ChiSoxFan11
ChiSoxFan11
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@Beatricks said:
Up until this patch I tried really hard to see things that way. But I just can't anymore. Killers are so insanely unreasonable that I can't put up with it anymore.
SoloQ needs a little loving, because it's miserable.
~No, every survivor is a toxic 4man SWF with 4 toolboxes who BM at every opportunity and now cry because we don't have dead hard.
Maybe at least Nurse's addons can be looked at?
~Nope, we are whiny survivor mains who are salty that without DH we can't bully killers.
Literally nothing gets through to their heads. Literally zero empathy. I'm done being nice.
Stop, read what you posted, and listen to what you just said.
Do you really think a thing called "killers" exist? That said term actually is real? That there's a hive mind that goes through things with a robotic mindset that controls everything you encounter? Sheesh.
There is no such thing as "killers" or "survivors", nor are there hive minds that think or act alike. There are individual people playing a VIDEO GAME in which the results that take place in said "game" aren't the end of the world, even if some hyperbolic people make it out to be exactly that.
There are simply people who play a "role", sometimes solely one or the other. There's plenty of people like myself who play both roles, who understand the frustrations that have come and currently do come with either. There's actual children playing the game, adults acting like children, really crappy people who're playing for the wrong reasons, a handful of old as %$&# people like myself, and a LOT of people, adults and minors who're just trying to have fun when they hit "ready", and many of us still are trying to have that fun, even when the game isn't perfect at times.
You said you "tried really hard" to realize that there are people -- those aren't perfect people, but flawed people who don't always do the right things, sometimes even if their heart is in the right place -- on the other end of the game that you're playing? And now you won't anymore, as if that would make things better for anyone?
Try harder.
The "pick a side" nonsense that pollutes this community and this forum is tiresome, unnecessary, does NOTHING to improve the experience of EVERYONE who IS playing the game to have a good time, and it counterproductive to actual, meaningful change that would make the game better for all who play it. Be BETTER than the people you perceive aren't part of the solution, or else you're simply being more of part of the problem
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@Sparks741420 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3102719#Comment_3102719
Because I think a killer should have to play a near perfect game.. I literally said I thought they should even in my initial statement which was between me and my friend who's a killer main. asking to discuss it doesnt mean i dont hold my own opinion.
And people -- myself included -- have said that they don't need to be "near perfect", anymore than survivors should have to play "near-perfect" to escape. I also referenced how much easier it was (and frankly still is, though not as much as before) to make multiple mistakes as a survivor and still end up escaping, or even 4-outing your opponent. Since you said that many responses in this thread, presumably ones that don't mirror your own are, "... a bunch of killer mains defending the new update as of right now", then that seems to speak to your not wanting an actual discussion where people might disagree with you, but an affirmation of your position.
Does my disagreement with some -- emphasis on "some" -- of what you've stated make me a "killer main" who never plays survivor then?
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Your crediblity gets tossed away when you start calling anyone who disagrees with you a "killer main".
It's clear your initial question was a loaded one -- you already had a preconceived answer to your question in mind, asked said question to get reinforcement of your opinion, and no matter what anyone says in response, whether it's well-reasoned or not, you're probably going to ignore it and label them instead, since their opinion or experience doesn't match what YOU think the correct answer should be.
That's not looking for a healthy discussion, but affirmation. There's a big difference there. One is constructive, the other is making noise for the sake of noise.
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I was playing as Demo on stream on Mother's Dwelling and wiping the floor with the survivors. Some of them were clearly part of a SWF, but there was a Cheryl that I'm almost certain was a solo. I had the match pretty much won -- 2 people dead, the third on a hook, and the Cheryl I knew was up in the main building on top on the gen, so I went up there, and she was just standing there, looking at the gen. We made eye contact, she looked resigned to being part of a 4K, and she just pointed at the gen and nodded. So, I went to kick the gen -- and got hit by a Blast Mine, lol. 🤣 When the blind wore off, she was still standing there and nodding. I was laughing so hard, I nodded back, the third person finished dying on hook, and we went off in search of the hatch together. I couldn't kill something so innocent -- and hilarious.
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I'm play both sides about equally, and my survivor play is split between solo and a SWF group, for reference.
The problem pre-patch was that, if you were playing killer at a high skill level against survivors who were also at a high skill level, all it took a lot of the time was one single mistake -- taking the wrong chase for a little too long, or whiffing on what could have been a crucial down, for example -- and that was enough to cost you the match. Whereas the survivors you were up against could make multiple mistakes -- get outplayed at a loop, or three-gen themselves, or simply go down too easily in a chase -- and 4-person escapes on their part were still possible, and often achievable. The idea, in theory, would be that BOTH sides would need to play "near perfectly" to achieve the optimal result -- either a 4K or a 4-out -- but that wasn't the case prior to the patch, IMO.
Ideally, whoever plays better -- even if it's not "near perfect" -- should come out on top in a contest, and sometimes that could be a 4K or a 4-out, even if that side of the equation could have played better than they did. The difference pre-patch to post-patch for me has been that I think BOTH sides are now getting punished for less-than-optimal gameplay and/or mistakes, where it wasn't the case before. I had rounds as killer where, due to map RNG, items (multiple BNP Commodius toolboxes), killer I was playing, etc., I felt like I was set up to lose no matter how well I played or how many mistakes the survivors made. In contrast, as survivor, I or my group had plenty of matches where I/we made multiple mistakes, the killer probably outplayed us, but we still all managed to escape (or would get 3 out with one unlucky one dead). That hasn't been the case since the update, which I think has forced myself, at least, to focus much harder as survivor than I did before (and more akin to how much I need to focus as killer when the team I'm up against is really good).
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I've seen some REALLY good plays made by survivors running it against me. Since the update, I've gotten used to no longer trying to bait it, so when someone uses it well and then makes it to a safe loop/pallet/vault, I'm actually impressed. It definitely reuires a level of skill and timing it didn't before. It's a far cry from the "I completely got outplayed at that tile, but I'll hit 'E' and fix that mistake" the perk used to be.
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Random maps sometimes don't feel "random". I got Lery's a ridiculous number of times yesterday, both as survivor and killer, with no offerings in play.
I used to work in a casino, so I know about odds, and I still saw things defy them regularly, so maybe you were just very unlucky. I was doing an Oni daily -- I'm a baby Oni on console just trying to learn how to land his dash -- and my first attempt at his daily was on Lery's, so I feel your Blight pain, lol.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3100209#Comment_3100209
It was an example, sorry that you got so offended by it.
Kinda late on the devs not listening to the forums, since most nerfs happened because of the whining that was happening before on the forums.
If I seemed offended, it's because people who ignore actual important science -- like the acknowledgement of the Earth being a sphere -- are dangerous in the vital, bigger picture of how the world operates. That's such a far cry in importance from whether or not playing survivor in a video game is harder now or not that, I'm sorry if it offended you, but it deserves to be called out. There's nothing personal intended towards you with that, just that comparison.
And I don't know if the devs listen to ANYONE. Their Fog Whisperers have suggested changes to make the game better for years, and it's debatable if any of their feedback ever gets or has gotten beyond the discussion stage.
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@LDominating said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3098777#Comment_3098777
Bro shut up,your nose's reaching the edge of universe from all this lying.
THERE'S no SURVIVOR here or in the game that says the update is good,only killers that are forced to play survivor because their queque are 15 or more minutes.
I play a LOT of survivor, almost 50/50. My games, especially as a solo, have been harder, but not unwinnable -- and if they have been, it's more often than not because someone on the team is purposefully sandbagging or outright throwing by DC'ing immediately or suiciding on 1st hook. I'm still having fun. (This is the part where you tell me "You never play survivor -- you're lying!" :rollseyes:).
@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3100153#Comment_3100153
If someone tells me the earth is flat I'm disagreeing because it's obviously not true.
Let's see -- one is a proven, scientific fact about the nature of the universe, while the other consists of anecdotal experiences by people in a VIDEO GAME that may differ, depending on a number of random factors and vairables.
So someone disagreeing with YOUR experiences because someone else's may be different is akin to their calling the earth flat. That's exactly the type of ridiculous hyperbole nonsense that makes me hope the developers go their own way and ignore 95% of the noise that comes from this forum, since that's exactly what it is -- mindless noise.
ETA: I've gone on record in other threads saying I have issues with some of the changes -- the DS stun time for one was completely unnecessary, for example, and that should be reverted -- but some of the overreactions people have made so far have been exactly that. The idea for the changes was to shake up the game, and in that, it has.
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For context, as survivor, I never ran Dead Hard (except for that one Tome challenge). I had always been a SB/Lithe user, and then I switched to Overcome, which is my current exhaustion perk of choice.
Playing killer, nothing was more frustrating that clearly outplaying someone at a tile, watching them hit "E" to suddenly erase thst mistake, then watching them extend a chase for God knows how long after they made a pallet or vault, then another safe tile they had no business making in the first place. And then, watching someone else do it again later in the match. And you had to play as if everyone was running it, even on the rare instances when they weren't (I'd see DH on 2-3 players every match, if not all 4, on the regular). It was poorly designed, it rarely rewarded actual skill, and it was game-changing in so many instances.
Now, it's refreshing to see other Exhaustion perks -- so many of which are powerful but more balanced -- seeing usage. It's not just SB players, but I've seen survivors making great use of Lithe and Balanced (the latter is always a surprise -- it went from almost never used unless someone specifcally used a map for it, and usually for a Tome challenge to now actually something I've seen played well), and Overcome (usually paired with Lucky Break, a potentially deadly combo, especially on certain maps). And when I see Dead Hard actually used now effectively, I'm actually impressed, since the person who DOES use it to avoid going down and makes it to something safe to extend a chase is legitimately making a very skilled play in comparison to how the perk worked before.
A lot of players who used the perk as a "Get out of jail free card" at loops are having to adjust to the change, and as been evident, a lot of them are not adjusting well at all.
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I stopped running Ruin in favor of other gen perks well BEFORE this update. Totem spawns, with the exception of a very few number of maps, are absolutely awful, and experienced survivors even know the "tough" ones at this point. Too often, someone spwans literally in front of one (I've lost count the number of times I've spawned in front of one as a survivor and legitimately felt bad for the killer), and it's hard to get value out of a perk that lasts a minute or less in far more games than it lasts to the mid/endgame.
With the nerf to it's current state? A waste of a perk slot. If the devs wanted to put the final nail in the coffin of Ruin to make sure no one ran it (unless, literally, it's all you had to work with), then job well-done.
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I posted this in another thread:
Before the update had hit, I'd compiled a list of 250+ survivor matches I played, both as part of a SWF of different sizes and as a solo. My escape rate across all types of matches was in the 60% ballpark, with there not being a huge difference between my solo games and SWF ones (they were pretty much identical, surprisingly enough).
Since the update, I haven't kept those detailed records off all my survivor matches(I honestly should have), but I HAVE kept a tally of my solo games. My escape rate in those matches has been a nice, solid 50% (11 escapes in 22 matches). In 15 of those 22, all 5 gens were completed, and in 2 of those that I died that the gens were all finished, I made stupid mistakes in EGC that cost me what should have been 2 more escapes (which would have left me with a 59% escape rate, right around what I was averaging before the update).
Survivor play has definitely been more challenging, but not anywhere near impossible, even solo. There have been a LOT of matches where really bad plays by my random teammates resulted in the loss, where someone DC'ing early for no reason put the team at a huge disadvantage, or a couple where I just played poorly and paid for it. Two of the losses in those solos came against a bugged and currently killswitched Clown, so that may have played a part in those games going the way they did as well.
My experiences only -- obviously, others may vary.
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Before the update had hit, I'd compiled a list of 250+ survivor matches I played, both as part of a SWF of different sizes and as a solo. My escape rate across all types of matches was in the 60% ballpark, with there not being a huge difference between my solo games and SWF ones.
Since the update, I haven't kept those records (I honestly should have). I HAVE kept a closer look at my solo games, however, and my escape rate in those matches has been a nice, solid 50% (11 escapes in 22 matches). In 15 of those 22, all 5 gens were completed, and in 2 of those that I died that the gens were all finished, I made stupid mistakes in EGC that cost me what should have been 2 more escapes (which would have left me with a 59% escape rate, right around what I was averaging before the update). Playing SWF, the matches have gone about the same -- right around a 50% escaoe rate overall (last night's matches as a 2-person SWF were 3 out of 8 escapes, but 2 of those were matches that our random teammates threw and could easily have been escapes, while 1 was a Plague that caught everyone off guard with Devour, even though we still managed all 5 gens getting done).
Survivor play has definitely been more challenging, but not anywhere near impossible. There have been a LOT of matches where really bad plays by random teammates have resulted in a loss, where someone DC'ing early for no reason has put the team at a huge disadvantage, or a handful where I've just played poorly and paid for it. Two of the losses in solo came against a bugged and currently killswitched Clown, so that may have played a part in those games going the way they did as well.
My experiences only -- obviously, others may vary.
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@Dunkinspunkin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090845#Comment_3090845
Exactly. I also think nurse needs to be nerfed. I just reject the logic that Supa's streak is justification for it. He's on another plane.
I misunderstood an earlier post of yours then. My apologies.
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ETA: Misunderstood post. My apologies.
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@Dunkinspunkin said:
Why do you think this matters
I assume it matters because a bunch of people are giving their own experiences as solo survivor -- or survivor in general -- because this forum, presumably, is for people giving feedback on the gameplay.
The forum is littered with people claiming survivor is completely unplayable or that they're losing every single match they queue up in. When other people share experiences that are different than that, it matters as much as the people sharing their bad ones.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090923#Comment_3090923
I use clown a lot. Never even noticed anything weird with him. Interesting.
I play Clown infrequently, but I did play him on stream since the update once. I rarely use the yellow bottles (I'm a learning Clown, lol), but in this match, giving the last survivor hatch, I did use my yellow bottles to move around the map quicker, and the haste icon did vanish after the effect should have ended. I THINK I was moving at regular speed again after that, but it wasn't for long (we were near the hatch), so I can't be 100% sure. Maybe it's a bug that was only occuring off and on and not every time, if that was the issue? I'd love if BHVR was more clear as to what was happening, since with Clown being killswitched, it's not like anyone can take advantage of it now.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Isn't it because his hast bottles give him infinite haste? Glad he's killswitched
Yikes -- if that's what the issue was, then that would explain a LOT about the last two Clowns I went up against. 😯
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I played against multiple Clowns in the last two days who seemed way more effective than normal. I guess that's the explanation, lol.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090845#Comment_3090845
The problem with that argument is that dead hard was also trash on the hands of bad players, they would just dead hard against walls, trees etc. But on the hand of good players it was too much.
That's the issue with nurse.
You didn't actually address my exact three points -- and the three poitns I made, none of which did I reference Dead Hard or its nerf in -- so .... ? :confused face:
I made three statements that should be pretty easy to either agree with or to disagree with and politely explain why you believe they're inaccurate. If you want to talk about Dead Hard, there's numerous other threads where that can be discussed.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090764#Comment_3090764
Sorry I stopped reading when your argument was that she has the lowest kill rate in the world.
Of course you did, lol. When you don't want to have a serious discussion, saying things like that is an easy way to concede that point. 👍️
In fact, she does have the lowest kill rate -- the devs have confirmed this. If playing against a Nurse is impossible to win against every Nurse player, her kill rates would surely be higher. They're not because most people can't play Nurse well, if at all, and the Supaalf's in the game -- much like the survivor with the 300 and 500+ escape streaks I mentioned above -- are the exception, not the rule.
Again, if it helps you to avoid that pesky "reading", here are my positions:
1) It's a hell of an achievement by one of the best players in the world
2) It's not something just anyone can do, since Nurse is the hardest killer on the roster to master
3) Using Supaalf as the barometer for how something should be balanced in the game is foolish, since balancing anything around the top 0.1% of anything is ill-advised.
Again, I'd like to hear what part of those 3 points you disagree with.
ETA: You've also ignored how I'm in agreement that some things -- specifcally Omega Blink Nurse currently in the game -- need to be looked at and addressed. But anything that doesn't fit the clean narrative someone wants to preach can be ignored, I guess.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090749#Comment_3090749
SupaAlf goes against survivors that are, at least, 80% equal to him in skill. They never win, though, over the course of 300 games. If a basketball player is 80% equal in skill to Michael Jordan, he's going to win --on occasion --, whether it's because he can shoot threes well or he has a size advantage that he learns to use more effectively over the course of time.
In any other multiplayer game -- the most useful comparison -- the best player doesn't win 300 out of 300 matches. Not even close. For all the talk that SWF breaks the game, so does killer. Bring the best add-ons and perks, the best killers, and hold camping and tunneling in your back pocket and you overwhelm the survivors. Pro Vengeance is a perfect example and he doesn't even play the top killers.
That 80% number seems very arbitrary. I'd love to see the math behind it.
There's a streamer named WimaTV who Otz talked about in a video. They managed to escape in over 300+ matches in a row as a survivor. As Otz pointed out, they were sweaty (arguably like Alf is) -- using every resource, playing with other good players (who presumably sacrificed themselves so he could escape) -- but at the end of the day, he managed more than 300+ escapes, the equivalent of what Suppalf did. (he only lost the streak when someone streamsniped him and Moried him before the Mori change).
But wait -- that shouldn't count! He was in a SWF, he used keys and got out through hatch! Not the same thing!
Correct. So after the criticisms of using keys to escape some of those matches (this was before the hatch rework), he went back and did it again, without using keys, and made it to a mind-numbing 500 escapes in a row!
Otz talks about it in the video below -- apparently, he and his friends were so tired of constant escaping, that he stopped counting at the 500 win streak mark and he technically never lost it.
Let's hope the devs, while they're looking at Nurse, not only don't use Supaalf to determine what needs to be changed or not, but when they balance survivor play, let's all agree to pray they don't look at WimaTV and his survivor escape streak either. (Clearly, this isn't the typical "survivor" player, but neither is Supaalf the typical "Nurse" player -- they're both part of the best of the best, and their streaks aren't typical of anything, but remarkable feats accomlplished by determined, great players that are far better at the game than anyone in this thread posting about it are).
Otz talks about the two monster escape streaks (and mentions a streak Ayrun had at 96 and a Russian player named Hellhound who was at 130+ escapes) starting at the 9:38 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZlO-7fgJt4&ab_channel=notOtzdarva -
@Dead_Harder said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090758#Comment_3090758
Yeah but like how many high school teams could Barcelona beat at the same time. And like could the high school kids stack up on each other at the goal post to make a Voltron keeper or is that not allowed?
These are important topics that need to be explored deeply for the balance of DBD
I'd legitmately pay money to see that, lol.
It reminds me of a video on YouTube where a former NBA player -- who is retired and was essentially a journeyman when he played (12 man on the bench who averaged less than a point a game in his career, if I remember correctly) -- was challenged to 1 on 1 games (and in some cases multiple people v. 1 games) for YouTube content. Some of those players were half his age, some played college or semi-pro ball, some were more "regular" guys who played in local league. He destroyed each and every one of them, because people don't understand how the skill curve works when you're talking about the very best of the best at anything. It was pretty funny to watch, and humbling to the people who thought he was an "easy" mark because of how "little" he accomplished in the NBA (which making a roster at all is an impressive feat).
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090713#Comment_3090713
Quote me where I said it was easy. Do it, I'll wait.
I'm trash at nurse that doesnt mean she isnt a good killer.
Quote me where I said anyplace in this thread that she's "wasn't a good killer". Do it, I'll wait. Or quote me where I said that Nurse is completely fine the way she is -- I'll wait some more. I can help you and quote myself from a few posts above where I specifcally mention that current Omega Blink Nurse is an issue if that helps.
You said, "The amount of people on this thread saying this is completely fine ....... yikes". The clear implication is that anyone who thinks that arguably the very best player in the world at Nurse, who's put in thousands of hours into a killer that has the lowest kill rate of anyone, accomlished something impressive, and that it's not something that's easily done by anyone who plays the game, is somehow way off base.
My only positions are that: A -- it's a hell of an achievement by one of the best players in the world, B -- it's not something just anyone can do, since Nurse is the hardest killer on the roster to master, and C -- using Supaalf as the barometer for how something should be balanced in the game is foolish, since balancing anything around the top 0.1% of anything is ill-advised.
If you want to debate those three points, I'm game.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090667#Comment_3090667
DBD happens to be the only multiplayer game where one can side win 300 matches in a row. You don't think he goes up against skillful survivors? They don't have to be as equally skilled to at least win on occasion over the course of 300 matches. The fact that they do not win once in 300 games means they cannot win and that's more than just skill.
Listen to what you said -- "They don't have to be as equally skilled to at least win on occasion".
So, by that logic, you're not as skilled as Michael Jordan in basketball -- at least, I'll presume that (even at his current age). Challenge him to some 1 on 1. If you played him 300 games in a row 1 on 1, by that logic, you wouldn't need to be as skilled as him -- you should still be able to "win" on occasion, right?
He's winning because he's that much better at what he's doing -- playing Nurse -- than the people he's playing with. He's had matches during that streak where he almost lost and had to sweat to pull out the games. His streak will end when he faces a team that is equal to his skill or better, which as good as he is at Nurse (which is pretty much all he plays), will take a while, since the vast majority of players who play this game aren't at his level.
Do I think Nurse can be overpowered? In the right hands, yes -- but the vast majority of Nurses I go against aren't. Should there be some sort of tweaks made to her (like removing the Omega Blink Nurse currently in play)? Sure. Are any of those things relevant to what the best player in the world is doing? Absolutely not, because if we balance around the top 0.1%, then that's completely illogical.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3090524#Comment_3090524
Makes you wonder how people of the past have managed to complete the power moves achievment, ie escape 8 trials without any perks equipped while finishing at least one full gen. I guess all the poor sods grinded 25+ games per pip in this achievment, cursing every moment of their miserable DH and IW deprived existence ... not me, though. I always thought that I was made to be a killer main, but apparently I am secretly a Survivor soloQ god and never noticed!!1 Got that power moves achievment done on two casual afternoons.
I got mine on a stream when I was doing the Adept survivors I was missing. I have people redeeming channel points all the time for perkless survivor rounds, or No Mither survivor rounds, and my escape rate for those has always been pretty solid. I guess I'm a lot better than I thought at survivor too, lol.
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@Marigoria said:
The amount of people on this thread saying this is completely fine ....... yikes
If you don't understand the difference between the very best person in the world accomplishing something, and what the other 99.9% of the people in the world are capable of doing at that same thing ... yikes in return.
Since what he did is so easy, please put together your own 300+ win streak on her for us. As someone who struggles badly whenever I actually decide to play Nurse (which is rare -- on console, she's much harder), I'm all for learning from people -- presumably yourself -- who can show me how to make her so easy to play.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
I miss Robin Williams he was an amazing actor and just an awesome guy
Hear, hear.
I saw a quote of his recently: “I think the saddest people always try their hardest to make people happy. Because they know what it feels like to feel absolutely worthless and they don’t want anybody else to feel like that."
Another quote I saw attributed to him: “Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. Be kind. Always.”
Words to live by.
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So, arguably the best player in the entire WORLD at Nurse hit a 300 win streak, so therefore Nurse is "easy" -- is that what some people are actually claiming here?
Playing guitar at a high level is incredibly "easy" -- just look at Jimi Hendrix!
Playing pro basketball at a high level is "easy" -- just look at Michael Jordan!
Understanding physics at a jigh level is "easy" -- just look at Albert Einstein!
Creating works of great art is "easy" -- just look at Leonardo Da Vinci!
And so on Using the very best person at something to make a point about that something in general is a very poor, lazy, and inaccurate way to make that point.
Congrats to Supaalf on his streak. The amount of hours he's put in to learning Nurse and his dedication to being that good is admirable. If I played another three years and played Nurse full-time, I'd be lucky to get a fraction of that number total, since I -- like the larger number of people who play her -- are nowhere near his skill level. Kudos to the man.
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A voice of positivity in what's too often a pool of negativity. I love it. Kudos.
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@lauraa said:
id run ebony moris every game if i could. they are neat but there are clear benefits to running them.
Catching a downed death hook survivor has a 0% chance of survival. Pallets are useless, no bodyblocking and no kind of shenanigan like a double locker save can be attempted.
Not depleting your finite amount of non-basement hooks shouldn't be discounted either. Very useful on levels such as Midwich with questionable hooks, as well as help managing survivors carrying Boil Over, Power Struggle or Flip Flop. Gives you the option of using a Scourge Hook perk or saving them which is useful.
Lastly there's the psychological component to it. It's like an open declaration of war.
Good point on Midwich. Something has been very wrong with the hook spawns there for a while, even before the additonal lockers for he Dredge were a thing.
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The Mori is getting reworked anyway, and I have my fingers crossed that they'll be a BP compensation for the ones players have in their inventories.
I rarely ran a Mori before their nerf -- only for dailies and for the occasional key user. I can count the number of times I've run one since on one hand, with fingers left over. They're not oppressive -- they're not worth using, other than to maybe dodge a DS or a flashlight save on death hook, and that's so situational, there's no point to them anymore.
If I had to take a guess, the Mori rework is because the devs saw how often Moris were run prior to their nerf, and that the numbers you see them run now are a very tiny fraction of what they were (and why have people in your team work on neat Mori animations for each killer when, aside from the 5-stack Devour, no one is ever going to see them?). When the killer brings a Mori in my survivor matches now, it's akin to seeing Bigfoot or a UFO. There used to be that moment of "uh, oh" when you realized the killer had one during the loading screen. Now, it's more like "meh".
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088418#Comment_3088418
People are blowing it out of proportion a little. I've seen way less tunneling. I've been escaping as much as I die. Maybe escaping more because people probably feel less pressured to tunnel and camp.
Some changes are undeniably too strong though. The chase changes are enough. That gen speeds need to be 80 seconds. DS stun needs to go back to 5 seconds. Or trigger both hook states if it stays at 3 seconds. STBFL needs adjusted to compensate for the chase changes.
I main killer. I stream killer. I have a 100 % kill rate since the changes. That shouldn't be. Even if I was the top 1 % players of DBD
I play 50/50. I have a lot of success at both roles (attaining Rank 1 at both before the changes to the rank system). I have a LOT of hours in the game. All of this stated simply for context.
I agree completely that there are things that were unnecessary changes. The DS stun should be reverted, as it's almost useless now (or, I like the idea of it working twice if it stayed at 3 seconds). Gens in my game still go, but maybe 85 seconds would be a good compromise instead. STBFL was strong before, so I'm ambivalent about how much stronger than extra 10% is.
There are other head-scratchers -- the Self-Care change was pointless, Ruin is a joke, and a few others -- but overall, I liked the direction of the patch. Chases and your efficiency in them are more important than ever, mistakes on both ends are more punishing, and gen-kicking actually matters now. It's different, and I think some people have either been slow -- or unwilling -- to adapt.
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@Sluzzy said:
Why would you play survivor knowing it is that badly imbalanced? I genuinely would like to know.
Because, since I started playing exclusively solo survivor matches two days ago to see how "impossible" it was, I've escaped in 50% of my matches now (8 of 16 -- should have been 10, but I made bone-headed plays that cost me in the Endgame in two matches I died in, but my teammates lived). Imbalanced isn't what I'd call it at all (my last solo escape was against a Huntress that got 5 hooks in 6 minutes on Red Forest/Temple -- not exactly a bad number -- and still saw us get all the gens done in those 6 minutes and 4-out her anyway -- one of my teammates had Kindred, so I'm guessing I wasn't even the only solo in the lobby).
Survivor play has been more challenging since the update, but I've adapted (which wasn't as hard, since other than DS, none of the nerfed perks -- IW, DH -- were in my build anyway), but I haven't noticed a dramatic difference in the gameplay from before, and I've easily played double-digit hours as survivor since the patch. Gens are still getting done, survivors are still escaping (not always, but in a balanced enough fashion), and mistakes by either the survivors or the killers are getting punished harder now (which is the way it should be).
Knowing your propensity to always claim that playing survivor is too difficult (even before this update), I'm not surprised by your take -- but if you wanted a genuine answer, there it is. There are plenty of people adjusting and doing okay. You're supposed to be good, from what others have said -- while I consider myself only "decent" as a survivor. If I can do it, surely you could too?
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@rvzrvzrvz said:
I don't mind dying every match if I'm having fun but honestly they need to increase survivor BP gains, someone here said x1,5 for all score events and I agree, it feels unrewarding
Survivor BP gains should have been adjusted a long time ago, but unfortunately the devs haven't made any indication that they seem to think that they're unbalanced compared to the killer side. It's something that definitely should be tweaked.
The removal of the BP bonus from WGLF didn't help either, and it (along with the removal from BBQ), was completely unnecessary and one of the misfires of this update.
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@aarontendo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088045#Comment_3088045
Majority of people posting seem to be struggling. Maybe you should consider you're in the minority.
I think that some people are struggling because they're not adjusting, some are struggling because they were legitimately boosted by certain perks that were nerfed, and a lot of people are adjusting -- but they're not the people who're posting here. As a rule, people who are unhappy -- even if they're in the minority -- are going to yell the loudest about something.
These forums have NEVER been a good representation of the player base as a whole. 90% of what gets posted here -- and that goes for things that people who play killer primarily, as well as survivor, complain about -- tends to be nothing but noise. There are some valid discussions to be had about this patch -- as I said, there were things that were changed that were ill-advised -- but the "OMG Survivor Is Impossible Everyone Dies At 5 Gens!" posting (or something thereabouts) that is more common now is as much of an overreaction as were the "OMG Killer Is Unplayable I Haven't Killed A Single Survivor In 50 Matches!" type of posting we'd see before the update.
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@aarontendo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/336553/am-i-the-only-survivor-who-likes-this-patch
18 killers up voted this lol. Survivors hate it because instead of killers averaging 2k its like 3.5k now. Gens are boring and are awful for points when compared to secondary objectives and so the player base won't do it. So..gg?
That's narrow-minded thinking. I play a lot of survivor, probably 50/50, and like a lot of people, while I think there were things that the devs got wrong in this update (DS change for one), overall, I like the shake-up it's provided, and my survivor rounds are more challenging, but not impossible to win. Not everyone is sharing your opinion who plays survivor.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
What does it do? It is my next challenge. I thought it just debuffed you?
There's visual effects on the screen, as well as auditory effects as well, until you've hooked the 6 survivors in the match you're playing it in, then which it goes away.
I found it annoying, distracting, and mildly uncomfortable to have going on when I did the challenge, and I can see how it could cause worse issues with other people.
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My own experiences as solo over the last two days were 6 escapes in 14 matches as a solo, 3 out of 6 yesterday -- which would have been 5 out of 6 if I hadn't been careless in the Endgame in one match, and if teammates had been working on an exit gate sooner in another. All 5 gens were done in nearly everyone of those matches (out of the 6 yesterday, only 1 were all the gens NOT finished).
If you're escaping only once in 28 games -- I'm not sure what to tell you. I consider myself a good player, but not a great survivor by any stretch. I haven't found survivor, or solo survivor, unplayable at all since the update. Tougher overall, but not impossible to win, at least for me.
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@Canas said:
A quick preface: the killers are sorted by their name to keep track of who was used the most often.
As you can see Nurse was especially popular. Of these 20 matches which were played I only was able to escape 25% of the time. I'd like to mention that I had a 50% escape-rate as a Solo Q player before this patch. And no, I didn't rely on Dead Hard or anything like that.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FGELKKPKE3JB/solo-queue-catastrophe.png
Most of the time survivors were either throwing the game (hardly getting more than one gen done) or the killer was playing dirty from the very first moment. Camping and tunneling were especially rampant, even on high tier killers like Nurse and Spirit.
The quality of matches has drastically plummeted since the new patch, matchmaking doesn't seem to adapt either. I keep dying which keeps lowering my MMR, the result are even weaker teammates who will blatantly suicide if things don't go their way. The killers however hardly seem to change in behavior either, the experience remains unchanged.
Thanks for compiling your experiences -- anytime someone puts the effort into doing so, it's appreicated.
I played 8 solo games yesterday, 6 today (today's matches were streamed, and multiple ones yesterday were recorded, before any jumps in to question the results). Out of those 14, I had 6 escapes -- 3 yesterday out of 8, and 3 today out of 6. In the past, when I compiled data over 250+ matches, my solo escape rate was between 55-60%, so this is a little lower, though my being smarter would have gotten me at least one more escape today, and these numbers are a smaller sample size than what I had compiled prior.
I played against 5 Huntresses, 2 Blights, a Dredge, a Trickster, a Demo pup, a Clown, and some others I can't remember offhand.
All 5 gens were completed in the majority of those matches -- 5 out of 6 today, and either 5 or 6 out of 8 yesterday. In two of the matches I died today, one was 100% stupidity on my part (I was exposed with MYC during Endgame and got caught out by an exit gate when I should have been more mindful of the exposed timer), and another was questionable teammate decisions (The Dredge had NWO, and despite running the killer back and forth between the two exit gates on Garden of Joy, none of my three teammates bothered to work on a door after NWO deactivated, for whatever reason.
There were a handful of 2-3 person escapes in those matches, and even a four-out or two. The killer tunnelled in a couple of the matches (one of my deaths yesterday was against a Clown that got 3 hooks the entire match, all on me, but everyone else got out).
Overall, quality of my teammates varied. In at least one of the games yesterday where gens didn't get done, someone rage-quit when they were downed first, saboing our entire team. My last match today -- a 3-out against a Huntress, the other Meg suicided on their 2nd hook as I started to move to save them -- despite that, we got all of the gens done (she did that at 3 gens left) and it was a solid enough match.
My thoughts playing survivor -- both since the update as part of my regular group I SWF with, as well as playing solo, is that lasting longer in chase, playing loops better, and being more efficient and playing smart, are more important than ever. Making mistakes are going to get you punished more than ever before (which making mistakes, either as killer or survivor, SHOULD have some consequence to them).
That's only my experiences -- other people are sharing different ones, and yours may vary. The story of what's playing out is a total of everyone's tales, not just a handful of people.
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@Gladonos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3086238#Comment_3086238
Then why were you being aggressive with me?
You replied to me first. You accused me of "shifting the goalposts", which I wasn't. I simply restated what was obviously there in my first post, and asked what was inaccurate or wrong about it in your opinion.
If that came across as "aggressive", that wasn't the intent.
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@Gladonos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3086210#Comment_3086210
I don't even disagree with that. Can we both agree that people are just being childish ######### and that there is no conspiracy to inflate kill rates?
Since that's what I actually essentially said in my initial post, then you could consider that agreement.
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@Gladonos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3086192#Comment_3086192
Stop shifting the goalpost. The topic is whether it's being done to inflate kill rates.
You're the one moving the goalposts. I simply said that childish rage-quitting for ANY reason has been going on in this game when people don't get their way since BEFORE the update. I also clearly stated that there's no conspiracy (to do anything of the sort) -- that it's childish people doing those things because they're selfish and they're not thinking of anyone else but themselves, and that I've personally seen people DC'ing in games I've played thst have ruined it for myself or others.
What part of THAT would you like to take issue with?
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@Huge_Bush said:
This is falling on deaf ears. People who go out of their way to ruin others experience are just throwing a tantrum, exposing themselves as spoiled brats who can't handle any kind of adversity in life. They will not change until something major happens to them that forces them to reflect on their sorry lives and poor behavior.
Absolutely. This is no new phenomenon. From killers who'd purposefully AFK, to survivors who'd DC the minute they realized it was a Nurse/Spirit/Blight, to rage-quitters for whatever reason they justify their actions with, people have been doing it well before this update, and it's always been sad behavior.
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@Gladonos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3086157#Comment_3086157
Yes, they are DCing, they are giving up instantly, they are afk dying on hook. No ######### shirlock. These are the consequences of being overpowered. Turns out the people you are playing against are real people. What they are not doing is conspiring by dying to inflate kill rates.
No conspiracy needed -- it's just examples of children throwing tantrums and ruining the experiencing of others because they value THEIR experience over everyone else's. It's a classic selfish mentality that's been present in the game well before this update -- how many times have we heard someone say they'll DC because of [insert killer/map/gen rushing survivors/etc here] on these same forums well before this update hit?
I've had plenty of games BEFORE this update, both as survivor playing as duo or as killer, ruined by tantrum-throwers who DC or kill themselves on hook. In the handful of survivor games I played yesterday -- 8 in total -- only in two did we not get all 5 gens powered, and one was because someone rage-quit when they were the first one downed. Two killer rounds this morning, and someone rage-quit in a match their team could have won (despite no camping, tunneling, or anything out of the ordinary on my part), completely sandbagging their team in the process.
If people don't like this game, nothing has changed from before this update as to what to do -- there's a simple solution to their problem. DON'T PLAY THE GAME. If you do decide to hit the ready button, then accept those consequences and STOP thinking you're more important than the other 4 people in your game.
You'd think that level of maturity wouldn't be asking for a lot, even in an online video game -- but as life imitates art, apparently, a lot of people aren't capable of it.
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My go-to-build for her has been:
1) Corrupt Intervention -- Even with its "nerf", this is still a good perk for her. You ideally want to get a down and a trap on someone before the 1st gen pops. Even with the change, Corrupt delays survivors from starting on a gen (unless survivor spawns are wacky), giving you extra time to find someone and down them.
2) Call of Brine -- I thought people were sleeping on this perk before the recent update, but I've seen it getting a lot more love now. It's quick regression you can control, and it's really strong in a 3-gen scenario
3) Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance -- 15% off of the gen with the most work, with the downside that if RNG is unkind, you might not get much usage out of it. If you can, then getting constant downs on these hooks means that, while people are trying to get traps off, you'll be wrecking any gen progress the survivors have, giving you potentially huge mid-game slowdown. If you aren't able to use the Scourge hooks, then COB will be the back-up
4) Hex: Plaything -- This is one of the only Hex perks worth still running. Having survivors with traps Oblivious until their totem is cleansed is potentially huge -- I've lost count of the number of people with traps on their heads that I've run into while chasing someone else (either because they were sitting on a Jigsaw box, or they simply ran into me) and gotten an easy down. If survivors have an active trap when unhooked, they don't really have the time to try and find their totem, and if they do, they're going to run the risk of a head pop if they're unlucky.
For add-ons, I either run the Crate of Gears or the Bag of Gears (to lengthen the box searches) and the Face Mask (which is a yellow add-on, and you should be able to get those in the bloodweb pretty easily). The Face Mask blocks all auras, so the person with the Plaything totem won't be able to see its aura as long as their trap is on, pretty much forcing them to stay Oblivious for long portions of the match.
There are a lot of builds you could run, but that's what's been working for me, and it was doing so before the update as well.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3085351#Comment_3085351
I logged in to simply test it, in North America (large population), the killer queues in 15+ mins. Survivor queues instant.
People here are learning not to play an unwinnable, unplayable game mode.
Disingenuous as always, I see.
Streaming on Thursday night and off-stream recording matches last night, my killer queues weren't instant like they always were before, but the time I waited was around the 2 1/2 minute mark, give or take. Last night, as it got later in the evening, my queue times pushed back to under a minute again -- not instant, but at no point since the update have I seen 15+ minute queues.
I know mornings have always had longer killer queues and quicker survivor ones, so since you said you "logged in to simply test it", I did the same. Two matches just now, and I timed both waits with my phone.
4 1/2 minutes for both of those matches, give or take a couple of seconds. Not anywhere close to 15. And I live in North America too -- shocking, I know.
For the record, I recorded the 2nd match, including the lobby wait time from the moment I hit ready, so I actually have video proof of said wait time (the video wouldn't prove the time of day, but the lobby time easily could be verified, as I'm talking non-stop about the update during it, and it would obviously not be an edit of any type to make it look shorter).
I play the game 25-30 hours a week, split between both roles, for two years now. Before the update and since the update, I have never seen a 15 minute killer queue (but I HAVE seen survivor queues approaching that number, though not since crossplay was introduced and not since the update, obviously). NEVER. I'm almost 100% sure 5 minutes or so has been the MAX over that time. If you live in a different part of the world, I'll grant that you might have longer times than I do, but if you're claiming 15+ killer queues for you today in the same general region as I am when I literally loaded up after you posted this and got games in consistent times that aren't close to your claims, then I'm calling BS.
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I'm not a "survivor" player -- I try to split up my playtime as evenly as I can with both roles. I liked more about this patch than I disliked.
That's not to say that I'm 100% with every change that was made. The nerf to DS was unwarranted, some of the changes they made to perks made no sense in the bigger picture (Self-care and Ruin are worthless now, for example), etc. But overall, there was more good than people are giving credit for in this update.
I never ran Dead Hard and rarely Iron Will, so I hardly notice a difference in my matches from my own end so far as survivor goes. I've been running Overcome since it came out (I thought it was underrated), and I also think Lucky Break works fantastic with it (I thought LB was an underrated perk BEFORE this update, and I don't know why more people didn't run it anyway).
There are sure to be some changes to these changes at some point -- the update was far from perfect -- but the people who act like it's the end of the world are people who aren't even trying to adapt to the new gameplay (which seems to have focused on longer matches with chases -- and how you do in them from either side -- more important than ever before, especially with DH getting sent to the trash heap).
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@PBsamichShoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083791#Comment_3083791
You could argue that a lot of survivor players were being carried by perks or swf but then you wouldnt be taking into account the base kit buffs to killers like longer gen speeds, faster cooldowns on m1 and pallet breaking, faster activation of bloodlust, and decreased distance for survivors after being hit.
Did you read what I posted? I literally said in that same paragraph that the reverse could happen now (killer players getting carried by the current status quo to a level not equal to their skill level).
It's almost as if people on this board hear what they want to hear and filter everything else out.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083725#Comment_3083725
One of the other threads, someone posted data from an unofficial aggregate site with numbers from the month prior to the patch and numbers from the current month included this week. Parsing it out gives an estimated kill rate for the post patch days.
P.S. Found the post
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081839#Comment_3081839
That's interesting data, if accurate.
I always thought that as the skill level of the players involved got better, the game tilted more to the survivor side (i.e. if all players are beginners, the killer is likely dominating, whereas at high levels of play with coordinated teams/SWF's/outstanding solos, the survivors were likely dominating more often than not). With killers presumably doing very well at lower levels of play (and potentially having kill rates far higher than that 49% rate at those lower levels, leaving higher levels of play with even lower kill rates), it's understandable why changes were made if that kill rate WAS less than 50% across the board. The percentage you stated that might represent post-update numbers would seem higher than would be preferable, but I would be curious how that's being accrued across different MMR levels (i.e. are the "better' players having less trouble than their less "skilled" counterparts at survivor, and vice-versa for killer players?).
For the record, while I thought the game tilted in survivor players' favor prior to this update, I probably was in the minority in thinking it wasn't as far off from being balanced as I've seen a lot of people claim the game was. As of now, it feels like that gap was definitely bridged with this update -- how much that may or may not have pushed the game into "killer-sided" range remains to be seen over longer than just a couple of days we've had to draw conclusions thus far (my survivor experience and killer experience, frankly, hasn't been too much different than what it was prior to the update, just with minor differences, though those are only my experiences with it so far).
One could argue that a lot of survivor players were being hard-carried by either SWF pairings or perks (or both) to MMR ratings their skill didn't equate to -- this update could see the reverse occur, with a lot of killer players who might have the same thing happen to them now (which, if any tweaks are made in the future, could lead to some unpleasant matchmaking on their end).