Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
About
- Username
- Coffeecrashing
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009440#Comment_4009440
Crawling under a pallet sounds like a defensive action so not sure what the problem is there.
Additionally, the idea that each perk should fall into a specific category and just do that one thing is very strange as well.
Anti-slugging mechanics should only punish problematic slugging. One of the biggest problems with this PTB was that the anti-slugging mechanics were punishing slugging even if it wasn't problematic. It's one of the reasons why the PTB got reverted.
Another reason why the PTB got revert was because the anti-tunnelling mechanics were punishing tunneling even if it wasn't problematic.
That's the entire lesson from this PTB. Anti-tunneling, Anti-slugging, and Anti-camping mechanics, should not punish the killer if the killer wasn't being problematic.
-
@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009568#Comment_4009568
Survivors aren't forced to repair generators, but the Killer can force them not to by making them do other things, like chasing, healing, cleansing hexes, etc. The Killer can chase the Survivors off the gens, meaning Survivors doing the generators (or not) is entirely within the Killer's control.
If survivors doing generators was completely within the killer’s control, then the survivor team would never win a game.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009585#Comment_4009585
That’s not relevant. Being literally forced to do something, isn’t a requirement for something to be unfair.
So what makes these perks unfair when the killer can just choose not to engage with them?
According to that logic, it would be 100% fair if a killer perk made totems take 5 minutes to break or bless, because survivors could choose not to engage with them.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009577#Comment_4009577
Then these perks don't deserve any nerfs for being used 'offensively'. After all, the killer can always choose to just ignore the person with it, even when they try to bodyblock and take hits.
That’s not relevant. Being literally forced to do something, isn’t a requirement for something to be unfair.
@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009568#Comment_4009568
Wait, I apologize, I must have missed something. How many totems does a survivor have to break to be able to progress the game? Does it actually power the gates or does it just create a secret special hatch for that one person?
Survivors are never literally forced to repair. We’re talking about extreme hyperboles, because the person I was responding to was making extreme hyperboles about killers.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009568#Comment_4009568
You can't be serious with this line of argumentation, surely?
100% serious.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009529#Comment_4009529
I said 'if', not 'right now'.
And no, doing gens is not in survivors' control. They are not given any other option.
Survivors aren’t literally forced to repair generators. Surely they can heal teammates, unhook teammates, be chased by a killer, break totems, and a bunch of other things.
Nothing in the game actually forced a survivor to repair if the survivor doesn’t want to. The survivor always has the choice to click that M1 button
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009440#Comment_4009440
If they're 100% defensive they should be basekit. You shouldn't have to blow perk slots on things that are 100% in the killer's control.
But it's not always 100% in the killer's control, which is the problem.
If a survivor uses Tenacity to IMMEDAITELY crawl under an undropped pallet, literally before the killer can pick up the survivor, then it's not in the killer's control.
And if 100% defensive perks should be basekit, then gen defense perks should be basekit too, right? Repairing generators is 100% in the survivors control, right?
-
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009501#Comment_4009501
I think you're the only person on the planet who's unironically asking for a Tenacity nerf of all things.
Congratulations on having a completely unique take, I guess.
There were other people that gave PTB feedback, that the increased crawling speed was punishing killers even if the killers weren't excessively slugging for long periods of time.
And if Tenacity has the increased crawling speed buffed, but also delayed by 10 seconds, then it should make almost everyone happy. Because the perk would be buffed over for actually problematic slugging, but wouldn't be weaponizable against killers that have only slugged the survivor for 0.5 seconds.
-
@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009298#Comment_4009298
You are allergic to Survivor perks doing anything useful at all, it seems.
I don’t like it when defensive perks are used offensively. This is the perfect time to fix these issues.
OTR should get a new effect, but still not have an endurance effect, so the perk can’t be used offensively.
And Tenacity should get crawling speed back, but delayed by 10 seconds, so the perk can’t be used offensively.
-
@DaSonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009461#Comment_4009461
That is not using the perk "offensively" that is using the perk "normally". Again like… the survivor used a perk slot that could have also been DS or whatever to get that niche bonus, you need to always put it in perspective. Let them have that value.
If a Killer uses Forever Entwined for example, and picks up the survivor just fast enough for the other survivor to miss the pallet save, did the Killer use that perk offensively? No. He just used it normally. I used that perk in particular because I'd argue it has similar if not slightly more value than Tenacity per game (If you can even reasonably compare survivor and killer perks in terms of value). And again, instead of that the Killer could have used DMS or whatever if he doesn't already, so like… Let them have that value.
But it is using the perk offensively.
It was a normal way survivors used the perk, but it’s still using the perk offensively. And it’s still punishing a killer for slugging, even though the killer hasn’t even slugged the survivor for 5 seconds.
-
@DaSonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009453#Comment_4009453
Wait which perk is called "Tunneling" again? Come on. You are trying to compare perks with playstyles, stop Straw-manning. If a killer uses pop on the gen with 99 progress you know what? Good for them.
Also in what world is Tenacity an "unfair" perk lol. Pick the survivor up and it did literally nothing. Check the surrounding area for survivors waiting to save, and the slugged survivor is probably still under that same pallet. In order to get value from it, the Killer has to act to allow for value to happen, not the survivor. You are way overblowing the effect of tenacity, you make it sound like a must have meta perk when in reality you mostly use it in some memey power struggle flip flop build most of the time.
Tenacity is sometimes used offensively, to immediately crawl under an undropped pallet.
As in, if the survivor didn’t have Tenacity, then the killer could have immediately picked them up before the survivor got under the undropped pallet.
But Tenacity’s increased crawling speed allowed the survivor to get under an undropped pallet before the killer could pick them up.
-
@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009072#Comment_4009072
xeno's turrets would be better as motion trackers then flame turrets as for frank stone the concept of a camera is fine but it should 1 have a downside and 2 maybe transform frank stone into his "final" form (and his spectral form would be the one you could use the cameras on)
“Survivors fight back” items are massively unfun for killers. Why would a killer want to deal with that garbage, when they could just pick a killer that doesn’t have a “survivors fight back” item?
-
@DaSonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009440#Comment_4009440
Yeah and in 0.5 seconds a slugged survivor won't get very far with tenacity, neither will he in 10 seconds really, definitely not far enough to lose track of him or his blood trail. If they reach a pallet due to tenacity, like… good for them? They literally used a perk slot to get that benefit.
If you ever complain that a killer does something unfair, can we say “good for them”?
If a killer tunnels you out of the game, then good for them!
-
@DaSonic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4009298#Comment_4009298
I swear every single form of counterplay a survivor can have is a "weapon" to be "weaponized". 😭
Defensive perks should be 100% defensive. If a survivor is slugged for 0.5 seconds, that isn’t problematic slugging, and anti-slugging perks shouldn’t be punishing that.
-
@GreySkies said:
This perk got completely gutted for no reason at all. I'm assuming it's simply screwed over by the remnants of the PTB involving the anti-slugging changes, but since those changes did not go through, this perk should be reverted, at least somewhat.
Bring back the crawling and recovering option. It's small, but it's something to counter slugging killers. There is no reason for the perk to hide your aura when this effect counters the old deerstalker - which no longer exists. This was also my favorite perk to run for fun so it's really upsetting to see :(Tenacity should get the increased crawling speed added back, but delayed by 10 seconds, so that it's actually anti-slugging, and not "let's weaponize the perk to immediately crawl under an undropped pallet" perk.
-
I really don’t think most people realize just how powerful some of the current killers would be on the old maps.
Did everyone forget how easy it was for Nurse to blink at checkspots, back when the object clutter was severely limited?
Did everyone forget how easy it was for Huntress to long range hatchet survivors, when the object clutter was severely limited?
Did everyone forget that maps used to have so many huge dead zones, that Blight had to be careful to which direction he rushed, because he might not find another object to bounce off of before his rush times out?
-
@[Deleted User] said:
The thing with the mushrooms is also the one thing I cannot really wrap my brain around. It feels weird and I don't really think she needs this "buff".
The rest of the changes seem ok.
But.
The main issues to me are and were:
- Unhooked survivors keep Leeched I, they should make it work like Wesker's infection. The way it works now it just screams hard tunneling all over the place.
- It does not seem that they fixed the issue that head form can basically move her head up or down while picking up to make flashlight saves impossible.
If it worked like Wesker, then an unhook would revert to 1%, and the leeched meter would automatically (slowly) rise to 100%.
-
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008976#Comment_4008976
Blight nerfs were not so big because he is still top 2 killer, the killers that are being buffed two last years are mostly weaker killers maybe only pyramid is exeption and if you want to make game more balanced and give survivors solid buffs in basekit untitunnel etc. then killers shouldnt have this big gab like between blight and trapper it makes balancing for maps,perks and everything hard because one is effected very little and other one is destroyed by these changes thats why they want to close the gab between killers power scale (there will be always someone the weakest killer but if all killers are ballanced around current +a-tiers and b-tiers killers then its way easier for devs give survivors some good stuf).
If the Blight nerfs “were not so big”, then it should be fine if BHVR reverted every nerf they’ve ever given Blight, right?
And if BHVR reverted all these nerfs, you wouldn’t complain, because they “were not so big”???????
-
@Emeal said:
BHVR you faced some backlash when you announced the Frank Stone Skin, Any chance Frank Stone could still come as a Killer and not a simple Skin? I mean he is pretty cool especially with the whole "counterplay with hand held cameras", it has potential.
Reminds me of playing Wraith back in the day when he was countered with flashlights.
Im not so sure removing that counter play was a good idea, but then again I might just be in the minority on that.
But my take is, a Killer with a weakness allows them to be more powerful so they can fight that counter play.Either way, I think a lot of us think Frank Stone is cool enough to be made into a regular Killer.
its all about finding a spot in your busy schedule and trust me, I know how yours look in the near future.
I hope for the best and wish you luck.That doesn’t actually work, because of what BHVR did with Xeno.
The turrets are miserable for Xeno to deal with, and Xeno’s M2 isn’t allowed to be powerful, and is still unreliable because survivors can dodge it.
That means Xeno is balanced around the turrets not existing, but still needs to deal with the turrets, which is ridiculous.
-
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008216#Comment_4008216
But guaranteed hits are bad as well imo. The survivor experience has to be considered as well and nobody likes to have 0 agency.
The possibility to avoid a hit should be there. Look at demo for example. There are many situations, where the shred can possibly hit the survivor and it comes down to a mindgame whether or not the hit lands. Will the survivor take a step to the right/left? Will they just run straight?
Obviously demo cannot even get a hit in many situations, but that is besides the point im trying to make.
Edit: when did I talk about how good or bad Myers's dash was? My post was about dash based powers in general and how giving every new killer / reworked killer one makes killers overall less unique.This is a short ranged melee attack, so it should absolutely be guaranteed if aimed perfectly throughout the entire attack.
Again, a short ranged melee attack is ABSOLUTELY USELESS if it's not reliable, because the killer would always be better off just using a regular M1 lunge instead.
There are enough killers that can guarantee hits with their dash abilities, that there's absolutely zero reason to ever play a killer with an unreliable special ability.
-
@Mandy said:
We are working on changes to MMR - which will then help with matchmaking. It's something that's currently being worked on, and naturally it's going to be a pretty big implementation given that MMR affects every part of the game, so it's definitely not something we can just rush out.
Matchmaking is currently working as intended, players are matched within a few points of their actual MMR score - I think the frustrations that some people feel are down to the MMR itself.
I don’t understand how the average player is expected to notice a difference, if they aren’t allowed to see the actual MMR numbers.
For example, if BHVR makes survivor MMR a lot more team-based, how would the matchmaking itself feel different for the average player?
I think average players would only notice if the changes are extremely drastic, like major attempts to stop players from having large losing streaks.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008576#Comment_4008576
not run into the killer in the first place
They deleted distortion and introduced "anti hiding" measures.
They specifically and deliberately want survivors to be easy for the killer to find.
Why do you keep mentioning the anti hiding measures, when it’s well known they got massively nerfed and they’re currently fairly useless?
That’s like saying tunneling is 100% fine right now, because anti-tunneling changes were made and then reverted
-
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4008165#Comment_4008165
The splash shouldn't be changing direction dependant on the survivor location.
I really wish the game could have powers work differently when a controller is used.
Mouse and keyboard players really don’t need the spit to auto-aim, but controller players absolutely should have some amount of auto aim, because trying to aim that tiny projectile with a controller is a horrible experience.
-
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007966#Comment_4007966
I dont like the strike. You dont like the strike. There are however people out there, that really enjoy dash-based powers. BHVR has, very obviously, catered to these people for a majority of recents killer powers and reworks, as many of them feature a dash-based mechanic.
Sadly, this gets old fast for me personally. Some killers just dont fit that mold that they try to squeeze them in and i think Myers is one of them.I really enjoy dash based powers that are reliable. For example, if I perfectly aim Blight’s dash, then I get a hit.
Unreliable dash based powers are unenjoyable, even if they include a dash. Because if I perfectly aim a dash, it should guarantee a hit. And if a survivor can dodge a dash on reaction, that means the dash is useless and the killer would be better off doing a M1 lunge instead.
This was the reason why PTB Krause was absolute garbage. Her PTB dash was so unreliable that bots would perfectly dodge it on reaction.
-
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007717#Comment_4007717
I highly doubt this is the case. The last time the devs just let something simmer, we got the biggest embarrassment of this game's history: letting the streetwise bug exist for almost a week despite the community opinion. I highly doubt they want to repeat such a negative experience for everyone involved.
That’s exactly what I’m saying though….
The phase 2 changes got reverted because of killer complaints.
Tenacity is getting reverted because of survivor complaints.
It’s the exact same situation.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007687#Comment_4007687
So do you then agree that the DMS nerf was unrelated to the tunnel changes and thus irrelevant to their reversion?
I think the DMS nerf was related to the phase 2 changes, but BHVR purposely didn't nerf some of the perks, to see what the reaction would be.
A nerf getting reverted, isn't proof that it was always intended. Do you think the anti-tunneling changes were never intended because they got reverted? Obviously, tenacity got changed back because of the complaints, and not because that was always the plan.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007589#Comment_4007589
But it is impossible that DMS was changed in disregard of the tunnel/slug changes?
It's more likely that DMS was kept nerfed to see how the player reactions would go, and people failed to care enough, so it will probably stay nerfed.
-
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007533#Comment_4007533
What?
So now you're making the claim that BHVR did this intentionally with no patch note saying it is intentional? Please excuse my candidness, but it really sounds like you're grasping at straws with this. They've also posted on twitter that tenacity will be reverted in an upcoming update to restore its functionality.
I'm claiming that sometimes BHVR just throws changes at the wall, just to see which changes stick, and which changes get so many complaints that they end up getting reverted.
-
@Xray said:
If i remember right the reason why the Uroborus infection was removed on hook was to prevent tunneling so why does it stay for Krasue? In fact its worse then wesker's infection cause you get broken instead of hindered. So you kinda just made a better Wesker.
I though Wesker's infection gets set to 1% when a survivor is unhooked, which is different from it being removed?
So the equivalent action would be Krasue's infection getting set to 1% (in tier 1) when a survivor is unhooked?
-
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007345#Comment_4007345
I didn't talk about gen regression in my original post. It was only about tenacity. But it is also true of what @Firellius said: the gen regression perks that were nerfed to accommodate their base kit counterparts both were reverted to their states prior to the PTB. This was not the case for tenacity. Tenacity's main function of recovering while crawling is currently not in the game because the system that made it base kit was reverted, and tenacity wasn't reverted back, which is where the functionality was lost. This has nothing to do with perk nerfs or reverts for balancing. This has only to do with a perk's functionality being removed from the game due to an oversight or deliberate choice. I never said anything about "well because the killer perks got reverted, so should tenacity." This is purely only about tenacity, and later in the discussion how the other instance of system reverts, which just so happened to be the gen regression, was fully reverted, where tenacity's was not. That has been my point this entire time.
That part should have been changed as a deliberate choice, because of the overwhelming feedback that survivors were using increased crawling speed to punish killers that weren't excessively slugging.
Tenacity could get the increased crawling speed back, but it should be delayed by 10-15 seconds, so it's only punished extended slugging.
Because when a survivor has been slugged for 0.5 seconds, that's not extended or excessive slugging, and therefore anti-slugging shouldn't be activating that quickly. As compensation, the increased crawling speed after 10-15 seconds can be buffed. This means that overall, this new Tenacity would be stronger than the old Tenacity, except for the specific scenarios where survivors would IMMEDIATELY use the increased crawling speed to do things like crawl under an undropped pallet, to force the killer to slug the survivor.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007263#Comment_4007263
Because DMS was nerfed because of the anti-tunneling update
Source?
Where is your source that the regression perks were the ONLY killer perk changes that were made because of the phase 2 anti-tunnel/anti-slug/anti-camp changes?
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007263#Comment_4007263
Are you even reading responses at this point? Several people have explained this to you ad nauseam, yet you still are regurgitating a talking point nobody here ever said. What's more is the only person here who even remotely agrees with your assessment on the matter is yourself. Again, please reread the posts once more to gain an understanding of the topic and discussion of the thread.
You literally said "The comment about gen regression was brought about because the anti tunnel and slug systems that brought some of the regression base kit were reverted, and so were their perks, yet tenacity was not and survivors can no longer recover while crawling"
You're literally saying that because ALL the gen regression perk nerfs were reverted, that therefore tenacity's perk nerf should be reverted.
You're literally ignoring the fact that other killer perks were nerfed, and are still nerfed. You keep saying SOURCE SOURCE SOURCE, but you never gave a source to why the gen regression perks are the only perks that people should care about.
-
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007167#Comment_4007167
Why do you consistently, either by sheer coincidence or purposefully, misinterpret what people are saying on here? The whole thread was created to address tenacity. The comment about gen regression was brought about because the anti tunnel and slug systems that brought some of the regression base kit were reverted, and so were their perks, yet tenacity was not and survivors can no longer recover while crawling. DMS was not made base kit at all. It's nerf is completely isolated from the gen regression situation.
Because DMS was nerfed because of the anti-tunneling update, because the anti-tunneling update involved basekit gen defense.
This whole thread is trying to set a false narrative, that EVERY killer perk that was involved in this update, is required to be a regression perk.
-
OTR should just get some other anti-tunnel effect, that doesn’t involve endurance.
OTR should be a defensive only perk.
-
@BbQz said:
Oh I'm so sure they just forgot to revert all the perks except tenacity and OTR. Both related to anti slug and anti tunnel. They definitely didn't forget borrowed time because those extra seconds were to OP. And the killer perks all got reverted.. maybe it's a bug that the new killer also got extra buffs after the PTB and now killers can see hooks states to tunnel easier.
Except that all the killer perk nerfs didn’t get reverted. People keep failing to mention Dead Man’s Switch, which has one of the highest pick rates in the entire game.
-
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4007074#Comment_4007074
Because we're not talking about the other perks, we're talking about gen regression perks. That's the point. You keep trying to move the goalposts to include them, but nobody else here is talking about the other perks but you.
If we're only talking about regression perks, that means no one is allowed to mention OTR or tenacity, since neither of those perks are regression perks.
-
@Blizer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005350#Comment_4005350
I would usually agree with this philosphy, but Springtrap most people would agree was strong, but needed add-on nerfs before release (Celeberation Poster was a disgusting add-on from the PTB), but the rest of his kit was good and actually had skill expression and counterplay baked into his kit.
This on the other hand…. no I think she needs a hotfix, the only counterplay to her rn is body blocking which uhh in solo que is not gonna happen, and we both know that. Giving the killer Hug tech, nerfing mushrooms and quick cooldowns regarding her power was just… the wrong move, espically testing with the Anti-tunnel changes on the PTB (which likely affected BHVR's internal numbers, leading to her buffs)
At minimum, infection needs to be removed on hook and Hug-tech needs to be removed, its nerfs her ability to tunnel and makes it so you can counterplay on loops atleast, then i think we can wait and see how she looks.
Why is it that people should have "wait and see" for the phase 2 changes, but survivors can instantly know if Springtrap addons need to be changed and didn't need to "wait and see"?
-
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006769#Comment_4006769
You just quoted them saying "gen regression" and proceeded to take that to mean everything. That's not what it's implying at all.
What is the purpose of repeatedly saying "gen regression", and ignoring the other killer perks that are still nerfed?
Seriously, why should we care if the gen regression perk nerfs got reverted, if some of the other killer perks nerfs are still intact?
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006794#Comment_4006794
Yeah, it varies.
I'm not sure I'm seeing your point?
You literally said "On their stronger realms right now, the fog effect isn't even that bad - I had someone use one against me yesterday and it honestly wasn't awful"
Really? The fog in those screenshots "isn't even that bad"???
-
@jesterkind said:
My biggest hope is that sometime soon, we see something to equalise their effectiveness across realms. On their stronger realms right now, the fog effect isn't even that bad - I had someone use one against me yesterday and it honestly wasn't awful, I think it was on a MacMillan realm or one at around that colour scheme.
On the other hand, there are realms where they practically don't have an effect at all, iirc they're awful on Coldwind and Forsaken Boneyard.I do have other issues with the item - I heavily dislike and disagree with giving them a charge system, for one - but that's the big thing I hope to see soon.
As an aside, it is worth pointing out Fog Vials are still a pocket Distortion, which isn't nothing. Not enough obviously, but I do like that they have some variety in how they can be used. We just need that variety to actually be present by making the "fog" part consistently useful.
Actual pictures of what the fog vials sometimes look like, with zero filters.
-
@DeBecker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006496#Comment_4006496
Thats not the argument and you know that.
That's literally why someone keeps mentioning the regression perks over and over and over.
By saying "every killer regression perk nerf got reverted", it's implying that every killer perk nerf that was related to the phase 2 changes, got reverted.
-
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006458#Comment_4006458
You are trying to make this around "gen defense" when @Firellius is talking about gen regression, not the blanket idea of "gen defense." You could argue that BBQ is "gen defense" because you can focus the gens being actively worked on after securing a hook. You could argue sloppy butcher is gen defense because survivors need to spend longer healing; therefore, they spend less time on gens. "Gen defense" is too broad of a topic and can be molded to include out of scope perks, which is what's happening here.
DMS is not gen regression, which is what @Firellius has explained to you.
Because limiting the discussion to just gen regression, gives the false impression that BHVR purposely reverted all the killer nerfs, but kept the survivor nerfs intact.
That's the actual argument. And it's false, because BHVR kept some of the killer nerfs.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4006282#Comment_4006282
Yes.
Because the reason all the other perks got changed was because their aspects were basekitted. Tenacity lost the crawl because that was moved to basekit. OTR lost the endurance because that was moved to basekit. All the other regression perks lost a portion of their regression because that was moved to basekit.
Dead Man's Switch wasn't mechanically interlinked with the update at all, so I don't know why you think it's part of that group.
But again, even if you want to disagree with that, you are factually incorrect when you claim that I was wrong about what I said, because I specified 'regression perks' on top of that. You claimed they didn't un-nerf all the regression perks, so I want to know which regression perks I missed.
Because you can't argue that DMS and Leverage are regression perks.
(And you'll be hard-pressed to argue Leverage got nerfed at all)
DMS is mechanically interlinked because the anti-tunnel update involved basekit gen defense. DMS and Pop are both related to gen defense.
And you're missing the point that some of the perk changes were kept because it's better for the game. OTR is supposed to be a defensive perk, and the high number of survivors weaponizing it offensively, means it's not being used for its intended purpose.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005865#Comment_4005865
Dead Man's Switch is a gen defense perk, that was changed because of the basekit pop from the anti-tunnel update.
Leverage was changed because of the anti-tunnel update, because it was primarily used as a tunneling perk.
Firstly, my claim was that regression perks had their nerfs reverted. You claim this is incorrect by pointing to a non-regression perk, which is obviously missing the mark.
Secondly: do you have anything to back these statements up?
Because unlike with the actual gen regression perks, OTR, and Tenacity, no component of either of these perks was basekitted, so neither of their nerfs were intrinsically entangled with the tunnel and slugging changes.
What makes you think that they were changed because of the tunnel and slug changes?
Do you honestly think Dead Man's Switch was just coincidentally changed in the PTB, completely unrelated to the basekit Pop?
-
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005865#Comment_4005865
Dead Man's Switch got nerfed because of over-use.
It was like every game you'd see either Pain Res + DMS, or DMS + something else. It was rightfully brought down a peg. Not to become useless, but to become more fair.
Remember, Deadlock is 25 seconds on the most progressed gen, and that too sees a lot of use.
Grim Embrace is 10 (x3) seconds + 40 seconds for the last survivor, and that blocks EVERY gen on the map.
They also buffed Ruin, as well as Call of Brine. Not to their prime forms, but to something in the middle, that is actually usable.I also didn't mention Surge, which has also seen a massive spike in usage, and it is just as annoying as DMS. It hasn't been nerfed.
Literally, it was ONE perk that got adjusted to a more fair level.
And let's not talk about the elephant in the room, where survivors has gotten TWO perks completely gutted, but I guess you are too biased to see the full picture here.OTR is only gutted if you like weaponizing it against killers that are trying to chase someone else.
And Tenacity is only gutted if you like weaponizing it to force killers to slug. In my games, survivors are using the faster crawling speed to immediately crawl under an undropped pallet, or to immediately crawl away from a wall, so I'm stuck slugging them to look around for survivors that either want to pallet save or flashlight save.
Which means the "anti-slugging" perk is being used to force the killer to slug. The faster crawling speed should be delayed by a few seconds, so that it's not preventing a killer from immediately picking up a survivor.
And that's the big problem. Defensive perks should be defensive only. They shouldn't be weaponized against the killer.
-
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005865#Comment_4005865
If you are combining OTR and DS, you have to do NOTHING to progress the game, since both effects are lost upon healing, generators, or totems. That is more slowdown than dead man's switch could even wish for.
What is with the "NOTHING to progress the game" strawman? Do you literally imagine a survivor staring at a wall for 30 seconds before deciding to weaponize their perks?
Let's try this again. If the OTR user gets unhooked, and the killer is chasing someone else, the OTR user can either immediately run at the killer, or get healed and then immediately run at the killer. None of that requires the OTR user to initiate a heal or repair.
-
@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005674#Comment_4005674
Neither Dead Man's Switch nor Leverage are regression perks.
Dead Man's Switch is a gen defense perk, that was changed because of the basekit pop from the anti-tunnel update.
Leverage was changed because of the anti-tunnel update, because it was primarily used as a tunneling perk.
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005615#Comment_4005615
Absolutely. Do you know how many solo queue survivors there are that don't want to be tunneled?
Do you know how many survivors don't value the stealth aspect of OTR, and get frustrated that the endurance portion is useless when a killer is tunneling them off a hook? A lot of survivors don't actually value OTR as a good anti-tunnel perk. Its popularity is often with survivors that want to combo it with DS, so they can weaponize two perks against the killer.
Compare this to Dead Man's Switch, which actually is a really amazing gen defense perk, and that is the most popular type of killer perk.
-
@majoreq said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005620#Comment_4005620
Dude just take a break, you are solely on this side, and you are also wrong and making so weird statements.
"The endurance effect is a major issue, because it punishes killers if they DON’T tunnel a survivor off the hook."
Yes this punish killer who tunnel, if someone tunnel and the survivor can loop him for 60s with this endurance then its killer problem. While there is a drawback, that survivor cant help other with healing or repairing gens without losing this endurance.
Also you forgot that OTR was mentioned to be changed ONLY COZ anti tunnel was introduced, so nerfing OTR without anti tunnel is just bad decision.
Just look how many downvotes you got on every response, nobody back you up coz even killer main see that this nerf is weird in the current state.
It literally doesn't matter if an OTR survivor can't initiate heals or repair. If the killer is chasing someone when they get unhooked, the OTR user is either running straight for the killer, or they are getting healed and then are running straight for the killer.
At no point in this scenario does anyone care that the survivor can't repair.
-
@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005569#Comment_4005569
Regardless on if this is true or not- I thought we all as a community collectively agreed for the most part that just because a perk/add-on/item etc. gets used often doesn’t mean it should be nerfed?
Here’s the original claim…
“They didn't forget to un-nerf the regression perks that were impacted by the hook incentives, and while I figured there was still some weird way they just 'forgot' to do the same for the survivor side, they did cancel two perk buffs, so they did go over this.They consciously decided to keep the survivor nerfs”
So, the original response was this claim is incorrect, because BHVR didn’t actually un-nerf all the regression perks.
Dead Man’s Switch is still nerfed…. And Leverage is also still nerfed. I originally didn’t mention Leverage, because I didn’t want to deal with anyone trying to argue that Leverage “was actually buffed”, even though it’s obviously meant to be a nerf.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005455#Comment_4005455
So, just so everyone is clear on your stance in this conversation:
The perk is a major issue, but also completely trivial for the killer to both play around and disable.
Do you even read what the ai writes for you, or just press paste and post?
The endurance effect is a major issue, because it punishes killers if they DON’T tunnel a survivor off the hook.
Anti-tunneling perks shouldn’t be punishing killers that aren’t tunneling, more than they punish killers that are tunneling.
-
@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005569#Comment_4005569
Can we get a source for your perk pick rate data?
Official data proof from BHVR is not required. This isn’t a Law and Order episode.
Do you honestly think OTR has a higher pick rate than Dead Man’s Switch?