegreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2985495#Comment_2985495
words- read again.
it is totally holding someone hostage if you slug them and make them wait out the entire bleed time.
cool though that you think thats ok. as if I should be surprised.
You are not being held hostage being left on the ground to bleed out. You will die allowing you to move on to the next game.
And I never said it was okay.
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@catnipthegreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2985482#Comment_2985482
it is totally holding someone hostage if you slug them and make them wait out the entire bleed time. absolutely no question about it.
I have had killers do this to entire teams, all 4 people. everybody just lies there until they finally die. it's terrible, it feels terrible, and it's 100% mega toxic behavior.
That's not what holding the game hostage means. You being slugged on the ground will still cause the game to end as you will eventually die.
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The mori update will make it so the killer auto moris the last survivor when they are in dying state.
But it's really not holding the game hostage since you will eventually die.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2985160#Comment_2985160
Thanks for the clarification, you did though miss this line
- -10 points: deducted from all Survivors when any Survivor is hooked (refunded if the hooked Survivor dies within 10 seconds)
- 10 points: awarded to all Survivors when any Survivor is unhooked
That’s the section I’m referring to.
I didn't miss it. Your post was saying you only get refunded for unhooks and no actual gain. And you are still wrong that you get more points for healing because safe unhooks award 20 whereas a full health state heal is 10.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2985115#Comment_2985115
- You can always see a slugged survivor too unless the killer is using a corresponding perk. That’s not that different
- Killers can camp the areas hooks are in too. In fact camping hooks might be easier since the survivor can’t move around to, say, crawl under a pallet. Borrowed time protects a bit on a hook but certainly doesn’t prevent a hook trade from happening. And if the killer is simply actually standing around face camping a slugged survivor that takes even long for them to die than if they’re on a hook so face camping a slug isn’t really a viable strategy except in corner cases.
- For reference, Altruism is the old name, it’s now called the Benevolent emblem. And you actually get the most points in that Emblem from healing other survivors, not unhooking them. Unhooking survivors is actually just refunding the points you lost when they got hooked initially. For example, all survivors lose 10 points toward Benevolence when a survivor is Hooked the first time, but they get those 10 points back when they’re unhooked. It’s the healing from dying and injured states that raises your Benevolence.
You are wrong on the emblem thing. Any unhook gives back the points loss for being on hook, but specfically safe unhooks award points.
From wiki:
20 points: awarded to the Survivor who performed the Unhook action if the unhooked Survivors is not downed within 10 seconds post-rescue
You also lose points if they go down within 10 seconds.
But it's 20 for safe unhook vs 10 for a full heal.
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Sometimes defending killers just need to defend the hook. Punishing killers for camping is not a good solution because the killer at the end of the day is trying to kill you and sometimes that means forcing your death on the hook.
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Idk why you felt the need to go into someone's steam just to antagonize them for how they decided to play.
There's nothing wrong with slugging everyone for the 4k and slugging inheritly is a lot more risky since slugging to death is slower and it's easier to rescue a slug vs hooked survivor.
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With mmr considering you dying for any reason a loss there's no real incentive to do end game saves.
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@ProfSinful said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2980420#Comment_2980420
I solely agree with the Tombstone Piece statement. The addon is completely unreasonable and tbh, you shouldn't be able to mori more than one survivor using it (I've managed to mori 3 with tombstone piece). Perma t3 on the other hand, while powerful, doesn't outright end someone's ability to play the game. It doesn't do anything that could ever really be problematic in a relevant way (the best argument is facecamping, but I counter that with bubba and trickster).
Myers being able to reach perma t3 solely stalking 1 survivor wouldn't be healthly.
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Idk why people take tier list placements for their favorite killer so personally.
Myers is just a weaker than average killer when we compare all the killers together. Yes Tomestone Piece is broken, but that doesn't really change Myers without it.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2983406#Comment_2983406
It 100% needs to be nerfed. It's incredibly unfun to go against, and it takes pretty much no skill.
The fair and skillful gameplay should be made a bit more viable, but camping definitely needs to be nerfed hard. It's just not healthy for a game to have the most skillless and unfun strategy to sometimes be the best strategy there is.
Something being unfun to play against is not a good reason to nerf it.