Caretaker
Caretaker
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@Visionmaker said:
I don't think DS needs to be changed for a minor edge-case. People are far exaggerating how often this happens. The argument is mindlessly parroted and the outrage is merely symbolic.
Furthermore, they are mis-characterizing successful plays. A successful play is downing multiple survivors, yes. But a successful play is also intentionally countering a perk. DS is counterable, in multiple, explicitly known ways. Downing other survivors in rapid succession is not one of its counters. If you are hit by DS, it means you did not counter it, and thus should not be rewarded with its deactivation.
Minor edge-case? Multiple survivors do this. They use DS as a get out of jail free card and make increasingly risky/stupid plays knowing fully well they basically have immunity for 60s. Also 5s stun is absurd, especially considering it was nerfed due to Enduring, but not changed back to 3-4s after Enduring's nerf.
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@Awakey said:
I may not have an amazing number of hrs, but 750 is enough for me to unfortunately realize you are right.
That's about right. Back when I started people generally agreed around 300~ with play on both sides was enough to start to understand the game. Either way, if someone is right they're right regardless of hours.
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@Jake_Parks_prince said:
They listen just not to the killer main community like you who want GG EZ 4K's.
Spotted the player who has 100 hours, only plays survivor, and thinks running pallet to pallet is difficult. Unlike you chief, I actually play both sides. I know killer is hard and you can't live without your crutches, but give it a shot bud. This thread is literally about physical pain and you come here to cry. Amazing.
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Easy fix, grabs/if a survivor is hooked while your DS is active, it gets shut off. If I had time to chase, down, and hook another survivor, I'm clearly not tunneling you. 5s stun is absurd.
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Because a coordinated team is going to rush through that single objective before even the best killer can put pressure down. Not to mention they need something else to do seeing as they refuse to do totems. It has to be something fun, and meaningful to the gameplay to incentivize both sides to encourage fun gameplay loops/giving each other chances.
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@darktrix said:
I did not read carefully enough - I have no idea what pallet campers are thinking. They pretty much are helping to kill their fellow survivors as well.
It can be, if they're stupid and not doing gens. Cuz you gotta clear out those areas to make dead zones, but if you leave and go to the opposite side you've got fresh pallets. It's a definitely balance you gotta hit.
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@miaasma said:
pallet campers just live for the 1000 stun points
the irony is that walking into a pallet is the correct play usually, but when you know someone's bad and doesn't know how to loop respecting it makes sense and denies them of points
breaking chase with these people after they eat through pallets to then chase people through the dead zones they create is always nice
@darktrix said:
Shots fired.
My theory - after hundreds of hours sitting behind a gen, seeing how long they can play directly with the killer is the only thrill left for them.
Then play with me. Outwit me, run that loop, try an interesting build. That I'm fine with. If someone runs a hard loop and mindgames me, cool. Ggs. The people that just spam pallet after pallet are just obnoxious.
@miaasma said:
pallet campers just live for the 1000 stun points
the irony is that walking into a pallet is the correct play usually, but when you know someone's bad and doesn't know how to loop respecting it makes sense and denies them of points
breaking chase with these people after they eat through pallets to then chase people through the dead zones they create is always nice
Yea, pretty much. I usually just respect it, but there's just no reason it should work as well as it does lol.
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@[Deleted User] said:
To be honest, I've been getting a lot of those types of survivors too. While they also run MoM, DS, Adrenaline and DH, of course.
They're also the type of people who will DC if they get downed first and fast, too.
Gives most survivor mains that aren't dumb a really bad rep.
Yea, I'm waiting for people to gloss over where I said good loopers are fine, and they're gonna go straight for REEE SURVIVOR MAINS HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS!
I got a 4 man swf that just burnt through gens and every one of them just ran to a pallet. Couple had MoM, couple had DS, quad adren, but Adren is totally fine. it's a bad perk anyway.
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@Paladin_Goo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/69380/survivor-mains
I've been getting a wave of those. Which is especially funny when you play as Spirit. They camp the pallet, you phase to the other side and smack that booty.
I really should play her more.
Surprisingly quiet.
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@KingB said:
DS is bugged though. You can hook them/be hooked before the ds registers.
Didn't know it was bugged, never run it.
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@artist said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/526803#Comment_526803
as far as i know none of that appears on the survivor's pov. some people dont track their own vaults during chase and are more focused on what the killer is doing.
There are times when you see the blocker, and it pops up and you can just go right through it. It's like the grab bug. Been around forever, they refuse to acknowledge or fix it. Though if this one is getting fixed, great.
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@Dehitay said:
I haven't played the ptb, but according to the notes, they did something about it. So hopefully, it will be fixed when the next patch comes out.
If I overlooked it in the notes, that's my bad. Here's hoping they did.
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@ClogWench said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/526791#Comment_526791
Randomly the entity blockers won't stop you from vaulting and you go right through them. Not sure if anything specifically triggers it
It's completely random, and many survivors are totally aware of it. It just randomly doesn't work. Both the 3 vault block and Bamboozle. It'll show the effect, the sound, everything but the prompt shows and you can still vault it.
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@Tru3Lemon said:
LF will get a buff in the future GF its a joke and now they are fixing it if you saw the last dev stream they aware now its a ptb they want too see the feedback but sometimes they dont listen now they do freddy rework will be good and legit never thought it will be good like that some ppl overreact of ssying that devs are just not aware of theyre own game and they do they are making most of the maps a rework killers that arent good they will make them viable and also nurse she will get a chance i do understand thst she needs a rework but the only problem on her its her own addons and thats it
Ok, they made Freddy viable, Huntress was made MORE viable, Legion is more viable, Plague was made more viable. I can keep going. They're clueless, greedy as #########, and have no clue what they're doing. The numbers are hemorrhaging, and they're running out events/ideas fast.
Also the Freddy rework that makes him a generic M1 killer with no power until you passively go to sleep after 60s, who's powers are tied to his ######### addons. Also new and more ways to wake up all while losing anything he had beneficial? Yea, really good job devs. Nerfing Freddy AGAIN cuz rank 20s struggled. Really learned their lesson.
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@BACKSTABBER said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/67199/thanks-devs
i start to believe devs are not even gamers or dedicate too little time to the game while have side part time job or smth?? and Cote seems to have no idea about the game in the streams
Mcote doesn't really play like we do. We play to have fun/challenge ourselves/win. He simply plays the game just to play. As for the devs, Idk what they do, but fixing DBD apparently isn't on the agenda.
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The only time I use Pop is on Legion, and even then it's not stellar. 25% comes out to 20s off a gen. That's assuming the gen has any progress, and that only one survivor is going to work on that gen, and/or if at all. A small tweak so it's 10-15% for a minute I don't think would be too crazy. That's 8-12s off the gens if they're smacked. Atm regression doesn't do it just starts the generator regressing and can easily be stopped by just tapping m1 and continuing the chase.
Then again I kinda expected the usual, but glad other people see why Pop is a mediocre perk that could use some love. Nothing crazy, but some tweaks to make it a perk worth running would be nice. Also, if Pop was so good, and in such a great spot, why does no one run it?
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Let's compare what Legion got/buffed to what was taken/nerfed. We're gonna combine that category.
Buffed/Given:
-115% MS
-Longer Duration
-Iri Pin is better, still bad, but technically better.
-Speed addons changed to detection range.(Speed did nothing, and these technically do something, but they're still meh and not worth a slot.)
-Duration addon buff.
Nerfed/Taken:
-Pin addons gained debuffs, but the effect will see 0 use and requires 2 hits. They're awful.
-Less FF movement speed.
-Miss an m1 lose entire power.
-Can't use power until fully charged(which m1ing actually still drains your bar, fun.)
-Slower vault speed.
-A HARSH FOV cut after fatiguing. (Not even mentioned, thanks devs.)
-CD addons nerfed.
-4s CD up from 3s.
-Frank's nerfed(Needed, but new Frank's doesn't do anything.)
-Can't down with FF.
-DW doesn't tick down in TR(Needed.)
-Loses all tracking while in FF, originally was just scratches.
-Can't moonwalk.(Needed.)
-32 TR up from 24.
-Recharge time 20s up from 15s.
TL;DR: He didn't get anything outside of some minor addon teaks/buffs, and faster general MS. Other than that they removed/nerfed most of his kit so the idea that he's somehow more unique now is just dishonest. You could play the current forced playstyle just fine before, and all they did was punish the players who played that way prior to the rework.
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@ItsYourBoyGuzma said:
@MedicSpirit7 @Caretaker that feeling when you're more interested in the next chapters perks than the killer
Tell me about it. Though I am interested in achieves and rapid fire teabagging.
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That's Ghostface.
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@ClogWench said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490933#Comment_490933
The thing is, DW wasn't designed in the first place to be a reliable means of downing someone. It was designed to be a way of forcing survivors to waste time healing. Only it was poorly designed and easily abused+people didn't know how to play him but though they did. Now he has the ability to reliably dish out more pain, and the standard speed to chase someone down after the fact. It's a relatively simple ability but then so is Clowns, Wraiths and Trappers abilities and no one complains about those being boring.
Show me trapper, clown, wraith mains then. People consistently complain about how poor those killers are. Yea you can get an ankle snap and that's nice, but that's if you play against potatoes. Clown's bottles don't do anything just ignore them and camp the pallet. Wraith? Stay on the long side of a loop and don't drop pallets early, or drop them early if he has Endfury.
They are also very basic, and in need of QOL changes. Difference is Wraith gets insane mobility, and actually decent addons. Trapper by some pure luck and good placement can get a snowball going, or a quick down. Clown, is, trash. There's nothing there. It's clown the name fits.
I'm ok with DW being changed to not draining, but the other nerfs were not necessary. The forums blew up with how angry they were about them gutting Legion. Even survivors were saying it was too much. Yet they didn't listen, cuz they'd rather cater to outcry than talk to players who know what they're talking about.
Read my original post. It makes DW have some bite, his addons very effective, and doesn't even change much about current Legion. I'd actually give him back his old numbers, vault speed + 3s fatigue, and he'd still be fine.
I don't want DW to down, it can't. Even if they're mending it can't. There's 0 reason to go down to DW. If you do, you deserve to die. It doesn't even waste that much time. If it was a good bit of time Doc would be more popular/strong cuz his time waster at least does SOMETHING. I wouldn't even say he can reliably dish out more pain. His old speed+duration made it a lot easier to get multi-hits, and you could easily catch people at 110.
Atm, Legion got literally all of his power removed to buff BT. He was trash before, and while a bit better in general now. That doesn't suddenly negate or remove the downsides that drag him down.
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@ClogWench said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490917#Comment_490917
I don't watch streamers but I do see plenty of Legions when I play survivor. Probably more than most killers. You won't be able to argue with me that people play him for reasons other than fun, especially considering he's certainly not top tier and really why would you play him then if you don't enjoy him. At most I'll agree he could use some minor tweaking like vault speed
I play him cuz I like Legion. That's all there is to it. Why do I play all killers despite not liking some of them? To learn how to play them, get some variety, and freshen up the pools. When you really break it down, new Legion isn't any different from old Legion except he's forced to play a specific way.
You can't down with DW, DW doesn't do anything, he's basically old Legion but 115 and in permanent slow-mo. That's it. Nothing changed, they just took things away. Which is why I don't get the "unique" part of new Legion.
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490924#Comment_490924
See your better than me, when Valentine's day came about I was hoping Julie and Frank would get some V-day cosmetics lol, I usually switch out the masks alot too, with Julie I have a bit more options for the torso though which I do appreciate lol
Yea, before I just stuck with the blue Xmas eyes and swapped out hoodies. I was waiting for a new knife and they announced High Vis. Granted I wish High Vis knife was the same quality as the OG Karambit Joey has, but it's still nice. I like the colors on it.There's not enough black/teal/green/blue skins.
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490921#Comment_490921
I'm an OG Legion main as well and I still play him for the exact same reason and in hopes he'll get better. Also, I need new skins for Julie. That Neon skin just for Joey was a smack to my face lol
I know right! I'm a Susie main, and all I wanted was a Neon version for her same color and everything. I just use the hoodies and mix in the mask/karambit.
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490916#Comment_490916
I respect your opinion, however I don't think those are people who find him fun, I believe those are people who are previously legion mains and still playing him because they want to and because they're highly customizable. Not because of fun.
I'm an OG Legion main. Despite how flawed he is, I'll still play him cuz there's at least a crumb of what I enjoyed about him there and he gets decent point gain. I don't want him to be an exploitable mess for sure, but as you've said this isn't my idea of a fun killer.
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@ClogWench said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490908#Comment_490908
Frankly I think he's fun and unique currently. And the fact that he still has roughly the same pick rate means there's people who agree and play him because they find him fun.
If 1% played him before, and 1% play him now, that's still a poor pick rate. How many people do you know that actually main Legion? How often do you see people streaming Legion gameplay?
That's great you find him fun and unique, you can enjoy your basic ######### killer. Unique is laughable, he's an M1 killer who sprint bursts with a broken leg. I don't like new Legion being neutered with no bite, and I actually played him when he was 110, with no addons, or any cheese. He literally is the most basic killer, who's power gets turned off the second someone is injured. You could literally play any other killer and mimic Legion gameplay.
Also, if the pick rate didn't change, that means no one else picked him up at all. It's just old players playing him.
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@ClogWench said:
Considering his pick rate and win rate are about the same I'd say it's not that Legion isn't fun, it's that those complaining about him are a loud minority.
Or the devs have poor stats, and that pick rate is absurdly low and stayed absurdly low cuz no one liked Legion and survivors refused to play against him. Also, we don't even know if those stats about pick rate/kill rate are even legit. Legion was one of the worst killers on their last stat tracking iirc.
Also, he's not fun. I've played him since release, and getting utterly neutered isn't fun. I don't get why everyone suddenly thinks Legion is ok when literally nothing changed aside from a ton of nerfs, and he got made 115. A 5% speed boost and suddenly he's fun and ok. I'm glad my main is being nerfed around people who don't play him or only just now find him fun.
Play literally any other 115 killer and congrats, you're playing Legion except now you actually have a power to use. I don't get why everyone is just blind when it comes to Legion. Absolutely 0 sense.
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@Gardenia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490879#Comment_490879
Frenzy shouldn't be depleted totally on 1 miss though, give at least 2 swings then you lose the power no more no less.
Yea, that's what I said in the original post if I remembered to add it. I know I commented about it. It should just drain the bar instead. 2-3 swings before fatigue wouldn't break the game.
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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490879#Comment_490879
Why though? You just shouldn't miss, honestly. Landing hits is totally in your hands, it's your fault if you do (or the survivor spun/Dead Harded you), I don't see the problem in punishing it. Part of what made Legion braindead is he could just swing mindlessly with 0 punishment for missing.
Because it's not a guaranteed hit, nor is it some crazy skillshot. Getting an extra swing or two wouldn't be a crazy buff to him. Especially as he is currently needing two hits to apply debuffs. Not to mention his power takes awhile to recharge as it is, and doesn't really do much anyway. Having an extra swing or two would be nice for when you get an iffy hit or randomly hit a wall or the pallet instead of a survivor.
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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
I've actually enjoyed new Legion a lot for some reason. I do have a bit of an affinity for M1 killers but idk, I've been having a lot of fun.
The only change I'd make to base Legion is reverting the vault speeds if I'm honest. I don't see why they should be so slow if Frenzy is no longer a method to down people. The fatigue on missing is totally fine to me, you should not be missing hits.
And yeah his addons need work for sure, there are so many bad ones that it feels like there was very little thought/effort put into them. Like damn his Very Rares SUCK, they have absolutely no use (apart from Cold Dirt). And the Pins are completely counter intuitive and terrible.
At the very least give a few hits. The only reason it was changed was outcry due to "m1 exploit". Even then I don't see why your power should turn off after a swing especially with how iffy the hitboxes can be, and how much control you lose after a vault.
Also, again, you could play this way before....
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@Almo said:
I should note that Legion's popularity hasn't changed much, either. So it's unlikely they are significantly "less fun" to play after the update, at least as far as the community as a whole is concerned.
We're still checking more data and monitoring the situation. Ultimately the goal is to make each Killer a great experience for both Killers and Survivors alike.
Ah, so my joke wasn't a joke. If he's so much better, or more fun, I bet he'd get more popular. The only ones playing him are probably the people who played him legit before, and the ones who got hurt the most by this update.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/489401#Comment_489401
Legion doesn't have any glaring flaws now, but he also isn't fun to play either. There is so little we as players can do with him if we were already playing Legion in this way in the first place. Everyone who played Legion without use of abusive tech has been overly hindered. His gameplay feels limiting and uncomfortable. Legion was already a low performing killer so your data is going to be maintained in a similar manner.
We've got no variety of ways to play Legion. If you don't run Etched Ruler and Stolen Sketchbook you have a much worse feeling gameplay wise. I would love to use my other addons cause I have almost 100 so some of them, but they literally are big hindrances. Every Legion thread is people saying he's unfun and doesn't feel good and the response has not been great. Getting told it will be better when animations are turned to the slower vault is kinda patronizing. 25% is noticeable and not just to the Legion player, but the survivor. We're back to dealing with people vaulting pass us on palette loops. That was considered an issue in Legion's chapter ptb and it was resolved. It felt bad then and it feels bad now.
This right here explains exactly what I've been feeling. I love how suddenly everyone's ok with Legion when 90% of them were massive hypocrites that only used Frank's and Cold Dirt while moonwalking.
Also, I played this way before and got multiple quad iris. Why couldn't any of you sudden lovers of Legion? It's so annoying to see people say, "Well he's a normal, basic m1 killer, so I can kill potatoes. That means he's totally fine." If 115 fixed ######### then Plague, Trapper, LF, Wraith, etc would be top tier right?
Also like how my changes wouldn't break Legion, but add variety and actually let him get use out of his addons. The response I get is one that doesn't really acknowledge my post, a few people who played like I did, (Hey guys, you're the mvps, glad I'm not the only one), and people saying he's fine cuz they had a good match. Also a few downvotes.
I don't care if you don't like the killer. I don't like infinites, and seeing 4 instaheals, but I gotta deal with it. A minor boost in power won't ruin your game. The fact people still DC against Legion honestly just sad. He's as basic a killer as they get, and people are STILL bitching.
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@Schwifty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/489411#Comment_489411
@Brady Bailing Survivors up in mend time only goes so far. It's a pretty weak Killer ability compared to every Killer I can think of right now. Although yesterday I had 2 survivors go down to the bleed out affect of FF and I was like wha? Where the real power lies is in keeping up with the Survivor during the chase (which I love)
That's why I enjoy Legion. I like that rushdown, it's like a more active Wraith.
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@Schwifty said:
I've started playing him since the nerf and have been doing pretty well relative to my efforts on other Killers.
And this is what gets me, I did this same playstyle before at 110. Everyone acts like you COULDN'T do it before he got 300 nerfs tacked on due to outcry. The only changes he really needed was a Frank's change, no drain in TR, and something to address just spamming FF to down. That was it, but they just kept gutting him and then scooped out the rest like they were carving a pumpkin.
I can do fine as any killer, but when it comes down to it, that doesn't make them good. Old Legion wasn't stellar either, but I quad iri/4k'd quite a few games. His power comes with an insane amount of downsides so you can, as Brady said, apply Borrowed Time. That's it, that's why the power exists. To buff BT without actually straight up saying they're gonna buff BT again.
If they don't heal, why would you even use your power? No other killer has their power just turned off after minimal use. Outside of the Plague maybe.
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People actually play him other than me and a few others? Not gonna lie, a bit shocked. A lot of the nerfs were really knee jerk and unnecessary. Yea, he can still perform, but his power basically gets shut off after you injure people. A good chunk of a killer is their power, and Legion's is very limited/heavily stacked with punishments for simply using it. I'm glad he's not done, but these changes didn't really give me much hope for him in the long run. Felt like a lot of feedback was ignored in favor of just throwing out as many "fixes" as possible to quell the anger.
I appreciate the response though.
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@Oblitiry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/450322#Comment_450322
Good! Your games have less NOEDS than other players. That's awesome.
Yeah pretending is nice and all. But here in reality NOED has counters. So does MOM. Now will you always be able to counter both? No. Will you be able to counter them in other games? Yes.
De ranking is a whole other beast to talk about.
What counters does MoM have? Bring instadown perks? Run killers that don't proc it? Stop pretending like MoM isn't broken as #########.
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@MegsAreEvil said:
Learn to play Legion. It just isnt a nobrainer like before.
What is there to learn? You ######### M1. Congrats, you can play Legion. God this argument is getting pathetic.
@Saint_Ukraine said:
Oh boo hoo.
Cry me a river.
Legion is fine. Maybe you should actually learn how to play a killer before you go voicing stupid statements like this. And Freddy is not that bad either. Sure, he takes a bit more effort to do well with, but I typically 3k with him. People are just stubborn and choose to play like morons instead of getting gud.
Yea, learn how to play the W+M1 killer. He's so difficult to learn. Stop it. Get some help.
Unlike you people, I actually DO play Legion. Shocker. I bet you all just ran Frank's/moonwalked and this is why you think he's fine cuz thinking outside the box and not running the generic popular builds is too hard.
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*starts match* *gen pops in about 20s with me walking straight towards it* Nah, this is fine. I totally had a chance to play the game. I'll try to see if I have the video, cuz I honestly wanna time it. 3 survivors spawned on a gen with PT, and I think 2 had lunchboxes.
For extra context I was tier 1 Michael, so used some time to stalk and try to locate people as I went to patrol the gen.
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@Akuma said:
I disagree in some thzings from Caretaker.
he said:
Stuns drain your power. (Bug from Plague chapter that was never addressed, and apparently now a feature.)
-Harsh FOV cut that actually gives me headaches it's so bad and abrupt.
Yea but the devs already mentioned that they will remove the depleted power gauge after you get stunned. Also the loewer FOV really doesnt matter. I dont feel like I would lose someone during this fatigue. And if that's a huge problem for you you can try out shadowborn.
The thing he cant drain your Deep Wound through hitting you in FF multiple times is just so you stop tunneling the same person. The reason they nerfed the cooldown addons because people still try to cheese one survivor instead to outplay him. DbD isnt about you get a ability which has no counterplay like the holy Nurse. Everyone should have a chance and you as a killer should try to mindgame a survivor if you dont need to sth is wrong. Billy for examble. He's so damn strong, for reasons THE high tier killer. But you still have to mindgame people and punish them for making mistakes. Legion can easily put everyone (or at leats many survivors) into the injured + Deep Wound state. If they decide to not heal it's like you were billy without charging your chainsaw.
and if people decides to heal themselfs they need to mend for 15 seconds and then healing takes 32 seconds if youre not using perks like sloppy and/or thanatophobia. That's a ton of time and map pressure. But still it has counterplay and that's very important for every killer. And when normal m1 killer can apply map pressure then even more as the legion. + You just have to want to to find survivors by using your ability. And personally Im usin his 2 + duration addons so I have 16 seconds to find the others. That's sweet and still it isnt 30 seconds. So the survivors have the counterplay to run away when they hear your TR. The only thing I miss is the increased movement speed that would be nutty.
But hey if your opinion is that legion is bad for your playstyle, thats fine. For me he's a pretty good killer. Definetely a high B Tier killer. With addons maybe B+. Idk we will see. (A: Billy, Huntress, Spirit / the nurse excluded as S tier)
Stuns drain your power. (Bug from Plague chapter that was never addressed, and apparently now a feature.)
-Harsh FOV cut that actually gives me headaches it's so bad and abrupt.
Yea but the devs already mentioned that they will remove the depleted power gauge after you get stunned. Also the loewer FOV really doesnt matter. I dont feel like I would lose someone during this fatigue. And if that's a huge problem for you you can try out shadowborn.
Where did they say this? Cuz this was a bug that was introduced during the Plague patch, but only Spirit got fixed. We talked to people on the team, and even they said they didn't remember Legion not losing power after getting stunned. I had to show videos of my old Legion gameplay to prove that it's a bug. I don't trust them.
I like how you assume I just don't know how to play the game when I've 100% the game, actually play Legion, so honestly just gonna disregard your post cuz reading your post I'm not sure you're even replying to me seeing as I covered everything you said already.
Legion is now a basic M1 killer, and that's about it. He's not B+ especially considering almost all his addons are worthless, but again I don't expect people who don't play Legion, let alone killer much judging by your post to really judge him fairly. You're basically saying a 115 killer is almost top tier simply cuz he's 115. That's just objectively wrong, not even opinion based.
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@fluffybunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444266#Comment_444266
I wouldn't think you're ignoring me for not directly quoting me. c: It's okay. I think some add-ons that weren't as popular are going to become more popular now, though some of the add-ons don't seem to be working. I wasn't sure if the PTB would waste my add-on, so I didn't try (I heard about it wasting BP, so I wasn't sure), but some of the people I've watched noted how the one that lets your killer instinct spread map wide didn't appear to be working.
Yeah, Legions can't just get a hit. They get stunned and need to do catch up. I think they may have changed it to help against someone just spamming it to close gaps and possibly getting ahead, maybe? Even then, I'd be perfectly okay with it being as fast as it was and I think allowing it at 50% would be fair. I've seen others say that was fine, too. The only way the no heal meta would change would probably be to nerf Adrenaline and to possibly buff healing and just nerf SC. That's what I'm thinking, at least, but if they touched Adrenaline, they'd probably have to change NOED, too. Those two are rather comparable. I will say Legion forces people to mend, which is more some killers have, pressure-wise.
Oh, so it'll be easier? I think I'll wait, then. owo Congratz on getting it when it was harder. c: It's exactly how you said. It's made for Frank's, but using Frank's tends to cause DCs. Don't agree with DCing, but I can understand people's frustrations with the add-on.
Wraith is my favorite! 💜 It's a lot of fun to sneak up on people. I'll say I (generally speaking) can play most of the other killers. I'm most comfortable with Wraith and Legion, though. Susie's my main Legion, too. x3 I got her shard outfit and was waiting until I got it before I played as her. The High Vis is the one coming out soon, right? I hope it looks good.
Yeah, the whiffing is kind of rough. Like I'd give Legion an extra hit, probably. When I initially complained about the whiffing thing, someone told me that it's still doable and stuff and I realized they were right, though. I was still able to chain FF or to hit the first one. Just have to be a bit patient. So, I dunno about it.
And you're fine. c: haha I do the same.
On base assumptions and the games I played duration and possible ruler is the way to go now. Double CD just isn't worth it like it used to be. Could be ok but with the nerf to them, it's still a hefty fatigue. Wraith is a good boy. I originally started the game as Wraith. Regret not getting legacy on him and the others. Chaining FF is doable, the rough part is you whiff or auto-aim to something that's your debuff.
Also this is High Vis:
Literally my fave colors/aesthetic and it's a Joe reskin. I've been begging for black/teal with a hood forever.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444269#Comment_444269
@Caretaker top of your class? You know homeschool doesn’t count right? Oh I’m sorry I didn’t mean to come up with a non-generic insult, you seem to prefer that kind of language over facts though, and I’ve got plenty of both 😄
Now you're randomly insulting home-schooled people? Also, no that was even more generic than the last one. Just stop. Honestly this time, just stop. I'm embarrassed for you at this point.
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@fluffybunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444261#Comment_444261
@tt_ivi_99 Shape and Freddy both have lower terror radius, so I think that'd be fair. I don't think it'd be too strong at all.
His TR is fine really. I wish they'd give DW a debuff of some kind after you mend. You stuffed your organs back in, that's gotta sting.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
@Caretaker you brought up school earlier maybe I can recommend some good classes to for you to enhance your single digit IQ
Graduated top of my class despite screwing around. Keep trying. You'll come up with something outside of generic randomized insult. Maybe. Probably not.
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@fluffybunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444217#Comment_444217
It's no problem. ^^
The thing about his FF speed being slowed is it makes longer loops that much riskier, and his power is super risky cuz of the amount of downsides on it now.
Yeah, I know. I was initially very hesitant about it when I first heard they were decreasing the speed, but it seems fine in play. I was able to get to people I know I wouldn't have gotten to before ('cause I was running the same add-ons and I tested around with both recently). I by no means would complain if they did increase the speed in FF. xD; But I think they changed it for balance reason. Since Legion's normal speed is faster than before, they probably need to adjust for that.
I'm thinking it'd be good if they increased vault speed and allowed you to use FF under half (along with fixing the pins, of course). I'm not too worried about people staying injured 'cause most will try to heal until working on the final gen and if they don't, it isn't too hard to down someone if they happen to be out positioned.
No one will die to deep wounds now unless they choose to so this is worthless.
I remember people complaining about that achievement even with the current Legion. I think they should change it, really. Make it so if you down someone in DW normally it'll count. Maybe that's too easy of an idea, though, I dunno.
Let me try to explain if I can lol. I am a Legion main. He's one of my main killers. P3-50, all perks. I do not use addons, I don't moonwalk, I don't cheese.
I'm still working on getting all the perks on my killers. Survivors, too, but Kate has almost all the perks except Ash's, so idm really. The most fun for me to play atm is Legion and Wraith (Wraith has BBQ, too ^^ still working on Legion). I don't P3 my characters unless I like their bloody skin. To each their own, though. c: I know a lot of people playing survivor were complaining about people would just swing and miss a lot and still get the hit, so it's understandable to have some of these changes. I do hope they retract some, though.
I'm excited for the Pin changes, too! How they were before was just silly. I just hope they add it to the first hit 'cause otherwise no one's gonna use them. -w- Well, probably not. I'm not sure.
I'm exhausted so gonna do a concise post instead of my usual. Not ignoring you, just trying to see my screen lol. Duration is going to be insanely strong on Legion now. Especially double duration. It was already strong, but based on my theory you could reliably Frenzy to start, and patrol the map and possibly tag a survivor, and then just chain to all 4 to get people injured fast. Obviously still gotta loop, and you're gonna get trash Devious, but it CAN happen.
I kinda hope they just let you FF whenever cuz it's not like Spirit who can get a cheeky hit. You can get them into injured then FF is worthless. Not even worth adding a debuff, so the full bar is really harsh. The current meta of not healing is rough cuz healing was a huge chunk of stall that was nice to have. If they don't heal, they're at risk yea, but now pressure is on cuz they'll do gens instead and you gotta get that hit/cycle out hooks. Which is why I wanted DW to do something more for some spice/stall.
Deranged Pursuit is confirmed to be changed to apply Deep Wounds then down a survivor x times. At least from what I read so. At least I can say I 100% it when it was difficult, but not gonna lie I farmed a chunk of it lol. That achievement was STUPID and basically made for Frank's which caused DCs and stopped you from getting it, lol.
I also play Wraith. He's another main alongside Spirit/Huntress. Though I do play all killers. Got all them P3, 7 maxed prior to Plague patch, working on maxing them out again. I tend to mix cosmetics/prestiges. I really wish High Vis Legion was for Susie cuz she's my main, but I might nab the cosmetic and swap it around a bit. I hope the mask fits one of her hoodies, and I'm gonna run the knife for sure.
Yea, I agree it's gotta be first hit or you risk a whiff/wasting your power just to apply a debuff that immediately ticks down after it's applied. They're kinda redundant sadly.
Edit: I lied about concise, rip, lol.
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Got my vote.
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@Tru3Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444198#Comment_444198
In the other hand monto said he likes the change
@Tru3Lemon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444159#Comment_444159
Legion its balance fam if you dont see the dev stream that they are trying to see what buff it need so that be middle but for now its balance and not toxic and cancer try to defend nobody cares about youre opinion like you said to @Speshul_Kitten if you dont like the change you need to get used to it
You cared enough to reply chief. Unlike you I care about people's fun. Shocking, you don't have to be an ######### and you can still give people a fun and fair match. I wouldn't expect most people who play this game to even consider that though. (^: Also, "on stream they said they're gonna buff him" *proceeds to nerf double cd* AT LEAST HE CAN OPEN LOCKERS AGAIN NOW, WOO! Cuz that locker nerf was necessary.
Oh boy, a guy who makes videos likes something. Glad he speaks for 30,000+ people, especially when he mains survivor mostly, and generally doesn't play Legion unless using Frank's or abusing moonwalking the very thing you clearly have complained about, how ironic. Real authority on Legion for sure.
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@fluffybunny said:
@Caretaker No, I think the issue is that you're not understanding what I'm saying. Sorry for getting upset. Felt like I was talking to myself 'cause you weren't understanding where I was coming from. We just see things differently and that's all right.
I don't think his FF speed should have been slowed, but I'll accept it if it's for balance. The things I mentioned are basically the things I think are way too weak. When I say change, I mean like a rework. Maybe I see something being "reworked" and "gutted" differently from you. I think Franks could use a little bit of a boost, too, if it keeps the if miss, stun thing. I think that'd be fair.
I agree, pins should. If it spread to everyone, that'd be good for pressure and you could possibly use it later on after downing whoever you choose to go after. Could make for some really cool stuff to play with.
Once again, sorry. owo Maybe it's just a misunderstanding.
I'm not upset at you btw. I don't hold grudges, I just fire off what's in front of me. :P Sorry if I came off that way, I tend to just kinda GO IN so I apologize.
I don't think his FF speed should have been slowed, but I'll accept it if it's for balance. The things I mentioned are basically the things I think are way too weak. When I say change, I mean like a rework. Maybe I see something being "reworked" and "gutted" differently from you. I think Franks could use a little bit of a boost, too, if it keeps the if miss, stun thing. I think that'd be fair.
The thing about his FF speed being slowed is it makes longer loops that much riskier, and his power is super risky cuz of the amount of downsides on it now. You NEED to get that hit now. This change makes duration that much stronger. The big thing was the vault speed nerf. You can now reliably use those vaults to stall out FF and possibly cause a fatigue. Not to mention FF is mostly worthless outside of that first hit. If people don't heal it's worse than Plague, you literally don't get a power anymore.
Frank's getting gutted is honestly fine, but 25% off the bar after a hit is like? Ok? No one will die to deep wounds now unless they choose to so this is worthless. I would've much prefer something interesting like pallet breaking, or a new debuff or something. In fact an idea we had was that you'd multi-stab and DW draining would cause an action speed debuff of x%. 30s for mending, 60s if the bar empties. Can't be reapplied until it wears off, drains as soon as it hits.
I agree, pins should. If it spread to everyone, that'd be good for pressure and you could possibly use it later on after downing whoever you choose to go after. Could make for some really cool stuff to play with.
If it was a single hit, that'd be fine, cuz most of them are meh outside of blindness. Then again I don't really use addons so, but I'd like SOME variety. My main issue is now yea, he's "better", but there's no umpf to him, no variety, no power. He's just a generic M1 killer.
Let me try to explain if I can lol. I am a Legion main. He's one of my main killers. P3-50, all perks. I do not use addons, I don't moonwalk, I don't cheese. I m2, and then chase. So this is a buff to me, except it's not because of the plethora of downsides I now have to deal with while trying to play my previous playstyle. Which is now forced on people. I can't even use double CD for some fun every once in a blue moon.
I don't mind him being changed, but he's just getting nerf after nerf dumped on him with no compensation or sense. No spice, no variety. A killer is their power, and Legion's power is you can M1 people, and sometimes waddle across the map for 10s. Oh and slow-mo vault, which has such a painfully bad animation lol.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444145#Comment_444145
I like Hybrid Panda and gave him the benefit of doubt to watch the video. First thing he says is he doesn't really like Legion or play Legion. On one hand that is good because it means he's got sort of fresh eyes for this. On the other hand its bad because he's also got none of the experience with previous Legion to really understand what is and isn't hurting with these upcoming changes.
The games he gets into aren't really that good either. The survivors for the most part aren't particularly good with the second game where he 4k's having one person go afk another person choosing to die to EGC and the two that were actually somewhat playing being also really bad. The first game he got one actual kill and then the other person that died chose to die to EGC when they could have escaped and the other two hatch'd right in front of him. So from the games he put up for people to see he didn't really do that well.
He talks about the issues bothering him that people have already expressed.
- Power recharge is long.
- Missed hit penalty is a bit steep
- Basic hits draining power
- Deep Wounds not really being an issue outside of a 10sec mend.
- Stun is really harsh.
There are other issues that Legion's got that he doesn't have to deal with as the survivors weren't good enough to actually cause them to happen. From this video what you can take away from it is that from the perspective of a person who openly admits that didn't play Legion as they didn't ever really mesh with the killer's play style and never really played them past initial release is that now that they've sat down and played Legion on ptb now they enjoy what he's doing now. Which is what he's always been capable of doing and Legion players who weren't playing like potatoes have been doing the entire time. The only difference is Legion doesn't have reliable pressure with Deep Wounds as it poses no threat to your life. If you run Iri Button it especially stops posing any threats.
THANK YOU!
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@fluffybunny said:
@Caretaker They'd also have to see things in black and white, miss half of what you say, and twist your words. c:
I mean that's literally all you've done this entire time, so I don't know why you're talking to that mirror instead of me chief. Show me where I twisted your words and ignored what you said. Cuz last I checked I bolded your statements, then offered a counter point, and that upset you apparently.
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@fluffybunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444183#Comment_444183
I only wish you could come across someone who argues like you. That'd be great.
Yea, I'd love someone who doesn't take criticism/counter points as insults.