About MoM...
Okay people, I get it. MoM can get frustrating. But look.. It's not as bad as a perk that you all believe it is. The reason the Developers probably created the perk was because they obviously had to balance the game somehow, especially with "Endgame" Coming into play in the near future. So the Next update will ONLY be in the killer's favor. And I applaud that they are trying to balance the game with this perk and that update. For example, if you watch Ohmwrecker's video about the Collapse, It is extremely easy to make people stuck inside the collapse. MoM will allow that extra push that the survivor has left to survive. And I know MoM sucks, I dealt with a David King who I basically hit like 4-5 times (The 5th hit he finally went down) and he was the only one I sacrificed. [I played as the Pig, just recently bought her.] But, I do understand where you all are coming from. But, nerfing it is not the answer. Until Endgame is released and we can see how MoM handles during the Endgame Update. So please understand that you have to patiently wait. Because the Next update is a HUGGGGE one. So stay calm and hunt on my friends.
--Micheal Myers
Comments
@sairek It has as more counter play than Legion vaulting a pallet
Like what? Don't hit you? Please, I want to hear this counterplay. You all spout off about how easy it is to deal with MoM, but everyone runs it, cuz it has no counterplay outside of chainsaws, insta-down perks, etc. There is no set-counter. Also, who cares if Legion vaults a pallet? They nerfed the hell out of him anyway, now he's slower than you are.
@Caretaker there have been more games where I have died in the end and MoM never activated. Don’t act like you have never played a game where MoM doesn’t activate. You’re basing your bias opinion on nerfing a perk too challenging for you.
Can say for a fact I’ve NEVER played a game where Legion didn’t vault a pallet, before and during the PTB.
Ah yes, the old, "You don't know what you're talking about." Argument. How classy. I dont' play Legion, and I totally don't run MoM every game cuz it's so stupidly broken I can play like an idiot and save my likewise idiot friends.
I am literally clueless as to how this game works. Also, where are these counters for it? I don't see it any outside of, "I died, and didn't get to use my broken as ######### perk." "I died so I didn't get to use Adrenaline, what a trash perk, god."
Also, "It's too challenging for you." Is that why you're a survivor main? :^)
@Caretaker if it didn’t get used then it got countered. It apparently has counters otherwise you’d use it most every match but in my experience on both sides it doesn’t get used commonly.
That's why I see it every match, that's why I run it every match, and people not getting it doesn't mean it got countered. Again, answer the question. What are the counters? What if you don't play a "power" killer? I had it not proc one match, it got countered by me leaving the match through the exit gate, and not going down. :^)
@Caretaker if you died and it didn’t activate did it not get countered? Certain killers and perks can counter it.
Again, name them. Also, you're saying that I am required to play with THOSE perks, and THOSE killers to stop an overpowered perk?
Wow, kill the survivor. What a novel concept. I'll just camp OBS on the hook I guess. Since that's the only counter.
@Caretaker i mean I can throw around screenshots of hours I play too if I want to feel more confident about myself and change my dramatically incorrect assumptions about how op something is that I don’t like. But proving someone like you wrong wouldn’t make a difference cause you’re a killer main with an agenda!
Ah, see I actually play both sides unlike you. That's the difference. I don't pretend something isn't broken cuz I'm not good enough to use it properly. I'm not gonna say something isn't broken cuz I require it to win. I ran stupid as ######### builds before and still live cuz it's that easy. No Mither, Plunder, SB, Resil. You'd say 3/4ths of those perks are trash I guarantee.
I showed screenshots to show I play both sides, and I have experience. It's kinda hypocritical of you to screech that I have an agenda while failing to provide counters, and tossing an agenda yourself. I see you two liking each other's comments too. I'm a killer main after all so, guess I'll blame SWF here.
@Caretaker let me completely disqualify every opinion you’ve verbally accused me of to push forward your personal agenda as a killer main in disguise. Now you’re completely discredited about making assumptions of people from here on out. And this is ONLY on console, not including PC hours Enjoy :)
@Caretaker well since you failed to read it I said “if it didn’t activate and I died did it not get countered?”
Legion, Plague, Leatherface, hillbilly, huntress,Nea, Trapper,Make your choice, Noed,Iron maiden, Bloody coil,Nea,Michael Myers and Nea. Keep in mind most of these aren’t guaranteed counters.
So, you can make assumptions and that's ok, but when I do it's not? Sounds like a hypocrite to me, so at least that's not an opinionated statement. :^) Also, I thought screenshots didn't count? Also, 4121 kills in 2400 hours? That's it?
Legion doesn't counter MoM, I can show you the video of someone using MoM against my Legion if you want. Ah yes, Plague, what a STRONG killer. Also, really hard to counter if they don't bother healing and you don't get corrupt purge, but again not a true counter there. I'll nod that one to you.
LF does IF you can saw someone, and we all know how much fun that is, and how easy it is to do. Hillbilly, yup. Huntress, yup, though everyone is quitting her, especially after PTB. Trapper only does if you get trapped, pay attention. MYC is only good on a few killers, and just stay immersed. Iron Maiden? That's a lul, but fair enough. Blood Coil could, but you can just heal and stealth? Miguel can instadown you, but that'd require 3 instadowns and never hit a survivor without it, and never give them an extra hit. This means no BT, no DS.
Fair enough on them not being guaranteed, but that proves my point. The "counters" outside of Billy chainsawing you, which let's face it proper looping will force an M1 from him, same with Huntress, and LF, there is no real counter.
@Caretaker that is why I said they weren’t guaranteed. Imo Nea is the strongest counter I listed. :b
@Caretaker not only should you never be considered when it comes to balancing games, you should also work on your math, there’s 1555 escapes included in those 2395 hours. 😂
That's my point. There is no real counter to MoM outside of "Soft" counters that can easily be avoided.
Are you saying you struggle to escape or? I didn't mention your escapes, what the ######### does that have to do with math? I get your name is speshul, but I thought it was a nickname not a title. I'd be fine at balancing games cuz I can actually look past something outside of my own personal agenda. :^) I hate Doc, but I want him to be buffed. I think Billy needs a tweak, and Nurse's addons need to be adjusted.
Then again you don't know me, nor have you had more than this conversation with me, but you know literally everything about how I think and what I do, cuz that's just what you do. You assume a bunch of #########, toss assumptions, then rapid fire to defend any point you make instead of thinking maybe you could be wrong. Prove me wrong, please. I'm right here reading.
I saw you play killer, you got feast. Cool.
I just tunnel the MoM with NoED.
It's scummy, it's toxic, but so is the perk.
Consider your grits kissed, Ash.
I had games where MoM literally screwed them 'cause they were the last one left and I could see them. I do a lot of smacking people off of gens and sometimes don't even notice it going off. People are making it out to be worse than it is. (For the ones comparing it to DS) The issue with DS from my understanding is that it took away from early game pressure and was free at the start. While you may not consider it something to do, you still need to get hit with an M1 attack (which can be denied by those who can use M2 ones). That's still something that needs to happen. It isn't free and it even comes with a downside (killers being able to see you).
@TreemanXD I appreciate the Nea you snuck into there. 💜 EDIT: 2 Neas XD Nea is a really strong killer c:
The problem with MoM, is it is a FREE HIT, for just playing the game. Using it properly completely screws a killer and extends a chase longer than it should be, aka, old DS. You can make this even worse with perks such as Dead Hard. Also, if you loop well you will be M1'd cuz they cannot get their M2's off. I see plenty of killers default to M1's due to rough loops that waste too much time attempting to M2.
@Caretaker it means that 2400 hours are not solely dedicated to 4121 kills. There’s also 1555 escapes WITHIN those 2400 hours, I don’t expect you to understand anything about the survivor side though! Btw how many survivor escapes and kills do you have?
I don't know, cuz I play on PC. I do have a 4TB harddrive filled with games from both sides, and quad iri'd everything possible.
Also, that has nothing to do with math, or what I said about you playing killer so I have no clue why you keep bringing it up, so I'll keep with my first thought that it's a title not a nickname.
@Caretaker well then you’ve proved nothing but your hours. Nothing else more to go off but your words of the generic “i pLaY bOtH sIdEs eQuAlLy, bTw nErF mOm, nOeD iS fInE”
A free hit would be implying you've done absolutely nothing to do it. Whether you like to admit it or not, it has something you need to do (get hit) and has a down side (aura being seen or being 1 shot). It's also likely to occur not at the start, but mid game where you should be realistically snowballing pressure. If you want to argue that a survivor shouldn't be rewarded for "failing" multiple times in a row, should we make the same argument with pallet stuns and Spirit Fury? This is coming from someone who doesn't mind either of the perks, but killers have perks where you fail multiple times in a row to get rewarded. And they don't have a downside to go along with it, so I think the survivor version is fair because of that.
Old DS was trash 'cause you could use it at the start for no reason. You didn't have to do anything to activate it. It took away a lot of pressure from early game, which was so important for Killers. @Caretaker
Where did I say NOED is fine? Again, thank you for proving my point that you're just a salty survivor main. You may play killer, but you're very clearly biased. Also, I'm just gonna point and laugh at the fact you have trouble with NOED which has a set counter and it's SUPER ######### easy to stop and has a perk to help, while MoM doesn't.
Also, since you wanna do math:
4121, let's round that to 4100 for nice rounded numbers. Out of 2400 hours. Let's assume each match lasted around 5~10.
We're gonna divide kills by hours: 0.585~, so roughly .6 kills an hour. I'm gonna be nice, and say games extended to 10 minutes, so that means, you got 3.6 killers an hour, out of 6 matches. That's 3.6 out of a potential 24. I definitely trust you when it comes to playing killer.
A free hit would be implying you've done absolutely nothing to do it. Whether you like to admit it or not, it has something you need to do (get hit) and has a down side (aura being seen or being 1 shot).
Wow, take hits, aka play the game like you normally do. How shocking, how difficult to obtain. Aura reading isn't scary, I'm still gonna loop you, or just save it for end-game and leave anyway. 1-shots have nothing to do with MoM. That's based on the killer/player, not the perk, it's not a downside. Also, you get a literally free hit. Just don't heal and boom you can ignore ANYTHING IN THE GAME THAT WOULD DOWN YOU.
It's also likely to occur not at the start, but mid game where you should be realistically snowballing pressure.
Ah, the good old "apply pressure" argument. The classic. Was wondering when this was show up. Killers have no real end-game, and with EGC we have even LESS end game pressure. Pressure for killers is praying survivors aren't burning gens, wasting too much time with loops, and that they're altruistic/wasting time healing. We don't have any real say unless playing a top-tier killer, and survivors are potatoes. Keyword there, "AND". .,
If you want to argue that a survivor shouldn't be rewarded for "failing" multiple times in a row, should we make the same argument with pallet stuns and Spirit Fury?
Oh yea, I have to waste 2 perks for SF to be effective, SF, and Enduring. This is confirmed by BHVR as balanced because it was designed to REQUIRE ENDURING to be effective. Also, you can literally turn off two perks by dropping a pallet early. Congratulations you've countered Enduring, and Spirit Fury. The killer now has 2 perks. It was that easy to do. You have plenty more pallets and jungle gyms to use as well. Be smart about your pathing.
This is coming from someone who doesn't mind either of the perks, but killers have perks where you fail multiple times in a row to get rewarded. And they don't have a downside to go along with it, so I think the survivor version is fair because of that.
It doesn't matter whether you like the perk or not. That doesn't determine it's strength. People hate No Mither, but I love it for the challenge. Doesn't make it a good perk. What perks do killers have that reward you for failing multiple times? Please, name them off. There isn't any, unless you're gonna say NOED and NOED has a counter unlike MoM. Also, comparing perks is stupid, they're two different gameplay styles/mechanics.
Old DS was trash 'cause you could use it at the start for no reason. You didn't have to do anything to activate it. It took away a lot of pressure from early game, which was so important for Killers. @Caretaker
I never said anything about old DS? I wanted it removed. New one isn't as bad, but it also punishes you for snowballing so, that's fun.
Sure MoM is cool and all but have you ever heard of No Mither?
It is a godtier perk, even better than MoM. 👹
MoM is too powerful against M1 killers. The only "counter" is to camp the MoM users to death or to tunnel them off the hook and mori them. And do we want to encourage killers to play that way?
Several MoMs per game combined with the already existing 2nd chances is too much.
@Caretaker you’re math is not wrong, but it’s incomplete and lacking facts, but I’m not surprised. You failed to include the survivor time (1555 escapes) within the 2400 hours. Don’t touch math, leave it to people who understand it. I will link where you defended nOeD until you’re last breath.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/369574#Comment_369574
Like I said, stick to your killermain fairytales.
Are you dyslexic or? Cuz I wanna know if you're just stupid or have a disability. If it's the latter, sorry for making fun of you, if not, you're stupid. Also, that thread isn't relevant to this one, if you cleansed totems as hard as you grasp at straws you'd have no issue with NOED. Then again you're a survivor main who thinks the game is hard, so there's not much else left here to do but laugh at you.
I didn't bring up your escapes, cuz as I said multiple times now, I know you're a survivor main I was interested in if you actually played killer, which you're right. Thanks for proving that you hardly ever play killer. I thought it was clear, but here, let's double that, now you've got 7/24. Wingo, you're really putting the spurs to 'em!
Easy way to tell you're a survivor main is you're hard-headed, refuse to admit you're wrong, put words in my mouth, try to use previous unrelated threads to back up your non-existent argument, constantly throw assumptions, and then act high and mighty after you just ######### all over the thread with a bunch of nonsensical posts. Have fun in fairytale survivor crutch land where the game plays for you, but it's definitely your "skill". We'll continue discussing balance with people who don't cry when they see "Exposed" on their screen.
@Caretaker you’re really good at trying to describe others the exact way you are yourself. You’re arguments are invalid, if ANYONE searches your name in the search bar your arguments are COMPLETELY based on defending every crutch a killer has or nerfing every advantage a survivor has. Don’t believe me? Search your own name in the queue 😂😂
What a riveting response. It's so generic I think you actually might have had to put thought into it. You think NOED is a problem, and think cleansing totems is difficult.
Inb4 generic insult, you're a killer main, NOED is a crutch, you're just bad, lul.
Using it properly completely screws a killer and extends a chase longer than it should be, aka, old DS.
Is mentioning DS last time I checked. I mentioned DS in the first place 'cause I see a lot of people are complaining about MoM being like the old DS or the next old DS and I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are saying. It's like the people who complain about Adrenaline. It can be really strong depending on the situation, but it could also be a wasted slot. Especially if you don't get to end game.
I think you're not taking into account that you may not be in a good position. If you're afraid of being found and refuse leaving safe areas, you're likely not getting the gens done that's important. You're not going for the save 'cause you know I can see you and intervene. It isn't like OoO where you can see the killer, too. There's ways to work around it. Some people just don't adapt, I guess.
Is mentioning DS last time I checked.
Fair point. Only time I mentioned it, was cuz you all were.
I mentioned DS in the first place 'cause I see a lot of people are complaining about MoM being like the old DS or the next old DS and I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are saying.
It's literally a free hit without the stun. It doesn't require you to go down either. Just take hits. Easily done by bodyblocking. You even get the hit sprint burst.
It's like the people who complain about Adrenaline. It can be really strong depending on the situation, but it could also be a wasted slot. Especially if you don't get to end game.
That's why no one runs Adrenaline right? Right? Right?
I think you're not taking into account that you may not be in a good position. If you're afraid of being found and refuse leaving safe areas, you're likely not getting the gens done that's important.
That's why I said earlier to figure out your path, and make it safe. If I refuse to leave a safe area, you're still wasting time while 3 other people do gens, I'll probably get hit too, but I'm safe so you'll leave, I'll heal and boom. MoM is active for end-game.
You're not going for the save 'cause you know I can see you and intervene. It isn't like OoO where you can see the killer, too. There's ways to work around it. Some people just don't adapt, I guess.
Ok? Then I'll just do gens while someone else saves? Or I'll go save with BT, or just eat the hit anyway cuz I'm full health then loop you?
There is no adapting to something that doesn't have a counter. The "adapting" here is suck it up cuz it won't be changed, cuz for some reason second chances are the only thing survivors think matter. Not skill, not proper play, no. Second chances. I asked you what the counters were, and even you said there really isn't any outside of 2-3 killers, and a perk people generally don't run.
Counter-Play? Exposed perks. Or Slugging.
Thats it.
Yup, so MYC, or DH(Like you'll get 3 stacks, or more than one hit out of it.) NOED if they don't cleanse totems, but they'll have it by then, just don't heal. Slugging, well rip slugging. That's actually hurting you. Cuz now you're risking them getting up and healed, so more hits for MoM.
@Caretaker keep up the insults I love how they're your only comeback. WE will stick to discussing proper balance and FACTS while you keep screeching to every valid argument that counters yours.
So if I scroll back up and go through your history I won't ever find a single insult or you literally just repeating my insults back to me, because god forbid you use your brain for anything? The FACTS are that you're a terrible player and holding m1 is difficult. For the love of god, I hope they don't ever consider your drivel when it comes to balance. The game is awful enough as it is.
@Gamzello No Mither OP nerf please.
@fluffybunny 1,2,3 3 Neas!
@Caretaker As I said, I mentioned it initially 'cause people compare it to old DS a lot. In my initial post:
(For the ones comparing it to DS)
The killer doesn't get stunned. If I see you injured on a gen and I smack you and you get MoM, I still can provide pressure, especially if you're with others. And why would I go to a safe area with no gens just 'cause you're over there? I'm not. Like if I see you working on a gen that's important or going for the save, I'll intervene, but you're hindering your team if you do neither and I'll mess with you when either everyone else is killed or downed or you're doing something useful to your team.
Mettle Of Man will deactivate the next time you are put into the Dying State.
If I smack you 'cause you're being annoying and you choose to run to an area with nothing, I don't need to follow you and down you, just to leave you on the ground. Or were you saying I'd smack you and you'd make the aura portion active by healing? You don't remove the aura portion from healing if that's what you were trying to say. I'm honestly not sure.
MoM should only activate when a person may be second stage, unless you're hitting and leaving people a lot. I would be for adding a BT affect to the person hit (so they waste extra time), but I still don't think it's as strong as some are making it out to be.
I asked you what the counters were, and even you said there really isn't any outside of 2-3 killers, and a perk people generally don't run.
I also said you can do hit & run to get MoM through early, that way they aren't trolling you end game with it and have to actually be careful with what you do. If you aren't going on long chases and pressuring generators, hitting people off, it won't show up as much of an issue. A lot of killers find someone and try to chase them for 5 gens, though.
Not everything needs an obvious counter. What's the counter for Franky's, for instance? You've already brought in an item. Don't get hit? Gl with that. Things like Tinker and M&A you need to change your playstyle, too. It isn't just an obvious counter and some things may require you to play differently than you usually do. If you hit someone with MoM but don't down them, that gives you aura reading until you do. You can go and pressure the important areas (like if you're setting up a three gen strat or are using discordance and see two people working on a gen) and just return to them if they're pressuring an area you don't want them.
I'm comparing them to killer perks 'cause I'm assuming you'll be familiar with them and I'm trying to help you understand where I'm coming from when I say it isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. Like Adrenaline? Maybe. It isn't like it's not strong. The next old DS? No.
Though I'm wondering if you think Adrenaline is an OP, unfair perk.
@Caretaker try searching your own history in the queue while you're at it, you can use some time to reflect on what your definition of "balance" really is.
@TreemanXD Dx I missed the third!
So, there is no real counter outside of waste time and get it out early? Sweet MoM is gone, and I've only lost 3 gens. Worth it. o/
MoM is not strong. Major streamer tweets about DS getting nerfed, but now they have MoM so suck it killer mains. :thinking:
Counter to Franklin's? Really? One, who actually runs Franklin's compared to MoM, and if you want to go that route, what's the counter to instaheals? BNPS? 4 toolboxes? We get Franklin's, and still have to HIT you. Also, if they have Franklin's, you go pick your item back up. Congrats, you countered Franklin's. Or better yet, die in a locker with a white ward. Drop the item in a safe spot and go get it after the game is done.
Tinkerer and M&A are easy, you have this neat mechanic called a 3rd person camera. Killers also have a bright red stain that shows up and often times goes through walls. Also, who runs Tinkerer?
I don't know how many times I can say aura reading isn't scary. Not a single time have I hesitated to heal to full, if I even bothered to heal, cuz I have Adrenaline, so I just rushed the gens and they only got 30s of aura reading off me, which I still just walk out, or loop.
What killer perks? I asked you to name them, cuz you keep bringing them up, but never name them. Also yea, Adrenaline is totally fine, it's not why everyone runs it or anything. Not like gens can be burnt through in a few minutes, and there's no real pressure/fear of not getting it off if you're not a potato.
Whatever the ######### you want, I want the opposite of. "NOED IS UNCOUNTERABLE REEEE" Lul.
"Inb4 generic insult, you're a killer main, NOED is a crutch, you're just bad, lul." Gottem.
@Caretaker Caretaker: "Another forum member defending something I want changed, must be a survivor main, time to insult, REEEEEEEE!"
"Inb4 generic insult, you're a killer main, NOED is a crutch, you're just bad, lul." Gottem.
"So if I scroll back up and go through your history I won't ever find a single insult or you literally just repeating my insults back to me, because god forbid you use your brain for anything?" GOTTEM.
@Caretaker @Speshul_Kitten this is going nowhere. Y’all might wanna stop b4 someone gets banned.
Wouldn't be the first time. Also, having a good convo with fluffy at least. I do wanna go watch some videos so, y'all have fun. Speshul I'll be back in a few months while you seethe and reee over what I said here cuz apparently you remember that stuff while I bounce for however many weeks I leave the forums for. Peace. <3
Not sure what you're trying to say with your first sentence.
I'll say this and I'll only say this once. This isn't a "we" versus "you." This is an "us." That's how you alienate people, which won't help bringing people over to your understanding.
You can pick your item back up until it's depleted or have you forgotten how the higher tiers of Franky's work? I'm giving a comparison. It's a free smack the item out of your hand perk. Survivors don't have a free smack add-ons out of your hand perk. Maybe get rid of MoM and give us that instead? c: I'm sure you would looove that.
There's crap I don't like, either. Insta-heals usually feel rather mindless. That isn't to detract from my point: Killers have "free" stuff, too. Free pallet break, free item drop, free kill end game. To pretend they don't is short sighted.
I used Tinker and M&A as examples not because there isn't counters, but because you need to change what you're doing. It's like when you're facing a Michael with M&A versus a killer with a normal terror radius. You need to be looking around and paying attention. That was the point that soared so far above your head, apparently.
I'm giving you examples and you're saying I'm wrong 'cause you feel like it. o-o I'm thinking I'm gonna stop.
@Caretaker Never said I didn't insult you, but I give you facts and you choose to ignore them and insult cause you're wrong. Anyway while you're at it , again (if you can get it through your thick skull), search your name in the queue, then tell us "you play both sides evenly."