Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@The_BiggCheeze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113469#Comment_3113469
Well there'd obviously have to be something in place to not make them stronger than a god pallet in certain areas, and making them replace god pallets in others. Like I said it's pretty much a reskin of pallets that could fit really well in the RPD map.
It’s not just a reskin of pallets though, because some killers have powers that can be launched over a pallet, legion can vault pallets during feral frenzy, and nurse can still see someone beyond a pallet which helps her plan her next blink, and some perks work specifically with pallets.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112902#Comment_3112902
Im at prestige 15 and my low level bloodwebs are mostly green with the occasional brown/yellow/purple/iri
When I hit prestige 16 Ill screenshot every single bloodweb from 1-50 and report back
I’m more concerned with whether or not the purple addons feel like they are near the 3/26 ratio. It feels like I’m getting way less purple addons than before. I need more data points, but so far it also feels like if an iri spawns, it replaces a purple, as I still haven’t seen any mid bloodwebs with 2 purples and 1 iri.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112924#Comment_3112924
even if they get that perfect, it still doesn't account for the other issues like forced prestiges (and forced costs,) fluctuating blood web sizes, less perks meaning less webs you can force the entity to eat bad nodes/routes, etc. And there isn't even a real solution because different killers prioritize different addon rarities because they still don't know how to create uniform degrees of value for each rarity.
There is a real solution, which is to use a deck of cards RNG to have the addon ratios be identical to what the level 50 bloodwebs are. Even if people prioritize different rarities, it would functionally be equal to what people previously had before the prestige update.
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@supersonic853 said:
I'm not the best spirit but decided to pick her up again with iron will being dead. I never runned stridor because i always wanted to not be hand held from a perk that was seen as "undeniably busted". But i decided to give it a shot. Man i would appear much farther away from the additional intensity (it sounded like they were closer) im debating just keeping stridor off. Thoughts?
Edit: (I know its good for the chance you face iron will. But i haven't much since the update. Mainly off the record. But stridor won't help that)
You could just learn the volume levels the survivor noises are with Stridor. There is a learning curve to recognizing two sets of noises, but it is an option.
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The only way this could work as a unique mechanic is if the breakable doors are in places that would be very inconvenient for the survivors if the killer kept the doors intact. At this point, we would just get a lot of complaints that a survivor lost a chase early because their teammate slammed a door shut.
Otherwise, there would be zero reason for most killers to keep the doors intact, at which point you basically just created pallets that killers can’t thrown projectiles over.
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Every 26 blood webs slots are supposed to have 6 green, 3 purple, and 0-1 red. This is how level 50 bloodwebs work. BHVR could implement a stack of cards RNG, where the addon rarities are randomized, but are still forced to have a certain ratio overall.
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BHVR needs to add an honor system, where people that DC or give up early are purposely matched with other people that DC or give up early.
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@dugman said:
Included in the patch notes from Tuesday was the line
Add-on rarity in low level bloodwebs increases as you increase your prestige level
There wasn’t any other detail though and it wasn’t mentioned in the August update (unless I missed it?) So does this mean the rarities in post-Prestige webs are now the same as if you were level 50, or is it more complicated then that? Just curious how it actually works now.
It must be more complicated than that, because I have a character above prestige 10, and the addon rarity ratios are still garbage compared to level 50 bloodwebs.
What prestige level do I need to be before the prestige rework stops feeling like a punishment? P20? P30? P80?
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@dugman said:
Just FYI the devs mentioned in the July update blog that they are going to be adjusting the rarities in post prestige bloodwebs to match what they are at level 50. Not sure if that’ll be in the full chapter coming up or a following patch but they have it in their pipeline and it’s a numerical only change so hopefully it won’t take much longer than that.
According to the patch notes, they already made this change. But I have a character over prestige 10, and the addon rarity ratios are still garbage when compared to what they were before the prestige rework.
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Do we have any data on what the addon ratios are like at prestige 20? I have a character over level 10, and some of my mid bloodwebs (like around levels 20-40) are still completely brown and yellow. And sometimes I only see one purple per blood web.
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It’s an unhealthy mechanic because grabs are still not validated properly. A killer can only make a grab attempt if the killer’s client sees that a survivor is doing an unhook animation, but it won’t validate the grab until the killer’s grab attempt reaches the server. This means that the window of time where a successful grab can be made, is less than the window of time a survivor is making an unhook attempt. This is why unhook spamming is so effective.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Let's have a killer that is fun and fair for both sides the provide skill
That’s an impossible task. Survivors only think a killer is fun and fair, if the killer is so weak that it’s garbage at high MMR.
I get matched against so many survivor bully squads, and if I play anyone besides Blight or Nurse, I’m basically asking to be a punching bag for those bully squads.
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It feels like BHVR gave me a yearly game limit. The anniversary event is the only time of the year where I can make enough bloodpoints to stock up on addons. The newest bloodweb change still isn't enough for me to maintain my stock of good addons.
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@MrMori said:
But I'd still rather just have a Level 50 sized bloodweb after reaching Prestige 1, and reduce the amount of levels needed to prestige after Prestige 1. So at P1 and above you'd have a big web, but you'd only have to get through 25 levels or so before you could prestige. That would make more sense to me.
The addon rarity increase is very noticeable though. Any ideas on if there's a cap to it? On certain killers it could kind of be a bad thing too considering some killers have their best addons as browns or yellows.
What prestige level do we need to be for the mid bloodwebs to be comparable to level 50 bloodwebs? I have a character over prestige 10, and some of their mid bloodwebs are still all brown and yellow. Sometimes I'll only find 1 purple in the entire bloodweb, even though the size of the mid bloodweb is at least half of a level 50 bloodweb.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107559#Comment_3107559
After it had recieved an effective 40% buff.
And you're kinda wrong, because you're comparing new thana to current thana. 6.1.2 is a correction. You have to compare pre-6.0 thana to the 6.1.2 thana to see the effect
As for the stacking math, its not perfect, but it is close enough, in reality, 4 stacks of buffed thana on 90 second gens was equal to 6.2 stacks of old thana on 80 second gens.(4 stacks old thana 80 second gens=100 second solo gen, 4 stacks new thana on 90 second gens=115.4 seconds. 80/115.4=0.7(ish), =30% debuff)
And that is excluding combining it with any other perks. This is just the flat amount of a fully stacked thanatophobia, any additional slowdown on top of it slows it down significantly more. I didnt add the rest of the perks because it didnt really matter, its very easy with a lot of killers to keep 2 or more survivors injured. Having basically 10 second longer gens on gens that are already made 10 seconds longer is just a snoozefest
You're not supposed to do math on 4 stacks because that effective uptime is too low. You are supposed to do math on 1 to 3 stacks.
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@Phantom_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3111230#Comment_3111230
Wow.. that's just next level 😅
And sometimes the last survivor will just stand over an open hatch until the killer shows up. And if the killer is trying to be nice, and doesn’t look for the hatch because they want the last survivor to get it, then the survivor will just stand there for 10 minutes or more, because they really want the killer to witness them taunting at the hatch.
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@Phantom_ said:
The game should give a "give up" option so you can move on if you want to, without the killer losing their 4K.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109727#Comment_3109727
ECG doesn't take 4 minutes though, you could also just hit them out and gain some BP. I'd honestly rather have that as a killer than having another killer stand over me and just watch, or sometimes even do it to multiple teammates. If they want to waste their own time fine, but don't waste mine.
Some survivors will purposely wait out the EGC away from the exit gates, to prevent the killer from being able to force them out the exit gates.
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@Cramps said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109615#Comment_3109615
Try the addon combination I mentioned. The reasons you've given are precisely why I started using them together and matches really don't tend to run any longer than with any other killer since I'm regularly hooking people, be it with the fifth stab or having Frenzy expire and using m1 on an injured survivor (if you're not getting any hooks, then sure, this can really drag matches out, but that shouldn't be the intention). I'm willing to bet you'll see far different results. It certainly is a hell of a lot more difficult to chain 5 hits without it. 10 extra seconds gives you a lot more freedom to travel the map and you'll have a nice little speed boost after each successful stab.
You're right though, Legion is bad in chases and he does really need survivors to be injured before a chase, which is why I think it makes sense to use his ability as much as possible and on as many survivors as possible, keeping them injured. I think the combinatio of addons I mentioned maximises his potential to do this.
My goal is always to progress and win the game. I'm not really interested in the "themes" of a killer, I just try to use each killers ability as efficiently as possible and to the maximum of their potential.
Using a different addon combination still isn't going to help me when some of the survivors are too far away to show up with killer instinct. It sounds too risky to guess a direction and hope for the best, when on a large outdoor map.
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@Peanits said:
It's technically more likely, but it still will not be common. You should not expect to see ultra rare add-ons on your level 1 bloodweb simply due to the low number of nodes. This change makes the distribution a little more even, so you should see some higher rarity add-ons in addition to the lower rarity ones (similar to a higher level bloodweb).
What prestige level do I need to be, in order to see a decent amount of purple addons in the lower and mid bloodwebs? I have a character over prestiege 10, and I'm still only seeing 1 purple in some the mid bloodwebs, even though proportionally it should be 2 purples per mid bloodweb. It looks like I have two good addons slots per mid bloodweb, and if one of them ends up being an iri, I get stuck with only 1 purple per mid bloodweb.
TD;LR Getting an Iri addon shouldn't reduce the number of purple addons we get in a bloodweb.
Update Information..... and I leveled up some more, and some of the mid bloodwebs are just brown and yellow addons. This doesn't feel like I'm being rewarded for raising one character's prestige level above all the others.
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The last survivors wanted to sweat for a hatch escape, and the killers wanted to sweat for a 4k. They were all at fault.
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@Cramps said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109449#Comment_3109449
"normal" by whose definition? Does everyone have to play the same or "normal"? Why handicap yourself to being just an m1 killer and deny yourself the one good thing about Legion's ability (to be able to down with the fifth stab), just to play "normal"?
I don't use it, but, distressing can increase your terror radius making it easier to find those who aren't quite as close. I guess game experience tells me which direction to run. Generally I have a pretty good idea which side of the map and/or where survivors are and which gens are being worked on throughout the match as I'm patrolling gens and/or consistently using Feral Frenzy when I find a survivor, which then tells me where others are. The knowledge you get from a lengthy Feral Frenzy is incredibly useful. Only the most coordinated groups seem to spread out to each corner of the map and they're so rare that it really isn't worth worrying about. With the addons I mentioned you'll likely still get several hits regardless.
It's also worth mentioning that without those addons, you'll often be in situations where nobody shows up on killer instinct anyway, unless you're playing on a small map, since the duration of Feral Frenzy is so short.
I'm simply making the most of a killer who really isn't that great and maximising the potential of his ability. To me, this seems like the most effective and optimal way to play him.
I feel like you get massively different survivors than I do. Most of the time I use feral frenzy, I see 0 or 1 survivors via killer instinct. Many maps are so big that it's not worth it for me to run to other parts of the map, hoping they'll show up on my killer instinct if I guess correctly. For me, if they don't show up on my killer instinct, they aren't worth trying to chase after, and even if they show up on my killer instinct, they still might be so far away that I feel like it's a waste of time to chase after them, because my feral frenzy might run out before I can reach them if they are running away from me. I feel like if I use feral frenzy, it's only worth it to try to chain frenzy to an additional survivor if I absolutely know I can reach the next survivor with that same frenzy. Legion is garbage in chases, and they really need the survivor to be injured before they start chasing them, or the chases might run awfully long. So I feel like it's a big loss if I hit someone with frenzy, try to chase after someone else, but my frenzy ends before I can hit the next survivor, and that survivor ends up being uninjured
I guess it matters what your goal is. Is your goal to progress and win the game, or is your goal to try to use hit and run as much as possible because it's "Legion's theme", and very slowly win a tedious battle of attrition?
This does shed light on why BHVR nerfed thana into the ground, because there are people out there trying to create matches that last forever, because it's more fun for them to run around stabbing people than actually progressing the game so it will end in a reasonable timeframe.
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@fulltonon said:
It has literally increased for survivors btw.
It massively increased for me as survivor. Dwight is the only survivor I play, and all the other survivors only exist so they can unlock the very few specific perks I want to use on Dwight. It is never worth it for me to prestige any of my other survivors.
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@Cramps said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109316#Comment_3109316
Personally, I wouldn't consider anything in the game to be considered a "tryhard build" - this seems like something that would be thrown around by people who simply dislike playing against certain builds and is entirely subjective from person to person.
Using Legion's power to stab everyone is surely intended? His ability is entirely built around doing this/hit and run, without that he's just an m1 killer. Why wouldn't you run perks / addons to compliment his one and only upside? This, to me IS playing Legion "normally". I certainly haven't found it less effective and less effective than what, I have to ask? Stabbing two people and downing a third with m1 after a chase which will likely last longer than the time it takes to get a fifth hit?
I generally have 3 survivors mending and one being downed as a result of the fifth hit with those addons. Surely this is the most optimal/effective way to use his ability and definitely progresses the game as the person downed is being hooked. Does the game often progress slower for survivors? Yes, but that's my objective as a killer, isn't it?
If I don't manage to get the fifth hit or know that I can't, then I commit to hooking someone else. I don't understand how getting less hits, less downs, having less pressure on survivors AND spending more time doing so can possibly be any more effective.
The addon I mentioned gives Legion 10 extra seconds of Frenzy, so you're only spending an additional 10 seconds per stab travelling the map at most. Against good survivors this is generally shorter than the time it would take to cancel frenzy and commit to a chase, in which case, you still have other survivors on the map who aren't being pressured at all.
Hitting all the survivors in an area and then chasing one of them would be normal. Trying really hard to hit all 4 survivors when they are on opposite sides of the map, where some of the won't even show up on killer instinct because they are so far away from Legion, just to try to squeeze out a bit of extra slowdown, is a bit excessive. How would you even know which direction to run in if the survivors are too far away to show up on killer instinct?
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109325#Comment_3109325
At least they are not nerfing the killer perks while saying it is a "buff"
When BHVR changed Stridor so it no longer countered iron will, they told us Stridor got buffed, because the survivors would no longer be able to tell when the killer had Stridor.
I don’t remember any survivors complaining that BHVR called The Stridor change a buff.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109308#Comment_3109308
True, you have a point. I suppose it's going to be map-dependent - on a big map like Red Forest, you're right, Legion can't effectively keep everyone injured. And I agree that the focus they're (inadvertently?) promoting is bizarre. That's part of why I wished they would have changed Thana the other way, so that it's more useful in incidental gameplay but less useful once you start focusing on 4-man injury.
But I still do think it's better on Legion than it is on almost the entirety of the cast now, because Legion doesn't care nearly as much as any other killer when survivors heal and thus the survivor counterplay to Thana isn't as effective.
The problem is the effective slowdown Legion will realistically get out of the perk, will probably be less than if they had run a different slowdown perk. Why should Legion aggressively fight to get really good value out of new thana, when they could just run pain res and probably get better value for much less work? At this point, deadlock might give more effective slowdown, and that is even less interactive for the killer than thana.
TD;LR if new thana is so bad that Legion gets only 10 seconds of slowdown per gen when Legion is aggressively fighting to hit and run excessively, Legion could have run pain res instead which is a much lower time commitment than excessively running around the map in a frenzy. Legion would only need to activate pain res 4 times during the entire match to get better slowdown value than an aggressive thana strategy.
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@Cramps said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109115#Comment_3109115
In my experience, people tend not to mend each other when I play Legion. The vast majority of the time people will mend almost immediately after you frenzy them. Good players also generally know not to pair/group up against Legion as it isn't a smart way to play against him.
No map is too large for Never-Sleep Pills / Mural Sketch Legion. I almost always get a down with the fifth hit using these two addons and can virtually run across an entire map, regardless of the size. Someone is at the other side of the map? Not a problem, I can get there, slash them and then come right back, with a speed boost to boot and usually, by that time, at least one other player has already mended and can be slashed again. I can usually keep players injured for most of the match using these two as really, I only have to find one person and start my Feral Frenzy.
The point is, this change will not really alter how oppressive Thanat is against Legion and Plague, it limits it a bit sure and people may need to adjust their builds slightly. It absolutely does make it completely useless on any other killer though.
Does BHVR really want to encourage these tryhard builds? Instead of Legion just playing normally, they're encouraging Legion to aggressively try to hit and run way more than normal, just to get the big bonus. And even if it's less effective to play like this, it might be a lose lose situation where it's a worse game decision for Legion, and it's way less fun for the survivors since they're constantly being hit and run.
Instead of using frenzy on the survivors in the area, then committing to hook one of them, you're spending way more time just traveling and doing hit and run attacks, which slows down the match a lot, but isn't progressing the game at a decent pace. It's like when Wraith has a 3 gen, and just zooms from one generator to another, chasing the survivors off the generators, but refusing to chase anyone. It's very effective slowdown, but it's really not progressing the game, and it way more boring and tedious for the survivors than it needs to be.
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109055#Comment_3109055
The thing is, healing against Legion is a waste of time because they can so easily injure you again by just stabbing anyone and then running off to find you, and because you generally can't avoid the first hit anyway. So it's still perfectly good on Legion, too - they just don't get as blatantly tangible a reward when survivors heal.
Healing is now slightly more attractive vs thana Legion, but it's still survivors choosing between wasting time and wasting time. Especially when you throw in that Mangled addon.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109259#Comment_3109259
100% this. This kind of design would have been the correct way to nerf Thana - weaker at its max strength but more usable for most killers. What they did made it hot garbage on anyone who isn't Plague or Legion, but didn't really hurt its viability on either killer.
Only 1 person needs to heal, and that's only if Legion managed to have all 4 survivors affected at the same time. Against survivors that hard split, or are just on opposite sides of a large map, it's more trouble than it's worth to get all 4 affected at the same time. Even if Legion used never sleep, and decided to just run cross map, the amount of time spent Legion wastes by running cross map just to hit and run, is much longer than one person healing if all 4 do get affected at the same time.
The problem is it's a 60% effective nerf, and Legion has to aggressively fight to attempt to make it less than a 60% nerf. That is a huge change, and if the survivors do manage to counterplay the 4 affected bonus, then we're right back to a 60% effective nerf.
Also, does BHVR really want to encourage these tryhard builds? Instead of Legion just playing normally, they're encouraging Legion to aggressively try to hit and run way more than normal, just to get the big bonus. And even if it's less effective to play like this, it might be a lose lose situation where it's a worse game decision for Legion, and it's way less fun for the survivors since they're constantly being hit and run.
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@Cramps said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3109061#Comment_3109061
Not at all. If they have the broken status effect, it doesn't matter whether they're on comms or not, they physically can't heal.
Most matches aren't against 4 players on comms.
Use the right add-ons and you can keep all four players injured as Legion for most of the match, regardless of whether they're a group using comms or not - you don't even need to apply the broken status to do it. I will still run Thanat on Legion and it will still be effective. These changes will stop me using Thanat on anyone BUT Legion and Plague, however.
Devs stated that Thanat can feel too oppressive on these killers and made it only viable on them, it makes no sense and completely contradicts the entire reason for the change.
Legion pin doesn't give the broken status if someone else finishes the mend, which is much easier done with voice comms. And it doesn't need to be a 4 SWF, because the big thana bonus requires all 4 survivors to be affected at the same time. Even if only 2 people are using voice comms, they can still nullify the thana 4 bonus.
Most maps are too large for Legion to reliably have all 4 survivors injured at the same time. All it takes is one survivor to be way on the other side of the map, far away from the other survivors, and then what are you going to do? If you walk all the way to the other side of the map, you have zero pressure on the survivors you just left behind.
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@Cramps said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108385#Comment_3108385
Unless you're running add-ons to force the broken status, which I suspect we'll start seeing a lot more of on Legion in particular.
It's really not that difficult to keep people injured for most of the game as Legion using the right combination of addons.
It is difficult if the survivors are on voice communication. Why build a strategy that is extra weak against voice communication? It’s much more reliable to pick a strategy that is still good against voice communication, because those will often be the most difficult matches.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108730#Comment_3108730
its completely dead because most of its uptime is on 1,2 and 3 stack which are now meaningless. also if you read their post. they specific said that one of reasons they are changing the perk is because of thanotophobia quick rose to popularity.
I’m so glad someone else understands the concept of effective uptime.
The effective uptime for all 4 survivors being affected at the same time, is so low for anyone besides Plague, that the 4 survivor big bonus can be ignored, which means the perk is an effective 60% nerf for anyone besides Plague.
And Legion can’t even reliably try to rig their perks and addons to aim for all 4 survivors being affected at the same time, because SWFs with voice communication exists, and they can coordinate to finish mending each other. And having a strategy that is extra weak against voice communication is a poor game strategy.
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@XombieRocker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108742#Comment_3108742
Oh man, that version makes way more sense.
This is much better. The big jumps should be at 2 and 3 survivors, with 1 and 4 survivors being a small jump.
Requiring all 4 survivors to be affected at the same time for the biggest jump, would have such a small effective uptime on anyone besides Plague, that the biggest jump can be discarded from any math calculations regarding how good the perk is.
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@MB666 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108175#Comment_3108175
agreed , this perk wasnt stronger but was a bit to powerful on legion and plague , making gens really opressive to get done if teammates arent smashing gens constantly , soo with this change only 1 needs to heal always to prevent gens taking a huge amount of time , sadly this change aswell makes the perk way more weaker and even less viable for other killer than are not Legion / Plague.
but to be fair i think Solo Q still needs a proper buff , i dont think people are disconnecting just by thana , i think the lack of infomation + gens having a more balanced state+ killer buffs + the second chance perks nerfed , totally shows how solo Q was a bit depending of those stroonger perks to carry a bad team.
I don't think it was thana that was causing the DCs, I think people were just throwing a fit because they didn't like the perk changes. Things have gotten much more normal since the patch dropped. I don't see anywhere near as many people DCing, and the killer queues are much better than they used to be. I checked some killer streamers, and their killer queues were also much better than they used to be.
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@fulltonon said:
That seems pretty backward tbh, shouldn't it be opposite?
Something like 22% slowdown for survivors who got hit by normal attacks, until they get healed seems better.
It's a 60% effective nerf for Legion. The effective uptime for all 4 survivors being affected at the same time is so low, that the big bonus for 4 survivors might as well not exist.
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@LeFennecFox said:
I feel like it should be something more like 6% , 10%, 12%, 14% (+5.7s, +10s, +12.3s, +14.6s). That way killers that can't consistently have everyone injured can get value while plague/legion don't get too much benefit from their ability to keep people injured while reducing the max possible slowdown with thanat.
I think this would be a much more reasonable nerf. It's much more fair than the 60% effective nerf that is currently planned.
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@roundpitt said:
Thanatophobia Rework
Each injured, dying, or hooked Survivor will now provide a 1/1.5/2% action speed penalty. If all four Survivors are either injured, dying, or hooked, Thanatophobia grants an additional 12% penalty to Survivors’ action speeds.
So after one survivor dies, the perk is nearly useless. In addition, you can only get good value with plague, legion and nurse.
I think this will mostly only be used on plague and legion though. They are kind of homogenizing perks.
It's a 60% effective nerf for Legion. The effective uptime for all 4 survivors being affected at the same time is so low, that the big bonus for 4 survivors might as well not exist.
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Thana is a 60% effective nerf for anyone besides Plague. The nerf went way too far.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107119#Comment_3107119
Because its very easy to get 2-3 survivors injured at all times, its not as easy to get 4.
Let alone that the basekit 10 extra seconds is basically already 2 stacks of old thana anyway. Having 4 stacks of thana on the old 80 second gens was already large enough to slow down a game significantly. Having basically 6 stacks of thana on 80 second gens was a really hard game to win. Add the amount of time needed for mending(with basekit bt, mending is a lot more common and ensures thana for longer) and a perk like Thanatophobia is simply a snooze fest. Thats not even talking about perks like Gift of Pain, which is a scourge, requires a hook and then a heal.
Oh, did I forget to mention, you could stack them? Slap on Dying Light, Thana, Gift of Pain, STBFL, hook the obsession first and rush the rest. The obsession basically cant do gens if you keep the rest injured and they wont finish gens because you can down them super fast. Thats a 128 second solo gen for the obsession at almost all times, and 108 second gens for other survivors(increasing to 130 seconds solo gens)
After the change, 6%(3 survivors injured) would equal to 3.5 stacks of thana on the old gen speed. But the 4th injure would give a huge benefit.
Personally, I would have split it up like 6% for 1 stack, 2% for the second stack, 2% for the 3rd stack and 10% for the 4th stack
The perk is effectively a 60% nerf. The big bonus has such a small effective uptime, then it doesn't sway the numbers enough to be meaningful. With the new thana, 3 survivors need to be affected at the same time, in order for it to be better than 1 survivor being affected by the current thana.
And the stacking math doesn't work. You're supposed to take a certain combo of perks, and compare the effectiveness of the current thana to the future thana, within that combo. You can't just take the current thana as standalone, and compare it to future thana within a combo of slowdown perks.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107200#Comment_3107200
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107204#Comment_3107204
Do you deny that pre-patch Legion and Plague were the best users of the perk, and post-patch they will be by far the best users of the perk due to the bonus of having all 4 survivors injured? And therefore, the perk was nerfed harder on every killer except for those who can consistently injure all 4 survivors, even if not keeping them injured?
Like, overall it was a nerf, yes. I agree. Across all levels it has been nerfed. However, it's now even better on Legion and Plague relative to all other killers due to their specific ease of injuring people and keeping them injured, while becoming a lot more of a situational gimmicky perk on all other killers.
The problem is that I use it on Legion, and it’s getting an effective 60% nerf.
Who cares if it’s more useless than before on 98% of the killers? It was useless before on them, and it’s still useless on them. We’re getting bamboozled with the numbers rework, because most people don’t understand the concept of effective uptime value.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107164#Comment_3107164
that doesnt change the fact that they nerfed it on every killer except for legion and plague, who were by far the 2 best users of the perk.
It’s still nerfed on Legion. The values for 1,2, and 3 affected survivors is a 60% nerf, and that is what the most common scenarios will be.
You aren’t supposed to take the best scenario, and pretend the entirely or every game will be that scenario. You’re supposed to estimate how much uptime each scenario would happen, and calculate if it would be an overall buff or nerf.
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I’m more concerned about the perk being a 60% nerf, because the big bonus that requires it to be active on all 4 survivors at the same time, will be a very short and rare occurrence for anyone besides plague.
Why is the perk balanced around this unrealistic big bonus?
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It makes me sad seeing all the survivor posts today, where they had no idea they could just let go of the gen before it exploded.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106980#Comment_3106980
You mean like BBQ did.
BBQ auras got dodged a lot, but I would sometimes leave a hooked survivor if BBQ showed someone in an area that is worth traveling to. But BBQ isn’t worth running anymore, and pain res still doesn’t have the gen notification, so I guess I’m better off always proxy camping. If BHVR wants me to camp, then I guess I’ll camp.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106845#Comment_3106845
If it was so easy to counter why was everyone and their mom using it?
Because it gave the killer a direction to go in after they hooked a survivor. It feels good when a killer hooks a survivor, and they are given a direction to go to, so they feel like it’s worth it to leave a hooked survivor.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3106722#Comment_3106722
Not really.
Having 1 person healthy against Legion is easy, which basically nullifies Thanataphobia
Correct. And even if the stars align and all 4 survivors are injured, if just 1 person heals, then the big bonus goes away again. Unless all the injured survivors are broken, I don’t see the big bonus happening long enough to be useful.
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@dugman said:
Looks like the first round of post-patch balance tweaks are already announced! Going through them
Thanatophobia will be receiving a rework in the 6.1.2 Update: Each injured, dying, or hooked Survivor will now provide a 1/1.5/2% action speed penalty. If all four Survivors are either injured, dying, or hooked, Thanatophobia grants an additional 12% penalty to Survivors’ action speeds.
This change will make Thanatophobia nearly as potent as before if all Survivors are injured but will require more effort on the Killer’s part to get full value.
Interesting change. So basically it’s going back to a 20% max instead of 22%, and on top on that if only 1 to 3 survivors are injured it is much less effective. This will definitely make the perk less popular, how much it hurts Legion Thana or Plague Thana combos remains to be seen since that will depend on how often they have literally all four survivors injured during a match. (It’s a good chunk of a match typically but not 100% of the time.)
Taking 2 protection hits will now activate Mettle of Man, granting the Endurance status effect. While the Endurance effect is active, your aura will be revealed to the Killer when they are further than 12/14/16m away. Like other Endurance effects, performing a Conspicuous Action will cause it to deactivate prematurely, and it will not protect you from entering the dying state if you already have Deep Wounds.
With this change, Mettle of Man will now work exactly like other Endurance perks, forcing the Survivor to make a choice between saving their Mettle of Man and working on generators. Since this will make it a little weaker, we have reduced the number of protection hits required to compensate. The aura reading effect is also active immediately rather than after you heal allowing the Killer to anticipate Mettle of Man and plan accordingly. We believe these changes will make the perk both easier to use and more interesting to play around.
I’m not as up on Mettle of Man’s working as other perks but this definitely sounds like a nerf. Sorry Ash mains. 😞
However, this change caused an unexpected combination to appear. Since this new version allowed the Survivors to continue working on the generator, Merciless Storm would continue spawning an excessive amount of skill checks (nearly 40!) after the generator regresses.
To remedy this, we are restoring Pain Resonance’s generator interruption, though the Killer will still not receive a notification. This will cause Merciless Storm to no longer combo with Pain Resonance.
That said, this would bring back the combo of Pain Resonance and Dead Man’s Switch. Therefore, we’ll be reducing the duration of Dead Man’s Switch to 20/25/30 seconds in order to make the perk combo less oppressive than it previously was.
So good news for Pain Resonance overall, bad news for Dead Man’s Switch. It might be ok though, Dead Man’s Switch at 30 seconds still gives slowdown. 🤷♂️
In 6.1.2, this issue is now resolved, and The Clown will be available to play once again.
Nuff said, yay!
Tome 12: Discordance includes all-new orange glyph challenges. We’ve seen some reports of motion sickness caused by the swirling VFX after interacting with these glyphs. Alongside the 6.1.2 Update, we will be temporarily swapping out these glyph challenges for a different one while we retool the visuals. If you’ve already completed this challenge, don’t worry; the challenge will remain completed! The orange glyph is expected to return with improved effects in the following update.
I didn’t experience the motion sickness issue personally but I get it. Glad they’re adjusting it.
Matchmaking Incentives reward you with additional Bloodpoints for playing whichever role is in demand at the time. When the Mid-Chapter launched, these incentives were not working as intended, granting 100% bonus Bloodpoints to Survivors at all times, including when there were more Survivors playing than Killers. This had an adverse effect on matchmaking: While Killer queue times were fairly quick, Survivor queue times skyrocketed. The system needed to be disabled after several hours.
We have investigated this issue and found the cause, but unfortunately it won’t make the deadline for the 6.1.2 Update. Matchmaking Incentives will be re-enabled on the 6.2.0 Public Test Build, then on the live version of the game if everything goes smoothly.
I’m a bit surprised the fix wasn’t simple enough to make it into the 6.1.2 patch, just goes to show you can never tell how complicated a bug is to resolve. Ah well, at least they figured it out. 🤷♂️
I still don’t get how this is a buff for pain res. Am I the only person that used to let go of generators shortly after seeing a survivor aura getting lifted into the air, when I know the killer has pain res?
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Thana is now a placebo perk for Legion. The big bonus requires all 4 survivors to be alive, and if one person is uninjured, then the slowdown is marginal.
The survivors I am matched up with usually hard split when I’m using feral frenzy, and I feel lucky if I can hit 2 people with the same frenzy (and I often get only 1 survivor per frenzy).
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@Ghostofsnow said:
Like if they did balance MMR to work for a 2k/2e average or even a 3k/1e all the changes they added would be pointless outside of how the game feels match to match. which speaks volumes given the big negative reception and level of mostly valid complaints
I think it’s because they made MMR less strict. For a long time MMR was really strict, and it caused a lot of complaints that every game was sweaty. So BHVR made MMR less strict, which raised how often lopsided matches happen.
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I hope that if the animation is changed, there is still animation frames at the end of the dead hard where the survivor can't do anything except move forward. It's supposed to be a high risk high reward perk, and the high risk part doesn't happen very much if the survivor is allowed to 360, drop a pallet, or vault 0.00 seconds after the endurance frames end. And hopefully if a survivor does vault immediately after a dead hard, it doesn't count as a fast vault.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/338244/distortion-is-cracked-when-its-used
Totally useless. The killer can’t see you, but he would see any other surv, and this is a team game and you can’t escape alone
When a survivor uses stealth perks, it just encourages the killers to tunnel the other survivors. There have been so many games where 1 or 2 of the survivors are immersed, and it's their fault that I'll just keep chasing and hooking the other survivors that I can find.
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@Config said:
So let's say that u ended a chase, a gen poped (4 gens left), u hooked the person and now u have pop available, the most advanced gen should at least be 50%, now let's put some match here.
20% out of a 50% gen would be 10% + the 2.5%, that's a 12.5% regression with is super good, it's buying u 11.25 seconds, the old pop by kick would be buying u 20 seconds. 11 seconds (worst case) is already pretty good.
But let's say that the gen is 75%. Well then it's a 17.5% reduction, that's pretty significant, that's buying u 16 seconds, that's pretty big + the regression (almost as good as the old pop)
Now best in the best case, a 99% gen (with believe or not happens alot), that's a 22.3% regression buying u 20 seconds (as good as the old pop).
people don't take in consideration the extra 10 seconds on gens, and how much it affects % out of gens. And even then u can pair pop with other strong gen slowdown perks, as Thana that would make so ur 20 seconds now takes even longer to be done again 22% slower + the 10 seconds on gens. Or pair pop with dead lock, so u have basically a guaranteed pop + the information of what's the most advanced gen + 30 seconds of gen block.
The only perk I don't think that goes that well with pop anymore is pain resonance, cause it would be making ur pop weaker, since it remover 15% even before u kick it (but still 30% progress that would be removed in average). Pop doesn't have the rng that scourge hooks have, and give u a relatable way to controll gens. Keep using it, it's still a amazing perk.
(So i don't know why but my other discussion talking about this was deleted)
Pop is garbage now. You have to factor in the time it takes for the killer to walk up to the generator, kick the generator, then walk back.
Base gen regression is still only 25% of survivor's repair speed, so unless you're using call of brine, or call of brine combined with overcharge, it's still often not worth kicking generators.