Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3137296#Comment_3137296
Well, first off, I believe you've made a fairly interesting leap in judgement. The average Survivor isn't very good and you have assumed that means that the average Nurse player, likewise, is around the same skill level. This is a fairly logical assumption, however, the truth is not so black and white.
As someone who has played a lot of Survivor recently but has played mostly Killer in the past, the average Survivor is hardly able to play around M1 Killers like Myers or Trapper, much less someone like Nurse. Most players understand pallet looping, or window looping but few understand how to mindgame, how to chain tiles, LoS blockers, ect ect. It's why we saw the insanely long 4K streaks in the past, for good players, the game just isn't that challenging. The average player just isn't very good. Likewise, Nurse has a bit of a reputation. She's commonly considered one of the hardest Killers to learn and is very punishing to pick up, whether or not that's true is irrelevant. It deters many players from playing her until they've mastered many other Killers. This puts their skill (game knowledge, map knowledge, mechanical knowledge, ect) at a much higher point than the average Survivor player that they will be likely to match against. These are the most common Nurse players you will find in average MMR.
For example, their builds will usually look something like this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/73K4M2KE43T6/nurse-283-29.png
This is what the average player cannot deal with. While the Nurse may be able to be looped for a reasonable amount of time, their perks will help carry them over that shortcoming. These average Nurse's do not have god Blinks. They can be juked and they can absolutely be beaten and they know that. However, the Survivors that they play against do not have the skillset to counter her build, her add-ons, her power and the (generally) more experienced player all at once.
High MMR Nurses will, generally, not stack slowdowns. The Survivors they are going against have both the experience and the toolset to be able to play well against her. The players are generally of equal experience and many high MMR SWF's can deal with the best Nurse's fairly well.
My point is that Nurse is sort of the Killer SWF. For many experienced players, it's perfectly counterable. They might be able to bring certain busted combo's, but other than that, nothing too special. However, not everyone is so experienced and those average players will suffer from a serious power gap.
Almost all the complaints about Nurse are survivors complaining that they should be able to beat Nurses that are more skilled than their solo q team is. How is that fair?
If a solo q team struggles at mind games or chaining tiles, why should they be beating Nurses that have mastered multiple other killers and is legitimately much better at the game?
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@dspaceman20 said:
I'm thinking about using it. Is it still good for Autodidact or not
It got absolutely buffed, for people that want to hide from the killer. If the survivor is standing still, then it tells you if the killer is moving towards or away from you, down to the smallest meter possible. With the previous version, the perk would light up, and you would guess whether or not the killer was moving towards you. With the current version, you know exactly when the killer is moving towards you, and the killer can’t crab walk to a generator to counter the new version.
Of course, the super radar doesn’t work on undetectable killers, but none of the undetectable killers are top tier or high tier.
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3135125#Comment_3135125
Whether the nurse is tp on 5m, 10m, 20m, 30m, whether she uses range addons, recharge addons, or addons allowing her to prepare a raspberry clafoutis... her tp speed will be the same 🤗
Yes. And it will always be a slower sustained map traversal speed than it is currently.
BHVR should have just changed the blink durations for blinks shorter than 20 meters, and kept the current max blink duration so that it didn’t mess up her sustained map traversal speed.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3135093#Comment_3135093
Her map traversal is still good as 13.33m/s is still faster than majority of the rooster outside of Freddy tp or Sadako tp.
Your issue is literally a skill issue.
That’s not what sustained map traversal speed is. Sustained map traversal speed is the speed Nurse travel at, for very long distances, which involves multiple cycles of blinking, then going into fatigue, then recharging tokens.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3135082#Comment_3135082
I don't think you're understanding how the change worked. But ok.
The charge time is exactly the same. It's just the difference in how fast she blinks. The important part has ALWAYS been the distance you get. The difference isnt going to be that noticeable when traversing. Just chasing survivors. It's ok there. I believe you'll get better at nurse ❤️
Are you claiming that Nurse’s sustained map traversal speed will be the same? Because that is the very specific thing I am referring to. I care about how long it would take her to blink across a large map, using max ranged blinks.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3135082#Comment_3135082
The core issue was range addons were also increasing her blink speed. That has been changed to no longer get double benefit for running an already strong addon on Nurse.
Yes. And the increased blink speed made her sustained map traversal speed better, which was a very good quality of life for Nurse patrolling large maps outside of chases.
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3135031#Comment_3135031
No, honestly, even after the maj, the range addons will still be very useful to the nurse. Only bad players would need to camp because of this.
Nope. I don’t care about your shaming or the survivor handbook. I play to win. I don’t play to fit into your idea of what a “good killer” is.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3135031#Comment_3135031
Not significantly. The biggest issue was the smaller reaction time allowed for survivors in a chase.
"We" have been dancing around this issue for a while but even now, I know I don't need the range addon, if I agree to play very unpleasantly that is. (A few tactics, boring for both sides, in the real sense of "boring" for once.)
The big issue survivors complained about was the shorter blinks. But it is a noticeable nerf to her sustained map traversal speed, because it will take her longer to charge the max blinks.
”We” also haven’t been dancing around this. If you don’t think it will affect how you play, then that’s good for you, but I certainly will not be patrolling the map as much anymore, and I will feel zero pity for survivors for my increased proxy camping.
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@Little_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134921#Comment_3134921
In fact, if I'm not talking nonsense, the addons, as they will be after this update, will be as they were some time ago; nurses will have no trouble adapting, since that's how it was in the past 🤗
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3134930#Comment_3134930
There is a double benefit to the fact that range addons no longer increase speed.
First, it will allow the nurse to have a better grasp of his environment, during the tp, as it will go slower than currently 😉
2, it will allow the survivors to have more time to get to safety, and prepare their escape 😏
3: The addon change lowers Nurse’s map traversal speed, which encourages her to proxy camp more, and proxy camping is more reliable than leaving a hooked survivor to patrol generators.
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@dugman said:
For sure being on comms helps survivors, although I’m a little confused on what that has to do with not catching them at loops? Aside from occasional bodyblocks being in a swf won’t help you much midchase, it more helps the survivors who aren’t in chase know where the chase is happening so they can do gens or know where to go for a rescue.
As far as beating survivors in loops, one of my own weaknesses is still not knowing for sure the best routes on certain tiles (e.g. do I want to run the loop clockwise or counterclockwise?) There are some guides to looping on Youtube which are ok but every tile is a bit different so really it’s just a matter of playing a ton and thinking about what went wrong. But in general the goal in a loop is to do it so that the survivor can’t automatically get a fast vault on each pass, so you want to have them approaching the vault from either a short side or a shallow angle. Either that or, like in the killer shack, you want to be able to possibly mindgame them by moonwalking just before the vault so they vault right back into you.
Mostly though I think just as important as doing well in a given chase is knowing when to switch targets and go after someone else. Getting the intuition of when to start a chase or break off a chase is huge because if you chase one survivor too long it leaves up to three survivors free to do the gens. If a survivor is clearly running into a remote area with a strong tile and no gens in that area for instance consider chasing someone else since that one clearly isn’t working on anything at the moment anyway and you can deliver a lot more immediate pressure on the group as a whole by taking a couple extra seconds to go after an alternate player who is on a generator and maybe in a weaker area where pallets are already broken, etc. Learning to say “Nah, I’ll go after somebody else” can really help you keep the survivors off the gens more often and give you more opportunities to find survivors who are easier hits and downs.
Also one last thing is don’t be afraid to slug for pressure. If you literally hook immediately after every single down you’re probably giving up too much time carrying the survivors over and over without actually getting the three hooks in a row on any one of them. It’s perfectly fine to hook one or two survivors and slug the others so that you can focus more of your time on chasing and downing the ones who are closer to elimination. Basically you trade a hook state you don’t need immediately for 10 extra seconds or so to get into a brand new chase on a more valuable target. So while you don’t want to overdo slugging either, since losing too many hooks to revivals is also bad, slugging when you’ve downed someone who hasn’t been hooked yet and there’s another good target to go after is something to keep in mind.
Choosing to go clockwise or counterclockwise is usually some of these things
1) Does one direction prevent the survivor from doing a fast vault?
2) Does one direction push the survivor towards a better part of the map (less pallets, or a deadzone, or the towards whatever direction you want the survivor to run in)?
3) Is it a structure that is supposed to be looped in a specific direction every time, and if the survivor tries to loop it the opposite way, you need to change directions to force them to loop it the better way?
4) Do you need to just follow the survivor until the window gets blocked, because BHVR decided that triple loops are fun for survivors?
5) Is it a small loop that you're not supposed to actually loop, and instead you're supposed to just dance around it (sometimes waiting for bloodlust), until you can hit the survivor at that loop? Killers need to be able to identify which pallets and loops are unsafe.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3130089#Comment_3130089
You still haven't explained how this increases their escape rate. You can't coordinate with solos.
SWFs can better coordinate what they should be doing, if they had more information about what the other survivors are doing. It’s the same concept of how solo q survivors want survivor action icons, even though these icons don’t involve direct communication with the other survivors.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3129881#Comment_3129881
The hud tells you when any survivor is in chase. It's a bit more subtle when it isn't the obsession, but their portrait and name become a bit brighter when in chase and dim when not in chase.
You can also deduce that a solo is in chase by the change in their health state. If they suddenly go from healthy to injured, you know they're in chase. I fail to see how knowing that a solo is in chase magically increases a swf's chance of escaping.
Survivor action icons would raise 2-SWF and 3-SWF closer to the level of 4-SWF. This would raise the escape rate of 2-SWF and 3-SWF.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3129740#Comment_3129740
It is not stronger and that's what i am saying. Before you would use it to pallet and make chase a minute longer. Now you can not do this. At least for me. I am seeing some people are bringing this perk but they usually have not any value from it. Because it is not hard to counter perk for me.
It was good change. The effect is maybe stronger but it is really so hard to get value from it. Which makes it balanced.
It’s stronger if the survivor has the reaction time to reliably use dead hard on reaction to a killer lunge, or on reaction to whatever power the current killer is using. It's weaker if the survivor doesn't have this reaction time, or if the survivor is against an M1 killer.
The new version is stronger against Blight and Nurse than the old version, so people are still using it. And it still feels like "Press E to erase a mistake" when I'm playing Blight or Nurse.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3129643#Comment_3129643
No, it wouldn't. The HUD already tells you when someone is in chase. The next logical step is for it to simply tell you who's doing what, not where.
This doesn't lead to an increase in swf escape rates unless the killer plays poorly, in which case I'd say they earned the win. It makes no difference to a swf what the solos are doing because they can't communicate with the solos.
If all survivors are given extra information in the future, then the people in SWFs would be given extra information (that they currently do not have) about the survivors that aren't in their SWF.
And it would make a difference to a SWF, because they would get extra information on what people outside their SWF is doing. For example, the HUD currently only tells people when the obsession is in chase, but if survivor icons are added to the game, then the SWF members would know every time someone outside their SWF was in a chase.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3129016#Comment_3129016
Giving solos the same level of information swf gets bridges the gap. This means things like basekit kindred, and HUD Icons that tell you what each survivor is doing.
Swf gets no benefit from this because they already have this information. That addresses the Solo vs Swf imbalance. For killers, basekit regression buffs and smaller maps. That addresses the imbalance between killers and swfs in a way that's fair for everyone. Then the survivor role can be nerfed as a whole.
There is no justifiable reason why killers should be OP by mere virtue of them being killers. This is not a simulator where you play against bots.
That would still buff most SWFs, because most SWFs aren’t 4 people, and that would give SWFs extra information about the survivors that are not in their SWF.
The end result is SWFs that aren’t 4 people would have their escape rate raised.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3126816#Comment_3126816
It really isn't anymore, not after the bunch of buffs killers received.
I understand that camping needs to be at least somewhat of an option, but it can still be made less effective without making the killer powerless in the scenarios where he needs to camp.
In most cases, a killer needs to camp when other survivors are nearby. But the killer can still spread damage among those survivors, despite the hook phase duration being increased from 60 to 70 seconds, and hook grabs being removed.
And no, survivors going for stealth shouldn't be a reason for killers to just sit by a hooked survivor and kill the survivor without any skill at all.
If people want queue times to go back to normal, nerfs to camping and tunneling will need to happen.
What is a killer supposed to do if there is a hooked survivor, and the other survivors are hiding because they are waiting for the killer to move away from the hook? How is the killer realistically supposed to find these survivors that might be hiding on random parts of the map, and might be using voice communication to tell each other where the killer is?
And what is the killer supposed to do if one of the survivors is repair a generator way on the other side of the map, and is protected because they are using voice communication, and they know they can leave the generator and hide if one of their friends tells them the killer is moving towards their direction?
Voice communication and hiding is such a massive game advantage, and killers need the option of camping to counter it.
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@Khelendrose2020 said:
No, SWF should not be nerfed. That said, it is too strong. For whatever reason, the game was originally designed for 4 survivors who can't communicate. There was no invite option. So, they need to balance the game around SWF play capabilities. Buff solo que survivors to have similar information and buff killers to compensate.
That would mitigate the swf impact on killers, especially M1 killers.
I still think there should be survivor action icons, and all 5 players should get access to them. The only fair way to compensate the killer for the extra advantages survivors get when they use voice communication, is for the killer to also get extra game information.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3122740#Comment_3122740
Lmao how is this a bad thing? It simply discouarges camping. So no, it's not a problem when survivors don't have to play as risky to counterplay freaking camping? There is no other online vs game I can think of with such a cheap and pathetic strategy being so effective.
The game is balanced around the option of camping, and BHVR said proxy camping is fine. It is specifically facecamping that BHVR said they wanted to do something about.
BHVR still hasn't addressed the reasons why killers camp, and one of those reasons are survivors that use voice communication to tell each other where the killer is, so that the survivors can hide easier if the killer goes too far away from the hook. Proxy camping is a valid counterplay to survivors hiding.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125703#Comment_3125703
Didn't the devs confirm it wasn't a bug? Either way it doesn't matter. They're less overpowered now.
It's officially not a bug, because in the patch notes it is not in the bug fix section.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125652#Comment_3125652
You can still blink pass 20m. You just no longer have faster blink speed for equiping RANGE addons.
If you want to traverse the map, range addons still do that. To me it sounds like range was never the thing you really cared about as you are upset that range addons aren't also making you faster.
Nurse’s sustained map traversal speed is being lowered because of the range addons nerf. Yes, I do care that the range addons aren’t going to make Nurse faster, because the nerf affects Nurse’s sustained map traversal speed.
If you lower the sustained map traversal speed of a character, then it’s sometimes not as good of an option to leave a hooked survivor to traverse the map looking for a new target. That’s the whole point of my complaint. It would take longer to traverse the map to find a new target, and if Nurse is far away from the hook and that survivor gets saved, it would take longer to get back to the hook.
BHVR could have fixed the blinks shorter than 20 meters, but still kept the 1.5 second duration cap, so that Nurse’s sustained map traversal speed wasn’t affected.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125611#Comment_3125611
On Live, Kavangh's only increases the max range to 26. Nurse still has a max duration of 1.5 seconds. This has an overall effect of making her blink speed faster as you travel further over the same duration.
On PTB, Kavangh's increases both the max range to 26 and the max duration to 1.95 seconds. This means her blinks are the same speed with or without addons so blinking pass 20m will take longer than it does on live.
If all you care about is traversal, the range addon nerfs do not affect that. You still travel faster than other killers going max distance and are able to ignore walls as well. There's no reason these changes will force you to camp unless you only cared about taking advantage of the faster blink speed.
If all I care is traversal, then the range addons nerf does affect it. You just said it affects blinks larger than 20 meters, which is what I would be using if I were traversing the map to look for a new target.
And I don’t care what her traversal speed is compared to other killers. I’m focused on what her traversal speed is before and after the nerf, and it’s definitely slower after the nerf.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125555#Comment_3125555
Heavy Panting - Duration at max range becomes 1.8 seconds. (0.3 seconds increase for 4m). Effective Speed: 13.33 m/s
Kavanagh's - Duration at max range becomes 1.95 seconds (0.45 seconds increase for 6m). Effective Speed: 13.33 m/s
Both - Duration at max range becomes 2.25 seconds (0.75 seconds increase for 10m). Effective Speed: 13.33m/s
Her map traversal speed is still fast with these addons. What is being hit is being able to blink faster at short ranges.
To note, Basekit Nurse max speed is also 13.33m/s.
I thought the current calculation is Kavangh’s duration at max range is 1.5 seconds? And the new calculation is Kavangh’s duration at max range will be 1.95 seconds? And they are both the same distance?
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125489#Comment_3125489
Her map traversal is strong baseline. You vastly underestimate how quickly Nurse can cover ground, particularly in more vertical maps. She can completely ignore obstacles, walls etc.
With the pre-fix addons, it was so fast and so far that it was silly. The changes should help reign these in a bit.
Instadowns on Nurse are a problem, as with a bit of foresight and/or an info perk, you can mow down entire teams trying to unhook.
'Very little map presence'...what?
Nurse has nearly omnipresent map threat. She can come from anywhere and be right on your gen with almost no warning. I run a very odd build on her (DMS, Monitor, Pain Resonance, Floods of Rage) and I can constantly shove people off gens just by teleporting around randomly.
The range addons change lowers Nurse’s sustained map traversal speed, which just means there are more situations where the best move is to camp a hooked survivor instead of patrolling the map looking for a new target.
If survivors complain that I’ll be camping more in the future. Too bad. It’s their fault the addons got nerfed.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125423#Comment_3125423
Look up or down to manipulate collision....Remind me how you hug tech again ?
When Blight’s camera angle was raised, he became unable to bounce off of objects that stuck out lower than his waist. McLean tried to fix this with a secondary collision system, that involved looking down to choose if you wanted to bounce off of a short object. This never worked as intended, but got pushed out anyway.
When the secondary collision system was pushed out, it created a new bug, that if Blight started a rush while up against a wall and looking at the wall, Blight would get stuck, and then his M2 would get bugged out, and he would need to press M1 to fix it. McLean fixed both these issues by allowing Blight to start a rush while up against a wall and looking at the wall. This created the hug tech, which means the tech exists because the broken secondary collision system had a broken fix applied to it.
McLean later stated that looking down to slide off of objects was fine, and what he didn’t like was that people could start a rush by pressing M2 while up against a wall and looking at the wall (even though it’s literally the situation he created when he fixed the other bug).
And even though he tried for months to fix Blight’s short object collision issues, he never did figure out how to fix them, and when he left the company everyone just lost interest in fixing his collision issues.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/R8F2GRDVHCZM/image.png
Here. Everything in one picture. No need to say more.
Note: Please I DO NOT support DC / giving up in any match. It ruins games.
If Nurse used 4 slowdown addons instead of those addons, would you be happy?
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125292#Comment_3125292
My understand of how Nurse blinks works is that the nurse has a min and max range along side a min and max duration. A 1.5m blink takes 0.25 seconds and a 20m blink takes 1.5 seconds. When you increase the max range of nurse the duration to reach max range doesn't change and as a side effect shorter blink ranges now take less time which causes her blinks to be faster with range addons.
The change here is that the max duration of nurse blinks is being increases so a 20m blink will always take 1.5 seconds and blinks above than range will take longer.
Thank you! That explains it.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125234#Comment_3125234
only those addons have been changed. What was happening was that as they were increasing the distance of the blink, they kept the same blink time, so it was the speed of the blink that was increasing quite a bit.
I thought those two addons were only increasing the speed of the blinks, when the blinks were less than 20 meters? And those two addons were fine when the blinks were over 20 meters?
Or were the under 20 meter blinks fine, and it was the over 20 meter blinks that were broken with those addons, because they didn’t override the blink duration cap?
There is so much conflicting information on these forums, that I’m honestly not sure what exactly was the issue with those two addons, and I’m still confused.
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@feechima said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3125230#Comment_3125230
So the survivor is wasting time because they went down where there is no hooks? Pick them up. Have them wiggle out. They may get away. Those are the odds of DBD. You're wasting your own time because you are 'scared' 1 survivor in a video game will get out.
This is a PvP game, and guaranteeing a kill isn’t wasting time.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3124492#Comment_3124492
Correct, it wasn't in the patch notes, that was an oversight. I have now added it into the Patch Notes for the 6.2.0 PTB, it's under content.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GNMZ59XA1P0A/vepqk5i-5b1-5d.png
For reference, this is what has changed.
Does that mean the blinks over 20 meters are also getting the increased duration? I thought the questionable math interaction was only happening with < 20 meter blinks?
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@Piruluk said:
VHS dubbed by streamers as the dbd killer, latter changed to a competitor, player count declining rapidly went from 5k to 500-1300 players maximum. Probably will cease development soon.
Evil dead the game shutdown one of the US servers due to lack of players. Others expected to follow. Only EU and US server remain
Home Sweet Home Survive shutting down EU and US server.
Spirit Detective lost all of the global playerbase.
Propnight peak player count is 300 players daily.
So DbD is the king of the genre, no competition.
VHS encourages all the survivors to use voice communication and map pings, and then wonders why the games feel absolutely miserable as killer.
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This is on the wrong forum section and I can't move it.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/340140/nurses-range-addons-have-been-fixed
Or...They're bugged and not giving the intentional speed. Either way. People will still find a way to cry about her
I haven't tested it enough, but it seems like Nurse slows down if she spends a lot of time blinking through an object. For example, if you are on an indoor map, and do a max ranged blink up or down a floor at a shallow angle, so you clip through the floor or ceiling for an extended period of time. And there were objects on the RPD map were I was having issues blinking through them, mostly when I'm trying to blink through to the new outside area
And it also seems to happen even if Nurse isn't using any range addons.
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The problem is that if a survivor sees they got exposed from starstruck, they'll immediately run away from the killer, so unless the killer can hook the survivor very quickly, the other survivors will probably be out of range by the time you get to a hook.
People were doing this on the PTB against me when I was Wesker, and I didn't even have starstruck. I would hook someone, and then stare in disbelief that zero auras were on my screen.
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It's going to be difficult to test the incentives on the PTB, because I think PTBs would normally be stuck at 100% survivor BP bonus the entire week. Every PTB I've ever been on that had a new killer on it, had giant killer queue times non stop.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3122740#Comment_3122740
But what is the point of camping counterplay if you have to play into the camp to counterplay it? It's like running at someone who is holding a sword. 16 meters is moderate risk. 6 meters is potentially throwing the game. It's bad survivor play to be that close to a hook by yourself when a killer is camping.
I think it’s supposed to be countering killers that are trying to facecamp so they can tunnel that survivor off of the hook. The new perk shouldn't be a safe way to punish proxy camping, because BHVR said proxy camping is fine.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3122665#Comment_3122665
6 meters is way too short of a distance. Defeats the purpose of the perk if you have to reward the camp to punish the camp. Needs to be 12 or 16 meters.
12 or 16 meters would probably allow survivors to activate it through a floor or ceiling, on in indoor maps from unconnected rooms that the killer can't easily reach from the hooked survivor. I thought the plan was the survivor has to risk themselves to increase the hook timer, instead of being able to safely do this where the killer can't react to it?
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@Anara said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3120903#Comment_3120903
Or you try to hook them and if they wiggled you chase them again
Absolutely not. Killers should not be expected or shamed into making poor game decisions, when the survivors are actively trying to force the killer into these situations.
Toxic behavior is survivors that wiggle when they know there aren't any hooks in the area, and then complain if the killer drops them and lets them bleed out.
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@PaintedDeath said:
Wow dude, I can't hook immediately and they might wiggle out so I gotta Slug and let them bleed out has got to be the most pathetic take I'll hear today.
@Anara said:
Is it so important for you to get your 4K ?
You can try to hook the survivor on another hook, and if he escape by hatch you have 3K its enough.
Letting survivor bleeding on the floor is toxic and selfish.
If the survivor wants to get hooked, they can crawl to a hook, or not wiggle if I pick them up. Otherwise, it’s their own fault if I leave them to bleed out. They chose their fate.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3120743#Comment_3120743
That obviously happens, I’m just guessing why the devs put it in place. 🤷♂️
I thought they did it because the killer experience is that everything has terrible quality of life, and is full of inconveniences.
It’s the same reason why killers have terrible FoV, an aim assist that robs killers of hits and causes the killer to fight with their camera angle, super loud chase music that drowns out important sounds, footstep noises that are still inconsistent and buggy, and a sound system where sounds are based on line of sight and survivor sounds can get muffled by a survivor standing behind a paper thin unenclosed wall.
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@dugman said:
I'm not sure exactly, but it probably has to do with trying to have something in the game that kind of forces people to move around more? 🤷♂️ For instance if you have a hook right in the middle of a 3 gen, and just keep hooking over and over on that one specific hook, it might be beneficial to have that hook wear out eventually and force you to hook a little farther away to give the survivors a little more breathing room. That's just a guess though.
And on a tangent don't forget the basement hooks are indestructible. So whatever the reason there must be one, otherwise they'd have just had all hooks work the same way.
That’s not what ends up happening though. There are many games, that when 1 hook is gone, there aren’t any other hooks in range, and some survivors will purposely run to this area if they are about to get knocked down, because they know the killer can’t hook them.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3118761#Comment_3118761
Yes, but again, Nurse and Blight are probably the least affected killers by you gaining more distance on them.
And, again,
they're Nurse and Blight.
Dead hard is still more annoying to face as Blight and Nurse, with the rework. And if the extra distance allows the survivor to break line of sight, then it can be a lot of value.
We still have the issue that we were promised we could anticipate the new dead hard (we can't), and that it can be used exactly the same way against those two killers as it did before the rework, even though BHVR was supposed to be "shaking up the meta"
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117997#Comment_3117997
The timing to block a hit with the new Dead Hard is literally the same as the timing to dodge a hit with the old version, they're both 0.5 second windows. If someone could dodge a hit against Blight or Nurse before they can block it now, that didn't change or get buffed.
@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117997#Comment_3117997
You gain more distance against the two killers who probably care the least that you've gained some distance on them, in exchange for murdering its problematic use cases and requiring a mend if you do manage to get away.
Seems fine to me.
The survivors now get more distance if Blight or Nurse swings into a dead hard. Who cares if they have to mend? How often is Blight or Nurse trying to hit and run? Killers care about extra distance, especially if it allows the survivor to break line of sight.
"Most problematic use cases" for Blight and Nurse never was dead hard for distance. And when I do play M1 killers, I'm still forced to keep walking forward into M1 tap range if the survivor doesn't have deep wounds. They're still no "anticipating dead hard", which were told we would be able to do. The only thing the rework did was make it weaker for the survivors that don't have good reaction time.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117329#Comment_3117329
I said "lunge for distance" is basically gone, I didn't say the "reaction to the killer lunging" is gone. By "lunge for distance" I mean preemptively using Dead Hard when the killer isn't actually in attack range to gain distance ahead of them so you're never in range of a swing at all.
That means dead hard was still essentially buffed when the survivor is against Blight and Nurse.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117149#Comment_3117149
It’s definitely weaker than the previous version. Yes it can block a hit but its use to lunge for distance preemptively is basically gone and it also doesn’t protect against things like Trapper’s traps and Deathslinger’s spear, etc. So it’s both used less and is only used with good timing.
I never play Trapper nor Deathslinger, so I honestly don't care if it's weaker against them. I mostly play Blight and Nurse, which means I very rarely ever saw dead hard for distance.
I haven't used dead hard since the perk rework. How is the dead hard on reaction to a killer lunge gone? Did BHVR add starting frames to dead hard when they shortened the animation?
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3116935#Comment_3116935
The killer reaction seems to be the opposite. So far the killer comments appear to be leaning toward saying things like “I’m actually impressed when someone uses Dead Hard now.” Or at worst they say the new version doesn’t bother them. I don’t think there’s been any serious complaints about it being broken.
Dead hard on reaction to a killer lunge got buffed from the perk rework. I think people are just complaining about it less, because they don't see it as often. It's still pressing E to erase a mistake, for the people with good reaction time.
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115415#Comment_3115415
demo is b tier his chase is pretty strong but not exactly anti loop (that doesn't make him trash) and his map mobility is decent. people don't complain about demo cuz he's actually a good example of a "balanced" killer
no oppressive anti loop but doesn't fail miserably in chase either. also he's cute and cuddly.
Blight and Nurse are the only killers that can handle really good voice communication SWFs without getting bullied
well you're not facing that kind of swf in 99% of your games but players like to exaggerate the existence and power of the swfs they face, if you're decent at killer you will consistently win with no trouble (especially after this patch) except that 1 in every 100 games where you might get a decent team.
it's a combination of mmr not properly portraying the skill of the players and also most survivors being bad anyway it's not too hard to reach high mmr in dbd.
pretty much the only thing holding killers back rn is map design (except the ones that just suck by design like ghostface/freddy)
We also sometimes have people complain they see Blight too much
well yes, variety is needed which is not common in high mmr unfortunately.
There are so many people that exaggerate things on this forums, that if survivors can't find anything to complain about a killer, then that killer is trash.
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@DEMONANCE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112856#Comment_3112856
i mean, there's huntress, oni, demo, blight (without his bullshit addons) good survivors usually don't complain about those
it's impossible to create a killer everyone likes but those guys i think kinda come close to that.
Demo is trash tier. People don't complain about Demo because it's hot supreme garbage.
Blight and Nurse are the only killers that can handle really good voice communication SWFs without getting bullied. And people absolutely complained about many other things about Blight besides his addons. We had people complain about Blight stacking slowdown perks. We also had people complain about hug tech before BHVR said they will eventually remove it, and if that ever happens, we'll still have a bunch of complaints about his collision because a lot of survivors truly don't understand that the hits Blight gets from hug tech can often still be gotten using his intended collision mechanics. We also sometimes have people complain they see Blight too much. We also sometimes have people complain about Blight mechanics that were removed from the game a long time ago, because they have no idea how Blight works. And we still have people complain that Blight should get nerfed because solo q survivors think he's "unfun".
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3115115#Comment_3115115
That's not what it means I'm afraid, that's reading too much into the words that we're saying. We are clearly stating that there's other ways to earn bloodpoints, and the ways in which BP can be earnt - it's most definitely not saying that MMI are a replacement. Especially as MMI will not be available at all times, they will be there for if/when which side needs it at any specific time of day, region, MMR rating etc.
What are the "new ways to earn bloodpoints to compensate"? I thought Peanits was referring to the matchmaking incentives BP bonuses, as they were the only new ways that have been added?
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@Mandy said:
There are various ways to play survivor, some survivors enjoy the hide n seek aspect whilst some enjoy the chase aspect - neither of those are wrong.
If you're having trouble finding survivors, there's an absolute myriad of perks that can assist you with this...that's the whole point of perks assisting with gameplay styles, it can assist you in the areas that you are weaker in. I also suggest playing both sides, so you'll have more understanding/knowledge of how/why survivors hide especially those that understand the field of vision of the killer.
When BHVR reviews the reasons why killers camp survivors, I hope they realize that survivors hiding is one of the reasons why killers camp. Why should a killer go too far away from a hooked survivor, if the survivors might be hiding in random parts of the map, just waiting for the killer to leave the hook? And the survivors might be using voice communication to warn each other of the killer's location, to make it easier for them to hide.
Of course, survivors hiding and using voice communication is allowed, and is part of the game. I just really wish BHVR realizes that survivors hiding in a coordinated SWF can be so difficult to find, that it often feels more time efficient to proxy camp, because it's the only way to guarantee the killer knows where someone is.
I wish killers could get some counter on their HUD, that tells them how many survivors are currently repairing generators, so they could have some basekit clue if they should be leaving a hooked survivor. If it's totally fine for survivors to call out the killer's location via voice communication, they surely it should be fine if killers got some extra game information to help balance the advantages of survivors using voice communication. It would even be cool if voice communication were balanced by giving all 5 players some extra game information. Survivors could have those icon things to tell them what activities their teammates are doing, and killers could have some (possibly watered down version) of those survivor icons so the killer could be more efficient too.
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@The_BiggCheeze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3113658#Comment_3113658
an easy way to bypass the vision issue is to give the doors a window or a hole that is partially boarded up, this can allow killers with ranged attacks to still attack through the door. However the killer would still need to break it, or go around.
Unless the hole is the width and height of the door, it will still mess up some killer powers like hatchets, and Legion would still need to be able to leap through the hole during feral frenzy.