Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966147#Comment_3966147
Personally, I think a DC penalty is fair. But I wouldn't cap it above 5 minutes. Maybe 10 max. I'd rather see better measures in the game to address the loss, more akin to what Left 4 Dead does. We already have bots which is a good start. I think backfilling could help, especially with moving the queue along, but I also see the flaws with that. A proper scaling difficulty and alternate means of moving the trial forward would also help a lot to make the 1v3 and on feel less hopeless, but that's neither here nor there.
Having healthy features behind the DC penalty, while also beefing up the DC penalty, while also removing any softer ways of leaving the trial without first addressing where the prevalence of going next began, was a terrible decision and incredibly short-sighted.
10 minutes max isn’t a real punishment. You’re saying that someone should be able to ragequit 20 times in the same day, and still only get a 10 minute penalty at most per ragequit.
So if someone had a few Netflix movies they wanted to watch, they could just ragequit as much as they wanted, and watch a movie for 10 minutes while they waited for the DC penalty to go away.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966148#Comment_3966148
Okay.
So new blood amber/aura blocking is fine then by your own logic. If it wasn't """intended""" then it wouldn't happen or be designed that way. The only people who decide if something is intended is BHVR themselves after all.
You’re literally trying to argue that game bugs don’t exist.
There have been many things in this game, that happened, but weren’t designed that way. That’s literally what a game bug is.
It’s valid to say that BHVR can decide if something is intended or not. But it’s not valid to say something is intended just because it’s the way the game currently works.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966140#Comment_3966140
Why not? If survivors want to run stuff to bypass a downside let them.
Killers do it, I gave you an entire list. Dark Arrogance makes you vault faster but has a big downside that Killers, if they so choose, can work around. I don't see you complaining about it.
Because some downsides aren’t intended to be bypassed.
Yes, some downsides can be bypassed, but it’s INTENDED for players to be able to fully or partially bypass those downsides.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966143#Comment_3966143
You might think I'm saying that, but can you show me where I ever encouraged or told players to do it? I'll address it if you can.
My point in this thread is that the changes weren't healthy for the game and that they should've balanced it in a different direction.
What do you think is a fair punishment, for a survivor that ragequits a game early?
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966130#Comment_3966130
Are you implying I should be punished for talking about game balancing? That's a little heavy handed don't you think?
You’re clearly saying that people should be able to break games rules, without being punished.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966128#Comment_3966128
So do you believe things with downsides should never have ways of bypassing them?
Because:
Dark Arrogance + Enduring/Lightborn does that
Hubris + Enduring does that (The downside is you need to get stunned)
Jagged Compass + Gift of pain/Floods of rage does that (Any hook will trigger them instead of only scourge hooks)
Grim Embrace + Dead Man's Switch does that (Instead of the killer needing to force someone off a gen, grim embrace does it for you)
Bonnie's Guitar Strings + Security Badge for Animatronic does that
I could go on and on if I really wanted.
Blood amber is clearly being modeled after Object of Obsession, which requires the survivor’s aura to be revealed.
As in, this should intended to be a mandatory downside, that shouldn’t be bypassed.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966119#Comment_3966119
And yet trials are still ruined by early 1v3s when no Survivors give up, among a host of other variables.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966122#Comment_3966122
Maybe not the majority, but I also don't know that we can pretend that the frequency of going next and the amount of complaints it received were negligible given that it had to be patched out. We're not talking about a perk or a meta, but a core gameplay mechanic that wasn't a huge issue outside of the last 3 years. That's a significant enough portion of players to absolutely affect the queue, in addition to balancing making Killer more attractive already. The only thing I think counteracts that is the revolving door of players that come and go with each new crossover.
This is an elimination PvP game. A killer eliminating a survivor is part of normal gameplay.
Players ragequitting is literally against the game rules. It deserves to be punished, because these people are break game rules.
It’s also supposed to be against forum rules to support ragequitting, and many people on these forums are clearly supporting ragequitting, and this should be considered breaking forum rules.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966109#Comment_3966109
Let people have their synergies, it's a big part of what makes the game replayable and fun.
I remember when you were worried about rapid response being 'the new object' and guess what, nobody uses it.
It’s not a synergy. It’s people wanting to bypass an intentional downside of an addon.
And having a low pick rate doesn’t mean something is balanced. Current blood amber is overtuned, even though it doesn’t have a high pick rate.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966088#Comment_3966088
Because they're unrelated. Players are still giving up now. Unless you want longer queues and players giving up, you have to compromise somewhere. If DCs had a limited timer and replaced players with bots (or ended the trial for Killer DC) as well as maintaining the surrender option if it's all bots against one Killer, it wouldn't fix the issues that cause players to give up at all but it would keep the queue moving. The game would require better balancing and changes if we want the quality of trials to bump up.
I would rather have longer queues, than have games with players that frequently ragequit.
So yes, give me the longer queue times. Because every game a survivor ragequits early, is a completely ruined game.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966016#Comment_3966016
What do you mean Distortion needs charges?
You literally use the Blood Amber key for an advantage in chase... Distortion charges by being in chase, and Distortion barely takes any time to charge up at all.... the benefit of Distortion here is obvious... probably the strongest combo there is with modern Blood Amber.
OOO is fine man, I run it with OTR to prevent being tunneled, but if you play with it and have nerves og steel, it's often more of a benefit than a detriment. The only stealth killer it really hurts you against is Wraith, everyone else like Pig, Myers, Ghost Face, it doesn't really make a difference, and the tracking and stats boosts otherwise are pretty nice. Quite often you'll see the killer, and they aren't even looking your direction. It's a shame it doesn't work with Eyes of Belmont though 😢
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3966035#Comment_3966035
I mean sure... but if you're gonna have that downside, the Blood Amber needs to be buffed considerably elsewhere, because key should be much stronger for this purpose, but with that downside, then the Map Iri is just objectively better.
The key has a massively bigger range, which means the survivor can use it while the killer is much farther away. Keys also have the basekit ability to see survivor auras, which means if the killer is chasing someone else, the key's normal ability could be used to reveal where the killer is, by revealing the survivor being chased.
The map's beam of light is much much smaller, and it's centered on the survivor, and the beam doesn't move. This means if the survivor uses the map, and tries to run away, the aura reveal circle doesn't move with the survivor (unlike the key's aura reveal circle, which does move with the survivor). So depending on where the survivor runs to, the killer might exit the map's aura circle before its timer runs out…and in the worst case scenario, the survivor guessed incorrectly and ran in the wrong direction, and the killer reaches the survivor without having its aura revealed.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959969#Comment_3959969
Not sure this is true.
Skeleton Key is 4s with Blood Amber, extended to 6s with Braided Bauble. I also wonder if it works with Eyes of Belmont...
The killer seeing your aura is also not necessarily a downside, there are perks that nullify the effect, and some that outright benefit from it such as: -
- Object of Obsession let's you trigger a boost to actions when you want it.
- Off the Record let's you get a free aura read on the killer any time for 90s, so you know which way to run.
- Sole Survivor can block an aura read while aura reading the killer, maybe even use it to find hatch at the moment the killer closes it.
- Distortion actually becomes pretty awesome with this change, with an on demand scratch marks hide...
The key changes look fine to me overall, and Blood Amber certainly isn't dead.
New Blood Amber should only reveal the killer’s aura of the survivor’s aura is revealed to the killer, just like Object Of Obsession.
This add-on is clearly supposed to have a downside, and survivors shouldn’t be allowed to bypass this downside. -
If the survivors were doing extremely well, and the game is almost over, and the killer hasn't sacrificed anyone… should there be a game mechanic that gives the killer a chance at sacrificing two of the survivors?
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@TiredDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964844#Comment_3964844
lol I don't think you know what haste means dude, you can't just call any faster interaction "haste"
Haste specifically refers to the status effect that grants bonus movement speed, literally nowhere else in-game are faster interactions referred to as haste. Not even mentioning faster vaulting speed and faster movement speed are two entirely different effects that affect entirely different archetypes of Killers.
chase Killers, typically, don't really benefit much from haste because their power is typically strong enough to not need it. whilst M1 Killers benefit greatly from haste because of their poor ability to close the gap. subsequently, faster vaulting speed doesn't really help M1 Killers because they still have to actually catch up to the Survivor after the vault with no chase power, whereas someone like Wesker or Kaneki who already have fast vaults and strong chase powers would be able to close that gap easily.
so if anything, it makes more sense to remove Bamboozle's interaction from power vaults entirely including the window block because it severely disproportionately benefits Killers with already strong chase potential, essentially eliminating most of the input that Survivor would've had in chase. plus this way we still retain the benefits that Killers without some kind of scamper ability would have from vaulting a window normally with Bamboozle without nerfing the perk's numbers.
BHVR literally said the bug with Bamboozle only involved the vaulting speed increase.
Therefore, Bamboozle was a "fixed bug", because BHVR fixed the bug involving the vaulting speed increase.
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@mooasis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964899#Comment_3964899
the problem with 4k slugging isnt with the act of slugging itself (whether or not slugging is inherently problematic is a different discussion), its that in the 1v2 it leaves no options or reason for the survivor to continue interacting with the killer or their teammate. slugging with 3 or 4 survivors alive still has plenty of ways and incentive for both sides to interact and prolong/finish the game
in a 1v2 the only correct decision is to let your teammate die if theyre caught, auto-hooking doesnt make that any more of an engaging experienceYou’re basically suggesting that survivors deserve a chance for 2 escapes to happen in the same match, even if the survivors repaired 0 generators that game.
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If there are only two survivors left, and one of the survivors gets placed in the dying state (slugged), then auto-teleport the slugged survivor to a random hook. And allow that hooked survivor to miss 2 skill checks, to sacrifice themselves, so the last survivor has a chance to get hatch earlier.
Even if the hooked survivor purposely hits all their hook skill checks, it still completely removes “slugging for the 4k”.
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@TiredDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963358#Comment_3963358
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963955#Comment_3963955
Just popping back in here to clarify, I never meant the faster vaulting aspect of Bamboozle, I meant the window blocking aspect that absolutely functions with power vaults on Kaneki, Wesker, etc.
BHVR's problem with Unbound was that the HASTE EFFECT (faster walking speed) triggered off of power vaults. BHVR's problem with Bamboozle was that the HASTE EFFECT (faster vaulting speed) triggered off of power vaults.
This is consistent.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964155#Comment_3964155
I don't know that I buy that. I think what's more likely is that with these latest patches flopping so hard, they're a bit hesitant about starting phase 2. So they extended the current event, which was already affected by those patches and is the right call, and shelved phase 2 even longer to maybe gain a bit more confidence with it. I don't know that it will ultimately matter since phase 1 was stalled as well, but you know.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964168#Comment_3964168
I wasn't seeing it for a little bit but now I am again. And it makes sense, really. Play the right regression build with a strong enough Killer and get the trial over with as quickly as possible. There's very little standing in the way of that. It's just poison to the game is all and BHVR should know better with 3 years of data on this trajectory.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964243#Comment_3964243
It might be a little strong, but I'd like to see the gen counter go down when each Survivor dies. The trial bottle necking is so common that there needs to be something to get it moving aside from forfeiting.
I can’t even tell if they’re done with Phase 1 yet. We have a hiding prevention system, that I haven’t seen reveal anyone since the nerfs. And we have a Go Next prevention where half of it was turned off, and we have zero communication if it’s being fixed, or if it’s off forever.
Like, is BHVR happy with what they’ve done on these mechanics? Why have we literally had zero communication on this? Are we starting phase 2 even though phase 1 is arguably unfinished?
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964281#Comment_3964281
The killer can’t reliably force the survivors out, if the survivors are purposely hiding in random parts of the map.
If they're hiding then the killer hunts them down and potentially gets a kill out of it. When the doors are open, the likely hood of a survivor hiding anywhere but the hatch or in the open door just to tick off the killer is practically nil. None of us have seen it and we been here since 2017.
I don’t know why people keep saying the same strawman argument, that the survivors would always be conveniently waiting at the exit gates, so the killer can easily force them out of the game.
Because in this specific scenario people often argue about survivors t-bagging at the gate. Obviously you need survivors in said gate for this to happen.
Hunts them down how? How is the killer supposed to reliably find survivors that are purposely hiding in random parts of the map? This isn’t a realistic expectation.
There have been many times that I’ve seen survivors hide in random parts of the map, because their goal is to waste the killer’s time.
Why is it so easy to believe that killers would purposely bleed out survivors to waste their time, but it’s not believable that survivors would purposely hide to waste the killer’s time?
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3964249#Comment_3964249
If all survivors are slugged they can abandon immediately to save their time not the killers time. The killer still needs to find and hook every one of them to end the match.
Killer's want a similar function when exit gates are open and THEY feel no reason to continue and don't want to walk cross map to force survivors out.
Before, if the killer slugged all the survivors and the killer decided to not pick up the survivors... what could they meaningfully do? Crawl. And crawl. And more crawling. At a snails pace with (usually) no way to progress, no way to gain points (or anything but pittance worth), just to wait till bleed out, DC with a penalty, or for the killer to be bored waiting for the bleed out.
When the doors are open, what can the killer meaningfully do? They can break things, some can repeatedly gain points with their ability, potentially nab a stupid survivor, or force survivors out. And the survivors have no way to really stop em.
It's to save time in case the killer decided to be an arse and forcefully hold the survivors for the whole timer. Key to this is the forcefully bit.
The killer can’t reliably force the survivors out, if the survivors are purposely hiding in random parts of the map.
I don’t know why people keep saying the same strawman argument, that the survivors would always be conveniently waiting at the exit gates, so the killer can easily force them out of the game.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963768#Comment_3963768
It'll be next to impossible to accurately gauge what's fair as long as the trials steamroll as easily as they do. Regardless, if Killer has catchup mechanics that last all trial long, offer very little resistance (there is counterplay, but it's easily overpowered), and can be used without restraint across all characters, there HAS to be something of equal ease and power for Survivor. SWF is too unrealistic.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963809#Comment_3963809
My solo trials are the same. I can maintain a 40%-ish streak if I play during a specific window at the start of events. Otherwise, it's a lot of trials where Killer gains an early advantage, we get a few gens done, and then they start slugging until we're all down. Even when we (rarely) open the gates, it's the same story. Escapes only happen if the Killer is sorely mismatched or if they let us win.
I'm 3k hours but still fairly casual. I can't imagine my experience is that different from the majority.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963843#Comment_3963843
There's a lot that could make the game a lot more enjoyable and fair, but if asymmetrical games have shown anything, it's that Killers won't queue up if they can't win with ease. It's a problem for the genre overall.
It seems to me that it was very easy to accurately gauge if the anti-slugging mechanic was fair for Chaos Shuffle, since BHVR decided to cancel the entire event instead of implement it.
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@TiredDBDenjoyer said:
Pretty self-explanatory. On the PTB, Unbound applying to Killer power vaults is listed as a "fixed bug", even though this makes zero sense because Bamboozle has also applied to Killer power vaults for a long time now and the wording between the perks is basically the same. If Unbound is getting nerfed so it no longer works with Kaneki, Wesker, Legion, etc. then, by this logic, so should Bamboozle.
Bamboozle hasn't stacked haste with killer powers since Wesker was released, which was August 2022.
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@Unequalmitten86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963569#Comment_3963569
Ok I get it and yes there are instances where slugging is a necessity. However the event proves that killers slug because they are lazy and even if it’s a dead zone they can literally hook anywhere with an invitation. Or they slug and seek with the last two players. There should really be no slugging in the event with remote hooking available but here we are being slugged 90% of matches.
I'm still forced to slug in this event, because remote hooking requires the killer to fully pickup a survivor, which means survivors can flashbang/flashlight/pallet save the survivor.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963473#Comment_3963473
When Killer tries, that 40% escape rate easily drops down to 10% or below. The bulk of that is gen regression and early camping/tunneling. Any time the Survivors get a foothold, just resort to slugging and patrolling the remaining gens.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963541#Comment_3963541
Look at how they handled anti-camping. I think we'll be fine.
BHVR wanted to release an anti-slugging mechanic for Chaos Shuffle, that was so awful for the killer, that the entire event got cancelled.
It really feels like BHVR isn't trying to create something that is fair for killers, and instead is just trying to see what they can get away with. Because we've also had the "infinite unbreakable" PTB, that BHVR honestly thought would be fair for killers.
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I still don't understand why so many killers get major nerfs to addons, because they raised kill rates by too much, but Myers still gets to keep the Tombstone addons, and the Tuft of Hair addon.
Are we honestly saying that Tombstone Piece doesn't raise the kill rates by more than 6%?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963576#Comment_3963576
Again, you're just relitigating that you disagree with me.
The point is that "if survivors need to hide sometimes, killers need to slug sometimes" isn't a gotcha when almost everyone - including the people you disagree with - will just answer "yes, true".
Question for you: Did your anti-slugging suggestion give survivors a basekit unbreakable, in situations where the killer was literally unable to hook the survivor?
This is a YES or NO question.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963569#Comment_3963569
That post talks extensively about how sometimes killers need to slug, and attempts to provide a way forward that still preserves their ability to do it.
You disagreeing with the idea doesn't change that.
You still gave survivors basekit unbreakable, even when the survivors forced the killer to slug. And therefore you were still punishing killers for slugging, even when the survivors forced the killer to slug.
The fact that your post talked about slugging extensively, doesn't change the fact that you still gave survivors the basekit unbreakable.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963548#Comment_3963548
Almost!
I suggested an anti-slugging mechanic that would allow survivors to get themselves up off the ground, but that was specifically designed to still allow the killer to slug people when the survivors forced it. I even put something in that post for people doing unhookable builds, just to make absolutely certain the killer still had answers to these kinds of situations.
What you're doing here is acting like because you disagreed with the idea, that means I wanted to punish the killer for making the correct play and slugging. That's not what actually happened, though; as I said in my previous post here, what happened is that I talked about anti-slugging while acknowledging that sometimes the killer needs to slug.
You're reinforcing my point, here.
Your suggestion gave survivors unbreakable, even when the survivors forced the killer to slug.
For example, if there is only one hook that is within hooking range, and it is currently broken because of the Breakdown perk, your suggestion would still give the survivor basekit unbreakable, even though the killer literally can't hook the survivor, and therefore is forced to slug the survivor.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963388#Comment_3963388
Almost every time any anti-slug is talked about, the person speaking acknowledges that sometimes the killer needs to slug. Very few people argue otherwise.
So… yes. There are circumstances where the correct play is hiding, there are circumstances where the correct play is slugging, and players broadly speaking shouldn't be punished for either.
You literally suggested an anti-slugging mechanic, that gave survivors a basekit unbreakable, even if the survivors forced the killer to slug.
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@th3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963388#Comment_3963388
I see. You are just being intentionally obtuse. Why is this even being brought up when your entire message was ranting about the AFK crows and not the slugging?
BHVR declared excessive hiding as problematic survivor behavior, and intended for the solution to be AFK crows, but then people complained so the entire AFK crow mechanic got nerfed into uselessness.
People complained because you got AFK crows while performing actions on gens, totems, gates, healing other survivors, chests, and crows while hiding from the killer during no way outs timer.
The correct or best choice for a survivor while No Way Out is active is to hide, which under this system was giving them crows despite actively participating in the game.
I've seen a grand total of ZERO survivors revealed by AFK crows, ever since they were nerfed.
There's an argument to be made that the timer was changed to be too long but given that it was changed in a hotfix that's expected. However, this system is just flawed and really should be more complex than it is.
I'll entertain the blatantly "whataboutism" of your reply though I don't think it'll ever be good enough.
With this hypothetical anti slug change coming in phase 2 there is zero indication that the change will in any way punish killers for slugging in the normal course of gameplay. The last change that "negatively" impacted killer gameplay in this manner would be the Anti-Face Camping mechanic. This "punishment" of having to stand up to 16 meters away actually benefits killers more since it gives them more clear lines of sight on survivors coming in to save their teammates. Proxy camping has always been way more beneficial for Killers to apply pressure than face camping and this change provided the negative feedback necessary to incentivize killers to move away from the hook to a position that arguably is better for them than just sitting right in front of the hook (before there was no "negative" feedback. i.e. a consequence for their action in game).
The comments around the Anti-slug changes have almost consistently been expressing that the focus of the mechanic is aimed at the "excessive" slugging rather than punishing the killer for slugging that is a necessity (under a pallet and what not). Given how the AFC mechanic has been a tool that encourages "proxy camping" over face camping which is better for the killer anyways I am not expecting anything that isn't a net positive for the killer at the end of the day. But who knows, maybe the real issue is shoulder the burden and how that punishes the killer for breathing.
The forum comments around anti-slugging very often suggested giving survivors a basekit unbreakable, that can activate even when the survivors forced the killer to slug.
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@th3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962955#Comment_3962955
So people getting crows while working on objectives or doing the correct play of hiding during no way out was a good thing? Are you being intentionally facetious?
"The correct play of hiding"? So if killers do "the correct play of slugging", they shouldn't be punished?
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@Unimatrix00 said:
Hey,
Just wondering how people feel about the extension of the Twisted Masquerade event, taking over Chaos Shuffle which was supposed to occur.
Personally, it ticks me off a bit. I have already earned all the cosmetics and whatnot from the event, except for the three banners and charm, which is hardly worth anything. I don't need more time in the event.
BHVR, stop messing with your calendar and making arbitrary changes like this; it's super annoying.I’d rather have extended Twisted Masquerade, than have a Chaos Shuffle where the game double punishes me when survivors force me to slug.
As in, I just wouldn’t have played killer at all during Chaos Shuffle, out of protest.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963048#Comment_3963048
”If the dog's pull strength is too low, that could be changed independently of the pathing logic. The pull strength could be based on how far the survivor is from the killer, even though the pull direction is based on the dog's previous location.”
I see what you’re saying and I hear ya!
Could you explain the second part though to me?I am not sure how this would work or function if that makes sense.
The pull strength for sure regardless is way too weak. (Which is why I suggested a revert, but could be due to the fps bug a friend and I discovered. Not sure yet)
Thank you again, just trying to understand your logic. :)I've seen someone demonstrate a bug that allows survivors to reduce the dog's pull strength.
If the dog's pull strength is based off of the distance between the killer and survivor, then the pull strength would be higher when the survivor is farther away, since the dog needs to travel more distance to reach the killer.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OVWSX2MH6494/img-0474.jpeg
After several months of testing this new pathway, it just doesn’t feel right. To me it feels clunky and the pull strength of the dog has diminished to almost nothing….which she needs to have to stay consistent for obvious reasons respectfully :)
It felt smoother with Snug pulling survivors back to The Houndmaster vs marked location of a grab. A lot smoother. Some might say “oh well the issue there is he would pull them directly into a pallet”Well, he does that anyways, and his pull strength is so weak you can’t stop it which isn’t really rewarding after getting a successful dog grab given her skill ceiling.
Some might say “oh bad idea, because he will pull them away from me” well no, he’s doing it right… you just need to go the other direction and you’re good to go.
Snug should always pull the survivor back to the Houndmaster.
This will fix 2 issues in one solution. I do appreciate the devs trying to take the time to come up with ideas 💡 and solutions! Truly appreciated!However you had it right the first time in regards to particular circumstance. This is all I ask. Thank you so much.
As always happy hunting!! (Or surviving. 🏃) 😅
Having the dog move back to where the grab started, makes it much easier for survivors to figure out which direction the dog will drag them, and they can act accordingly.
If the dog's pull strength is too low, that could be changed independently of the pathing logic. The pull strength could be based on how far the survivor is from the killer, even though the pull direction is based on the dog's previous location.
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Yes, it can be done. If the Common and Uncommon addons apply to both repairing and sabotaging at the same time, then survivors can easily have two addons that help both toolbox functions.
Also, I don't think toolboxes need the new charge system. Keys needed the new charge system, because some people were tapping the key for small bursts of time, to get like 20-40 aura reading uses out of the item. But toolbox tapping really doesn't do anything special, so it's fine with the old charge system.
TOOLBOXES...
Worn-Out Tools (Common):
16 Charges
Unlocks the Sabotage action, which uses 5 charges.
Increases the Repair speed by 25%
Increases the Sabotage speed by 25%Commodious (Uncommon):
16 Charges
Unlocks the Sabotage action, which uses 5 charges.
Increases the Repair speed by 50%
Increases the Sabotage speed by 50%Engineer's (Rare):
16 Charges
Unlocks the Sabotage action, which uses 5 charges.
Increases the Repair speed by 75%
Increases the Sabotage speed by 75%Festive (Event):
16 Charges
Unlocks the Sabotage action, which uses 5 charges.
Increases the Repair speed by 50%
Increases the Sabotage speed by 50%++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ADD-ONS...
Clean Rag (Common):
Increases the Repair speed of the Toolbox by 25%
Increases the Sabotage speed of the Toolbox by 25%Protective Gloves (Uncommon):
Increases the Capacity of the Toolbox by +12 chargesProtective Gloves (Rare):
Suppresses the Loud Noise Notification to the Killer that is usually triggered after sabotaging a Hook.
Reduces the range at which your Generator-Repair noises can be heard by -12 meters.Socket Swivels (Very Rare):
Increases the Repair speed to the Toolbox by 75%Hacksaw (Iri):
Increases the Sabotage speed of the Toolbox by 75% -
@crogers271 said:
It's probably one of the biggest issues in DbD and its potentially unfixable.
Because survivors are allowed, and even encouraged, to play for themselves, the logical thing to do in this scenario is hide and hope the other is caught first. Except that is really boring and draws out the game. You could potentially allow an abandon mechanic or something like that in this situation, but there are players who don't enjoy that as well (BHVR also made a couple of unforced errors on that issue as well).
The issue was supposed to have been fixed in phase 1, with the AFK crows. The whole point of the AFK crows, was that it was supposed to punish survivors that were excessively hiding, which is why it was called "hiding prevention".
BHVR declared excessive hiding as problematic survivor behavior, and intended for the solution to be AFK crows, but then people complained so the entire AFK crow mechanic got nerfed into uselessness. I've seen a grand total of ZERO survivors revealed by AFK crows, ever since they were nerfed. And I'm STILL stuck searching the entire map when all the remaining survivors decide to excessively hide, but the AFK crows are so useless that they never reveal these survivors.
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@kosaba11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962809#Comment_3962809
The AFK crows were a problem, though. They were over-tuned to the point of giving Killers an unfair advantage. Now, yes, increasing the time at which they spawn isn't an inherently bad idea, but BHVR had over-tuned it to the point where they were spawning within seconds, where even doing your tasks wasn't getting rid of them. That's not exactly a fair instance, in fact it led to no-win situations, where, to give an example of something that did happen to me, I had to slowly open the exit gate, as the Springtrap I was facing was going back and forth between his doors - this meant I had to hide nearby. Despite spending a good chunk of that time in Springtrap's terror radius and opening the door, I ended up with all three crows - which got me caught. That's not exactly balanced or fair.
Balance, in terms of anti-whatever mechanics, need to consider actual no-win situations. For example, slugging leads to a no-win situation for the Survivors. Extensive hiding through-out the match leads to a harder time for both sides, which has already had some changes to fix, but obviously there can always be improvements. Completely negating the ability to hide would be like completely removing the ability for Killers to see the generators - maybe not the end of the world, but it does give an unfair advantage to the opposing side.
Essentially, to properly balance, you cannot remove one no-sin situation by creating a new one for the opposing side.
Summary: You're totally cool with killers having no-win situations, but we really should be extra careful to make sure survivors don't have no-win situations.
Punishing killers for slugging, when the killer is slugging because the survivors forced them to, is a horrible idea.
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@kosaba11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962741#Comment_3962741
I would consider that a case of soft slugging, as the Killer technically isn't in a no-win situation. Yes, it does not feel good when it happens, and lord knows it's happened to me more times than not, but it's not an end of the world "Now I need to slug the whole lobby," situation. At that point, you're simply needing to target whoever sabotaged the hook and accept the person you were trying to hook is going to be picked up.
And no, I don't think Killers should get a guaranteed hook, as the anti-slugging suggestion I recommended isn't a get out of jail free card. Yes, it'll help alleviate some issues, but it still leaves room for Killers who are toxic and do hard slug - they just have to down the Survivors more than once. So, since it's not a "You now get to escape," mechanic, just a "You don't have to stay on the ground all game while the Killer takes the easy win" mechanic. It gives Survivors a chance in a no-win situation.
In no-win situations for Killers, they already have the fact the anti-camp mechanic turns off once all generators are finished, by that same token, turning off the anti-slug mechanic would help prevent a no-win situation for Killers as a result of the mechanic.
No side should get free points as a result of the mechanic, as that wouldn't be fair. Survivors don't get generator progress by getting to pick themselves up, so Killers shouldn't get a free hook state as a result either. It's for the sake of fairness.
I wish you gave the same advice to survivors, when they were complaining about the AFK crows. I wish you had told them "it's not the end of the world", and that they should just deal with the mechanic.
Instead, we had the AFK crows nerfed into uselessness, just so they can't possibly punish innocent survivors. So the same attitude should apply to anti-slugging. The anti-slugging mechanic should NEVER punish innocent killers, because survivors sent a clear message that new game mechanics shouldn't punish innocent players, which is why the AFK crows got nerfed so much.
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@kosaba11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962351#Comment_3962351
Like I said, it'd need extensive testing to find the sweet spot. In cases of Forced Slugging, like during the Endgame (the only situation where you can argue that you had to slug), the easiest solution is to turn off the feature - like how the anti-face camping mechanic turns off once all gens are done. But regardless, no solution is perfect, and it's why persistent testing would be necessary - it needs to be strong enough to punish toxic players without being so strong that innocent players are punished. There is a sweet spot, but it'd need to be found.
Forced Slugging can happen at any point in the game. For example, there might only be one hook in range, and a teammate might sabotage that hook while the killer is carrying the survivor, and the killer is forced to drop the survivor, and by the time the hook respawns, the slugged survivor will have too much wiggle progress to get to the hook.
If the killer should be punished for leaving a survivor on the ground for too long, then the killer should eventually be given a guaranteed way to hook a survivor before they are punished, right? If the mindset is "killers should always be able to hook survivors, and therefore they can be punished if they slug a survivor for too long", then obviously killers should be give a guaranteed way to hook survivors before they are punished, right?
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@kosaba11 said:
Obviously, this is probably the best answer to slugging, but it does need to be nuanced. It needs to be strong enough to make hard slugging harder, but not so strong that punishes Killers who are soft slugging or not slugging at all.
Hard Slugging (The one seen as toxic) = Purposefully going out of your way to down all of the Survivors without hooking a single one.
Soft Slugging (The non-toxic one) = Downing or attacking a Survivor after you've already down another because they were in the area and you didn't want to risk a save attempt.
Here's an idea of how to do it:
When a Survivor is down, they can begin to heal themselves. If the bar fills up completely, Survivors are able to pick themselves up.
When a Survivor is downed again, they can begin to heal themselves, but the time to pick yourself up is increased by a percentage. And it continues to increase each time you are downed, until you bleed out.
Your Bleed Out meter is not reset every time you are downed. If your BO meter is halfway gone, then it will be at the halfway mark the next time you're downed.
As for the perk itself, it would obviously need a new job. I have two suggestions on that front, as well.
First, it could decrease the increment at which the time to pick yourself up is increased.
Second, it could give Survivors Endurance until they are hit again, to give Survivors a chance to get away from the Killer in the event the Killer is camping them and waiting to down them again.
Now, if it's used, it's best to put the feature through the PTB so you can find the sweet spot of increasing the time it takes to pick yourself up, where it helps prevent hard slugging without punishing the Killers who only soft slug.
You forgot about Forced Slugging, where the killer is forced to slug. The killer should not be punished when they are forced to slug.
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Anti-slugging solution? Did this solution punish killers in scenarios where the survivors forced them to slug?
Because so much time and effort was spent nerfing the AFK crows into uselessness, so they wouldn't punish innocent survivors. So I hope the anti-slugging solution also made sure it didn't punish innocent killers.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961493#Comment_3961493
The game is over when Survivors are slugged. The game is not over when exit gates are powered. Slugged Survivors cannot do anything; the Killer has all the freedom to do whatever they want when exit gates are powered. This has been explained multiple times. How you can think that these two scenarios are comparable in any way is beyond me.
This forum thread is talking about a scenario where there is a still survivor that can walk around the map (isn’t in the dying or hooked state). So “the game isn’t over yet”, because one of the survivors can still walk around the map.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960878#Comment_3960878
The way we see it, nope. Case A: Malicious slugging, Case B: survivors have a bunch of torches or the slug is under a pallet with others around, Case C: you've lost a slug. Only case B is one we're we see it setting a bad example.That said, we're open to a different amount as long as it sounds reasonable so as you said to the general, everyone just need to agree on what a reasonable time is.
A reasonable time is “never”, because when killers asked for an abandon button when the exits gates were open, the vast majority of people told killers “the game wasn’t over yet”, so killers shouldn’t get the abandon button.
The exact same situation happens here. If killers can be forced to sit through the entire ECG when survivors purposely hide in random parts of the map, then the slugged survivors should be forced to sit through their entire slug bar.
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@KerJuice said:
Isn’t Babysitter a better option than Come and Get Me?
Come and Get Me has an infinite time to activate the perk, which means the survivor can hold onto it as long as they want. And the perk is an area effect, so it works on multiple survivors at the same time (even yourself).
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959435#Comment_3959435
…I gotta ask, man, if your position is that game sense as a concept doesn't apply to this situation, why on earth did you START with game sense not existing at all and being a fake term?
Because 99% of the time, it's being used as a fake term, to tell killers to get better at the game. The vast majority of the time, the killers are expected to use this "game sense".
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959197#Comment_3959197
It's not a fake term and It does exist though, you haven't proven it doesn't.
It seems like you're just deflecting to make it about survivors in lieu of a proper argument.
Game sense involves the game itself, and REASONABLE predictions that can be made. People might use game sense to predict where the players spawned in a game, or where the generators/pallets/windows/hooks/hatch/totems are, because it turns out the game doesn't completely randomize where they are located, and a player can find patterns in the spawning placements if they have played the game enough.
Game sense can also say things like "I've seen a survivor teammate in chase for over a minute, and now I see their aura because the killer just placed them into the dying state, so I'm using game sense to predict that most (or all) of the pallets in that surrounding area are gone".
But the important thing is game sense is VAGUE PREDICTIONS based on observable information, and/or based on patterns in the game itself (the game itself = not people).
Game sense does not give killers psychic powers. And it's very often misused in places where the killer would need psychic powers in order to actually know what is happening. When a SWF sets up a fog vial ambush, and the killer can't see their target survivor, or hear them, or have scratchmarks, or have aura reading… and the SWF teammate is purposely trying to mislead them by running around the area… then game sense doesn't work anymore. There isn't any information to based guesses off of, because the game took them all away.
And the important thing is that without the fog vial, then game sense might be meaningful, because the killer is allowed to actually see/hear/aura-read, and have observable information to help them figure out where the target survivor is.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959143#Comment_3959143
Peak whataboutism. But sure I'll bite because why not.
- Good survivors do need game sense I never said they didn't. You know when people say "oh average survivors aren't that good" yeah if they had game sense, they wouldn't say that at all.
- Simple. Survivors are a team of 4 and I'd say in current DBD they need to work as a team to actually win matches consistantly. The reason why 4 man SWFs are so oppressive is because they can work as a team to the maximum possible level. The HUD at least allows solo Q and duos some semblence of teamwork.
- What kind of question is this??? I hate windows and think it's become relied on too much. Doesn't change the fact that Killer game sense exists and is a thing.
None of what you've said proves game sense doesn't exist. That's the point that YOU made. Either back it up with evidence or stop acting like it's true yeah?
So basically, “game sense” is just a fake term that’s only used for killers?
Why can’t a survivor just use their “game sense” to know if a solo q teammate is working on a generator?
Because you’re totally expecting a killer to use “game sense” to find a survivor, when they aren’t allowed to see them, or hear them, or see their scratchmarks, or have aura reading…. and all this while a teammate is ambushing them with a fog vial and trying to confuse the killer with distracting scratchmarks or noises.
It’s so bad. It’s so very very bad, of the unrealistic expectations that killers are expected to do with “game sense”, but it’s fine if survivors just keep asking for more and more info buffs, so they don’t need as much game sense.
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@Mandy said:
Can confirm, it's the less known secondary effect that's being changed on Deja Vu - the perk is not being buffed.
I thought Deja Vu got a temporary repair speed bonus, to help with anti-3-gen?
But we now have an anti-3-gen mechanic in the game, so Deja Vu no longer needs the repair speed bonus?
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958695#Comment_3958695
No it's not.
Game sense is a fundemental part of DBD as a whole, how can you just say it's not a thing. That's ridiculous.
When solo q survivors ask for more information on what their teammates are doing, why aren’t you telling them they should just use their game sense?
When BHVR added a Survivor HUD, why didn’t you tell everyone it was unnecessary, because solo q survivors could use their game sense to know what their teammates were doing?
And why aren’t you asking for Windows of Opportunity to be nerfed, because survivors should be using their game sense to find windows and pallets?
Why it is that whenever people say to use game sense, it’s always saying the killer should be having it?
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958695#Comment_3958695
are mindgames also a fake term to you? you see them drop grenade, they're about to try something, play the game enough to understand what options they might go for and develop a behavior that counteracts to the most amount / most popular ways survivor might play around grenade and use whichever remaining clues there are to get back to chasing asap.
i played the event vs both iterations of the grenades, it's not rocket science to get a decent idea of how survivors might behave.
i swear, sometimes dbd players are just on a whole other level of disconnect from the very game they're playing.
How is the killer supposed to see the fog vial drop, if the killer is getting ambushed by a teammate? The person being chased isn’t dropping the first fog vial. If they drop a vial, they would be dropping a 2nd vial, to make the concealed area larger.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958665#Comment_3958665
Maybe wait until the PTB so you can test it out before getting upset over scenarios that may not even happen?
If the aura blocking works for everything in the area, then SWFs can use it on hooks, to prevent the killer from seeing the hook when they’ve picked up a survivor.