Caretaker
Caretaker
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/708792#Comment_708792
When Entity Blockers and Bloodlust didn't exist, you would get infinite pallet looped with any killer not Nurse, so idk why you bring those in discussion.
The man mains Nurse, and can't play without Ruin, you can pretty much disregard what he has to say. Anyway, I'm off to bed, y'all have fun with the thread. Gonna go back to other threads. Thanks for those who got the point, and realize the game's really not ok.
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@PatchNoir said:
People like me use basement build to generate pressure because of that, gen time are fine at lowe ranks but when you take rank 8 less survivors you are destroyed, and ruin cant hold it.
Make gen speed different by ranking? like balancing gen time based on all the survivors ranks maybe can fix that
@PatchNoir said:
All you can do is use their altruism against them, put everyone in a certain area of the map,and break all the pallets there, you will get 4k with one gen left.
There mainly just needs to be a fun secondary objective that is mandatory to slow down the beginning of the game. Which is where a killer is weakest. End game is arguably the second worst time especially if not running NOED cuz you're just on an timer that's quickly draining the whole time.
You're 100% on the second post though. You basically have to snowball off over-altruism to really keep pressure up through constant hooking to keep them busy. Even then a single survivor can and will burn through some generators. I've had it happen. I was cycling and just re-hooking two, and the third survivor used that time to do gens on the other side of the map. Smart player.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/709898#Comment_709898
sorry for hurting your feelings bro <3
What a riveting response. 10/10, never seen someone call themselves an idiot in a more poetic manner. Sorry you're having a bad day bro. <3 Here, I'll give you a vote up so you can get a boost, hope your day gets better.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'm sorry being realistic, but I think you might not be the best legion. Everytime I play against this [s]AMAZING[/s] killer trials take like 3 hours. Also, they've done 3 gens close to each other, you totally could get them 3 gened, what would lead to a long as hell match, but would make them suffer, at least...
One, this was a single bad game that highlighted the issues with gen times, map design, etc. Two, a 3 gen has to be defensible. This wasn't. There was plenty of distance, and pallets near that I couldn't reliably 3 gen them. Let me guess, you heal against Legion and so do your teammates? If so, then you're not very good at facing Legions. If you want I'll post my 4ks and quad iris at rank 1.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/708835#Comment_708835
"You can't look at walls if there are none around and good Survivors made sure to get downed out in the open with their flashlight team mate nearby."
Surviviors aren't gonna flashlight save if you scare them off. Patrol the slug, fake it. Do something that ISN'T walk right into the save and the ######### about it.
"Entity blockers were introduced to stop infinite window loops. Those loops were absolutely impossible to mindgame. Wretched Shop used to have THREE open Windows right next to each other in the day. Mindgaming that does not work, since it's a fool-proof loop."
You not see where I said it exists on UNSAFE windows? Like TL walls? Ever mindgame a TL wall? It's easy. If a Survivior manages to get 3 good vaults off at a TL wall in 1 chase they should not be cut off from it. Period.
"Bloodlust a paradigm of a mechanic getting nothing but nerfed to bits, even since before it was implemented into the game."
You can be relevant whenever you want. I'll wait.
The existence of Bloodlust alone is an abomination. It was a lazy fix for strong loops. And now that we have maps like Hawkins and Badham, why does Bloodlust exist there? Start Removing it. It's not needed there.
"And the only ones in DbD's history to consistently get second-chance mechanics/Perks were Survivors. Period"
Those second chances were then gutted or are balanced. Decisive? Reworked. Mettle? LMAO. Deliverance? If you can't counter that sorry but ur bad. BT? Don't camp and be good enough to not need to.
How do Surviviors counter the Entity blocker on a TL wall? How do they counter Bloodlust at an already unsafe pallet? They don't, the killer just gets those for free for FAILING to catch a Survivior.
It's kinda ironic you're trying to downplay the creator of the DBD Wiki and pretending like what you're saying is in any way right. He outright proved why all your points are wrong, and then some, but you still refuse to admit you're wrong.
"Surviviors aren't gonna flashlight save if you scare them off. Patrol the slug, fake it. Do something that ISN'T walk right into the save and the ######### about it."
Scaring them off does a few things so let's break that down for you since you have trouble seeing anything outside of black and white. You chase them off, that gives the slug time to recover depending on how far you chased them/scared them. This assumes they don't have an exhaust perk ready to roll up and blind, or they didn't just run back in to bait you while letting the slug recover.
Patrolling the slug, or faking it can maybe get you a hit, but this also wastes some time cuz now two survivors are totally safe to work on gens, and you aren't gaining momentum. This also assumes you'll get a hit, and that a surv won't roll up and heal the slug and leave as you get baited. Doc didn't say he walked into a save, he pointed out how broken flashlights were, and why your parroted logic of, "LOOK AT WALL!" just doesn't always work like you all claim.
"You not see where I said it exists on UNSAFE windows? Like TL walls? Ever mindgame a TL wall? It's easy. If a Survivior manages to get 3 good vaults off at a TL wall in 1 chase they should not be cut off from it. Period."
So punish newer players, or newer killer players, and also, if you don't like Entity blockers, just don't use the unsafe windows? Wasn't that your logic about flashlights? "Just don't do it." I can do that too. Also, it takes 3 full vaults while in a chase to block the window regardless of distance, or time so you can really squeeze out time and keep that window open for awhile. The thing is there is A LOT MORE SAFE windows and structures than unsafe, and by your logic simply by using the unsafe structure they deserved to be hit, and downed.
"The existence of Bloodlust alone is an abomination. It was a lazy fix for strong loops. And now that we have maps like Hawkins and Badham, why does Bloodlust exist there? Start Removing it. It's not needed there."
See, the funny thing is most killers agree that bloodlust is trash, because it shouldn't be needed. The fact maps are so poorly designed that they needed to add this mechanic is insane. Either fix the maps, or you can keep dealing with bloodlust, that they have already nerfed multiple times. Also, the Badham maps are safer than ever. Hawkins has a few unsafe pallets, but most of them are totally safe if you know how to run or have Balanced Landing. Just using the portal room you can keep a killer busy for a few minutes due to the hyper safe window, the drops, the pallet, etc.
"Those second chances were then gutted or are balanced. Decisive? Reworked. Mettle? LMAO. Deliverance? If you can't counter that sorry but ur bad. BT? Don't camp and be good enough to not need to."
Decisive wasn't even nerfed, it was buffed, twice. I know you can't possibly see how DS was buffed cuz you somehow think Mettle was balanced, but I'll try. New DS meant no more penalty for multi-ds, didn't know who had it anymore, is a free win end-game, can't be missed, and basically creates a minute long bubble of safety. DS should turn off if I hook another survivor, and end-game. If I have time to down and hook another survivor, and you DS me? ######### that, I didn't tunnel you.
DS also got buffed a second time to 5s stun, got enduring nerfed, then wasn't even reverted back to 3s. Despite the reason for it being 5, being nerfed. Thanks Devs, guess only Pig can get consistency changes right?
Mettle was utterly broken, and should've never existed. It punished killers for playing the game. Not playing "unfair" and ignoring the Survivor Rulebook, no. Just playing the game gave you immunity to downs for a hit and a speed boost. If you honestly think Mettle was ok then your entire opinion can be discarded cuz it's worthless.
Deliverance? How do you counter it without hooking everyone before anyone is saved, or just hard camping the hook for a minute? Oh right, you don't. This is just a really stupid comment, and I don't know what you're trying to say.
Borrowed Time got buffed multiple times, and can be a free win end-game which is why people have issues with it. Also, makes saves totally safe if you choose to just bumrush the hook. You made a really bad play, but now the killer gets punished for it cuz it's unfair the survivor was bad? Where's the logic there?
Also, there are plenty more second chances then, DS, BT, Deliv, and Mettle. You've got exhaust perks, you've got insta heals, Adrenaline, Unbreakable, keys to just get out if the game's going poorly. Killers do not get these, I don't know what you're talking about.
The only one is maybe NOED and that's easily countered.
"How do Surviviors counter the Entity blocker on a TL wall? How do they counter Bloodlust at an already unsafe pallet? They don't, the killer just gets those for free for FAILING to catch a Survivior."
You don't, and you get hit, cuz as you said you played poorly and chose to play on an unsafe area. If I can't catch you without bloodlust on an unsafe pallet, then that pallet is pretty safe. 15s to gain bloodlust, that's a lot of time wasted for a single hit. May not even be a down. There's a reason why bloodlust is seen as a meme, only survivors seem to think it's strong. If map design wasn't so bad, we wouldn't need bloodlust.
As for your other comment, horrible perks? What, BBQ is bad? Pop isn't a gen stall perk? Agi/BS aren't stellar but that does the job. Sloppy wouldn't have slowed the game down, maybe CI, maybe Ruin, but if they were SWF and as good as they played they'd have done the gens anyway. Tru3 put up a vid of him losing 3 gens almost instantly through Ruin. Almost like Ruin is a meme.
I made a misplay but one chase = 3 gens is stupid, and really goes to show that you have no idea what balance or skill is. As for your final response about an ad hom. You literally insulted Doc in your reply then wanna try and act like you didn't do it first? Cute, and at least he was cordial.
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Little addition to my monster post that I'll edit, but still wanted to add here.
When you have to pop a box against Pig or break madness against Doc, moving resets your progress. Both of them have skillchecks as well. Pig's skillcheck fails drain a bit of progress and reveals your location iirc, Docs for sure drain all of your progression, and reveals your location. You also can't use items in T3 Madness. Deep Wounds you can just casually run away, sit in the TR and work on a gen, or hide, and then resume progress. Not to mention Pig's might not go off first box(Let's face it, it does most times, gg rng boxes), but it can also flat out kill a survivor.
All Deep Wounds is good for is buffing Borrowed Time at this point.
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@NoShinyPony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/706802#Comment_706802
Legion is not a delaying killer. Using his power prevents him from downing survivors. Without downing survivors, the killer is not applying pressure.
@LCGaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/706802#Comment_706802
So, I know that Legion's update should be only temporary waiting for their full rework
Honestly I'd rather be fast than run for longer
An acquaintance of mine did the math, if a survivor is 10 meters away all the have to do is to run in a straight line to not get hit
I know the power had to be changed, but it was definitely more fun before, unless of course one of those bs tacticts and add-ons got used
It's so nice to see intelligent people that see why this rework was just a huge nerf, and that these changes did not help at all. Bravo.
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So, let's look at Legion. Starting with a big thing people look for in case a character isn't to their liking. Perks.
Legion's unique perks are: Discordance, Mad Grit, Iron Maiden.
Discordance: Any time two or more Survivors are working on the same Generator, that Generator's Aura is highlighted in yellow for 8/10/12 seconds.
This perk is ok at best. Not bad, but not amazing either. It falls short due to the fact it makes a lot of noise which can be distracting and cover key sounds such as a drop grunt, footsteps, heavy breathing of an injured survivor, etc. On top of that if you're in a chase, you'll more than likely lose the gen regardless of if you drop it or not. It can help you quickly find survivors, and can help Legion's playstyle of wanting to keep multiple people injured.
Mad Grit: While carrying a Survivor, you suffer no cool-down on missed attacks and successfully hitting another Survivor will pause the carried Survivor's wiggle timer for 2/3/4 seconds.
Used purely in meme builds, and outclassed by Agitation(Which is free off Trapper), imo. Most people run this with Agi and Iron Grasp due to how funny it is to spam m1 and swing without cd. However, Agi gives more distance, faster speed, and that speed can get you a cheeky hit.
Iron Maiden:
You open Lockers 30/40/50 % faster.
Survivors who exit Lockers suffer from the Exposed
Status Effect for 15 seconds and their location is revealed for 3 seconds.
Only really used on Huntress for faster reload, but even then that's not really worth it. The exposed can be good for say, Cannibal, Hillbilly, Nurse, due to them often being locker juked. Otherwise and even then, pretty meh.
So overall, perks aren't really worth it.
Gameplay wise? 100% not worth it at all, especially due to how harshly he was nerfed, and I say that as a day 1 Legion main who didn't use Frank's or moonwalk. A stall killer, not really. It takes 15s, to mend, and if you were to hit multiple survivors yea, this could be helpful except for your fatigue. Let's assume you somehow get the drop and you have 4 clustered. Assuming you hit all 4, you'll have to fatigue which lasts 4s. By this time and after chasing down/hitting all 4 probably 2 have already mended and got back to work on gens.
You cannot use your power to down anyone, and now must chase them. If they're any good at looping you have nothing to help you get them and are subject to the plethora of pallets, and other poor map design issues such as double pallet spawns, hyper safe windows, and "infinites." Not to mention, when injured there's no real reason to use your power except for a bit of stall, that won't really matter much if there's no one to chain. Chaining also can be a detriment cuz it leaves the original to heal. Being injured isn't scary and this is why so many people bring Adrenawin and ignore healing to just do generators.
Legion's power comes with so many downsides it's unreal, anyone trying to say the "rework" was that and not just a huge nerf is lying. Don't care if they have _BHVR in their name either, they're lying.
Buffs: 115% ms, 50% gauge lost instead of 100%. (Why should you lose power at all?) Iri Pin doesn't require you to be in Killer Instinct to break pallets. Still meh, and the infinite TR makes it so you literally don't have to mend while they're in Feral Frenzy.
Neither: Longer Duration(Explained in nerfs.) Deep Wounds no longer drains in TR. Frank's made worthless. (I put these two in neither, cuz DW no longer draining in TR should've been baseline and needed to change. Frank's also needed a rework. More on it later.) Can no longer stab in FF to drain the Deep Wound Bar(Also needed, but could've been reworked.)
Pin addons changed, but still worthless.
Nerfs: Must wait for power gauge to fill before using power, 20s cd. Originally 15s to fill and could be used after 2-3s draining what little gauge you had.
All speed #s cut, which funny enough makes the longer duration worthless. As you go so slow, and vault so slow that often times on longer loops you can just outrun the Frenzy. If everyone stays separated it won't matter if you find them cuz you're now on a 20s cd and a generic m1 killer. You won't use your power if you hit them either, you're just wasting time and your power at that point. Old speed was also much more fun/felt better.
MASSIVE FOV CUT after power ends. This is a health hazard for some people too. I start to get a bad headache sometimes due to my screen randomly scrunching to a tiny black hole for literally no reason.
4s fatigue up from 3s, and both cd addons nerfed.
Can no longer see blood pools in Frenzy.
TR bumped to 32 from 24.
Missed attacks end Feral Frenzy. (This was done to avoid gaining extra distance by teching the swing. When survivors do it it's a fun, interesting mechanic the devs didn't expect, but a killer doing it is an exploit, and a problem.)
On top of all this, Legion's nerfs were used to buff Borrowed Time, not once, but twice. Making it all that more effective.
Old Legion was fun, and extremely effective if you played how you're currently forced to play which is Frenzy, tag, search, fatigue, m1 to down. Most players, even big streamers refused to play this way and would only play with Frank's/SWS, and moonwalked. All the while crying about how op/boring it was to play, while refusing to try and play any other way. While saying there was no other options. Which is just false.
Funny thing is Stab Wound Study has always been worthless aside from a single PTB where they claimed to fix Legion by making him broken with Frank's+SWS, the two addons people complained the most about. While injured Feral Frenzy would down in two hits. Which really showed the devs didn't really know what to do with Legion, or how to fix him. Which is actually super easy to do.
When you have to pop a box against Pig or break madness against Doc, moving resets your progress. Both of them have skillchecks as well. Pig's skillcheck fails drain a bit of progress and reveals your location iirc, Docs for sure drain all of your progression, and reveals your location. You also can't use items in T3 Madness. Deep Wounds you can just casually run away, sit in the TR and work on a gen, or hide, and then resume progress. Not to mention Pig's might not go off first box(Let's face it, it does most times, gg rng boxes), but it can also flat out kill a survivor.
All Deep Wounds is good for is buffing Borrowed Time at this point.
Here's a good fix to Legion:
Revert to the original Legion, keep 115% ms.
Add a bit more duration time, can be tested, even a few seconds would be nice.
Change Deep Wounds to cause a "mangled debuff" instead of downing a survivor. If the survivor mends, they suffer from a x% penalty to action speeds for x(30?)s. Failing to mend bumps it up to a minute. Numbers can obviously be tweaked. This adds stall, makes Deep Wounds actually do something, and incentivizes keeping people injured more than the current iteration which is, "Being hurt is scary." Cuz, it's just not.
This timer would start the second they mend or fail to mend. You could still even choose to multi-stab a survivor to force the debuff. 3 stabs to drain the bar. This way you'd still fatigue after stabbing a DW target and would have to decide if you wanna let your bar fill a bit and waste time to add the debuff or chase normally/find new targets. The timer starts, and drains immediately and cannot be reapplied until it wears off.
Addons: Pins now apply only when mended, healed from the dying state, or unhooked, and now apply on the first application of Deep Wounds. This would actually give the debuffs time to be effective instead of just forcing you to fatigue to add a debuff that's going to tick down on the hook and be utterly worthless.
Stab Wound Study: Each successful application of Deep Wounds grants you a stacking MS bonus until you fatigue. This encourages multi-stabbing, and keeping people injured while also being really fun.
Frank's Mix Tape: Only two stabs while in frenzy to add the "mangled debuff", and bumps the respective timers up by 10 for mend, 15s for failed to mend. (Could add a 1s to fatigue as well as this is more for stall than quick chases.)
Fuming Mix Tape: Feral Frenzy now has infinite duration when used outside of a chase. This is lost upon entering a chase, and is not continued with Killer Instinct. This would be a lot of fun to use, give really good map presence, help apply pressure, and gives Legion really good mobility, while not breaking their core.
I've never seen Legion as a "Stall" killer and those cookie cutter, generic, and boring, "Thana, Dying Light, Ruin, double blade" stall builds are just awful. I see Legion as more of a rush down character. Get in quick, do some damage, keep rolling with the punches. Always keep moving. The new Legion feels like a slug that just desperately wants to roll itself in salt to end its misery.
It's very obvious that Legion was knee-jerk nerfed based on crying from the community who never bothered to try anything different. Only two of those complaints were in any way valid. Moonwalking need to be addressed, and Frank's Mix Tape need to be as well. However, instead of fixing those issues, and addressing how bad his other addons were they just rolled out nerf, afte, nerf, after nerf. Even another nerf AFTER the PTB went live, CD addons.
Did you know the bonus speed addons didn't do anything prior to the change, and that's why they got changed as well? That's ok, BHVR probably didn't either. Usually the community figures things out and they scramble to make it seem like it was intentional, or a bug that they wait god knows how long to fix if it's not relevant to the survivor side. Poor Clown has 30+ bugs, and the year+ old grab bug is still not addressed, but this is Legion talk so.
BHVR, if you're reading this, actually talk to people who play these killers, and get meaningful feedback instead of just being arrogant and acting like you can do no wrong, or that you don't make mistakes. According to the statistics we got, Legion is the worst killer across all platforms, yet you still decided to utterly gut him and make him unbearable. We know you take ideas from the community, so please, consider mine. Consider slapping my Legion fix onto a PTB and let us test it out.
Talk to people who actually play these killers, and not random content creators, especially ones who openly state they HATE a killer, ie: Legion as many people did. There were a ton of us that played him without moonwalking, Frank's, who knew how powerful and fun double CD was. Hell I played him without addons, at rank 1, and still did fine and loved them. Even at 110, I could still get easy hits and it felt rewarding. I'm pretty sure I have the screenshots, and maybe even video to prove it.
Inb4, "Well I 4k at rank 1, and you're just stupid and not playing him right." I've got video of me 4king on the PTB, quad iri/perfecting when he hit live, and many games/screenshots of me doing after his nerf at rank 1 as well. You can do that as any killer at rank 1 if you keep at it. Legion is a broken mess, and I really hope BHVR listens, and gives us meaningful changes instead of Wraith 2.0. Multiple reworks, and still scraping the bottom of tier lists.
If you wanna chat with me, or other like-minded people and are tired of being told to just run Ruin, or x generic build, join my server: https://discord.gg/r4KTbua We'd be happy to have you. You can discuss things with us, learn a thing or two, or just hang out and chill with a great community. We've got popular streamers, and even the wiki creator himself. If you join the server, click the book, and you're good to go.
TL;DR: Old Legion was a lot of fun, people just played cheap and refused to play any other way or get better. They gutted/nerfed the hell out of them so no. New Legion isn't worth it at all. Save your money, buy Doc, or Pig if you want a "stall" killer. At least with them you get decent perks.
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No, he's not worth it. He's not good for stall, his perks aren't good, and the rework was a massive nerf, and nothing more. I'm currently rendering videos, and working on some other Legion stuff, and then I'll post a full reason why he's not worth it.
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@Bleediss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/701234#Comment_701234
Honestly, it seems like Ruin's biggest flaw is that it's a gamble perk because you're hoping that the following things don't happen:
- The totem gets found near the beginning of the match.
- The survivors are good and can power through Ruin, not missing the great skill checks often.
- The survivors get barely any skill checks in general.
- The survivors split across different gens instead of stacking, especially ones who aren't consistent in landing great skill checks.
- The survivors don't look for the totem across the map.
I've seen people running perks other than Ruin to potentially stall the game because of all these factors that can make Ruin very underwhelming, while other perks like PGTW and Surge are less of a gamble and reward for you being able to down someone (hopefully quickly), and keep the game rolling with regression to slow down the game a bit in your favor.
Corrupt Intervention I've also seen, as it's guaranteed and gives you less gens to patrol while also making it easier to apply pressure due to survivors being forced to go to certain parts of the map if they want to work on a generator. The con of it doing nothing after 2 minutes really doesn't seem that bad for the benefits it offers given that Ruin, an alternative, could just get cleansed within the first 20 seconds of the match.
I've played against CI, it's not scary. I either do a gen in an area with safe loops, or I just roam around the corrupt gens til they pop going for totems/chests so I'm not wasting my time.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/700379#Comment_700379
Real red rank killers have to try hard NOT to double pip against purple and green rank survivors. Most red killers can secure victory in 1 or 2 minutes against survivors at those ranks. A true red rank killer doesn't need to use perks or addons until maybe high purple or red. One month I did a perkless, addonless run to rank 1. Sooooo, all your pictures are pretty, but that's about it.
And I notice that the double pip bar on almost all of your pictures is in the pre-patch location. Nice use of old pictures! Literally every killer who is half-way decent could have a collection of screen shots like that...if I played long enough yesterday alone I could too...
Look, dude, I get the frustration. Playing killer is MUCH more stressful and frustrating than survivor. If you don't play well, if you don't prepare, if you don't make good choices, you can easily be overhwlemed. But that's how it NEEDS TO BE if the game wants to have any semblance of balance. Why should YOU, a killer who doesn't play optimally, be able to do well against survivors who are playing optimally. It literally makes 0 sense.
Good Killers make games longer by applying pressure, playing smart, and playing well. In that game you did none of those things and you got punished hard. You seem to think you shouldn't have been punished as hard as you were, but it seems about right to me. You don't need nurse with ruin to play well against good survivors. I know that goes against the victim mentality so many killer mains have, but it's true.
Your 2 biggest problems in that game were you did not play prepare for the game, and you did not play smart. That's enough to lose you a game. You want more time in a game when you play like that/play nice/don't play optimally? Too bad. Actual good Killers will take advantage of that extra time and 4k every game.
Ah yes, you lose cuz survivors were afk. My favorite mechanic of DBD. I didn't bring trash perks that the community covets despite them being medicore at best cuz if everyone didn't dryhump the meta, they might lose, gasp. I mean, they still lose, but who cares right? The game was slowed a wee bit so it's god tier right?
If the screenshots and videos don't say anything then move on. You refuse to listen, you constantly try to act superior and I'm honestly just done trying to convince you otherwise. I know how to play the game, you can't read, bye. You enjoy running Ruin every game and I'll keep 4king at red ranks and ignoring the meta people who think Ruin is a requirement instead of acknowledging a broken game.
Yes, you lose cuz survivors played semi-well. Real great logic. I'm done being nice, I'm sorry, I don't care anymore. You're just trying to be contrarian and you're bringing up absolutely ridiculous scenarios. Go watch Marth, the tourney, Scorpionz, the top killers in the game and they will lose a few games. It happens. I'm sorry, but if you're somehow getting quad iri against "good survivors" you're just lying and your point and arguments are simply moot as well.
"You don't need nurse with ruin to play well against good survivors. I know that goes against the victim mentality so many killer mains have, but it's true."
So, you're a survivor main? Makes sense if you are honestly. Only surv mains claim to 4k and never lose a match. Sorry I don't follow the community hivemind chief, but you keep pretending the game is fine and that game was winnable. I'll be off away from lala land and trying to get the game to an actually healthy state. Killers don't have a victim mentality they're tired of BHVR and the community brushing off broken perks, mechanics, and horrible map design as skill on the survivors part.
Good killers 4k every game? Dude, seriously, the lying needs to stop. At this point you're honestly just delusional. There is no killer that 4k's every single game. Especially against optimal survivors. I don't know what to tell you, but we're done here. I ######### started the game, found a survivor, and lost 3 ######### gens. There is no "smart play" no "optimal play". You camp/tunnel and you lose. That's the play. Learn to read.
What part of "RANK RESET" didn't come through? They're not ######### purple or green, or anything. They have full perk builds and thousands of hours. Reading comprehension, try it sometime, jesus. I'm done replying, gonna turn off notifs, I need a vacation from this or I'm gonna catch what you all have.
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@Karl_Childers said:
You can’t nerf gen speed/ add an objective to balance survivors around weaker killers though. All killers above mid-tier would need to be nerfed as well, and aside from killers probably screaming about that, it’s a lot of work to find the correct balance. It’s easier to just buff/rework the weak killers and work on maps then change the whole game.
Only 3-4 killers really excel at the moment, and even they got ruined. Mid-tier isn't even mid-tier cuz they're strong. They're there cuz they're just not trash tier. Survivors can bully anyone if they just focus on gens and squeeze out time. Just watch the first DBD tourney. Everyone played Nurse, and rarely got a kill, if any kills at all. Even that kill required hard camping. Y'all vastly overrate killer power.
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@malloymk said:
Yeah. There really needs to be an adjustable curve on gen speed based a variety of factors including map size, gens left, survivors left, etc. Finding the sweet spot would be difficult, but most games are won or lost within the first 2 minutes. This is the opposite of how games should work.
Exactly, and I'm not asking for survivors to get dumpstered and hard nerfed, or forced to work on gens for even longer. I would just like a healthy game extender for players like myself who like to cycle, play fair, get everyone points, and enjoy a match. 5 minutes, is not a match. 8 if you include EGC, but that's just camping the hook and defending it hoping they don't play it right and rip them off the hook if you had a bad game. I've had COD games last longer, and those are meant to be fast.
We've had a lot of great suggestions on ideas to fix the gen speed issues, and new secondary objectives which is nice. That's what I'm hoping for.
This is probably one of the most sensible posts so far. Thank you.
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@Predator3174PL said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/700379#Comment_700379
I understand the part with Ruin. But why using Agitation and Brutal strength on Legion then? There are much better perks for him and so unless you don't have Sloppy Butcher, Thana, M&A, Spirit Fury, or Enduring, why would you use these perks. Unless you did a meme build or wanted to test it out.
I've said this a few times. I like Agitation for bodyblocking/bringing survs close to gens for Pop if possible. It's also a comfort perk. Not meant to be crazy good or fix any issues, I just really like Agi. Same with Brutal. I just like being able to clear out pallets, break gens faster, especially with Pop if I'm low on the timer on a bigger map and might be running out soon. The build is mainly just for comfort, and because stall is boring. Agi has actually won me a few games cuz they didn't expect the bonus speed and I got a slug out of it + time to carry a survivor to a hook. (Mad Grit wouldn't help cuz the speed is why I got the hit, before anyone says MG>Agi.)
Not to mention no perk would've affected that game aside from CI, and even then not a guarantee I'd have won. Would it have gone better? Possible, depends on how the rng spawned the gens, but it was a coordinated team and I lost. Endfury is super easy to beat, Sloppy is a meme if they don't heal or have We'll Make It. Thana wouldn't help cuz one had a box, and I they kept healing together so it wouldn't have been much. M&A I've tried, but I just don't like it. People still bolt super early so I don't get much from it. Enduring is ok, but I still prefer BS, just personal preference.
And yea, I'm not even saying I did amazing that game, I pretty much checked out after the 3 gens popped, and my game started to act up. Felt like I was running in slow-mo and my sens was off for some reason. Prob cuz I haven't played Legion in a bit and forgot just how awful they feel now. I'll play more games tonight and probably do better after some warming up. I just wanted to show how fast you can basically get cornered and how how bad gen times are.
We need a second obj or something, cuz if a killer wants to extend the game, or be nice you risk just getting utterly stomped. I don't want to be that, "Just play Nurse with Ruin, and 8 other stall perks!!!" I much prefer snowballing, and playing around than just stopping the game. Though those stall perk don't do much and don't scare me, cuz I know the numbers, and how to deal with most of them.
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Y'all have the worst reading comprehension I have ever seen in my life, and are so delusional that I'm not sure how to respond to the recent posts cuz you're all completely wrong. I wasted too much time on the chase? What the ######### was I gonna do? See a survivor and go well guess I'll ignore her and go check the other gens? Also those quad iris for Freddy/Legion are pre-nerf/changes.
That demo game was addonless with Ci/Surge/MYC 1, and I got like no use out of 2 of those perks. I also have 1 achieve left before I'm 100%, again. "You clearly just don't know how to play the game."
Yup, you caught me. Trash, I just faked all these screenshots and games for the past 2-3 years. All of you parroting the same bullshit totally means you're correct yea? Also, Mochan you're so entitled and clearly biased towards survivor that I will always disregard what you have to say.
You get stuck at purple somehow with these killers being SO strong and good, while I lose a match or two due to poor map design/spawns/decisions and still burn through to rank 1. With my "suboptimal builds, and poor skills". I'm only 12 cuz I didn't play due to WoW classic, reset, and having a job. I could easily hit rank 1 tonight, or in a few days if I decided to sit down and play more than a daily or two.
None of you have listened at all. I showed you video proof of why this game is an utter mess. I explained in DETAIL how I could not have won that match writing out every scenario and why I'd still have lost. It's not a matter of skill at this point, or my build. Nothing would've saved those gens, save maybe CI, and even then why should I be forced to run specific perks to have a chance to play, or stop poor game design? That's assuming if CI worked, they weren't stupid. They knew how to spread out, and do gens effectively, they also dipped to gain distance as you should.
I hard tunneled the first Claud? That's tunneling? Who hurt you? Seriously what? "HE CHASED A SURVIVOR HE FOUND! TUNNELER!" If I'd left after not finding her she'd have just done the gen, and the other gens would've been at 70-80%. How is it that so many people play easy mode for this long but still somehow think surviving and afking on a gen is hard? If you get chased you just run to a pallet. You don't even need to loop.
The fact you all covet Ruin is hilarious, and there's a reason I dropped it a year or so ago. If you can play without Ruin and keep pressure, you'll do better when you lose your totem immediately. "Oh no, they wasted 14-20s blowing a totem while 2 other people worked on gens." How helpful. Ruin only works on bad players, sorry to break it to anyone who had to hear that.
I don't need advice, I literally got home and quad iri'd on near perkless, addonless, Demo. Someone that most people seem to be saying isn't exactly top tier. I've lost two survivor games and that was due to a hard tunneling Legion that just camped the hook, and I wanted to get unhooks for my daily. Same as the second loss. Found hatch, wanted to unhook for daily, went down and teammates died. Survivor isn't hard, there are just a lot of bad players. When survivors make mistakes, you get snowball. That simple.
Note: Just cuz I'm rank 12, doesn't mean they are too. Rank reset is a thing. That's why you see people at rank 15~ with full perk builds from multiple survivors and killers. Let's use our heads, come now.
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I know how to play killer, again. I don't know what else to say. Congrats you never get coordinated squads?
If winnable is getting a kill, sure you can possibly win, but there are plenty of games that are unwinnable. If survivors aren't complete potatoes and actually try they will leave. I highly doubt you've won every single match, or never had a 4k escape. So yea, you can't win every game, and Ill fight you on that. I've seen some of the top players get utterly destroyed and that's with them running Ruin, and the usual slowdown perks.
Also, the Wraith was decent, and he did have time, you just underestimate how little time you have in a game and how fast gens go. The totems were super close, and every survivor has 2 hooks before death. He cycled through hooks, never found or chased me, the other survivors obviously ran him a bit before going down. There was a chain of downs near the end, but he pushed us out, the last survivor not hooked saved, ran for the exit and last guy got hatch.
The only way he might've done better was to just hard tunnel people off the hooks, or camp. Which I assume he didn't want to, cuz that's just boring for both parties.
I just can't take you seriously if you say you win every match, which is what that sounds like.
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Survivor: No Mither
Killer: Agitation
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/699358#Comment_699358
I also like playing that way - getting 12 hooks by the end of the game, squeezing every bloodpoint out of the survivors. But doing that against survivors who know how to play - do gens and get out - simply isn't reasonable. Give them an inch, they take a mile. When I'm survivor I rush gens HARD. Why? Because if you play solo against a killer playing optimally, it's a race against the clock between how fast all the potato survivors you meet in solo can be knocked down, and how well the killer is playing. And if that killer decides he wants to patrol his hook, and intercept survivors going for the save? Suddenly you don't have as much time as you think you do as survivor.
It's a vicious circle. As survivor I go HARD on gens. Why? Because you never know how the killer is going to play. As killer if they are only sitting on gens, you have to create your own pressure by forcing them to make a save.
At red ranks against good survivors who are doing their objective you don't have time to cycle hooks. It's admirable that you decide to not play optimally so the survivors in your games can have fun, but if I was survivor and I was against you I wouldn't go easy on you because you want to get all 12 hooks. I would call you greedy for thinking you can get away with playing like that against good survivors, and then run out the gate..
Know what I call a killer (who isn't nurse) not using ruin or addons? An easy win. I regularly hit greats. I don't go looking for ruin. I just power through it, and yet I still have ruin on all my killers. Why? Because it adds up. Every second adds up. It can mean the difference between the Gen being completed, and the killer getting there in time to do a pop goes the wheel, or defend it, etc.
I do enjoy playing addon-less from time to time when I want a challenge, but I certainly don't expect to get all 12 hooks and win every game when playing like that.
I don't EXPECT to win. I TRY to win. That game was at rank 13. Not red ranks, rank 13, and my gens got rushed that fast. I had no control over the game, and as the devs put it, "It is the killer's trial." Yet I had no power to win that match. I don't like using addons, cuz I like playing just the base killer. Rarely I'll slap some on to screw around or test something to see how it works, but otherwise I like to play base, only perks.
But against a survivor like you, that means Ruin isn't doing anything. It just stops skill checks extra progression assuming you hit a great, which is what? 2%? Now imagine all 4 hitting greats, or 3 more realistically. If Ruin doesn't blow immediately.
I had a game earlier. Wraith had Ruin, and a few stall perks. He was bouncing around hooking everyone. Using Small Game I found Ruin super late. Once Ruin popped I just did the gens, and we all got out. There was nothing he could do. Didn't have NOED, and I popped the totems. He was keeping up pressure, but I pressured harder by staying safe, and just focusing gens. I wasted so much time and he was pinging ponging hooks, but even screwing around I had time to do 5 totems, and 5 gens before he could kill anyone. Even basement hooking and putting down pressure.
I had a game against a Plague where I let someone almost hit stage 2 to get a gen done, still had time to run out and grab her. Only reason I died was a stupid play to finish a daily, and teammates that healed immediately after getting sick. I could've played immersed, I found the hatch, it was a free win for me even though I only had Mettle. I was safe that entire game. Even on Thompson which has a lot of open area for Plague to work with, especially with Corrupt.
Good survivors will not let you play the game. Unless you can swing some pressure through altruism, or they make some really stupid plays, or get cocky, they're getting out. Playing against potatoes isn't a good judge of how powerful a killer is or how good they are as a player. If I see the killer patrol, I just do gens. That's 3 minutes, I can do at minimum 2 gens while they struggle/my team tries to unhook. They probably will unhook too, which means I can afk on another gen while they go down. There's a reason I really enjoy running No Mither in my main build.
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@Blackowt_9120 said:
Man, I don’t want to sound like a prick because i am legitimately trying to help you, but a fair amount of it does come down to personal skill. If you can’t down someone in the amount of time it takes for one survivor to unhook another, heal them, and finish two gens with the survivor they spent extra time healing you’ve already lost because of you. Youre spending way to much time chasing and need to work on routes, mindgaming, moonwalking, and recognizing when you’re being taken for a jog in the fog and to just stop.
Chief. Tell me how the ######### I was supposed to finish that chase, and get those 3 off the gen. Please. You're clearly not listening, and honestly I don't know what you're all on. I found a surv, downed them, and by the time I got them on the hook 3 gens popped cuz the game is super easy, and there's no stopping coordinated survivors who just do the gens.
They had WMI, and double healed most of the time meaning it took a few seconds. I don't know what kind of god you are, but you're double hitting, and hooking within seconds? Please teach me that trick, cuz in my almost 1900 hours and multiple 4ks, I've never just found a survivor and immediately downed them, then immediately downed another after leaving the hook unless they are utterly inept or new.
I don't need help. How many times do I have to say this? You're all obsessing over my personal skill and experience with Legion, and it's clear you're not actually on-topic or listening. I've 4kd as Legion at rank 1 many times. Even quad irid and had perfect games. I was showing how ridiculous gen speeds are and how a game can go south instantly. I have 100% the game, about to 100% it again. I have quad iri'd every killer and survivor.
I've been rank 1 for years. I AM NOT ASKING FOR ADVICE CUZ I DON'T NEED IT. Maybe if y'all read the thread you'd realize that. Hell I played the current Legion playstyle when he was 110 and still got perfect games at rank 1. Sorry if I'm coming off as rude, but like. I've said this so many times it's kinda getting annoying.
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@Omans said:
If that's playing optimally to you, I don't know what else to say. Do you really think you should be able to make many mistakes as the '1' in a 1v4 game, and still win against survivors who play well? I already explained everything in my previous post.
Every advantage you can get as killer will help you, and can be the difference between a 4k and a 0k. You don't want to use addons? You don't want to use "meta" perks? You use a lower tier killer? It takes you 3 gens to find and down one survivor? All those things add up, and suddenly your chances of winning are much lower. That's how it is, buddy. Don't like it? Equip addons. Equip perks that will defend against how you lost that game (hello, ruin?). Use a stronger killer next time you see those survivors. Don't think that you can win just on skill alone?
I am a rank 1 killer every month, under a week into the rank reset, every time. I can't even remember the last time I had three gens gone before my first chase was finished. But hey, I play optimally. The thing is, you severely underestimated the survivors, and got punished for it.
As for maps - yes, I agree. That is the biggest balance problem in the game right now. Fix the maps and this game will become 10x more balanced.
Playing optimally to me, how I like to have fun is cycling hooks. 2 hooks each before I kill anyone, only kill if I need the pressure. Don't tunnel, don't camp, unless end-game/necessary. I want the survivors to feel like they have a chance to play, cuz I sure as hell don't like it when I don't get to play either. It's infuriating for both sides, so I try to avoid being that killer. I want people to get points, and I want to get as close to 32k as possible.
The problem is we don't get advantages. The only advantage we have is if they act overly altruistic? Maybe a BBQ proc for a hint of where to go? You act like 80s is a lot of time. It's really not. I went to a gen, saw it was worked on, kicked it and knew a surv was near. Even if I had left I'd have lost those 3 gens, possibly a 4th cuz now Claud is safe to work on that gen.
Guess what, played Demo on Thompson House. 4k quad iri with MYC/CI/Surge 1, no addons. I got very little if no use out of CI/Surge. Altruism and cycling hooks won me that match, simply put they made a lot of mistakes. I lost 2 gens SUPER fast too and that was after 3 successful chases that were done very quickly. It's not hard to get to rank 1, I'm sorry.
I didn't underestimate anything, the game is just a broken mess. I don't know what to tell you? That game was an insta-loss. I had no chance of winning. You're lying if you think I could've done anything different. I've explained the time needed, the different choices I could've made. It points to me losing every time. Great you guys are optimistic, but it's not realistic.
I do agree on maps. They are the biggest source of imbalance in the game atm.
Also before anyone says it again. I don't want free wins, or easy games. I want to actually be able to play and not ruin someone's game cuz I need pressure. I don't think that's asking for much.
Also, I'm about to 100% the game for like the 5th time? I've quad iri'd literally everything in the game as well. Survivor+all killers including Demo. I'm just missing hatch closing, 25 left and I'm back to 100%.
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@Blackowt_9120 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/699288#Comment_699288
After you hook you know which gen to make a beeline for. That’s map pressure. Maybe you find someone, maybe you don’t, but you’ve still stopped the progress of all the generators. If you’re running pop, you know where to use it. 16s rarely saves a match, but doing that 10 times in a match is 160s. So nearly 3 minutes of safe or prioritized gens If you’re using pgtw efficiently you can create way more time than that. I would guess closer to 8 minutes.
Now, assuming you do run into a survivor off of tt, which is a fair chance, you get a chase-during that time another survivor saves who is hooked, meaning that only one person is capable of doing a gen during that 16s-1m because you have tied up 3 of them. If you down the survivor you are chasing, you know where that single Guy working on a generator is, and you know what to pop. You’ve just created a good amount of map pressure, you’ve extended the game, and you’ve put the survivors in a reactive rather than proactive position, meaning you’re in control while they recover, and you can force them to be in recovery for the entire game. Add ruin and bbq into that and that’s what I run. I expect ruin not to last long, but it usually lasts long enough to get 3-4 hooks on average. Other times they break It 5 second in, other times I’ve already killed two people
Ok, counter-point. The gen glows yellow, and as you go to it, it goes off anyway. You also see multiple yellow gens cuz they're not stupid and they're spreading out as they should and burning through the gens as you should do.
Going off your scenario. The other guy is now probably unhooked, and healed, and/or on a gen with either someone else, or they split and now you have 2 people on gens while chasing. Meaning you knocked out 1 out of 3 lives for one survivor, and could possibly lose gens to chase another.
Now, if they choose altruism/over gens and you can snowball hooks then sure. Yea, it could help, but even perks won't help that cuz proper play/good chases will net you plenty of pressure from them panicking and trying to save. Just had a game as Demo with pretty meh perks. MYC/CI/Surge 1. Just prestiged him. CI hepled me find one person. Downed her, went to a gen which was almost done, downed him. Got good portal placement. Hooked, found another, downed, surge broke 2 gens. Cool. Hooked him, the gen that got surged above popped and the original CI gen popped.
Well #########. CI ran off quite a bit ago, surge is on CD and only stopped 1 gen really, so that's basically 2 perks down. Now I got MYC. Which I did get fair use out of using my portals, so I gotta say I really like it on him. Helps with snowball if you get lucky. Didn't always find my MYC target, but it did net me a few downs.
So, all in all the perks didn't slow the game down, and I was playing an arguably better killer on Thompson House, so a bit more room to move around and chase. Altruism won me that game. That's all it was. I played my chases well, but had they focused on the gens, I'd have maybe got a kill, possibly two? Which in my eyes is a win since I cycle out hooks. That'd been fine with me.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/699274#Comment_699274
The devs aren't touching gen speeds bc they like where they are at.
As I've said and you've kinda failed to dispute there's a wide range of anti gen perks you can run. CI prevents Surviviors from being able to pop the gen they spawn at on the off chance you search the wrong gen in the beginning and it forces them to approach you if they want to start the game off on a high note. Surge combined with Surveillance allows you to spot nearby Surviviors and hinder their repair speed. Tremors is an amazing tracking and stalling perk especially with Surge combod with it.
Ur only real argument you can give me here is ur one against Ruin and it's all this virtue signalling "I'm not gonna be a metaslave and you can't make me" BS. Blah blah blah. You don't wanna run Ruin we get it. Something about not wanting to metaslave or something like that.
And I used the killer rulebook analogy bc it's pretty hilarious how many times killers go out of their way to get pissed with Surviviors for doing stuff and act like camping or Tunnelling is supposed to be a form of penance for breaking their made up rules. I mean imagine thinking Decisive strike isn't balanced. Oh wait...
"DS, cuz that's a fair and balanced perk too".
I'm told Noed is balanced bc it has counterplay. DS has counterplay too, so by that logic it's balanced. So....shut up.
Aw it's mad. Past your bedtime? Need a nap chief?
Imagine thinking a free 4s stun for a minute after getting unhooked is fair. Especially end-game where you literally get to win for free. Or getting DS'd after you hook other people cuz you clearly tunneled them.
You keep throwing out words, but all I hear is, "I can't refute you so I'm gonna keep spouting the same crap cuz I wanna be right." How about we agree to disagree and move on?
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/699194#Comment_699194
If devs wanted 15 second chases they wouldn't be changing nurse. Imagine thinking 15 second chases on average would be balanced. A good killer would win basically every game if that were the case.
You seem very much to want to be assured that there was nothing you could have done in that game. Sorry to say, but every choice you made that game ended up being the wrong one. Sometimes it happens.
If you are doing these things as killer - no addons, taking long chases, strange perks, lower tier killer - and not playing optimally, why should you win or even tie? Should you 4k against survivors who play their role well?
You are right about how bad some maps are, though!
They're changing her addons, this doesn't even make sense in that context. Why do you think emblems cash points every 15s? Why do you think bloodlust kicks in after 15s? And I yea, what was my mistake other than spending too much time on Claud? Even then I'd have lost the 3 gens?
What long chase? The chase with Claud was over super fast. So was the other chases. I don't like addons cuz most are trash anyway, especially his. Strange perks? How are they strange? Cuz I dont dryhump the meta build that everyone screeches you must follow? Low tier killer sure. I was playing optimally outside of a bad Frenzy.
Should survivors get to win cuz they happened to spawn and get a good map and 40 second chance perks? What even is that sentence? You should be able to go toe to toe not be destroyed cuz of a simple mistake, or a bad spawn.
Most if not all maps are just trash.
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@Blackowt_9120 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/699079#Comment_699079
Pay attention to the cooldown and you can essentially guarantee that survivors can only do gens 25% of the time. It’s great because it’s stall and tracking, which means it slows their time and speeds yours up, so you get a double return for one perk slot. combined with pgtw it can turn a 5 minute genrush into a fifteen minute game. But it’s perfectly fine on its own.
Ok, and when they're on the gens? What do you do then? It's 16s, that's not exactly gonna save the match.
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It was literally a minute into the game. Nothing would've changed. At this point you're just TRYING to be contrarian.
Also, why are those the 3 safest? If they're on the same side/closet on that side you pretty much showed them how to avoid 3 genning themselves, so sure, you really did a good job. Clearly why I see CI run SO often right?
16s of regression? Is 4%. It's .25% regression or a 1/4 rate. Congrats, you dropped roughly 10s off a gen. You did such a good job. Also, if surge knocks someone of a gen they can literally immediately tap it and stop the regression. Really powerful stuff that Surge. Just run Surv, you'll see it glow, and the surv will run away from the gen so Surge won't even work on it. 10/10 will try that next game.
"Killer rulebook for Surviviors page #456 paragraph 2C clause 6 subsection 982: any Survivior who is working on a generator when the killer approaches is to stay on the generator so the killer can pull them off. If they do not do this then they must bc Tunnelled off hook and facecamped. Okay now I see the confusion. Moving on."
Uh, you feeling ok there bud? Maybe get outside, find a hobby, something. That's just a whole lot of gibberish and projection, or SOMETHING, but you do you. You run Ruin cuz the meta tells you to and you wouldn't stray from it if someone paid you to. I 4k without Ruin, and have plenty of 4ks with just pop if any stall perks at all. Clearly you're the superior player here though. My 100% doesn't mean #########, nor do my quad iris or anything. Guess I gotta delete all my footage since it doesn't have Ruin. All staged, and fake.
Everyone runs BBQ cuz the grind is ass. That's something called false equivalence, look it up champ. They don't give us anything to truly stall the game, and even said multiple times they avoid stall perks, but they keep just pinching off these crappy perks that don't change the meta in any way, cuz they're bad.
This was a loss, plain and simple. I made mistakes, but they didn't really make any so I just lost with 0 chance outside of hard camping or tunneling which risks DS, cuz that's a fair and balanced perk too. We have all these perks, but for the past 2 years people have begged for second objectives and a real answer to the gen speeds, but sure the devs are giving us options.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/699076#Comment_699076
The time they spend looking for Ruin is the time they spend off of generators. Which buys YOU time. No person will hit 100% great skill checks and most people play around ruin by stopping for 5 seconds after hitting a skill check to make sure the gen doesn't lose any more progress from another skill check popping up (watch Tru3 play Survivior and you'll see if he doesn't hit the great he will hop off the gen for a few seconds). And let's say you still refuse to run Ruin bc you think it having counterplay is such a bad thing. Corrupt intervention gives you a promised 3 gens not getting work done, meaning you can go to a gen far from you, be wrong about them being there, and they won't be able to pop a corner gen in the time it takes you to find them. It's amazing. Or there is thrilling tremors which allows you to block gens by picking someone up and if a gen isn't blocked well ######### man, now you know where to go next and you didn't even need BBQ. Or there's Discordance so you can tell when minimum half their team is working on a generator so maybe you can stop chasing the runner and, oh idk, go apply map pressure. Or there's overcharge which isn't consistent but can catch a few people off guard. Or there is the new Surge which does apply the passive on Surveillance so you know if someone is near and on a gen!
You have a cacophony of perks at your disposal to help slow down and defend generators. The fact that you refuse to run any and all of them in favor of Agitation and Brutal strength is where you are struggling. Also
"The fact you can't play with, didn't read what I said, and think Ruin does anything is very telling."
At least I know to run gen defense perks. And look at that I'm not on the forums whining about gens getting done too fast. I'll admit they do, but at least I'm actively trying to do something about it when I play.
That's assuming they don't SPAWN on Ruin which I have done multiple games. Or that they even bother wasting time to search for it. Also, I don't play survivor much and guess what I rarely miss? Great skill checks. They're not hard to hit. It's an extremely easy rhythm to match. I'm aware of how Ruin works and stopping to work when someone messes up. I've also worked on gens with no skillchecks, so Ruin was SUPER helpful let me tell ya.
CI is 3 gens, but doesn't guarantee anything. Just means those gens won't pop. Doesn't mean closer gens or farther off gens will be done. I have tried Corrupt, it didn't change anything. Why do you think no one runs this perk? If it's so good why isn't anyone dropping Ruin for it? Thrilling is tracking, I don't have issues with tracking. Discordance I don't run cuz I don't like hearing BOOM BOOM BOOM. Not to mention you won't always be free to drop a chase, or just run to that gen. What if it's across the map? Now you get annoyed, no sound, and a gen pops, nice.
Apply map pressure how? Especially when I'm in a chase, and they're not incompetent and know to focus gens? Enlighten me. Surge is just awful. 8% is laughable and the range rarely gets more than 2 gens if you're lucky to get one at all. Surv requires me to still travel back to the gen. If I'm not in a chase, sure I can go check, if not then oh well at least my gen is glowing?
out why those perks are unreliable and don't do much of anything?
"The fact you can't play with, didn't read what I said, and think Ruin does anything is very telling."
Yea, you're doing something. Being complacent and running the same generic perks that every killer does, yet still getting rushed. Despite parroting the, "JUST DO X". You're really helping there champ. I post video showing a problem, and you're response is, "Ruin." When even survivors make fun of how bad the perk is, there's a problem. There's a reason Monto memes on it.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/699131#Comment_699131
Sometimes you can't apply pressure because your killer simply doesn't allow it. However, I feel like that's a killer problem more than a generator problem.
Overall, let's try getting all killers a level playing ground, then we can try something at the beginning of the Trial that slows generators! :)
The big thing is map size, layout, tiles, and well gen speeds and chases in general. Devs said chases should last 15s, that's why the emblems work the way they do. However, there's just no way anyone competent is getting downed that fast.
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@MysticAdvisor said:
Honestly gens either need to be adjusted in some way or extra objectives should be added.
I don’t care which one comes first but something has to give this is getting out of hand.
Sad thing is bringing this up is often times met with, "Run x." or "Just apply pressure." There needs to be something. They keep adding more to make solo more tolerable, but you can't just make a bad or new player good at the game. Apparently we're getting a passover once they feel solo is in a good spot, so sadly this is the game for a long time.
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@Blackowt_9120 said:
If you don’t want to run ruin for whatever silly reason, give thrilling tremors a go
I've tried that, Thrilling is more tracking than stall.
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@DonnieTheZombie said:
holy ######### that wasnt even a long chase. They had 3 done in a minute and a half. Thats wild my man.
That's what I'm saying. Yea, I took a bit long to find her, but this is the initial part of the game. I was screwed before I even started just cuz I chose the wrong gen to go for, and they happened to spawn, and know what they're doing.
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@PickCollins said:
Well yeah ur getting rushed. Ur giving a BS reason to not run Ruin and ur running Agi and Brutal, 2 perks Legion doesn't need or make any good use of.
Throw them out. Pull up your big boy pants and use ruin, run Thanatophobia to gut their action speed if they don't heal, and run something like Sloppy Butcher. There ya go. Now they're going to be neutered as far as repair speeds go.
Ur complaining about an issue but it doesn't even seem like ur trying to make the best out of the situation. There are a large number of killer perks to help defend generators. The fact that you don't use them is very very telling.
The fact you can't play with, didn't read what I said, and think Ruin does anything is very telling.
What can I use? Pop? Gotta actually hook/hit gens so, that's not gonna work. Ruin? Blows up in 20s, or they just hit the skillchecks. Shocker, survivors can hit greats, who knew? Corrupt? Just hide, or do other gens. You can still loop while gens are worked on. Thana? Requires me to hit survivors, and I wouldn't have gotten 4 injured that fast, nor would 15% save the game. Dying Light? Crashes the game requires hooks which I didn't get. Thrilling? That's more tracking than stall cuz they can still work on gens.
There isn't any really good stall perk in the game. None of them are remotely reliable. BS is good for clearing out pallets and Agi is good for body blocking. Let me guess, Thana/Sloppy Legion? If so, I think I'll stick to my build and avoid the generic Legion players who probably only used Frank's pre-nerf.
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@Thasard said:
Why did you go into frenzy when you just could have gotten the first hit without, especially since you didn't even bother to find anyone else to apply pressure.
Also, you spent way too long trying to find an immerse Claudette, checking lockers, etc. Hit the gen and move on.
And there are plenty of gen slowdown / gen abuse perks that you can slow the game down some. And like someone above said, once a few gens are done the killer can have more power and gen control and still get a 4k. But when I see a killer doesn't have Ruin, he better be amazing at that killer or he is going to be bullied.
Again, I mentioned this earlier. I hit Frenzy to find people. I didn't, so I did the most logical thing, I ended it with a pallet, and chased. If I hit the gen and moved on I'd probably have still lost 2-3 gens anyway, and they'd have an even more safe group of gens to knock out.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696326#Comment_696326
You mean your skill as killer don't matters at all? Yep, one of the biggest problems with 90% of the killers in DBD.
100% this.
@Mtom912 said:
You’re using legion a low tier killer, with no ruin what exactly do you expect, or no gen pressure perks except pop which relies on fast downs which legion does not excel at
It wouldn't matter who I was. I would've lost those gens.
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@Poochkips said:
You can always run the plagues ability. People consider it extremely low tier though due to it being useless for the rest of the game. It heavily limits the gens they can do though. I've recently tried Corrupt intervention, Ruin, Discordance, and Pop goes the weasel. So far it's doing pretty good. We have all these perks to really help figure out who's doing what. Sure they can work through ruin, but it definitely hinders people. Sucks that it's mandatory in the later ends of things, but eh, the game isn't balanced around SWF. Unless these players were all randoms, idek. Even still, I usually find people before Corrupt intervention goes away.
Corrupt Intervention, and I have tried it before. People just hid from me, or did gens that were open while I was busy chasing. Then they know they can avoid a 3-gen as well by not doing too many away from that cluster.
@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696636#Comment_696636
I was saying if you had hit the one person, you could have hit all 3, they were all nearby. It could have been really great for you. I don't think it was something to downplay.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696643#Comment_696643
I disagree. I mean yes, if you are better at loops than the killer, sure, but True has gone against some really damn good survivors as Legion and 4ked consistently, and I'm sure he doesn't think Legion is a dumpsterfire. One game he even used perks that countered themselves.
I might've been able to hit them. It all depends on how they ran it. I also would've had to wait 20s, as it has a 20s cd. That's after the 4 second fatigue. Could, but in more likelihood I would've hit 1 and wasted time going for others.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696651#Comment_696651
However, just keep in mind that no one is perfect, so one shot downs are scaled depending on your skill and consistency.
I watch Zubatlel and he's an excellent survivor, but he still make mistakes. Human error is something we will all run into at some point, and that's probably why people cleanse or heal because we know we will mess up eventually. :)
Overall, if you're not confident, heal or play it very safe, but otherwise, who cares if you're a one shot?
This is why I enjoy No Mither. If you can consistently survive and hide with it, you can do that much better when not running it. It's super helpful.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696534#Comment_696534
Actually, if you're really good at running loops, being a one shot down shouldn't be a problem to you. The only time being a one shot down is a problem is when you think you're going to get hit by the killer.
All in all, great survivors don't need to heal when they can run loops so good that the killer can't get a hit in. :)
THANK YOU! So many people even the devs act like one-shot downs are scary, and they're really not unless it's like Nurse with MYC, or if you're in a deadzone.
@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696509#Comment_696509
@Caretaker My bad, I don’t play Legion much and I didn’t know his Frenzy had a radius limit.
For me personally, I think gens as fine, what I think needs to change is killer abilities. Legion already needs a rework IMO, he isn’t excelling at which is he all about... Running.
I said this in another post and I’ll say it again.. change his Frenzy to be used to gain distance and at the end of his Frenzy give him an ambush attack that gives deep wounds from which survivors have to find special bandages to get patched up. To balance it out, only allow Frenzy to be used while not in a chase. In essence this does 2 things... gives Legion more versatility but also gives survivors “things to do” that aren’t “hold M1 for x seconds”.
Think if Legion worked like Hillbilly (getting from one place to another) but without the insta down, instead he would feel more agile and fast.
No worries. It has a limit of 32, I think you can extend it with your TR with Distressing and other perks. You can also make it unlimited with an UR addon. I've actually written up a fix to Legion that keeps him in-line, keeps the m1 playstyle, and lets him have mobility, power, and stall while removing the moonwalking/frank's. I'll post it below, it's obviously subject to change, but this was something I wrote up real fast that I felt could work while keeping his initial uniqueness, but also remove what made him feel unfun.
Also, anyone who claims they know Legion, but didn't play how he is now when he was 110, I disregard. So many people only played with Frank's, and moonwalked, while refusing to try to m1 and act like this new Legion has a new playstyle. Nah, you could do it effectively at 110 and while it was harder, it was a lot of fun.
Take base Legion pre-nerf and go from there.
-Bump to 115.
-No more downing with FF, no more drain in TR.
-If you fully deplete DW it now adds an action speed penalty for up to x(a minute maybe?)
-If they mend the action speed penalty applies for 30s instead.
-You can still multi-stab as before, but draining the bar just gets you closer to the "mangled" debuff. 3 stabs to drain.
-Keep the rework pins, but they now apply when picked up from dying state, or when rescued from hook, and apply first application of DW.
-SWS reworked to 1 less stab to put a survivor into "mangled" and extends the timers by 10s for mended, 15s for "mangled"
-Frank's reworked to every successful application of DW you gain increasing movement speed until you stab someone who is already in DW, or cancel Feral Frenzy.
-Fuming Mix Tape reworked to you have infinite feral frenzy outside of a chase. This doesn't work with Killer Instinct even if you drop a chase. Will only apply on a fresh Feral Frenzy.(edited)
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696488#Comment_696488
If you don't heal Legion is still able to get you though. Not healing is just as bad as healing, just like Plague. You either heal and he injures you again, or you don't and you're a 1 hit down which makes it easier. Also, again, that second FF would have given you full Thanataphobia stacks. If they were SWF, then yeah We'll Make It likely would have still done a lot for them, but it still would have slowed them down, and take it from someone who's dealt with sloppy a lot. It hurts, it hurts bad.
See, as someone who runs No Mither, Sloppy, FF, all these things are just a joke to me. Cuz I don't heal. I just loop and do gens. That is if I ever get seen at all. It's not that much slower, it's like 6s for SC, 3 for healing someone else. It's just the red bar making it seem worse than it is. Second FF I didn't hit anyone?
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@casedistorted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696502#Comment_696502
Would me nice if there WAS a secondary objective, like a tombstone or totem or two that spawned on the map you needed to find at the end of all gens being completed before like a boney gate blocking the exit switches would break.. just something creative to increase game time just a tad, which could be added to the game once you get above a certain rank like 10.
Just throwing out ideas there.
They're good ideas. I think most of the community is in agreement that we need some form of secondary objective that actually slows the game down and is mandatory. Unlike totems, unless you wanna delete NOED, or gain extra points/emblem points.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Why didn’t you use frenzy to get information of where the rest of the survivors were in the beginning?
I understand you wanted to keep chasing that Claudette but honestly you don’t even bother to look before she pallet stuns you and takes your power away.
Would this have guaranteed that you wouldn’t have lost 3 gens? Not sure. Not without knowing what items/perks they have. What I do know is that had you checked, left that Claudette to mend... she would have had to mend giving you time to find others and do the same, thus putting pressure at the start of the match.
I mentioned this earlier. In the vid you can see me flicking my cam to see if anyone was nearby, seeing no one I decided to eat the pallet for a faster cd and down the Claudette. Had I gone over to the side where the other gens were I'd have just fatigued, and have to wait 20s for my power to come up. Claud would've mended by the time i got to the other side and hopped back on the gen or self-cared. Probably worked on the gen cuz no one brought self-care.
So, I'd have one survivor I'd be chasing as a basic killer cuz 20s cd + 4s fatigue which would've cost me 2 gens minimum. Then I'd have to chase whoever it was, probably Kate she was the closest iirc on the far left gen. By then I'd have lost Claud's gen, and had an even worse spread of gens to defend.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696497#Comment_696497
Of course, I just mean that coms are a benefit, they don't really make the game any better for a solo team or SWFs.
It doesn't matter if a SWF uses coms or not, it only matters if they actually all know what they're doing...
Ain't that the truth?
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@casedistorted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/88553/gen-times-are-fine
I was thinking the other day maybe if they just added 30 seconds to a minute to the time to do every gen it would make the game just a LITTLE bit better for everyone. But meh, just required to bring Hex: Ruin every game, waste a perk slot, and pray that a survivor doesn't spawn on top of it.
We really can't add any more time to the gens. People already complain about m1 simulator, (while afking on the gen and playing survivor 2000+ hours, *cough*). It is still a good point though, we need a secondary objective or something baked in baseline for killers like CI, or something that slows down the beginning of the game where you're essentially at your weakest. The time you take searching is valuable time wasted, even more so for set-up killers. The hard part is figuring out that extension to the game, that doesn't break it and is fun for both sides.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696473#Comment_696473
Depends on if the solos actually know what to do, if they don't that's a different story.
Its rare to even find a coordinated solo team, because there isn't coms like a SWFs has.
Funny enough, Marth's Depip Squad did multiple experiments, not sure if you heard about them. They did a full SWF with no comms, one with comms and meta perks, and I think one with comms, but no perks? Something like that. Either way, the best success they had was SWF with no comms. Cuz they didn't mix up call outs or make stupid altruistic plays like they did on comms. They were 4 "solos" who knew what to do to get out and that's what they focused on.
Comms help for sure, and bad solos can utterly throw a game, but you can do really well with just a coordinated group out to survive.
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@Atrushan88 said:
One thing I'll mention is you said you don't like Sloppy Butcher/Thana, but one, isn't that Legion's main build, and two, if they had we'll make it, they countered you not having Sloppy/Thana.
Sloppy barely adds like 3s to healing someone else, 6s if you use Self-Care. If I'm remembering the times correctly. Also, Adrenaline completely negates both of those. Thana is 15%? I think at max, assuming I have everyone injured which most of that game I had 2 or so injured so that's only 8%? That's pretty much non-existent and someone had toolbox which would negate it anyway.
As for We'll Make It, that hard counters both cuz WMI is 100%. Sloppy cuts healing by 20%, add the 2 injured that's 28%. If they even stack cuz I think they made it so they don't stack. Either way, that's still 72% extra healing speed on WMI.
Everyone says to run Thana/Sloppy on Legion which is a bit of a contradiction and I never liked it. Thana is cuz he injures people, sloppy is for when they heal. However, you shouldn't heal against Legion and a lot of people just rush gens into Adrenaline and ignore healing altogether. The #s just aren't good enough to run those perks imo. I'd rather run my comfort perks.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696437#Comment_696437
Hill-Billy isn't an M1 Killer, a M1 Killer is a Killer that relies on their M1 to actually down Survivors, while their M2 is just a bonus effect to getting said downs. (Just some info lol)
Also, the stigma about SWFs being gods of the game if they're coordinated really shouldn't exist, and i'm amazed it does... Probably because a lot of people are not used to it or are not in in my "skill bracket" like I sometimes think they're (That doesn't make you bad no, it just doesn't mean you're used to it like I am, thus its easier for me to crush them.)
Of course, a SWFs isn't easy, it just isn't impossible to beat. Do I have to actually try if there's a good SWFs? Yes. Will I win every-time and get a 4k? No, its not as easy as I make it seem.
In-general, some Killers really do have different experiences.
I'd actually argue that a group of coordinated solos is scarier than a SWF. An SWF will waste time on altruism/possibly make stupid plays to make sure everyone escapes. A killer needs that time/those mistakes to really get the snowball going. There are definitely SWFs that will just burn through you before you can do anything though, but there relatively rare until the red ranks, and even then some tend to que with lower rank players to bully so you might avoid them too.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696458#Comment_696458
Best of luck in the future then buddy, I do hope its a good one indeed.
For sure, I appreciate the advice, don't think I'm just brushing it off. I just play a bit differently is all. :P Same to you, good luck in your games.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696441#Comment_696441
Losing generators really doesn't make the match a loss automatically, it actually makes the game easier to snowball. Less field to monitor = more chances to encounter and down Survivors.
RNG does help when it comes to if a game will be won, but its ultimately up to the Killer to make the best of every scenario. Whether we see eye to eye on the subject, its ultimately up to the future. But i'll respect your opinion, and just move on from the subject.
Hopefully in the future, you'll have more fun with Legion, regardless if what I said helps or not.
Yea, for sure and I didn't take losing 3 as a loss. I took the 5 popping after using the basement hook as a loss. :P I honestly just prefer old Legion. Even at 110 I felt like I had more variety/better pressure. I've had great games with Legion post-nerf, and yea. The main thing I was pointing out was how ridiculously fast this game went, and how powerless I was to stop it. Especially as the power role. I'll play them again later, but if I keep getting games like this I'll just go back to other killers who can actually perform and not DS themselves every 20s. :P
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696352#Comment_696352
Perks are never a guarantee for anything. However some perks are more likely to have a butterfly effect than others. I suggested Corrupt since you dislike Ruin.
Both perks (Ruin/Corrupt) potentially allow you to build huge early-game pressure whereras Agitation merely saves you a few tenths of a second on average. The typical "carry duration" is roughly 5 seconds. Agitation increases your carry speed by 18%.
You just saved 0.9 seconds.
Just give it a try. At least Corrupt can't be destroyed at the start of the game and it somewhat synergizes with Legion due to their tracking powers.
I've tried CI before, I didn't like it, cuz my gens still just popped or they hid out. I'll try it again. Agi is a lot better than people think, especially in a bodyblocking situation. It's also a comfort pick for me, not really anything meant to stall or change up the game.
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@xllxENIGMAxllx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696418#Comment_696418
Yes it's totally possible, what is overrated is Hillbilly sure i agree he is the best M1 killer for sure but he is certaintly not that strong against good player with grey add-ons. Sure with insta-saw and mori i destroy every SwF (almost) but we shouldn't have to play tryhardy to smash some advanced SwF.
Our max potential should be used to win against max potential survivors. Before you question my skill i know every technics (curving , zoning etc...).
That should be the case. 1 should = 4 if coordinated. I also want them to buff by baking in grey/yellow addons for some killers. Shouldn't be a requirement, they aren't for survivors.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696422#Comment_696422
The RNG part is true, but I have to disagree that every coordinated team isn't a good time. I stand by that every scenario can be won, it just depends on how you play it.
For the scenario you faced, had it been that you went to the where the other 3 were, it could've been a different outcome. But when it came to who you went to first, it wasn't going to work out. That's what I meant with the first comment, your SPECIFIC scenario, the route you took, the things you did, couldn't have prevented that 3 gen pop.
There are some coordinated teams that can give you a good game, but if they want to win and get out, they will. Especially if they brought items/addons. Imagine if they had instas or toolboxes. I have to disagree that every scenario can be won. There are games you will just lose and a good part of that is the maps you get, spawns, totem locations, a lot of things can factor in. A single mistake can extend a chase to a dangerous point, and you can't play perfect every game.
Had I gone the opposite route, I might've been able to Frenzy and hit 2, MAYBE 3, depending on the route they took, how much duration I had, if there were pallets/anything to loop me on. I still more than likely would've lost 2 gens minimum. Which is better yes, but while I'm chasing the other 3 have mended/finished a gen for sure.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/696414#Comment_696414
You really should use add-ons... Its your Killer though, do as you please.
I'm just suggesting things that could've made that situation a lot easier to prevent.
Even with addons I'd have still lost 3 gens, if not more. With Sloppy wouldn't matter cuz WMI/double healing. I probably should, but I hoard my addons. Imo addons should be minor power boosts/change up gameplay not be a requirement to play a killer. Which sadly I don't think even addons will save Legion. If they were a bit more clustered then yea, I could've got a good FF off and some early stall. Just got unlucky with spawns and they did the gens.