CLAUDETTEINABUSH
CLAUDETTEINABUSH
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@DetailedDetriment said:
Yes, Cunningham is still suing for the rights to the Friday The 13th franchise and its likeness. He actually launched another lawsuit because he lost the first lol.
This basically
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Because a perk is used often that doesn't mean it should be nerfed. I personally use it for the bloodpoints and not the aura reading. I believe it's a good perk because it gives you aura reading, which is necessary for your next move, and bloodpoints because everyone needs em.
Basically what you say is: I wanna make it harder for killers to get bbq stacks if toxic, but there really is no reason to do that
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As a guy who doesn't have a job, the grind is too much
But they did say they wanna address this issue in a livestream
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I chose claud as a survivor, after I thought of my name and because she fits my playstyle (darkest cosmetics? On it)
I've changed mains a lot as killer. I used to main trapper, but dropped him for doc. Then I dropped doc for spirit, and then I dropped spirit for hag. Trapper and doc were simply fun and felt really good when you predicted survivors, but they lacked map pressure. I played spirit because she's a good killer, without stridor because I wanted to play fairly, but I got tired of her and wanted something new. After watching 300 michi videos I decided that hag would be my next killer. She's both fun to play and hard to master, something that I quite enjoy. And she has one of the most unique playstyles. I wonder what my next main will be, maybe pig :p
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@WoopinAngel said:
INTRODUCTION (YOU DONT HAVE TO READ THE ENTIRE POST BUT PLEASE READ THIS):
I haven't started writing this yet, but I can guarantee you that this will be a long post. This is an idea I've had for a while now, and I've refined it so that it could lighten some of the issues the game currently has, such as:
- Tunneling
- Camping
- Survivors being sacrificed even though there are some people who have yet to be hooked
- An end to the hook vs kills debate
I don't expect this to be the be-all and end-all for this game or for it to even catch the dev's attention. However, if whoever's reading this could share your support, build off my idea, or even tell me why my idea is a flaming pile of #########, I would greatly appreciate it.
I'll include a tl;dr at the end of every following section if you want to quickly read it, as well as a final TL;DR at the end summarizing the entire post.
THE CURRENT ISSUE:
What's currently wrong with the game is what is arguably the most optimal way to play as the killer if you're trying to go for kills, which the game rewards. By killing even just one survivor as early as possible, it makes it incredibly difficult for the remaining three survivors to get any generators completed (assuming both killer and survivor are equally skilled).
If the killer hooks one of the remaining three survivors, then optimally, one of the two survivors will go for the save while the other finishes repairing a generator. If the killer finds one of the remaining two survivors, however, then the three survivors can't finish repairing generators because they're either:
- On the hook
- Going to save the survivor on the hook
- Being chased by the killer
Pair this situation with some gen slowdown perks such as Ruin or Pop, and it's extremely likely that the game will end with at least three people dead. Even though there are perks in the game that encourage getting as many survivors hooked as possible (BBQ, Devour Hope, and No Way Out when the Trickster comes out), the killer will easily get stacks because of how much pressure they can apply to the survivors with only three of them left alive.
Although there are some survivor perks that prevent tunneling such as Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, and Babysitter, these perks could be countered if the killer goes for the same survivor every other hook.
Stealth is also an option that survivors who are dead on hook could apply, but by playing extremely safe and hiding whenever the killer is moderately close to you, you may as well be dead. Besides, there are several perks, add-ons, and abilities killers have to find survivors. (Perks such as Barbecue and Chili or Infectious Fright, any aura reading add-ons like Myers' Scratched Mirror or Wraith's "All Seeing" - Blood, and the Doctor's Static Blast or Legion's Feral Frenzy).
Although you can take hits for a survivor who's dead on hook and possibly even go down for them, the killer has no reason to stop going after the dead-on-hook survivor. They could very well just ignore you and keep chasing after the survivor who's dead on hook because their death is more valuable than hooking you for the first time.
tl;dr:
If the killer wants the 4k, it's optimal to kill one survivor as quickly as possible, while some survivors have yet to be hooked. This is bullshit.
My suggestion:
If a shared hook counter was made in the game, I believe that would fix several things wrong with the game. Here's what I mean by this:
Currently, if the killer spreads out their hooks across the survivors, the survivors can be hooked a total of 8 times before they're all dead on hook (assuming no one goes to second stage on their first hook). This play style isn't optimal but is considered fair and dignified for killers to play this way among the community. What if we made it so that the killer has to hook survivors a collective total of 8 times before they can kill anyone?
The survivors would all share a hook counter. Every time a survivor gets hooked or for every minute a survivor stays on the hook, the hook counter will go up by 1. Once the hook counter reaches 8, all subsequent hooks will lead to death. This is similar to how the current hook stages work, except rather than each survivor only being able to be hooked twice before dying, all the survivors have to be hooked a collective total of 8 times before any of them can die.
The way stages work will be the same. When you're hooked for the first time, you can still attempt to escape, losing 20 seconds for each failed attempt. Every hook following your first hook will be spent in the struggle stage. Currently, if you spend a minute in the struggle phase, you immediately die. However, with the hook counter, you would continue to stay in the struggle phase, but the hook counter goes up by 1. If the hook counter is already at 8, and you've spent a minute in the struggle phase, then you will die.
Also, to prevent situations where survivors get one-hooked, if a survivor has been hooked for the first time after the hook counter has already reached 8, then they would enter the first phase without dying. Other survivors can still go rescue the survivor on the hook and this also gives the survivor to use Deliverance if they have it active. However, if the survivor spends a minute on the hook, then they will immediately die. This would encourage the killer to hook each survivor at least once before the hook counter reaches 8, because doing otherwise gives the survivors extra lives.
TL;DR:
Make it so that survivors have to be hooked a collective total of 8 times before any of them can die. If a survivor is hooked for the first time after the 8 hooks have already been used, then they enter phase 1 but don't immediately die until they've spent a minute on the hook or fail the escape attempts.
HOW THIS WILL ALLEVIATE SOME ISSUES:
I'll go one-by-one with how my hook counter idea could potentially fix the issues I've mentioned in the introduction.
TUNNELING:
Let's say the killer tunnels a survivor such that they only hook that one survivor and nobody else. In the current game, that survivor would die after being hooked three times, leading to the 3v1 situation I've mentioned above.
With the hook counter, that one teammate would have to be hooked a total of 9 times before they would die. This gives the single survivor several more chances to keep playing the game despite constantly being tunneled. Also, the survivor will still most likely escape because the other survivors could finish the generators before the killer can hook the tunneled survivor for the 9th time. For killers, it would be most optimal not to tunnel as to spread pressure across more survivors.
Also, if the killer gets the hook counter to 8 by hooking only one survivor the entire match, then they'd have to hook the remaining three survivors twice each because they would be hooked for the first time
CAMPING:
If the killer is camping a teammate, preventing everyone else on the team from safely rescuing the survivor on the hook, in the current game, that survivor would die after two minutes on the hook. In those two minutes, one survivor could fix one-and-a-half generators, which means that all three survivors collectively could only complete four and a half generators. This number doesn't take into account the time it takes to travel between generators, the time spent hovering close to the hooked survivor in hopes that the killer leaves, and also assumes that multiple survivors aren't working on the same generator. (Because each survivor individually repairs slower if multiple survivors are on the same generator). The number also assumes that the killer doesn't have any slowdown perks such as Thanataphobia or Dying Light.
With the hook counter, if the killer camps a single survivor on the hook. It would take that survivor 8 minutes before they died. Although this turns the game into a 3v1, even if there's only one survivor working on generators, that one survivor could finish all five generators in 6 minutes and 40 seconds, which leaves 1 minute and 20 seconds for travel time between generators. This leaves the survivors plenty of time to finish repairing all the generators while the killer is camping. Again, these numbers assume that the killer doesn't have any slowdown perks.
If the killer's objective is to camp the one survivor to death, then there's not much you can do which is unfortunate. However, if the killer is trying to get the 4k, it would be optimal to not camp survivors and instead go for chases and other hooks because the killer wants to keep applying pressure to the survivors.
Also, if the killer gets the hook counter to 8 by camping a single survivor for 8 minutes, the killer would still need to hook the remaining three survivors at twice each because they have yet to be hooked. This opens up a counter to camping. If a survivor runs Deliverance and Decisive Strike, they can trade hooks with the camped survivor, get hooked, and use Deliverance to escape from the hook (because they haven't been hooked yet), and then use Decisive Strike if the killer picks them up.
SURVIVORS DYING BEFORE OTHER TEAMMATES HAVE BEEN HOOKED:
As described in the tunneling and camping sections, if the hook counter reaches 8 and some survivors haven't been hooked yet, then those survivors have an extra life that the killer gave them. If the killer wants to make it so that they don't needlessly give the survivors extra lives, then it would be in the killer's best interest to hook each survivor at least once by the time the counter reaches 8. Although this suggestion doesn't necessarily "fix" this problem, it makes it so that it disadvantages the killer if they haven't hooked all the survivors yet.
HOOKS VS. KILLS:
The current issue with the "hooks vs. kills" debate is that the number of hooks you get is not related to the number of kills you get. With how the game currently is, you could kill a survivor in three hooks, or you can hook a total number of 8 times without anyone dying. This inconsistency also makes it difficult for the developers to balance the game.
To get your first kill in the current game, you will need between 3 and 9 hooks. A 6 hook difference is huge. In the event that the first survivor dies after the 3rd hook, then the match is in favor of the killer as it turns the game into a 3v1. In that case, the loops would have to be survivor-sided to buy survivors more time in chases, which will allow the remaining two survivors to fix generators for longer. However, if the game was made so that there are more survivor-sided loops, then the killer will have a harder time securing any hooks or kills in a match, which turns the match in favor of the survivors. This endless cycle of balancing loops is difficult, as one survivor could die really early or the killer can't get any hooks in the early game depending on how the loops are structured.
With the shared hook counter, it makes the number of hooks you get more related to the kills you get. Every game, by your 8th hook you won't have any survivors killed. Also, assuming that each survivor has been hooked once by the time the counter reaches 8, then on your 9th hook, you get one kill, on your 10th you get your second kill, 11th is your third kill, and 12th is your fourth kill. Allowing the game to progress in this healthy manner without anyone dying early will make it so that loops can finally be balanced with some readjusting. If killers are getting hooks too quickly, then loops need to be more in favor of the survivors. And if killers are not getting hooks fast enough, then the loops need to be more in favor of the killer.
TL;DR:
If the killer tunnels one survivor, then the killer has to hook an additional 3 times they could have avoided if they hadn't tunneled.
If the killer camps one survivor, then it will take that one survivor 8 minutes to die, which buys the rest of the survivors more than enough time to finish the generators and possibly go for the save.
Leaving any survivors unhooked before the counter reaches 8 results in having to hook additional times that you could have avoided.
Directly relating the number of hooks the killer gets with the number of kills they get allows the devs to have a more accurate way of evaluating balance in the game between survivors and killers.
IN CONCLUSION:
By adding my shared hook counter idea, camping and tunneling won't be as effective strategies for killers. Not only does it encourage the killer to spread out their hooks among the survivors, but it also will make matches more consistent, which gives the devs an easier idea of how to balance the game in the future. I know this idea does have its flaws, but compared to how the game is currently, I think this is a much-needed improvement. That bout does it. Thank you for reading this lengthy post, but I truly believe this is something that needs to be said.
FINAL TL;DR:
Make it so that the survivors have to be hooked a collective total of 8 times before any of them can die. Also, if the survivors have been hooked a total of 8 times, any survivor that hasn't been hooked yet will be granted an extra hook before they die. This means if the killer tunnels a single survivor, they would have to hook that survivor 9 times before they die, but this also makes it so that the remaining three survivors have to be hooked twice each before dying, which means the killer would have to hook 15 times in total by tunneling. This situation can be avoided by hooking each survivor at least once before the counter reaches 8 and, is in fact, ideal for the killer.
EDIT 1:
I accidentally dropped my mouse and clicked post. Don't ask, even I'm not sure how it happened. I will edit this post again when I finish writing it, stay tuned.
EDIT 2:
Thank you to those who've already responded to my post! I see the notifications of several responses and I can't wait to read them as soon as I finish this! As I didn't finish typing my idea when I accidentally clicked post the first time, I would greatly appreciate it if you guys would read my finished idea and share your thoughts!
You have a really good gamesense, but I disagree with your idea entirely. Imagine if the survivors have a p3 claud that hides in bushes all the time, she's not even doing gens. That means that it's quite literally impossible to find her, the only possible way to do that is aura reading.
Now, a different example. A swf keeps messing with you while one person is doing gens. They're not afraid that they'll die since the one guy will be on the hook. Since survivors also have hook counters, your idea could massively backfire and reward stealth over good looping skills, so the game will basically become hide and seek.
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Excuse me, but if you don't find a reason to play this game, then why don't you quit? Furthermore since you'll quit, then why share that with the community? You basically make a post that you're not going to be part of the community, if so then, who cares?
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That's extremely foolish
You say that we should ban immersed gamers, in an immersed game?
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2000634#Comment_2000634
If you wanted to test it and come back with a confirmation, that would be swell. I can't get IM to pop up on my bloodweb as Trickster, so I have not been able to test it myself. I've only had the word of other testers to go off of.
Unfortunately I can't because I returned to regular dbd after having to wait a 30 minute queue for my 5th time in a row :(
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2000521#Comment_2000521
Several people have tested his reload time with IM, and found it had no affect.
I used it myself, tbh I didn't remove it from my build so it is entirely possible that I'm mistaken :^)
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@Satori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2000261#Comment_2000261
Why iron maiden?
Reloading speed and a good instadown if you get lucky (since his tr is 16 meters he can sneak up and instadown)
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I have an explanation for that actually.
If you really think about it, nurse is the only killer that, if played correctly, is completely uncounterable. But yet, nurse players get praised, why that? Because of two reasons:
#1 She requires a lot of skill to learn and master, you need to play so many awful games as nurse to get the hang of her, and you need to keep doing this over and over again until you become unstoppable. It's like an investment. So, there's a built in respect for nurse mains since they didn't give up and learnt how to play her extremely good.
#2 Because it's so hard to learn nurse, there aren't many nurse mains out there. I myself have given up on learning her because she's so hard. And because it's a rare killer, nobody thinks of her that much.
On the other side, there's a lot of hate about spirit. And the reason behind that is, that just like nurse, she doesn't have a lot of counters. Playing against her is basically predicting or getting lucky. Just like nurse, everything you've learned as a survivor doesn't work against the spirit, looping normally is simply not an option. The spirit doesn't require the same amount of skill as nurse, not even close to her learning curve, but she has the same payoff. And since she's an extremely popular killer, you see a lot of spirits. So the combinations of lack of counterplay, the fact that she's not hard to learn, a bit difficult to master tho, and her being in a lot of games are the reasons she's so hated, imo
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@Superyoshiegg said:
I chalked that up to Cheryl specifically having dealt with supernatural entities in the past, so she would be more "in-tune" with her current predicament. Not something any old Survivor could do.
Exactly that. A common human cannot get help from the entity. But, if a supernatural survivor enters the game, it is possible.
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It's not that bad, but this would reward pallet camping wouldn't it? Or even worse, if you don't wanna be an obsession you'll just waste a pallet. Nemesis makes it even scarier, if you drop the pallet and stun, you're the obsession, your aura is revealed and you're oblivious, if you don't stun, you become slowed down.
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Monitor, as you predicted, is insanely good. Stbfl on the other hand isn't that great. The best build I can think of is corrupt, monitor, bbq and iron maiden/pop depending on your playstyle
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So, they actually answered the same question about perks in one of their streams, so I guess it could fit here as well:
If they make good perks and killers, the community will reply and say that this game is pay to win
But
If they make weak perks and killers, the community will complain and say that the balancing team doesn't play their game because there hasn't been a shift in the meta for a while.
So, basically, it's a lose-lose situation. Pick your poison
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Do you realize how many changes will have to be done for a 5th perk slot? It'd be a disaster!
Totem builds with more than 5 totems (haunted), what would happen there?
Ruin/undying/bbq/tinkerer/corrupt would be the meta
Dance with me/lithe/quick and quiet/iron will/lucky break of distortion would make every survivor hoodini
Forever builds will become meta once again.
I think we should not
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@Chchchcheryl said:
Did you really just suggest Wraith is lesser? Right in front of my salad? I'm appalled
The gall of some people smh
Well, I'm talking about character design based on specific themes not power, so yeah :/
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Thanks, you're very helpful <3
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Horror games have different ways to deliver the horror element to their audience. Since fnaf's main horror elements are jumpscares and creepy stories, it's safe to say it doesn't make sense to add these in dbd, which barely has any jumpscares. Also being chased by a teddy bear isn't entirely amusing.
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@kamisen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986702#Comment_1986702
I see! Well, we agree that our perception on maps can be deceiving at times.
I think Otz is brilliant. Was this his logical reasoning or was it confirmed by the devs that her killrate is due to rng?
Go watch his pig compilation, he explained it and betted, literally, his left nut that he can prove his point
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@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986395#Comment_1986395
Well the issue I think is that undying revealed something is rotten in killerville.
Mainly, 'High risk, high reward perks' actually... don't make sense unless the reward is so overwhelming it basically wins you the game, and that killers aren't innately rewarded enough for winning chases.
I do think undying should be nerfed because it is just too critical and oppressive. But we should also look at WHY it was so in demand and what holes the killer base kit has, and re-evaluate the existence and purpose of hex perks when most are just too inconsistent to bother with despite the theoretically insanely high payoff.
Also, I don't agree that Keys vs Moris is a whataboutism. A whataboutism is when you point to an unrelated issue, but Keys and Moris are pretty linked both in the community mindset and in what they do to the game, in a way that say... DS vs NOED aren't (People like to pretend they are, but NOED is actually trying to do something very complicated and nuanced and fails at it pretty hard while DS was just a blunt tool that was VERY successful).
Specifically, both are alterations to the core objective of the game that cut it short in a way that so radically alters the win condition as to make the game almost unrecognizable. And, weirdly, keys are WORSE because while they don't help YOU win, they basically ensure the killer loses. And culturally taking a key was 'balanced' by the killers busting out moris for them. So saying 'Hey, these two things are pretty equivalently awful for the game, and the main reason to not do this awful thing was just removed, but you didn't remove the awful thing' is a valid argument to make.
The other thing I don't think is 'whataboutism' is trying to address fundemental ways the community can be treated differently. If killers want to say Undying SHOULDN'T be nerfed because of NOED, that is silly. But if killers want to say 'It is absolutely insane that Undying was nerfed basically one chapter after it was introduced while NOED has been broken for 3 years and the devs just do not care and tend to place MUCH less urgency on addressing any major killer QOL stuff" I would say... "Yep, I literally have done studies on the toxic development cycle of DBD, way to spot the problem!" People shoulda noticed this the second they 'tested a bloodlust removal' or removed moris without warning but left keys in so killers would see endless keys: Survivors get communication and rapid response, killers get bones thrown to them after its clear the population will die off if they don't get some appeasement.
That said I DO agree the 'whataboutism' is a huge problem overall, despite those caveats. Its actually pretty immature to say 'someone else got something, where is MY something?' Sometimes, changes occur based on need. You don't need to be 'given' jack ######### in order for a needed change to go through. Undying nerf, machinegun nerf, MoM nerf, whatever. All of those things were bad for the game and its completely legitimate to remove them without offering something in return. As a developer its SMART to try to offer token buffs when things are nerfed, and its really actually kinda silly BHVR will create entirely 'one sided' changelogs so constantly, but it isn't 'unjust' that Undying, a perk that basically could lock survivors out of the game, got nerfed.
That said this is a logical argument to an issue that has become emotional because, again, DBD has a pretty overtly toxic dev cycle, and people struggle to articulate that, so instead they go for the more easy argument about balance, rather than looking at large scale behavior patterns like styles of communication that people notice but don't have good language to address.
First of all, I went through the whole comment but not a single puppy picture or cookie for my effort. Disappointed.
Secondly, I disagree that the devs focus the survivor side first. It was explained why keys will be nerfed later. If you actually go through the patch notes, there is a lot of back and forth between a survivor sided patch and a killer sided patch. Allow me to explain.
The undying nerf was first, now we will have the OoO and ds change. Spirit was nerfed but so did metal of man. For each major survivor sided change, there's always a killer sided change waiting around the corner and vise versa.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986395#Comment_1986395
Undying didn't give more of a reward, it just removed most of the risk. Ruin isn't high reward, but it is necessary for some gen slowdown. I hate it, but it's true. I've played killer enough to know that, unless I've got either PGTW or ruin I'm not gonna pressure gens enough, even PGTW falls short. Some streamers suggested base regression on a kick to stop gen tapping, and just going back and fourth on gens. It means you actually get something for kicking a gen (even if it's just 5%)
Ive recently thinking of a full gen slowdown build.
PGTW, overcharge/dragons grip (preferred), tinkerer/discordance (preferred), corrupt or opression( either of these last 2 will do, corrupt if you cannot secure the early game, oppression if you wanna hold 3 gens and make people hate you).
This is fun, and a must have.
You will not regret this build, nor the toxicity and hatred you will receive doing this.
There are two ways to apply pressure and killers designed for either one, kill pressure (many hooks= all survivors being busy) and slowdown (perks like sloppy designed to slow survivor actions or regress their progress). The nurse belongs in the first category, if she's good she won't need a build dedicated to slowdown. The pig, on the other hand, belongs in the other category since her power and playstyle is designed to slow or sabotage survivor actions. Basically, if you're good you don't need a full slowdown build.
Undying removed the rng completely and ruin is actually pretty significant. The double regression hurts and even if the killer chases you for 30 seconds or so without hitting you, the gen lost a lot of progress.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986368#Comment_1986368
Can help with this, Dead Dawg is among one of the smallest maps I believe, with the biggest maps being Hawkins (Dual floors double the size when laid together) and I think (I'll have to check wiki) The Game as well I could be wrong with game but Peanits a while back confirmed that Hawkins is massive
If you remove all the objects from the maps then yes, you're correct.
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@kamisen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986368#Comment_1986368
Interesting. Not the best of sources but according to the dbd wiki, Dead Dawg Saloon is one of the smallest whereas Haddonfield is one of the largest. Also curious, when you say pig is a weak killer, what do you factor in?
Again, I'm not saying nerfs should be removed, they balance the game. But individual players do not have the big picture and should stop with the absolutism.
Made a mistake about what I meant, I tried to say that certain maps feel a lot larger than they usually are. Also, pig is an m1 killer than has a somewhat mediocre crouch and stun and an rng power. I remember when the data was released that many otz fans were confused that pig had so much killrate and he proved that the reason she does have such killrate is the rng nature of traps.
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Yep, I should've put em in #1 with game balancing my mistake :p
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986357#Comment_1986357
Undying removed rng.
Because it meant that rng didn't affect killers.
Rng for hex totems can make or break a game.
I run ruin sometimes, but mostly PGTW as it's more reliable, but there you go.
If I get hex and it's instantly broken I'm down a perk. If I get a hex and it's not broken until the game is 1/2 way through 2-3 mins, then I'll be happy. That's a good value for ruin.
I think ruins regression should be basekit if you kick a gen, but that's just me.
Correct, but hexes were designed to be high risk high reward perks, with some minor exceptions like retribution and haunted. Devour hope is the best example, it was designed as a gamechanger, based on rng. Undying took the high risk and threw it off a window because you didn't have to worry about, most, of your hexes getting destroyed. New undying simply gives a second chance on the hexes, its more of a, medium risk exceptional reward
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Whataboutism at its finest
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I disagree actually. You started the conversation correctly, but lost me on the last parts. Ormond feels large, but in fact as you stated isn't that big. I think haddonfield and dead dawg saloon are the largest maps, can't confirm tho. The pig needs a buff. She might outperform other killers, but the only reason she does is with her rng bear traps. She's still a weak killer.
And the priority SHOULD be nerfs, and buffs. For example, nerfing ds and OoO is a good thing, the undying nerf is also a good thing. The wglf buff is also a good thing. I believe that the priority should be #1 nerfing the annoying/rng/boring mechanics (keys, freddy, gen/pallet spawns)
#2 buff weak killers and perks (wraith, small game)
#3 release new content (chapters, skins)
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986138#Comment_1986138
It's popular because it's necessary to make sure your pressure actually means something.
Pop needs you to kick the gen after hooking someone, if it was a bar 5% regression on kicks, which increased to 25% when you have hooked someone for 45s
The game was fine before undying was implemented, meaning that it's not necessary in every build. When it got released people just ran it alongside tinkerer and it was extremely hard to counter this combo. You cleanse a hex, right? Now it's 50/50 if it's undying. If it was undying you gotta search for the hex ruin and you were fine. But, if it wasn't you had to search for another totem and cleanse it, which would in turn be another 50/50. Now, undying is basically a second chance for the totem. If you failed to protect it once, now you have one more chance. The brainless mechanic of equipping it and not having to worry about ruin is now gone. So, undying requires a lot more skill to use, and the rng factor isn't that significant. Personally, I believe that every change that removes or minimizes rng is a good change.
So, what they plan to do for ds? They plan to make it a flat anti-tunneling perk. If you progress the game by any means, this usually means that you're not tunneled. This removes the safety factor on the survivor side, and the annoying factor on the killer side. The survivors can't progress through the game and then hop in a locker if the killer wants to stop them, and the killers will be punished for tunneling someone.
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Hmm an interesting values bug. Not the first time I've seen this unfortunately.
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Bad idea in my opinion:
Slugging isn't necessarily a bad thing, and already has counters (unbreakable, wglf, flip flop, soul guard, just to name a few)
If there's an in-game mechanic that counters slugging, killers that rely on slug like oni will be severely weakened. On the other hand, when I get matched with a slugging nurse that uses third seal, knockout, deerstalker and nurse's calling in order to down everyone and let them bleed out, that shouldn't be an exploitable mechanic.
But since this is extremely rare, I'll stand by the killer-side statement that it shouldn't be a game mechanic
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I honestly didn't notice that lol
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First I'll describe my experience:
Survivor mains: played a game as haddonfield with hag and they found a key in a chest, so they decided to not save their teamates and do gens in order for them to escape through hatch (2 died 2 escaped). When I said "wow, the ability to find keys in chests is balanced" they replied with "since we did 3 gens we DESERVE to escape". Ok dude, whatever
Vs a killer main, my team was accused of "being m1 shits", he specifically mentioned that we needed to be chased regardless, and not do our primary objective.
Now, bonus example that I've seen in a stream:
"If you wanna play huntress fairly, then play her on console"
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1985235#Comment_1985235
Sorry if this seems harsh but your Wrong.
Undying was the reliable way to keep ruin up ( the only way to make pressure meaning something). Ds nerf still stops tunneling. Undying only gives it max 2 life's. 2 totems aren't difficult to get rid of, you can't get rid of Ds unless you slug, and still can't get rid of it. Undying was unhealthy if survivors didn't do totems. But it gave survivors a reason to do them. I do 3 totems average a game usually without any totem perks there, in case of noed.
I know keys take longer, but I'm just saying that it's gonna happen. As long as op things remain.
I still disagree, ruin was still meta without undying, the combo just made it popular. Pop was still an extremely good alternative. Many killer mains just think that it's impossible to apply pressure without the undying rng combo, but it was possible before the addition of undying.
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It is unhealthy and needs a nerf, but it isn't a good perk and it is counterable. Good killers won't run noed, and if they do, they won't need to use it. Bad killers will run noed, and if they do it means they can't control the gen speed which means you have time to do bones. It's a second chance killer perk
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I specifically said puppies, but since you're one of my kind I can accept your offering.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
The issue is it's commonly used when you ask for a nerf one side and disregard the other counterpart
Keys are going to be nerfed, but their counterparts Moris were nerfed a while ago.
Ds is going to be changed (readjusted more than nerfed ) whilst undying got a massive nerf. Undying was nerfed within 3 months, Ds is yet to be changed (although it is happening soon, thanks Behaviour)
Whataboutism is an effective tactic in games because you need to realise that all sides have issues. And if you tunnel vision 1 then you won't be able to see the other and will make unbalanced posts.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/231298/dbd-and-whataboutism
So to conclude, whataboutism will be here as long as people don't play both sides and learn both arguments ( I play 50-50 aswell btw)
I agree with your final point, but not on what you said earlier. Ds is a pain to balance and the nerf that it received actually hurts, since people still complain in the forums and will shift the entire meta. Did it take em a while? Yes. But I feel it's harsher than undying, in my opinion. Keys will be nerfed in the future because they said that changing moris is just a few adjustments to some numbers, the key nerf is a complete overhaul. If they wanted to release a patch where both get nerfed/reworked, it'd take em longer and the community outrage would still remain. So imo they didn't do anything wrong, but they did move slow
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So, since camping has no clear definition, you could see a normal patrol as camping. Anywho, camping was always a non bannable strategy that should and will remain. They've mentioned that they want a harsher punishment, but it's still a strategy regardless.
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Will this be available to both killer and survivor?
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Unfortunately, even tho I agree, it doesn't really prove your point since, as you mentioned, the tutorial is outdated.
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1984326#Comment_1984326
But that's not what i speculated.
I was speculating what they think when posting them.
I already knew what you thought from your main post. 😋
Oh mb <3
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
That's the nature of game-related forums.
There is only so much that changes in a game over time. DBD isn't exactly a fast updated game so there isn't much to discuss between updates.
And even the fastest-updated games have the same problem.
Forums for games tend to devolve into
- For Singleplayer games -- a few diehards/regulars posting the same stuff over and over, usually turning into some kind of tech support/subject matter experts recommendin stuff to the newbies who show up every now and then.
- For multiplayer games -- clique wars between various factions trash talking each other to death.
This game forum is no exception.
If you are looking for better quality forum look for a more general forum for games in general, rather than one tied to a specific game. Specific game forums are still useful though because you can find people with a lot of knowledge in these forums and learn stuff you wouldn't learn anywhere else. These days you can get similar info from Influencers and YouTubers, but if you're old school and don't like influencers (like me) forums are still the go to.
I completely agree. I haven't been to many game forums for these reasons, this one is an exception because I can see some smart and interesting posts made here. Leagues, for example, is one of the the last places I want to find myself into alongside reddit and school
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@wasteofpaste said:
I think the tactic is to just annoy the devs until they cave in. Doesn't seem like an effective strategy though.
That's what I see at least
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@Boss said:
Aren't the repeated posts what they would consider as "major criticisms"?
And they're not "fixed" yet, so they'll keep talking about them.
That's just me trying to see the logic behind it.
With all due respect, no. At least in my opinion. I see them more as complains about already known issues rather than criticisms. But that's simply my opinion
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#########? Going on strike over a videogame, really? Also after the announcement of the ds and OoO nerfs I'm confident to say that they do hear killers
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As a hybrid player, that leans kinda to the killer side, I can say that you're short of correct. What you've misunderstood though is the tactic I call hard tunneling, where the killer purposely chooses one survivor and decide to make their game miserable, for whatever reason. In the past week my survivor games are literally killers tunneling people off hooks, which is kinda disappointing that now tunneling is meta. I never liked ds, so I rarely ever ran it, but after these games, I decided to use the meta perk, hope I don't get too attached to it.
Tunneling as a tactic, is fine. But as a way to make someone's life miserable, isn't. Just like purposely camping, where's the fun in that? Or 4 man slugging (meaning that you slug from the start of the game, usually with perks like knockout/deerstalker/third seal just to make survivors have an unfun game), it is counterable, but still remains unfun.
On the other side, survivors being annoying as #########, tbagging and flashlight clicking is also extremely annoying and they do that just to annoy the killer. Ds/unbreakable, keys, 4mans they all are extremely unfun to go against. And that's why I advice against all of them.
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Imo movement control should be the priority, but I agree I kinda miss em
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We never said that we're human
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When I get flamed for whatever reason in the endgame chat
Win in my book
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I actually play survivor more than killer with the new hitboxes because I find them really funny. I personally run dead hard and maybe spine chill to kinda be prepared.