Caretaker
Caretaker
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696397#Comment_696397
I do just fine with every Killer, of course I don't 4k every game, but its rare for me to get a 4 man escape loss...
Also, Billy is just fine, even with the grey add-ons (Spark Plug + Vegetable oil) due to how lax that Killer really is, and hes honestly the most fleshed out Killer there is currently...
Even with a solid solo or SWF, you can still 4k them or get some of them killed, idk why everyones so afraid of SWFs... they're honestly overrated at this point of how "hard" they're to face. Yeah, they're not easy if they're good, but they're not gods lmao.
It depends on the Killer, your awareness of the map, the scenario, and your skill if you'll win or not. And this should go without being said, but 4king isn't always a win, even if you 3k or 2k or 1k its honestly ok. Not every game should be perfect.
(I know you didn't mention the 4k part, but it should be said because someones gonna say it lmao.)
You can technically play any killer at high ranks and still technically win. However against a hyper coordinated team you're just not gonna have a good time without really pressuring and taking someone out fast. There's a lot of RNG involved which can be super frustrating.
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@xllxENIGMAxllx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696404#Comment_696404
Matt Walker should play against sweaty SwF sometime. I'm sure he will not be fun.
Trust me Mathieu cote learned from it.
Poor Mathieu. Flashlights got nerfed REAL fast after that. If only he did lol.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696400#Comment_696400
Idk what to tell ya, it works wonders for me especially at Red Ranks.
You honestly gotta focus more on hurting Survivors, than you do with protecting gens. The more Survivors that're hurt, the easier the Trial gets. Pre-Nerf Legion was really good at this concept, and could FF everybody really easily.
If you use Legion, use his add-ons that extend mend times or his add-ons that increase the FF timer, it really does improve post-nerf Legion. If you focus more on having them mend, they'll honestly do worse as a result, if you focus all the time on generator defense, you'll lose a lot on Legion.
Legion is the type of Killer to honestly have you focus on a different objective than the actual one, which is defending generators... It really does play into their character, that they really do enjoy causing people pain more than they do Killing them.
Knowing this, will save you a lot of games.
Guys, I know how to play Legion. That's not the point of the video. I have plenty of videos of me 4k, and quad Iring as Legion. On the PTB and after PTB rework. This was a losing game, and there was nothing I could do. That was the point. I'm not looking for tips on how to play Legion, or what I did wrong. I know what I did wrong, and I know how to play Legion, but thank you. And again, I don't use addons.
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@xllxENIGMAxllx said:
Welcome to my world where i get rushed a lot. sometime he also happen with Billy because i don't use the insta-saw combo.
That's why Nurse should stay as it is until all maps get reworked because i don't think killers want to be looped and gen rushed every day.
If you want my opinion i think the maps are too big and gen too scattered to put a real pressure against solid solo or optimized SwF.
I feel you man. Matt Walker strikes again. These maps are so god awful and they just keep getting worse. Definitely the biggest problem next to gen times.
@Warlock_2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696345#Comment_696345
No, it won't. I main Trapper. 1-3 gens done before the first hook is the norm. I set the field with my traps and chase anything near a gen off while doing it. After , the snowball starts. Usually there are bo more gens done as my map pressure skyrocketed. I have half the gens trapped with 3 to 4 gens to guard. I pip easily and 4k more than 3k.
It is about picking your battleground. Don't try to pressure the entire map if you don't have the means. Pick your spots.
Ok, but Legion doesn't have traps so this doesn't help me. I know how to play killer, this was an unwinnable situation. Maybe as another killer, perhaps, but I highly doubt it. Also 3 gens popping for set-up shouldn't be normal. That's kinda ridiculous, but yea, Trapper arguably has some of the best snowball in the game if your traps are popping off right.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696385#Comment_696385
Also, another point I wanna tell you that might help in the future with that build.
When you start the game as Legion, you should always focus on getting as many people Frenzied as you can first. This will maximize the time wasted mending and healing, and overall will improve your chances of getting a snowball effect going on.
People naturally heal against Legion, if the team is good they wont. But this just hurts them in the end because they're a one hit down. Its the same with Plague, having people in the injured state really does make the game go by faster.
And since they improved his walk speed from 4.4 to 4.6, its actually easier to down people now. Granted, hes no way the same as he was before, which made him more unique and fun... but the way he is now, can be worked around if you know what to do.
Try to focus on using add-ons based around extending his Frenzy time also, this will help chain-stabbing Survivors in the long run, and also once all people are injured, don't be afraid to continue the cycle of Frenzy hitting injured people if a stack of Survivors are in one area. If you also use add-ons that increase his mend time, this too will waste a lot of time. And with the help of Pop goes the Weasel and Thanatophobia, this will make it really hard to progress in-game...
If people are mending and healing, this benefits the Legion greatly, and a lot of Survivors really don't know that for some reason... even Post-Nerf.
I do try to get multiple hits off, but in this case even if I had gone across the map I'd have fatigued before hitting anyone, and then I'm on CD for 20s, so sadly no go there. Also, they had We'll Make It, and were healing SUPER fast as you can see.
As above, they healed SUPER fast, otherwise yea I prefer them not healing cuz it makes my life easier as Legion.
I actually liked it when he was 4.4 funny enough. I'll take the faster FF numbers over the current cuz I still got downs as a 110 killer. I play the same exact way I did then, as I do now. I've got vids showing it too.
I don't use addons, and I do FF on multiple survivors despite being injured. One cuz I want points, and two if there's a few I want to get some mend time in but even then it's not super worth. You have to stab, chase, stab, possibly stab again or a 4th time. By then the first guy is mended, and you gotta fatigue for 4s +the last person you choose to chase won't have to waste time mending sadly. Thana could work, but it did get kinda nerfed. I might try it, but 15% at 4 injured isn't super crazy either.
Yea, I have no clue why people heal against him, but then again staying injured against me just makes my life easier so I'll take it lol.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696383#Comment_696383
There's really not much you can do in that video, and yes, I seen you made some mistakes as the killer. However, I don't think it would be fair to say that was the problem because I know if you didn't mess up, you still would have lost in my opinion. :)
You're right, I did make a few mistakes. I'm not about to pretend like I played flawlessly. That second Frenzy was REALLY bad. Granted there was a few issues with the game, but I'm not using that as an excuse it was on me.
I do agree though, even playing 100% optimal I was screwed. They were smart players, they knew what they had to do, and they did it. I got a bit scatterbrained and I lost. I do feel like that start wasn't THAT bad though, not worth losing 3 gens. That's just wow. I haven't lost gens that fast in a long time. I don't want my games to go like that every time. I don't wanna have to hard camp or tunnel either. It's so boring to play that way, and I feel bad for the Kate.
I'm just not gonna let her go though.
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696383#Comment_696383
Ignore the gens that you can't hold; cut your loses and hold the closest 3 gens you can. If you're a good legion you should be able to do this; I've done it myself with decent success.
The gens were opposite of each other, I didn't have anyone on hook, and they were focus firing the 2. By the time I downed/hooked and stabbed multiple survivors I'd lost the other 2 gens.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696360#Comment_696360
Yeah, if you wanna try out another build though that might help, just refer to the post I made before this one, it might actually help slow the game down.
I've done the slow-down builds. CI, SB, Ruin, Thrilling, etc. I didn't notice a change against coordinated survivors, or even a ragtag bunch of solos that just know how to run the loops and focus fire gens. I might mix it up, but honestly probably just gonna shelf Legion sadly. The 4s fatigue is just absurd, and his power is not nearly as powerful as it used to be. I know people will disagree, or say I have no clue what I'm talking about, but I've mained Legion since launch, and never moonwalked or used Frank's so.
@[Deleted User] said:
There's nothing preventing survivors from working on gens individually while someone is in chase. 80 seconds isn't that long if they're playing super safe at pallets. B tier and lower killers are reliant on survivor mistakes to a certain degree.
Sadly, and they only made a few, but that still cost me the match.
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696377#Comment_696377
Then the alternative is to suck it up and instead pressure gens instead of survivors into smaller areas for easy defending later on and take the Gatekeeper hit.
Again, how do I apply pressure here when they're making me ping pong back to back on gens on opposite sides of the map? If I focused on a chase I give up the gen on the other side. If I don't chase, I give them time to heal/work on the other gen.
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696370#Comment_696370
If you run into rushers a lot use NOED. People are gonna get salty, but the whole point of the perk is to punish gen rushing.
I could run NOED, but I'd honestly really rather not. I have no issues with it, but I still don't like it.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696343#Comment_696343
We have to be careful with what we choose because if we add a requirement of gears, survivors won't be at generators during the beginning of the Trial - they are looking for gears. The killer won't have any clues to find and initiate a chase, then once all of the gears are finished, the same thing will happen.
Personally, I think we need Fuse Boxes that survivors need to repair once the generators are completed because it gives you a place to find survivors unlike your suggestion. They will need to find a fuse, and once they grab a fuse, maybe you see a noise notification?
I hate to post this in your thread, but I feel like it's necessary instead of me writing a wall of text about how to add a second objective for survivors! :)
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/86586/fuse-boxes-ultimate-solution
Nah, I can see your point, but you might also catch someone roaming around looking. That's also a good idea and it's relevant to the topic. Gen times are just way too fast for killers to put reliable pressure. Especially weaker killers.
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@AetherBytes said:
What hurts me is that you played Legion incorrectly at the start there, effectively denying your power. You should have abandoned the claud and found the other survivors. Claud had to mend and heal; if you went for other survivors you could most likely have frenzy chained them and got everyone injured and off gens except for the claud who just mended/healed.
As legion, you want to keep everyone bleeding out as much as possible, taking chases when a survivor or two are mending. Depending on the loop, let them pallet stun you out of FF, since it's quicker then the cooldown, and either continued the chase or started applying pressure to other survivors depending on the situation.
Legion works when you make a point to keep everyone as injured as possible (run sloppy, it'll help), because they're off gens and injured.
Ok so, 40s in to find Claud. Activate power, Frenzy, and run across the map so I can what, fatigue? That'd take another 10s or so, +4s fatigue, so roughly 55-60s~ gone right there. Then I'd have to wait ANOTHER 20s to get my power back, so that's 80s gone, which is basically a generator and nothing would've changed. Except Claud would've been mended, and working on the other gen, while I chased in a super safe area. Also assumes I could've chained 3 hits and they wouldn't scatter or stay separated.
I know how to play Legion, as you can see I ate a pallet for a faster cd. Mending isn't scary, and doesn't take much time or Doc would be top tier. Even if I did start tagging them they'd just split, mend, do gens, or loop while I was on cd.
Sloppy doesn't help, cuz it doesn't work on mending and it's a terrible perk in general considering no one heals, or should be healing when they can just rush into adren.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696344#Comment_696344
That is why I don’t care about pips anymore, snowballing is effective but pipping is much harder.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696345#Comment_696345
I didn’t watch the video but you might’ve gotten a bad map which makes things harder but the scenario is still winnable but it’ll be very very challenging.
I spawned in, found a Claud, chased her, and lost 3 gens immediately. Had gens situated on opposite sides, and they had a toolbox/were coordinating gens together whenever I left to apply pressure. I had no chance of winning that without hard camping/tunneling, and even then I'd have probably barely got a kill like I did.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696332#Comment_696332
Some Survivors are just cruel to Killers, probably cause some Killers were cruel to them. So screw all Killers right?
Idk, some people just wanna play the game super optimized and try-hardy, in a game where that literally doesn't matter at all. This game is just bragging rights simulator tbh lmao.
You're not wrong. I just hate playing fair and trying to have fun only to get a game like this back to back. Just kills all will to play the game. I only like to play with my friends and they don't really play the game due to the horrible balance so I stick to killer. Which I honestly prefer. However, it's so stressful cuz you either play 100% optimal, and sweat your ass off or you just get run around and eat wood for 5 minutes.
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@SkeletalElite said:
You're playing a bottom tier killer with no ruin.
You can't really expect to down people quickly enough to not have gens pop.
On the bright side they did every gen on that side of the map allowing for an easy three gen. Which you could have exploited.
Did you watch the video or read the post? Ruin would've popped, or they would've worked through it. Ruin doesn't do anything to anyone with half a brain that can hit checks or bring a toolbox. Legion is a low-tier killer, but I usually don't struggle THIS bad. I used to play him this way at 110 and had no issues.
Also, exploit the 3 gen how? They were spreading out so I couldn't make full use of Frenzy, had two gens on opposite sides and were safe on both sides should I choose to chase. By the time I got a down the 4th gen was pretty much gone already.
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@Yamaoka said:
Why would you run Brutal Strength on Legion? Agitation is nearly useless, too. Get rid of one of those trash perks and run Corrupt Intervention. You're playing Legion which means:
- People will either try and wait it out near the blocked generators allowing you to create early game pressure as Legion can find anyone using FRENZY.
OR
- people will run through the map looking for non-blocked generators giving you enough time to create pressure anyways.
All of the generators in this video popped just after the 80 second mark which is exactly how long it takes to repair a generator by default if you spawn next to them.
I like Brutal, and Agi is pretty helpful for body blocking, and I like the synergy it has with Pop and Brutal. Corrupt might've helped but then they could've just hid for 2 minutes, and worked on the gens while I searched.
Also, you have to be in range to use FRENZY, and you have to HIT THEM TO APPLY DEEP WOUNDS. So, it's not a guarantee, or even a remotely good power compared to it's previous iteration.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696340#Comment_696340
Your gate keeper will be destroyed and pipping near impossible in that situation though.
A 4k sure that can be clutch'd but you won't pip at higher rank brackets.
This as well. 3 gens popping that fast is a guaranteed Bronze assuming you even stall the game that long. Even then I focus more on points, and getting kills. Not hyper focused on killing, but I do like to go for the 4k. So, at least for me ranking isn't a huge deal. Other than not wanting to stomp new players, ala the free weekend.
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@GrootDude said:
1 chase and three gens are common, that is when things start shaping up though, in my last match the survivors did three gens through ruin before my first hook but I still got a 4K, I usually start building a snowball at this point, it won’t always form quickly or at all but you can easily recover from this.
Also, you’ll have less gens to patrol making things easier.
The problem is the gens were on opposite sides, plenty of pallets, and they were hyper focused on gens. The time it took me to chase/down I'd already lost my 4th gen. If I had a 3 gen scenario maybe, but there was no winning this match. If I kept ping-ponging back and forth between the gens they'd have just popped them, popped adren, and got out anyway. 1 chase 3 gens shouldn't be a normal occurence.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/88553/gen-times-are-fine
Personally, I think it's the beginning part of the game that's the problem because you have no pressure. All 4 survivors are free to do whatever they want because there's no rescuing they need to do until the first survivor is hooked.
I think we need something to help the killer during the first 2 minutes of the game, and preferably, a fun second objective. :)
100% agreed. You're definitely at your weakest early game having to spend time to find a survivor. I usually have good luck and know the spawns fairly well. Even then between finding and the subsequent chase you're going to lose gens if they're smart.
I'd really like it if we had gears or something needed to fix the gens before you can repair them. If regressing it worked like Overcharge and you had to hit skillchecks before being able to repair it again. Anything really.
@shocktor said:
I don't think you understand how difficult it is to play Survivor. Holding down a button and having to press another button. Stop playing easy mode Caretaker! Play Survivor once in a while. Also if you're having a difficult time, just equip Ruin, Sloppy, Hardcamp and Tunnel for 30 minute games.
Ah, very true. A disciple of Morf's I see. :^)
@ABannedCat said:
Why I became a Nurse-main. I will never look back to the times where I tortured myself with M1-killers.
See, and I could just go Nurse. I know in the end I said Ebony Omega Nurse time, but I don't really play the hard meta killers much. I don't run addons, I don't run Ruin or Sloppy(I think they're both trash if I'm being honest). I try my best to double hook everyone, I don't tunnel etc. Sadly I think it's come to the point where I can't play my fave which is Legion. Hell, I played M1 addonless Legion before his masssive nerf and still had fun/did well. If games keep up like this then yup, I'll have to play Nurse. At least her new skin looks fantastic.
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@FireHazard said:
Sometimes dude, there's nothing you can really do.
That's the real issue if its a SWFs or just a good solo team, some people just know what to do in every scenario and they do it to their maximum potential. Not everyone's perfect, but if they know what they're doing... and EVERYONE knows what they're doing... it can really be a problem.
And sometimes, we just have to accept that.
I don't even think this was a swf. It might've been? I honestly had no clue. I just know they were hyper coordinated and super focused on gens. You're totally right. I just hate being the power role and feeling powerless. It defeats the purpose. I like to play with off builds, and play fair and let people get points. Then I get games like this, and another similar game with someone running the Asylum "infinite" and I just wonder why I bother?
@FuelSauce said:
Inb4 someone says your post title but isn't being sarcastic.
Quoted, I want in on this.
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No, he needs a LOT more than that. The only change old Legion needed was 115, remove drain in TR, and rework Frank's Mixtape. Which they did, but then decided to utterly gut and ruin him beyond repair. Anyone saying this "new Legion" couldn't be done before is lying, and I've got vids to prove it.
As for pins, make it only take affect after they mend, are healed from dying state, or unhooked. Then the status actually takes affect at an important part of the game, not draining during a chase/on the hook.
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@Rydog said:
I currently have 993 hours played, according to my Steam profile. Let's cut that by 25% for time spent in queues, or forgetting that I have the game running in the background (which I do a lot). That's roughly 750 hours.
I have 28 of 51 survivor teachables unlocked, with tier 3 of all currently accessible perks on one single main. I have 41 of 48 killer teachables unlocked, with tier 3 of all currently accessible perks on Spirit. My next-most-developed killer, Nightmare, will require another 45 webs to reach this state AFTER this change goes live. I've never prestiged any character.
Also, I've been playing since November 2018. That's an average of about 75 hours per month, which I suspect is a pretty huge commitment for a normal person -- again, our main target audience.
It's effing stupid that, given this, I do not have all teachables unlocked, and even if I did I would barely even have them all available for one survivor and more importantly ONE KILLER.
Exactly the grind and this fix is absurd. It'll help vets with 40+ level characters, but doesn't actually address the grind at all. I'm at 1800+ hours. I've got every killer to P3, 8 maxed atm, some hovering around 10-25-40~ish. I've got Nea P2, Ash/Meg P1, and Feng P3 all perks, all teachables on both sides unlocked. That's including me playing right before Legacy ending, all the events after, and all the BP bonus events after. I'm STILL struggling to catch up/even remotely achieve my goal.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647737#Comment_647737
Yeah, I think they have some wild fears about player retention. But they could reduce the perk grind while still requiring some effort, and also there are other types of grinds.
The bottom line is that at the newbie levels, even getting access to a decent selection of perks is too intimidating (which the upcoming change does not address at all). And at veteran levels, getting the specific perks you want on specific characters is totally random and unreasonable (which the upcoming change helps with...but this really should go much further).
It really should. It's going to take me 2.4mil~+ to get Steven and Nancy to level 40 as well as unlocking their teachables. Then another roughly 900k~+, possibly 1mil depending on the RNG to get my P3 Feng all the perks again. So about 3.4milBP+~ Just to catch up one character out of 19. That still need to be prestiged.
I'm sorry, I forgot to add the new system, so 2 perks per web, so still 450k~+BP to max out Feng again. So, still roughly 3mil~+ BP just to get one character back to max. That's 3 BP caps just to catch up as a vet player. Assuming I get perfect 32,000 BP matches, no offerings that's 31+ matches just to earn the BP.
Another way to fix this would be uncap the BP, and actually bump up BP rewards/gains all around. Have more events, anything. I stand by the Tier 1/20-25-30 teachables idea though. +A recycler of course cuz god that'd be insanely helpful for trash offerings/addons. Also, another thing I love is bringing up weak killers, BHVR's response is usually, "Just use addons." However, a lot of them aren't even that good, they sometimes don't show up, are high rarity level, and/or new players won't have them. +This grind doesn't help that, but mine would.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647714#Comment_647714
I feel like all potential improvements and ideas are hamstrung by the existing structure, which isn't built to promote a reasonable and non-oppressive grind.
Maybe teachables could be dropped to levels 15, 20, and 25? Maybe at level 40+, you ONLY get offered tier 3 perks from the web? Why couldn't we have both of those?
I'm looking for ways to straight-up reduce the perk grind, full stop, with no catches. Behavior doesn't seem interested in entertaining that.
There are still other types of grinds. We still need items and offerings. Some players choose to prestige. There's going to be whatever the archives and rifts are. Just let us have reasonable access to all perks on all characters for a reasonable, healthy human time commitment.
I 100% agree. The grind is here to keep people playing, but the problem is it's so unhealthy for new players and even old alike that it ends up killing any will to grind or really put effort into it. What about my ideas, and we can drop teachables to 20-25-30? That way you'd unlock your perk slots, AND look forward to teachables right after. Plus you'd get access to all the perks much faster. 10 less levels per character.
I'll be honest, I don't think they want to fix the grind. I think they want it as an artificial way to inflate playtime, but if the grind wasn't so bad people would play more, and actually have achievable goals. Mine is all killers P3, all perks. I want every character P3, all perks, but it's just not feasible to do both sides without thousands of hours.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/644917#Comment_644917
This +1.
Simply adding the potential to acquire 2 perks bloodweb after lv 40 is a much bigger QoL change than most yet realise.
Cuz this doesn't affect new players at all, nor does it even touch the ridiculous grind it takes to get to 40, and even enough perks for this to be meaningful to a new or even a vet like me with every perk unlocked. It shaves a good chunk, but I still have to grind new characters, get others to 40+. There's still an insane grind left.
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@Rydog said:
I mean, whatever. Behaviour should figure out a way to:
a) Compress perks into one single tier apiece, because the 3-tier system serves no purpose outside of arbitrarily extending the grind, and makes it a significant hassle to pick up the perks you are looking for on any given character.
b) Reduce the barrier to unlocking teachable perks, because it forces a new player to commit an insane amount of BP and multiple characters to even have a shot at putting together a viable build on even one single character.
Maybe the current system is a no-go for these ideas, because a new player will run out of items after 14 levels or whatever. We're not asking you to hit that wall and give up on it, we're asking you to figure it out and fix it, because it's not player-friendly at all. Like I said earlier, this new change helps players who are knee-deep already -- but it does nothing to help newbies, nor does it do anything to let you target specific perks that you really want.
@Peanits Are you guys even on the same page about what an issue the grind is? Do you not believe a player should reasonably be able to unlock all perks on a survivor main plus the majority of killers inside of, say, 1,000 hours of play? I would love to hear Behaviour's perspective on it, and what you feel is a healthy and acceptable target for this kind of progress.
@Rydog How do you feel about that fix to my change? Tier 1 perks. Every 2 levels you gain a perk up to 30. Then you get a perk every level. This would cut it down to roughly 77 levels per character, ignoring the usual teachable grind which with this change and possibly a recycler would be totally fine and still keep the grind intact.
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@JordanMalicious said:
Looking at the masses, I'm going to assume most players do not Prestige 3 every single killer and survivor and also get every single perk for them. That seems ridiculous.
Wanna know why most people don't prestige? It's cuz the grind is absolutey ridiculous and puts Chinese MMOs to shame. If the grind was somewhat manageable and accessible to even the hardcore players then they'd probably prestige.
@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/646870#Comment_646870
@Caretaker Seems like the comment that I was going to write got erased for some reason but here we go, writing all of it again.
For start. Unless you're an obsesive collectionist, you don't need every perk in-game for every survivor in-game, the same applies for killers. Most players just go for the theachables only and then level their main.
About the maths, they are the "cold" and sad true but you're a bit mistaken with them.
Let's say the Stranger Thing DLC is in-game. That makes 71 survivor perks with 3 tiers each one. We will be using the current system of one perk per bloodweb
71 x 3 = 213 - 3 (because you have the base survivors perks at tier I) = 210 bloodwebs.
The next calculation you do this
210 x 50 k (this is the average of blood points wasted in bigs bloodwebs, mean level 40-50 ones) = 10,500,000 total BP to win every perk in the game with a single survivor
But, you commit the mistake of thinking that you spend 50 k in every single bloodweb. The next ones are the results of a survivor bloodwebs with a character with prestige level one (yes I don't have all characters prestiged).
In the first five ones I spend an average of 10k to 20k (19 k was the bigger honestly), from 5 to level 10 an average of 15k to 25k , from 11 to 15 an average from 20k to 25k, from level 16 to level 20 from 20k to 30k. I didn't go further from level 20 but let's assume you spend 50k points (wich is insane because the biggler bloodwebs start appearing at level 30 and not a lot of them until 40)
So, let's do maths and I'll assume you spend the maximun instead the average in the first blood webs. Shall we?
1 to 5 levels 20k * 5 bloodwebs = 100k
6 to 10 level 25k * 5 bloodwebs = 125k
11 to 15 level 25k * 5 bloodwebs = 125k
16 to 20 level 30k *5 bloodwebs = 150k
That makes you need 500k BP to reach level 20 and that's as an overstatenment. Generally you need 500k BP to reach level 30 and that happens even in prestige 3 that you need 350k as the highest value but I took the bigger numbers and not the average ones.
*If you prestige the survivors/killers you don't need to spend that big amount in the biggest bloodwebs to obtain all perks, when you simply reach level 50, go for the prestige so it will be easier and cheaper if we talk in BP as money
Let's assume you have to spend 500k BP to reach level 20 (wich as I said it's impossible)
So we already have 20 perks from the 210 bloodwebs, that means we have 190 bloodwebs left
190 * 50k of bloodpoints (and as I said 50k are in the biggest bloodwebs, so it's an overstatement) = 9,500,000 BP
Now, let's use the averages that means 500k BP for 30 levels (10 perks less to reach the biggest amount)
So 180 * 50k (again as an overstatement because from 30 to 50 the bloodwebs are smaller) =9,000,000 BP
Now, let's use the new bloodweb but just in the last 20 levels (We can grab two perks).
50K * 90 (we grab two perks in each bloodweb so we only need half of them) = 4,500,000 BP
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The grind needs to be lowered but this new system helps a lot to lower it
Let's change the values a bit
From level 30 to 40 mostly, you have an average from 35 to 40k of BP
Let's use the new system as well grabbing two perks in each level
20 * 40k =800,000 BP
So we only need 80 bloodwebs (180 perks - 20 = 160/2 , remember we need half of the total bloodwebs to obtain the 160 perks left)
80 * 50k = 4,000,000 BP
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I know the grind is absolutely big but the new system actually helps, maybe grabbing two perks from level 30 instead of 40 will be better.
The new system only helps once you break level 40. New players won't get the full benefit of this as they still have to not only buy/unlock those characters, but get them to 40 as well. Which is why I say this system doesn't help new players at all and mine would.
@TheBean said:
@Caretaker but yeah it helps more for grinding after level 40... so new players still need to spend allot of time to unlock those teachables. Since the changes doesn't really help with that.
Would almost just be better not to have to unlock teachables through the web. Just buying the character should automatically make their teachables available. If they wanted to help the newers players more.
That'd be a neat fix. Definitely would be nice to not waste a level on teachables.
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@TheBean said:
I think if you work it out... You'd be looking at roughly a 40% reduction in the bloodweb grind for both sides.
At first when I read the changes, I didn't think it would be much.. but 40% seems like a good reduction. When trying to get all the perks on a character.
That is if... You get 1 perk per level up to 39... Then get 2 perks per level after that.
That also doesn't factor in prestiging.
Doesn't factor prestiging, or the grind to unlock every single teachable. 57 for survivors, 51 for killers, so 108 teachables over all. That adds an extra 153 levels for killers, 171 levels for survivors. If you factor in 3 levels per teachable, and not the teachables being unlocked.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/646791#Comment_646791
There's actually a catch to that as well: If they showed up every other level, you'd still have quite a bit of grind. Just going to use the survivor side as an example again:
65 perks, one every other level. That's a total of 130 levels.
Currently, you would need 195 levels.
With the bloodweb change proposed, you would need 118 levels.
(One level for each perk between 1-40, then one level for two perks for the rest.)
If you compare having a single fully leveled perk every other level and the bloodweb change that's coming, it would actually take a few more levels. You'd also still run out of perks at level 28 as a new player, for what it's worth.
Sorry, I meant to say up to 30. After 30 you'd get a perk every level. My bad for the mix-up, I thought I'd typed that out. Also, my math was with the 15, again my mistake. Either way you'd get a teachable at 30 so that would kinda work out better.
If it were just to go 2 every level, then even out at 30, 1 perk per level, you'd have a bit of a dryspell if you were a new player, but overall it would cut the grind once you unlock teachables. Either way, the new system doesn't help new players, or even a some of the vets who don't have 40+ characters. You could even implement this system as well so a new player could feel confident about leveling up and prestiging multiple killers. I'd actually get to level mine which would be fantastic.
After fixing my wording that'd be roughly 28 perks at 30, teachable at 30, 35, 40, so 8 perks in between those, then you'd need 37 levels after 40, so 77 levels overall. Which is totally manageable, and makes prestige much more enticing. Meaning more healthy grind, and new players can prestige/level faster too.
Thanks for catching my mistake in my fix. All fixed now would be 77 vs 118.
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@Saitamfed said:
Why is destroying the game? If you're new of course you will need to work hard to get those perks, besides, let's say the perks are all tier I What happend about the players who unlocked all Tier III perks? They only get a "thank you for your effort"? And what happend when those people have all perks? What's the point of wasting points in the bloodweb? Because I'll have new objects? Then I run Plundered's instinct and Ace in the Hole and I have a good object with two good add-ons. I mean, one thing is making easier to get perks but you literally are killing the main objetive of bloodwebs and prestige.
Did you read the thread? I want you to look at the math. 74,700,000 to max all survivors assuming they are level 50, and excluding the P3 grind and teachable unlock grind. Does that look healthy to you or even possible?
If the perks are all dropped to tier 1, then you can get some form of compensation through a skin, auric cells, shards, or BP. I don't care about compensation, cuz I want to actually be able to prestige/max out my characters without wasting hundreds if not thousands of hours to finally unlock everything.
Also, do you watch any streams at all? There are people who literally just dump BP into the same killer/survivor that's been maxed out for months. They don't level anyone else. They just level the same characters and hoard addons/items. You run Plunder/Ace, but that's you. A new player won't have those. Also, I'm not killing the main objective you are literally just exaggerating for the sake of it.
There is 19 survivors, and 17 killers. It takes 1.5mil~ BP to prestige, that's 4.5~mil BP to prestige 3. 50k~ BP to fill out a bloodweb assuming you get good RNG. 216 levels of perks on the survivor side. That's roughly 1.5mil~ to hit 50, then after assuming no dead webs with no perks which they do show up, you'd still need 166 levels, 83 with these proposed changes. That's 4.15mil BP~ to get all perks unlocked. 5.65mil BP to get P3 all perks unlocked with the new system.
This is also assuming you've gotten every surv to 40 to unlock their teachables, which is roughly 1.25~mil BP. That's 23,750,000 BP, which this new system doesn't affect at all. Read that again. THIS NEW SYSTEM DOESN'T HELP THAT GRIND AT ALL! So, no my proposed change wouldn't kill the main objective, or prestige, or anything. In fact many people refuse to prestige cuz the grind is so absurdly bad. Prestige isn't special either, it's bloody clothes, and 3% extra rarity increase in the webs.
BHVR sells cosmetics, prestiging isn't worth anything anymore bar bragging rights and a grind to keep you playing the game if you're into that. However, if that goal is unobtainable then people might just forego it, and even quit like many of my friends have due to the horrible balance, and the insane grind. Now, fun fact, everything I mentioned is just the survivor side. Imagine wanting to prestige 3 all killers, and unlock all their teachable, and max them out? Killers aren't skins either, so you can't just pick one and have the same build or experience.
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@fcc2014 said:
@Caretaker It does when they level up multiple characters to get their unique teachables to put on their mains.
Yea, you get those perks at 40, meaning if you're leveling to get a teachable and nothing else, then no. This literally doesn't affect at you at all. Except for that one main character. It cuts 4 webs, or 200k worth of BP.
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Except it doesn't help new players? Like, at all? Even vets don't get any use out of this if their characters aren't 40+, or if they're trying to prestige. The only time this is really efficient or helpful is someone trying to max out a character without prestiging, or someone who finally hit P3, got to level 40, and then it helps. So, no it's not a good fix at all.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/646771#Comment_646771
I went ahead and fact checked it just to be safe.
Dark Sense, Deja Vu, Hope, Kindred, Lightweight, No One Left Behind, Plunderer's Instinct, Premonition, Resilience, Slippery Meat, Small Game, Spine Chill, This Is Not Happening, and We'll Make It.
That is every single generic survivor perk. 14 in total. If you were to get one perk per level, that would take 14 levels. You do not start with teachable perks. All three of your unique perks start unlocked.
I'm sorry that you feel like adding more perks to the bloodweb is destroying the game. If you like, I can pass that feedback on to the team. Though this has been a suggestion made many times by the community over the years and we have decided to implement it into the game. While it may not be your ideal solution, it is one that a lot of people have wanted to see for quite a while.
Ah, buddy added Left Behind in the list, so yea, 14. There's an easy fix to that though, @Peanits . Make perks pop up every 2 levels. Even new players can tell most of those generic perks are awful, and they won't use them again. Most people know what perks they want/which to go for to have a good build to start with. So, I'm sorry it's a very easy to fix and perks aren't even that rewarding early on. Doesn't fix 90% of the grind either, and the fix doesn't do anything to help new players as you suggested.
I'm sorry if you think we dislike this change. We don't, but it doesn't fix anything aside from people who have already dumped tons of hours into the game. Technically doesn't even help some of them either. Cuz you'd either need to max a character at 50 and not prestige, or hit prestige 3-40 to even have this really be worthwhile. Which is still a massive grind ignoring unlocking teachables, and perks on EVERY killer/survivor maxed. +3 extra perks is 9 levels, so you get 2 per web. Meaning it cuts about 4 webs of grinding. Saves about 200k.
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@Kaelum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/644917#Comment_644917
Are you serious? Please don’t tell us that you are basing the ENTIRE Bloodweb on the first character that a new player levels. Also, what you stated is absolutely FALSE! Including the general perks, there is no freaking way that any player could get all of the available perks by level 14. You might want to fact-check that response.
You guys need to seriously think about how you are destroying the game, instead of shoveling us these kinds of answers. BTW, a new player would LOVE to only have to worry about addons and offerings for those few levels, if it were true.
Base pool for survivors is 15 levels. So assuming you don't get a single dead web, it'd be about level 15~. However this is easily alleviated by making the web drop a new perk every 2 levels. So 2-4-6-8-etc. This way you'd get perks up to 30, then a teachable at 30, last perk at 32, teachable at 35, and your final teachable at 40. +A lot of items/addons to fool around with. I've only done the math on survivor side, but I imagine this could work fine for killer side as well.
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Regardless of compensation, this change is not a healthy change. It doesn't help new players like people claim or even BHVR claims. It's a really poor bandaid fix to appease people so they stop asking. They have been saying they'd fix the grind for over a year now. An entire year has gone by with people begging them to consider how much content in terms of perks and grind is going to be added, and this is what we get? Not to mention word that they'd be cutting back on BP events awhile ago?
This whole "BP Economy" excuse doesn't work either. There are people who will literally just funnel BP into a single killer/survivor and have tons of addons anyway. A P3 fresh release killer isn't a problem, nor is a 50 killer that's new with all perks/a full loadout. Why would anyone want to or think that's a good way to judge the killer? You have to struggle to get builds/perks unlocked to test out and that could take an insane amount of time.
Lower addon rarity so they show up even less. Make prestige % to get rarer items more than just what? 3%? Gives incentive to grind out and prestige, fixes the "BP Economy" myth/issue, and new players can get into the game, get their perks/loadouts, and catch up to the people with hundreds or even thousands of hours.
I stand by it, Tier 1 perks, and a recycler to get back 50% BP. I'd be ok with 25% even. As for what Peanits said in my thread about new players maxing out at 14 and not getting new perks. Most of the base pool perks for both sides are awful bar a few, and even they probably realize that. As you get more perks unlocked they feel even worse to get so seeing trash perks up to 40+ doesn't feel good or rewarding. It's more like relief they're gone.
Easy fix is to make perks show up every 2 levels up to 30. Start with the base 3 teachables, then every 2 levels you get a perk. At 30 you get a teachable, at 32 you get another perk, then 35 another teachable, then 40 your final teachable. At this point you'd probably level another character to unlock their perks. There you have a meaningful grind that doesn't take thousands of hours to complete. It encourages people to grind, removes the fear/issues with grinding out prestige, and makes the game healthier as a whole.
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@Papamodzz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/644978#Comment_644978
I agree sooooooooo dam much
I did the math, if I got to recycle all the worthless stuff I don't use on survivors I'd have enough BP to fully P3, and max out a killer. We need this.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/645562#Comment_645562
Well, we won't know what will happen till something big comes out I suppose.
Sadly, I doubt it'll ever happen. They'll keep dropping excuses that are easily debunked about how the grind hurts x players, and this will fix everything. They know how grind the bad is, probably assume that's what keeps a lot of people playing. With a fixed grind though people would and could play more. Newer players wouldn't be so turned off either.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/645539#Comment_645539
Tbh, Legacy is just a placeholder, it could be anything, a "new legacy" even. BPs, or Auric Cells.
But yeah, the health of the game is more important than skins. I left for 2 months cause of the matchmaking personally, it was too long and overall a lot of things have changed since 2 months have passed... But is it enough for me to casually play again? Or even "competitively?" No... sadly no...
I mentioned that in my previous thread too. Any kind of compensation would be fine. Just fix the grind, Tier 1 perks. Recycler.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/645523#Comment_645523
Doesn't even need to be Legacy, it can be something else, you could call it anything you want. Legacy is just a place holder for it, what I should of said was an exclusive LIKE what 2016 got with Legacy.
I feel they'll eventually overhaul the blood-web again, since right now the grind to even get a full roster of P3-50s requires a lot of dedication, and time that people don't have.
Agreed. I proposed a fix that they themselves wanted to try a year ago or so.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/645495#Comment_645495
For Legacy, this goes back to my original point of the post. Its only for like, the newer roster to get it. Not every new Killer/Survivor that came out after 2016, it should only go to characters like Hag, Doctor, Feng, Ace, etc. Not for the "newest" Killers/Survivors like Jane, Jeff, The Legion, The Plague, they're too new to really even get a Legacy skin, let alone anything exclusive.
As for the overall grind, yes its unhealthy at this current time, that's why they should just overhaul it again like they did before, and if they're feeling generous, reward people who went through it. It could be Legacy skins like the last overhaul, or just BPs or Auric Cells.
Cause lets be honest, its kinda unfair to give people from 2016 something, but not give the next generation after "2017 - Early 2018" Something....
Don't get me wrong. I'd 100% rock legacy on my killers. I've P3'd them all. However, I'm willing to forego a compensation ala Legacy if they would just fix the grind. My proposed changes were Tier 1 perks, and a recycler. THAT would warrant enough of a change to give legacy or something else.
That I agree on, and what my original post was about. The response was no Tier 1 perks cuz, "Players would get all perks by level 14." on the survivor side. Which I retorted with my response and the whole spread the perks by 2 levels then.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/645474#Comment_645474
Lets be honest, if they actually did another huge overhaul like they did in 2016, than it would kinda be weird not to reward anyone who already went through the grind...
And even if that's not the case, I feel they probably don't want to do that so people won't ask for exactly what this scenario is about lmao. We'll most likely never seen another exclusive skin for the rest of DBDs life-span, and that doesn't really matter. But its kinda funny if they did another overhaul and DIDN'T give people some kinda of reward.
Maybe Legacy skins as a whole is a reward for people who endured the mountain of glitches and toxicity and it has nothing to do with the blood-web at all...
WHO KNOWS!
I understand that completely, but I'd forego a reward if I didn't have to drop a billion BP and thousands of hours into DBD to finish off all my killers/survivors. It's just not feasible and that's not right. There shouldn't be an "impossible grind" for those who want to achieve it. Difficult sure, but you're not doing challenges or anything special to prestige. It's just playing the game and grinding out bp.
There are many ways they could reward players that's not legacy. Give an Auric Cell bonus based on time/prestiges. Give a BP bonus back that goes over the cap to use when the webs change. If they wanted to do Legacy then announce it, but take a few months to slide it out and work on it so they're not rushed. The grind is not healthy, and hurts new players the most. This change only helps old players, and even then you're boned if the character you're leveling isn't 40+.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/645462#Comment_645462
Unless the perks and prestiges are handed to them, it will always be considered a "band-aid." If I no-life and play this games for 5 days straight, I can P3-50 any Killer/Survivor. The issue is, if you do it more casually, this could take weeks, or even a month before you actually P3-50 something.
Might I add, despite it sounding short within 5 days, 4 if i'm sweaty. Most people will see that and not realize that's literally non-stop match after match after match, it'll still take 10s of hundreds of hours...
How are you agreeing with them, and also debunking them in the same comment? Doing the math it would take you roughly 8 hours just to get to level 50 assuming PERFECT web eating and you only need 1.5mil to get to level 50, AND getting 32,000 every game. Even with offerings, you're not gonna do that, especially as a survivor. Even more so a new player.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/645436#Comment_645436
What is with all this "band-aid" bs, it literally cuts the grind in half at level 50, what is everyones problem, it doesn't matter what devs do because it gets called a "band aid" it's a pretty significant change that will make it easier for newer players to establish themselves with a decent set of perks without having to spend 100s of hours doing so, stop being so ridiculous.
Cuz that's all they do. They claim to listen to feedback, but they don't. They just shoot out a random fix that pretty much no one likes, and then make excuses for it. Then people like you try to butter up to them and act like they never do anything wrong. This "grind fix" doesn't help new players in the slightest and it barely helps old players. Here's a post where I did the math on the insane grind that DBD has, and why this is just a bandaid.
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6 for the survivors, and yea, it helps late game grind and that is nice. However, that doesn't help new players at all. They still have to grind out 19 survivors to level 40 to open up more perks for their pool. If they just start out they don't have the free perks from the other survivors. So 14 would equal about 42, but a bad/useless perk won't really make even a new player that happy. It actually starts to feel bad after awhile.
They still have to obtain those extra perks, meaning they're not getting new perks anyway so I'm not sure if that'd be a huge problem to just soak up some items. Not to mention a lot of people tend to stick to specific metas anyway. I've noticed the updates, but I still say tier 1 perks would solve a lot of the grind issues.
It's roughly 1.20~mil to get level 40, so 22,800,000 BP to unlock every teachable. Now imagine trying to get one to P3. That's another 4,500,000 BP just to get to P3 assuming you get perfect webs and only need 1.5mil to hit 50.
Now, you don't get perks every early level, but you do get more than og webs, but iirc there are still dead webs with no perks. So that wouldn't add to the overall perk total which is 57 teachables+15 open pool perks. That's 216 levels, per survivor. Assuming level 50 with a perk in EVERY web, which I'm pretty sure can't happen is 166 levels left. 50k~ to get a full web at 50. So if we go off new webs that's 83 levels needed, which is 4,150,000 BP to max out. 74,700,000 to max all survivors assuming they are level 50, and excluding the P3 grind.
This doesn't even cover if you want to prestige/max out killers. So, sorry but I don't see the new change as much of a fix to anything. Especially with the updates to make low tier perks nearly identical to their tier 3 counterpart. I'll be honest it seems like there is no actual desire to fix the grind and we're gonna be forced to just dredge along through awful perks to finally finish a build, and then even more grinding to say, "I maxed out x character(s)."
This fix doesn't even help new players. Easy fix to the, "No perks from 14-30." Change the way the perks show up. Every 2 levels you get a perk. Boom. Easy fix.
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So, no, you stop being ridiculous and thinking this random bandaid slapped on will somehow alleviate the grind. I don't even care about legacy, the grind is absurd and this fix is not a fix. It's just something flashy they can tack on so people are appeased and ignore how insanely bad and unhealthy for new players it is. To say this is somehow helpful for new players who have to unlock 19 survivors worth of perks, and 17 killers worth of perks is just a lie and I'm worried how many people are trying to use it as a legitimate argument.
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This hardly fixes anything, let alone enough for legacy. This isn't a fix. This is a wet, bloody, dirt covered band-aid.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/645175#Comment_645175
It is still HALF the current workload! That is basically the equivalent workload when there were only EIGHT killers available. That's about when I started playing. It wasn't nearly the grind then! If you bothered reading what I wrote at all then you'll see that I'm still in favor of reasonable changes to reduce it further as well. But I am excited about this change. It is a huge step in the right direction.
I read what you said, was just saying. Also, you only get half workload on 40+ killers, so not really HALF the workload. And this doesn't affect prestige either so. Hopefully we get more changes to actually fix the grind.
@Rydog said:
@Dreamnomad I agree with you, but I am also very aware that this is partially Stockholm syndrome talking. They gave us a less bad thing to replace the really bad thing, but it's still not GOOD.
This 100%. It's like tossing someone's ice cream in the dirt, and spraying it off with a hose. Yea it's clean, but it's still awful. (I'm tired and can't think of a better analogy.)
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@Dreamnomad said:
This really is a massive and welcome change. Having 4 perks to choose from and being able to acquire 2 per bloodweb is awesome. That cuts the workload in half! The next low hanging fruit that I would like to see them pick is to make it so when a character has all three of their teachable perks unlocked, the player can choose to toggle off one perk from showing up in the bloodweb. This will allow players some room to "unmuddy the waters" so to speak and reduce the long term penalty for short term decisions.
So for example, if I have every teachable perk unlocked on every killer, I would have the option to toggle one perk for each killer. That would be like 15 less perks showing up in my future bloodwebs that I'm not all that interested in. But after I've got all the available perks on all the killers and there are a few weeks before new content comes out, I could untoggle some perks to unlock on my favorite killer. Then when the new killer comes out, toggle those perks off again and increase the good perk likelyhood when grinding out the new killer. Does that make sense?
Did you read the math I put out? It's still 4.5mil and doesn't help new players in the slightest. You also still have 17 killers to grind out, 19 survivors, and still might not get the perks you want.
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@Rydog said:
@Caretaker God, I JUST posted in another thread to all these ME WANT PWEASENT people screaming for Legacy skins over this rework. Behaviour just needs to ignore those people and make the changes they need to make for the game's long-term health.
Obligatory reminder to anyone reading: The forum community and Discord community are not representative of the player base at large. We are aberrations, because we care deeply enough to be here to talk about this one specific game in such obsessive detail. Our feelings and opinions on this game inevitably tend toward the extremes. The majority of players are like, normal people. A better Bloodweb experience would broadly benefit everyone.
For this? No, this is 100% not a legacy worth rework of the bloodwebs. Now, all tier 1 perks? Sure, and my solution to that was simply don't rush it, give it to people in a year when you've got time. Make a legacy cosmetic DLC, that'd make bank. Give people a huge BP bonus that extends past the cap. Give people a massive chunk of Auric Cells for characters/skins.
I don't really care, I just want Tier 1 perks so I can finally max out all my killers, and actually consider maxing out a few survivors that I enjoy playing. Right now I am 100% focused on killers cuz there's just no way to do them all without pouring another 2-3k hours into the game. Tier 1 perks would be good for everyone, more manageable bloodwebs would greatly improve the health of the game.
No more 160 levels before you get that one perk you need to get to Tier 3.
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@Rydog said:
@Caretaker Yeah, I've also suggested a single-tier perk solution a few times, but they keep falling back on this "Oh but players would run out of perks to get" rationale. I think the whole Bloodweb system needs to be re-evaluated and reworked for the good of the game.
A recycler would be a great idea, too. I suspect they would be skittish about adding any kind of "anti gold sink" mechanic, though.
Funny enough back in the old days before they wiped Discord clean of anyone not a CM we had a big discussion about this. The main reason that got them turned off about this idea of tier 1 perks. Was cries for compensation aka Legacy. A lot of people were upset that they'd have wasted so much time grinding and kept bringing it up. Despite the vote being 54% for Tier 1 perks they deleted the channel, discussion, and never brought it up again.
This was about a year ago I think? Possibly 2? I do find it kinda hilarious they keep bringing up new players as the reasoning behind a lot of changes, but this game is extremely unhealthy for a new player. Horrible grind to catch up, matchmaking can dump a full loadout killer on you with hundreds if not thousands of hours.
My idea for recycler was 50% back, even event items can be recycled. I'd be fine with 25%, I'd even possibly buckle at 10% for extra BP. I wanna be able to just roulette all my killers, and have a couple survivors maxed out for when I wanna swap, but I can't do that. I'm 1800+ in with multiple events and still barely have 8 killers maxed, a max survivor, a few prestiges on them, and all my killers P3. This game's grind makes japanese MMOs look like a breeze. I've never seen a grind this bad before.
I imagine they're scared if they cut the grind people will stop playing, but if they were to address the grind properly through tier 1 perks, and other incentives people would actually play more. They wouldn't be scared to prestige, or use their items, or anything. This change just feels really knee jerk and I'm pretty sure they took it off one of the social medias as I've seen it quite a few times floating around.
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@Rydog said:
Having looked at the impact this will have on my ongoing killer perk libraries, I think it's going to be a pretty big improvement. I currently have 53 killer perks unlocked; under the current system I need to clear 90 more Bloodwebs to have my full inventory at tier 3 on Freddy. Once this change goes into effect, this will be cut in half, and I'll only need to clear 45 more Bloodwebs. That's a LOT more reasonable for a single killer.
The key issue is, this change only really helps players who are already knee-deep in the Bloodweb economy. New players still have no path to "really playing" -- that is, getting a selection of competitive perks on even a single survivor or killer without deeply leveling a bunch of characters.
This is why I think that it would be helpful to bring down the level threshold for unlocking teachable perks. If I'm a new player and I want to get, for example, Self-Care (Claudette level 40), Bond (Dwight level 30), and Sprint Burst (Meg level 35) because of advice I have received from players, I have to commit 105 levels across three characters. That's before I can even begin to evaluate whether I enjoy that particular combination.
Like I said, this change is going to be helpful -- specifically, for players like me, who are already in the trenches. But Behaviour needs to go further to make the grind less intimidating for new players.
That's why I say just make them a single tier. Getting them earlier is nice, but you still have to grind them out and get to 40 to access the new webs to even get extra perks. I have all killers P3, and for every single one I want to level up or try to get a build on this sadly won't help. Seeing as many of them are at level 1 this change won't even help me out and I'd say I'm pretty deep in the economy. +That's just one side. There's the 19 survivors to consider, and what 17 killers now?
Also a recycler would make prestiging not as bad, and would let you dump the offerings you'll never use, Haddnofun on killers? Who's gonna use that outside of a meme? There's a lot of fixes, but to say this is to help new players, or we can't do the tier 1s cuz it hurts them is a bit disingenuous.
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@malloymk said:
Yeah. When are you guys announcing changes to the grind?
They did announce it. At 40 you get 3 perks in the web, can grab 2. At 50 you get 4 perks per web, can grab 2.That's the fix.