Coffeecrashing
Coffeecrashing
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No. Ghoul has this restriction because he has a long-ranged hitscan grab attack. He doesn’t have this restriction because he has a dash.
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@Gandor said:
Yes. Going back to versions, where philosophy wasn't in accordance to killer can 3K 50% of games while survivors should be able to escape 40% or less. A balanced version like it used to be.
Sabotages being possible again (not this stuff where killer downs between 3 hooks, goes for one, gets it saboed, hits a different survivor and is still able to carry him to yet another hook). A reason to reinstall the game.
But I'd rather 2019-2020 version instead of OG.
You just asked for a game version, where the red rank kill rate was around 70%.
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I absolute hate the voice acting, and feel that the voice lines are repetitive, and super annoying because they’re so repetitive. I refuse to play as any survivor with voice lines, and if there was an option to turn off voice lines, I would immediately choose that option.
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Old DBD would be way too much development time, for a mode that most people would hate because the game balance was absolutely terrible back then.
It would be much more realistic to ask for a limited game mode with a few old maps, so people can experience just how bad the map balance was back then.
And the old map game mode could be used to evaluate if it’s popular enough for the game mode to be expanded to include other old content.
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- Houndsense: louder grunts of pain, and longer pools of blood, happen regardless if the survivor is in the dying state
- Search command fix, so the targeting is more accurate when the destination isn’t on the same floor as the killer
- Search command fix, so the targeting is more accurate when there are environmental objects between the destination and the killer. And the search command really needs to be able to target the ground, because I don’t always want to snap to a generator or exit gate.
- The survivor “help” command, to push a dog away from a teammate, needs to take longer to do. It currently feels like the killer loses distance if she tries using the dog when two teammates are next to each other, because the help command is faster than all the time spent making the dog grab.
- I don’t think the killer needs any addon changes. Most of her issues is the fact that the search command has absolutely terrible targeting, and her houndsense is kind of garbage because the useful effects only work on dying state survivors.
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I've also seen the Golden stripe (killer PoV), not show up after someone uses Shoulder the Burden.
Awkwardly, it likes to show up AFTER the survivor dies.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942605#Comment_3942605
The 'if' is pretty critical to the discussion.
Survivors grouping up early is almost always bad for them. What if its not a slow killer? What if the killer had lethal? What if the gen was hard to protect in the first place?
When evaluating the strength of a 'what if' strategy you also have to evaluate the 'what if not' because the people committing to such a strategy have to deal with both.
I'd much rather as killer deal with one gen being done and all the survivors grouped up than in a chase while the other 3 are spread out working on gens.
Can we use that logic for survivors too? If someone complains that something is unfair for solo q, can we say "what if you were in a SWF"?
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942620#Comment_3942620
Tell ya what... wait til Tuesday, run 10 custom matches against bots while using lethal and see how predictable the spawns are... then we can come back to this.
Sidenote though, even if all 4 survivors do what you claim and want to jump on 1 gen to crank it out... that would only work for a 4 man gen. Most gens in this game can't be worked on by 4 ppl.
Yes, and the worst case scenarios should be looked at. There should be some rule, that the closest generator the survivors spawn to, will always be a 1-person or 2-person generator, to remove the scenario where all 4 survivors spawn next to a 4-person generator.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942605#Comment_3942605
I think your missing a key detail here... the spawn changes for killers and survivors causes them to spawn on opposite sides. If you spawn in the bottom left, the survivors are on the top right. This was the reason they changed killers spawning in the middle... to make it more obvious where the survivors spawned at.
Where was it said that the killer and survivors will always spawn in opposite corners?
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@GillyBeannn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942548#Comment_3942548
That's not as bad since if all 4 survivors are working on one gen, depending on the situation, it means there's no other gens that have been worked on and you could possibly snowball.
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942548#Comment_3942548
They're also changing killer spawn though, so it shouldn't be too difficult to find survivors early on.
It still can be a guessing game of where the 4 survivors are, and if a low mobility killer guesses wrong, the first generator might be fully repaired before the killer gets there. This is especially true if a SWF decides to all bring toolboxes, because they know they'll spawn together, and can get a "free generator" at the beginning of the game.
And it will actually be more difficult to find survivors early on, because they are starting in less places. Having the survivors spawn separately, makes it much easier for the killer to find a survivor early, because the killer has 4 separate chances to find a survivor.
Yes, placing the survivor together means they can't immediate repair 4 separate generators. But if it means the 1st generator might pop before the first chase, then that's not good either. It's also not good if it means all 4 survivors just hide until the killer patrols by, then bursts down the first generator while the killer continues a full loop of the generators.
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My concern is all 4 survivors spawning right next to the same generator, and the generator getting fully repaired before the killer gets there, because the killer guessed wrong when they are guessing which generator the survivors were at.
The spawn rules didn't say anything about spawning survivors away from generators, ore making sure that if survivors spawn near a generator, that it only has 1 or 2 sides that could be repaired.
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@Malkhrim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3942040#Comment_3942040
Wow, when it comes to space occupied horrizontally, this one is even worse! Even though it's not clear which skin has the worst arm (since one is taller and the other is wider), this one has a really big weapon too! This is awful!
Technically, a more horizontal block is better, due to the fact that survivors are usually located on the lower half of the screen, and the top half of the screen is very often just the sky, and survivors aren't ever floating in mid-air.
This means that with a more horizontal block, the Dredge player could awkwardly angle their camera much lower than usual, so all the survivors are located in the top half of the screen.
But with a more vertical block, there really isn't a good workaround, as the Dredge player is forced to rapidly move their camera left/right/left/right to compensate for the cosmetic blocking the screen.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3941970#Comment_3941970
I dont know if I get more upset, but if I see a survivor going next from the beginning, I declare the match a bust and just let the survivors escape. Wouldn't be fair, otherwise.
That doesn't change the fact that the match got completely ruined when the survivor ragequit.
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BHVR literally doesn't care if Dredge cosmetics block large portions of the screen, because Crab Dredge and the Unwanted Toy cosmetics, are still blocking way too much of the screen.
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@RJoyYourJoy19 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3941975#Comment_3941975
Then they should remove the DC penalty, but they won't do that considering that in this same patch they're actually making it even worse. The survivor who wants to go next will now be forced to stay, but they won't contribute to the match since they don't wanna be in it which is actually the worst possible outcome for everyone involved.
A survivor ragequitting early, is already the worst possible outcome for the other survivors.
And hopefully, the game can determine if someone is a known ragequitter, and if they try to bypass the system by refusing to contribute, the Go Next system will consider that a ragequit, and give them a DC penalty.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3933528#Comment_3933528
Its definitely a side-grade in some ways. Being in a chase now means they can't re-vault a window over and over again and it will block the windows.
No. It's not anywhere near a side grade. Without chase music, it's super easy to hear if a survivor ran past a pallet in a loop, or if they are waiting by the pallet. With chase music, it's going to be much much harder for Victor to avoid pallet stuns.
Being able to block windows isn't anywhere near as valuable as being able to easily avoid pallet stuns.
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@RJoyYourJoy19 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3941962#Comment_3941962
It's not a buff, it's a change coming to aolease the killers and not survivors. Scroll through any discussion on the internet and you'll see which side is celebrating these changes.
Unhooking yourself is an exploit? I've heard it all
Do you honestly think that when a survivor ragequits early, that the killer gets more upset than the 3 other survivors that are still in the game?
Using hooks to ragequit, in a way that bypasses DC penalties, is an exploit. If a player ragequits, it's intended for them to get a DC penalty. That is what the new update is fixing.
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@RJoyYourJoy19 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3941920#Comment_3941920
The game is the most killer sided it has ever been and now you're giving us the most killer sided patch of all time that also includes no way of going next (both removing hook suicides and reworking how DC penalties work) to keep survivors hostage in miserable and unwinnable matches as if it was a full time job and not a video game. How is that the healthiest the game has ever been? For the killers, sure, but they aren't the only ones in the playerbase and this is coming from someone who plays both sides equally.
The Go Next and DC Penalty changes are survivor sided buffs, because they're going decrease the actual kill rate. When a survivor ragequits, it's way more unfair to the other survivors than it is to the killer.
And the game never keeps survivors hostage, because no one is literally forcing survivors to stay in a game. The changes are only stopping survivors from exploiting a loophole, that allowed them to quickly and easily bypass the DC penalties. Using hooks to bypass the DC penalties is an exploit.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3940423#Comment_3940423
Exactly this tbh, Killers who've reached a higher MMR by using these strategies, will slowly adjust to an MMR where they're more able to compete without them, same for Survivors with the extreme hiding. Their MMR will all balance out.
I still don't understand how the phase 2 changes are suppose to happen, without survivors weaponizing it to "fight back" at the killer…
We had a PTB that punished killers for slugging, and survivors purposely created situations where the killer can't hook the survivors, to punish the killer for slugging, even though the killer literally didn't have the option to hook the survivors.
And whenever we have anti-tunneling in the form of endurance, survivors will weaponize that too, by aggressively bodyblocking the killer, if the killer is trying to chase someone else.
Anti-tunneling mechanics should deactivate if the survivor is intentionally bodyblocking the killer. And since the Go Next mechanic should know if a survivor is trying to escape a chase, or if a survivor is purposely throwing themselves at the killer, the game should already know if a survivor is intentionally bodyblocking.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3941116#Comment_3941116
Omg! I forgot about this! What stats will it track?!
Here are screenshots of the Official Stat Tracker, that was taken from the DBD livestream… and right above this sentence is a link to the DBD livestream, if you want to hear people talk about it. The link should automatically take you to 1:02:01/1:14:46 in the video, which is roughly where the Stat Tracker conversation starts.
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I’m really looking forward to the stat tracker.
Like, I know I’m supposed to say my favorite thing is that the Go Next, anti-hiding, and DC penalty updates, are all going to improve the quality of solo q games……. but I’ve really wanted that stat tracker for like forever.
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@Hawki_ice said:
I have been thinking about this for a while and decided to post it, I apologize if its been raised before i haven't done any deep research into if someone else has posted a similar idea.
There are two big issues with DBD that i constantly come across that i feel ruin a lot of my games
- Tunneling, (as there is some debate about this, and what defines tunneling, I am referring to the hunting and killing of a single survivor to make the match 1v3 as soon as possible, such as what i see more conmanly in competitive play). This really sucks in public match's and valid or not in most cases once its 1v3 the match is over unless you have progressed far enough through the gens.
- Players throwing on first hook, as above a player just throwing on first hook, or giving up and making the match a 1v3 so its a loss
Also if you die early on and have friends in a match your stuck waiting for them.
Now i just want to state that personally i never throw, even in the worst situations I always prefer to just keep trying my best, in the hope we will pull off a miracle or that at least the match is still fun.
Now my solution to the above issues and the point of this post
Survivors(players) never actually die!
The big problem with DBD is balance, and if it moved to a hook state system more like 2v8 where the match tracks hook states as the goal.
If on a third hook state a survivor dies, but then re-spawns from a locker or just a far corner so the game remains 1v4 this would massively improve balance, and help remove the issues listed above.
Once the killer gets to the 11th hook state, just like currently the final 12th down would allow a Mori and just like when the end game collapse runs out all other survivors would die and then be shown the final Mori (I personally think this would be a much more epic ending to a match for killers)
an alternative to this would be that the killer can just down and mori or all survivors after the 11th hook state and survivors are considered on final hook, but i feel the above is much cooler.
So what are peoples thoughts on this, i don't think it solves all issues, but would greatly help with balance, and as a survivor if we could que up our other survivors we could on re-spawn maybe swap to a different one (with the same build as we joined with, but no items)
I know a change like this would be rather major and would not be something that would be easy to implement development wise, but i think it solves a lot of problems even if it means nearly everything would need adjustments to incorporate it
TL;DR, Make survivors re-spawn on a death hook so they can keep playing so the game can be balanced around 1v4 at all times and discourage tunneling and throwing.
That would force every game to be a 0k or 4k.
And if DBD changes so that a large percentage of games are a 0k, then a lot of killers would just stop playing the killer role.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3940427#Comment_3940427
That thread was discussing the abandon feature in the case of a 3 gen.
The last patch clarified that survivors abandoning counted as a loss for them. If the killer abandoning in that situation also made it a loss I'm not sure how any MMR system could handle it.
The posts from Mandy there and the next thread that was meant to clarify things complicated MMR discussions quite a bit.
The thread clarified that the information we were given about the button, had nothing to do with MMR.
And the patch used the words “match outcome”, which means the patch didn’t override the previous statement that the button doesn’t involve MMR.
For all we know, “match outcome” are the words at the post-game screen, that doesn’t actually mean anything else at all. It doesn’t have anything to do with telling us which team won the game, and the match outcomes don’t all map to MMR gains/losses.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3940392#Comment_3940392
I'm fairly certain that we had that information not long ago.
At some point there were a lot of discussions about the way how choosing to abandon once all survivors were bots would be considered a draw for the killer, and how the killer could choose to abandon if no gens were done for 10 minutes, but would recieve a loss. And I recall survivors being able to DC once everyone is downed would result in a draw.
My opinion is that those need to be tweaked so the win/loss conditions are more nuanced, reflect when a match is won or lost more accurately, and don't encourage any unfortunate behaviors, but I'm fairly certain we had that information not long ago.
I posted the quotes above. The information we were told about the button, is about the visual on the endgame screen. We were then told "MMR stuff is handled separately", but we were never told how it affects MMR.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3940384#Comment_3940384
I think they've indicated the current impact of the abandon option on MMR in all cases. If I recall correctly, we know what it does. A quick search on these forums might show what the option currently does in different scenarios. In the end though, whether someone cares about whether the button seems like a win or loss is really up to the player. How it impacts your MMR isn't though. I agree that that only works a specific way :)
That's interesting about wanting a challenge all the time though. There are a few games and activities where either now or in the past I reached a point where I expect to deal with people at the top of their game/field/whatever for said activities. I can understand that.
They refused to tell us how it affects MMR. You did not recall correctly.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3940363#Comment_3940363
I guess that's up to the specific player then :)
Once I've done well in a match, it doesn't matter to me if I have a server disconnect, presss a button to abandon, or have my MMR just outright erased; I know I had a good match.
Personally, I don't think there's such a thing as winning or losing in DBD. If I sacrifice a few survivors and didn't do anything cheap, I probably did a good job. At that point, nothing can change the outcome of the match for me. Same when I'm survivor: if I escape, I usually feel alright, and if I get sacrificed but did a good job and didn't have to put up with someone tunneling or camping before endgame, it was probably a good match :)
If I try to think of the game in terms of winning and losing, I'd say that 3-4 sacrifices without tunneling or camping is a net killer win for me, any sacrifice is a killer win over that survivor, and an escape of any kind is an individual survivor win. Once I've secured that game state, there's nothing that clicking a button will do to change the outcome of my game. Likewise, my MMR change after a game doesn't change the fact that I won or lost if I think in those terms.
I always wonder why anyone cares about their MMR anyway. We don't have a way of knowing our own MMR outside of trying to judge the level of skill of our opponents, which can really only tell general trends. And it doesn't impact our experience in-game except to give us different opponents. I'd be interested to hear what your motivation for caring about MMR is; no judgements :)
It's not really "up to the specific player". The button does a very specific thing, but we're not allowed to know what that is.
And I care about MMR, because it affects the quality of my opponents. I shouldn't be matched with casual players that "just want to have fun", and aren't really trying to win. I should be matched with the obnoxious coordinated SWFs, that stack the most obnoxious things in the game, and play like it's a $10,000 tournament.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939862#Comment_3939862
It's not a 'surrender' button. It says 'abandon'. The killer is now enabled to decide to take their win and bloodpoints and go next if they don't feel like finishing off the bots. I'm not sure where there's a downside there. If they want the bp, they can finish off the bots. If they want to keep playing the match, they can.
Honestly, it's pretty wild how people are dividing up into 'killer' and 'survivor' sides on this issue. If all the survivors are in an open unblocked gate for some amount of time, the killer should be able to abandon. That doesn't take away any amount of gameplay from the killer or the survivors and prevents the killer having to deal with bm if they think they'll find the survivors teabagging.
There are also some people complaining that as killer, it's not satisfying to win a match if they don't get to finish off their human opponents in a game that's unwinnable for those opponents. There's no scenario where forcing an opponent to play an unwinnable game and waste their time is sportsmanlike. In the current scenario, when all survivors abandon, the killer still gets to have the remainder of their game if they want, and they now have an option to just go play another game faster. Those are only benefits.
'Abandon' doesn't sound like a win either. And we're forbidden from knowing what the button actually does, and how it affects MMR, so it's 100% unreliable.
The only way to guarantee that the game counts as an MMR win, is to refuse to press the button.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3940174#Comment_3940174
Because the survivor had an endurance effect, or because they were healed beforehand. For example, one of the popular DS builds is: OTR/DS/DH/Unbreakable.
Okay?
That's not DS, though, is it?
If a survivor intentionally bodyblocks, it should deactivate DS.
It doesn’t matter what the survivor did before or after the intentional bodyblock. It should be a conspicuous action.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3940141#Comment_3940141
That's putting an awful lot of faith in something that we don't even know will work. Or even how it will work.
Also…
Therefore, when a DS user is intentionally bodyblocking, they lose DS when they take a hit, so it wouldn't matter if they jump in a locker afterwards, because they won't have DS anymore.
How are they gonna hop in a locker when they're downed?
Because the survivor had an endurance effect, or because they were healed beforehand. For example, one of the popular DS builds is: OTR/DS/DH/Unbreakable.
It’s ok to put faith in the AI system. Anti-tunnel perks should deactivate if the survivor is intentionally bodyblocking, because if they’re intentionally bodyblocking, then they weren’t being tunneled.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939986#Comment_3939986
A survivor using locker or plot twist is, by definition, not bodyblocking, so why are you targeting them if not specifically to tunnel them out?
And UB will still waste a ton of extra time plus a single use perk. Soul Guard won't even work unless the survivors intentionally leave your hex up, which benefits you more than them.
Because we're getting Go Next, the game should already be able to tell the difference between a survivor that is trying to escape a chase, and a survivor that is purposely trying to get hit.
So the game should be able to add intentional bodyblocking to the list of conspicuous actions for enduranced-based anti-tunneling, like DS.
Therefore, when a DS user is intentionally bodyblocking, they lose DS when they take a hit, so it wouldn't matter if they jump in a locker afterwards, because they won't have DS anymore.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939952#Comment_3939952
So waiting 20 seconds is bad but eating a 4 second stun and going on what could be a prolonged chase against someone who could have perks like DH etc in the backpocket is totally okay and not a bad idea? While the other 3 survivors are all cranking seperate gens each? Really.
I mean hey, to each their own it's your playstyle.
Though In actuality, you probably won't wait the full 20 seconds because you know what survivors do when they realise you're waiting out deep wound? They will try to bait you into grabbing them by slowly getting out/getting back in in which case you m1 them and boom they are slugged.
I don't care if 3 survivors might be repairing. I honestly don't care.
Because if we really want to talk about bad scenarios, we should mention that some people run DS + unbreakable, which means the survivor might just pick themselves off the ground if the killer slugs them then leaves the area.
I also don't care that 3 survivors might be repairing, because if I hook the DS user, it's extremely likely they will be on the 2nd hook state if I hook them. And the best type of "free pressure" is a survivor that is 1 hook away from being sacrificed, because that might cause multiple survivors to leave generators, in an attempt to protect the DS user from getting their 3rd hook state.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939948#Comment_3939948
Yes there is, to claim it's objectively "always" better to eat a DS and tunnel someone is ridiculous. There's tons of scenarios where that is a horrible idea and you know it dude.
you're also again intentionally misrepresenting what I said.
I will reiterate it again - lesser experienced/new killers will fall for survivors baiting DS more than ones who know when a survivor is doing it.
Here I'll even give you an example:
Killer hooks Dwight.
Meg unhooks Dwight.
Killer hits Dwight triggering his endurance. Dwight jumps in locker.
Now according to you, the killer should just grab him from the locker and eat the DS, Right…?
Or they could just wait for them to bleed out from the deep wound instead. Now they are slugged and you can pressure someone else and get them later while also forcing someone else to get off gens!
A lesser experienced killer would just open the locker, get DS'd and boom - now Dwight no longer has deep wound, can run away and can even use his Dead Hard that he got from being unhooked. Oops.
It's a stupid example but it goes to show that sometimes people get baited into making mistakes. It happens. DBD's a game that can always surprise you.
Yes. According to me, the killer should just grab Dwight from the locker and eat the DS.
Your scenario has the killer wasting time standing next to a locker, and they don't even get a hook state out of all the time spent chasing the original target + the time spent chasing the DS user + the time spent waiting by a locker. Spending all that time, just to slug a survivor, isn't worth it.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939936#Comment_3939936
…No? What are you talking about
This is your scenario:
"I am going after a survivor who just unhooked someone however the person who got unhooked is blocking me!"
So then down the person who obviously has DS and keep chasing. Don't fall for the bait/don't let them have perk value. Take the free slug pressure instead.
It's not name calling, it is a fact that newer/less experienced killers will fall for survivor baits compared to those who know what tricks survivors will pull against them. If you think that's "name-calling" then idk what else to say that's just trying to dismiss my point with a petty response.
Again, just to re-iterate - I'm going off of YOUR scenario of not wanting to tunnel off the hook. If you don't care about tunnelling then yeah, tunnel the dude with DS. Why not, they are asking for it. But in YOUR scenario you said you don't want to do that.
There's no "fall for the bait", it's objectively better to eat the DS and tunnel out the DS user. Killers aren't "newer/less experienced" if they pick up the DS user.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939933#Comment_3939933
No, it has nothing to do with whether they agree with me or not. When I say "good killers" I mean people who see the situation and would go "wow this survivor obviously has DS, they can stay slugged" and don't fall for the survivor's obvious bait. Newer/inexperienced killers will fall for it and thus the survivor gets value from their perk as opposed to just being left on the ground.
Also yeah I never said that second part. Survivors who try to weaponise DS know what they are doing. They just expect The Killer to be the clueless one in the scenario.
"He'll eat my DS and we'll both get away" or something like that.
Nope. The doesn't work either. There's no "fall for the survivor's obvious bait". If a killer is forced to waste time to knock a DS user to the ground, the correct action is to pick them up, eat the DS, then tunnel them out of the game.
So let's review here. You're calling killers "Newer", "Inexperienced", and "clueless", if they pick up the survivor that obviously has DS. That is a lot of name calling that you're doing.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939922#Comment_3939922
I just explained how it's free pressure though. Like yeah it's boring and frustrating when you're not trying to tunnel them but it doesn't change the fact that if you slug them and go for the person they body blocked for, without UB somebody has to get off gens and pick them up aka 'free pressure'. (It's free because the survivor with DS is getting in your face and wants to go down)
Feel however you want about it, that's none of my business.
My argument is that it's a bad idea for survivors to do it because good killers will punish them for it either by just eating the DS and tunnelling them anyway or slugging them. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.
The part I have an issue with, is when you say things like "good killers", which heavily implies that if a killer doesn't agree with you, then they're obviously not a good killer.
Survivors aren't weaponizing DS, because they are "confused" and "don't understand good gameplay". They do this because it can be an effective way to occupy the killer's time.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939897#Comment_3939897
I never said killers should be happy, that's you putting words in my mouth
I said that survivors who try to force DS are actively throwing and giving the Killer free pressure, which they are if the Killer doesn't fall for it. Not to mention giving away that you have DS is a stupid idea.
The number of survivors on generators IS one of the most important things, how is the survivors doing their primary objective not important
What exactly is your argument? I complaining about survivors weaponizing DS, and you said it's "free pressure", as if I should be happy that I'm being bodyblocked.
What emotion should I be feeling? Because I don't think the survivor is giving "free pressure" when they are weaponizing DS. And yes, I'd rather that survivor was repairing generators instead of weaponizing an anti-tunnel perk against me when I'm obviously trying to chase someone else.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939883#Comment_3939883
That's not remotely the same logic to be honest. Those are two completely different scenarios but sure I'll bite.
If the Killer's camping, then yeah drawing out the rescue as long as possible while people crank out gens is quite honestly the smartest move for survivors and I'm pretty sure that's what happens in comp dbd. Which is funny because it's also incredibly boring.
Just like being bodyblocked by an endurance gamer is boring.
It's the exact same logic, because you're trying to tell killers they should be happy when survivors bodyblock, because it means less survivors are on generators. That logic says the the number of survivors on generators, is the absolute most important thing in the entire multiverse.
Otherwise, your whole argument falls apart. And we would be able to say things like "NO! Killers should not be happy when they get bodyblocked, because it seriously doesn't matter if it means less people are repairing generators".
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939865#Comment_3939865
imo Survivor trying to weaponise DS = Survivor being basically useless.
Sure they can try to bodyblock you but if they get slugged and don't have UB, congrats that's free pressure since you're now pressuring 3 survivors at once (The slug, the dude who was being bodyblocked for and the person who has to come pickup the slug).
Though I will give you this, OTR + DS in a bodyblock scenario is actually kind of BS. So you're not completely wrong.
By that logic, survivors should be happy when killers camp a hook, because it means all the other survivors get to repair generators without being interrupted.
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DS is still being weaponized against killers that weren't trying to tunnel. Survivors don't want to "waste" DS, so if the killer isn't trying to tunnel them, then the DS user will aggressively bodyblock, or do other things to hinder the killer from chasing anyone else. It's pretty much the problem that all endurance-based anti-tunneling has, where survivors want to weaponize it against killers that aren't trying to tunnel.
Honestly, if BHVR can manage AI to figure out if survivors are trying to Go Next, then they can get AI to figure out if a survivor is purposely trying to hinder the killer from chasing other people, and that should be considered a conspicuous action.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939711#Comment_3939711
Meanwhile, the killer — the winner — is left alone to clean up after bots as their final match experience.
That's actually not true. Once all the Survivors abandon the match, the Killer can abandon, too.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IUF5JNVI5UU9/match-surrender2.png
"Surrender" certainly doesn't sound like it's considering the killer as the winner. If the killer presses the Surrender button, it certainly seems like their win is getting downgraded to a surrender.
@brewingtea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927296#Comment_3927296
I'm actually in favor of letting the killer "Abandon" in a lot of cases, including (but not limited to) once the EGC begins.
But this argument is hilarious.
"Ok, but what if they're NOT at the exit gates and NOT t-bagging me? What if they're giving me a chance to win? WHAT THEN, SMART GUY??? Am I supposed to suddenly 'find' and 'kill' the survivors somehow, but with the clock on my side??? PREPOSTEROUS!"
Just so we're all 100% crystal clear on this, you're basically giving killers a green light to camp, tunnel, and slug… because you're telling killers they should always try really really hard to get extra kills.
You're basically saying if killers have a chance to get extra kills, they should go for it.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3938699#Comment_3938699
As the killer, you want the survivors occupied so they aren't doing gens. Because if you do nothing, or give them nothing to do, they will do gens.
Rescuing a survivor means they are not on gens, and it's an activity they are required to do.
So the real question is, why do killers feel the insatiable need to do nothing, monitoring a survivor who is already occupied in time out and physically can't do gens (the hooked survivor), instead of going to pressure someone off of a gen by chasing them?
Because the options in the table are:
- Camp the first hook. One survivor is hooked, one has to come for rescue, and the other two are left alone to do gens. Worst case, the other 3 do whatever they want while the killer observes literal furniture and all 3 are on gens.
- Leave the hook and go get into chase immediately. You still have one survivor on gens, one will come to rescue, and a third will be in chase. Leaving one person on gens. If they try to greed gens, and you get a second down quickly (micro skill), then the survivors are punished for that decision, and you have 2 hooks, 2 have to go for rescue, and no one is on gens.
Most killers who post on this forum at least, appear to choose #1 and then complain about "gen rushing", while ignoring that their macro game is non existent.
What very often happens with 2 is…
2. Leave the hooked survivor and patrol generators. The killer doesn't find anyone, because all the other survivors are hiding, and are waiting for the killer to be far away from the hook. The hooked survivor gets unhooked while the killer is far away, and the killer still hasn't found anyone else to chase.
Summary: There often isn't a "Leave the hook and go get into chase immediately", because "you still have one survivor on gens" isn't guaranteed.
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@Lixadonna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3938450#Comment_3938450
I forgot to mention not only Flashlight saves but Head On plays which gets disabled at crows.
Invocation Perks take 60 seconds to cast plus time to go in and out of the Basement.
I reread the Patch Notes on this and OP's Rules. The Patch Notes states after 90 seconds alerts trigger. Is that at the 100% speed rule? At 50% speed and 120 seconds do alerts happen? It just seems like a confusing system that removes doing interactive things where someone else said promotes "Genrush."
The killer gets loud noise notifications after a survivor has 3 crows. This takes 90 seconds at 100% speed, and 180 seconds at 50% speed.
The killer can see any crows that a survivor has, which means that starting at 1 crow, the killer can easily tell if the survivor is in a nearby locker, because they could see the crow on top of the locker. This takes 60 seconds at 100% speed, and 120 seconds at 50% speed.
The main concern people have been having, is that even though survivors need 3 crows for loud noise notifications, it’s much harder to hide from a nearby killer if a survivor has any crows, because the killer might be able to see or hear any crow that is over a survivor’s head.
Also, calculating the specific times to gain crows can be complicated, because a survivor might have a mix of 100% speed and 50% speed times, which means they might not always know how much time they have left before they gain a crow.
These time calculations are further complicated by the fact that survivors have a 10 second grace period, before they start getting AFK points, and this 10 second grace period always takes 10 seconds (there never is a 50% speed modifier). This means the first crow at 100% speed is really 10 + 90 =100 seconds.
I also never checked invocations, so I’m not sure if they have a progress rule (i.e. reset AFK points after 12 seconds of invocation progress) or a completion rule (i.e. reset AFK points after an invocation is completed). If invocations don’t have any progress rules, then it would be possible to gain all three crows while actively doing an invocation.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3938473#Comment_3938473
But there are directional, occluded noises that affect survivor players especislly against stealth killers..
Terror Radius isnt directional so you shouldnt expect it to be treated the same here
If chase music were made much quieter, and sound occlusion were removed from the game, do you honestly think survivors and killers would benefit equally from those changes?
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3938442#Comment_3938442
Never has been, they just stated its not currently in the plans - which includes the planned chapters up until next anniversary chapter.
I guess theoretically that Community vote chapter may lead to a Spider still
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3938445#Comment_3938445
Survivors were given a visual terror radius, but killers still have a sound occlusion system that purposely hides survivor noises when there isn’t any line of sight.
The Sound occlusion also affects survivors and iirc doesnt affect the audio of the terror radius either
Sound occlusion affects survivors way less than it affects killers, because if a noise is important to survivors, the game makes sure the survivors can hear those noises.
Did you know Spirit's directional phasing audio used to respect audio occlusion? But people complained that it was unfair they couldn't always hear the audio, so the directional phasing audio was buffed so that it could be easily heard through walls?
And yes, the terror radius noises are another perfect example, where the audio works perfectly through walls, because it's important for survivors to be able to hear important noises.
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@ThatRyanB said:
Hey folks! I wanted to pop into this thread to share a little more about yesterday's post that mentioned accessibility. While it was shared in relation to discussions about arachnophobia, the community response has been extremely valuable in highlighting the vast range of folks' experiences. We've used this as an opportunity to listen and share a wide range of accessibility feedback (as well as players' experiences with different phobias) with the team. That includes notes that have been shared in this thread, like alternative forms of blinding effects.
So all that to say, please don't hesitate to continue sharing your feedback and experiences with accessibility - we're here to convey your feedback to the team and will continue to do that!
I just wish the hearing accessibility enhancements would happen on both sides of the game.
Survivors were given a visual terror radius, but killers still have a sound occlusion system that purposely hides survivor noises when there isn’t any line of sight.
I have the game volume blasting in my ears, at way too high a volume, but what else am I supposed to do when the chase music is so much louder than survivor breathing/grunts of pain/footstep noises?
Sound occlusion and purposely loud chase music, is so very anti-accessibility, and it can be considered a bit of a health hazard, because it encourages players to use a volume setting that might be dangerously high.
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My hot take is all the killers should be small or medium sized humans, because BHVR insists on adding loud stomping feet or loud mechanical noises on everything else.
Trying to hear important survivor noises during chase music is bad enough. But trying to do that while the killer is going STOMP! STOMP! STOMP! is just obnoxious.
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@ThatRyanB said:
There have been some great discussions in this thread so far that have highlighted concerns we can keep an eye on (i.e. totem hunts), so thank you for that!
For those of you who had a chance to test this feature on the PTB, did any of you directly encounter scenarios where you received AFK crows, but felt they were unwarranted? If so, I'd love to know the specifics of what you were doing, as this is useful info that we can share with the folks working on this feature.Grim Embrace will probably cause complaints, if it blocks all generators for 40 seconds.
AFK point gain might need to be paused if any generator is blocked, because survivors will likely be very frustrated if they gain AFK crows while they are standing in front of a blocked generator.Also, I’ve been updating the original post of this forum thread, with more concerns. I apologize if there are so many concerns that it looks like I’m hating the AFK crow system. I really do think it’s a good idea, but I just have a lot of concerns with how it was implemented on the PTB.
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@Lixadonna said:
There is nothing about searching 4 Jigsaw Boxes just to remove a Reverse Bear Trap. Is that considered AFK? Are crows going to alert what Box I'm searching? Or what if I'm sneaking around to make a Flashlight save or Hook Sabotage? Is that considered not contributing? Some people just don't like doing Generators and would rather have interactions.
I had a bunch of test cases for various killer power interactions, but the PTB closed a day early, so I never got to test Jigsaw boxes. I'm certainly hoping that searching a Jigsaw box resets AFK points.
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@Aphy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937976#Comment_3937976
Why should there be a time limit? The point is to survive. The matches have a default 1hour timer. Regardless of what's been done by either party. If the survs havent escaped, if the killer hasn't killed them all then it just ends in 1 hour. It was totally fine back then, it was good. It was amazing to be in a challenge for an hour. Why does everyone need INSTANT gratification? It offer's nothing. It's all about accumulating as many points as you can from all the objectives which.. doing gen's give the least points yet this afk system is forcing gen focus. It's blatantly obvious this new afk system is catering only to killer mains and the killer mains that cannot succeed by skill and strategy. So the devs are doing it for them. Force all survs out in the open to allow killer to see and kill them all as quickly as possible to move on to the next round. Seriously who really likes rinse and repeat every 5-10 minutes? 🙄
BHVR wants to add a new AFK crow system to the game. If someone thinks the PTB's time limit for hiding is too short, but can offer a different time limit they feel is more fair, then that player is giving feedback on how to make the AFK crows more fair.
But if someone's answer is "any time limit is automatically unfair", then they are unwilling to offer suggestions to make the AFK crows more fair, because the only acceptable option for them is "never implement the new AFK crows".
And yes, it is valid feedback to say "never implement the new AFK crows". But if the AFK crows do go live, it doesn't help give feedback on how to make them more fair.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937745#Comment_3937745
the crappy maps almost kinda force it. what fo you do on Haddonfield vs Nurse besides just die? you bush tech lol.
I have fond memories of running Fixated + QnQ + OoO to "accidentally" reveal my aura while tbagging the killer thrn i walk to a locker and hide. seeing a Nurse start opening lockers, kick the gens,leave, come back, open lockers, kick gen, leave, but then they pretend to leave but actually double back, but I anticipate the double back and they still can't find me will always be amusing to me.
I understand killers hate that but that is what true stealth is; drawing aggro while burning zero resources .
If a survivor is legitimately hiding from the killer, do you think there could be a fair time limit? For example do you think 2 minutes is enough time for the survivor to move away from the area, or do you think killers are spending over 2 minutes searching an area for a survivor? If 2 minutes isn’t enough time, then would 4 minutes be enough time?