Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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It’s interesting that no one has mentioned that she’s kind of awful when survivors are trying to aggressively bodyblock her from chasing someone else.
As in, she gets affected by bodyblocking way more than the average killer, because she takes so long to switch from head to body, and she can’t realistically attack uninfected survivors in head form.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005209#Comment_4005209
It's intentional.
They didn't forget to un-nerf the regression perks that were impacted by the hook incentives, and while I figured there was still some weird way they just 'forgot' to do the same for the survivor side, they did cancel two perk buffs, so they did go over this.
They consciously decided to keep the survivor nerfs.
Dead Man’s Switch still has its nerf intact, and that perk has a much higher pick rate than both OTR and Tenacity combined.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005457#Comment_4005457
Dead zones were generally fine if the maps had stronger structures. There was no need to completely remove them and shrink the maps. If they wanted to buff certain maps then they should have done that without shrinking them.
The goal wasn’t to buff certain maps. The goal was to get rid of some of the dead zones.
And this happened because some survivors kept complaining about the dead zones.
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I thought this was part of the map rebalancing, to reduce the number of dead zones?
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005391#Comment_4005391
Survivors definitely lost an anti-tunnel perk. Dunno what you are on about, but you should easily be able to play around bodyblocking. All you need to do now is to count to 10, or even better, have a stopwatch next to you, so that you can time it exactly.
DMS got rightfully nerfed, because pretty much EVERY game was Pain Res + DMS. -20% progress + 50 seconds of blockage (and whatever regression you got from 50 seconds), which could easily increase a gen's timer by 75 seconds.How much time do you really need, especially when playing a killer with too much mobility?
Also, this one is for @ThatRyanB: Is the Krasue supposed to be able to attack a survivor mid transform from body to head form, or is this a bug? If it is a bug, it needs to be patched fast, because it has zero counterplay.
The sliding also needs to be drastically toned down. I mean, there is a reason why hug-tech was removed from killers like Blight and Wesker, because it is too strong.I dunno what you are on about. I’m talking about people weaponizing old OTR by using it to bodyblock the killer.
There’s no “count to 10” in that scenario. It’s “if you don’t hear grunts of pain, then immediately hit the survivor instead of waiting”
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@Blizer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005377#Comment_4005377
It doesnt take away anything from the killer, they can still benefit from it if the survivor ######### up and they knew the risk in doing so.
regardless, still stands that they didnt do anything to adress the loss of anti-tunnel perk, and the only one in the game promotes slugging (which solo survivors love), so Unbreakble and DS prolly gonna be in alot of peoples builds this week, along with Windows and an Exhaustion perk, nerfing perk diversity
just… cool work bhvr, really cool.
Survivors didn’t lose an anti-tunnel perk. They just lost the ability to weaponize the perk.
And “perk diversity” also isn’t a valid reason. Otherwise, we could argue a lot of killer perk nerfs should be reverted, because they hurt perk diversity.
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@Blizer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005365#Comment_4005365
But the point of the taking the hit isnt to encourage tunneling, its to take a prot hit, but take that risk of getting tunneled or going down increases significantly by doing so. Its called Agency, the survivor is actively making a choice that can directly affect the outcome of the game and for themselves by using whats at their disposal to affect the game in a positive manner for their team, while not negatively affecting the killer a significant amount (Killer likely still gets a down or a hook)
To me, that sounds like good game design when it does something like that, cause there is drawbacks to taking that endurance hit (encourages killer to after you), but it also wastes time and delays a hit on another player allowing them to reset if need be.
I do think i would be fine with this OTR change IF the anti-tunnel changes were implemented… they are not currently, and nerfing the perk does nothing but remove one of the few Anti-Tunnel tools and a significant amount of Agency for the survivors.
It also encourages less build diversity too, cause guess what perk everyone is gonna use to descentivize tunneling… the only Anti-Tunnel perk in the game
I don’t care if it’s called agency. That isn’t a magical word that makes things acceptable.
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@Blizer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005353#Comment_4005353
It is though, Survivors are actively making the choice to use that endurance to take a protection hit for their teammate, or play bait.
That is the survivor ACTIVELY (keyword) knowing that they can be tunneled by the killer by playing in an altruistic manner, and as i said if they complain, they made their choice to go down again after getting hooked.
as the killer, if the survivor does that, cool, i get another hook, and the survivor can only blame themselves for allowing themselves to be downed so quickly again by playing in that manner.
The core function of the perk is still the anti-tunnel aspect, yes that endurance can be used… but so can the basekit BT endurance aswell, so can WGLF Endurance. It GIVES the survivor agency to make those desicions, and reap the consequences of it.
It doesn’t matter if the survivor made the choice to be tunneled. It’s still encouraging tunneling, which is the exact opposite of what the perk is supposed to be doing.
The perk isn’t supposed to be “anti-tunneling unless the survivor decides it should be pro-tunneling”
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@Blizer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005299#Comment_4005299
Normally, when a meta perk is problematic i would tend to agree… but not in this case.
Game is in a ######### state rn for Solo survivors, its prolly in one of the biggest lows its been in a hot minute with a killer thats as good as PH at tunneling and is nearly uncounterable at loops, and they got rid of one of the only options to deal with tunneling, leaving just one good perk now for it.
I actually despise nerfing perks most of the time, and more of the philosophy of buffing other perks to increase variety and choice, but yeaaaaaaa
Everyone is gonna run DS now, might honestly overtake Windows for most used perk for a short while
OTR def can be abused as you said, but thats also a strategic thing to use the endurance to take a hit, espically if another survivor is injured in chase, even if the killer gets back onto them and downs them, they made their choice and thats fine (Survivor mindset is another thing entirely, if they ######### about it, they made their choice on the matter by taking that hit).
Do i think they could find a way to make OTR healthier? yes
Do i think that gutting it is the correct call without the anti-tunnel changes? ######### no
“They made their choice and that’s fine” isn’t a valid reason to allow survivors to weaponize endurance.
Because if the killer throws the OTR survivor back on a hook, it’s still considered tunneling. And it means the “anti-tunneling” perk actually encouraged the killer to tunnel.
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@majoreq said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005334#Comment_4005334
so you just forgot that OTR changes was introduce only coz Anti-Tunnel changes was also introduced.
Just tell us that you are killer main who struggle to get kills when you are not tunneling and we are will see why you are crying about old OTR
I literally just said the endurance effect wasn’t even that good against actual tunneling, because if I tunnel the survivor off the hook, I would immediately hit them if I didn’t hear grunts of pain.
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@majoreq said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005299#Comment_4005299
OTR in this way can stay in the game only if anti tunel changes will come to live also. Without those changes OTT should be reverted as its 1 out of 2 anti tunnel perks that survivor has.
We cant agree to nerfing anti tunnel perks while not giving anything in exchange.
Anti-tunnel means it should be a DEFENSIVE perk. There’s nothing defensive about a perk that encourages a survivor to run towards the killer.
The endurance effect wasn’t even that good against tunneling anyway. If I’m tunneling someone off the hook, and I don’t hear grunts of pain, then I’m immediately hitting them to get rid of the endurance effect. That means the endurance effect was always better as a weapon than it was at anti-tunnel.
As in, previous OTR punishes killers if they don’t tunnel survivors off the hook, which is a bad perk design for an anti-tunnel. -
@ThatRyanB said:
In addition, I wanted to confirm that I've seen the comments in here about Off The Record. I appreciate y'all being open about your thoughts on it. Rest assured, I've pulled together this feedback and am sharing it with the team.
I really hope the Off The Record (OTR) change stays in the game. This version of OTR is way heathier than the previous version because survivors kept weaponizing the endurance effect against killers that were trying to chase someone else.
It feels bad when BHVR tells killers that it's bad to tunnel, but then tells survivors that it's ok for recently unhooked survivors to purposely run towards a killer so the survivor doesn't "waste" their endurance effect.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004594#Comment_4004594
This is killer rulebook stuff. Nowhere does it say you can't use endurance to help a team mate. Everyone pretty much unanimously believes the survivor experience would be much better if everyone played as a team, so let them play as a team.
"Everyone played as a team" means no lone wolf survivors that are excessively hiding, and trying to get an escape as the last survivor alive. "Everyone played as a team" means none of the survivors ragequitting.
"Everyone played as a team" doesn't mean that absolutely everything in the multiverse, that involves teamwork, is good for the game.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004939#Comment_4004939
It's just taking away the ability to weaponize the perk.Which is bad why?
You keep trying to circle around this issue. Why is it bad that a survivor could use OTR to take a hit?
Because it's hypocritical for people to say that tunneling is bad, but it's ok for recently unhooked survivors to purposely try to get in chases with the killer.
Because if a recently unhooked survivor purposely tries to bodyblock the killer, and the killer hooks them, a lot of players want the killer to be punished for tunneling. It's ridiculous.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005011#Comment_4005011
Because survivors can't potentially decide a match at the one minute mark. It's almost like one role has more power.
Survivors absolutely can potentially decide a match at the one minute mark. It's what happens when a survivor decides to selfishly ragequit early.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004948#Comment_4004948
Trying playing nice as Survivor and see what happens.
That's not relevant.
Why do people want rules to limit killer behavior in the early game, but not want rules to limit survivors in the early game?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004956#Comment_4004956
So what is?
Because ultimately, the label of 'anti-tunnel' is just one that we have invented as a community. It's never been any official designation.
Do you honestly think OTR isn't an anti-tunnel perk?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004944#Comment_4004944
Where in the description is it designated as such?
That isn't a requirement.
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@BlackRabies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004543#Comment_4004543
Then maybe total progress done across all gens instead of completed gens? So gens can't be just left at 99% to avoid turning off the penalty.
It's still not explaining why certain killer behaviors should be delayed, but survivors can do whatever they want.
If players aren't supposed to "try so hard" in the beginning of the game, then why is it ok for survivors to pallet save at 0 hooks? Why aren't there rules for survivors, for them to also "play nice" in the beginning of the game?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004732#Comment_4004732
That is not the intention of anti-tunnel.
Where does it say OTR is an anti-tunnel perk?
Are you really trying to argue that OTR isn't an anti-tunnel perk?
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004732#Comment_4004732
How am I supposed to interpret the above sentences, if you aren't literally saying that weaponizing OTR is fine because it's difficult to pull off, and has risk/reward?I am saying its fine. Nothing in my last post said it wasn't.
I pointed out your use of automatically and acting like this was the only logic that would be used to evaluate game elements was incorrect.
And I've already said that perks having endurance effects is bad, because recently unhooked survivors should not be encouraged to run towards the killer. That is not the intention of anti-tunnel.Why not and when has BHVR said that it wasn't their intention for it to be used like that (not that's its really relevant as a discussion about what is a healthy game and what is creator intent are different discussions)?
Survivors should be able to work together, to take hits for each other, to run toward the killer. Otherwise the game would quickly grow stale from lack of interactions. There's nothing wrong with a perk that allows that and some perks encourage it explicitly.
Current OTR is way healthier for the game because it actually helps a recently unhooked survivor to actually escape a chase from a killer, which is what anti-tunnel should be doing.'which is what anti-tunnel should be doing'
This is viewing things with an absolutist lens. There is no inherent reason a perk can't do one primary thing but also have other possible uses.
It's a self-fulfilling argument, because the perk is referred to as anti-tunnel, it must only be anti-tunnel. That has nothing to do with what is actually a healthy game, its just arguing that perks have to fit perfectly into assigned categories (instead of what phrases like anti-tunnel mean, general descriptors for the perk's primary usage).
Current OTRE is also much better for scenarios where the killer is tunneling off the hook, because previous OTR could just get the endurance effect removed during the basekit endurance timeframe.For the sake of argument, let's presume this is true.
It has nothing to do with the now old version of OTR being a problem. It's shifting the argument. Saying this version might do something better still doesn't explain why the old version was problematic.
The OTR nerf isn't completely removing the ability for survivors to take hits for each other. It's just taking away the ability to weaponize the perk.
Survivors can still do all those interactions.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004679#Comment_4004679
Even if the buffs only had half the weight, which I would contend that's too low, there's still nearly double the amount of buffs.
Are you saying that if the following 6 changes are made, that it would be an overall buff for survivors, because it would be 1 nerf and 5 buffs?
- Generators now take 900 seconds to repair
- Survivors unhook 0.001 seconds faster
- Survivors vault 0.001 seconds faster
- Survivors run 0.001 seconds faster
- Survivors heal 0.001 seconds faster
- Survivors open chests 0.001 seconds faster
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004594#Comment_4004594
In other words, Killer complaints get addressed (again) while Survivor complaints get ignored (again).
In other words, we shouldn’t have a double standard, where we tell killers that tunneling is bad, but tell survivors it’s ok for recently unhooked survivors to weaponize anti-tunnel perks.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004687#Comment_4004687
Having difficult to pull off actions that carry risk/reward are not automatically fine.Who said 'automatically'? You ignore everything up to that point and then add a word in on top of it.
It's not even that difficult when survivors are using voice comms to coordinate everything.It's easy to say something is easy, but I actually laid out everything that would have to happen and I'm probably missing a few additional things that could derail it.
In this thread you never give a reason why OTR to body block is actually a problem. You just say weaponizing as if somehow the survivors doing things is actively bad.
By that logic, it's completely fine for killers to slug all 4 survivors, because it involves a lot of skill and risk.If you only think about one thing at a time, sure. But there are obvious other issues come up with all 4 survivors getting slugged that make for a bad game.
"Sure, that happens occasionally, with a ton of risk. If they pull it off, good for them. Having difficult to pull off actions that carry risk/reward are fine."
How am I supposed to interpret the above sentences, if you aren't literally saying that weaponizing OTR is fine because it's difficult to pull off, and has risk/reward?
And I've already said that perks having endurance effects is bad, because recently unhooked survivors should not be encouraged to run towards the killer. That is not the intention of anti-tunnel.
Current OTR is way healthier for the game because it actually helps a recently unhooked survivor to actually escape a chase from a killer, which is what anti-tunnel should be doing. Current OTRE is also much better for scenarios where the killer is tunneling off the hook, because previous OTR could just get the endurance effect removed during the basekit endurance timeframe.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004666#Comment_4004666
Let's look at the times here.
Survivor is unhooked and killer is in chase with another survivor. Survivor needs to get healed, run over to the chase, and take two hits (not to mention if the killer chooses to tunnel this survivor, something the survivors have no foreknowledge of, the whole idea is moot).
If the chase ends before the survivor can reach it, then the survivors would have been better off doing gens.
If the survivor just eats two hits directly in a row, not much time was gained.
If the killer has an insta down, or the ability to get around the block, the survivors would have been better off on gens.
If more than 80 seconds go by, then the OTR was irrelevant and the survivors would have been better off on gens.
So in the window where the survivor can heal, interrupt a chase to take a hit, continue the chase, then take a second hit before the timer elapses, all while giving up time they could be on gens, and now are a target for the killer as they have no other protections and would be, in a best case scenario, going onto death hook.
Sure, that happens occasionally, with a ton of risk. If they pull it off, good for them. Having difficult to pull off actions that carry risk/reward are fine. The issue with tunneling is that it doesn't have any of the above level of skill or risk.
Having difficult to pull off actions that carry risk/reward are not automatically fine. It's not even that difficult when survivors are using voice comms to coordinate everything.
By that logic, it's completely fine for killers to slug all 4 survivors, because it involves a lot of skill and risk.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004598#Comment_4004598
Fine, let's go through the list you posted.
- The Ghoul's Kakugan Reticle no longer rotates when pointing at the ground while rotating the camera.
Buff to Ghoul.
- Survivors no longer become immobile after dropping a pallet on The Ghoul when the latter is attempting to perform a grab-attack.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul is no longer able to Leap Grab a Survivor during the dying state animation, preventing the associated issues.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's power now reloads properly when used a second time.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's input prompt over the power icon now updates to the current prompt.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's score event Become Enraged is no longer earned when performing a direct grab in enraged mode.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Kagune Swipe score event is now earned when The Ghoul does not reach the survivor on the first swing.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The prompt no longer remains on screen when a Survivor attempts to blind The Ghoul during a failed grab-attack QTE.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The grab Cooldown SFX no longer persists after performing a Pallet Vault with The Ghoul's power.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- Damaging a survivor with a tentacle grab now removes Play With Your Food tokens for The Ghoul.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- Damaging the obsession with a tentacle grab now removes Save The Best For Last tokens for The Ghoul.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Tentacles now have aura when Tentacle swinging.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Kagune Reticle is no longer momentarily visible when arriving at a window/pallet to Tentacle vault.
Buff to Ghoul.
- Enraged mode Countdown UI now pauses while carrying Survivors for The Ghoul.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Tentacle Impact Smoke VFX no longer appears offset with the Survivor model for The Ghoul.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul is no longer pushed forward after tentacle vaulting a pallet on one side.
Buff to Ghoul.
- Survivors with Kagune Mark KE now receive damage when Direct Grab vaulting to Survivor close to a Window or Pallet for The Ghoul.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Enraged mode withdrawal vignette VFX now pauses when carrying a Survivor.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul can now perform Tentacle Swing vault over the Killer Shack.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's tentacle animation is now present when performing the second Kagune Leap charge at the end of the cooldown.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's camera is now centered on the Survivor during a grab-attack.
Buff to Ghoul.
- After a grab-attack, the vault interaction is no longer available and usable to The Ghoul during the grab/bite animation.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The tentacle vault speed bonus no longer occurs when The Ghoul is not in Enraged mode.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Killer effect now appears on the Survivor HUD when The Ghoul enters withdrawal mode directly.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Enraged mode Vignette now resets when having Enraged mode and getting Enraged mode again without the QTE by grab-attack tentacle vaulting to a Survivor across from a Pallet or Window.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul can no longer Kagune Leap twice on Survivors with an obstacle in the way.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul can no longer use a Kagune Leap briefly after cancelling the power.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul no longer stutters after a Kagune Leap.
Buff to Ghoul.
- A placeholder is no longer displayed in the prompt when vaulting a dropped pallet with The Ghoul's power.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's adjustment time end SFX no longer plays after the player cancels adjustment time early if cancelled after an invalid swing.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Tentacle Vault no longer creates a visual glitch after vaulting.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul is now able to perform Basic Attacks after pressing the Killer power input.
Buff to Ghoul.
- With lag, The Ghoul can no longer M1 directly after cancelling the power.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul can no longer perform a Basic Attack after falling from a Leap while in Enraged mode.
Nerf to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's power no longer breaks if stunned during a Kagune Leap slide.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Cancel Swing icon is no longer always displayed when not relevant.
Buff to Ghoul.
- The Ghoul's Kagune Mark no longer remains visible on the Survivor portrait after being removed.
Buff to Ghoul.
So, let's tally all of those up. Anything that negatively affects Ghoul is a nerf, ergo a buff must be the opposite. For the purpose of making it fair, I have included anything that gives Survivors more information as well.
In total, we have 13 nerfs and 24 buffs. So, this patch actually buffed Ghoul according to your logic.
Or, we can use my logic and say that it's a bugfix patch. These things were never intended to begin with, ergo they aren't buffs or nerfs, merely corrections.
No. Buffs and nerfs do not have equal weight.
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@BbQz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004644#Comment_4004644
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Fully healed survivors with endurance is useless it just puts you in the injured state+ mending. It means not only are you chasing 1 person 2 other are uselessly healing so the OTR person can take a protection hit? Why even heal.
Sooooo, you know how endurance works with healthy survivors, right?
Unless the healthy survivor gets hit with an one-shot attack like Hillbilly's saw, the survivor gets injured, keeps the endurance effect, and is NOT in the deep wounds status effect.
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@DaSonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004621#Comment_4004621
Ah yes "weaponizing" a perk where you need to be actively useless for 80 seconds and don't progress the game, crazy good weapon there.
Huge strawman argument.
Survivors that were weaponizing OTR, weren't literally doing nothing for 80 seconds. If a killer is in a chase when the OTR survivor is unhooked, then the OTR survivor was potentially getting healed, and then would immediately run towards the killer to try to interrupt the chase.
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@solidgamer44 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004621#Comment_4004621
I literally explained why Off the Record as a weapon makes zero sense, it's very inefficient just say you want to be able to tunnel without any repercussions at this point if you were talking about Styptic I could see your point about endurance but saying Off the Record is used offensively is a problem is actually just a skill issue or you want to be able to tunnel tbh.
Endurance can be problematic but saying Off the Record is an offensive tool is just a really bad take dawg.
Your explanation of "it's very inefficient" is invalid. You can explain it 5 times, and it would be incorrect 5 times.
If tunneling is bad, then we shouldn't have things in the game that encourage recently-hooked survivors to get in chases with the killer.
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@solidgamer44 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004596#Comment_4004596
This take is really bad, Off The Record isn't a weapon lmao any survivor using it that way is just wasting the most precious resource in dbd (TIME) can't do any gens, can't heal still gotta mend after getting hit.
DS cant even be considered a weapon unless you tunnel bro and its more like a pepper spray lmao.
Survivors were absolutely weaponizing the endurance effect of Off the Record, by aggressively bodyblocking against killers that were trying to chase someone else. Endurance effects are just too exploitable, and should be minimized.
And seriously, I don't care at all if OTR survivors can't repairing or initiate heals. Because if their goal is to weaponize the perk, they don't need to do either of those things.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004543#Comment_4004543
Correct, just like slowdown mechanics don't need to involve gens at all.
I fail to see how that is relevant to you refusing to call those changes what they are. They are bug fixes, some benefit Ghoul, some do not. Call them bug fixes and let's leave it there.
No. I will say the changes make the killer weaker, because that is what they did.
I refuse to use this game's bizarre definition of nerf, that is completely different from other games.
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It fixes the problem where survivors were weaponizing the endurance effect against killers that were trying to chase someone else.
DS still needs to be fixed so it can't be weaponized, but this is a good start.
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@Shaddoll_Serpent said:
So, why did Off The Record still get nerfed? I'm very confused.
Because survivors keep weaponizing the endurance effect, against survivors that were trying to chase someone else.
Survivors weaponizing DS should be fixed too
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004476#Comment_4004476
Seems like a decent portion of those are also buffs, since you want to argue semantics.
Didn't you recently make a post saying that anti-loop mechanics don't need to actually involve loops at all?
@BlackRabies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004416#Comment_4004416
What if the tunneling/slugging penalties were tied to the number of gens completed? Hard tunneling and slugging is most problematic for the early game, but once it's mid/late game the killer might be forced to rely on those tatics for a chance to make a comeback. At 5 /4 gens the penalty is active and there's a chance to punish the killer if they want to tunnel someone out or slug everyone. When 2 gens are left it's turned off maybe 3(?) so the killer can have a chance for a comeback without forcing a lose-lose situation on them in the survivor's favor.
Survivors would just 99% generators to exploit this. Number of generators also doesn't make sense, because it doesn't apply to both sides of the game. If killers aren't supposed to do things at 5 gens, then survivors shouldn't be supposed to do certain things at 0 hooks.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004463#Comment_4004463
It's still incredibly bad faith to argue that he got 37 changes when the majority are just bugfixes.
It's even more bad faith to argue that BHVR literally made 0 changes.
A lot of those changes made the killer weaker. I'm not interested in semantic games, where this game has a bizarre definition of nerf, that doesn't match other games.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
…and greatly increased breaking speed.
Which still doesn't sound anywhere near as exciting or innovative than remote generator repairs.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004443#Comment_4004443
Those are primarily bug fixes? Not balance changes.
They include changes that make the killer weaker.
It's very different from the "BHVR literally made zero changes" claim.
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@UnicornMedal said:
If I'm being completely honest, if this proposed change were to roll through, Killers would start running Deerstalker by default and then they'd get upset about that and anti-slug would be scaled back. Even then, being able to crawl away would do very little to solve the larger problem of player fatigue. Survivors need more agency in situations where slugging is used beyond a simple catchup mechanic, which is what anti-slug was proposing. You can argue that they're the power role, which I disagree with, but that doesn't change the fact that slugging does more than it should and it's incredibly boring for the other side.
And killers need more agency for being able to hook survivors, so they aren't forced to slug as much.
The anti-slugging PTB wanted to punish killers for slugging, but also made it more likely the killer would be forced to slug, which is a horribly unfair combination.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004443#Comment_4004443
and none of them mattered because they didn’t address his real issues
Does that mean it would be ok to revert all of Ghoul's nerfs, since according to you, they aren't meaningful?
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004440#Comment_4004440
should’ve went live with zero changes so you can take months to acquire data to make adjustments just like you guys are doing with the ghoul. Oh wait this is for survivors.
Ghoul went live with 37 changes.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004417#Comment_4004417
Werent the timers for the afk crows nerfed into irrelevance?
Its funny how killers are blamed for the ptb backlash yet people ignore this.
Yes. AFK crows were nerfed into irrelevance, because of survivor complaints.
Excessive hiding is officially considered a problematic behavior, which is why we were supposed to have an anti-hiding update.
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@Foggyguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004305#Comment_4004305
So what happens when you consider that most killers are going to be playing A and S tier characters that can easily slug everyone and there's not really much that can be done?
You can realize that most killers are average MMR, and aren’t perfectly playing killers. And some of the “S-Tier” killers really aren’t that good at average MMR.
The community tier lists aren’t useful at all for average MMR, because they are based on the skill levels of 8000+ hour comp DBD players. Average MMR really should have its own tier list.
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I wish there was a good form of Anti-Hiding (AFK Crows) and Anti-Ragequitting (Go Next). We were supposed to have this in phase 1, and it’s still not here.
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
"Reasonable", doing this and doing nothing would give the same results, this is pointless. PTB had some good stuff like elusive effect and hiding hook notification, they need to bring it back just better and less complex that's all
and hopefully they give us enough time to test it next ptb, no matter what you do people are going to complain so just keep going, don't drop the ball after only 2 days
People didn’t need more time to test it. The changes weren’t magically going to become acceptable just because more time had passed. It only takes a few games to realize how awful the changes were, and how awfully weak the killer rewards were for not tunneling.
And let’s be real, if BHVR waited 3 weeks, and dropped the changes then, the same people would still be complaining.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004193#Comment_4004193
I know.
And that's what my response was also referencing. It can matter very little for killers while still mattering a lot for survivors.
The reality was that the anti-slugging changes were a HUGE deal, and we had people telling they were “barely noticeable” because they wanted to downplay the changes, to make the changes more likely to get implemented into the game.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004181#Comment_4004181
But it wasn’t a small chance.
That's not what you were saying in the post I replied to.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004183#Comment_4004183
Technically, yes, though I'd never thought about it like that. Hooks don't last as long though, fortunately, and they're a critical part of the gameplay flow.
I never said the anti-slugging was barely noticeable. I was criticizing someone else’s logic, because they simultaneously wanted us to believe the anti-slugging was super important for survivors but also barely noticeable for killers.
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The perk doesn’t need to be nerfed for normal uses. Excessive killer stunning and excessive killer blinding is what should be nerfed, since it’s well beyond normal gameplay.
As in, if a solo q survivor is using Head On, then that’s fine. But if a coordinated SWF is trying to see how many Head On stuns they can get in the same match, because they think it’s funny, then that is what needs to be nerfed.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004146#Comment_4004146
A slugged survivor generally has nothing to play for, so giving them a chance, even if it's a slim one, will make a large difference for the player experience.
But it wasn’t a small chance. Survivors zoomed so quickly while slugged, that if a killer was forced to slug a survivor to chase a teammate, there was a big chance the slugged survivor would be long gone by the time the killer got back.
And the fact that Deerstalker got reworked, showed that BHVR wanted slugged survivors to be extremely difficult to find, which means killers would be punished for any slugging at all, even if the survivors forced the killer to slug.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004139#Comment_4004139
It's rare that survivors can actively force a slug. And 90 seconds is a LONG time. A survivor is capable of finishing a gen if you are "forced" to slug for 90 seconds without you achieving anything. At that point, you are making a mistake as a killer. At that point, it's best to still just pick up the survivor even without anti-slug at play. In fact, anti-slug might actually help you, because it would turn a slug you cant pickup, into a slug that you can pick-up. Sometimes, its a good thing to pick up a survivor, knowing they would be pallet saved, because it would save you more time and grant more pressure over time than trying to bleed them out.
But once again, 90 seconds is a LONG time.If “90 seconds is a LONG time”, then anti-slugging doesn’t need to happen. Why should BHVR implement an anti-slugging solution that would majorly upset killers, but would “barely help” survivors at all?
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4004093#Comment_4004093
Twins is affected the most, and while all killers are affected, that wasnt entirely tr. Killers got haste and kick bonusses for each non-sequential hook, and a permanent kick bonus if everyone is hooked once will easily compensate for those 3-4 games where slugging is a neccesity
If survivors force a killer to slug, then haste and kick bonuses won’t help at all, because the killer still won’t be able to hook that survivor, and the killer can still get punished by anti-slugging.