Crowman
Crowman
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@randonly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395200#Comment_3395200
valid strategy yes, but that should not be encouraged, even more when used to the extreme, requiring perks and team with comms to counteract these game design exploits.
In the best of analogies, you as a killer won't want to be supervisor of popping gens just because you didn't come prepared with the correct perks against swf gen-rush build + bnps
Until the devs rework the game in a way where these strategies are non-functional, you would have a point about nerfing STBFL.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395195#Comment_3395195
Uh, yeah, they are problems actually, don't really know where you got that from. Them being rewarded by the current balance of dbd is in fact like the entire problem. I don't get what you're saying here unless you think tunneling and camping really should stay meta strategies in which case I have no reason to listen to any of your points
Tunneling and camping have been in the game from the start. They are valid strategies that survivors need to get over. Killers are under no expectation to spread out hooks and not take advantage of any situation where they can get an early kill.
Asking for STBFL to be nerfed, because they can help aid tunneling and camping is a bad reason to nerf the perk.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395192#Comment_3395192
You can't do it on Freddy without STBFL. I'm not saying STBFL is the entirety of the problem but it very much does add to it. You could say the same about Bubba like "you don't need Bubba to tunnel or camp, you could just use STBFL" and all of a sudden Bubba is completely fine
Except tunneling and camping are not problems and are in fact rewarded by the current balance of dbd.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395187#Comment_3395187
Again, I never said that. Obviously it is problematic for bubba to be able to do that, but this post is about STBFL. I'm allowed to explain my problem with one thing without bringing up every other problematic thing believe it or not
Except all your points against STBFL can literally be done without it. There is nothing wrong with the perk, because as far as the current game balance of DBD goes, it's not doing anything you can't already do.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395168#Comment_3395168
But did I say those other killers aren't problematic? No, I didn't. And the time it takes to build up stbfl still doesn't warrant a guaranteed kill in the slightest
So it's not problematic for Leatherface to be able to facecamp any survivor on hook at ease due to his power.
But it is problematic that an M1 killer like Freddy has a slightly better chance to down a survivor going for the rescue with STBFL after having built up stacks in the beginning of the game.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395143#Comment_3395143
I like how my points for the perk being problematic don't matter just because you think it's fine and refuse to think otherwise lol
You're points are that it makes tunneling and camping easier ignoring that plenty of killers already do so without the perk and that you still have to stack up STBFL, because you spawn with 0 tokens.
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I like how anything you personally don't like is now considered "problematic" even though people have already explained how the perk is perfectly fine.
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You know what also misses the point. It's being called an "anti-tunnel" perk, but it's by far more effective if the killer doesn't tunnel the survivor straight off unhook.
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For the most part, boons have largely been balanced by being relatively bad perks overall. CoH on live is broken due to self-healing, but since that is getting removed it might not be worth using anymore. Shadow Step has always been decently balanced which means that there are better choices than it.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394167#Comment_3394167
Does that matter though? Like do you get hard games where you don't have an idea of the gen progression being made? Like if we go over a scenario where you get your first down and 1 gen already popped. You should have an idea of how many players were on that gen and if there is another gen that should have progress on it with that information. That game sense allows you to make the correct play on whether you pop that PR or not. The games where this isn't the case are game I already don't find to be very challenging in the first place.
I would also disagree that you don't lose a limited use on live. You should have the game in the bag at 9 PR hook. It's really more that the new effect is more punishing if it gets wasted. I think that's fair, but you should be able to have the game sense to know if it's a bad idea to pop that PR. Maybe this feels awful on live though since you might need to micro manage the perk more.
It does matter, because you are hard locked at 4 uses and losing 1 because a gen pop as you were in the hooking animation and no other gens had progress is a huge blow that at least doesn't matter as much on live because PR has up to 12 uses.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3393411#Comment_3393411
I mean isn't that true in the current game? I don't see games where PR procs do nothing to also be the games where I struggle. Those are the games where the players arn't glued to gens and a single gen being done means there are zero additional gens that have progress.
The thing is you don't lose a limited use on live in that scenario. PR procing when it damages no generators is going to hurt now, because that's a use gone.
Oppression works the same way where it goes on CD regardless if there were any other generator hit.
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Unlike old 4-5 blink nurse, she is force to go back to her starting position when she started to blink. Meaning you can easily get more distance from her original position. Old 4-5 blink nurse was still on top of you and the extra blinks made it impossible to ever avoid a hit.
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@Sylhiri said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394029#Comment_3394029
That's basically a carrot and stick way of balancing but without the stick. The rewards would have to be substantial to make it more appealing then tunneling a character out of the game early for a large advantage. This also doesn't do much for the gen speeds on the survivors side as a killer would be more liking to fall back on tunneling since it's low effort, high reward once they see three gens pop.
This change would be beneficial to players who already want to do 12 hooks but not to players who want to win as soon as possible. In my opinion.
I stated you would need a huge game redesign doing this. Ultimately I don't see the devs going this route as changing the game massively can just backfire. Seriously look at the response to the devs attempting to make a huge sweeping change to healing.
People will just need to accept that tunneling and camping are just valid ways to play.
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@C3Tooth said:
You dont. You're not supposed to get 4k every match.
I think the idea is to make it so that winning with 12 hooks is more common than winning with less than 12 hooks. Not to make it so every game is a win.
The only way you can realistically make 12 hooking for the 4K a reality is by first making each individual hook a killer earns grant some kind of bonus that stacks. You would also need to make sure the bonus is only awarded for spreading out hooks instead of just focusing out the first survivor. It would require a pretty huge game redesign as just adding a bonus to spreading out hooks itself could make killers too strong.
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I think the funniest part of trying to redesign Dead Hard as an anti-tunnel perk is that the perk is stronger if the killer doesn't tunnel unlike DS and OTR which often only give you any value if you do get tunnel.
Personally, I think trying to make DH an anti-tunnel perk is just a bad move. When it was for doing safe unhooks, it meant that after you unhook someone you then should play risky and go after the killer as now you have Dead Hard to soak an additional hit and give the person you just unhooked time to recover. Plus it fit better with David's perk since WGLF also triggers on safe hook saves.
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Residual Manifest. The blindness duration is just too short to really counter most aura reading perks.
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Dead Hard doesn't do anything if you are in deep wounds and upon getting unhooked you have endurance for 10 seconds. If you were to get hit before those 10 seconds are up, you get deep wounded and now Dead Hard doesn't do anything.
Personally, I think trying to design Dead Hard to be an anti-tunnel perk is a mistake., It was never used as an anti-tunnel perk and you still keep Dead Hard if you aren't tunneled. OTR is just a better dead hard with the current design of anti-tunnel as it's reliable, but only protects you against being tunneled.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392219#Comment_3392219
You complain because you can't freely tunnel now it work exactly how supposed to. You can even use all otr, ds and dh combo to make killer potentially lose game with tunneling.
Because someone can't dislike a change unless they are a tunneling killer. Good to know you'll never be a reasonable person to interact with.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3392219#Comment_3392219
I'd imagine that, unlike OTR, DH stays when doing a conspicious action. You can still run both when you use OTR as an anti-tunnel measure and DH as a regular chase perk.
At that point, it's not really an anti-tunnel perk since you aren't actually being tunneled. Dead Hard was never an "anti-tunnel" perk, so it's weird for the devs to try to balance it as one.
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The problem is that the devs have decided to turn Dead Hard into an anti-tunnel perk when it wasn't one before. Dead Hard already clashed with BT and OTR which are perks designed specifically to aid a survivor off hook. Not to mention I don't see why you would pick Dead Hard over OTR as you can't mess up OTR.
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Making Dead Hard trigger off hook imo just makes it worse than making it an altruistic perk like it was on the ptb. Because now it directly competes with OTR and you don't have to worry about missing the timing with OTR. Dead Hard didn't need to be an anti-tunnel perk.
Pain Res and CoH got number buffs they needed for their heavy nerfs, so that's fine. I still think it's worthwhile slowing down altruistic healing and I think full reverting that is kind of the wrong move. But at least med-kits are still nerfed.
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In the case of a healthy survivor rescuing a survivor off hook, it still makes sense to go after the unhooked survivor since with basekit BT and possibly OTR both the healthy survivor and unhooked survivor have the same amount of health states with the caveat that the unhooked survivor can't use dead hard while deep wounded.
Ultimately you can't fix tunneling without changing the game so that getting an early kill is worse than spreading hooks.
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It was too powerful on the ptb. The CD and active time didn't lead to situations where a survivor on hook wouldn't have the timer go down which is just not healthy for the game. Reassurance being a one time 30 second pause per a hook is fine, since it is still stackable.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391105#Comment_3391105
If a killer comes back to hook after the survivor gets unhooked, that is tunneling. If a killer camps once they have all the stacks they need to secure a kill with no counterplay, that is camping.
You specfically said that they get a hook and go off to get more stacks. You are basically saying that the perk promotes killers to not early game tunnel or camp in order to get 8 stacks.
I don't think you realize how slow building up 8 stacks from purely m1 hits is in the current meta. Especially when you have to ignore the obsession to not lose stacks and that's just asking for the obsession to start body blocking you.
Not to mention that there are already killers who can easily camp/tunnel the first survivor they find without needing to hit 8 m1s for a single perk.
The perk is literally not a problem.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391102#Comment_3391102
Like I said, its really not that hard to get stacks quick enough for it to make a big difference. You can very easily just get stacks off the first survivor, hook them, go get stacks off of other survivors, come back with 3-4 stacks (which does help a lot), get more stack(s) from tunneling them, etc. Unless you're up against an alpha swf this is indeed a problem
If a killer hooks the survivor and goes off to get more stacks, that's not camping or tunneling.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391099#Comment_3391099
You can start tunneling or camping once you have enough stacks, which can be gotten quickly enough to be significant pretty easily. And I'm aware many killers don't benefit from it but there's still many killers that DO, which has no reason to be ignored just because it isn't all of them. People really like to understate how much STBFL actually does
And most gens if not all should be done if the Killer is going around trying to stack up stbfl before committing to a camp or tunnel. Just because you apparently don't know how to hold m1 on a generator as a killer builds up the 8 stacks with purely m1 hits is not the fault of the perk.
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@1ettuce said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3391089#Comment_3391089
It is the 7th most used killer perk according to nightlight, which is not 100% accurate but accurate enough to say stbfl definitely is a frequently used perk. Many killers do benefit from it and the benefit it gives to camping and tunneling are undeniable, something which killers are doing very often lately and definitely isn't "not that common"
If a killer is tunneling or xamping a survivor out then they don't have many stacks. Especially if the Killer has a power that inflicts damage.
And yes many killers don't benefit from it. Nurse and blight shouldn't be landing many m1s and they are considered the best killers in the game. Leatherface and huntress are threatening campers due to their powers. Wesker is good at tunneling because of his infection.
People really love to overstate how much stbfl actually does.
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STBFL is fine. It's really not that common because many killers simply don't benefit much from it and sometimes you get games where the obsession is the easiest target.
It has situations where it is strong and that's fine because those situations don't really happen that often.
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I expect we'll see wraith complains and then he'll get hit with another nerf similiar to when he got basekit windstorm basekit and an addon pass.
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@Eelanos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390844#Comment_3390844
Wait it out? Hm...
Expose is a status effect that has a timer on it that survivors see on their screen. It is not the same as hoping the survivor in a chase presses e early.
Plus expose can be applied on survivors not currently in chase and the expose status duration isn't paused due to not being in chase either.
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@BougieBlackChick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390844#Comment_3390844
But they’re not limited. There may be cooldown periods for some things but there’s no hard limit to how many times a bubba or a billy can use their chainsaws to insta down in a match. There's no limit to how many times huntress can use her hatches in a match or trappers traps. So limiting DH to one use (and keep in mind this is one use no matter whether it works or not) doesn’t feel on the same level. And let’s not even get to Myers infinite tier 3.
Those are killer powers. Killer powers are generally stronger than any individual perk.
Look at perks like MYC or Starstruck that have very specfic conditions to apply a limited duration of expose on the survivor.
As for Huntress and Iri Head. I've never liked the addon, but it is at least very restricting to the huntress player by allowing them to only carry 1 single hatchet at a time and reloading after every single hatchet throw is a lot of wasted time.
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Majority of the expose status effects are conditional and their durations are limited. Meaning survivors can easily avoid the status condition or wait out the timer. Infact, this is stronger evidence for the upcoming DH nerf, because if killer ability to ignore health states are conditional and limited, then survivor ability to have a 3rd health state should also be conditional and limited. And Dead Hard is getting an actual condition to help limit the amount of times it can be used.
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@Blueberry said:
Honestly if anything I’d like to see them rework cherry blossom. Takes skill away and bypasses mechanics.
Cherry Blossom is just a badly designed addon. Taking away the scratch marks means very little when it tells you when you are right up against a survivor. On one hand, it's nice that they tried to give spirit addons that weren't just "% improvements", but it certainly fails at being an interesting addon.
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@roundpitt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390688#Comment_3390688
Killers will still do it, because there's no reward/perk/addon that you can give that is as powerful as removing 25% of the teams collective healing, gen progress, totem removal, etc. That was my opening argument.
Because they are another player with free will who can chose to do a tactic to win the game.
If you want to punish killers for doing their objective, then let's punish survivors everytime they do a gen. Give survivors stacking slowdown so they repair, heal, bless, cleanse, and even move slower for each gen done.
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@roundpitt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3390684#Comment_3390684
It's more so the killer get's punished for targeting one survivor and removing them as early as possible.
It's the killer's objective to kill survivors. Punishing them for doing so is the bad way.
If you truly want to tackle tunneling, suggest ways to reward killers for spreading hooks so that spreading out hooks become the favorable way to play.
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No.
I get it's not fun to be the first one out of a match, but that is the objective of the otherside. It makes no sense for the survivors to get a benefit for the killer accomplishing their objective.
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Some people might stop tunneling for a bit, but the healing changes still don't change the fact that killing a survivor is better than having multiple survivor hooked. Ultimately I don't think much will really change to a degree that it's noticeable.
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@Mechanix82 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3389591#Comment_3389591
i have been with this game for 3 years I promise you this is different. this game is dead without survivors
This wouldn't be the first time people have said the game will die, because all survivors are going to leave.
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People have been saying this for years and the game is just fine.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3389499#Comment_3389499
Since when this is in the game?
It's been in for a couple patches now. Idk when exactly it was added.
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It's his power icon. It's to show how long you can't use pallets or vaults.
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@Elik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3389468#Comment_3389468
yes, I know that ruin wont regress blocked gens but jolt will with its immediate removal but I've heard multiple times it also doesnt work with pain res while blocked by deadlock or am I just stupid?
Considering we've had countless bugs with blocked gens and regression, it could just be bugged.
But at least according to the wiki page, immediate damage from perks like Jolt should still affect blocked gens.
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A blocked gen doesn't lose progress due to being in the regression state, but they should still lose progress from perks that apply an immediate loss of progress such as Jolt and Pain Res.
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Pentimento isn't even good. First you basically have to run at least plaything to actually get totem cleansed which means half your build is dedicated for 30% gen slowdown. Then on top of that is you have to go out of your way to rebuild the totem which means you have no pressure during that time unless you get lucky with the totem spot.
I've never seen a game won bc of Pentimento. It's always just a bonus to an already favorable positron for the killer.
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@killeriseasy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388876#Comment_3388876
I've been playing against them. They keep getting buffed and survivors perks are getting nerfed
If you literally don't pay attention to the patches over time then of course killers only get buffed and survivors only get nerfed.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388839#Comment_3388839
It will be interesting to see what the final patch notes will look like. I've certainly never seen a player base more opposed a meta shake-up in my life.
People want a meta shake-up. They just don't want their meta shook up.
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@killeriseasy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388774#Comment_3388774
Because I'm good against some and not against other... pretty simple. And the next patch would destroy the game for a lot of people even if it's not you. Killer mains are the worst part of the game. You get everything you want but complain about DH instead of learning to play against ONE perk Well BHVR to your rescue again. POS
And you'll never learn how to play against the killers you are currently bad at facing if you refuse to play against them
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I doubt it'll be a full revert. We'll likely see adjustments to the values and maybe a nerf of mangled that'll end up with longer heals than live, but faster than ptb.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388263#Comment_3388263
They hoped to keep it going for 5 more years because a 5 year lifespan is an optimistic but realistic view on how long they can keep a game going.
If, after those 5 years, the game is still successful, it is a rare example of a game with a longer-than-normal lifespan and they will re-evaluate how long they can keep the game going.
DBD has achieved that status. They're not going to drop support for the game any time soon, DBD is BHVR's biggest game. They don't have any other games they can pivot to. They literally just signed a movie deal, lol.
DBD also is in the situation where competition doesn't really exist. BHVR would be silly to stop supporting their own monopoly.