ChuckingWong
ChuckingWong
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872648#Comment_3872648
I’m convinced I am talking to a child at this point.
If you can’t comprehend the mere idea of a boon exponential then I don’t know what to tell you.
lite boon, get slugged, crawl to boon…you have teammates that can get you up. Are they slugged? Crawl to boon? Boom snuffed out? Use unbreakable, constantly going against slugging killers? (Not likely) bring we’re gonna live forever.
You literally have tools to use to help circumvent this. I know it’s not what you want to hear - because you want to just be able to get up effortlessly everytime a killer slugs but use what you have.I am not for slugging and I think there should be a better system in place but here we are.
The problem with this deep dive here is it required no perks to slug
But apparently requires all the perks to counter it.
Same thing as tunneling, requires nothing to do but requires everything for counter.
As seen by the popularity of chaos shuffle, people like to play with perks for some fun. It adds a different flow of the game, rather than being "have to run X because of Y"
Think we both agree that several minutes of play of inactivity is probably not the intention of the devs on gameplay for survivors. This is why old eruption is not a thing anymore.
What is the answer for slugging? Honestly the hooks were put there for a reason, and the devs want to have an extremely long timer for slugging, so I wouldnt really have a problem with just basekit unbreakable infinite but be a bit slower to recover to make up for this. You should be interacting with the hooks as a killer.And then maybe have unbreakable the perk has some other effect.
Slugging should be this thing that maybe you can do short term but not waste several minutes of everyones time in a match.
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Its so bad yea.
My killer matches I always give hatch. Fengs get priority as well. Esp bunny ones they are too cuteIll have them downed and several times they have DCed most likely because they think Im gonna mori but I have agitation folks im taking ya to hatch.
But yea … its stupid that its even a thing. -
@UndeddJester said:
So I have a challenge to get 18 sabotages... I was thinking to myself trying to get 18 legit sabotages would take me days... so instead I figured I'd end up spamming it whenever possible...
Since this is probably a throw, I thought why not lean into it and make a build where the entire purpose is to sow confusion for the killer?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/B5BADZUCDKJC/1945a4e0c6724-screenshoturl.jpg
- Sabotuer obviously causes a notification whenever we break a hook.
- Diversion let's us be creative with creating more noise notifications remotely.
- Red Herring let's us mark a generator and pop a notification remotely.
- Quick and Quiet let's us pop a gen quickly remotely, and then we can burst out of the locker shortly afterwards to make another noise notification.
- Randomly fast vault every now and again to make another noise notification.
I figured this build was stupid, and we'd probably get tunneled for being a pain in the butt, so I'd get completely smoked... but in a weird way it actually helps cover bad skillchecks, and strangely all the other random notifications actually makes Red Herring not suck... If you ever miss a skillcheck cause you're a scrub (like me) it just adds to the Chaos and doesn't matter, the killers ignore it...
I've made multiple killers DC in just a few games thus far... I'm just screwing around for my challenge... am I a bad person? 😭
"Why do survivors give up on hook"
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Cause of it needs to be fixed but bhvr has done nothing but make it worse so thats not happening.
If go next is somehow disabled without any of its causes fixed, then its a go next on this game lol -
The amount of times I have had windows do anything for my opponents in a benefit, is eclipsed about a thousand times over by the amount of times some lithe brain goes to a dead window, or unsafe pallet.
Complaining about windows…
Sheesh… -
@BroRespectTheBoop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868502#Comment_3868502
Survivors staying in a gate is at max an extra 10 seconds? Killers slugging at 5 gens and leaving you on the ground to bleed out is 4 minutes. They are not the same.
This.
As if anyone tries to compare the two.
Which is funny because as a killer you dont lose basic control of your character for 5 minutes. You still have it, but choose not to. So its even worse if you try to compare the two things. -
Theres nothing to defend.
The game has become so massively unfair for anything other than competitive grouping, so you can coordinate. That playing like that is just a guaranteed win.And killer matches against a competetive group is about 1 match every 10-12 matches for people that play this game as a living. So the people here defending it REALLY dont have a reason as 99% of their games are against soloQ.
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It does let us know about the player base a bit.
Take nurse for example.
On the lowest end of kill rates. Not once, not twice, but three times in a row.
Strongest killer in the game (not disputing) and yet low kill rate = majority of killer players have a ____ issue. -
@XtremeDBD said:
Maybe its just cus of the winter break that friends are coming together and all to play, but there has been a massive jump in 4 man SWFs who do nothing but run deja vu, quick gambit, prove thyself, wake up, friendly competition and adrenaline.
These people do nothing but do gens for 4 minutes while one dude just pre drops and gives quick gambit to all 3 of their jockies. This has been super unfun to play against and i think its time BHVR nerfs these perks, maybe allow QG to only provide benefits to one survivor, make deja vu similar to prove thyself where only one 6% is applied to a stacked gen.
Other then nerfs, how is deadlock not basekit yet? Survivors shouldn't be able to completely repair a big ass machine so fast, that just kills immersion lowkey.
Survivor is being made stronger in the wrong ways, instead of focusing on perks, maybe focus on solo queue buffs. Like a In gamd voice chat, even mobile had that before core somehow. These just feel like super easy fixes icl.
When you learn to pressure and chase… and just play killer in general.
Gen rush isnt a thing. -
Surprised red herring didnt make the list
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I mean the games current state is just load up survivor and lose. You have to hope the killer is bad for the match to go any duration, much less have a chance at winning or escaping.
Sad but true unfortunately -
Use horrific addons and not tunnel, slug, or camp. Spread hooks evenly.
Like in the event que I use nurse and limit myself to a single blink, while using the comb(decreased lunge) and using the bracelet (shorter blink).
Or on pig I do sneak pig and lunge only.
Its fun to use meme addons and restrict yourself to see what happens, rather than sweating -
lmfao…..
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@Kn1ghtmare32 said:
I'm a duo or 4 squad survivor player mostly. All I read commonly from this thread is how killers are at huge disadvantage. I firmly believe killers need to play survivor before they start saying changes need to be made constantly. I'm not a pro nor a amateur. I'm a mid player and when I play usually win 1 out of 5 matchs roughly. Don't get why killers want game handed to them? If survivors get debuffed so much they won't play anymore then we left with all killers…I know there "sweaty" survivor teams but those aren't all survivors. Same with killers. My main point is if we push majority of player base to sidelines this game won't last. Need to play both sides of game before suggesting change. If your a killer saying this survivor perk op then try it out b4 coming on here screeching to devs.
Why do killers think they always losing?
Because some people focus on micro rather than macro. They dont see their 70-90% win rate on killer, only the 4 matches they lost across a week against good coordinated teams they hardly run into. -
You need to learn to let survivors do specific gens. Particularly safe ones. The generator in that room, is a free safe gen but it doesnt help their cause if they only leave the rest of the map open for the mid and end game.
Usually if you have a survivor go there, they also go up top. And that results in a win on killer; both those gens are best saved for end game, and that rarely happens. -
Whatever dev thought of this mechanic should be removed from the company. Literally the problem starts with them
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Kick people who tunnel/Slug
Implement smart AI for it, something I dont know.
They get a matchmaking ban if they continue to do it.
These things need to be gone from this game already if you want people to even entertain playing 50% of your game anymore (survivors) -
Another mode to be slugged in but with snowmen and ballz
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Its not just this event.
Ever since they did the stupid mori last survivor thing its just been non stop.
Honestly 2 matches just afterwork alone of a chucky and a billy doing it…
Like why even play an entire side of the game anymore unless you are in some coordinated group of survivors?
You basically are brain dead on killer now with how maps are being generated and win a majority of your matches, regardless if an swf shows up or not, so its just
I probably waited around more, than actually played the game. Thats how bad this ######### is getting… smh my head at this point. 2 matches for the day, both waiting on slugs on the ground and thats the day.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
that is allowed to go unpunished in this game.
I watched a streamer who plays Billy and he is extremely good with him but he plays every match by slugging the entire team and bleeding them out in EVERY match.
How is this not considered griefing?
He does it very intentionally to make the experience as miserable as possible for anyone he verses and seems to get great joy from it. He has been streaming on and off for years and every match he seems to go out of his way to make the experience as miserable as possible for everyone else.
Ive seen a few billy's doing this and its so unsportsmanlike.
Interact with the hooks thats why they were in the game.But this is something that has to be addressed by BHVR its getting out of hand at this point.
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@thrkeybs said:
This isn't a topic about balance. I'm not interested in which side you think is stronger, or what needs a nerf. The topic at hand is fun, enjoyment: jouissance.
Survivor is no longer a fun role.
Strictly speaking about how the role "feels", there is no joy in playing survivor anymore.
Being slugged on the ground for 4 minutes is not fun.
Watching a killer proxy camp you, only to immediately chase you and tunnel you out is not fun.
What was fun about this game was the reward of learning loops, pallets, timings. If you played enough, you were rewarded with learning how to get better. If you spent time researching how to play the different tiles, it then became a game of chess between you and the killer: who could better mind game a loop, who could better read the other player.
This is no longer the case, as most tiles have been turned into unsafe loops, where your best play is to force a 50/50.
Most killers are no longer even interested in looping, and understandably so. Why chase a survivor in a strong tile when you can tunnel their teammate out? Lower risk, higher reward.
I know this has been talked about ad nauseam on the forums, but the finisher Mori has really incentivized another really unfun aspect: you already lost the game, as it's just you and someone else, but now you're forced to crawl around on the floor so that the killer can watch their Mori.
Again, I'm not interested in the strength of any of the things I've mentioned — I don't care. I care about having fun, enjoying the game I've paid money for and spent a lot of time investing into. There has to be a way that BHVR can make the game more enjoyable for both sides, and that's what I'm interested in.
Edit: I'm going to compile the grievances that people post in this thread here, so that the feedback can be passed efficiently to designers of the game.
Compilation of Grievances found in this thread:
Survivors
- Being slugged feels uninteractive and boring (This includes waiting for the killer to find other survivor for finisher Mori, but also things like 4k slugging)
- Gen / healing / totem time feels like a slog and also boring
- Map Design
- Unsafe pallets discourage looping or more in-depth strategic play
- Massive dead zones
Killers
- Gens are being done too quickly
- Hooks do not have enough incentive when compared to slugging
Survivor is no longer fun
Yea outside of events I would probably agree. No real reason to play it.
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just got out of another one and yup. Give peopel a mori on last survivor, incentivise slugging.
Idiot move by BHVR -
Dont know. Game has turned into "hope the killer is stupid" in order for a game to actually last any duration and any POSSIBILITY of an escape.
Just the reality of things now. And all these silly killer updates that are completely unnecssary have just been reinforcing this idea.
We cant even get a solution to tunneling but we have to take a hook state and get exposed for it. Tunneling should flat out not be a thing in this game. Not put a perk into the game, that you cant have any coordination or use in SoloQ for. -
Not much challenge when I keep seeing unsafe pallets getting released.
Is there an actual safe loop besides killer shack in the new map? -
outside of the slug the 3rd and look for the 4th thing that is happening ad nauseum.
Having some funny interactions with snowmen and balls i guess. Its funny for awhile, nothing to amazing or anything. -
Amazes me how its even allowed still. There is 0 counter play to it.
Killer wants you out, youre out. Absolutely nothing you can do about it. -
@Raptorrotas said:
For a 3k apparantly being a win it surely doesnt give a "win bonus" like a 4k.
Complaining about people wanting to 4k is like complaining about wanting to escape once the doors are open.
Its also funny how people are allowed to delay the disadvantageous EGC by 99ing the door but stopping the hatch from opening by the slug is frowned upon, such hypocrisy.
Horrific comparison.
what even is this?
99ing a door doesnt make you lose basic control of your character and you have to sit around for someone else to come open it for you for several minutes.
You know, the whole point of people disliking being slugged?
SMH my head. -
Just got done with time waster slug match number 5 in between my POE2 mapping.
Gotta say I dont know why survivors even load into the game anymore. -
You dont have to run any perk to tunnel.
You do have to run perks for anti-tunnel.
Much good -
These are maps I think are balanced. I dont like seeing map offerings at all though and wish they were just removed at this point.
But…
Think… macmillans and autohavens are … fairly balanced.Crotus'.
Swamps.
Red Forests
Shattered Sq, not Forgotten ruins…Toba's and Nostromo. Hate them both on both sides…. maybe not so much Nostromo for survivors…
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Its another one of those things where its like…
Yea its extremely valuable and nice to have but good luck getting people to run it in any cohesive way outside ofcoordinated swf
And even if someone takes it, its hard to work around things when you lack all basic communication. It can turn into a complete troll feed perk very easily in soloQPlaying soloQ you already have trouble getting people to take things like reassurance, we'll make it, kindred, etc….
Altruism isnt the most attractive perks for most players
Which is big sad. -
Putting time and devotion into a certain character and having benefits?
Dont see the issue. -
@emetSdidnothingwrong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3851189#Comment_3851189
You missed the entire point of my post. Idc even one bit that this perk is being nerfed, I don't play hex builds because of how random they are, I just think these forums are obnoxious and filled with nothing but people crying and moaning about the most recent game they lost.
Nothing on these forums is positive anymore, no one even talks about buffing things, it's nothing but constant crying and moaning about how this thing that someone dislikes because they are actually just bad at the game but it's never their fault they lost it's always something else. It's just exhausting is all, nothing here is constructive anymore, everyone is a negative nancy.Gave you examples of nerfs that happen to both roles since you were so fixated on things that get removed from killers, and killers have it so bad, and maybe killers should just have no perks.
For your reference here it is again:Imagine if this response was given for every nerf we have seen to broken perks
Brokenground player, MFT, both versions of old DH, buckle up+ftbroken combo
Old eruption, infinite pain res, ultimate handhold, deadpausegrim combo
Things get nerfed that are problematic. But to make it entirely about one side is hilarious.You missed the entire point of my post.
The point of your post was to complain about complainers lol. In a completely one sided way (no surprise) and then you go off the deep end and say they should just remove everything from killers.
You say reception, panned by the community here and content creators that play this game for a living, as
"complaining""nothing is constructive"
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Perhaps we should just remove all killer perks from the game, then we can start complaining about killer add ons
Imagine if this response was given for every nerf we have seen to broken perks
Brokenground player, MFT, both versions of old DH, buckle up+ftbroken combo
Old eruption, infinite pain res, ultimate handhold, deadpausegrim combo
Things get nerfed that are problematic. But to make it entirely about one side is hilarious. -
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850372#Comment_3850372
I'm saying the downside should feel impactful for all killers. But if an M2 killer like Huntress uses their power on an exposed survivor, it only takes off one health state. But if the downside was broken instead of exposed, then the downside would feel impactful against M2 killers.
This is supposed to be a high risk / high reward perk, but against M2 killers it's often just high reward.
It is though.
M1 killers are M2 killers just with an advantage.
M2 killers dont HAVE to hit you with M2. They can (and should) just zone you and hit you with M1 if you shoulder someone.
You can make the argument for nurse sure but this perk wont matter to her (if you are any good at her). -
LMFAO!!!!!
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850349#Comment_3850349
Is Shoulder The Burden getting addressed in an upcoming hotfix too? It's miserable when multiple people in the same game are stacking the perk on the same survivor, or are daisy chaining the perk (i.e. survivor B uses the perk on survivor A, then survivor C uses the perk on survivor B). And the perk inflicting exposed instead of broken, means the perk's downside is doesn't matter much against M2 killers because exposed doesn't work with M2 hits.
It feels like we had two problematic perks this chapter, but one of the perks got so many more complaints, that the other perk is getting completely ignored.
The two perks are not comparable at all.
Not mattering much against m2 killers….
You trying to say M2 killers are in some sort of disadvantage ? -
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849874#Comment_3849874
To be fair, with how terrible some maps have become, together with the sheer amount of killers who are oppressive in chase, I no longer expect chases to last long at all.
Honestly.
Im seeing deadzones and just blank spots nonstop on maps now. Entire sections of the map where there is just a single or NO pallets. Or the pallet that is there is like the ones in ormond on tables and a snowman lol.
Not sure what the map logic is turning into but its a bit annoying. -
Uh… she seems middle of the road.
Def not as bad as people are making it out to be.
Side note: Throw pebble should make the dog play fetch with survivors 😂 -
@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850003#Comment_3850003
My interest is in win streaks and the general game, not explicitly balance because I think its a very nuanced topic.
I wouldn't have even commented on this thread if you didn't bring up win streaks but when you did, I was intrigued. So, I brought up the recent ones I've been seeing to relate and provide what I'm seeing to see how it relates to your streaks you've been seeing (which you still haven't specifically referenced, by the way).
So, I guess I just don't know how this is straw manning to ask for the examples you explicitly referenced but I apologize if it comes off that way.
And what is your point then? I don't want to misconstrue it but if the point is that a team of 4 survivors with 10,000 hours each on comms playing explicitly to get 3 escapes no matter what only managed 20 in a row proves some sort of imbalance towards survivors, I'm just not sure I follow.Its not they are just changing topic since their original point held no weight and was a bad comparison and trying to distance themselves from it.
Its talking points that they hope people know 0 specifics about and just accept, but unfortunately I do :D. (its not like this stuff is not on the internet)
Best to just move on as there really is no point and they know it. -
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849971#Comment_3849971
In addition to this: didn't Otz have a video that his survival rate over a lot of games was basically 40%? I haven't seen it, but I know it gets referenced in a Hens video that tends to come up a lot.
Edit to add: Also, the only really survivor streak I'm familiar with Otz trying is hardcore survivor and they start fresh accounts for that, so they get lots of matches at brand new MMR.Yup his soloQ test over like ~300 games he got to about 39.X% escape rate.
Theres a chart out there for it let me see if I can find it
Found it:https:/bit.ly/soloqdata
Not sure where all the discussion is around it, lotta videos and too many channels, but he made videos about it a year ago. Talks about how even trying his hardest it usually ended up in a loss. -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849953#Comment_3849953
Right, because again, he goes on crazy difficult challenges. My point is that even handicapping themselves they still manage to go on big 30-40+ win streaks. There are survivor teams that have gotten hundreds of wins in the past by playing the best stuff, it exists on both sides.
No it doesnt there is a single team(eternal) or 2(elysium) that have managed to get about 100 and they play comp dbd
Otz and his friends havent got to 30-40 .
Please stop making things up.
Your comparison is still terrible and they arent even in the same realm of people who make killer streaks, and coordinated SWFS making streaks.
So not only do comp[ SWFS not get several hundred win streaks, the amount of teams even out there that are capable of even barely over 100 are limited to less than the number of half the fingers on one of your hands.
Killer several hundred win streaks there are several dozen. -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849940#Comment_3849940
Have you never watched otz? He goes on challenge streaks all the time with his friends. Usually they are absurdly hard so they don't get into the 300+ games, but they certainly complete them. Also, whataboutisms aren't useful.
Apparently you dont pay attention when you watch him.
Hes never got to several hundred wins in a row on a survivor. I think he probably has reached in the 15-20region in terms of survivor.
This isnt a whataboutism this is reality.
Your comparison is just laughably misplaced, with the difference in magnitude between the two in the order of several decimal places. -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849902#Comment_3849902
High MMR also shows that nurse only has a a below 50% kill rate and that freddy is a better killer than her. So i'm not talking about whatever BHVR says is "high mmr". I'm saying, that when played at the highest level the game is very survivor sided. This is very apparent given that comp tends to ban a ton of stuff for survivor, and have different rule and scoring systems based around hooks and chases rather than just binary "escape/kills"
Plus i can point to you the exact same kind of streaks and challenges on survivor side. Remember otz doing the one where they had to like, escape with every survivor and perk?
You cant point to the "exact same kind of streaks and challenges on survivors side" when that number is not in the several hundreds or even thousands of win streaks(Supaalf).
Go ahead and point us to the win streaks [comparisons] emphasis on sample size and "s" though and it will become apparent there is one side clear out in narnia with several hundred for kill streaks and the other is barely reaching 20 escapes -
@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849705#Comment_3849705
So survivor sided that we can have 300+ kill-streaks on even 'bad' killers.
The reality is that the game is killer-sided until 'high mmr' where its more of a mixed bag due to various means of cheesing a skill gap.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
Yea its not even high MMR though either.
Load up any streamer of your choice that plays more than several people in here combined and when they play they lose a majority of their matches on survivor.
It really is only coordinated SWF that you see consistent talking points for "survivor sided"
Most SWFs are just friends dorking around with one another as well. So its such a small portion of the player base that even is coordinated in a group.
People over exaggerate their matches to try to justify why they lose, just the reality of things for whatever reason. Been proven time and time again when we get to see what actually happens in real gameplay. -
"Just wait it out"
"Just let go of the gen"
"Just run light-born" -
Hah.
No -
@GeneralV said:
I don't think being forced to run something you don't want to would be good for the game.
Yup this.
And in recent news I especially dont think any perk/playstyle should have a large enough effect to "just run X" as a response. -
Its pretty unanimous that this perk is way overtuned and not intended to be this oppressive. Doctor/Legion/Plague matches with this perk are just over before they start.
The same things were said about old DH, old Eruption, old brokenground player, old MFT. None of those talking points were good enough then and they arent now.
It will need to be tuned down quite a bit to even be in the reasonable category anymore. -
Dont even know what the post is even trying to say either.