Crowman
Crowman
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@feffrey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388575#Comment_3388575
A good killer doesn't need to tunnel because they're confident in their ability to capitalize on survivors mistake and actions turning it around to benefit them instead of taking the easy way out and tunneling/camping the first person you see out the game.
When I played Ghostface/Plague all I did was force 3 gens patrol gens I wanted to keep didn't bother with the ones I knew I was going to lose. Survivors tend to do inner gens first so force them to do the outer ones first.
At least this way you can defend hooks and gens at the same time don't chase every survivor you see stick to your gens eventually one of you will break
Whether or not they need to tunnel or not is irrelevant as a good killer can still tunnel in situations where it is advantageous to do so. The idea that any killer who tunnels is bad only exists to shame killers to play worse so it's easier for survivors.
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@FatallyIconic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388558#Comment_3388558
It's not about it being "easier". Killers can still win fairly easily and make it hard on the survivors if they actually become good at the game. This should be encouraged. The same goes for survivors too. Where is the skill when the killer intentionally hooks the survivor in a dead zone, and focuses and tunnels them out early, ensuring a win? This happens a lot with little counter other than SWF. However, most survivor players are solo, and these are the people who mostly have an issue with tunnelling AKA. the majority of the playerbase. SWF teams rarely complain because they can strategize and make constant callouts.
You're just making up what you consider a "good killer" to be and forcing your views on to your opponent so they play in a way you prefer.
That's not how pvp games work. A good killer can still tunnel out a survivor at the start, because they took advantage of the situation that let them quickly remove someone. No one is less skilled because they understand how to leverage an advantage and use it. Intentionally handicapping yourself does not make you any better than people who do not.
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@FatallyIconic said:
Yet, on average killer will still get a very high win rate whether they tunnel or not. See OTZ's recent experiment. Tunnelling is not the only viable strategy to achieve a win. It is, however, the easiest strategy, the most unhealthy one for the game at that. as i have said before. If you want to play a competitive game, you should be ready to face the challenge and not just rely on cheap tactics. It is fun for everyone that way. And this applies to both sides.
Yet, even if a killer doesn't tunnel, they can still achieve a very high win rate on average, as demonstrated in OTZ's recent experiment. While tunneling may be an effective strategy, it's also the easiest to do and most detrimental to the game's health. Rather than resorting to tunnelling, killers should be motivated to master their chosen killer and continually improve their skills in the game. It's much more satisfying to master your killer and constantly improve your skills, rather than taking the easy way out.
Tunnelling effectively turns the match into a one-sided, easy mode, which ultimately detracts from the overall experience. When a survivor is tunnelled out early on, typically around 4-5 generators, the game becomes essentially unwinnable for them, which puts the killer in an unfair advantage. To truly enjoy a competitive game, players should embrace the challenge and avoid relying on cheap tactics. This approach benefits everyone, regardless of which side you're on.
Don't expect your opponent to play in a way that is easier for you. The idea that you should play less optimally in order to better enjoy your game doesn't make any sense. Especially when this is rarely reflected back at survivors and used solely to shame killers for playing to win.
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@FatallyIconic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388509#Comment_3388509
This game is not like other PvP games. It is an asymmetrical game, which can make it easier for the killer to target one specific survivor (you know, a real person with emotions and stuff). Similarly, a group of four survivors can troll and make the experience unpleasant for the killer. While I believe the developers have a responsibility to address these issues, it is equally important for players to act with respect and avoid being completely disrespectful towards others who are simply trying to enjoy the game.
It's crucial that players approach these situations with a positive attitude and treat others with the same respect they would like to receive themselves. At the end of the day, we're all here to have a good time and chill out. And the key to making that happen is creating a positive vibe for everyone. So let's keep that in mind and make it happen.
It's a game. Killers tunneling out survivors is not done because of some malice intent towards you. It's done, because the game does not reward killers for spreading out hooks. Getting mad at your opponent for playing the game in the best way to ensure their own victory is just weird. Especially when survivors often don't play less optimally to make sure the killer has an enjoyable match.
It's a weird double standard that people keep pushing on the killer as if it's the killer's responsibility to make sure every survivor has just the right amount of chase and gen time.
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@FatallyIconic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388499#Comment_3388499
I don't agree with this. Purposefully ruining someone's gaming experience is never justified, regardless of subjective opinions of what's fun. Both sides can compromise and find solutions that benefit everyone. It's wrong to dismiss the negative impact of gameplay strategies that cause frustration and make the game unenjoyable for others.
You are playing a pvp game where your opponent's primary goal is removing you from the game. Sometimes you'll have games you don't find very fun, because the killer's goal and your goal are opposites.
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It's just the cycle.
People have gotten used to the current meta and now the devs are changing that. People don't want to adapt to a new meta, they just wanted the game to be easier for them. It's the same thing that happened with 6.1 and the mass raging quitting protest survivors did the first week. Eventually people figured out what was good and what was bad and then people started to complain about the stuff that was still good which the devs are now addressing.
People will adapt to the changes and find new things to complain about and then when the devs tackle the new complaints, the cycle begins anew.
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A lot killers when they are blind are unable to use their power. So you still have flashlight interactions.
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I believe the devs changed sound modifiers to be multiplicative from additive a while back. So if they stack you would have 25% volume multiplied by 75% reduction for 18.75% volume.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I've never been able to figure out her damn powers
If the survivor is close enough, the birbs are supposed to damage them. But they never seem to do that. If the person has birbs above their head, the power always seems to take so long to recharge that I don't have a chance to hit them again before they clear them from their head.
I'm sure it's a "ME" problem rather than birb lady but I get frustrated playing as her as it seems all so wildly inconsistent for me
Also, birb
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/O3AK9E8HQ3U8/pxl-20230330-153246336.jpg
If the birds collide with a wall, they turn into a swarm and no longer do direct damage. Some tiles have deceptive collision so while it can look like you have line of sight for the damage, you actually don't.
You can't fire more than 1 bird in order to have enough time to recharge and follow up with another strike. Firing 1 Crow is a 5 second CD and it takes 8 seconds to repel. Firing 2 Crows is 9 seconds cd. Though it takes like a second to place the crow and then fire so the window is very small.
You can also fire multiple crows, but offset them so they land about 1 second apart so you can instantly damage survivor as the invincibility after being hit by a swarm is 0.75 seconds.
She requires quite of a bit of precise to excel with.
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She's a deceptively difficult killer that doesn't perform better than killers like Nurse or Blight.
Knight has challenges for the current rift. Skull Merchant is new and her power is pretty straightforward so she's not difficult to figure out.
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@ironblade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3386444#Comment_3386444
That's very interesting but wouldn't hiding the red stain negatively impact Solo Q more since Blindness already has a lot going on versus solo players with aura perks such as bond, kindred, etc?
Hiding the red stain would effect everyone equally for the most part. A SWF could still the same info found on the HUD whereas it's much harder for a SWF to share the same info the red stain gives a player in chase.
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If blindness were to get a buff, I would like to see it remove the killer's red stain from the blind survivor. It would give it a bit of power in a chase.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384188#Comment_3384188
Yes they do get something it's just not rewarded in the game. Like feeling you really won because of your skill and not because you used the best and easiest strat. But spreading hooks is not always worth it because survivors can just tunnel generators.
Still the hard tunneling only focusing on one survivor is not often that good idea because that leaves other 3 working on generators uninterrupted so that can be heavely punished. It's important to still know when to tunnel.
But tunneling is like full swf playing the game on easy mode both should be nerfed. I like normal mode spreadind few hooks and cause pressure and take someone out more natural way.
This is such a lame mindset. You aren't less skilled, because you took advantage of the opponent's mistakes to capitalize yourself on an advantage. You don't have to hard tunnel the first survivor you find in order to not spread hooks. You can even generate enough pressure to force a survivor to end up in second state on some maps like Azarov's.
Forcing yourself to hook everyone equally over some pride does not actually make you more skillful. As it means you are giving up your own advantage instead of making use of it.
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Are we really complaining about autodidact? It doesn't work on self-healing so you can't boost your own healing and you are still at the mercy of skillchecks.
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I don't think it needs to be changed. It has a niche and there are challenges for escaping via hatch.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385088#Comment_3385088
The person on hook still can't do anything, and if the Survivors intentionally leave them on hook, they run the risk of 2 people on hook in a death spiraling match loss. So it would only prevent camping from the onset being valuable, not juicing the last seconds from greeding gensb4frens. Especially since with the healing timers they are forced to take longer healing.
Most chases should be lasting longer than a single hook state. If your team is going down in 30 seconds or less, that's a skill issue. Increasing the hook timer will decrease hook pressure overall and this will matter at skill levels where people don't just go down when they get spotted by the killer.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3385082#Comment_3385082
Why do you think hook timer changes would be a buff? Altering hook timers would only hurt campers, and even further incentivize chases, as you can't hover at hook permanently to guarantee a kill. It reaches all the same desired goals as healing changes.
Buffing hook timers means hooks provide less pressure overall. Even if the killer isn't camping, hooks on the opposite side of the map become less impactful since survivors have more time to get there. Gens can pop before getting the unhook, because there's less rush to do so before the next hook state.
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Or we could see the actual effects of the healing changes instead of asking for other buffs as "compensation". If it turns out healing was overnerfed, then you can either tone back the nerf or buff other areas of the game. Nerfs don't need to be followed by compensation buffs.
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We got 6.1 almost a year ago. We've gotten some adjustments in previous midchapters. Now we're seeing more significant core gameplay changes in 6.7.
At the very least, the devs are showing they are starting to focus on making gameplay changes whereas the previous few years were lacking.
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The healing changes haven't gone live, so there's no rise of anything due to them yet.
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I would rather we don't reactionary buff CoH and let the nerf sit for a chapter cycle at least.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384719#Comment_3384719
i am fine with the other killers i mean leather face wears peoples skins (and then was censored when those face masks were used for other things) but freddy is not culturally sensitive and sends out the wrong representation about dead by daylight to other videogame communities
No one is making the assumption about the culture of DBD''s playerbase, because of Freddy's lore.
Horror is not sunshines and rainbows.
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So fictional characters being murderers is fine. But how dare they do anything else besides murder.
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It already is. Killers get nothing out of spreading hooks.
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It was a requested feature that the community wanted, because a small minority of people who play this game will go out of their way to harass other players.
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Tbh, it was less that those perks were around and more that CoH didn't exist yet. Not to mention bbq still gave bonus bp.
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@foodie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3384037#Comment_3384037
So instead of getting the correct and best changes we can for our main killer, we need to just accept the facts and hope the devs don't take 5 years to update the killer again. If we can get the changes the killer needs now, why shouldn't we? Why would we need to have the killer broken for months or years instead of the change being done right from the get go?
The healing changes are for every killer's benefit, except that Hag is accompanied by a nerf to her counterable power.
The ptb hasn't even gone live for you to have given the changes a try and acting like these changes are going to completely break hag has no merit. It's clear you have no intention of being reasonable so I'm not going to engage any further.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379570#Comment_3379570
Lets be real now...do you HONESTLY think they'd even touch Hag? They refuse to change anything about her and have for years, this nerf is simply to reduce her pickrate further so they can completely ignore her.
The devs are slow, but they do eventually get around to making adjustments to things that need it. While I get this might not be ideal for hag players, we don't actually know how well hag will perform with these changes since the ptb is also coming with healing nerfs. It's possible this change ends up being power neutral or even a net buff, because of other changes coming.
If hag was the only thing getting changed, then compensation buffs would be warranted, but it's not.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383535#Comment_3383535
The way the nerf works means the survivors are punished if lots of them bring it. Only one person can unhook someone, so mutltiple DH users will be stepping on each other toes. It's the same reason Deliverance isn't more popular despite being busted good.
To be fair, Deliverance is also a 1 time use on your first hook. You can still unhook someone after being the first one hooked and able to use Dead Hard. So while multiple survivors bringing dead hard will conflict with each other, it's a bit more forgiving than Deliverance.
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Solely buffing weaker stuff is a problem too. Imagine if the devs have never nerfed anything, we would have to buff things to the power level of old Moris where the killer could kill you instantly on your first down as their was no hook requirement.
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@Pink_Ronin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3383163#Comment_3383163
I mean we all lose mindgames from time to time. My point is red stain is in the game to serve a purpose and moonwalking is a player-created strategy unintended by the devs that directly negates it.
Unintended based on what? Killers moonwalking to mindgame their red stain has been going on for years. The devs have never said that it's unintended nor have they made any changes to the red stain to help prevent this.
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My understanding is you lost a mindgame against a killer and instead of improving your own game, you want the devs to remove skill expression from the killer.
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The changes are going on the ptb first and the devs have made adjustments to things on the ptb going live in the past. Maybe let's not scream the sky is falling just yet.
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@Kimdinhold said:
Dead hard is buff and nerf.
Dead Hard will deactivate when it successfully protects the user from damage.
So now you can spam E after safely unhooking a survivor, New dead hard will not deactivate if you fail.
You are still exhausted. So no you can't spam it. All this means is the failing to use dead hard won't punish you by having you have to unhook someone to try again later.
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I don't know if I would say it truly encouraged chases. The killer has 4 scourge hooks. If you want constant value of the perk, you want to stick close to your scourge hooks. Chasing a survivor away from your scourge hooks wouldn't make any sense.
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I wouldn't be against changing nemesis zombies to not be affected by flashlights and doing something else. But at the same time, zombies are not hard to deal with without a flashlight so I don't see this as a big deal right now.
Removing lightburn and giving hag more basekit counterplay were needed changes compared to the zombies and flashlights.
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If survivors taking longer to heal does make Oni problematic, you wouldn't need a total rework to fix it. You can just increase the frequency of blood orb drops or reduce the amount of blood orbs dropped.
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I think leaving negative reviews before even trying the changes is weird.
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Just because blight isn't getting changes this mid chapter doesn't mean blight isn't on the radar for some. If you at look the unused addon buffs they are just small number buffs. While they won't change why the addons weren't used, they are simple to do compared to full addon reworks. This mid chapter has quite a bit of stuff to it so it's reasonable that the devs aren't going to address everything in a single mid chapter.
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People have been complaining about how survivor is so unplayable for years now and the game is doing fine.
It's hard to take these claims seriously when it's always a minority being reactionary to any change
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These aren't equivalent things
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They cater to killers so much that they nuked the top gen regression perks
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As long as the reward for killing a survivor is better than spreading hooks around, then tunneling will always be the best strategy.
Tunneling will never be 100% removed, but if people actually want tunneling to not be the best option then the game needs to be rebalanced around not tunneling.
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@Sava18 said:
This isn't even a dbd specific thing. Things should be nerfed and buffed until they are out of the meta, not specifically because of popularity. There is a reason league is such a long standing and popular game. Please don't hit me with the "it's an assym bro" argument that is in itself irrelevant. The longer the game stagnates and doesn't do changes the more people will stop playing.
On the League comparison. League has some bad metas as well that people didn't like. But since Riot has constantly been changing things so nothing stays dominate for too long, the bad metas come and go.
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If you want global boons, then boons need to be destroyed as a base-kit feature instead of snuffed out.
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I would rather Nurse ends up too strong removing a specific perk/item from hard countering her causing her to receive nerfs to reduce her strength then keep a niche interaction that doesn't occur in most games.
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People have been asking for behavior to do more changes to shake up the meta
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Dead Hard didn't encourage tunneling anymore than other strong perks. What encourages tunneling is the fact that spreading hooks is not rewarded for the killer. There's simply no reason for a killer to not tunnel someone out early.
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Shadow Step will likely be the best boon now. It has uses aggressively at hiding scratch marks in strong tiles forcing the killer to have to snuff the boon out. Or defensively as to block the aura so you can heal or finish a gen without being revealed.
That said, boons being overall bad is just an outcome of boons being poorly designed from the start. AoE infinite use perks were going to have to be made weak in order for them to be fair.
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It's an extra health state with no real condition attached and it could be used in theory an infinite amount of times. Compared to perks like MoM or the med-kit addon that provide additional hits, Dead Hard was clearly a bit too strong.
The nerf is deserved and it's better that Dead Hard is a more conditional for that extra hit as I doubt any survivor would want the perk gutted to the point that it barely functions as an extra hit.