Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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This would be a lot more meaningful if it wasn’t always someone talking about how fair they play killers, for the sake of survivors.
Where are the people letting us know how fair they play survivors, for the sake of killers?
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It’s because of the repair bonus, that BHVR promised they would remove, but never did.
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@CoolerBleend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947550#Comment_3947550
Just because alot of his addons (that were added to basekit) were nerfed doesn't mean that Vecna was nerfed in fact he's a lot stronger than before cuz his Fly is 20 seconds cooldown and he can instantly use it
Fly is now better as utility, but worse for actually getting hits. And getting hits is much more important than utility.
BHVR released stats that showed Vecna as having the 2nd highest kill rate on average. They aren't going to actually buff him, when his kill rate is so high.
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@Jspect said:
Don't get the wrong idea, the recent changes were a HUGE buff, but why randomly nerf the fly-end cooldown?
Fly was by far the most skill expressive spell, now you can only really use it for distance and body blocking.
Vecna is SO close to being perfect, these are the only changes he needs (then he can be left alone forever)
- Fly doesn't cancel when going over vaults
- Revert nerfs to fly-end cooldown
- Revert Potion of Speed back to -0.35Additional changes:
- Raven's Feather duration increased to 1 second (was 0.5)It wasn't a random nerf. It was done on purpose, to weaken his ability to zone survivors with the Fly spell.
The recent Vecna changes are an overall nerf, and he was nerfed because the latest stats show him as having a really high kill rate.
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Both addons are now garbage.
Foxy's Hook is now much worse than a yellow Clown bottle.
The entire purpose of Celebrate Poster was that it was good at anti-body-blocking…. and now it's not.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947225#Comment_3947225
It's crazy how that's not what I said.
Except that's what's coming out of what you write.
You wholesale reject the idea that there may be -any- resolvable issues that are contributing to this issue, in a desperate attempt to paint ALL quitting survivors as being completely unreasonable and beyond hope.
This is useless. Ironically, you're quitting at the start, just like they are. And when you are given the advice to just quit playing, you just come back with a vengeance and reiterate the same thing that I already refuted.
This is what I mean with you having no interest in solving the issue. You're too hung up on this desire to think the worst of survivors to be interested in exploring any possible angle that isn't 'survs bad'.
STOP PLAYING.You're getting completely bent out of shape and hung up on this idea, and the reality is:
Yes, they should stop playing.
But they're human. And humans don't always do what they should. So instead of just pounding the desk and reiterating over and over again that 'they should just be better', this topic is about exploring the wide network of factors that go into this epidemic (And no, it's not just 'survs entitled') in search of solutions.
You wanna give up on that, fine, but follow your own advice and
STOP PLAYING.Anything else is just you derailing the topic.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947226#Comment_3947226
Whatever reason you think is 'valid' does not matter, because the reality is that they ARE quitting. Those reasons are valid to -them-. If you want to change that, you have to at least understand them.
The most important thing to change, is making sure people that ragequit get the DC penalties they deserve.
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There is a lot of misinformation on the internet, about how the AFK Crows and Go Next systems work.
For example, there are multiple people complaining that crows show up after 10 seconds. And I’ve watched streamer videos where they completed botched how the AFK crows work.
And some streamers are purposely making misleading clickbait videos, where they spread misinformation, because dramatic videos = $$$ for them.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947170#Comment_3947170
Okay, so you have zero interest in this topic, you don't want to learn anything and you certainly don't care if people stop quitting out of matches.
You're just here to vent more 'survs bad'.
Do it in any of the other plethora of 'survs bad' topics. This one is productive.
There’s nothing to learn here. People are ragequitting for invalid reasons, so they deserve to get DC penalties.
Being upset with game balance is not a valid reason to ragequit. Being upset that the game has changed, is not a valid reason to ragequit. I’ve read through many things that were discussed in this thread, and they aren’t valid reasons either.
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@LordGlint said:
I was testing them abit last night and saw something I dont THINK was stated about them. AFK crows dont appear if you are the last survivor. It's completely removed once it turns into a hatch game for the last guy. Not saying the system is perfect or anything... that was just a point I was seeing getting brought up in youtu.be comment sections and such, so I figured I'd let everyone know who didn't already.
Even tested it by letting someone get 3 crows. The moment hatch spawns, those crows fly off and never come back.
That is mentioned in the official patch notes (the last sentence in the above screenshot).
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
I was wondering does that count as a limited time event that doesn't contribute to your stats does anyone know?
I see Springtrap on my stats page, and I’ve only played him in the pizza map mode, so the pizza map mode counts for stats.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
This kind of attitude feels disingenuous.
I see an awful, awful lot of complaining from "killer mains" on these forums about how "entire play styles are being deleted" because they have to stand 5 extra feet back while camping.
It "how terrible it is" that they're "being punished for playing the game".
Or even "being expected to play according to an insanely strict set of artificial rules and having no autonomy".
And then the devs implement the new crows and an insane dc penalty system that does literally all of those things at once, we get posts like this. Not hyperbole of "oh no, camping is dead because I have two minutes to step away 10 feet", but literally "stealth is no longer possible in any capacity, go screw yourselves".
Take your "equal attention cake" doomposting somewhere else.
There's zero information about those phase 2 mechanics at this stage, but if there's one thing we've actually seen over and over again, it's that whatever wrist slap they decide to test in 6 months will get watered down even farther before it goes live. So calm down.
Are you literally doomposting that "stealth is no longer possible in any capacity", but also complaining that killers doompost?
Stealth isn't dead. That's a complete hyperbole. I can still hide from killers. And I’m sure other people can hide from killers too, as long as they aren’t being really excessive about it.
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@Brokenbones said:
I mean…
There's changes making your role harder and there's changes that outright punish you for things that aren't completely in your control. Like the various examples of people being warned for 'going next' because they got tunnelled which we have hard evidence can and was happening.
Imagine if Killer's had a system like that, where if they lost a match too quickly and didn't fulfill some arbitrary and hidden criteria, the game penalised them for it and claimed they weren't actually trying. How would that make you feel?
One of the examples involves anti-slugging. Many of the anti-slugging suggestions involves punishing killers, regardless if the killers chose to slug, or if they were forced to slug.
Is that fair? Should we punish killers for slugging, if the killers literally couldn't hook the survivors? For example, if a killer is forced to drop a survivor because of a hook sabotage, the killer honestly tried to hook the survivor, but was denied. Should the killer be punished for slugging in this scenario, even though they wanted to hook that survivor?
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946490#Comment_3946490
You know what the other communities will say? The same thing I say… stop playing and move on instead of ruining the experience of those who actually still enjoy it and want to play.
To be honest, I think this wouldn't really address the problem.
Let me give you an example: I am not sure if you were around for the Realm Beyond changes, but if you were someone who really enjoyed aspects of the Old DBD, like I do, the peak of the Realm Beyond changes was a miserable time to be playing the game. Basically, you would see everything you liked being changed, to a point where it felt as if you're not playing DBD anymore.
And during those days, I complained a lot. A fellow Forum member, someone I consider a good friend and a positive presence here, suggested that maybe I should take a break, just step away from DBD for a while because it seemed I wouldn't enjoy the direction the game was going. Now, I have nothing against them and never will, they suggested what they thought was best and that is perfectly okay, but I didn't want to leave the game. I just didn't want to see a game I loved become something I hated.
I personally think it is better to discuss things and try to find a solution instead of just letting go.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946476#Comment_3946476
It does seem to me, my friend, that there indeed wasn't an attempt to try and understand why the "go next" epidemic existed in the first place. I hope this discussion can help us understand it.
Super honest question. Are there any solutions that would make you happy, that don’t involve reverting things back to how they were in Old DBD?
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946390#Comment_3946390
Well, to be fair, my friend, the list of changed things you've mentioned covers almost the entirety of the survivor meta. We can also add perks like Self-Care to the list, or WGLF losing its bloodpoint bonuses, or Adrenaline getting nerfed. What did remain intact were perks like Sprint Burst and Lithe, but with the maps sorely lacking in resources the speed bonus has a chance of leading you towards a deadzone.
Personally, I never had a problem with massive amounts of DCs in the past, outside of Original Legion. Seems to me it is a "modern DBD problem", if I may put it that way.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946391#Comment_3946391
Yes, there are countless cases in the community of players replicating content creators, but I am not certain on how much influence they had on this matter in particular.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946393#Comment_3946393
Thank you, my friend! I think it is important for us to understand why this whole thing started, because otherwise it will never be fixed.
And please, my friend, do share your scenarios! Every point of view is welcome in my discussions!
Ragequitting got more popular because people learned there aren’t any real penalties, when survivors bypass the DC penalties.
A survivor could literally “Go Next” 20 times in the same day, and get 0 penalties if they used hooks to bypass the DC penalties.
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It was caused because there was a quick and easy way to ragequit, that bypassed the DC penalties.
It was also caused by streamers that would publicly ragequit whenever they didn’t feel like playing a game, which taught survivors that there aren’t any real penalties for ragequitting in small doses.
I’ve seen streamers say things like “Wraith is boring”, and then ragequit. Like, there are videos of streamers publicly admitting to ragequitting for trivial reasons, and they never got punished for it.
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@ShadowCyrax said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3B0Bdpu-28
I think I managed to get what would be considerd normal gameplay.
some things to note though
Wesker Had Thrilling and Grim Embrace
Meg was the last stack of grim
I did not touch the eastern gen because of Thrilling
I could not do any gen when Grim Activated.
Me and Sheva were second stage and did not want to trade with meg; or farm her for that matter.
I know the crow did not make a big deal, but considering I feel the play I did was nessesary it feels like I should not have gotten one. This is more for education purposes, because I had a tough time not forcing the crows.
I know it's long, but I feel it paints a better picture, if you guys have any complaints feel free to discuss what I did wrong me as well.
This is a good video. I think the issue is the player is clearly being chased for a while, but because the game didn’t consider it a chase, it didn’t remove the AFK crows.
I wonder if the AFK crows can detect chases better, because I really think the AFK points should have been reset when the killer was clearly following the player for an extended period of time.
Also, I still think AFK points should be paused if a generator is blocked.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946305#Comment_3946305
I think being arbitrarily marked afk mid match while clearly not afk and traversing the map, while the entire team is still alive is a problem.
The mechanic isn’t trying to detect if someone is AFK, it’s trying to detect if the player is committing to meaningful interactions.
Yes, “AFK Crows” was a poor naming choice, because it implies it’s supposed to happen to AFK survivors.
I think a lot of the confusion is happening because they are called AFK crows, and people are expecting to only get them if they are AFK.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946298#Comment_3946298
So at no point were they afk and were at best playing mildly inefficiently. And you think this is a successful system that should be punishing the player? Just wow...
- Like I said before, we're still missing a large part of the video. The video should have started when the person first started gaining AFK points. But we're missing that entire section of the video.
- Do you really think tapping a generator should reset AFK points to 0?
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3946265#Comment_3946265
So search it. Idc that you choose to lie. I've been presented with four videos this morning on my fyp in the span of like five minutes of players showcasing how atrocious the afk system is. It's not hard to find these videos at all and there's no shortage of people complaing about these changes. Here's another one that just showed up for me:
https://www.tiktok.com/@donnjaburn /video/7517462815876091191?_r=1&_t=ZP-8xL5KZPyJvr
Idk who you're trying to gaslight, but redirect the lame attempt somewhere else, thanks.
Just so we're on the same page here…
- Before the video started, the person in the video spent a large amount of time not committing to any interactions that would remove AFK crows.
- Then the person went to a generator, but decided not to commit to repairing it.
- Then the person went to a teammate, but decided not to commit to healing them.
- Then the person ran to a hook, but stopped before getting to the hook, even though they only had 1 crow, and they still could have unhooked and healed their teammate, because loud noise notifications don't happen at 1 crow.
What part of this video are we supposed to be angry at? Are we really supposed to believe the killer was going to interrupt them repairing a generator, AND the killer was going to interrupt them healing a teammate, AND the killer was going to interrupt them unhooking and healing the other teammate?
And why is the first half of the video missing? This person started getting AFK points a while before the video started, and that is important too.
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@Roco45 said:
People are complaining on Steam and showcasing how awful the new AFK system is on tik tok with constant vids of it literally punishing people who actually are trying to play the game. Not only that, but then the introduction of the penalty for "going next" directly rewarding tunneling Killers, is completely asinine on BHVR's part and exacerbates one of the biggest issues DBD even has, which is tunneling Killers.
The afk system needs to be removed and put back to how it was originally and the penalty for "going next" needs to be removed with hook attempts brought back. BHVR needs to stop trying to force people to stay in matches through punishing game mechanics and should start making the game actually fun to play.
We wouldn't have any of these issues if SWF and tunneling/camping Killers were balanced out accordingly with and emphasis on actually making the game enjoyable to play. Also FNAF needs to be killswitched, how this Killer got released in this state with all the game breaking bugs is absolutely astonishing.
I’ve been on TikTok, and I don’t see match videos there either.
If this is really happening so much, then why is it so hard to find match videos? And by match videos, I mean videos that show continuous game footage, starting at least a few minutes before the crows started appearing.
Seriously, why can’t someone just link us to these videos?
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Skull Merchant had a massively high win rate, regardless of the people ragequitting against her.
Springtrap definitely doesn’t have that issue. I don’t think people realize just how much easier it is to hit a survivor with a charged huntress hatchet at mid range, than Springtrap’s lobbed hatchet (which has a much worse z-axis margin of error). Huntress is also way better at punishing bodyblocking, because she has multiple hatchets, and a much lower cooldown after throwing a projectile.
And Springtrap is performing worse than pre-nerfed Ghoul, even though Springtrap has audio issues that are boosting his performance.
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@Emiloo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3945057#Comment_3945057
Yeah my idea isnt perfect, but it this new system is definitely overtuned, people shouldnt get AFK crows for healing or doing hex totems is my big issue right now.
Healing for about 12 seconds, was resetting all AFK points on the PTB, and I don’t think that was changed.
Making a progress rule for totems (i.e. cleansing a totem for 12 seconds resets AFK points) would be a problem, because survivors could use them to infinitely delay AFK crows. The survivor could just cleanse for 12 seconds, have their AFK points reset, then leave the totem.
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@Emiloo said:
The AFK crows are hilariously overtuned. One of my teammates got crows for healing me after unhooking me with leverage and the next match I got crows for waiting for a killer to stop proxy camping a hook so I could go for a rescue, not to mention how many people have complained about getting crows while doing a Hex: Thrill of the Hunt totem.
I think a good way to start to fix this is to obviously not allow the accumulation of AFK crows or the "AFK points" during any conspicuous action. If it disables all tunneling perks it shouldn't allow you to get AFK crows. Another fix is to disable AFK crows not just during endgame collapse, but after all gens are finished if the killer has a perk like No Way Out, or Remember Me, the survivor isn't punished for it. Finally the numbers definitely need to be tweaked to accumulate slower so that simply running from one side of a map to the other doesn't accumulate crows, as well as, allowing action progress on totems and chests to count in getting rid of crows, not just completing the action.
BHVR PLEASE fix this in an upcoming hotfix.
If action progress for totems removed crows, then people could use those objects to infinitely delay AFK crows.
As in, a person could cleanse a totem for 12 seconds, reset their AFK points, then stop cleansing the totem. And since the totem is still in the game, they can just go back to it the next time they want to reset their AFK points.
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People are claiming that missing skill checks while on a hook, punishes the survivor with a Go Next penalty, and that is confusing to me.
If missing hook skill checks doesn’t actually cause the survivor to unalive faster, then why does it count as a Go Next? Is this really what is happening, or did the Go Next activate for some other reason, and the player was confused on why they got a penalty?
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@littlehoot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944998#Comment_3944998
The majority of people, myself included, don't typically record our matches.
The new AFK system obviously has bugs. But even if it was working perfectly and exactly as described in the patch notes, the system would still be TERRIBLE and a detriment to gameplay.
If there are bugs with the AFK crows, then those things should definitely be fixed. But if people really are spending large amounts of time, not completing interactions, then maybe they should be getting AFK crows.
Yes, I do think there might be scenarios where fixes should be made. For example, Thrill of the Hunt might really be a problem, especially when combined with screaming perks or addons. But the solution would be to fix the bad scenarios instead of completely reverting the AFK crow changes.
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@littlehoot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944968#Comment_3944968
How lucky you must be.
Alas, thus far myself and my group of friends have all had encounters with the crows showing up when they really shouldn't, to the point of actively sabotaging our chances at escaping. So I guess you could say I'm pretty unimpressed with the system so far.
Has any of them recorded any of these matches?
Without recorded matches, I’m not sure if the AFK rules have bugs in them, or if people are spending large amounts of time not interacting with stuff but feel that they are honestly trying to progress the game.
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@littlehoot said:
Current list of situations in which myself or my teammates got crows today during less than a dozen matches:
- While running from the killer.
- While running generally
- Moments after getting into a locker, turning what would have been a safe evade of the killer into a death.
- While doing generators
- While looking for totems
- While cleansing totems
- While unhooking fellow survivors
- While healing other survivors
- While opening the exit gate
- While slugged on the ground, attempting to crawl away from the killer in order to use Unbreakable—which is impossible now because of the near instant crows snitching.
There might be bugs with the AFK crows. Being in a chase should reset AFK points. And getting slugged should reset AFK points, meaning that you should have another 70 seconds of not moving before a crow shows up.
I also wish there were some recorded matches of these issues. I haven’t been able to recreate any issues where the AFK crows were showing up earlier than I would expect them to.
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@littlehoot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943627#Comment_3943627
I mean this as respectfully as possible, but I don't know what game it is you're playing in which this AFK system is "forgiving in practice", but it certainly isn't DBD. It's been one day and either myself or my teammates have gotten crows:
- While running from the killer.
- While running generally
- Moments after getting into a locker, turning what would have been a safe evade of the killer into a death.
- While doing generators
- While looking for totems
- While cleansing totems
- While unhooking fellow survivors
- While healing other survivors
- While opening the exit gate
- While slugged on the ground, attempting to crawl away from the killer in order to use Unbreakable—which is impossible now because of the near instant crows snitching.
Numerous perks will suffer for this. Some will become borderline unusable, some will become so niche in their use they might as well be unusable. It also encourages insta-unhooks (which never benefit the survivors, only ever the killers), makes it borderline impossible to do any kind of safe unhook (because if we wait until the killer is more than a foot away to attempt an unhook, the crows snitch on us). It also basically kills any real attempt at stealth gameplay for survivors, or any kind of long game (as is necessary in things like three gen situations).
So no, I don't find the system to be "forgiving" during matches. I actually find it to be a profound hinderance to normal gameplay, as does everyone else I've spoken to who plays the game. While I understand this was an attempt at preventing AFK players to better gameplay, it is incredibly detrimental to players who are actually actively participating in the game, and quite honestly? I don't think it's something that can be 'tweaked' into working well. The best time to kill switch the new AFK system was about a minute after it was launched, but the second best time is right now.
When you got AFK crows while running from the killer, did the chase music happen?
Because being in chase is supposed to removes all the crows, so I’m wondering if the people having this issue are running away while they are so far away from the killer, that an actual chase never happens?
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944893#Comment_3944893
That‘s not a buff. Self unhooks were basekit before.
It doesn’t matter if it used to be basekit. It’s currently not basekit, and therefore this perk now has an additional new effect, that unlocks self unhooks.
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I thought we were suppose to consider this a buff and a nerf, because the perk was buffed to allow self unhooks?
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944721#Comment_3944721
That's good if true, but there's no indication of that anywhere. And unfortunately I can't simply rely on common sense since this system does punish you for other things that are also clearly gameplay.
Every other action requires "completion" of the task (chests, totems, boons, heals, etc). Gens are the only activity that counts for "partial progress", and nowhere that I've seen in any dev comments, posts, or patch notes makes an exception for, or even mentions, invocations.
That is incorrect. Healing a survivor for around 12 seconds removes all crows. And being in a chase removes crows before the chase is completed.
And I updated the invocation rule, to my forum post, a few minutes ago. Currently, doing an invocation, somewhere between 12 and 15 seconds, removes all crows. So invocations really aren't an issue.
And the patch notes aren't comprehensive. I had to test the AFK crows myself, and as far as I know, there aren't any other forum posts, Reddit posts, or Twitter posts, that made a list similar to the list I posted on the forums.
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@Matukas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944541#Comment_3944541
This is not right. The person who said it's 70 seconds (I think that was you, actually?) is wrong, it's 70 seconds plus the 50 second activity buffer which only starts after the invocation is completed. The invocation itself counts as an activity and counteracts the accumulation of crows (now as to why this isn't clearly stated in the patch notes? that's a different issue, similar to the shadow-changing of Head On).
That being said, if all this were NOT the case, it should be stated that the points you lay out are completely counter to the point of AFK crows. A player doing an invocation is not AFK (as the game currently has correctly implemented) and should not, under any circumstances, accumulate AFK points. Pick rates have absolutely no place in this discussion.
UGH. I knew I should have checked it. The PTB closed before I could check it, and then the Live custom games were bugged yesterday where the AFK crow feature was broken (regardless if the checkmark was checked).
I checked in live, and yes, somewhere between 12 and 15 seconds of an invocation removes crows. I updated the list.
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I just edited the original list…
39) Invocations have a progress rule, where somewhere between 12 and 15 seconds of progress, remove all crows. So you don't need to complete the entire invocation to remove crows.
@SoGo said:
Bringing this up again because, unfortunately, some MAJOR fine tuning is needed here.
People have reported crows appearing in chase, on hook, or while cleansing a Thrill totem.
Crows appearing in chase, or on hook, would definitely be a bug.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944489#Comment_3944489
No, that's hyperbole on my part.
It's a reference though to the fact that it does only take 10 seconds to start giving you "afk" points toward crows. So unless you work on a gen for a bit (I think 15s), fully finish healing someone, fully boon or break a totem, open a chest, or be chased by the killer, you're basically always considered to be afk until you do one of those things to reset it.
If it is truly 70 seconds for crow 1, as someone mentioned here, then the act of walking and starting an invocation will guaranteed give you at least one crow, since you'd have to finish the invocation, which alone takes 60 of those seconds.
It's listed in the patch notes only as "at 90 seconds you have 3 crows". So, depending on travel time, it could be nearly impossible to finish an invocation without giving your position away for free, which, ironically, could also mean you don't get to finish the spell either.
I don't think invocations are a good argument, considering that they have such a low pick rate (less than 1%), that I honestly don't believe they are important enough to overall the entire AFK Crow mechanic.
In order to get 3 crows while performing an invocation, the survivor would have needed to have been AFK for over 70 seconds while running to the basement, then have started the invocation after that. And if the basement chest hasn't been opened yet, the survivor could have reset their AFK points there. And if the basement has a generator above it, the survivor could have reset their AFK points there too.
Because really, if someone is AFK for over 70 seconds, and then performing an invocation for 60 seconds, then that's over 130 seconds of the survivor not completing an interaction. That's really bad. We shouldn't overall the AFK Crows, just to accommodate that.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944334#Comment_3944334
Crows aren't literally showing up in only 15 seconds are they?
No. It literally takes 70 seconds for the first crow if the survivor is standing still while not being anywhere near the killer, or 130 seconds if the survivor is moving and/or near the killer.
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@Matukas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944334#Comment_3944334
The crows honestly seem more forgiving on live than they were on the PTB, despite the text of the patch notes being (I think?) the same as it was on the PTB notes.
- They do not deactivate Head On
- The crows now seem to perch on the locker rather than fly around it, which is somewhat less noticeable before all 3 accumulate.
- Killer interactions seem to remove/prevent them
- Being in 'chase' (as in the chase mechanic) disable them
You would need to have dropped chase and hide in the locker near someone else being chased for around 2.5 minutes before you get a single crow, which I think is a pretty generous time to make a Head On play. I do still sympathize with the sentiment that the system IS overly punishing to stealth play.
The scenario I specifically have in mind is stealthing out a Corrupt Intervention for two minutes, which would give everyone crows. But as a Head On main I think this is honestly a far fairer system than the first iteration we had on the PTB, I just don't understand why the changes appear to be undocumented…
@Coffeecrashing said:
There is a lot of complaining about the New AFK Crows, but it doesn't seem like anyone knows how they actually work, so here are my notes that I've collected so far. This information is good for the sake of discussion, so people can argue if some of the rules feel unfair:
Rules for AFK Crows...
1) 10 second grace period for not doing objectives
2) At 100% AFK point speed = 1/2/3 crows at 60/75/90 seconds
3) At 50% AFK point speed = 1/2/3 crows at 120/150/180 seconds
4) Not doing any objectives and not moving = AFK points happen at 100% speed
5) Being near the killer = AFK points happen at 50% speed
6) Moving (walking back and forth in a line works, because the distance threshold isn't big) = AFK points happen at 50% speed
7) Being in chase a few seconds = removes all crows
8) Repairing a generator for 12/13/15 seconds = removes 1/2/3 crows
9) Repairing a generator when it reaches 100%, regardless of seconds spent repairing = removes all crows
10) Healing a survivor for 12 seconds = removes all crows
11) Healing a survivor when it reaches 100% of a health state, regardless of seconds spent healing = removes all crows
12) Going into the dying state = removes all crows
13) Breaking a totem = removes all crows
14) Unhooking a survivor = does not remove crows!
15) Looking through a Springtrap camera for a few seconds (maybe 12 seconds?) = removes all crows!16) Opening a chest when it reaches 100% progress, regardless of seconds spent opening a chest = removes all crows
17) Hatch spawns or End Game Collapse is triggered = removes all crows
Things I still haven't figure out:
18) Potential grace period for being unhooked?
19) Potential grace period for being healed one health state after being unhooked?
20) Potential grace period for unhooking a survivor?
21) Healing a survivor from deep wounds to injured, regardless of seconds = removes all crows???
22) Healing a survivor from dying to injured, regardless of seconds = removes all crows???23) What happens with other killer powers? Does interacting with every killer power remove crows? If I disarm a Trapper trap, does that remove crows?
24) Do flashlight saves, flashbang saves, and pallet saves remove crows?
Concerns about AFK crows:
25) The distance threshold for moving (Rule 5) should be much larger. If survivors want to run long distances to get to a generator, or find totems, or whatever, then give them the 50% AFK point speed. But if they're literally running back and forth in a line, in a corner of map, they should still have a 100% AFK point speed.
26) Looking through a Springtrap camera (Rule 14) shouldn't remove all crows. It's too easy to bypass the AFK crows when Springtrap is the killer.
27) If you start a game, and want to run all the way across the map to repair a generator, you can easily do that because you'll be at 50% AFK point speed.28) Being able to remove all crows by opening a chest, seems questionable? If the killer doesn't have the Human Greed perk, do survivors really need to be opening chests?
29) If only two survivors are alive, and one of the survivors is in the dying state, the other survivor maybe should have their AFK point speed paused. Otherwise, killers might be further encouragers to slug for the 4k, hoping the last survivor will get AFK crows before the slugged survivor bleeds out.
30) Hex totems might be an issue, as some survivors might legitimately need over 2 minutes to find a totem. Hex totems might need to always show their aura to survivors in at least a 16 meter radius, or they might need to be loud like boons, or maybe something else might need to happen, to reduce the maximum time survivors need to find a hex totem. Also, this aura reveal might need to be immune to the blindness status effect.
31) Finding generators might be an issue at some MMR levels, as some survivors might legitimately need over 2 minutes to find a generator, especially if the generator is indoors and might not easily be viewable at far distances. Maybe if the survivor has been moving a large distance for 40 seconds, the closest 3 generators can be aura revealed, and this aura reveal is immune to blindness? An alternate trigger might be a certain AFK threshold (i.e. the survivor has 3 generator auras revealed when they reach 2/3 the AFK points needed for the first crow).
32) Are there any other times where AFK points should be paused? Oni during blood rush? Myers during (non-infinite) Tier 3? Haunted grounds during the 60 seconds of exposed? Are survivors expected to repair generators during these times?
33) I'm worried the PTB AFK Crows are just going to be a knowledge check, where people that know how to loophole the system will be able to excessively hide, and the people that don't know how to loophole the system will get AFK crows.
34) If a survivor is injured with Self Care, can they move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds, heal for 12 seconds, move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds, heal for 12 seconds, move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds, heal for 12 seconds, move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds, heal for 10 seconds (hitting 100% of the healing state resets AFK crows), move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds, open a chest, and move around the corner of the map for 120-150 seconds? And if blessing totems resets AFK crows (I forgot to check before the PTB closed), can a survivor just bless a totem every 120 seconds, to have an infinite way to reset AFK crows that doesn't alert the killer?
35) When totems or Jigsaw boxes are interrupted by a scream, can the survivor have a grace period to continue the interaction? Because it would be extra unfun to get interrupted by a scream AND get AFK crows because the survivor didn't complete the interaction. Because if Jigsaw boxes had a grace period, then the AFK crow rules could be "Completing a Jigsaw box search resets AFK points". But if screaming is going to interrupt Jigsaw boxes, then the AFK crow rule might need to be "Searching a Jigsaw box for 12 seconds resets AFK points".
36) Sadako tapes and TVs are more complicated. Turning off a TV probably shouldn't reset AFK points. But if inserting a tape always removed AFK points, then someone could just run tapes over and over, to excessively hide. Maybe the AFK crow rule could be "If a survivor inserts a tape, and it removes at least 2 stacks, reset AFK points"? Would that be too confusing, or would it be expected that survivors wouldn't normally inset a tape unless they had at least 2 stacks?
37) Victor will be able to start chases next patch, and I’m assuming this is so Victor can reset AFK points. This is a huge nerf for Victor, and it would be much better if being within a certain distance of Victor reset AFK crows, so that he wouldn’t need to start chases. Victor relies on not having chase music so he can avoid pallet stuns, because he can currently hear if a survivor ran past an undropped pallet, or if they stopped running right after the undropped pallet. Remember that Victor getting pallet stunned is much more punishing that of any other killer got pallet stunned, because it completely removes Victor, and places Victor on a long cooldown, and Charlotte is often somewhere far away at that point and has wasted a bunch of time. Twins are easy has a really low pick rate, and we don’t need to make it worse, by removing Victor’s ability to avoid pallet stuns.
38) Should AFK points be paused when a generator is blocked? If Grim Embrace blocks all generators for 40 seconds, then AFK points really should be paused. But what if Dead Man’s Switch blocks a generator that a survivor was recently repairing. Are they be expected to find another generator, or should their AFK points be paused so they wait for the generator to be unblocked?
39) Do invocations have a progress rule (i.e. reset AFK points after 12 seconds of invocation progress) or a completion rule (i.e. reset AFK points after an invocation is completed)? If invocations don’t have any progress rules, then it would be possible to gain all three crows while actively doing an invocation.Above is the list I created for the PTB, and so far, it seems like it's still good.
Also, crows were perching on lockers in the PTB.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
Here is what I’ve noticed from the games I’ve played so far:
- You seem to get AFK crows even while in CHASE which is absolutely ridiculous. Who tf is stopping to do a gen mid chase?! How do I know this? See #2
- You also get crows on hook. I had 3 of them within 20-30 seconds on hook which means I was accumulating the “ points” while in chase.
Overall this addition is bad. The game isn’t just touching gens. If getting chased accumulates these points then the message is that only ONE part of the game matters.
As other people have stated, sometimes doing generators is not the optimal thing to do. Perfect example: mid game you that the killer has Hex: Devour Hope. Your main objective at this point is to find that totem. Now with having to search for it while still avoiding the killer, this can take some time. Now the game is basically saying no don’t go look for that totem or we’ll give you crows. Just stay on generators and effectively screw yourself.
As with everything that gets done to this game, there is like zero thought put into it as to how it will overall affect the health of the game.
There was literally nothing wrong with the way AFK crows worked before. What we have now is just completely ridiculous.
Both those things should be bug reports.
Being in chase is supposed to remove all AFK crows. And AFK crows shouldn't appear on hooked survivors.
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@LordGlint said:
If it's getting a rangebuff, i see the batteries changes as completely fine. It means it'll kick in abit sooner, which would probably result in getting hits you would've gotten with the 7% version anyway while getting benefit in cases you mightve been abit too far away in other times.
When BHVR says a perk is being changed because it was too oppressive, it should be understood that the new version is supposed to be weaker.
It feels like whenever BHVR buffs and nerfs something at the same time, a lot of people just aren't able to figure out if it's an overall buff or nerf, and just says 1 buff + 1 nerf = side grade.
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@Orthane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943046#Comment_3943046
He also can't down you with said attack, Nurse and Blight can.
It doesn't change the fact that Ghoul didn't get the restriction because he has a dash. That's not the trigger condition. It doesn't open a slippery slope that all dash killers should get the same restriction.
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@CoolerBleend said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943074#Comment_3943074
If you use multiple Shoulder the Burdens in a match it will completely screw the hook UI like me and a SWF all used it and we ended up having what looked like 8 STB hook states
From the killer point of view, when a survivor died, the golden stripes would finally appear, but sometimes it felt that way too many golden stripes would appear.
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It’s objectively a nerf, because it was giving too many “free hits”. Some streamers were using it in their winstreak builds.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943159#Comment_3943159
it means u don't know the full addon combo. Believe me. It's same power. Especially if u take certain perks w it
I don’t believe you.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943103#Comment_3943103
Yes. Sure. Iri addons are sometimes like that. But if you want that experience, Legion is even better then blight with certain addons on Gideon. And it's still in the game…
That’s not anywhere near as powerful.
Legion’s addon requires them to be in Feral Frenzy, and after breaking a pallet, they need to cancel their power (which stuns them in place), and then chase the survivor as an M1 killer.
Meanwhile, Blight didn’t need to be in a special mode, and he would recharge to full tokens during the pallet break animation… which meant he was able to immediately start his high mobility M2 power.
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It’s because aim dressing makes proximity checks, that can forbid a killer from lunging, and can forcibly end a lunge early, and can forcibly yank a killer’s camera.
And these proximity checks happen BEFORE the hit validation check.
This means aim dressing functions as an auto-aim, because it’s making changes to attacks before hit validation occurs.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943061#Comment_3943061
I played at that time a lot. I remember. Sure. Nurse/Blight/Spirit were strong. But if you were really good, you could e.g. lightburn nurse. If you predicted right, u do it during chase and force her to fatigue! That was cool. Yet for some reason it needed to go (WHY?!?!? It was exactly high elo counter - a place where she always dominated and still does)
For all the other killers, resources. Even blight looses some time on pallet break. Those times were goated.
But you were right about spirit. Still… It wasn't that bad. She was 1 killer and she wasn't instawin too. Even though you are right that she was boring for survivors (you had 0 input for doing guesses)
Blight probably isn’t a good example either. He had full object sliding back then, which meant he could slide across a wall, make a 90 degree angle turn, and continue sliding across the next wall. The older maps were also mostly smooth vertical walls, at convenient 90 degree angles, that were easily to slide across. And this is before BHVR started adding anti-blight clutter to loops.
Also, he had a fast pallet breaking addon back then, that I would combine with The Game map offering, and I think my win rate was pretty much 100% when the map offering was accepted. It turns out that when almost every resource on a map is a pallet, and the killer can super quickly break pallets, that the survivors didn’t really have much counterplay at all.
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This perk is super bugged right now. It also doesn’t show killers the golden stripe (hook counter) when the perk is activated.
I’m not sure why the perk is bugged, but it’s currently bugged in ways that are frustrating for both sides of the game.
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This will just end up being a Knowledge Check for survivors.
If a survivor has so much extra time, that they don’t need to immediate leave the trial, then can open the gate to like 80%, wait a few seconds, then check if the exit gate regressed at all. Because if it didn’t regress, then they don’t have to worry about the perk.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942977#Comment_3942977
Mostly agree with you.
Imo, the add-on selection she has is pretty awful.
Most of her chase add-ons are worthless.
Fixing Houndmaster’s search, might raise her kill rate enough that she can’t get addon buffs. He entire map mobility mechanic (the search function), is super clunky, and often just doesn’t work correctly if the killer isn’t trying to move to a generator.
And the Houndsense addons might be more useful if Houndsense itself was more useful. I’ve seen streamers play this killer, and most of them don’t even bother to try to purposely inflict Houndsense on the survivors, because they think it’s not worth the time and effort.
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@dbd900bach said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943046#Comment_3943046
That's not how it works. Ghouls first hit goes over pallets and can only injure with ridiculous range but is only partially the reason his power goes on cool down since its so easy to hit a survivor with it. The biggest issue is distance and Ghouls M1 after canceling his power. Killers like Nurse, Blight and Ghoul can instantly catch up despite being stunned, so if they pallet break, the survivor actually gets value in distance rather than immediately being punished for using a pallet. Before his nerf Ghoul can just break and land on top of the survivor seconds later. It was even worse with pallet breaking perks like Brutal and Fire Up.
That still means Ghoul’s restriction shouldn’t apply to Nurse or Blight.
Because Nurse and Blight already have a long “can’t attack” cooldown, when their power cancels.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942989#Comment_3942989
I was playing around that time. And the game was way more manageable. There were many more resources and things to work with. Sure enough, some things were missing (camping bubba was almost guarantee no matter how bad he was, BT was required on every single survivor, etc), but the game overall was MUCH BETTER.
I enjoyed that version of DBD very much. I am sour towards today's DBD
Resources didn’t mean as much, when Nurse had range and recharge addons, and the outdoor maps had so few line of sight blockers, that trying to counterplay Nurse was awful.
Resources also didn’t mean as much, when Spirit had zero directional audio, and everything really was a guessing game for the survivors.
The biggest difference with older DBD, is that the grade based matchmaking was so bad, that even though survivors had a lower escape rate, they had a higher percentage of games where they clearly won without struggling at all.
The other big difference was that before the hatch rework, if a survivor brought a key, or found a key in a chest, they didn’t need to worry about 3-gen or getting slugged for the 4k, because keys often bypassed both those mechanics.