Coffeecrashing

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932518#Comment_3932518
Genuinely, I don't want to be rude, but is it even worth me continuing to repeat that if you don't care about the reasoning I laid out then the advice isn't for you? It seems like nobody's listening to that.
If you want to tunnel for harder games and you're willing to adapt if and when it's nerfed properly, this post isn't aimed at you.

Your post is titled "IF YOU PLAY KILLER", which means you're making a huge blanket statement for all killers.

in If You Play Killer, Tunnelling Is Against Your Best Interests Comment by Coffeecrashing May 26, 2025

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932445#Comment_3932445
It is an imbalance issue. I'm coming at this from the killer perspective, so you know it's not driven by anger or annoyance from having to deal with it, and it's pretty plain to see as far as I'm concerned.
If a killer chases someone as soon as they're unhooked, that survivor starts the chase injured, directly next to the killer, and with a good likelihood of not being near resources. It takes no effort or skill for the killer to stack the chase heavily in their favour, and it takes considerable effort and skill to beat them.
On its face, that's pretty obviously unbalanced. I don't see a way around that. Equally, if you rely on leveraging something unbalanced too heavily, you won't know how to play without it, and you'll have a harder time after a certain point.

Tunneling is in my best interests because it works now. And if it does get nerfed, then I'll just adapt to whatever becomes the optimal strategy. Seriously, I'll adapt to whatever meta the game turns into. That is what I do in the other PvP games I play, and it's fine.

Your logic is also wrong, because you're assuming everyone wants easy games. I purposely try to keep my MMR number as high as possible, so I can have the harder games. So yes, I really should tunnel.

in If You Play Killer, Tunnelling Is Against Your Best Interests Comment by Coffeecrashing May 26, 2025

Smoke bombs are often free escapes in 2v8. Just don't use them at the start of chase, or if a generator is about to hit 100% and you haven't been hooked yet.

And use them when there are a lot of line of sight breakers around the survivor.

in 2v8 smoke bomb Comment by Coffeecrashing May 25, 2025

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931556#Comment_3931556
…What?
In the previous set of messages, I reminded you that you can't say something is the equivalent of my claim without it fitting my criteria, I'm not trying to exert my opinion onto other people. I'm just reminding you of what my opinion actually was when you tried to compare something to it.
To briefly address the last part: Yes, it is. It's still effective, and it's even still effective enough to win consistently. My point is that if you don't learn how to play without it, even tunnelling gets harder and more stressful, because the opponents you face are going to be more capable of answering it and you won't have anything else to fall back on. You'll win, but the games will be much less enjoyable.

That's not true either. If tunneling gets a player to the MMR soft cap, then that's it. The matches don't get harder than that. In fact, the higher a player gets past the MMR soft cap, the higher their kill rate will be, because MMR stopped giving them harder matches when they reached the soft cap.

in If You Play Killer, Tunnelling Is Against Your Best Interests Comment by Coffeecrashing May 23, 2025

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931545#Comment_3931545
Both of the things I mentioned combined are what would make it not optimal, not just facing stronger opponents.
Though, for the average player, tunnelling does get weaker as they face stronger opponents. If that's all they rely on, their games will get harder and more stressful, because they have to keep tunnelling but their margin for error in how long it takes gets smaller and smaller.

That is incorrect. You can’t just make up criteria, and then tell people they are wrong if they don’t follow your criteria. We don’t need to follow your criteria.

Tunneling is still effective at high MMR, and is still very often the optimal strategy at high MMR. That is a fact.

in If You Play Killer, Tunnelling Is Against Your Best Interests Comment by Coffeecrashing May 23, 2025

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931543#Comment_3931543
It's the optimal choice now. As you face stronger opponents and as it inevitably gets balance changes, it'll stop being optimal, so it's safer not to rely on it.
If you don't care about that, by all means, keep tunnelling. I'm not policing anyone (and "gaslighting" is an insanely inappropriate term to use here either way), I'm giving advice for a specific perspective.

That is incorrect. Tunneling is still effective at high MMR, which we know of true because killer streamers tunnel when doing huge win streaks, and if anyone in the game is high MMR, it’s the players that literally win hundreds of games in a row.

in If You Play Killer, Tunnelling Is Against Your Best Interests Comment by Coffeecrashing May 23, 2025

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931533#Comment_3931533
…You do when you're answering my position, my friend. It's my position, of course I set the framing for it.
I honestly shouldn't have gone this long with this train of thought, it doesn't actually matter. Whether SWF counts as well or not, that doesn't affect what I'm saying about tunnelling.

What you’re saying about tunneling is incorrect, because you don’t know if BHVR will ever make anti-tunneling changes that are so drastic that killers would be at a severe disadvantage if they tunnel.

Also, if severe anti-tunneling changes are made, it will lower the kill rates so much that killers would get major help to play the game without tunneling.

in If You Play Killer, Tunnelling Is Against Your Best Interests Comment by Coffeecrashing May 23, 2025

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931408#Comment_3931408
That's one of the criteria. Really, it's half of one, because it's "stunts growth" but it's not "in ways that will make the game harder as you face tougher opponents", which is the full criteria.
What it's not is something that sees good results only against unprepared/unskilled opponents, and it's also not something that is very clearly one specific balance problem that's inevitably going to be addressed.
You're acting like I'm saying you shouldn't ever bring tools or perform actions that give you an advantage of any kind, but that's not the position. This is about tunnelling, specifically, and the specific position it holds within the game. I don't think you should rely on that, specifically, for the reasons that I actually laid out.
You're also not addressing that a player in a SWF won't necessarily ever need to play solo queue, so the growth it potentially stunts (I think your points are overblown, but that's besides the point here) doesn't necessarily ever have to matter. When I say it stunts growth to rely on tunnelling, you will end up dealing with the consequences, because it doesn't require you to start playing in a different way to see it.
You're only hitting half of one of the three criteria and you're also insisting on a lateral shift being the same as a linear progression. Remember: It has to work extremely well against the unprepared, be weaker but still strong against prepared opponents, and be in legitimate danger of being changed, to be equivalent to what I'm saying here.

No. I don’t need to go for your specific requirements.

SWFs are the survivor equivalent of camping and tunneling because they meet the same criteria:

Players can become dependent on it, and therefore struggle without it.
It provides a lot of value, but takes less skill to do.
Many players can still win games without it.
Many players consider it an unfair advantage.

in If You Play Killer, Tunnelling Is Against Your Best Interests Comment by Coffeecrashing May 23, 2025

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931394#Comment_3931394
You're gonna need to back that one up, my man.
How do voice comms fit into the framework I just laid out?

Voice comms heavily stunts the growth of situational awareness. Survivors can just voice comm where the killer is, or where the other survivors are, or where a generator is that needs to be repaired.

If a survivor is injured and needs to find a teammate, instead of needing situational awareness of where the other survivors are, a SWF player can just use voice comms to find other teammates.
If a survivor is being chased by the killer, instead of needing situational awareness of where the other survivors are, so they don't accidently bring the chase to a generator that is being worked on, a SWF player can just use voice comms to figure out what areas of the map they should avoid bringing the killer to.
If a survivor doesn't know where the killer is, instead of needing situational awareness of what general area the killer is in, a SWF player can often use voice comms to just tell each other where the killer is.
If a generator has a lot of progress, and a teammate is chased off of it, instead of needing situational awareness of where this generator is, so you can help repair it, a SWF player can use voice comms to directly tell each other where the generator is.

A player using voice comms can become reliant on them, and might claim solo q "is miserable" because they don't know how to navigate the game without voice comms.

in If You Play Killer, Tunnelling Is Against Your Best Interests Comment by Coffeecrashing May 23, 2025

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931383#Comment_3931383
That's not the criteria for being an equivalent here. In order for it to be a survivor equivalent, three things need to be true. It needs to be something that:
Provides short term results against players that aren't equipped to deal with it, but,
Stunts long-term growth in such a manner that you'll start to flounder when you reach a level where opponents know what to do about it, and,
Leverages a fundamental imbalance such that it being nerfed/addressed eventually is an inevitability even if it takes a long time.
Just playing in a SWF doesn't really meet these criteria. You're still playing the game straightforwardly, you're just taking the extra RNG of solo queue teammates out, you're not really exploiting any cheap imbalances, people are going to become more capable of dealing with you in a broad sense instead of the specific thing you're doing, and there's no reason to assume nerfs would ever come down the line because it's not an obvious fundamental balance issue.
You're trying to cross two lines here, which is that the habits built in SWF won't apply in solo queue… but that's a lateral shift, not a linear progression. Relying on tunnelling will, without any adjustments at all on your part, raise you to a point where tunnelling becomes all you know how to do, it's a straight linear progression. If people in a SWF just don't play solo queue, there's no reason their habits would become negative. They'd just keep working, because they're just playing the game.
Again, the survivor equivalent would've been something like old Dead Hard, which met all those criteria. Currently, it's hard to point to any one specific thing, but the most unbalanced thing a survivor can bring into the trial is a toolbox build, so it'd probably be that.
(Though, if the whole team's doing toolbox builds, the notion that more skilled opponents can beat it doesn't really apply)

Voice comms are the survivor equivalent of camping and tunneling.

in If You Play Killer, Tunnelling Is Against Your Best Interests Comment by Coffeecrashing May 23, 2025

@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930932#Comment_3930932
Not that it really needs saying, but that's factually false, as that assume that's survivors spend the full 150s of active pig traps searching boxes and get the traps off at the last second each time. (This would actually be 10 minutes)
On a typical 4 search headtrap at a relatively leisurely pace to account for sneaking to avoid Pig, I would guesstimate the time left on an immediately off hook triggered headtrap, unimpeded by Pig interrupting, would have about 30s or so left on the timer (and I believe I'm high balling that). This would mean about 30 seconds per box search as a reasonable average to me. 12 seconds to search the box, 18 seconds to reach each box undetected.
Pig has 12 searches randomly distributed between her head traps, which means at 30s a kick, her slowdown equates to about 6 minutes overall... and as stated, this is when highballing the expected run/search time of each box.
So I'd guess her average slowdown is about ~5-6 mins if she gets all her traps out.

Having exactly 12 searches every game, just makes her weaker against SWFs.

SWFs can count the total number of searches done so far, and if the last trap is a low number, then the survivors know it’s not a high priority, and they can do other things with a trap on their head (like repairing generators), because it will be easy to get the trap off when they want to.

in Can you buff the Pig? Comment by Coffeecrashing May 23, 2025

@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931378#Comment_3931378
There's no reason it would.
If you want a survivor equivalent, it'd be relying on toolbox builds, I guess? There isn't as much a clear survivor analogue anymore because there are fewer specific individual things to point to. If you'd asked me three years ago, I'd have said relying on Dead Hard would be the equivalent.

Really? Being in a SWF, and having access to voice comms, where players can coordinate healing, or warn each other where the killer is…. doesn’t create bad habits that make survivors less likely to survive in solo q?

in If You Play Killer, Tunnelling Is Against Your Best Interests Comment by Coffeecrashing May 23, 2025

Does "If You Play Survivor, SWF Is Against Your Best Interests" work too?

in If You Play Killer, Tunnelling Is Against Your Best Interests Comment by Coffeecrashing May 23, 2025

@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931001#Comment_3931001
Except that's not the case with many people. I mean sure there will always be biased survivor mains that only care about the survivor side, just like there will always be biased killer mains that only care about the killers side.
But the thing is, currently, tunneling and camping are the biggest issues of DBD. Practically no one enjoys going against these strategies, and sadly they are wide spread because of how little skill they need. Killers of course also still have frustrations to deal with, and nobody is excluding the idea that those will be addressed in the future as well. But they aren't as pressing issues as tunneling and camping are.
Also, as said by BHVR themselves, if kill rates go down too much, killers can be buffed in other ways as well. Only in this case they would be buffed in more healthy ways. Even though I personally think 60% kill rate is a bit high of a target.
Also, killers have been getting their frustrations addressed many times already. So it's not like BHVR is neglecting the killer side in any way. Killers in general are in a decent spot now even without tunneling and camping.

But it’s exactly what people are saying….

When slugging is frustrating for survivors, it’s a big huge deal and should be fixed. But when slugging is frustrating for killers (I.e. survivors are forcing the killer to slug), it’s “not as bad” and doesn’t need to be fixed.

If generator speeds are frustrating for survivors, it’s a big huge deal and should be fixed. But when generator speeds are frustrating for killers, they are told “it’s not even real gen rushing”, that it’s a fake problem, and doesn’t need to be fixed.

If tunneling is frustrating for survivors, it’s a big huge problem that needs to be fixed, but if killers are frustrated that survivors are weaponizing anti-tunnel stuff, then it’s “not as bad” and doesn’t need to be fixed.

in I fear the anti-camping and anti-tunneling changes are going to be too late Comment by Coffeecrashing May 22, 2025

I think it’s a shame that so many people have the attitude that if something isn’t fun for survivors then it obviously needs to be nerfed, but if something is unfun for killers then it should stay in the game.

Basically, it’s the idea that survivors have “real problems” that should be fixed, but killers have “not as bad” problems that they should suffer through.

in I fear the anti-camping and anti-tunneling changes are going to be too late Comment by Coffeecrashing May 22, 2025

@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930551#Comment_3930551
It's 2v8. 2v8 is not a mode about winning. Why are you trying to dominate at 8 gens in 2v8?

He can win just fine anyway. I posted proof of me keeping up with a Wesker AND a Billy. A Billy. I get decent Survivors that know what a loop is, know what pressure is, do gens, and actually try. Consistently. These are in my lobbies with people at my MMR level relatively, this isn't just bad Survivors here.
Respectfully friend, maybe you just constantly play at such a high level, all you get are megaSWFs? Because against 99% of everyone I and all the players I know who tried him, he's fine. Perhaps he's not someone you play often? That would explain it if you just never really play Stealth Killers, maybe you don't know how to use him well and that's OK. Or maybe Stealth play isn't your strong suit. None of this is meant to insult you in any way by the way, I'm just spitballing for why you may be struggling to handle a Killer like this, especially if you only play Blight… if you do, maybe you just are not very good at M1 chase? Ghostface requires you to be good at M1 chase.
But it's certainly not his kit. If he's not good, then it's because he's not good for you. Nobody else I know has issues with him in 2v8.
Besides… why would I pick the easy mashed potato option over something that has more risk, challenge, and possibility of losing? I like my games to have challenge. I do not get challenged with Blight. I just stomp everyone and get bored. I'm kinda surprised you don't get tired of easy wins…

When I talk about whether or not a killer is good, of course I’m talking about win rate. And when you admit that other killers are “less of a challenge” and “easy wins”, you’re admitting those killers are better than Ghostface.

I honestly don’t care if you have screenshots of winning as Ghostface. I never said his win rate is 0%. I never said higher tier killers ALWAYS do better than lower tier killers.

And the proof that you aren’t high MMR, is the fact that you don’t care that much about winning. The whole point of MMR is to separate the try hard players that break the intended kill rate, from the more casual players. Being at high MMR means you very likely care a lot about your invisible MMR number.

Players can be at average MMR and still be good at the game. But if you aren’t trying as hard as possible to maximize your kill rate, then you’re not breaking the intended kill rate enough to be in high MMR.

in Ghostface in 2v8 Comment by Coffeecrashing May 22, 2025

@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930547#Comment_3930547
Ohh that's something we gotta see. We haven't seen any competent onis run straight into walls or spin in multiple circles. Would look hilarious. What we see is them being like Billy, going around objects to get downs as the speed of sound as those sprinting into walls don't tend to get those downs. While he did get a turn buff, we've yet to see anything close to a 360 Oni, let alone a 720.
Count to one. To us it's not that massive, but at this point massive is subjective here.
Must have seen this so often. Each time we've been hit like that we managed to get away. And it's still only on an uncage in the Oni's face.
But ya know what? Sure. We don't particularly give a danm anymore. We see Oni and Billy here in 2v8 as one and the same. If it's just us, ohh well, least we'll be able to handle it.

Oni can run into a wall to object slide, which desynchronizes his move vector from his look vector, which essentially allows him to "pre-turn" corners, because when he stops object sliding, his move vector immediately becomes whatever his look vector is.

This concept might be difficult to understand (because I've literally never seen anyone besides myself mention the vectors), but Oni is basically running in one direction, while looking in a different direction.

in Oni needs a nerf in the next 2v8 Comment by Coffeecrashing May 21, 2025

@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930034#Comment_3930034
That's a factor yes, but it also makes people a LOT easier to stalk, find, and ambush on average, all of which aids this Killer. Paired with the right class or Killer partner it can be brutal for Survivors; paired with the wrong class or Killer - or worse yet in soloQ Killer - and it's brutal for Ghostface. It can go either way.

He does have synergy and does work fine in the mode, but it sucks if the other Killer is not good, and the fact there's the Coldwind maps (his worst maps) in this mode doesn't help.

That’s exactly why he’s not good in 2v8. Why should I pick a character that can struggle with certain teammates and struggle with certain maps, when I could just pick someone like Blight, that is always good with everything?

There is a big risk with picking a character with lower mobility (Ghostface is still lower mobility, even with Fearmonger), because if your teammate is also lower mobility, then the killers might lose just because they don’t move fast enough to have good map pressure.

in Ghostface in 2v8 Comment by Coffeecrashing May 21, 2025

Pig was massively nerfed so much, that the entire purpose of her traps was reworked.

Pig’s traps used to carry a heavy threat of lethality.
Survivors used to panic when Pig brought 6 boxes to a game, because it might take them 6 boxes to find a key. And if a survivor took 6 boxes to find a key, then the next survivor also might take 6 boxes to find a key. Survivors never knew how many boxes they would need to search, so there was always an urgency to try to search the boxes.

All of that is gone now. Her traps have been downgraded from “highly dangerous traps, where the survivor doesn’t know if they will survive it”, to “un-interactive consistent slowdown”.

The problem is “consistent slowdown” is still an overall nerf, because on average the amount of slowdown is worse, on top of the fact that the trap kills happen way less often now.

in Dose the pig need a buff or is the pig to op Comment by Coffeecrashing May 21, 2025

@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930202#Comment_3930202
he could work similar to a mix of spirit and wraith

If he will just be a remix of other characters, then why wouldn't I just play those characters instead, since they don’t have survivor counterplay items?

Survivor counterplay items are miserable for the killer, unless they are super weak like Wesker’s vaccine, and don’t actually affect the killer itself. But I’m sure people are imagining that survivors will be able to “fight back” the killer with Frank’s cameras, since that is what happened in the game.

in Frank Stone is having totally wasted potential Comment by Coffeecrashing May 20, 2025

@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930188#Comment_3930188
they did tho? with the whole spiritual form with the cameras to hold him back.

That’s not a chase power. You’re basically saying the killer is defined as having a strong counter play item. How is that fun for the person playing Frank Stone?

What is Frank Stone himself supposed to do, that is fun for the person playing Frank Stone?

in Frank Stone is having totally wasted potential Comment by Coffeecrashing May 20, 2025

@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930168#Comment_3930168
thats the thing he doesnt fit any of the existing roster hence why he should be his own chapter

He pretty much did zero exciting things the entire video game, that would translate to a good DBD killer chase power.

If anything, we can blame the video game for not giving Frank Stone a dash, or a projectile, or anything at all that works as a decent chase power.

in Frank Stone is having totally wasted potential Comment by Coffeecrashing May 20, 2025

@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930139#Comment_3930139
even without this its UNACCEPTABLE for frank stone to be thrown away and become a skin for 1 of the weakest killers ingame

Would you rather he was a skin for Knight, or an alternate guard for the Knight?

Like, what else could BHVR do with Frank Stone, that doesn't involve making him into a separate killer, that would make sense in DBD?

in Frank Stone is having totally wasted potential Comment by Coffeecrashing May 20, 2025

To be honest, if survivors are expecting Frank Stone to have camera counterplay, then I hope he's never made a killer. It will just be like Alien 2.0, where the counter items feel so awful for the killer, that the killer isn't worth playing.

Survivors getting killer counterplay items are NEVER fun or interactive for the killer. It's always just 100% for the benefit for survivors, and 100% headaches for the killer.

in Frank Stone is having totally wasted potential Comment by Coffeecrashing May 20, 2025

@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923225#Comment_3923225
This is only true at mid-high MMR where players on both sides are playing the strongest killers, add-ons and perks to try and outpace each other... which let's face it, if you aren't someone who consistently plays hardcore, sweaty, you are unlikely to be paired with those players.
A significant number of the player base,likely the majority, aren't playing super serious, aren't bringing syringes, BNPs and commodius toolboxes against Pain Res, Grim Ermbrace and DMS... not taking meta isn't throwing the game inherently, and I think it's harmful to any game to flaunt that idea.
With this in mind, the tomes and challenges encourage you to try new perk combos out, try to find methods of satisfying the challenge without throwing the game. The clue is in the name... it's a challenge. You take additional conditions on the trial while still attempting to win...
It makes what would otherwise be a stale, repetitive grind fest into a unique puzzle to try and solve. Gotta break 10 totems? OK, take a map with red twine, take Overzealous, Inner Strength, maybe Counterforce vs. TotH and then efficiently break totems for buffs to gen repair and healing speed efficiency. This isn't meta, but it isn't an immediate throw unless at the higher ends of competative play, and it can even come in clutch against killer with a dedicated Hex: Build.
Now that's not a great example, because there are peopel who won't try to use the perks genuinely and naturally in trying to complete challenges while still winning the game... but there are some challenges that can lead you to discover some pretty decent and surprisingly powerful combos that you might otherwise overlook, by virtue of encouraging you to try things, rather than just go along with whatever the most popular streamers and content creators are saying. There is nothing stopping any perk or ability being buffed in future where said totem challenge may not be a throw at all in future.
I don't think it's healthy for the game at all to expect or insist that everyone plays meta... it'd be like saying you have to play Nurse or Blight only on killer, which is of course... silly. People should and do play whatever killer they want, and the same should be true for survivor.
I never get mad at aomeone doing a challenge... Throwing the game to me isn't derived from what perks you take or what challenges you try to complete, it's deliberately getting yourself or your teammates killed with SoH, unnecessary and bad unhooks under the killers nose, or deliberately leading the killers to teammates on gens that I take issue with.

The tomes and challenges don't actually encourage the "without throwing the game" part, because it's not a requirement. If the challenges said "and all 5 generators need to be repaired that game" or "and at least 2 survivors need to escape that game", then it actually would encourage survivors to do the challenges "without throwing the game".

Because as they are now, we sometimes have survivors that run around the map breaking totems, then immediately try to go next, because their only goal for the entire game was to work on the tome challenge, and they want to quickly start working on the next tome challenge.

in Please don't fully remove Tomes! Comment by Coffeecrashing May 19, 2025

@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929329#Comment_3929329
Don't forget that she additionally has pretty much constant aura reading.

Yeah. I play 2v8 Nurse with Enforcer, which means that line of sight breakers are often useless against Nurse.

To be super honest, I think the actual 2v8 Nurse issue is there are too many killers that want to go lone wolf with 2v8 Nurse, because they think she's an S-tier killer that doesn't need any help chasing survivors. Meanwhile, if the Nurse does try to help their teammate, they're getting so much free aura reading that it's so much easier for Nurse to hit survivors as a team player than as a lone wolf.

in Will Play while you wait even work? Comment by Coffeecrashing May 18, 2025

@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929297#Comment_3929297
I gotta disagree with you on the nurse statement. Just me personally though. Nurse in 2v8 requires really good blinks and a far less mistakes than in 1v4 for me at least. I can play nurse in 1v4 without perks or add-ons and just vibe out where as 2v8 I gotta lock in every match.

You're saying 1v4 Nurse without perks or addons, feel better to play than all the above stuff that 2v8 Nurse gets? For reals? I just can't with this conversation.

in Will Play while you wait even work? Comment by Coffeecrashing May 18, 2025

@Twiggsy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929297#Comment_3929297
Hard disagree removing the buffs would do nothing to effect survivor enjoyment survivors have said it themselves it's core issues

Oni and Legion being way overpowered for 2v8, isn't a core issue with 2v8?

in Will Play while you wait even work? Comment by Coffeecrashing May 18, 2025

@LockerLurk said:
Coffee, they want to make the Killer queue times better because everyone wants to play Killer in this mode, but gives up and just plays Survivor because EVERYONE wants to be Killer. There isn't enough Survivor for all the Killer though and many people just give up and wait for the event to end, or give up and go play 1v4.
The AVERAGE player just wants to be able to play the mode. And many people who normally don't, may want to try Killer in the mode. That's always been part of the issue. This is the only mode you and a friend can play Killer together.

A major part of the issue is that many of the killers are way more fun to play as in 2v8, regardless of whether or not there is a teammate. BHVR should just remove all the 2v8 killer buffs, and see what happens to the queue times. (Maybe the underperforming killers can keep the 2v8 buffs since they need the extra help).

in Will Play while you wait even work? Comment by Coffeecrashing May 18, 2025

@Volcz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929142#Comment_3929142
Brother, I am not mad. I just want objectivity. Which this forum lacks, heavily. Its always one side vs the other.
I'm not trying to fight with anybody. I just want legitimate reasons laid out that MAKE SENSE, for both sides. Why is that so hard to provide, if your cause/opinion makes sense?
Your end point is fair but both sides are NOT equal. Survivors are forced into certain situations, particularly being bled out by the killer. They can do nothing. How do you attribute that to killers not WANTING to push survivors out at EGC?
This isn't a fight, this is just opinion vs opinion. We all have one..you voice yours, I voice mine.
Nothing more to it. Don't think there's any animosity cause there isn't. I want the game to be better. Thats it.

It's because the survivor abandon button shows up immediately after all the remaining survivors are in the dying state, instead of being delayed by something like 20 seconds, so that the last survivor can't just skip the hook animation or mori animation.

The survivor abandon button was supposed to be in response to survivors being bled out on the ground. But if the killer tries to start the mori animation ASAP after knocking the last survivor to the ground, then the last survivor isn't being slugged.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 18, 2025

The important detail is what happens when the player's killer queue is ready? Will they be immediately replaced by a survivor bot? Because forcing survivors to deal with more survivor bots, just so killer players can have a better quality of life, might not be good for queue times.

I also really don't understand why BHVR is putting so much time and effort into making the killer's player experience so much fun in 2v8, when the killer queues are already too high. It's like all the stuff killers want in 1v4, get added to 2v8, then we wonder why so many people want to play killer in 2v8?

For example, Nurse feels horribly clunky to play in 1v4, regardless of how good she is in that mode. But she feels amazing to play in 2v8 because they gave her so many buffs in the 2v8 mode. Of course I'm going to want to play Nurse in 2v8, because it's the only time I get to play Nurse where she's actually fun to play as.

in Will Play while you wait even work? Comment by Coffeecrashing May 18, 2025

@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928583#Comment_3928583
Sorry you have bad Ghostfaces on your team in 2v8. I've been destroying as him, and all the ones I've been getting have been excellent teammates that have helped a lot. Turns out the chaos of 2v8 makes it way easier for him to hide and stalk in, and if he's good at Marking you can even get some extra exposed downs.

He's fine. I'm sorry the people you have played with cannot play him properly. But he's fine. He wasn't nerfed.

Edit: Nope. I'm not having this conversation.

in 2v8 Ghostface is nerfed? Comment by Coffeecrashing May 18, 2025

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928580#Comment_3928580
This doesn't make sense for a lot ofreasons
1: There are 30 posts before Mandy posts. I don't see any discussing hiding, the discussion is about teabagging at the exit gate to taunt the killer. Your post seems to be the first one to mention that after she posts, you then seem to focus on trying to pull the discussion to that issue throughout the thread.
2: She quoted a specific post that dealt with survivors teabagging at the gate, not hiding, not EGC in general, just survivors teabagging at the gate.
3: The phrase 'push them out' is commonly used to refer to pushing out the survivor waiting at the gate, not hiding.
4: We weren't given an 'official reason' for why they don't have the abandon button here anymore than we were given a reason why survivors don't have an abandon button when a survivor gets eliminated or the survivor is the last one left alive and the hatch is closed - because both sides still have a realistic chance of accomplishing their objective. The trial is still ongoing.
To go to one of your posts from page 3 of this thread
People keep bringing up this strawman argument, of survivors that are conveniently waiting at the exit gates, just waiting to be quickly forced out of the exit gates. That’s not the main problem. The problem are the survivors that purposely hide during the EGC.
This thread is about people waiting at the exit gate to teabag the killer. It's not a strawman, its what people are talking about. You seem to have another issue you'd like to discuss that you keep trying to make Mandy's statement apply to. If you think survivors hiding out during end game chaos is a massive problem, make a thread about it (the only situation I've ever seen that is a closed hatch and usually its survivors looking for a key, but I've seen plenty of teabagging the killer).

It's much more likely that BHVR told Mandy that survivors waiting at the gate is the official response, and that is currently the only official response to give, which is why we never got a follow up clarification statement about survivors hiding during the EGC.

Because if BHVR actually had an official response to survivors hiding during the EGC, they could have easily just clarified their response.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 17, 2025

With the new survivor, we don't need complicated math or science to fix this. Just make her noises louder (except hook noises), and ask a few BHVR employees to listen to compare the new files to someone like Meg or Dwight, and ask they personally feel it's somewhere near the same volume level.

And honestly, they should be able to just grab the median decibel value from each of her sound files, compare them to the median decibel value of all the survivors (for the same sound file type), and adjust as necessary.

in Sound Normalization - Still a Problem? Comment by Coffeecrashing May 17, 2025

@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928458#Comment_3928458
Just run Fearmonger, it fixes literally all those issues except for the Reveal thing.

No. If I was running solo q killer in 2v8, I would never ever want Ghostface as the teammate, regardless if they picked Fearmonger.

Seeing a Ghostface killer teammate is massively disappointing, and just ruins the vibes of the entire game. I waited through a massive killer queue time, just to be disappointed before the game has even started?

The entire game, I would just imagine how much better everything would be if my teammate picked someone more useful like Billy/Oni/Legion/Blight.

in 2v8 Ghostface is nerfed? Comment by Coffeecrashing May 16, 2025

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928410#Comment_3928410
We're circling a couple of steps back in the discussion.
You say Mandy's statement is incorrect, but you aren't quoting the line she is referring to: How is 4 survivors bleeding out on the ground for a few minutes any different than survivors teabagging at a gate and not leaving for a few minutes?
She is talking about a specific situation, not just the general scenario.
I don't know how she would respond to the idea of survivors hiding out, but the best argument is that the killer can still kill them. Like the killer doesn't have to just force them out, the killer can still accomplish his objective against that/those survivors.
The abandon mechanic exists for situations were the chance for a comeback is astronomically low and/or the game could be dragged on for a ridiculous length of time. All the survivors standing at the exact line to exit the gate meets condition 1, the chance of a killer getting a kill there is almost impossible. A survivor hiding doesn't meet either, the killer still has a chance of killing them.

She was talking about the general scenario, because she didn't give any other reasons. If she wants to add additional information, she can do that, but for now we need to assume that was the main reason.

There is no "best argument", because we were only given 1 official reason why killers don't have the abandon button.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 16, 2025

Ghostface is a terrible choice for solo q 2v8, because solo q killers can't choose what killer their teammate is playing, and their teammate might be playing a killer that wants to damage survivors with a non-basic attack. This is especially true because Oni is the other new 2v8 killer, and he gets to be in blood fury mode A LOT in 2v8, and therefore doesn't get a lot of value from the exposed status. In fact, Oni players would prefer if their teammate didn't 1 shot the survivors, because injured survivors drop lots of blood orbs.

And Ghostface has terrible map mobility, and a stealth mechanic that gets worse when the number of survivors increases.

And if anyone's like "he's still good". Just remember that "good" isn't good, when we have hyper aggressive killers like Legion and Oni, that bring way more value to their teammates.

in 2v8 Ghostface is nerfed? Comment by Coffeecrashing May 16, 2025

@CodeDB said:
When y'all are arguing over this proposed mechanic, how are you envisioning it working?

Because right now, if a killer abandons a match, the match ends right there and that would be my issue with the killer having the option to leave as soon as the gates are powered/opened/whatever.

There are countless reasons for a survivor to want to play out the end game. There are specific achievements, rift challenges, and even just bloodpoint incentives for specific actions during end game. Add on the fact that the game is designed for survivors to only even see the gates powered in about 40% of their matches, it would make things even more frustrating.

If the survivors all abandon right now, there are still bots and the match can continue as mostly normal. The killer can still get their daily ritual mori, hook in basement, etc challenge done in that scenario. Until we have bot killers (or allowing an endgame with just no killer), I don't think this would be a good option.

The killer would be replaced by a bot. And considering how bad the survivor bots are, it would be fine if the killer bots just walked around like an M1 killer, if BHVR didn't have enough time to make their M2 power work as a bot.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 16, 2025

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928265#Comment_3928265
I'm saying the actual reason why survivors don't want killers to have an abandon button, is because they want to taunt the killer.
And I'm sure there are killers who oppose anti-slugging and abandoning because they wanted to keep survivors trapped in the game for as long as possible.
But it doesn't make for a productive discussion to discount a person's reasons because you might think there is a bias behind them.
4 slugged and the gates being opened are different. As I've been saying, I think there absolutely should be a way for a killer to abandon in this scenario, however it is more complicated than the slug issue.

Mandy’s statement literally said “the killer can do a lot to force survivors out of the match”. That statement is incorrect if the survivors are hiding in random parts of the map, until the EGC is almost done.

That's the only actual relevant thing to the conversation, because it's the official BHVR response. There isn't anything complicated going on here.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 16, 2025

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928091#Comment_3928091
Let’s be real here. The actual reason why survivors don’t want the killer to have an abandon button, is because survivors want to taunt the killer.
I've said in my posts that this feature should exist, it might need some conditions. I'm a survivor main.
You originally were trying to argue about survivors hiding in the map. That is factually a very different situation as I pointed out. You're now trying to change your argument to presumptions about people's emotional reasons.

I'm saying the actual reason why survivors don't want killers to have an abandon button, is because they want to taunt the killer.

I'm also saying people are making a strawman argument, that the killer can quickly just force the survivors out of the exit gates.

Both these statements can exist at the same time.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 16, 2025

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3928045#Comment_3928045
The abandon system should exist either for situations were the chance for any additional kills/escape is incredibly small
So that was from my post. Note the use of 'incredibly small'. I didn't say 0. When you say 'by that logic' you're confusing the difference between something with an extremely small chance of success and an absolute.
The chance that a survivor has unbreakable/deliverance/etc, can use it when all other survivors are dead/hooked/slugged, and still have a survivor achieve an escape is incredibly small. Statistically insignificant.
The chance that a killer with gates open can still gain kills isn't incredibly small, its pretty normal for it to occur.

Let’s be real here. The actual reason why survivors don’t want the killer to have an abandon button, is because survivors want to taunt the killer.

I’ve seen so many complaints that the kill rate is “too high”, and killers shouldn’t sweat for an extra kill….. but this is the one scenario where the killers really should try for an additional kill? I don’t believe it.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 15, 2025

@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927968#Comment_3927968
Worst part is they made the slugging DC a draw for survivors. Make that make sense.

Maybe it’s because the slugging abandon was mimicking getting bleed out on the ground, and maybe bleed outs are worth 0 MMR because the survivor didn’t get sacrificed or escaped?

@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927948#Comment_3927948
The argument people should be talking about are survivors that purposely hide during the EGC, because there isn’t a quick way to force them out the exit gates.
I'll start by saying that I think the killer should get an abandon option with the gate open, perhaps with a few conditions.
The problem with this argument though is that the trial is still going on. The abandon system should exist either for situations were the chance for any additional kills/escape is incredibly small (all survivors slugged) or the game has broken down (survivors just in complete hide mode for 10+ minutes, and that version still needs work).
If the survivor is hiding in the map, the killer might still kill them. This is really different than the survivors standing just on the cusp of the exit t-bagging.

By that logic, the survivor abandon button should be evaluated for things like

Is there a hooked survivor with deliverance?
Is there a hooked survivor that otherwise might self unhook?
Is there a slugged survivor with unbreakable?
Is there a slugged survivor, and a lit exponential?
Is there a slugged survivor and an open exit gate?
Is there a slugged survivor and an open hatch?

Certainly with #1 and #3, the game shouldn’t be considered over, and the survivor abandon button should be taken away.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 15, 2025

@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927927#Comment_3927927
It's not a straw man? If I clearly lost I should be able to leave like how survivors are able to when 4 man slugged. It doesn't feel good to get slugged and doesnt feel good to be tbagged at gates. Both are scenarios you can really do not a lot about.

The strawman is assuming the survivors will always be waiting at the exit gates, and therefore it’s quick and easy to force them out of the exit gates.

The problem with the strawman argument is people are saying it’s ok the killer doesn’t get the abandon button, specifically because they can quickly force the survivors out of the exit gates.

The argument people should be talking about are survivors that purposely hide during the EGC, because there isn’t a quick way to force them out the exit gates. And it’s not even realistic for the killer to find all the hidden survivors (that might be hiding in different places), and force them all out of the exit gates.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 15, 2025

@Brimp said:
Yeah idk. Its just the doublt standard is kind of crazy to me. When survivors abandon because they're all slugged its because they believe they have little chance of coming back. But the hypothetical of a killer abandoning when the gates are powered/egc starts is 99% of the time going be because they believe they can rarely come back. Also yeah not to mention survivors Tbagging in the gate. And before I hear anything about "just force them out" it's not about forcing them out its about the rubbing it in feeling. They want to waste time for me to walk to the gate and force them out but its fine if survivors can just DC when all 4 are slugged/hooked?

Just make it make sense.

It’s also not about forcing the survivors out of the exit gate, because they’re often hiding on random parts of the map, until the EGC is almost over.

People keep bringing up this strawman argument, of survivors that are conveniently waiting at the exit gates, just waiting to be quickly forced out of the exit gates. That’s not the main problem. The problem are the survivors that purposely hide during the EGC.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 15, 2025

@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927830#Comment_3927830
Or, as I told you already twice, you can hit them out.
The killer still has agency in this situation, and the base kit tools to resolve it. Especially since "hit them out" is also faster than your randomly chosen 1 minute.
The devs also told you this is the answer, so at this point I'm not sure what else to tell you.

You can’t hit survivors out of the exit gates, if they are hiding in random parts of the map, because they purposely want to wait until the end of the EGC to go to the exit gates.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 15, 2025

Why was it a high priority to fix Orela’s hook screams, but it wasn’t a priority to fix the fact that her other noises are way too quiet? Is this even on the list of things that need to be fixed, or are we ok with pay to win survivors?

in 8.7.1 | Bugfix Patch Comment by Coffeecrashing May 15, 2025

@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927399#Comment_3927399
It was common enough for the devs to address it, which they did.
Abandon being used to 'go next' is just a by-product of an actual healthy fix and going next in this situation has no negative consequences unless you want to bleed-out players or force them to watch a mori. I don't see why either of these should be mandatory, having them be optional is fine.
The killer gets to win, survivors get to move on from a lost match. Nobody is losing out.
Again, I am aware this logic could be applied to the OP's idea, but in that case, the by-product is being made the actual feature, which opens the door to constantly petitioning for more and more ways to abandon a match, there's literally a post in this very thread stating the killer should be able to open the door at any point in the trial, for example.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927391#Comment_3927391
The statement isn't incorrect because it was never made to be an objective statement. You are the one trying to force objectivity in that the killer would never be able to find survivors in the scenario you have created, which not only doesn't fit, but is nonsensical in nature.
Furthering that, the killer would still have autonomy in the situation you describe because they can still find the survivors who are hiding, and failing that, the game would still time out after two minutes.

If there is an open hatch or open exit gate, then a slugged survivor still has the autonomy to crawl around the map, and could potentially escape the match.

Which means slugged survivors shouldn’t be able to abandon if there is an open hatch or open exit gate, if we want to use autonomy as the criteria for the abandon feature.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 14, 2025

@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927329#Comment_3927329
And how does this make what Mandy said incorrect? It shouldn't have to be stated that it wasn't an objective statement unless you're trying to force semantics.
In the 1/100 chance that the killer somehow fumbles so bad that:
A - They have no idea where any survivors are.
B - They have no perks/addons/powers that assist in finding survivors.
C - The survivors all hide the entire two minute duration and escape at the last second.
There already is a solution and this scenario isn't relevant to OP since the killer would be playing the entire time and there would be no BM in the Exit Gates.

Mandy’s statement literally said “the killer can do a lot to force survivors out of the match”. That statement is incorrect if the survivors are hiding in random parts of the map, until the EGC is almost done.

“The killer would be playing the entire time” isn’t relevant, because that wasn’t Mandy’s statement.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 14, 2025

@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927318#Comment_3927318
Unbreakable works once, and exponential can't be applied to a totem while you're downed (but it can be snuffed).
Which is also a meaningless distraction from the core point of this discussion, which is that, base kit there is no way for survivors to get themselves up from dying.
And the options for killer, being force them out, go get BP, or just ignore them, are all base kit features.

If there is an open hatch or open exit gate, then a slugged survivor still has a basekit way to escape the trial.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 14, 2025

@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3927322#Comment_3927322
I don't speak for them. But it is true that you can do a lot.
I just dont think it's true a killer will consistently lose all four survivors and spend the entire EGC searching for them without finding any of them.
This sounds like a very niche situation that already has a remedy being that the EGC timer is faster when all four survivors are standing. And just because it can happen does not render the myriad of other situations where the killer is in control of how long the EGC will last invalid.

Unless the killer finds all 4 survivors, and forces all 4 survivors out of the match, then the killer failed to force all the survivors out of the match, and therefore failed to make the ECG end quicker.

in Killers should be able to abandon when the gates are powered Comment by Coffeecrashing May 14, 2025

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