ChiSoxFan11
ChiSoxFan11
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Playing survivor and killer last night during what's considered "peak" hours, my killer queue times were longer, but not dramatically so. Two minutes or so vs. literally instant before. My survivor queues were shorter, which considering I normally have had to wait 5 minutes plus to get into a match is a positive. If killer times stay what they were for me last night, coupled with the shorter survivor queue time, that for me is a positive.
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The grind for perks -- absolutely reduced, and it was a great change.
However, having to go through a ridiculous number of bloodwebs to find either an item as survivor or add-ons as killer worth using -- that's an INCREASE to the grind, and it's not a positive change at ALL. It makes bringing items that are actually useful in as survivor much harder to do (with the risk of burning through them you have if you end up in a bad run of matches), and if you're playing a killer that is reliant on add-ons to be useful (and there's more than a few of those), then it's even worse.
There needs to be a change to the rarity of items in bloodwebs after a prestige, or a sell-back option for BP for the junk stuff no one ever uses, If not, then even a BP incentive isn't going to be enough to make up for that issue.
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I have pretty shaky eyesight at times, so following scratch marks can occasionally be an annoyance for me. I've played a few matches as killer now where I had trouble tracking someone, and it turned out they were running Lightweight (and more than one of them, Overcome with it), so from my own experiences I can say that people are sleeping on the perk's effectiveness (I plan on experimenting with it now). I was already using Overcome prior to this update, so Lightweight looks like something definitely worth trying out.
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Even before this patch, the number of games that I or my teammates have lost because someone not with me/us DC'ed off the bat, or quit on hook, was too high. In tandem, the number of games I might have lost before the patch that I won instead as killer because someone rage-quit because they were the first one down, or didn't like the killer, etc. was also surprisingly high for a game that, prior to this update, was definitely survivor-sided in nature more often than not.
In SO many games, either playing survivor OR killer, there's matches that feel like 3 v. 2 instead of 4 v. 1 because there's a survivor who is actively sabotaging their side by not playing the game normally. Survivors win games when they work as a TEAM (and I do play a decent bit of solo, and the most satisying escapes are when I'm able to coordinate good teamwork with randoms I'm not on comms with -- it CAN be done, even if it's not easy). When they don't, those games go south, and it's the lack of that team mentality that is the downfall of those particular matches as much as anything you'll find in this (or any other) update.
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@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080853#Comment_3080853
80 seconds of blocked Aura reading and ye olde Iron Will after both unhooks is pretty good. Even if you commit to a conspicuous action or get hit, that just removes the Endurance effect. The Iron Will and Distortion effects remain for the full 80 seconds.
I assumed that the IW/Distortion aspects of OTR were bugged -- if that's the way the perk is actually supposed to be functioning, than it makes it even better. I've literally hid in plain sight from a killer after working on a gen with it and assumed it was a bug. If not, than I'm even happier with it's potential to be a DS replacement than I was before.
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I don't know if there's a defined "meta" yet -- that probably will take a little time and experimentation to see something shake out.
On my end, I never used Dead Hard, so seeing that perk driven into the ground (which I think was a good thing) doesn't bother my builds in the slightest. I used to run DS on every build, but I've put OTR in its place -- if I'm going to get tunneled, instead of getting downed and potentially left on the ground for my DS timer to run out, now I at least can stay on my feet with the endurance affect and get to a safe loop to waste more time of the killer, helping my team, so for me, those perks are at worsr a wash in efficiency.
My exhaustion perk is Overcome, which I was running before the new update, and it's a perk that got more valuable with the quicker cooldown on killer hits. I've almost always run Prove Thyself, which I think certainly will see an uptick, especially in SWF's (I run it even as a solo). My last perk was always COH, which I still think has value, but the new Lucky Break is potentially very strong and I've run it with great success numerous times now since its change (it was strong before, but with the usual BT/DH/UB/DS that so many people ran, as strong as it was, players didn't want to seem to experiment with it).
Playing as killer, the only real difference I've noticed in the survivor builds I've gone against has been the lack of Dead Hard -- instead of seeing 3-4 a match, I've been seeing the perk rarely, often not at all or at most 1-2 people still hanging on to it (and the number of people who've actually used it correctly is even fewer). I've seen a number of PT's, some people running Lightweight and Lucky Break as perks to help them lose the killer in chase, and a handful of "healing builds" with Botany at its head. Exhaustion perks are still there, but they've been vairied now -- I've actually seen Balanced Landing and Lithe more since the update than I had in maybe the month of games I played prior (and that's not an exaggeration).
This update seems to have been focused on key points -- forcing people away from the perks that were run non-stop by both sides (and that seems to have worked, as I've seen that playing on both sides), and pushing the game into more lengthier matches, where chases mean more, gen-slamming means less (or potentially it DOES mean more, since doing so is harder to do), and DH isn't the deciding factor in every interaction between killer and survivor. I've seen a lot of that in the matches I've played since the update (most of the games that I die in as survivor have still been competitive, and a lot of losses that were one-sided had as much to do with rage-quitting teammates sabotaging everyone else as much as anything, and my killer matches really haven't been all that different from what they were before -- my kill rate was already pretty high, but the only real difference I've seen is that I'm not playing around DH every single chase now).
There's been a LOT of overreaction on this board, but that's typical of what you see here. I always point out in my posts that I play a LOT of this game (literally 25 hours+ a week, split almost evenly between survivor and killer) and I have two years and thousands of hours in the game at this point, so I think my experiences carry some weight, but clearly this is only a representation of MY games -- and your experience may vary, I assume that things will get tweaked on either side at some point if there's an issue (I think the SC and DS nerfs were ill-thought-out as a couple of examples), but overall, I plan on playing around with builds on both ends and seeing what works.
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Apparently, the phrase "small sample size" isn't one that everyone has heard before, or understands.
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@VoidOfMe said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/K43TMENN5MJ7/switch.jpg
I thought this would be switching throughout the day
what happened? where are the survivors? I'm getting long qtimes as killer.
Where are you from? Maybe it's your region that's specifically imbalanced.
I'm in CT NA, and my killer queue times are instant as they always are. Playing survivor for most of the afternoon, the BP bonus was there (not that it's working properly, as it seems to be bugged and not giving BP to everyone in a party), but the waits were still there to play. Not too lengthy, but definitely longer than what the killer wait was afterwards, which makes no sense.
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I can confirm that the BP's aren't being distributed to everyone during matches, as survivor at least. Played as part of a SWF for most of the day, all with the 100% binus in effect: some matches, I got the bonus and my teammates didn't, some they did and I didn't. It seemed completely random and 100% bugged, not shockingly, lol.
And I haven't seen a killer bonus yet either, and as was stated, I had numerous wait times playing survivor even with the bonus and nothing on the killer side, even though my killer queue times have been instantaneous (not over as long a period as what I played survivor, but nonetheless, all 10 secondsish for waits).
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Just finished 3 hours plus of survivor -- there were bonuses for survivor play, but the queues were not instant. FWIW, the BP's weren't being given out correctly either, as at various times, people in our SWF were not getting the 100% bonus -- so I'm assuming that's a bug?
Meanwhile, I switched to killer and got, as I always do at this time at night, an instant queue. So, not sure how that's working as intended (since a perfectly balanced system would in theory be giving similar wait times regardless of role), but here we are.
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FWIW, survivor queue times are ALWAYS relatively quick during the day, so this isn't breaking news any more than telling people the earth is round, lol.
Assuming things fall into form the way they always do -- or have in the two plus years I've played -- survivor queue times will increase as the day goes on and get lengthy when it's nighttime, and the killer times will be close to instant the way they usually are. I'm guessing that there are more people who don't normally play killer that might be testing out killer today, but if they didn't like it before, nothing earth-shattering is in this patch that will change those players' minds about what they like to play, and the instant killer queues at night that are the norm should stay that way, or relatively close.
As someone who likes to play survivor, but it's mostly at night with friends when it takes forever to get into a match, I'll have no complaints about anything that shortens up my lobby simulator.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067006#Comment_3067006
Define "survivor greeds". I would argue on any map in the game a survivor can reasonably search 4 boxes if they are not being tunneled off, and if the pig is patrolling boxes + gens she is throwing because that is a huge amount of ground to cover.
Agree with this 100%. Even the worst of maps -- arguably RPD (which is getting re-worked anyway at this point) -- with the addition of the 5th Jigsaw box, even if a survivor gets their trap activated on the hook, they're still going to have time to do even a 4-box search UNLESS the Pig is tunneling them anyway. If that's happening, well the tunneling means that player is dying anyway, trap or not, due to the ... tunneling. (I always wonder why anyone would ever BM a Pig, as that's the ONE killer other than a face-camping Bubba, that can guarantee you die no matter what if they get a trap on you before the last gen pops). The only times -- and it's been few enough to count on one hand, with fingers left over -- that I've died to an RBT was because the Pig tunneled me off of hook and I couldn't search a SINGLE box safely, never mind multiple, but that wasn't anything specifically related to The Pig, but to the person playing them, and those matches would have had the same result no matter what killer they were playing.
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As much as I love to watch Otz and think he's on-point on much of what he talks about, anyone who thinks Pig suddenly needs "nerfing" (as one well-known troll has already stated in this thread), doesn't play Pig, or against her ... or survivor at anything resembling competency (and this is not a dig at Otz, who is a fantastic survivor player as well, but he's so above almost everyone he plays with/against in skill level, his opinions -- and those of other content creators who play on a different level -- often need to be taken with a grain of salt. It'd be like getting Michael Jordan's take on if pro basketball was "easy" because of how he dominated the sport -- there's no relation to how people of that skill level see what they do play out and the other 99% who do the same thing who just aren't on that level).
The Pig is a killer without high-mobility to get a snowball going early in-game (ala Nurse or Blight, as prime examples). She has an Ambush attack that is VERY situational and useless in countless loops that just are too big for her to capitalize on -- and other than that, she has NOTHING in her kit to help her in chase. Her stealth, with such a slow crouch speed, is nearly useless against anyone paying attention to their surroundings (at best, you'll get closer to start a chase or maybe a hit, but her stealth pales in comparison to GF, or Wraith, or even Myers in Tier 2 with Monitor).
So -- no legitmately dangerous stealth, nothing to help in chases, no insta-down potential (without the use of a perk to accompish it), and nothing to build towards in the endgame. ALL she has is innate slowdown through a secondary objective in the RBT's, and even those can be finicky -- if traps are on but no gen pops to activate them, they're literally cosmetics for the survivors until they come off -- and that's assuming you're getting all four traps on before a final gen pops.
THIS is a killer that anyone thinks should be nerfed? If you're losing to a Pig player, then either they legitmately outplayed you, or you played poorly, or it's a combination of both -- but it's not because the killer is overpowered and needs changes (she arguably does, but they are NOT nerfs). Complain about Pig, and you probably should just ask for killer bots with the AI capabilities of Nemesis' zombies to go against for your experience to be one you're happy with. I've NEVER gone against a Pig in two years plus -- including since her RNG trap change -- that I thought "Man, this killer is too strong to beat", where as I CAN say that's happened against certain Nurses, Blights, Spirits, and Huntresses (though again, even with THOSE killers, that feeling was as much as to how good the player behind them was as much as it was their strength as a killer).
And while I didn't see all of the matches Otz played with Pig that he talked about in his video, the one he DID showcase featured an AFK player to start the game, and it's not like that sample game ended with the survivors dying at 5 gens -- they still got him down to the final gen. And this is against Otz, who can play killers with meme builds and perkless and everything else under the sun and still win or 4K because he's that damn good at the game -- which is NOT going to be the norm, but the exception, for people playing the game in general. Otz going on a win streak playing Pig doesn't mean she's all of a sudden too powerful, it just means he's better at the game than anyone posting in this thread is, and almost any player playing Pig in general.
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Even the killers in the next-to-last tier, I still enjoy to some extent. But playing Trickster is just a chore, especially on console.
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The "nerf" to Corrupt is vastly overrated, IMO. I don't think you'll see people getting less real value from it.
Corrupt keeps people from immediately jumping on a gen they spawned in front of, and forces them to move out to other gens, using up time. If a killer gets a down early to deactivate Corrupt, the other survivors will have already moved on to an uncorrupted gen and will be working on it, just like they are with the perk currently. It's possible, but not likely in most game situations, that someone will leave a gen they already have put decent work into in order to cross back over part of the map to work on a different gen that's now open due to the perk deactivating (except possibly on one of the maps where a potential 3-gen is strongest and needs to be broken early).
And if the killer isn't getting a down really early in the Corrupt part of the match, then it's still staying up like before, and again, the other survivors will have even more time invested in whatever gen is getting worked on instead, so there's no real change there either. The killers I run Corrupt on, I plan to keep it on, as I don't think it's going to be much different in effectiveness.
My only issue with Corrupt -- and this change doesn't affect it -- is the number of times that the 3 gens furthest away from me are blocked (so, no weird split when you spawn in the middle of the map) and survivors have somehow spawned super-close to my spawn point and in front of a gen that isn't corrupted. Hearing a gen that you, in theory, shouldn't have needed to check on (or took a quick glance at, not realizing survivors were already there), popping stupidly early in a match because survivor spawns are sometimes goofy is the only thing that makes Corrupt a headache for me when I run it.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Auto aim hitting pallets/walls instead of the survivors.
This, a thousand times over.
Whatever aim-assist (or whatever one wants to call it) that's programmed into this game is hot garbage. Nothing is more frustrating than taking a swing at someone right in the middle of your screen in front of you and seeing your weapon getting yanked into some inanimate object.
The game truly thinks I hate random piles of junk, walls, pallets, and the like.
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It's one of the only Tome challenges I left undone. I've sacrificed four in the basement before, but I didn't have the challenge selected. When I do, I'm not going out of the way for it, so it just hasn't happened.
Closest I came was playing "regular" Trapper (no basement build) on Grim Pantry with basement at main. The survivors made a number of catastrophic mistakes stepping in traps near there, and I had three hooked and dying in basement while carrying the fourth there ... and the fourth survivor rage-quit just before I could get him on a hook. I was furious. 🤬
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As killer, it's facing a bullly squad and getting the 4K, especially when it's a cocky group teabagging and macro-clicking their flashlights that's a little too overconfident in their abilities. Knowing that for at least one match, they weren't ruining someone else's night with their stupidity.
As survivor, coordinating a last-minute save during EGC with randoms when I'm playing solo or with a friend. Only made sweeter by having that rescue coming against someone who's either camped or tunneled from the beginning of the game. Same thought process as above.
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I just finished playing a handful of rounds as killer tonight, CT in NA. Pretty much no waiting arounrld for killer rounds, per usual.
I did see the longer waits during the Anniversary, but I attributed that to higher BP totals killers could make. Even then, my queues weren't terribly long.
Survivor queues when I played on Monday and Tuesday night were shorter than they sometimes are, but they still were somewhat lengthy.
Your experiences, obviously, may vary.
ETA: Just rebooted the game and readied for a lobby as killer. Had a match ready to go on 8 seconds, lol. I think it's definitely different from region to region. No survivor shortage where I'm at, apparently.
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I almost never bring a Mori. I try to keep hook states in my head, but when you're up against multiples of the same character, some with the same cosmetic, it can be difficult while trying to juggle everything else (more so when a team leaves someone to go to 2nd stage and I don't realize it and end up ending their game unexpectedly).
I used to use BBQ to keep track at least that I'd hooked everyone once before finishing someone off -- since I'd removed it on the majority of my builds for better perks, I've found I have a lot more instances where someone will be dead and someone is in the match I've haven't hooked yet, and it's not on purpose. The loss of the BBQ bonus (and the objective of getting those 4 stacks) is going to have a negative result in that aspect, not just for me, but for many other players, I'm afraid.
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@M4d_Psycholog1st said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3048661#Comment_3048661
Except when someone spawns right in front to your totem... ... Dead by RNG.
True -- though at least that particular build (with Pentimento) almost begs them to cleanse totems for me to relight (and hopefully, waste enough of their time and shield either Devour or Ruin with the Pentimento totems) to allow enough pressure to build.
This team I faced was at least a partial SWF, if not a 4-stack, and I know they saw my totems (as some of my chasing went right by some of them), but they didn't want to touch a single one. Maybe they were afraid of Haunted Ground, but they knew I had Ruin (since I pushed multiple people off of a gen at least a couple of times, even in that short of a match), so even with obvious totems -- one which was definitely affecting them -- they ignored them at their own peril.
FWIW, this was more of a meme build for me anyway -- I've stopped running Hexes (other than Plaything on certain killers) since the spawns are SO awful 95% of the time.
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@Wondertainment said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/333187/killers-to-be-replaced-with-bots
The sky is not falling. I've never understood why Forums are overrun with Chicken Littles. What are my thoughts on replacing either side entirely with Bots? I think people would lose interest real quick. Bots are either too dumb or too smart. They are not AI and thus patterns emerge. Once you know them you cannot lose. If you make the Bots too efficient you cannot win. There is no middle ground. This game only works being PvP making use of the unpredictable nature of the human animal.
So to reiterate, no the game is not about to die because of the upcoming changes. It is silly for you to suggest it. The speculation is unwarranted and in and of itself a crude manipulation.
All of this, and then some.
The overreactions by people playing either role, every time changes are made, border between hilariously bad takes to seriously biased opinions that can't be taken seriously.
As someone who plays both sides, I'm excited to see how things are going to shake up once the new update hits, and it's going to take a while to see how, if at all, things really change.
And I agree completely on the Bots take -- I don't want to play against AI with the thought processes that my zombies show when I play Nemesis, whether it would be survivor or killer. If the game ever came to that, it would be a sign of its imminent demise.
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@Patrick1088 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/333165/what-is-actual-genrush
Gen slowdown perks and secondary objectives help offset somewhat. Secondary objectives being totem hunting, Cenobite's box, pig traps, etc.
One of the best way to get survivors off gens is Devour Hope. It can snowball very quickly. If you pair it with Undying/Haunted Ground then it's going to be funny very quickly how fast they all get off gens lol
If you have a non M1 killer you can even try to hide the exposed status until the last stack (Billy, Bubba, Plague, Trapper).
But with the gen speed being slowed it will slowdown the game a bit and I don't think most people see full on sweaty genrush teams
Devour is a nice surprise to teams that hard focus gens and nothing else.
I had a game recently playing The Dredge, running an all-Hex build -- Devour, Ruin, Undying, Pentimento. Playing this build before, I usually see multiple totems broken at some point, but this particular game, nothing was broken. We were on The Game (where granted, it's one of the only maps where totems are even remotely well-hidden), and the survivors I did chase simply held W and ran pallet to pallet while their teammates pounded gens (again, smart strategy on their part considering the imbalance of that map).
I had three hooks in right around 4 minutes of the match, but in that time, they'd still managed to slam 4 gens. In chase with someone while someone else was sitting on a hook, I had cornered them and made the mistake of playing cat-and-mouse with them waiting for Devour to proc, but this team left the survivor on hook go into 2nd stage to pop the last gen (in what was barely the 5 minute mark of the match). Leaving a teammate to go to 2nd stage on hook (and I was a mile away from them, so a rescue would have been easy to accomplish) to finish a gen, even the last one, is technically "genrushing" by definition, I guess, but their unwillingness to break a single totem (some of which turned out to be in pretty obvious locations, as it turned out) cost them. When they finally got the unhook, that was the 3rd stack of Devour, a bunch of insta-downs and subsequent unhooks occurred, and I ended up with a 3K -- all Moris -- anyway, despite the quick gens.
I do think the term "genrush" is used far too often, as are people describing situations involving "camping" or "runneling" that either aren't those situations, or that are necessary strategies depending on how the game is progressing. Doing gens when there's nothing else to do isn't a "genrush", but simply smart play. Prioitizing gens over everything else -- like rescuing a teammate, or cleansing that obviously those obviousy lit totems you walked past and ignored to hop on a gen -- is, but that can at least sometimes be punished (as I was able to do).
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3047830#Comment_3047830
I was certainly on the younger side when I started playing.
I'm still probably one of the younger one's on the Forums too.
I wouldn't have guessed that -- you carry yourself as being much older (meant as a compliment). You tend to have well-stated opinions, are respectful even with those who disagree with you, your posts show little in the way of any bias and have an understanding of the bigger picture of the game, and you show a level of maturity in your posts overall.
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While I think it's a legitimate tactic, if you're running it in coordination with a SWF to pull out all the stops to deny a single hook, then you have to be prepared to face the consequences of that tactic.
I went against a 4-person team recently -- everyone with Boil Over, one No Mither player, multiple people bringing Breakdown, one Saboteur, multiple sabotage toolboxes, an Exponential Boon, AND an RPD map offering to top it off. Once I found someone, it turned into multiple people running upstairs into the library (and into the Boon's range -- the totem wasn't actually in the library, so it wasn't an easy stomp to get rid of it). I pretty quicky realized the match wasn't going to be fun for anyone.
Ended up mass slugging anyway, eventually getting someone out of the library and onto the hook in the middle of the main room (our of range of the Boon), then further away from the Boon and into the hallway corner off of the main room. As someone who NEVER does this, I face-camped the person on the hook -- I was playing Nemesis and had 8 stacks of STBFL at that point, so someone was either dying or they were going to be constantly hook-trading. Ended up killing 3 of them (last got a lucky hatch).
I can't imagine it was much fun for anyone. Even though I "won", it was more tedious than entertaining (though more fun than if they had all escaped and I'd never gotten a hook). It's borderline exploiting a terrible map design that makes the library "can't get me to a hook" a thing, but since there's a very unfun way to deal with it, when I run into those type of teams, I just have to adjust and get my hands dirty if need be,
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665 on Killer total and 908 on Survivor (spread out on everyone, though Pig and Meg have the most), for a total of 1573.
I had way too much time to play, lol.
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1) Nurse is actually good for the game. A killer that is actually completely unique, a killer that vastly rewards those that play her great and strongly punishes those that don't, a killer that has to be played by survivors against differently than any other killer, and a killer that you have to play entirely different when you're in control of her -- all of that is good for the game. There's nothing as satisfying as playing against a solid Nurse and running them well -- it's one of the moments in the game that I get the greatest satisfaction from as survivor. Her kill rates suggest that the number of "bad" Nurses far outweigh the number of high-level ones, so the "problem" she supposedly is for the game is, IMO, overblown.
2) Perk balancing by the devs tends to be sketchy, Nurse nothwithstanding, so changing her fundamentally wouldn't suddenly make the devs understand how or why perks needs to be adjusted or designed. Look no further than the questionable DS stun change -- a change that benefits all killers, but none more so than the top level killers (Nurse and Blight). The fact that the devs couldn't forsee that result makes me question their thought processes in general. As far as map design, just look at The Game rework -- a change that literally turned it into a hell for basic M1 killers, while a pallet-ignoring Nurse isn't bothered at all. Clearly Nurse's presence in the game didn't affect whoever approved that abomination of balance, since no one could possibly have reworked the map saying "We need to take Nurse into account -- let's add 1000 pallets that she'll bypass but the rest of the roster can't", so I don't think she's affecting map design (and the problems that have occurred with some of them) either.
3) Play who you enjoy. I'm a terrible Nurse player (on console, no less), but I'd like to improve, so I practice with her to no success (since I don't use her that often, any improvement has been slow). If you want to "win", you can do so with any killer with enough practice. If Nurse is who you enjoy, then play her. It's literally that simple.
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I didn't agree with the stun time change at all -- as others have said, it seems like a decision to force people to run OTR instead, which will be, if used for an anti-tunnel perk, providing more value than current DS did (a longer window of protection, and you're not going down if you're actually being tunneled and get hit).
I agree with the new deactivation conditions -- I have happily abused current DS by getting hooked in Endgame and immediately jumping onto an Exit Gate while my rescuer heads off to either unhook someone else or take a hit, and I've never understood why that was a thing that didn't deactivate it before. But the stun time, especially against certain killers, seems so inconsequential that it won't matter. There was a time not terribly long ago when DS was bugged against certain killers and it became against those killers largely ineffective in its use -- that's pretty much what the new stun time amounts to now against everyone, and against the killers that could already get around it with more ease (Nurse, Blight, etc), it'll be next to useless.
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-- Pig: Deadlock // Monitor // Whispers // Jolt
I've never been a fan of either Monitor or Whispers on Pig. Even with the change to Spine Chill, she's just not a stealth killer along the lines of Myers, Wraith, or GF due to extremely slow crouch speed. Gen grabs are too fickle to go for, and most maps are too big for her to go stealthing around for too long at any point in the match, IMO. Whispers is really only best at the very beginning or very end of the match, and Monitor doesn't reduce her TR enough to warrant the slot with her slow crouch speed.
I'm not a fan of Deadlock either on her -- especially since the RNG on her traps was changed -- you WANT survivors to get at least a couple of gens done. Active traps = survivors who won't all be getting them off on first Jigsaw Box anymore, and that's usually the slowdown I need to bring gen progress screeching to halt once the party hats start going on.
I still think Corrupt should still work fine with her (which I run currently), since if I'm getting a down early, I don't care if it deactivates (since someone is getting a trap on their head very early in that case). I've run Plaything for a while on her now (paired with the Face Mask add-on -- the aura blindness means they're not seeing their totem until their hat comes off) -- it's nasty already, and the change to Spine Chill will only mean it causes more havok.
I could see Jolt as a gen slowdown perk (Pig still needs one -- I'd rather something that I can repeatedly get use from, whether it be Pop/Overcharge/Call of Brine/Scourge Hook or Jolt over the one-time use per gen that Deadlock gives). While Deadlock can work with some killers, I think it's somewhat of an overrated perk and not woth an automatic slot, especially with the options for actual regression that are available.
I still plan on running Corrupt/Plaything to go with a gen slowdown. STBFL is good on almost every killer now I feel like, and even with Pig's Ambush being inconsistent depending on how good the survivors play around it, it might be the 4th perk for me going forward. I am looking forward to seeing how the new changes work with all of the killers.
@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
Hard disagree with that Demogorgon build.
First Save The Best For Last never has been and never will be meta on Demogorgon, not as long as Black Heart exists.
Second of all, Lethal Pursuer with Enduring is better than Endfury.
Lethal Pursuer will synergize extremely well with Demogorgon's best Add-On, that being Leprose Lichen, increasing its effect by 2 seconds (from 3 up to 5 seconds). That's extremely powerful, better than any other Aura reading Perk in the game.
Deadlock, I'm iffy on. It can work, but it depends on how you like to play Demogorgon. As someone who enjoys controlling the Map more than chases (as Shred is already an amazing chase tool), Call Of Brine or Overcharge would be better, or maybe both if you don't want to use Enduring.
A "meta" Demogorgon build would probably be something along the lines of:
Lethal Pursuer/Call Of Brine/Overcharge (or Pop Goes The Weasel)/Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance
As someone who can hit Shreds, but not as consistently as I'd like to, I've always gotten great value out of STBFL, but I can see your point on the perk. What I 100% agree with you on is the effectiveness of Lepose Lichen as an add-on. Not only is it Demo's best add-on, it's straight-up arguably the best add-on in the game for ANY killer. An on-command (literally) aura reading on all survivors, regardless of situation or distance, is insanely good. i'll probably try LP with it, but I even think that's overkill -- the 3 seconds alone after a port is usually enough for me to get all of the info I need when I'm taking advantage of it.
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@Sluzzy said:
For very good reasons they are not. Everything has been taken away from the survivor role, BHVR shows an extreme preference to the killer role with continuous and never-ending killer buffs. The survivor objective is going to become even less likely to be completed, buffing gen regression perks (Overcharge to unprecedented levels). It's too easy for killers to down survivors with no counterplay in majority of situations. Survivors constantly nerfed and poor killer gameplay heavily encouraged (ie. Bloodlust buffed).
Camping is also being buffed. The game feels extremely unfair when playing survivor and BHVR has done nothing to improve that, only make it worse.
So, I can take it that all of the calls to nerf Nurse, the best killer in the game (and THE best beneficiary of the change to DS, a change I myself was not in favor of), is something you'd be in favor of, right? With things as bad as you claim, bringing the hammer onto the OP killer of all killers is something you'd go on record as being in favor of, correct?
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037332#Comment_3037332
One of us is lumping the thoughts and experiences of everyone in a certain role together (hint: it's not me).
Am I wrong though. Do you think any person who plays survivor has fun being camped out of the game at gen 5. I think we can globally say that all survivors don't have fun being camped out of the game at gen 5.
You're literally arguing with yourself at this point. I already said that it wasn't. I also said I've had more fun (and had better results) playing survivor in the last month or so than at any point since I picked up the game two years ago. My experiences, which I made sure to qualify. That seems to be your problem with what I've said (or at least, that's the clear inference I'm getting), since at no point have I said or suggested that it's "fun" to be camped or tunneled at 5 gens, or that you're wrong in saying it isn't "fun" for the person involved.
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037269#Comment_3037269
To answer another question -- is it fun to be face-camped or tunneled? Not especially, though if my getting face-camped or tunneled means my other teammates get out (even in solo), then that's a "win" on my end. But it doesn't happen with the frequency that some people claim it does -- there are stretches where there's a number of bad matches, but that's to be expected -- no one can expect every game to be great for everyone all around. That's simply not realistic, not should it be, in a game where there's invariably going to be winners and losers in a match. But I'm skeptical of people who're claiming it's happening every match, just as I'm skeptical of people who claim every match they have as killer is against a loaded SWF, or every survivor match is against Nurse or Blight, etc., etc. (as that's not my experience, and I play a LOT of matches).
You agree that being camped within 1 step and tunneled at gen 5 is not fun. Do you feel that being camped within 1 step and being tunneled at gen 5 is necessary?
I think camping and tunneling as the game progresses is fine, I'm not saying that should go away.
But, at gen 5, there isn't any strategy in that, it doesn't need to be part of the game and is very unfun for the survivor. Why is it a problem to ask for an issue a large number of survivor players find unfun to be fixed, you included.
No, I don't think getting camped or tunneled at 5 gens is necessary. When I play killer, I don't do that. Your point?
Has it happened to me before? Absolutely. Going down against a Bubba early, getting drug to the basement and face-camped right out of the gate isn't particularly enjoyable. It happens. I can live with it, because as I said, it happens infrequently to me -- and I play in the ballpark of 30 hours a week, split across both roles -- that I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
It's not a "problem" to want to see something changed, and I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that I either said or suggested that it is -- I on;y shared MY experiences, no more. One of us is lumping the thoughts and experiences of everyone in a certain role together (hint: it's not me). What I will say is that, until there's a mechanism in the game to encourage that to NOT happen -- and one that isn't inherently abusable -- then it'll happen again, and I'm chalk it up to a bad game and move on to the next. It doesn't mean I'm going to enjoy that match, but I'm not going to dwell on it either.
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I always shake my head at any posts that, whether purposefully or inadvertantly, group all "killers" or "surviviors" together as a hive mind, as if there's newsletters and custom jackets that go out to people playing the role as if everyone thinks the same. Most people -- at least the ones who want to get the most out of the game (and certainly, those who want to get better at it) -- play both roles. And that's what they are -- not "killers" or "survivors", but individual people who're playing a role in a video game. No more or less.
Speaking only from my own experience -- since I'll certainly acknowlege that there are people who play either role who don't enjoy the game for one reason or another -- I've enjoyed playing survivor more in the last month (and during the event) than I have since I started playing the game two years ago.
That's mainly due to getting better after having put in enough hours on both ends. I run more meme builds now than ever before, I occasionally (when with my SWF group) play perkless or with No Mither as a challenge, and my solo survivor experience is usually pretty good -- I crammed in a bunch of matches this morning before the event ended, with far more escapes than deaths (and the deaths, with the exception of one match, ended up with 2-3 other people escaping). It's been stress-free and fun, and I find far less intensity in that role than when I play killer. I pipped to Rank 1 faster this month than I have in any month since they changed the Grade system.
To answer another question -- is it fun to be face-camped or tunneled? Not especially, though if my getting face-camped or tunneled means my other teammates get out (even in solo), then that's a "win" on my end. But it doesn't happen with the frequency that some people claim it does -- there are stretches where there's a number of bad matches, but that's to be expected -- no one can expect every game to be great for everyone all around. That's simply not realistic, not should it be, in a game where there's invariably going to be winners and losers in a match. But I'm skeptical of people who're claiming it's happening every match, just as I'm skeptical of people who claim every match they have as killer is against a loaded SWF, or every survivor match is against Nurse or Blight, etc., etc. (as that's not my experience, and I play a LOT of matches).
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3032271#Comment_3032271
Yes, without a doubt. Sometimes the teammates are beyond bad.
But that just makes the moments when a team of randoms totally kicks it off even more epic.
I enjoy solo queue as well. I do play more with some form of a SWF, but I never have a problem with solo games -- some go great, some not so much, but there's more good than bad.
Had one of those moments just a day or two ago -- managed to coordinate a rescue with two other randoms, not on comms with them, to save a hooked survivor being camped by a Huntress during Endgame. Very satisfying and well-played by everyone, including the killer, and a fun match all around. This is more common for me, at least, than not.
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@IamFran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3030813#Comment_3030813
It is the smallest open map... only 132 sqt and its main building is small and not so strong compared with other maps.
Exactly. I play a lot of "slow" M1 killers, and I have never been upset with that map. Give me Coal Tower over a corn map or any of the Badham maps anyday, and much preferable over Ironworks. Or the Swamp maps.
The poster you quoted mentioned Hag -- one of the easiest games I've ever had was Hag on that map when the basement spawned in the main building. A couple of traps at the openings, leave the breakable walls up, and everyone who went into the basement never came out.
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A thousand times "no".
DC's ruin matches for everyone else involved. Giving people the opportunity to do so without repercussions for the most ridiculous of reasons has always been a disaster.
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I used to run Ruin on pretty much every killer build. Now, it's relegated to only a couple (and only because they're killers I rarely play and don't have any other slowdown on them).
The only Hex I run with any regularity is Plaything on my Pig build, and it's always effective (the number of times I've run into an Oblivious survivor headed for or on a Jigsaw box is astonishing). Paired with the face mask add-on (blocking auras of the totems for trapped survivors), it's heavily underrated on her.
I'll every now and then throw on Devour (never expecting it to actually make it to 3 tokens, never mind 5), and I have played around with an all-Hex build with Wraith that counts on totems getting destroyed (Haunted, Plaything, and Ruin to go with Pentimento). That one has been not-bad so far. Otherwise, hex spawns are universally SO bad (with the exception of only a couple of maps), they are almost always simply not worth running.
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Literally just escaped a Nurse as a solo on Midwich. Hooked once (right as I was opening an exit), but two of the other survivors were on death hook. 4-person escaped. Even finished the Rift challenge to escape with a basement item.
So, short answer to the question .. no. Nurse can be beaten. Not easily, but not impossible, even solo.
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@JohnWick1654 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025612#Comment_3025612
75'% is still good, it means if you are slightly far away from killer he probably can't hear you
To be fair, I've almost never run the perk myself, but when I did, I found I got insane value from it more often than not. I have a friend who runs it on every build -- he's constantly able to hide right under a killer's nose while injured and goes unnoticed. I'll be curious to see if he still will after the change.
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@JohnWick1654 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025586#Comment_3025586
You really don't expect a DBD player to ragequit regardless if they are winning or not?
Never saw a person DC in the middle of a death hook animation?
Sure I have, more times than I can count. But those players are rage-quitting when they've already lost. That's certainly not the case here -- if the screenshot showed everyone still alive, that would be a more plausible explanation, easily, than a disconnect for other reasons.
But the number of times I've had a killer rage-quit in the middle of a winnable match, I can count on one hand and have fingers left over. If they did, it was idiotic, as they had racked up a substantial BP total, in the middle of a Bloodhunt and with that many flans, including their own, in their game. As I've already said -- more unlikely, but still possible.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025572#Comment_3025572
Destroying it. 75% quieter groans at tier III, disabled while exhausted.
It's not completely useless, but it got heavily gutted, and I'm guessing a lot fewer people will be running it -- which is what BHVR wanted, I guess?
If they had left it at its current 100% reduction, but had it inactive when exhausted, that would have provided a greater skill use of the perk and would have been an interesting way to rework the perk. But the changes to both elements seem to relegate it to not worth using now.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025568#Comment_3025568
As a bush, I can confirm his nightfall is a pain. I end up just running to the edge of a map and praying he doesn’t come by and find me. If he does I’m screwed since I can’t see anything.
Yep -- there's no hiding if the Dredge thinks there's someone near where you are.
I've been stunned by watching survivors run into walls, to the edge of the map away from a god-tier tile, into obejcts, directly into me, etc, during Nightfall. And I've found myself laughing at my own survivor play when I have no idea where I'm going, and when Nightfall ends, I end up asking, "How did I end up HERE?". 🤣
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@JohnWick1654 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025552#Comment_3025552
Why would the former be preferred? The guy was bad and clearly got mad that I was better,
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025563#Comment_3025563
I have no idea what they are doing with IW but I thought it was pretty ballanced perk
Unless you have telepathic mind-reading capabilities about someone who might be half a continent away from you, or unless your opponent was in the same room as you and tantrum-throwing their mouse or controller across the room, you have no way of knowing what they were thinking (and unless you have a video of the match, all we have is a screenshot and your interpretation of it).
The only thing anyone looking at your screenshot can take from is that a killer with a flan in the lobby and two kills in the bag disconnected. The inference can come from looking at context. If no one was dead, or if there were no flans in the lobby, then there would be more reason to presume a rage-quit (though, again, the only thing we have is your take on how and why it happened), but it would be more plausible that what the in-game contect suggests as an alternative possibility.
I stand by what I said already, It's possible they rage-quit because you were "clearly better", but it's just as likely they lost connection, if not more so likely given the situation in-game at the time of the DC. Without anything else other than a single screenshot, there's no way to know. To be fair, the entire thread seems like a "pat-myself-on-the-back" vibe to it, but to each their own.
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@StarLost said:
Yes to the first, no to the second.
He's a wonderfully designed killer in that he's very intuitive baseline, but very difficult to master.
I'd agree to that. I found him very easy to pick up and do well with to start, but knowing when and how to use his remnant at loops to land hits (which takes a bit to learn the timing and best placement) and when and where you'll need to teleport to lockers will require practice, but the better you get at those things, the more oppressive this killer is in those hands.
FWIW, I think his Nightfall power is much like Pinhead's Chain Hunts, and might be his true strength. I'd like to say I'm surprised by how many times I catch a survivor in the open unaware with him while in Nightfall, but playing against him as survivor gives me the answer, as it can be incredibly difficult to navigate around when you're in it, and it's easy to misplay a tile, miss a safe loop, or simply run into an object while his power is in effect.
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@JohnWick1654 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025509#Comment_3025509
He had 2 kills, and than hooked me, and than I unhooked myself with Deliverance after he stopped camping me, and than it was a chase..
And ... ?
I get one of two things out of that endgame screen. Either that player lost connection, or they DC'ed in what was still a very winnable game for either a 3K or a 4K (even if all the gens were done at that point).
I'd say because of the sitiuation (2 dead), the former would be more likely than the latter, as the latter is incredibly idiotic -- but the number of rage-quits I've seen from survivors (only 1 from a killer, since the BP totals, even in a game you're losing badly, are still pretty good) during the event means the latter IS plausible.
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@WeenieDog said:
I'd be more inclined to believe they got disconnected or timed out then rage quit if I was the survivor.
That's what I'd assume, though obviously, seeing game footage would provide more insight.
I've seen survivors rage-quit in 5 flan lobbies when they're the first one downed, and I've seen killers rage quit in similar 5 flan lobbies when 4 gens have popped and they haven't gotten a single down. But someone rage-quitting in a 4 flan lobby (where they brought one) AND where they've already gotten two kills (and presumably, a ton of BP at that point)? That looks like a technical issues disconnect, not a rage-quit.
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3025376#Comment_3025376
Self-Care is the most slot efficient and reliable self-healing tool for solo queue.
Circle of Healing isn't good for solo queue because other players break totems and you have to bring either a map or a totem finding perk for it to be reliable.
Pharmacy isn't a good replacement because other players open chests and you have to run around trying to find those chests while you are hurt.
Inner Strength isn't good for solo queue because other players break totems and you have to bring either a map or a totem finding perk to be reliable also.
This is a very bad nerf for solo queue, which is already the weakest players in the game. Why nerf an almost required perk for solo-queue which can absolutely be ignored by SWF.
You are right about tunneling, it will be slightly better. But I don't think there was enough done for it. And when I mean tunneling, I mean tunneling someone out of the game at gen 5, regular tunneling is fine and required sometimes.
I play a lot of survivor, both SWF AND solo survivor. I'll politely disagree with the idea that COH isn't good for solo.
As many games as I've played, I've learned totem spawns pretty well, and it's almost never in a match that I can't get a boon in a solo match up because of my teammates breaking totems. If anything, my teammates are ignoring totems in solo and hard-pounding gens, so setting up a boon is usually pretty easy.
Med-kits are far better than either, so solo players can always go that route. I agree with the people who say that the Self-Care nerf was not warranted and a head-scratcher from the devs (one of those moments that make you wonder if they actually understand their game), but using COH or a med-kit as an alternative is a better option than current SC anyway.
To answer the OP's topic -- I'm largely optimistic about the changes. I think they made some questionable decisions (reducing DS's stun timer, obliterating Ruin's effectiveness, etc.), but overall, I'm excited to see if the meta actually changes, and how things are going to play out on both sides. I think the changes might hit solo players more than they'll effecr SWF groups, but the game's devs continue to ignore that elephant in the room, which is the largest issue it would be nice to see addressed at some point (and I say this as someone who plays a lot of SWF).
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Even though I play all survivors at some point, Meg does most of the heavy lifting and is who I first picked the game up playing -- but I don't show favortism towards Megs in game. I've given hatches/doors/farming matches to pretty much everyone on the roster at this point. It's more about what that player has done in-game over what character they're playing.
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Because, even though there's flaws in the game, I really still love to play it?
I picked up the game 2 years ago after having watched people on YT play it, and I haven't regretted it for a second -- and I play a LOT. Even as much as I do, I've never felt burnt out. The gameplay is fun, I love both roles in it, and every match has the potential to be something I've never experienced before.
Have there been bugs? Absolutely. Are there things that could be changed to make the game better? 100%, yes. But I've seen things over that time pushing the game in a positive direction. I run into the "bad" elements of the community in some of my matches, but it's not constant tunneling or camping when I'm a survivor or constant BM'ing or one-sided matches when I'm a killer. Overall, the game gives me enjoyment every time I play it, and my experiences are far more good than bad.
For the people that don't enjoy the game, they need to step away from it. Why do something you don't like -- or have --to do?
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I counted when I was done playing tonight -- I'm sitting at just under 700 total, with a little over 500 spread across all of my survivors (the most I have on any single survivor, is around 40), and the rest spread over all of the killer roster. I've been bringing in a flan in every match, killer or survivor, so they've been multiplying nicely. I've played more survivor than usual since the event started, but once I put in some decent killer time through the weekend, that probably will even the numbers out for me.