Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958665#Comment_3958665
still better than medkits/toolboxes/anything else, cmon
vs fog vials just use game sense and follow the person, it's not like they can teleport.
i played vs fog vials on that old halloween event and it was pretty doable and according to devs fog vials arent going to be as efficient
”Game sense” is a fake term. There’s no visual, scratchmarks, audio, or aura reading. What exactly am I suppose to base the game sense off of? Psychic powers?
How am I supposed to follow one specific person, when multiple people are purposely running through the same area, trying to confuse the killer into chasing the wrong person?
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958634#Comment_3958634
If you're referring to the Fog Vial, you'll find that it feels different from the smoke bomb items from previous events. The event items you're referring to used an opaque smoke/fog, which completely blocked visibility. With the Fog Vial, it acts more like you'd expect from fog. It obscures the area that's affected, but still allows for some maneuverability right in front of your face.
I still don’t see how it’s going to be fair, when SWFs are stacking fog vials in the same chase. How is the killer expected to chase someone, when a SWF teammate ambushes the killer with this item?
And if two survivors use fog vials to extend the area, then the survivor being chased really has a larger area where there’s zero scratchmarks, audio, or aura reading.
This just seems way more miserable than smoke bombs, which were already miserable for killers, and it was the reason why I didn’t want to play killer at all during that event.
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@Shinkiro said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958638#Comment_3958638
That's exactly how its going to be used. Bet the recharge time is obnoxiously short as well.
And will survivors be able to combo this with Built To Last, so SWFs can quickly recharge their fog vials, to really stack even more of them in the same chase?
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Fog Vial just looks like big boost for bully SWFs, that will altruistically use multiple fog vials in the same chase, to make everything feel miserable for the killer.
Like, seriously, what is the killer’s counterplay for fog vials, if its affects scratchmarks AND audio AND aura reading??? And they can be used multiple times per match???
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@Pit_Bull_Love said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958242#Comment_3958242
You seem to only think survivors have restrictions. Killers have restrictions in tournament/comp play as well. What if killers brought in all their red add-ons? Iri head huntress, acidic blood xeno, tombstone Myers, blight with iri or purple add-ons, 3 blink nurse or really any purple or red add-ons, etc... comp play nerfs both sides. Like I already said, slugging is often banned in comp play, unless you want to be disqualified. Tunneling is discouraged, but allowed. You get more points for each new survivor you hook. If you tunnel and 4k, then you get all 4 points, if you tunnel and 2k, then you only got half the points in that category. Camping in comp play usually loses you the game, because comp survivors will let their teammate die on first hook in order to complete 5 gens. And I already stated that nurse is often banned in comp play. A killer is so broken that she is banned in comp play...
Again, like I said, in comp games it comes down to who has the better killer. Most games end with 4ks, but how fast did you get your 4k?
You can say things would be different if there were no restrictions on either side, but every match would be a slugging 3 blink nurse. Every game would most likely end in a tie. Where is the fun in that?
Camping is so important to comp DBD, that they forbid survivors from using the anti facecamp mechanic, so that killers can facecamp as much as they want.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958104#Comment_3958104
You confuse remote hooking with auto-hooking. Remote hooking does not prevent slugging at all, the Killer is still free to decide whether they want to slug or not. Most excessive slugging is not because hooking is so difficult or so time extensive, most excessive slugging is done because it is so strong.
@Topic:
Yes, the event is clearly killer-sided with remote hooking and especially remote Pallet Breaks. Honestly, I have more fun in the regular queue without all the event fluff as Survivor.
As Killer I play the event queue, since I have an advantage.
Some excessive slugging does happen because the killer literally can't hook the survivor. That is a slugging problem too. Remote hooking helps fix the slugging problem that happens when killers are forced to slug.
Both sides of the game have issues with slugging, and a huge problem with these forums is most people want the slugging problems to ONLY be fixed for survivors, but still force the killer to be stuck with their slugging problems.
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@Cryptikk said:
the event feels really sided to the killers, with the auto hook and constant exposed status. For whatever is planned next year, can you guys please think though the event effects and balance them accordingly, because its really frustrating trying to play survivor as is.
It’s always interesting that lots of people will demand anti-slugging…. But when killers get remote hooking (which is anti-slugging), then that is a problem too.
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@Skillfulstone said:
Alright! Back from testing with friends (and roping in a couple beginners to help) and the changes are very apparent.
It's essentially impossible to get crows during normal gameplay outside of very specific extreme situations (slugging for the 4k guaranteed crows is kinda fixed? Getting 3 crows likely wont happen if you at least move around a bit, but one or two crows are still possible depending on Killer movement and Survivor movement.).
However, during our testing one of my friends and I had an idea to fix the "got only 1 or 2 crows and got my position given away" issue;
Make crows invisible and inaudible to the Killer (the Survivor would still see & hear them so they know that time is running out and they should move or do something soon) until 3 crows are gathered. That way someone hiding because a Killer is frantically searching for them after slugging their teammate won't be unfairly revealed by the single crow they got, but someone who hid in basement/map corner for the whole match will be revealed. When 3 crows are gathered, not only do they give periodic loud noise notifications and become visible but they also make directional noise in a 24m radius.
This would remove the issue of getting revealed even though you were hiding by necessity rather than spite.
While I still believe the original system was fine for the most part, and all that was needed was collision loss and item dropping/picking up no longer preventing crows, this is a much better version of the new iteration with a lot less room for undeserved crows.
Overall, pretty much a W change, but the crows being invisible and inaudible until 3 are gathered would fix the handful of situations where it can still happen.
This REALLY is a lot of work, to ensure innocent people are never punished by AFK crows.
I hope this amount of empathy and attention is applied to the phase 2 changes for killers. I hope the anti camping/tunneling/slugging changes are so barely noticeable, that they never ever punish innocent killers.
Because I've personally seen the crow loud noise notifications ZERO TIMES since the AFK crow nerfs, because they got nerfed so badly. So it would be a horrible double standard if the anti camping/slugging/tunneling changes punished innocent killers.
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@Rapid99 said:
Also they said they stopped it from spawning killers in the middle… I have spawned COUNTLESS times in the middle, with no one using any spawn offerings. I thought I finally had escaped from this insufferable design.
The killer very often spawns in the pizza building in the middle of the Springtrap map. So there isn’t a clear “farthest” generator I should check, and it’s a guessing game.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955999#Comment_3955999
This is what is in the FAQ:
What matches are being included in the stats?Only regular 1v4 matches are currently counted toward your stats, with aggregated results for Seasonal Events (e.g. Blood Moon, Winter event, Anniversary, etc.).
I am not a native speaker, so I actually struggle why it is stated that there are "aggregated results for Seasonal Events", if they are included normally. Because I would believe if would be redundant in this case.
@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956002#Comment_3956002
I also dont understand the wording, but it must mean they are included. I only played the event the last 30 days and i have stats.
I think they dont include real modifiers like 2v8, Lights out, etc.
This is confusing, because in the official stat tracker, the recent match history page says the Limited Time Events don't count towards stats (and the stats are the aggregated data).
The Recent Match History (the not aggregated data) is definitely showing the Event mode games for me. And an event game that is showing in my Recent Match History, from 2 days ago, isn't showing on my official stats (the aggregated data).
TD;LR, I think the above screenshot is accurately saying how the stats work.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/449990/kill-switch-shoulder-the-burden
As mentioned above, would you happen to have video of this or player logs from a match where this occurred? That way, I can share those with the team to investigate what may be occurring here.
Did BHVR at least acknowledge that the hook counter (golden stripe) is completely bugged on the killer's HUD, and doesn't appear when the perk activates?
This has been bugged for a while, and it makes the perk super awful to go against.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956164#Comment_3956164
as a person who was using endo CPU with badge it wasn't really worth and might be worth now? but at this point i might as well not use add-ons
The only useful combo left is Endo CPU + Brutal Strength + Foxy's Hook, where the entire strategy is to try to make loops unsafe, by throwing an axe near a dropped pallet, then trying to zone the survivor on the opposite side of the pallet, so the killer can enter the axe AoE, quickly break the pallet, then use the Foxy's Hook haste to chase the survivor.
Guitar strings are so awful at 0% undetectable duration. If they were 25% duration (so they could combo with the badge to be 50%), then it would be worth using, but I feel like undetectable is supposed to be so important to this killer's identity, that limiting it to 0-5 seconds is just defeating the entire point of playing this character.
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Personally, I think removing 1 crow at a time is just unnecessarily complicated, and will lead to frustrating experiences. I want all the interaction rules to reset AFK points to 0, to keep it simple. I don't know why generator repairing removes crows 1 at a time, when none of the other current rules work like that.
I also want BHVR to actually decide what they want the hiding prevention system to do. Personally, I thought the whole plan was to stop survivors from hiding for large periods of time, because it's frustrating for the killer, and because it's frustrating for the other survivors in the game.
However, the AFK crows got nerfed so badly that they are currently useless, and if BHVR doesn't plan on making them more strict, then I'd rather BHVR completely revert the AFK crows to what they were a year ago, and publicly declare the entire thing a failure. I'm completely serious with this statement.
And when the phase 2 changes happen for killers, I want the camping/tunneling/slugging changes to have the exact same impact as these AFK crows. I want BHVR to remember all the feedback survivors gave about the AFK crows, and how changes shouldn't punish innocent people, and changes shouldn't be difficult for new players, and changes shouldn't take away strategies that have been in the game for years, and changes shouldn't make people feel like there is a "right way" to play the game. All the feedback that caused the AFK crows to become useless, should be applied to the phase 2 killer changes.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956119#Comment_3956119
just to correct some misinformation there - whilst data on addons tells us what is preferred there's a bit more to it than "it's used a lot therefore needs a nerf" you have to take into consideration the kill rate with that addon used, and compare it to other addons used with it. What we're seeing with this particular addon is that it increased kill rates by a pretty high percentage, more than 6% which does show that there's likely some issue with it. So whilst you might feel the effect is mediocre, the reality is that something is more problematic than it appears at first glance.
I wish the same design philosophy applied to toolboxes. Some toolbox/addon combinations provide way way more value than other toolbox/addon combinations, but we still haven’t gotten a toolbox update similar to the giant medkit update.
And can the same design philosophy apply to medkit addons, like syringes, gel dressings, and styptics? They don’t increase escape rate, way more than the other medkit addons?
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@Memesis said:
What do you want it to do? It currently is pretty good at finding survivors and giving you a haste path to them so you can then use your chase power. If you put an insane debuff to survivors on top of that it will feel garbage to play against.
I want the effects of houndsense to work on survivors, regardless if they are in the dying state. These are the current effects of houndsense, but they currently on work on survivors in the dying state….
- Increases the volume of their Grunts of Pain.
- Increases the duration of their Pools of Blood.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955355#Comment_3955355
Not on our stats its not - to clarify that the stats we use internally are not affected by the Tally Screen (we track it differently), the website API uses the tally screen to track match data.
Mandy, I played a survivor game where I used the abandon button, and it’s been over 48 hours, and that game still isn’t showing on the official stat tracker. (I took a screenshot of my official stats before the survivor game, so I could compare before and after).
There is definitely something wrong with the official stats, when survivors use the abandon button. I’ve been running experiments, where I’ve been pressing the abandon button (as survivor) as soon as it appears, and my escape rate for the last 30 days is unreasonably and unrealistically high.
Edit: Sorry, I posted this before seeing your message above. -
I just want the official stat tracker to be fixed. The escape rate is broken because of the abandon button.
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I'm not sure what is happening, but I think survivor abandons are currently not being tracked by the official stat tracker for survivors.
Because I definitely recorded myself looking at the official stat tracker, then pressing the abandon button as a survivor in a normal game, and it has been 2 days since then, and the abandoned game never showed up on the official stat tracker.
I need to run more experiments.
Also, I checked the killer side, and if a survivor abandons, and the killer kills the bot, then it counts as a kill for the killer. So the kill rates might be fine, even though I'm absolutely sure the escape rate isn't fine.
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@TieBreaker said:
I think the devs did that to not incentivize killers to slug everyone to death.
But this can happen even if the killer isn't slugging any survivors. The last survivor gets the abandon button immediately after changing to the dying state, which means the last survivor ALWAYS has the option to abandon before they are sacrificed by the killer.
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@Munky said:
Just threw in some recent matches screenshot (linked in main post), cause some ppl here seem to believe I abandon a lot to inflate my escape rate :p
I also wonder where some of you are in my matchmaking, with those high kill rates. Cause I just keep escaping… I must be at least somewhat mid or higher MMR, right?
For example the billy on my recent matches screenshot was rly rly good, he got 2k in the end, but even those top tier killers like that just get outrushed by the fast repair times. The only reason the match lasted as long as 12mins is because he kept blocking the gens :D
Nurse is my endless nemesis rly, I'll never be good at being chased by Nurse, or exploit Blights/Weskers. But then again, there is not much you can do against those if they know how to abuse all the 'techs' ;)
I honestly don't care if you are personally using the abandon button. I don't know why you keep trying to steer this conversation towards yourself.
We have a major problem with the official stat tracker, because anyone that uses the abandon button as survivor, is showing an incorrect escape rate.
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@tjt85 said:
Part of the problem is that they've heavily nerfed stealth over multiple patches with the changes to distortion, the new AFK system (which to be fair has been made more lenient), a wider FOV for Killer, a ton of new Killer aura/info perks and the gamma settings for console (a good change, given how dark some maps were on console).
Some of those changes are justified. But this is still a curious choice, given that stealth is the play style that makes the most sense to newer players. If you don't know the maps or how to loop and you're likely to go down in less than 10 seconds, it makes way more sense to play cautiously while still trying to be an active contributor to the team.
If DBD is moving in the direction of creating fast paced trials based primarily around looping, they should probably add Kate to the roster of free characters (she's already free on Switch, but she should probably be made a free character on other platforms as well). And revamp the tutorial to include a section on basic looping. Explaining basic things like status effects wouldn't go amiss either. At present, the tutorial teaches you almost nothing about actually playing the game.
Ideally, newer players should be kept in their own match making pool for longer as well. Judging by the baby Bill I had in my Myers game the other day, it doesn't seem to take many hours at all to be thrown in with the rest of the player base.
Camping, tunneling, and slugging, makes the most sense for new killers, so I guess we shouldn’t nerf those strategies, because we wouldn’t want to make things more difficult for new killers.
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@Munky said:
No disrespect to anyone, but it is kinda fascinating to see some people post double/half the escape rate compared to others. As in 50-60 % vs 30-40%.
From this I assume BHVR isn't lying about their own stats, that there are some people rly bringing down the average hard. Again, don't feel bad about this, I'm just analyzing the stats. I was sure for years that BHVR was lying about 40% being the average. I guess I was wrong.
I truly wonder how much the lowest escape rate survivors play though, and if they don't play much… why should the game be balanced towards them? My train of thoughts here is that a majority of them are brand new players, playing only a few matches on a free account and then never return… Am I wrong to think this?
I also understand that BHVR needs people to keep coming to the game, so at the same time they need to make the game attractive to play. A survivor that dies 3 matches in a row as a new player isnt very attractive.
I also hope that people see it from my point of view. Cause there are plenty of people still, that have been playing since 2016, and they just want a better balanced game for both sides. To have fun on both sides… Currently I am having a miserable time on killer side. Even though I was a killer main from 2016 to 2024. In this regard I believe BHVR is actually pushing people towards playing survivor, cause they need more survivor players to even out the Queue times. I just hate this, cause I'm a solo player, obviously leaning more towards wanting to play killer… Yet I barely get myself the courage to play killer once in a while these days. I don't mind losing btw, I just hate having to Q for 15 mins and the game be over in 5 mins, because for some reason I keep going against very efficient SWF that spread on gens, plus prerun before I get anywhere near their gen (obviously voice comms as I see scratchmarks upto the horizon where I see them running). I often get matches with very few chases due to this.
It’s because the official stat tracker thinks survivor abandons = escapes.
And some survivors will always hit the abandon button as soon as it appears, which means they always “escape” if they are the last survivor alive, because they can always hit the abandon button before the killer sacrifices them.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954642#Comment_3954642
I will not once again explain why the Survivors dont have the same ability of extending time like the Killer has. At some point even the most stubborn and biased Killer Mains should have understood it, that being slugged on the ground for 4 minutes without anything which can be done is worse than being at the exit gates for 2 minutes with the Killer having multiple options how to spend this time OR getting the Survivors out.
But the killer doesn’t have options. The survivors are keeping the exit gates at 99%, so the EGC timer won’t start, and the killer can’t open an exit gate because they are defending the hooked survivor.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954376#Comment_3954376
And why exactly do Killers have to slug for the 4K? Yes, Hatch, blabla. But if you get a 3K and the last Survivor gets a pity escape via Hatch… Do you REALLY think you did not win? Do you REALLY think the Survivor won?
I had games where we did not do a single Gen and the Killer was still slugging me for the 4K. NOBODY would say that the Killer would not have won if they would have just hooked me and the last Survivor would have gotten lucky (because this is the only way outside of Hatch Offerings where the Survivor can escape via Hatch) for their pity escape.
Survivors are fine with extending games for the 0k, so it’s ok if killers extend the game for the 4k.
There are a lot of games, where all the generators have been repaired, 3 survivors are at the exit gates, and the killer is face camping the 4th survivor. The 3 survivors at the gate could easily escape, and get a 1k, but they’ll often extend the game to try to save the last survivor.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Unfortunately, I doubt they're going to fix crows in the way they need to.
This whole patch has been pretty heavy handed and extreme. It's like only the loudest punish them voices were heard, and literally no one paid attention to "what does a system like this do to the gameplay".
Which is extremely frustrating, because that's not only their job as devs, but people like me also told them that was a bad idea months ago.
I used to give the devs the benefit of the doubt here, and I still recognize that the job isn't exactly easy. But I've chalked a lot of changes in the past up to "they just don't want to significantly impact player autonomy".
You can't really just delete camping, tunneling, slugging, (or stealth) because there are valid situations where those are the correct answer. Ideally, you want to target excessive use cases without impacting those valid situations as much as possible.
Or so I thought, until the crows update. And all of my "benefit of the doubt" assumptions go out the window.
Stealth got effectively deleted. Even now that "being sneaky" is, apparently, allowed again, like you said: slugging for the 4k effectively guarantees the kill because of this system.
And we got here because they said "to hell with player autonomy". Even now, the system is effectively a short list of about 5 things that are considered "gameplay" and anything else is on the road to punishment (or at least, free information for the killer, which accounts to the same thing).
It's absurd. And I don't think there's any excuse for it.
It's also concerning, since if we're taking a "assume the worst from the player and remove their autonomy" stage, then is camping being completely deleted in phase 2, for example?
And at this point, they've boxed themselves into a corner and there's no right answer here: if yes, we're still ignoring the valid situations where camping isn't a problem (like end game), if no, then why do killers get special treatment and survivors only get punishments?
A survivor's entire slug bar is 4 minutes, and the AFK crows were nerfed so badly that a survivor can easily hide for over 8 minutes, with zero interactions, and have zero crows.
Why do you keep refusing to acknowledge that the AFK crows got severely nerfed because of survivor complaints???
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953871#Comment_3953871
That's a serious overgeneralization. Most swfs are not doing this. Lots of them do use comms to call out the killer's position, but relatively few just hide for the entire match. I wrote more, but deleted it because I don't think this is a serious discussion.
I never said most SWFs are hiding the entire match.
I said there are a lot of SWFs, that when the killer leaves the hook, the hooked survivor will warn their teammates that the killer left the hook, AND AT THAT POINT, all the other survivors hide far away from generators, because they are waiting for the killer to be far away enough from the hooked survivor, for them to get a free unhook.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Something that I thought of quite some time now.
When you play solo q and you are dying anything other than last, why can't you see the killer build in the postgame lobby? Sometimes stuff happens and you want to check what the perk or addon was.
You basically would have to wait the whole rest of the game while you as a solo player certainly cannot tell anyone in this round the perks and/or addons of the killer as there is no ingame voice chat. Which is the basic idea of hiding them, I get that.
But a solo player is exactly that: solo.
So the suggestion: Make killer builds in solo q visible for the player who already died so they can check and just play their next round. Thank you. :)
It's because a solo q survivor might have a streamer teammate, and they could tell the streamer what the killer's build is. A lot of streamers that have their streamer name as their DBD character name.
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The official stat tracker says survivor abandons = escapes.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3954044#Comment_3954044
I'm not expecting it, I'm actually fully expecting them to put in something barely noticeable that doesn't address the issue, then nerf even that after people like you
complainprovide feedback. That's exactly what happened with AFC, and we're still waiting for something meaningful to be done about camping.There's this weird disconnect currently, where if survivors are standing still and doing nothing, even as a "strategy" (stealth) it's punished by crows, and they even put Depip, Derank, disconnect penalty on top of even that.
Yet if the killer is standing still, doing nothing, even as a "strategy" (camping), you seem to expect and demand that nothing be done.
I recall something about wanting consistency in another thread from you specifically. So maybe you should try that yourself sometime.
That's exactly where the AFK crows are now, so that sounds fair to me.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953982#Comment_3953982
If a killer player often doesn't have any clues of where the survivors are, that killer needs to work on their macro tracking and probably pick better perks to help them do so.
That much, 100%, is a fixable issue. It's not a game problem and it doesn't mean you have to camp.
The same should apply to survivors complaining about solo q. Solo q survivors should have clues of where the other survivors are. They should work on their macro tracking, if they don't know what the other solo q survivors are doing. If survivors want more information on their teammates, they should be required to use perks to find them.
Therefore, survivors don't need more buffs to solo q, because they can just bring perks, or learn better macro tracking instead.
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953982#Comment_3953982
You do have clues. You see gens with progress, scratch marks, and at a bare minimum you know where you've already been and haven't seen those things to rule out potential spots where they aren't.
I can almost certainly guarantee you have room in your build for information as well, and they nerfed distortion for exactly this scenario.
There's a weird tautology of thinking here that just isn't true: you're starting with "I need to camp" and then coming up with justifications after the fact. It's trying to justify camping no matter the scenario, when you should be switching tactics in a lot of cases.
In your head you're stuck on:
- If survivors stay on gens, well, better camp to secure the kill.
- If survivors hide, well, better camp so they come to you instead
- If survivors come to the hook, well, of course I should be near the hook, my objective is here
This is basically the laziest approach to PVP I've ever seen.
Expecting BHVR to heavily nerf killer strategies, instead of learning how to properly deal with them, is the laziest approach to PVP I've ever seen.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953963#Comment_3953963
I mean, yeah, at that point you'd go patrol generators just to make sure the repair's stalled out or see if you can intercept a save.
That's pretty unlikely, though. Maybe if your only info perk is a one-survivor reveal like Alien Instinct or Friends Til The End, but that's just the risk of those perks I guess. There are other options, and you're very likely to at least have an idea of where to go.
I'm not even weighing in on whether you should be allowed to camp, I'm just pointing out you've usually got better options if you prepare a bit at the loadout screen.
That is incorrect. The killer often doesn’t have any clues of where the survivors are. They might hope the survivors will be near a generator, but proxy camping is often the only way to guarantee where a survivor actually is.
And that is why proxy camping should never be punished. If survivors are allowed to hide, then killers should be allowed to proxy-camp.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953944#Comment_3953944
Ideally what you'd be doing is leaving the hook to go to a survivor, and chase them. Patrolling generators is broadly not a good idea, in small part because it lets survivors hide.
If you're having trouble tracking survivors after a hook, bring some info perks, sincerely. They're quite good at the moment and enable a very active, always-doing-something playstyle. It's how I prefer to play, and I get good results from it.
And if the info perks don't find anyone, then what happens? What if the killer does has an info perk, but it doesn't show anyone because they are all hiding?
If the survivors are all hiding, then the killer should be allowed to proxy-camp, since it's not realistic to expect them to find someone else to chase.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953865#Comment_3953865
Because its not an autoaim. Its there to make the missed hit to look missed. There is always desync between servers and clients so even if your end you seem to be close enough to get the hit on the server you are not. So the "auto-aims" point is to make the miss look like a miss. The other way it also works is to make you hit something that is really there like survivor who is really closer on your hit cone than the survivor further a head this is the reason why you hit someone you don't see in some situations when trying to aim another one. In that situation on the server side the survivor is closer than the one you are aiming and in front of the hit cone so you hit them and not the person who is further away.
If this system would not be in the game you would be complaining about why your hits are not registering and if you have noticed that never really happens anymore. Like those where the survivor even screams on your end because on your end it looks like a hit but in the server and survivor its not. I have to admit I don't like the system but in the end I understand why its in the game and you are not really ever robbed an attack as that attack was not going to hit in the first place but it can feel stupid when it feels like you lose the control of the character.
It’s because aim dressing makes proximity checks, that can forbid a killer from lunging, and can forcibly end a lunge early, and can forcibly yank a killer’s camera.
And these proximity checks happen BEFORE the hit validation check.
This means aim dressing functions as an auto-aim, because it’s making changes to attacks before hit validation occurs.
The problem is the game can forbid the killer from lunging, and then decide the killer missed because the killer was too far away for a short M1 attack. But the killer could have gotten a hit if the game had allowed them to do a full lunge.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953871#Comment_3953871
The problem is a lot of survivors want to punish or prevent killers from camping, but also want to be able to hide far away from generators when the killer leaves a hooked survivor to patrol the map.
This is such a skewed take. You seem to expect survivors to just stand out in the open as easy picking for the killer. Being visible is generally a stupid move, and even in "horror genre" hiding from the killer is a thing.
Interestingly, they just put in two different mechanics this patch to hard punish hiding. Specifically because it's "not playing the game". So by your logic, the devs should have the same, consistent mindset toward camping: standing still isn't gameplay, so consistency would dictate the same penalties they rolled out for survivors.
These survivors want to weaponize anti-camping to get free unhooks.
Well, since we don't have any details you can't actually say that honestly. Especially since AFC can't be weaponized.
It's odd though that you seem to think that winning one chase means the killer deserves a kill. Because unhooking is a core part of the game.
It seems like survivors who aren't playing like brainless idiots (by hiding when necessary, not wandering into the killer intentionally, and not playing into the killers camping strategy) are giving you a hard time. Maybe there's some room for improvement on your end, perhaps.
The AFK crows were nerfed so badly, that a survivor can hide for over 20 minutes, by opening 1 chest. Yes, I think the phase 2 anti-camping mechanic should be equally useless, for the sake of equality.
Expecting killers to move very far away from a hooked survivor, to find someone else to chase, when everyone else is hiding far away from generators, is the skewed take. Why should a killer leave a hooked survivor, to patrol the generators, if none of the other survivors are repairing generators?
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953660#Comment_3953660
I guess whether hiding is fun for the killer just depends on the player's opinion. I find the hunt more fun than the chase given the way the game is designed. It feels tense to me in a way I think horror should feel; the killer always on the verge of finding a survivor. The chase should also feel tense, but having most of a match occupied by chases makes them feel not quite like I would personally prefer. My preference would be that chases be brief and tense, punctuating a tense search where the killerbis never farbfrom finding a survivor. But that's probably why I like Lights Out so much :)
But survivors hiding while their teammate is on hook is more an issue of survivor and killer skill. The survivors should be doing gens or preparing for a save when someone is on hook. Otherwise, time is wasted in the trial, and the killer gets closer to putting the survivors in a 1v3 with fewer gens done. They shouldn't be hiding when their teammate is on hook except when they know the killer is getting close. That means the killer should be able to just patrol gens, find one with more progress than before, and know that a survivor is likely nearby when they find gens that aren't regressing. But that type of hiding doesn't encourage camping since it's typically pretty easy to find a survivor near their gen and patrolling gens will help keep gen progress down.
So if the survivors and killer all know what they're doing, there should be little or no need to return to the hook. An obvious exception is if a survivor lacks the understanding that they need to let the killer get away from the hook far enough before unhooking. If someone is unhooked right behind the killer, I'd say it's reasonable for the killer to turn around and go back to the hook since a survivor tried to deny the killer the pressure of time on hook and told the killer right where they are just feet away.
The problem is a lot of survivors want to punish or prevent killers from camping, but also want to be able to hide far away from generators when the killer leaves a hooked survivor to patrol the map.
Survivors in a SWF want the hooked survivor to warn their teammates that the killer left the hook, so all the other survivors can pre-leave the generators to hide, and create a situation where they get a free unhook, but the killer doesn't find anyone else to chase. These survivors want to weaponize anti-camping to get free unhooks.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953635#Comment_3953635
I guess that what I see for those players is that in some fraction of games, they'll still get found as long as they're trying to work on gens, do heals, etc. And that means they'll still get eliminated at a slightly higher rate than players who are good in chase, which will give them a lower MMR. They won't be escaping at the same rate as their teammates.
You're right that their MMR will become higher than if they go take chase all the time when they're not good at it. But I also don't see that as a problem. It's not something that makes the game unenjoyable for the killer, and if they do gens and stuff, they're still making the match playable for everyone.
But I also think stealth should be part of the game, even more so than it is now. Personally, I think looping is one of the least fun aspects of both killer and survivor. I practiced and developed skill in it out of necessity, but it's so anti-horror that I wish the game built more tension through hide-and-seek/cat-and-mouse style gameplay. I really love Lights Out for that reason. So as survivor and as killer, I actually like when survivors hide, as long as they're not doing it to the extent they're a detriment to their team. Everyone else is on death hook? Time to take chase instead of hiding. Have a hook state to spare? Go take a hit for your death hook teammate that just got found. But as long as they're productive players, I like survivors who hide and make the game a little more tense and horror-esque :D
Excessive hiding is an issue because it heavily encourages the killer to camp and tunnel. When a killer hooks a survivor, the expectation is the killer should patrol the map to find someone else. But if all the other survivors are hiding, and the killer can't find anyone, then the killer is heavily encouraged to just go back to the hook and camp.
And that is the biggest problem with anti-camping mechanics. If the killer is expected to leave a hooked survivor to find a new target, then there needs to be a realistic expectation the killer can find a new target.
And excessive hiding is MASSIVELY UNFUN for the killer. Leaving a hooked survivor to patrol the map, and finding zero survivors because they are all hiding far away from generators, is massively unfun. Killers should not be punished for camping, if zero survivors are repairing generators, because there's zero reason to patrol generators if zero survivors are repairing them.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953231#Comment_3953231
By overreliant on hiding, do you mean players who never take chase and whose teams suffer as a result? If so, most people doing that should probably be escaping through the gate less often than people who take chase when their teammates have hook states.
That should mean their MMR is already relatively lower than people who play in a way that's more useful for their team. That shouldn't lead to the same issue as tunneling since they should mostly be struggling to increase and maintain their MMR (as hatch escapes don't increase MMR).
I mean the people that never learned how to properly be in chase with killers, and these survivors excessively hide, and rely on their teammates to be good in chase.
Survivors are going to be around the same escape rate, regardless of their strength and weaknesses. So if a survivor doesn't learn how to handle chases, they will eventually reach an MMR where they really can't handle chases.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952965#Comment_3952965
There are two important considerations there.
The first is that those players who are currently overreliant on tunneling may not be as good as people who have somewhat lower killer-specific MMRs who don't tunnel. When players who rely on tunneling lose access to that, their MMRs may drop more than they would expect. That would leave players who constantly rely on and win with only their killer powers and addons to face the top survivor players. That may be enough already that this isn't a huge issue. However, I strongly suspect that top killer players will be especially numerous for just a few from the roster. That will lead to the second thing:
There should be an effort to create cross-MMR balance for more of the killer roster. I think the presence of tunneling is preventing BHVR from having to address the fact that the game is inherently unbalanced in a way that's not healthy. It's not clear how to balance more killers for play across all MMRs, but there are some viable approaches. One would simply be to apply MMR-specific buffs or nerfs to certain aspects of the game. That could be to survivor or killer abilities, or to things like map balance. Alternatively, some killer abilities could be tweaked in a way that enables enhanced use at high skill levels. Nurse and Blight are broadly already like that, where very new players don't typically have the skill, knowledge, and game sense to do well with those killers in their own MMR.
But tunneling remains a low-skill way to ruin a player's match and make them wonder why they even decided to play that day. That's something that shouldn't exist.
And the playing who are currently overreliant on extreme hiding, may not be as good as people who are good in chases. But here we are, with AFK crows that are so nerfed, that survivors can hide for over 20 minutes, if they open 1 chest.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
So, tunneling, like camping, slugging, and stealth, are valid tactics when used situationally. People don't generally complain about tunneling in the end game, for example, because "resorting to tunneling" isn't a problem for reasonable people.
It's tunneling from the start of the game that changes things. For one survivor, the match is a few minutes of getting chased to death, effectively no reward (5k BP), and (if they add back in the go next penalty) even the game can consider you to "not be playing" with a DC penalty to boot.
Fit the other three survivors, the game is starting at a progress bar and hoping the unlucky person can last just long enough that you all have a chance. And given that tunneling is meta, the answer more often than not, is no, you'll still die most of the time.
Extreme tunneling (at 5 gens) turns the game into a race: can the killer eliminate one player before enough gens are completed? If so, the killer basically wins the game. If the survivors can get gens done fast enough, they might be able to escape.
And I didn't get why people defend this, because nearly everyone hates it. The survivor getting tunneled doesn't get to play and is basically punished for being unlucky and being found first, the other 3 survivors' gameplay is watching a loading screen with a win condition that they have little control over (their teammates chase ability), and even killers will complain about gen rushing.
You left 2-3 survivors completely alone to do whatever they want while you laser focused on one person, what do you think they're going to do? They're going to do gens ffs.
Tunneling is meta and popular because it's far easier for the killer to tunnel than it is for the survivor team to counter.
So, when you say things like
Also let’s not forget tunneling is a strategy it’s not a specific rule that tells killers not to tunnel.
In end game sure, but that's also why anti tunnel disables in the end game. There's nothing to stop tunneling early. We'll get to perks shortly, but nothing stops tunneling, it's just a light suggestion to "please, consider not doing that, if you don't mind".
Let’s also not forget yes killers do have gen slowdowns like pain res dms pop jolt eruption deadlock etc. but sometimes that’s not enough
Because map pressure is one of the best slowdowns in the game. If you give each survivor something they have to do, then they can't do what they want to do (gens) instead.
But since tunneling is a much simpler strategy, people will do that every game, every time. They don't learn how to keep survivors busy, and aren't learning fundamentals, they're taking easier wins and boosting their MMR above their skill level instead. Then, when they go against survivors who actually are able to handle hard tunneling (by gen rushing) they complain they tunneling stopped working.
Nearly every time this comes up, people have tried nothing else and are out of ideas. Juggling survivors is a skill, and it's one that a large number of killers don't ever learn, and don't feel they need to learn, because tunneling is so much simpler. People are generally playing extremely inefficiently, and don't even realize it because they're focused on the race of "gens vs one kill" and don't even notice that they take 1 full minute to find someone, aren't looping efficiently, are just following the survivor around the map, aren't zoning, and aren't using Intel because they think they need 4 slowdowns instead.
Last but not least let’s also not forget survivors do have easy second chance tunneling perks like DS and Off the record babysitter, and BT. And even dead hard.
This list is hilarious because these perks don't stop tunneling. BT is anti camp, and doesn't last long enough to matter for tunneling. Three of these perks are endurance based and are incompatible with each other (and since BT is base kit, you can shut down anti tunneling by hitting people off hook).
DS is one of the easiest perks to avoid for the killer in the entire game, and survivors absolutely play differently with it.
And the only non-endurance perks here are
pay to windlc.So no, lightborn is an "easy counter". It's a free, general perk that completely makes you immune to blinds. DS is paid content, has some of the most restrictions of any perk in the game, and stuns you for 1.5 seconds while stunning the killer for 4. It doesn't counter tunneling, especially since killers will just continue to tunnel you through it now that it's only use is gone.
No, early tunneling needs a punishment. If the devs are going to dictate how survivors play with crows and deleting stealth from the game then it's time to start telling killers how to play "correctly" also.
Meanwhile, survivors complained about AFK crows so much that they can now hide FOR OVER 20 MINUTES, just by opening 1 chest. That is the level of "situational" that survivors think stealth is acceptable.
The same should apply to camping, slugging, and tunneling… where the punishments are barely noticeable, and easily bypassed.
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This is why it's very important for the game to have Go Next, and to properly punish survivors that want to ragequit.
Yes, it does really mess up games and statistics when survivors ragequit. But it also messes games up when survivors bypass the DC penalties and ragequit in other ways. All forms of ragequitting should be properly detected and punished.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952481#Comment_3952481
And it should be the task of the third party site to fix this.
Yes. That is correct.
I still want for the "last 14 days" global stats to be added to the official stat tracker, so that people could stop quoting the 3rd party website.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952462#Comment_3952462
I would not really call it a problem when the only consequence is that a third party side struggles with the data.
Regardless of the semantics, the abandon button is affecting the 3rd party kill rates way more than the Go Next changes.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3952417#Comment_3952417
If this is the case, it would make sense why the stats changed so much. If a Killer slugs for the 4K, this would most likely result in the last 2 Survivors abandoning the game once the last one goes down, so for nightlight it would be a 2K, even if it is a 4K. And this is probably quite a common result.
This problem happens even if the killer doesn't slug at all, because the 4th survivor ALWAYS has the option to abandon before the game marks them as being killed.
I've had so many games, where the last survivor abandons the game as soon as their body hits the floor, even when the game had zero slugging.
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@TheGoone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951664#Comment_3951664
Doesn't this mean holding Survivors hostage is possible again? You can hold a survivor in a corner for 12 mins before survivors lose collision and possibly longer since it's slower during endgame
- The 0.25 modifier only happens if the survivor is moving, so it wouldn't be that bad.
- That argument won't help, because people won't say "the crows should be more strict", and instead just expect the collision removal to happen sooner, while keeping the AFK crows as weak as possible.
@Laurie268 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951664#Comment_3951664
So? If they’re crouch walking they’re not AFK, just like how the anti-camp feature only works if a killer is basically hugging you. It’s not meant to give you free information
@MrSlatworks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951794#Comment_3951794
Crazy this is getting ratio'd when you're right
Yes it's an anti-afk mechanic players shouldn't get crows when not afk, but they could, so the ptb crows were an issue and did not work
Now though any player who wants to afk is not getting stopped by the crows, it was adjusted way too dramatically. I get the crows have been in the game for so long bhvr wants to keep them but at this point why?
With the inclusion of bots I don't see why the anti afk mechanic doesn't just kick the player and replace them with a bot.The feature is officially called "HIDING & BODY BLOCKING PREVENTION". The intent is to reduce excessive hiding. It's just that someone at BHVR made a poor naming choice, and said "AFK Crows", when it really should have named something else like "Excessive Hiding Crows".
Because if the mechanic was actually intended to detect if someone was AFK, then it wouldn't have needed this whole complicated system to detect a bunch of different variables. The mechanic could have literally said "did the survivor move at all in the last X seconds".
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951794#Comment_3951794
I feel like this is the new version of 'it's not anti-camp its anti face camp'
The survivor in this hypothetical is clearly not AFK. Anti-hiding elements were always going to be difficult for a game were hiding is a core element of the gameplay.
Again, I hope BHVR has the same mindset with the phase 2 changes.
We should have a "it's not anti-slugging, it's anti-slugging-all-4-survivors-at-5-generators" mechanic.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951664#Comment_3951664
I feel like it's better to make it more lenient FOR NOW, and revisit them in a later patch.
The crows weren't that bad imo, but they needed some adjustments. They had a lot of exploitable gaps. Way too many to just leave unchecked through the last Masquerade, as it seems.
The crows are currently so lenient, that I don’t understand why BHVR still has it in the game.
Why are we pretending to have an AFK crow mechanic, when survivors can hide for over 20 minutes, if they open 1 chest during that timeframe?
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@ThatRyanB said:
Definitely don't hesitate to run it through its paces and let us know how it's treating you 😀
I can’t believe that survivors can crouch walk in a small part of the map for 8.5 minutes before they get 1 crow, and 12.5 minutes before they get 3 crows.
I severely hope that when the phase 2 changes happen for camping, tunneling, and slugging, that BHVR has the same mindset that they did with the AFK crows, where the changes are so small that they are barely noticeable.
Math:
1 crow = (120 seconds / 0.25) + 30 seconds =510 seconds = 8.5 minutes.
3 crows = (180 seconds / 0.25) + 30 seconds =750 seconds = 12.5 minutes. -
Does this mean survivors can crouch walk in a small part of the map for 8.5 minutes before they get 1 crow, and it takes them 12.5 minutes of crouch walking to get 3 crows?
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Does this mean killers should get an abandon button if the exit gates are open?
Because I don’t see why survivors should get an abandon button when “the game isn’t over”, but killers shouldn’t get an abandon button when the exit gates are open because “the game isn’t over”.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951307#Comment_3951307
or they could make any progress on hex totems count like gens. Not overly concerned with dull totems not counting until completion since the killer generally doesn't know the location of dulls to defend nor will they commit resources to doing so. Although anything that interrupts actions should get rid of crow points like screaming from killer perks/powers.
Yeah, I would rather hex totems get a progress rule for 12 seconds of interacting, and the progress is kept if the survivor stops interacting with the object. And dull totems still require completing the interaction.