Caretaker
Caretaker
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@fluffybunny said:
@Caretaker I didn't name the perk, but I named the affected. c: Not that hard, champ. You're just being willful now.
Way to ignore what I wrote. :^) I told you how to deal with the affected, but that doesn't matter apparently, cuz that goes against what you think and that's abrasive and mean. :c Flipped your switch fast.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
I'm so sick of these post complaining about the new Legion. He is WAY more balanced than he was before. Dude Legion still gets a free frenzy hit, not to mention he has add-ons that now can give a survivor:
1.) the "broken" status
2.) far longer lasting frenzy, lets you cover more ground
3.) 4.6 m/s
4.) can STILL vault pallets (no counter, gets conveniently ignored)
and so many more things we can list. It does suck in my opinion that his terror radius was changed, but at least he can no longer moonwalk survivors with the new mending mechanic.
Please go watch this unbiased video by HybridPanda
A free hit that's on a 20s cd, and can't be used on injured survivors, and after the first hit he wastes time chasing down other survivors which leaves them to mend and do gens. He's not balanced, he's trash, and that's why survivors say he's better now. Cuz instead of fixing him, they gutted him due to all the crying and jumped to their general knee jerk reactions as they always do.
1) Requires an addon AND for you to waste your 20s cd power to hit a survivor again assuming you don't whiff, and you'll be on the hook so it'll drain anyway, no one heals anyway. If Broken was scary, Plague would be a god.
2) Which comes with less speed, longer fatigue, requires a full 20s bar to fill before you can use it again. Which is lost upon any stun, hitting a survivor with m1, or whiffing.
3) Trapper, Plague, Wraith, LF, Freddy, Clown, Doctor sure are good 115 killers. *cough* *cough*
4) Vaulting pallets isn't scary, and actually bad cuz now you have a pallet down and you have to break it, to m1 the survivor cuz your power can no longer down anyone. Also they nerfed it so he basically slow-mos while doing it. It's actually slower than survivors.
Moonwalking needed to be changed, but Legion got an FOV nerf, double cd nerf, Frank's gutted, power gutted, fatigue nerf, and FF MS nerfed. But it's k, cuz he's a generic M1 killer with no real power, especially if anyone is injured. That's ok though, cuz that's what everyone wanted anyway right?
Hell, Feral Frenzy isn't a power, it's just an excuse to keep buffing Borrowed Time. They even admitted they keep buffing BT because of Feral Frenzy. Imagine selling a DLC killer with a power so you can buff an already strong perk. Nice.
Last post, I swear, have fun. <3
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444106#Comment_444106
@Caretaker Never said I didn't insult you, but I give you facts and you choose to ignore them and insult cause you're wrong. Anyway while you're at it , again (if you can get it through your thick skull), search your name in the queue, then tell us "you play both sides evenly."
You're the only one crying I don't cuz I went against your agenda. Again. GOTTEM.
@fluffybunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444101#Comment_444101
Not sure what you're trying to say with your first sentence.
I'll say this and I'll only say this once. This isn't a "we" versus "you." This is an "us." That's how you alienate people, which won't help bringing people over to your understanding.
You can pick your item back up until it's depleted or have you forgotten how the higher tiers of Franky's work? I'm giving a comparison. It's a free smack the item out of your hand perk. Survivors don't have a free smack add-ons out of your hand perk. Maybe get rid of MoM and give us that instead? c: I'm sure you would looove that.
There's crap I don't like, either. Insta-heals usually feel rather mindless. That isn't to detract from my point: Killers have "free" stuff, too. Free pallet break, free item drop, free kill end game. To pretend they don't is short sighted.
I used Tinker and M&A as examples not because there isn't counters, but because you need to change what you're doing. It's like when you're facing a Michael with M&A versus a killer with a normal terror radius. You need to be looking around and paying attention. That was the point that soared so far above your head, apparently.
I'm giving you examples and you're saying I'm wrong 'cause you feel like it. o-o I'm thinking I'm gonna stop.
You gave an argument. I countered your argument. Sorry for having a discussion? Am I supposed to just pretend like there is no way anything you said could be countered or worked around?
I'm giving you examples and you're saying I'm wrong 'cause you feel like it. o-o I'm thinking I'm gonna stop.
This is literally what you've been doing the entire time, and why these discussions bring me so much joy. Also lovely way of saying you cannot admit you're wrong, and someone disagreeing with you and making counter-points is reason enough to shove words in my mouth saying I'm doing it cuz I feel like it. You go champ.
10% duration off your item. Not using it means you got hit 10 times and you're still somehow not dead. Unless your item is somehow down to 20~%, and you're not against a "power" killer, cuz Franklin's was nerfed, fun fact, you're not gonna have your item broken.
There's crap I don't like, either. Insta-heals usually feel rather mindless. That isn't to detract from my point: Killers have "free" stuff, too. Free pallet break, free item drop, free kill end game. To pretend they don't is short sighted.
Name. The. Perks. You keep avoiding it cuz you know you're wrong, but you don't wanna admit. Free pallet break that requires breaking 2 pallets which wastes upwards of 30+seconds so 1/3 of 3 gens. Probably more cuz you might not have gotten a hit, and Endfury that's 2 perks required for that "free pallet break", might give you a hit, so you're still looking at a 45s-1m long chase so that's 3 gens gone by the time you down/hook. Wow, how "free".
A "free item drop" that was nerfed and requires you to m1, to catch the survivor, for the survivor to have an item, it's not free, you just don't like Franklin's despite it being a generally bad perk and easily worked around.
"A free kill end game." Rancor? You can't be talking about NOED cuz I've lived plenty of games with NOED by cleansing the totem, someone saving me with BT, leaving the match cuz I'm not stupid enough to save with NOED unless I hear boom and/or, cleansing totems before it procs, cuz you know that's how you counter it. If you mean Rancor, I've suggested it be changed to only affect people who run OBS perks.
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@GrootDude said:
@Caretaker @Speshul_Kitten this is going nowhere. Y’all might wanna stop b4 someone gets banned.
Wouldn't be the first time. Also, having a good convo with fluffy at least. I do wanna go watch some videos so, y'all have fun. Speshul I'll be back in a few months while you seethe and reee over what I said here cuz apparently you remember that stuff while I bounce for however many weeks I leave the forums for. Peace. <3
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444102#Comment_444102
@Caretaker Caretaker: "Another forum member defending something I want changed, must be a survivor main, time to insult, REEEEEEEE!"
"Inb4 generic insult, you're a killer main, NOED is a crutch, you're just bad, lul." Gottem.
"So if I scroll back up and go through your history I won't ever find a single insult or you literally just repeating my insults back to me, because god forbid you use your brain for anything?" GOTTEM.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
@Caretaker try searching your own history in the queue while you're at it, you can use some time to reflect on what your definition of "balance" really is.
Whatever the ######### you want, I want the opposite of. "NOED IS UNCOUNTERABLE REEEE" Lul.
"Inb4 generic insult, you're a killer main, NOED is a crutch, you're just bad, lul." Gottem.
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@fluffybunny said:
@Caretaker As I said, I mentioned it initially 'cause people compare it to old DS a lot. In my initial post:
(For the ones comparing it to DS)
The killer doesn't get stunned. If I see you injured on a gen and I smack you and you get MoM, I still can provide pressure, especially if you're with others. And why would I go to a safe area with no gens just 'cause you're over there? I'm not. Like if I see you working on a gen that's important or going for the save, I'll intervene, but you're hindering your team if you do neither and I'll mess with you when either everyone else is killed or downed or you're doing something useful to your team.
Mettle Of Man will deactivate the next time you are put into the Dying State.
If I smack you 'cause you're being annoying and you choose to run to an area with nothing, I don't need to follow you and down you, just to leave you on the ground. Or were you saying I'd smack you and you'd make the aura portion active by healing? You don't remove the aura portion from healing if that's what you were trying to say. I'm honestly not sure.
MoM should only activate when a person may be second stage, unless you're hitting and leaving people a lot. I would be for adding a BT affect to the person hit (so they waste extra time), but I still don't think it's as strong as some are making it out to be.
I asked you what the counters were, and even you said there really isn't any outside of 2-3 killers, and a perk people generally don't run.
I also said you can do hit & run to get MoM through early, that way they aren't trolling you end game with it and have to actually be careful with what you do. If you aren't going on long chases and pressuring generators, hitting people off, it won't show up as much of an issue. A lot of killers find someone and try to chase them for 5 gens, though.
Not everything needs an obvious counter. What's the counter for Franky's, for instance? You've already brought in an item. Don't get hit? Gl with that. Things like Tinker and M&A you need to change your playstyle, too. It isn't just an obvious counter and some things may require you to play differently than you usually do. If you hit someone with MoM but don't down them, that gives you aura reading until you do. You can go and pressure the important areas (like if you're setting up a three gen strat or are using discordance and see two people working on a gen) and just return to them if they're pressuring an area you don't want them.
I'm comparing them to killer perks 'cause I'm assuming you'll be familiar with them and I'm trying to help you understand where I'm coming from when I say it isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. Like Adrenaline? Maybe. It isn't like it's not strong. The next old DS? No.
Though I'm wondering if you think Adrenaline is an OP, unfair perk.
So, there is no real counter outside of waste time and get it out early? Sweet MoM is gone, and I've only lost 3 gens. Worth it. o/
MoM is not strong. Major streamer tweets about DS getting nerfed, but now they have MoM so suck it killer mains. :thinking:
Counter to Franklin's? Really? One, who actually runs Franklin's compared to MoM, and if you want to go that route, what's the counter to instaheals? BNPS? 4 toolboxes? We get Franklin's, and still have to HIT you. Also, if they have Franklin's, you go pick your item back up. Congrats, you countered Franklin's. Or better yet, die in a locker with a white ward. Drop the item in a safe spot and go get it after the game is done.
Tinkerer and M&A are easy, you have this neat mechanic called a 3rd person camera. Killers also have a bright red stain that shows up and often times goes through walls. Also, who runs Tinkerer?
I don't know how many times I can say aura reading isn't scary. Not a single time have I hesitated to heal to full, if I even bothered to heal, cuz I have Adrenaline, so I just rushed the gens and they only got 30s of aura reading off me, which I still just walk out, or loop.
What killer perks? I asked you to name them, cuz you keep bringing them up, but never name them. Also yea, Adrenaline is totally fine, it's not why everyone runs it or anything. Not like gens can be burnt through in a few minutes, and there's no real pressure/fear of not getting it off if you're not a potato.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
@Caretaker keep up the insults I love how they're your only comeback. WE will stick to discussing proper balance and FACTS while you keep screeching to every valid argument that counters yours.
So if I scroll back up and go through your history I won't ever find a single insult or you literally just repeating my insults back to me, because god forbid you use your brain for anything? The FACTS are that you're a terrible player and holding m1 is difficult. For the love of god, I hope they don't ever consider your drivel when it comes to balance. The game is awful enough as it is.
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@GenSim12345 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/443901#Comment_443901
Counter-Play? Exposed perks. Or Slugging.
Thats it.
Yup, so MYC, or DH(Like you'll get 3 stacks, or more than one hit out of it.) NOED if they don't cleanse totems, but they'll have it by then, just don't heal. Slugging, well rip slugging. That's actually hurting you. Cuz now you're risking them getting up and healed, so more hits for MoM.
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@fluffybunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/444014#Comment_444014
Using it properly completely screws a killer and extends a chase longer than it should be, aka, old DS.
Is mentioning DS last time I checked. I mentioned DS in the first place 'cause I see a lot of people are complaining about MoM being like the old DS or the next old DS and I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are saying. It's like the people who complain about Adrenaline. It can be really strong depending on the situation, but it could also be a wasted slot. Especially if you don't get to end game.
I think you're not taking into account that you may not be in a good position. If you're afraid of being found and refuse leaving safe areas, you're likely not getting the gens done that's important. You're not going for the save 'cause you know I can see you and intervene. It isn't like OoO where you can see the killer, too. There's ways to work around it. Some people just don't adapt, I guess.
Is mentioning DS last time I checked.
Fair point. Only time I mentioned it, was cuz you all were.
I mentioned DS in the first place 'cause I see a lot of people are complaining about MoM being like the old DS or the next old DS and I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are saying.
It's literally a free hit without the stun. It doesn't require you to go down either. Just take hits. Easily done by bodyblocking. You even get the hit sprint burst.
It's like the people who complain about Adrenaline. It can be really strong depending on the situation, but it could also be a wasted slot. Especially if you don't get to end game.
That's why no one runs Adrenaline right? Right? Right?
I think you're not taking into account that you may not be in a good position. If you're afraid of being found and refuse leaving safe areas, you're likely not getting the gens done that's important.
That's why I said earlier to figure out your path, and make it safe. If I refuse to leave a safe area, you're still wasting time while 3 other people do gens, I'll probably get hit too, but I'm safe so you'll leave, I'll heal and boom. MoM is active for end-game.
You're not going for the save 'cause you know I can see you and intervene. It isn't like OoO where you can see the killer, too. There's ways to work around it. Some people just don't adapt, I guess.
Ok? Then I'll just do gens while someone else saves? Or I'll go save with BT, or just eat the hit anyway cuz I'm full health then loop you?
There is no adapting to something that doesn't have a counter. The "adapting" here is suck it up cuz it won't be changed, cuz for some reason second chances are the only thing survivors think matter. Not skill, not proper play, no. Second chances. I asked you what the counters were, and even you said there really isn't any outside of 2-3 killers, and a perk people generally don't run.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
@Caretaker you’re really good at trying to describe others the exact way you are yourself. You’re arguments are invalid, if ANYONE searches your name in the search bar your arguments are COMPLETELY based on defending every crutch a killer has or nerfing every advantage a survivor has. Don’t believe me? Search your own name in the queue 😂😂
What a riveting response. It's so generic I think you actually might have had to put thought into it. You think NOED is a problem, and think cleansing totems is difficult.
Inb4 generic insult, you're a killer main, NOED is a crutch, you're just bad, lul.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
@Caretaker you’re math is not wrong, but it’s incomplete and lacking facts, but I’m not surprised. You failed to include the survivor time (1555 escapes) within the 2400 hours. Don’t touch math, leave it to people who understand it. I will link where you defended nOeD until you’re last breath.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369574#Comment_369574
Like I said, stick to your killermain fairytales.
Are you dyslexic or? Cuz I wanna know if you're just stupid or have a disability. If it's the latter, sorry for making fun of you, if not, you're stupid. Also, that thread isn't relevant to this one, if you cleansed totems as hard as you grasp at straws you'd have no issue with NOED. Then again you're a survivor main who thinks the game is hard, so there's not much else left here to do but laugh at you.
I didn't bring up your escapes, cuz as I said multiple times now, I know you're a survivor main I was interested in if you actually played killer, which you're right. Thanks for proving that you hardly ever play killer. I thought it was clear, but here, let's double that, now you've got 7/24. Wingo, you're really putting the spurs to 'em!
Easy way to tell you're a survivor main is you're hard-headed, refuse to admit you're wrong, put words in my mouth, try to use previous unrelated threads to back up your non-existent argument, constantly throw assumptions, and then act high and mighty after you just ######### all over the thread with a bunch of nonsensical posts. Have fun in fairytale survivor crutch land where the game plays for you, but it's definitely your "skill". We'll continue discussing balance with people who don't cry when they see "Exposed" on their screen.
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@fluffybunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/443982#Comment_443982
A free hit would be implying you've done absolutely nothing to do it. Whether you like to admit it or not, it has something you need to do (get hit) and has a down side (aura being seen or being 1 shot). It's also likely to occur not at the start, but mid game where you should be realistically snowballing pressure. If you want to argue that a survivor shouldn't be rewarded for "failing" multiple times in a row, should we make the same argument with pallet stuns and Spirit Fury? This is coming from someone who doesn't mind either of the perks, but killers have perks where you fail multiple times in a row to get rewarded. And they don't have a downside to go along with it, so I think the survivor version is fair because of that.
Old DS was trash 'cause you could use it at the start for no reason. You didn't have to do anything to activate it. It took away a lot of pressure from early game, which was so important for Killers. @Caretaker
A free hit would be implying you've done absolutely nothing to do it. Whether you like to admit it or not, it has something you need to do (get hit) and has a down side (aura being seen or being 1 shot).
Wow, take hits, aka play the game like you normally do. How shocking, how difficult to obtain. Aura reading isn't scary, I'm still gonna loop you, or just save it for end-game and leave anyway. 1-shots have nothing to do with MoM. That's based on the killer/player, not the perk, it's not a downside. Also, you get a literally free hit. Just don't heal and boom you can ignore ANYTHING IN THE GAME THAT WOULD DOWN YOU.
It's also likely to occur not at the start, but mid game where you should be realistically snowballing pressure.
Ah, the good old "apply pressure" argument. The classic. Was wondering when this was show up. Killers have no real end-game, and with EGC we have even LESS end game pressure. Pressure for killers is praying survivors aren't burning gens, wasting too much time with loops, and that they're altruistic/wasting time healing. We don't have any real say unless playing a top-tier killer, and survivors are potatoes. Keyword there, "AND". .,
If you want to argue that a survivor shouldn't be rewarded for "failing" multiple times in a row, should we make the same argument with pallet stuns and Spirit Fury?
Oh yea, I have to waste 2 perks for SF to be effective, SF, and Enduring. This is confirmed by BHVR as balanced because it was designed to REQUIRE ENDURING to be effective. Also, you can literally turn off two perks by dropping a pallet early. Congratulations you've countered Enduring, and Spirit Fury. The killer now has 2 perks. It was that easy to do. You have plenty more pallets and jungle gyms to use as well. Be smart about your pathing.
This is coming from someone who doesn't mind either of the perks, but killers have perks where you fail multiple times in a row to get rewarded. And they don't have a downside to go along with it, so I think the survivor version is fair because of that.
It doesn't matter whether you like the perk or not. That doesn't determine it's strength. People hate No Mither, but I love it for the challenge. Doesn't make it a good perk. What perks do killers have that reward you for failing multiple times? Please, name them off. There isn't any, unless you're gonna say NOED and NOED has a counter unlike MoM. Also, comparing perks is stupid, they're two different gameplay styles/mechanics.
Old DS was trash 'cause you could use it at the start for no reason. You didn't have to do anything to activate it. It took away a lot of pressure from early game, which was so important for Killers. @Caretaker
I never said anything about old DS? I wanted it removed. New one isn't as bad, but it also punishes you for snowballing so, that's fun.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
@Caretaker well then you’ve proved nothing but your hours. Nothing else more to go off but your words of the generic “i pLaY bOtH sIdEs eQuAlLy, bTw nErF mOm, nOeD iS fInE”
Where did I say NOED is fine? Again, thank you for proving my point that you're just a salty survivor main. You may play killer, but you're very clearly biased. Also, I'm just gonna point and laugh at the fact you have trouble with NOED which has a set counter and it's SUPER ######### easy to stop and has a perk to help, while MoM doesn't.
Also, since you wanna do math:
4121, let's round that to 4100 for nice rounded numbers. Out of 2400 hours. Let's assume each match lasted around 5~10.
We're gonna divide kills by hours: 0.585~, so roughly .6 kills an hour. I'm gonna be nice, and say games extended to 10 minutes, so that means, you got 3.6 killers an hour, out of 6 matches. That's 3.6 out of a potential 24. I definitely trust you when it comes to playing killer.
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@TripleTailSlap said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/443970#Comment_443970
My friends and I understand that most gameplay rebalances are more Survivor Biased so i definitely feel where you are coming from. I am crossing my fingers that the upcoming Freddy update does a better job to cater to both sides, because I do agree that this nerf is because too many survivors were unhappy, so they need to make the killers a little unhappy to "balance" the community.
I can't wait for them to gut Freddy. :^) Also, killers have been unhappy for years, we're just masochists.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
@Caretaker it means that 2400 hours are not solely dedicated to 4121 kills. There’s also 1555 escapes WITHIN those 2400 hours, I don’t expect you to understand anything about the survivor side though! Btw how many survivor escapes and kills do you have?
I don't know, cuz I play on PC. I do have a 4TB harddrive filled with games from both sides, and quad iri'd everything possible.
Also, that has nothing to do with math, or what I said about you playing killer so I have no clue why you keep bringing it up, so I'll keep with my first thought that it's a title not a nickname.
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@fluffybunny said:
I had games where MoM literally screwed them 'cause they were the last one left and I could see them. I do a lot of smacking people off of gens and sometimes don't even notice it going off. People are making it out to be worse than it is. (For the ones comparing it to DS) The issue with DS from my understanding is that it took away from early game pressure and was free at the start. While you consider it something to do, you still need to get hit with an M1 attack (which can be denied by those who can use M2 ones). That's still something that needs to happen. It isn't free and it even comes with a downside (killers being able to see you).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/443940#Comment_443940
@TreemanXD I appreciate the Nea you snuck into there. 💜
The problem with MoM, is it is a FREE HIT, for just playing the game. Using it properly completely screws a killer and extends a chase longer than it should be, aka, old DS. You can make this even worse with perks such as Dead Hard. Also, if you loop well you will be M1'd cuz they cannot get their M2's off. I see plenty of killers default to M1's due to rough loops that waste too much time attempting to M2.
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@TripleTailSlap said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/443958#Comment_443958
The Legion... is honestly just another lost soul, like all the other survivors. We must embrace them.
The upcoming rebalance will be difficult to adjust too. I could only bare witness to videos. I do not have The Legion on my PC Edition, so I must wait for the patch to go live on PSN to truly judge. I will probably be sad, but I will not give up on them! I will make the weak prosperous!
He's just gonna keep getting nerfed. It'll never be enough for people who didn't like him, and they do not care whether or not even legit Legion players who didn't moonwalk or roll Frank's every match have fun.
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@GrootDude said:
@Caretaker that is why I said they weren’t guaranteed. Imo Nea is the strongest counter I listed. :b
That's my point. There is no real counter to MoM outside of "Soft" counters that can easily be avoided.
@Speshul_Kitten said:
@Caretaker not only should you never be considered when it comes to balancing games, you should also work on your math, there’s 1555 escapes included in those 2395 hours. 😂
Are you saying you struggle to escape or? I didn't mention your escapes, what the ######### does that have to do with math? I get your name is speshul, but I thought it was a nickname not a title. I'd be fine at balancing games cuz I can actually look past something outside of my own personal agenda. :^) I hate Doc, but I want him to be buffed. I think Billy needs a tweak, and Nurse's addons need to be adjusted.
Then again you don't know me, nor have you had more than this conversation with me, but you know literally everything about how I think and what I do, cuz that's just what you do. You assume a bunch of #########, toss assumptions, then rapid fire to defend any point you make instead of thinking maybe you could be wrong. Prove me wrong, please. I'm right here reading.
I saw you play killer, you got feast. Cool.
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Legion sucks, he's been gutted, if you think new Legion is ok, I don't know what to tell you. If no one heals, your power is worthless. Guess what the current meta is? Don't heal, rush into Adrenaline. He has tons of downsides, for a single hit, and after that his power gets turned off. You DS yourself for using your power.
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@GrootDude said:
@Caretaker well since you failed to read it I said “if it didn’t activate and I died did it not get countered?”
Legion, Plague, Leatherface, hillbilly, huntress,Nea, Trapper,Make your choice, Noed,Iron maiden, Bloody coil,Nea,Michael Myers and Nea. Keep in mind most of these aren’t guaranteed counters.
Legion doesn't counter MoM, I can show you the video of someone using MoM against my Legion if you want. Ah yes, Plague, what a STRONG killer. Also, really hard to counter if they don't bother healing and you don't get corrupt purge, but again not a true counter there. I'll nod that one to you.
LF does IF you can saw someone, and we all know how much fun that is, and how easy it is to do. Hillbilly, yup. Huntress, yup, though everyone is quitting her, especially after PTB. Trapper only does if you get trapped, pay attention. MYC is only good on a few killers, and just stay immersed. Iron Maiden? That's a lul, but fair enough. Blood Coil could, but you can just heal and stealth? Miguel can instadown you, but that'd require 3 instadowns and never hit a survivor without it, and never give them an extra hit. This means no BT, no DS.
Fair enough on them not being guaranteed, but that proves my point. The "counters" outside of Billy chainsawing you, which let's face it proper looping will force an M1 from him, same with Huntress, and LF, there is no real counter.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
@Caretaker let me completely disqualify every opinion you’ve verbally accused me of to push forward your personal agenda as a killer main in disguise. Now you’re completely discredited about making assumptions of people from here on out. And this is ONLY on console, not including PC hours Enjoy :)
So, you can make assumptions and that's ok, but when I do it's not? Sounds like a hypocrite to me, so at least that's not an opinionated statement. :^) Also, I thought screenshots didn't count? Also, 4121 kills in 2400 hours? That's it?
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
@Caretaker i mean I can throw around screenshots of hours I play too if I want to feel more confident about myself and change my dramatically incorrect assumptions about how op something is that I don’t like. But proving someone like you wrong wouldn’t make a difference cause you’re a killer main with an agenda!
Ah, see I actually play both sides unlike you. That's the difference. I don't pretend something isn't broken cuz I'm not good enough to use it properly. I'm not gonna say something isn't broken cuz I require it to win. I ran stupid as ######### builds before and still live cuz it's that easy. No Mither, Plunder, SB, Resil. You'd say 3/4ths of those perks are trash I guarantee.
I showed screenshots to show I play both sides, and I have experience. It's kinda hypocritical of you to screech that I have an agenda while failing to provide counters, and tossing an agenda yourself. I see you two liking each other's comments too. I'm a killer main after all so, guess I'll blame SWF here.
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@GrootDude said:
@Caretaker if you died and it didn’t activate did it not get countered? Certain killers and perks can counter it.
Again, name them. Also, you're saying that I am required to play with THOSE perks, and THOSE killers to stop an overpowered perk?
Wow, kill the survivor. What a novel concept. I'll just camp OBS on the hook I guess. Since that's the only counter.
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@GrootDude said:
@Caretaker if it didn’t get used then it got countered. It apparently has counters otherwise you’d use it most every match but in my experience on both sides it doesn’t get used commonly.
That's why I see it every match, that's why I run it every match, and people not getting it doesn't mean it got countered. Again, answer the question. What are the counters? What if you don't play a "power" killer? I had it not proc one match, it got countered by me leaving the match through the exit gate, and not going down. :^)
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
@Caretaker there have been more games where I have died in the end and MoM never activated. Don’t act like you have never played a game where MoM doesn’t activate. You’re basing your bias opinion on nerfing a perk too challenging for you.
Can say for a fact I’ve NEVER played a game where Legion didn’t vault a pallet, before and during the PTB.
Ah yes, the old, "You don't know what you're talking about." Argument. How classy. I dont' play Legion, and I totally don't run MoM every game cuz it's so stupidly broken I can play like an idiot and save my likewise idiot friends.
I am literally clueless as to how this game works. Also, where are these counters for it? I don't see it any outside of, "I died, and didn't get to use my broken as ######### perk." "I died so I didn't get to use Adrenaline, what a trash perk, god."
Also, "It's too challenging for you." Is that why you're a survivor main? :^)
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@fluffybunny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/443884#Comment_443884
@Caretaker Its counter is power attacks and it's balanced with a downside. A survivor really doesn't want the killer to see what they're doing. In order to avoid that, you'll need to stay one-downed while not knowing where the killer is coming from (if they leave you). Old DS dampened my games far more than MoM has.
Ah yes, the classic, "Well x was worse." "It was worse before." Also, name all the killers with "Power attacks", please. Survivors don't want that, but OOO users are literally the best players in the game and actively want you to chase them. Aura reading doesn't suddenly delete pallets, windows, exhaust perks, or stop Adrenaline from working. Also, you go down once, and the aura is gone. Wow, one down. Super scary.
"It's still #########, but at least it's got gold flakes in it."
One of the easiest ways to ignore MoMs downside is just play smart, and save it for end-game to BM and take free hits while you leave.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/443802#Comment_443802
@sairek It has as more counter play than Legion vaulting a pallet
Like what? Don't hit you? Please, I want to hear this counterplay. You all spout off about how easy it is to deal with MoM, but everyone runs it, cuz it has no counterplay outside of chainsaws, insta-down perks, etc. There is no set-counter. Also, who cares if Legion vaults a pallet? They nerfed the hell out of him anyway, now he's slower than you are.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/443884#Comment_443884
Two matches sure proves a lot.... we’ll need more proof than that.
Oh I'm sorry let me go through my entire catalog of games and screenshot all of them. Also let me go grab FW's tweets about DS getting nerfed, but now they have MoM so suck it killer mains. Glad "not all 4 survivors ran it" is now considered an argument on whether a perk is bullshit or not.
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@shinymon said:
How often do you even see MoM being used? I rarely see them in my games. And even then, you’ll probably only see 2 at the very most.
I had plenty of games where I didn’t even get a chance for it to proc during the times I’ve used it too.
BuT nObOdY rUnS iT! i NeVeR sEe It! ItS oNlY 2 pEr MaTcH! What a strong argument. A completely bullshit perk is fine, cuz only a few people run it and extend chases/BM with it. A free uncounterable perk is totally fine. TOTALLY fine. Literally a stronger version of DS, but nah. It's gucci. It's a survivor perk, so it's fine.
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@Saint_Ukraine said:
Well, I'm glad queen pulled out the ol' User License Agreement on your ass. Very satisfying to see.
Yea, me too. Thanks for posting the ULA instead of addressing the outrage. You go girl.
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@twistedmonkey said:
Myers had his perks gutted and was changed so he can't stalk multiple people in one go anymore.
Leatherface had bbq nerfed so you can avoid the aura easier.
DS has been nerfed 4 times even though its still strong.
Many things have changed chars and perks people purchased.
I never once saw someone complain about a refund when they got changed even with Freddy being nerfed one week after.
Legion was designed to hit multiple survivors while in ff but the players quickly found a way to use that power instead to down a single one more effectively.
That is why they are being changed, the original concept is what they plan to make him into, just because you can't down with FF anymore without add-ons does not make the killer something they did not advertise as on the contrary what they are becoming is closer to what they actually advertised they would be.
Legion was supposed to be 4 people, not 2. The other two were locked behind cosmetics, so that's a strike there. Also, Legion got gutted so bad they might as well just be a survivor. This is $4 to play a killer who loses his power from almost every interaction, and even if you do use it, it doesn't do anything outside of a hit. Then you're just pressing W, and M1. He's so basic at this point it is painful to even consider Legion is anything but a cosmetics dummy.
There is nerfing something, changing something, then utterly gutting them and making them a basic #########. That's what Legion is. Last I checked you don't have to pay for Billy, Trapper, Wraith, all 115% killers that can just M1 if needed. You're buying a killer to m1 and that's about it. That's why people want refunds. Cuz he is NOT what people want, or asked for.
Not only did they gut him, but they just doubled down, and continue to nerf him without any regard for what people may think cuz it appeases the masses who for whatever ######### reason don't realize you can play the PTB Legion on live. M2, then chase M1. Only difference is you're 110, but you'l get them eventually! It's the most basic function in the game, and you paid $4 but you'll get them!
God people need to stop pretending like this is somehow an acceptable change. All this talk of, "Well now they can buff him." Yup, in a few years after no one plays him, and even then it'll take multiple "reworks", and he'll end up just getting nerfed throughout those anyway. Wraith Cube anyone?
Also, everyone was ticked off at Miguel's changes. They still bring up shadownerfs, bugs, and other issues/nerfs he got. To this day people still ask why he can't multi-stalk. Why DS was left so strong for 2 years, but Mikey's perks got utterly demolished the minute a new build became popular.
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@tomikomPL said:
Stop this crying about this perk ... survivors also need good perks and it isnt as strong as you think it is. Sometimes i really think that many people cry because they cant do 4k in every match ... Just focus on game and try your best. Remember you dont need 4k to have fun from game.
Imagine being so bad at a video game you need extra hits cuz you're 30 other crutches weren't enough. Christ.
Also, "THEY LISTEN TO FEEDBACK!" Oh boy, Legion can open lockers, so they gutted his cooldown addons too, and no other changes. They don't listen, they're reacting to the respective outrage to their terrible patches. After multiple ######### patches, and them just dumping on the community and ignoring them constantly people have good reason to be outraged.
People wanted Legion fixed, not removed from the god damn game. People want MoM fix cuz it's literally a free hit for playing the game with 0 downsides. Aura reading isn't scary, and if played right I can use it to just bump into Adrenaline, and it's end-game. Aura-reading doesn't suddenly remove pallets, windows, exhaust perks, etc.
MoM shouldn't exist, and they know it, but instead of addressing it, and nerfing it, they're gonna soak in as much as they can from the Ash DLC before changing it 2 years later.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/437761#Comment_437761
I never mentioned the pig but yes of course the dash is a power, it isnt a scary power or a stong power as she also has a secondary one to help slow the game down, her dash is in effect is just like the like legions FF it gets a hit in nothing else, the exception being FF gives a "free" hit where as the dash you can evade it by using a pallet or jumping a window or by simply creating distance if you see them crouching towards you forcing them out of it.
Yes pallets removes, you forget when it happens that the game has practically no pallets, I dont remeber you complaining when they gutted pallets and had none one whole side of the map at times, yes some have came back but that is due to a simple calculation and can be fixed, it doesnt change the fact that it happened and was that way for months, not to mention the bigger loops that had windows blocked and made smaller, sometimes people cant see changes unless its something they want to complain about.
Thats just a very biased viewpoint and I can guarantee the same could be said bythose survivor mains ion certain things, the only thing that took a really long time to fix was DS, every thing else has had multiple changes and it always goes back and they have always went back and forth for balance reasons.
Again a very biased viewpoint, if you look at these forums its mostly killers complaining, Reddit is mostly survivors, both sides only complain when it affect them directly, there are survivor videos showing problems with killers also so which side is more valid? people only see what they want to that suits their argument or if it changes something they dont like, its has always been an issue with this community it all about what someone or a small portion of player want when the majoirty really dont care.
How much you play or what you have done or spoke to is irrelevant, we all have experience with the game and many hours but this is not our game to pick and chose what we think should happen, we dont know the actual kill/live stats, we dont know anything about how people play each killer and how well they do, its all pure speculation, you know how many streamers out there with really large comunities also seeing and report things, some of them survviors mainly who may not agree with you, who should the devs then listen too?
The only ones who do know what is happening in the background are the devs, they make changes for balance, you may not like them but that is not to say they are wrong as balance is ongoing, its not make a change and leave it 100% its make this change and tweak it over time to get it right, the fact is the game was never meant to be this big, its a surprise hit, the devs have done well over the past 3 years to get here and all people do is give them ######### for changing things on both sides, that is not feedback its whining and crying as they dont like a change.
Really? most killers would have said since April last year killer gameplay had been made a lot better and for months it was in the best place since the game was made, more survivor nerfs have happened than ever before since BHVR got the rights, some changes now start to happen in favour over survivor in the past month or two and every killer on here loses it.
Balance is not about only once side, both sides will see many changes and some will be changed multiple times, its how it works, nothing is ever set in stone, everything is subject to change for the perfect 2 die 2 escape perfect game, thats the bottom line, its not about what you or other want, its about what is good for the overall game.
Since Legion came out the game has saw the largest decline of players for over a year, of course something major was going to happen to them but they are not as bad as people are making out, they may be less fun to some but if it works out that they still are fun and both sides now enjoy playing and versing then the bottom line is it works.
No one that I've seen is enjoying the new Legion. Killer gameplay is not better, but it doesn't matter. Literally the only people I see say that, are survivors. They all repeat it, they're so hive mind at times it's kinda terrifying. You can see people on these forums repeating each other without ever interacting with each other.
There's no point to this conversation. Nothing I say, will change how you feel, or what you say. So I'm gonna go play a better game.
Final note: Legion didn't kill the game, the multiple nerfs and other changes that NO ONE ASKED FOR, is killing the game. Such as Matchmaking.
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@Milo said:
For now only good build is the cd add-on combo.
(btw i feel like he's more add-on dependant than ever)
Even that's not nearly as good or fun. It's like the old cd.
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100%. I don't get how anyone enjoys not being able to use their power, losing all vision to the point it's headache inducing, and DSing yourself everytime you use your power. Anyone saying otherwise, never played Legion. You could play this way before, and even use double CD to make it more effective.
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@My_Dude said:
I can honestly not think of another killer who's gameplay, and power has been so radically altered and changed now.
Not even Freddy was hit -this- hard, at least his core gameplay stayed the same with the dreams.
I seriously want my money back. This was too much, it's not the Killer I was sold, it's not the killer I paid for, and it's not the killer I bought a cosmetic for.
Funny thing is this is a "rework" ie: balance changes, but not a total overhaul according to the devs. Scared to see what Freddy's "rework" will be cuz he's getting a legit overhaul.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/437680#Comment_437680
Exactly what I said in response to yourself so why do you think legions power needs to be scary and even mentiion it?
Any killer can get a cheeky hit but not a free hit its all part of mindgames.
The main reason the power has changed so much is not due to just survviors, its down to those that abused it, blame those who exploited the unintended side effect of the mechanic, how many killer sided patches has there been? did you also complain about them? yes it seems this one is more survivor sided but maybe the stats reflected it needed to be.
None of those are free hits, Huntress is the only one who gets "cheap" hits due to hitboxes but they are not free in the same way and that is something they are workin on fixing, the others will its again part of good play and mind gaming along with creating a situation for themselves be able to get those hits, Legion did not have to do any of that as they could multistab and be guaranteed a hit, anyone that could hit with the legion under those circumstances well that was a case of git gud, Legion was the only true definition of free hit not what you describe.
Are you kidding? looping has been stated as not fun for killers since 2016, camping has been stated as not fun for survivors since 2016, looping has had map reworks, pallets removed, perks to help with loops, camping has been the same with borrowed time, emblem changes etc, when it comes to things that are not fun both sides have had major changes to help them, just becasue you refuse to see them doesnt change the fact that they have happened.
Well DW never was a power, DW is a secondary effect, FF is the actual power which casues said effect, I dont quite understand why you would even state that.
So is Pig's Dash not a power? Powers can have multiple layers to them. I was against those Legions too, but it's clear they just listened to all the whining instead of talking to people who played Legion legit and enjoyed him. I wanted some flavor, not for them to cut off his limbs and toss him back into the game.
Pallets removed? You mean like the 15 on The Game? You mean the double pallets sprouting up lately? People still complain about how stupid maps are yet they never get any real changes. "We removed pallets." Yea, 1 pallet, oh boy. That really helps with the jungle gyms, fixes Cow tree, etc.
Difference is when it's not fun for killers we wait months to a year then get nerfed after the change. Huntress, Pig, etc. Survivors? Fixed with multiple perks, buffs, in-game mechanic changes, etc.
I see them, that's the difference. I can post videos, patch notes, it wouldn't matter. There's no changing people's minds. Survivors want easy games, but they'll cry and cry that killers are the ones begging for their side to be broken, and that all killers are simply OP. Just get good.
I play both sides, I've 100% the game, I have over 1700 hours. I've spoken to the devs, and I have a huge community of people and friends reporting what they see and what they experience. I don't just spout off on the forums, I speak from experience. There are hardly any killers worth a damn, and even less perks. Survivors want more variety, they want this, they want that, but they keep gutting killers and yet people wonder why they see Billy/Nurse so much.
It's almost like the game has been an unfun mess for killers for the past year, and they're fed up so they're just going to what works. Billy and Nurse.
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@OMagic_ManO said:
Now survivors can exploit the TR and just stealth around and hang around him or her, that's why Monitor and Abuse will help, I did recently suggest to change the Legion position to the countdown to TR before, regret it.
I had this happen. Stabbed 3 people, not a single bar dropped as I chased.
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@My_Dude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/437710#Comment_437710
Now he's crippled.
The only people I've seen happy with these changes are people that barely touch killer at all. I personally go 50/50, and did find Legion annoying, but not unmanagable unless he was using the eternal mend bug.
This change is basically how I played him before, but at least I could do double CD if I felt saucy, Frank's did something, and all I wanted was just some real stall, or something interesting to his kit. This was just them cutting off his limbs, and letting him roll around with a knife in his mouth.
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How to fix Legion.
No drain in TR, mending goes down while healing.
DW now adds a stacking debuff with a cap that cuts action speeds.
Can only be healed by other survivors, DW cannot down a survivor.
Boom. You have stall, and you can keep the current Legion minus the insane amount of debuffs they get now.
This change was absurdly harsh, and I don't get what they're thinking.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/437602#Comment_437602
Wraiths power is not a free hot though it has counter play so your point there is mute, a window or pallet completely negates that statement.
No killer power is scary, none are with two exceptions jump scare myers and possibly hag traps now and again, its not about it being scary its about it having a use and being fun for both sides and why not everyone plays every killer as some they just dont get.
The stun can easily be changed if its deemed too long, Nurse takes more skill to use, no other killer can even go over a pallet or through a window so that points is mute.
You still dont get the overall problem with Legion, their power is the actual problem, not every killer has a power that can help them in a chase its just how it is, now think how many killer get a free hit like the Legion does? overall that free hit is a major factor in helping end the chase, half the other killers could be looped for one or two gens before getting that first hit in but Legion gets that hit and can now follow like the other killers, trapper, pig, wraith, myers etc who dont get that free hit.
Nurse isn't scary or powerful. Neither is Billy, Hag, Huntress, Michael. No one worries about them at all, or gets jumpscared. If you're smart with Wraith you can usually get a cheeky hit.
Yea, fun for both sides, but this patch is completely survivor sided. I enjoy the rush down as Legion, but 4s fatigue, completely cuts my vision to the point I get a headache, addons require multiple stabs to apply. Everything drains your power, can't use your power unless full, power is worthless after first hit/against injured people(was before, but still).
Legion is the most generic killer now, and that's not fun. They could've easily made Deep Wounds something interesting. A stacking debuff is one off the top of my head.
Free hits? Depends, Nurse comes to mind, a good Huntress can, a sneaky Miguel, a Wraith who knows how to bodyblock, a well placed Hag Trap, etc. Powers should be fun and interactive. Not just a quick sprint, stab, then hold W and press space sometimes. Also, a free hit isn't scary, neither is being injured.
We always see, "Well it's not fun for survivors." but never have I once seen, "Well it's not fun for killers." It took us 3 years to get a concede button to stop surviors from holding the game hostage, and it's basically us opening the gates for them.
As for DW it's not even a power, it's just an excuse for them to keep buffing BT. Next patch they'll make it so BT applies to both again.
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@KateLover said:
Except when the killer closes the hatch doesn't it automatically open the exit gates?
They get powered.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/437388#Comment_437388
It looks to have been changed so that gates when a solo survivor is left after a killer closes the hatch doesnt take 40s to open, if that became meta no one would ever get out after the killer closed the hatch, this makes it very one sided and goes against how they wanted it to play out so the change is understandable.
Its also to get the EGC active quicker as most killer complaints were why dont they just leave, opening the gates was never hard even with remember me it was never hard just tedious and hence why it was rarely seen.
Gate opening wasn't the issue with people leaving. The issue was gates were open, game was done, and they held it hostage. You're really off the mark there. Keeping them inside with gates CLOSED and having time to find them is what people used RM for.
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/437442#Comment_437442
The power can now be seen as a way to get to objectives faster and still get a free hit wasting time.
Many killer powers dont give you the hit they simply enable you to get closer to them, Legion power wastes the survivor time, if they get multiple hit they can now chase effectively and the other has to mend and hopefully now want to heal.
Nurse DS's themselves each time they blink, Leatherface gets stuck in animation each time they miss with chainsaw, this happening to killers is nothing new.
Why should they by your words be able to get a FREE hit and apply debuffs on it? the other killers at least have to work for that hit hence it now take two with Legion.
How can you say they get a free hit with frenzy and then comlain hitting with frenzy doesnt do enough knowing its a free hit, that doesnt make any sense and shows why a change was needed as nothing should ever be a "free" hit.
*uncloaks as Wraith and hits you*
*applies Mangled*
:THINKING:
Legion's power isn't scary, debuffs aren't scary. Oh no, you're broken. Good thing you were already hurt, and no one heals anyway. Plague breaks you too and drops you down with a hit, that's why she's top tier and everyone mains her now right? Right? She's 115 she's fine, right? Guys? GUYS?!
Also, Legion legit DS's himself. 4 SECOND STUN. That's old DS everytime you fatigue. Nurse is roughly 2s, and she doesn't gently crawl over a pallet, or through a window. Once you get a hit your power is literally worthless. There's 0 reason to use your power after getting a hit. Everything you do removes your power. Getting stunned, missing, fatigue, M1ing, why even have a power at all?
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@twistedmonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/437380#Comment_437380
Thats the thing people complained about with the legion, the fact that they could get free hits and down you, moonwalking also meant a free easy down hence the whole no counter play argument.
Effectively this has just reduced it to one free hit while now giving counter play after that.
Most of the killers are in the same boat when it comes to looping even Billy, the fact that they can still get one free hit but can now chase as every other killer makes them stronger and not as bad as people say, its a reluctance to change how they played them.
You get one hit, then your power is literally worthless. You DS yourself everytime you fatigue. You lose a headache inducing amount of vision. You have to double stab to apply debuffs. DW is worthless. Also, I played this way BEFORE the changes, so that last argument is invalid.
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@LCGaster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/437380#Comment_437380
Now you don't have a free hit
You also have to hit twice to apply your debuffs. This patch is a joke.
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@Hoodied said:
(Time for an unpopular opinion) Hahaha, no, legion is different now, we need to learn them
I'm so tired of this. Legion isn't special. There's no tech, there's no "learning" them. You hit M2, get a free hit, then you walk around and get looped until you get a down. They're gutted, trash, you name it.
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Explains survivor mentality. If they don't like it, remove it so they can ######### about the next thing that inconveniences them. Legion needed a change, not removal.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/436996#Comment_436996
You get 50 meters out of it, as opposed to the ~32 meters you previously had. Of course, since you're so much slower, that might be an issue.
EDIT: I just did the math, if the survivor runs in a straight line from exactly 10 meters away or more, you will not catch up to them, assuming you're not running any add-ons.
Yea, and then you DS yourself. Everytime you use your power, you get DS'd. What a fun game mechanic. Also, they increased the blind so you get this tiny little pucker to see through and it's really annoying. Like, gives me a headache annoying. Also, after you stab someone there's no reason to use FF anymore. It's worthless, and got nerfed repeatedly.
On top of that, vault speed got nerfed, everything to nerfed, this new Legion sucks ass. Even with double CD it's just the old cd pre-nerf but slightly faster. So you can't even do that anymore.