Crowman
Crowman
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Seeing the balanced tier just be perks that are way too weak to be impactful really says all I need to know about the thought process of this tier list.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
They balance for a 60% kill rate. That means that 3K is an average game. So, ONE OF THE FOUR SURVIVORS ESCAPES. Will that one survivor be you? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Anyone who tells you the game is not killer sided is either lying to you or drinking the Kool-Aid, and I say this as Pig Main that thinks Kool-Aid has way too much sugar.
While this might change somewhat at different levels, it still does not change the fact that the developers have stated on many occasions that they try to balance for a 60% kill rate on average.60% isn't 3K on average. It's less than 2.5K on average (2.5K is 62.5%). But you also have to factor in the fact there's 5 ways the game can end, 0K, 1K, 2K, 3K, 4K. If BHVR wants the killer to have less 0Ks on average, then the kill rate will go up.
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@arcaneGospel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/410296/how-has-sm-not-been-nerfed-yet
There actually is a need to list the reasons, when you recognize survivors give up without knowing the BASICS of how she works. People aren't trying, they are refusing to adapt and are instead hoping the game will change to their every whim. Learn what she does and what to do about it.
Not only that, but let's say the devs changed her again. Are the people who are refusing to learn how to play against her suddenly going to start learning how to play against her? probably not. It just needs time similar to legion.
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@moputopia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693794#Comment_3693794
Of course it's good to test new changes, but a PTB like this is supposed to be a playable product. It's not like the finisher mori test, to see where it lands. There is also not that much time to implement too many changes and fixes in the 2-3 weeks before next patch goes live, across all the different platforms.
I am for sure glad players are able to identify bugs and problematic aspects before the actual update drops, but it doesn't really create confidence when there's this many that are this obvious.
The ptb is something you opt into and is a TESTING server. It's never been meant to be stable as live.
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Let's not remove the skillful part of a killer.
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@Angelosso said:
I have not done any research on how he works or anything, but things that I think would make him more balanced is capping how many clones he can set up and the duration of how long it takes to set it up instead of like dropping the clone of mid chase without anything to think about. He is an absolute loop counter and it does not help that he could teleport within half of a second. It should also take some time to teleport, but the duration should decrease with bloodlust tiers. And I don't know if the killer is just randomly teleporting to places, but whenever I stand within some meters of a clone even though I am behind a wall or anything, he teleports instantly to me and gets an hit. I've also used distortion to try counter it, but he just has eyes everywhere it seems.
he can only have 4 clones, but oldest disappears if he places a 5th.
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You don't have to constantly look back at him. There's a buffer when you stop looking at him that will keep draining weakened for another second.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691918#Comment_3691918
I don't think Made for This would've been complained about if it lasted for 5 seconds after being injured.
Also people do complain about Skull Merchant's haste which is 3% on 1 trackable survivor.
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Personally I don't like the idea of any perk turning off due to the actions of other survivors in trial. If you get unhooked right before the killer down another survivor, your protection is gone and now the killer can freely tunnel you.
The only exception is perks turning off at endgame, because at least it's clear when endgame starts.
As for your other idea, even if pallet saves or flashlight saves disabled DS it wouldn't prevent survivors from having the protection to go for those saves. Just going to force out slugs.
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@Dreamnomad said:
3 things I want to see changed.
1 - triple the amount of bloodpoints earned per event. I don't mean an end game modifier either. I mean for each individual event that happens in the game, triple the amount normally received. (if a hit normally gives 300 bloodpoints, give 900 instead). The entire match is really short. Only 3 gens need to be completed and each down is a kill. This results in games with pathetic amount of bloodpoints earned.
2 - adjust the results of what gives a pip. I played 2 games as killer today and got -1 pip each game. First game I got one kill and second game I got 2. I'm not saying that was an amazing result but I don't feel that I did abysmal either. I have a feeling that even if I got 4 kills, I'd be lucky to break even. You simply cannot use the normal event scoring method here. No hooks means no sacrifices. Each down equals a death and only requiring 3 gens be completed means short games regardless of outcome.
3 - let us use skins. What difference does it make?
On point 3: It likely has to do with the models. Easier to get the mode working with just a single skin rather than trying to get it to work with everything.
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@ChaosWam said:
Can we stop trying to make silly modes more than they are?
I'm having the most fun I've had in awhile playing as a tiny survivor.
I remember when LoL added URF as a joke mode for April Fools. The community loved the event, and Riot kept trying to "balance" a joke mode and bring it back and it only made the mode worse imo.
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It's a joke event for April Fools. It only lasts 2 days.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691302#Comment_3691302
We'll just have to agree to disagree that they did not have enough time to fix, test, and submit their change. Especially since if you're pushing a product, it's common for devs to work overtime and weekends to fix critical issues. Surely as a developer, you'd know that.
Also "Here's another thing you should know if you are a developer. The client is always going to find bugs that the dev team overlooked." - yes, corner cases and obscure bugs. Not one of the main components to the event. The offering did not work at all. It was not tested properly or they ran out of time due to wrong priorities.
An offering not working as intended for a limited time event is not a critical issue IMO that would require a dev team to work overtime to fix.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691288#Comment_3691288
Isn't it just his hatch closing animation?
Is it? I don't really play Oni myself.
But even if it's the hatch closing animation, it's attached to the Mori in the event since the Killer gets the normal prompt you would get for a Mori.
Unlike the other alt Moris like PH or Sadako that are attached to a button power.
Granted I forgot that Trapper already got an alt mori with a skin recently. Though this Mori animation change is on an existing skin of Oni so it's at least possible for a skin line to have multiple moris.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691270#Comment_3691270
As a developer myself, I also understand that changes can be more complicated than they appear. However, this bug appears to be very small; as all the offering did was provide action speed, aura read, and an increase to the protection duration. That is my perception with only the information that I'm privy to and my knowledge of software.
You cannot tell me that the bug this small could not have been verified and fixed within the 6 days they had available to them between its identification and subsequent patch if they had made it a priority.
Also, was this event not play tested? How does one of the most important parts of an event, the offering, get through testing riddled with bugs? That is something I cannot wrap my head around. It's not like this was a corner case or obscure scenario, this was the event's main offering. What that says to me is that the devs either do not have 1) enough people to do the job, 2) correct priorities when it comes to development.
First you are counting weekends with that 6 days figures. Second, the first hotfix was likely already finished for that cycle since you need to test and verify the hotfix changes, send them to get verified, and then have time to fix any issues that come up from verification.
They did not have up until the 25th to fix the offering.
Here's another thing you should know if you are a developer. The client is always going to find bugs that the dev team overlooked.
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Oni got a new Mori animation for the April Fools event. Seems development into allowing alternatives moris exists.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691229#Comment_3691229
Your assumptions of my knowledge on the development process are of course incorrect.
I have nothing wrong with copy-pasting code, as I understand the value of it. I made my comment because it takes significantly less time to copy-paste, so there is more time for them to bug fix, etc. Since coding is the last thing done in the development process (Concept → Art and Modeling → Coding), there is of course at least one developer that can spend an afternoon fixing a single bug.
If the devs are prioritizing other content or changes, then that is their decision, and I have no problem with that. But you cannot tell me that they are so held up on creating new content, such as seeing loadouts in the pregame lobby (that we have been begging for for years), that there's not a single dev that could have fixed that bug the day the event started.
Did I say they were only creating new content?
The issue I have is you that are downplaying the time that can go into development and bug fixes. As a developer myself, I've run into many situations of what seemed to be a simple issue become a complicated mess and having to fix an entire underlying system. The same thing can happened when developing new systems, though at least in the specific example you give the devs have stated during the last QA that seeing other survivor loadouts wasn't a current priority.
But as far as the offering issue. The event stated March 18th (Monday) and the offering was Killswitched that evening. Then the only hotfix during the event was on the 25th. Likely the hotfix was finalized a few days before (not counting weekends) so it could be verified and fixed if any issues came up. At my job, we have a similar process where we have a week to test and prepare the patch for release.
For an event barely lasting 2 weeks and the first hotfix being finalized (Chapter was the 12th) when the issued appeared, there was no time to really address the offering issue.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691215#Comment_3691215
I can provide feedback and speculation without having to build my own game lmao. If that was supposed to be some kind of "gotcha" comment, it didn't hit the mark.
You've decided that the work to create new chapters (which the devs already told is roughly a year long process) is simple which shows you don't actually understand the work that goes into development. While code reuse is important as there's no reason to rebuild the same stuff twice, it's not as simple as just copy and paste code from different killers powers and pray it works out.
Not to mention it takes a few days to get the approval of a patch to consoles so even if the devs immediately got to work on fixing the bugged offering doesn't mean it would be done in time for the verification of the first hotfix. Considering it's a time limited event, a single offering not working that was quickly killswitch likely wasn't important enough to fix over current projects the teams are taking.
You want to complain about the devs being bad at time management but you fail to consider that the reason the offering wasn't fixed was because they had more important things to focus on.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691187#Comment_3691187
Surely a 1Kb patch is able to be vetted and pushed to consoles within the span of the two week event it's designed for right? Also, sure we had Alan Wake, Chucky, and the Unknown; and the art team does a fantastic job at modeling, animating, and designing content for the game, but taking the models and actually putting code to them is what I'm talking about. Most of the new perks and killer abilities are copy-pasted amalgamations that could realistically be coded in a day's worth of time. The only novel thing that was added recently was the invocation, which I would understand if it took a few week's development time.
If you think it's so easy, then go build your own DBD rival.
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There's no reason to believe this April Fools mode took away much development from other things. We had Chucky into Alan Wake into Unknown/Sable for the past 3 big patches on top of seeing multiple adjustments to perks and killers. Not to mention the bug fixes we see in every patch notes. Big studios are going to have multiple teams working on different stuff concurrently.
As for the event offering, there likely wasn't a reason to fix it. Any fix for the offering was going to be delayed by the standard process of getting a patched approved for consoles and by the time that got out, the event was already going to be mostly over.
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If Pain Res and Pop are such a problem, then the survivor team is going down too fast which would be a problem even without these perks.
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Adrenaline is the 2nd most used survivor perk. Lightborn doesn't even break the top 10.
Lightborn is not nearly as much of a problem as Adrenaline is.
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Calm Spirit doesn't completely counter Doctor at least. Getting shocked still prevents vaults/pallets and still builds up madness. Considering the devs made Doctor's power ignore Obliviousness status effect, I'm sure they could do the same with Calm Spirit if they wanted to.
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No perk should have an effect that solely exists to screw over a single killer.
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The problem is that killers lock in their choice before queue. All a "don't match with x killer" would do is strain matchmaking and create either long queue times and/or worse quality of matches.
Not to mention how certain killer choices would be more unfairly punished.
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Some killer perks syngerize well with certain powers. This isn't a problem that needs to be solved.
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The patch that nerfed the stun time to 3 seconds was also the same patch that removed ds being active in end game.
But also there were complaints about the 5 second stun time because bhvr buffed ds to 5 seconds when it worked with enduring and promised to revert said change after they nerfed ensuring to not work with ds. Many people were complaining about the promise not being upheld for years.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
The only way to do this is with Champion of Light.
It’s a tough challenge because it’s basically “blind the killer 3 times but there’s a cool down”. Bring a flashlight and try to blind them at as many pallets as possible.
Alternatively you could bring Flashbang and Background Player and just speed up to the killer and drop one every time they pick someone up. Even if you mess up the save you’ll still get the Hinder.The Pallet Trap perk does apply hindered (even though the tooltip does not state this). So you can also use that perk. Though both are from licensed chapters.
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First, tunneling isn't being punished. Getting a survivor out is still by far the strongest pressure a killer can build.
Second, I'm not convinced that balancing the game around the killer not killing survivors would be any better for the game.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620461#Comment_3620461
I think the effect is fine
but infection should totally be removed when getting hooked
Infection shouldn't be completely removed on hook, but the fact that it resets to halfway is a bit too much.
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Blight isn't OP. He has some really strong addons and good mobility, but there's far more dangerous killers to be chased by.
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Darkness Revealed, ignoring issues with some maps and locker spawns, doesn't require a TR to work meaning stealth killers may get more value from it.
However, the same argument could really be made with current Ultimate Weapon and Darkness Revealed, because Ultimate Weapon was always better at finding survivors than Darkness revealed since it didn't care about locker spawns.
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@chibizodo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687399#Comment_3687399
comparing killer and survivor perks? Others are comparing Adren to noed so why can’t I compare a perk that’s holds off its affects just like Adren does unless it’s interacted with? It is still holding out a perk that can help the killer so why can’t the hooked survivor get that help too?
NOED doesn't still grant survivors expose if the hex is broken before the Killer has M1 anyone. Which would be the closest thing to a killer perk having an exception in end game like Adrenaline.
If the survivor is currently unable to benefit from the speed boost or instant heal from the perk, the perk shouldn't wait until the survivor is capable of benefiting. Second Wind doesn't wait for the broken status to disappear if you used Deliverance or received the broken status effect from some other means.
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@chibizodo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687389#Comment_3687389
yes there are other perks that hold out it’s affects until interacted such as No Way Out that was changed to begin AFTER a survivor has touched the door since it was an issue that the perk was rendered useless once gates were powered.
No Way Out's trigger got both the triggered changed and a change to the duration of the blocked. This wasn't some exception being added to the perk.
But also you're comparing a Killer perk to a Survivor perk. Killer perks are allowed to be stronger than an individual survivor perk, because survivor perks can be ran on all 4 survivors.
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@Science_Guy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687380#Comment_3687380
"There never should have been an exception…"
Why not? Considering there was one for seven years, why not?
No other perk has been designed to work like that. Allowing survivors to hold onto an instant heal for the unhook is incredibly strong and gives the perk no real counter. Not to mention a lot of perks from that time have been changed. Ruin, Dead Hard, Balanced Landing, and Spine Chill. Just because it was like that for seven years, doesn't mean it wasn't an issue.
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@chibizodo said:
okay so ig killers would rather have double exhaustion being used on a survivor in chase than allowing the hooked survivor to benefit from their perk?
Killer hits survivor who has overcome or SB what have you, last gen pops and killer loses that surv bc now they just healed AND got a speed boost away from killer while exhausted, but the problem is the static survivor on the hook?
The survivor on hook isn't capable of being healed at the time it triggers. There never should have been an exception for the heal to be held until the survivor could be healed.
While the situation you are describing can be annoying to face, there are ways to counter that heal. Deep Wounds and Broken status effects will make the impact of Adrenaline much weaker.
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I like how suddenly Adrenaline is this awful perk now that there is a condition where you may not get value from the perk whereas other strong survivor perks like Deliverance, Unbreakable, and DS that can also go games without getting any value from are not awful for just not getting to use the perk.
In many cases, there are situations where you just won't get a chance to use your strong perks and that is fine. Survivors are a team of 4, if they could reliably use every strong perk in every match killers would have to be stronger than nurse to keep up.
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BHVR said a couple years ago that Hug Tech was a bug and they were going to fix it. The devs have already decided they don't want hug tech.
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This isn't even the first perk that can give 0 value. Deliverance before you activate it? Useless. Decisive Strike? useless if you don't get downed within 60 seconds or unhooked after all gens done.
You have to remember there are 4 survivors on the team and each of them can bring the same perk. There's little killers can do to actually counter adrenaline so removing the heal off hook gives the perk a weakness the killer can exploit.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686532#Comment_3686532
Exactly, it still resets the chase.
I think the problem is people want a greater head start because they feel slighted if targeted again after an unhook.
As if by using DS you should be able to vanish or escape from chase almost guaranteed, but that's not really what its for. Its an aid to escape from chase, its still on the survivor to outplay the killer during that chase and escape.
Also people sleep on the fact that by using DS you remove deep wounds which allows it to be used to stack endurance effects with each other.
A well timed DS alongside endurance to eat multiple hits can cost the killer a lot of time that even if they end up killing you, the rest of your team had the time to escape.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
Could get rid of the speed boost entirely tbh since you can literally sprint burst into the adrenaline sprint burst. Besides you can still bring hope and cover almost the same distance. But glad they removed the saving on hook. Ridiculous that I should get punished for hooking when everyone wants slugging gone from the game.
The speed boost needs to exist so the perk does something once the last gen pops since otherwise a healthy survivor with adrenaline gets nothing.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686927#Comment_3686927
That’s still a buff, or at the very least still a positive change for survivors. And it’s one of the most requested changes in the past few months.
This narrative is not valid. There is ONE nerf to survivor this patch and the perk is still pretty good. How on Earth does that mean BHVR favours killers?
Yup, people on the forums have been asking for 5 second DS. Now that 5 second DS is coming, it's suddenly not good enough. I think there's just a group of players who primarily play survivor who will never be happy with any changes survivors get.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686908#Comment_3686908
Every perk sees use, this is irrelevant.
The point is that the pool of strong survivor perks to combat the current killer meta has shrunk again.
And now that a very old perk has been nerfed there's nothing stopping them from nerfing things like Resilience either.
I'm sure "both sides" players don't care as they can just go back to playing killer, but for people who main survivor changes like these are annoying to see.
Ah so you only play half the game.
Adrenaline is still going to be a strong perk, because an instant heal in mid chase or an instant heal picking up a slugged survivor is a huge momentum shift.
Plus survivors can 99% the final gen to proc adrenaline and the proper times and this is something you can play around with in solo queue. I've waited for a survivor to get hit or finish mending before popping the last gen just in case they had an adrenaline.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686887#Comment_3686887
I mean people said the same thing about boons and look how that turned out.
Of course to people who don't care about winning probably think there are tons of usable perks.
Do you really think survivors have the luxury to run off-meta perks if they want to win?
It's not an overreaction, we've been down this road several times.
The only boon that was ever meta was CoH and it only stopped being meta when the main draw of the perk was removed (the self-healing). Adrenaline still functions the same as it does on live with the exception of no longer healing off hook which isn't even a big deal as other survivors can still body block and you still have endurance off hook.
As long as Adrenaline provides an instant heal, it'll still see use.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Don’t think it needed the speed boost shortened but the other 2 changes are great.
Still a really good perk but probably won’t be anywhere near as common as it is now.
The main aspect about Adrenaline is the instant heal. The speed boost was always just a bonus. I think people are overreacting, my experience on both killer and survivor is that most impactful Adrenalines were the ones where a survivor got healed while being chased or healed from dying state.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
DS was never weak to begin with, it was just massively outclassed by Off the Record which did everything DS did but better. I don't expect to see more of DS because Off the Record is still the better anti tunnel perk.
I mean, Off the Record and DS work together so you can always run both. One of the big strengths of DS is that it removes Deep Wounds which allows you to add Dead Hard or Styptics to an anti-tunneling build.
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I think the whole manged/hemorrhage changes were not necessary. By nerfing the only good tools killers have to counter healing, it just weakens hit and run strategies which are already weak.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686381#Comment_3686381
I disagree, this perk was among the niche to most useless perks, that only gives information. No one even bother with it, when so any meta survivor perks offer much more benefits and viability uses, then limited time gen aura perk that only tells the gens that need to be worked on.
This isn't quite true. It was given 5% repair speed in 6.1.0 patch, but given that the duration was still 60 seconds and you still had to travel to the highlighted gens to get the bonus, it didn't really change the fact deja vu didn't really do much for experienced survivors.
It was still a good perk for new players since it's in the free pool and finding gen and doing gens is one of the things new players have trouble with.
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There's no such thing as a crutch perk. People use the word crutch as its own crutch to downplay their own mistakes or their opponent simply playing better.
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They just need to revert the extra buff they gave it from ptb to live. Instead of 200% for 5 seconds, it would be 150% for 4 seconds.
Really a case of BHVR buffing something, because people's initially didn't think an extra second duration was good enough and no one even gave the perk a chance.