Brokenbones
Brokenbones
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Endgame builds are already viable on some killers in my opinion. As long as you still try during the early/mid game I mean.
Rancor (Decent info after every gen + an (almost) guaranteed free kill on someone when final gen is done), Remember Me + No way out to heavily delay gates. Rancor also gets rid of the obsession to guarantee slower gate speeds
4th perk could be a number of things but NOED is probably the strongest since Blood Warden is inconsistent and survivors actively play like every killer has it, that goes double if they see you have other endgame perks. Terminus might be a good pick for Plague since every survivor will cleanse once the final gen is done and it counters the fountain heal.
Though, a build I like is rancor + remember me & no way out and for a 4th I use 'Hex: Wretched Fate'. Basically if the obsession spends all game hiding and doing gens, they can enjoy the nice 33% slower penalty.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939908#Comment_3939908
What exactly is your argument? I complaining about survivors weaponizing DS, and you said it's "free pressure", as if I should be happy that I'm being bodyblocked.
What emotion should I be feeling? Because I don't think the survivor is giving "free pressure" when they are weaponizing DS. And yes, I'd rather that survivor was repairing generators instead of weaponizing an anti-tunnel perk against me when I'm obviously trying to chase someone else.
I just explained how it's free pressure though. Like yeah it's boring and frustrating when you're not trying to tunnel them but it doesn't change the fact that if you slug them and go for the person they body blocked for, without UB somebody has to get off gens and pick them up aka 'free pressure'. (It's free because the survivor with DS is getting in your face and wants to go down)
Feel however you want about it, that's none of my business.
My argument is that it's a bad idea for survivors to do it because good killers will punish them for it either by just eating the DS and tunnelling them anyway or slugging them. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939885#Comment_3939885
It's the exact same logic, because you're trying to tell killers they should be happy when survivors bodyblock, because it means less survivors are on generators. That logic says the the number of survivors on generators, is the absolute most important thing in the entire multiverse.
Otherwise, your whole argument falls apart. And we would be able to say things like "NO! Killers should not be happy when they get bodyblocked, because it seriously doesn't matter if it means less people are repairing generators".
I never said killers should be happy, that's you putting words in my mouth
I said that survivors who try to force DS are actively throwing and giving the Killer free pressure, which they are if the Killer doesn't fall for it. Not to mention giving away that you have DS is a stupid idea.
The number of survivors on generators IS one of the most important things, how is the survivors doing their primary objective not important
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3939872#Comment_3939872
By that logic, survivors should be happy when killers camp a hook, because it means all the other survivors get to repair generators without being interrupted.
That's not remotely the same logic to be honest. Those are two completely different scenarios but sure I'll bite.
If the Killer's camping, then yeah drawing out the rescue as long as possible while people crank out gens is quite honestly the smartest move for survivors and I'm pretty sure that's what happens in comp dbd. Which is funny because it's also incredibly boring.
Just like being bodyblocked by an endurance gamer is boring.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
DS is still being weaponized against killers that weren't trying to tunnel. Survivors don't want to "waste" DS, so if the killer isn't trying to tunnel them, then the DS user will aggressively bodyblock, or do other things to hinder the killer from chasing anyone else. It's pretty much the problem that all endurance-based anti-tunneling has, where survivors want to weaponize it against killers that aren't trying to tunnel.
Honestly, if BHVR can manage AI to figure out if survivors are trying to Go Next, then they can get AI to figure out if a survivor is purposely trying to hinder the killer from chasing other people, and that should be considered a conspicuous action.
imo Survivor trying to weaponise DS = Survivor being basically useless.
Sure they can try to bodyblock you but if they get slugged and don't have UB, congrats that's free pressure since you're now pressuring 3 survivors at once (The slug, the dude who was being bodyblocked for and the person who has to come pickup the slug).
Though I will give you this, OTR + DS in a bodyblock scenario is actually kind of BS. So you're not completely wrong.
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@MrRetsej said:
Pah! I'm going to run Clean Break, Moment of Glory, Appraisal and a non-exhaustion perk to spite the OP.
Fun Fact; Not. Every. Perk. Needs. To. Be. Meta.I'll gladly take the occasional Red Herring or pebble over another MFT, DH, DS.
Yeah I'm not asking for them to be meta, I'm not sure where you got that idea
I just want them to get some QOL and maybe a small buff to make them 'decent'.
Decent =/= Meta
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3938939#Comment_3938939
Are you more a fan of her first version or her current version?
I think the current version we have is a good mix of what I liked from the first iteration improved upon. Stuff like stacks being locked in after hooks, condemn not just being based on the television you teleport to but anyone near a powered TV after a TP are really good improvements. Also being immune to pallet stuns while demanifested is a nice bonus.
So I think I'm quite happy with the current way it works, though I know a lot of people don't really like sadako's lack of chase power but I'm an m1 killer enjoyer so that doesn't bother me too much.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3938404#Comment_3938404
I have played this game long enough to know anyone who starts complaining about buffs to their main is a survivor who doesn't want to verse that killer. When you play 50/50 killer survivor like me you start to recognize the mains shenanigans
You can main a Killer and still have complex opinions on their state of balance.
Sadako mains (myself being one) hated one of the previous reworks because even though she was stronger, she was just boring to play and frustrating for survivors (The global condemn rework in case you're wondering which one).
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@Trapper_Main said:
Hello, New to forums and had a question about the power discussion.
I can't say I enjoy the Legion character when I'm survivor. Kaneki is a cool addition and one of the reasons I came to dbd.
Between the two powers, which is more oppressive? Or more adaptable to survivor teams?
Thank you for reading.
Legion is weaker because outside of the occassional 5th frenzy hit down, their power's only purpose is getting quick injuries and disincentivising healing and that's about it. It has some other useful applications like vaulting pallets/windows, bodyblocking or denying unhooks but for the most part you'll be getting your hits then cancelling and chasing normally.
Kaneki on the other hand has incredible mobility on top of having one of the easiest free hits in the game. Legion has to actually get close enough to you and hit you which means there's room for whiffs/pallet stuns and the like; Kaneki doesn't have this. Breaking LOS is the only thing you can do and sometimes even that doesn't work due to the generous nature of the hitscan/killer ping.
Before his nerfs, Kaneki could zone you by breaking a pallet then just immediately leaping after you before you can get anywhere. Though, he's still incredibly good at closing the distance and getting the 2nd hit which is what Legion struggles with the most.
In a nutshell, Legion is better at keeping people injured but Kaneki is the better overall killer due to mobility + lethality + versatility of their power. Legion also by design encourages survivors to spread out/split up which is the most optimal way for a team to play.
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There's also the very real possibility people only say gg if they had a fun match. That doesn't mean they say anything horrible/toxic either, just a simple "eh, I didn't enjoy that one. Onto the next one"
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To be fair to Skull Merchant, she wasn't the only killer capable of doing what we called 'gen-locking' or '3 genning'. It's just she was the most effective at it due to a variety of factors, namely her base power and addons that affected generator skillchecks.
Knight was one of the other killers who could do it quite effectively due to guards forcing survivors away from gens and the fact Knight could immediately boot survivors off gens forcefully with the guard's gen kick.
Singularity is also one of the Killers who in the current state of the game could do it quite easily with his power.
The system is basically a way to stop matches from dragging on for an eternity. I recently had a match where the last 3 generators were all quite literally in plain view of one another and the Killer kept repeatedly kicking them. If not for the system this could have continued for so much longer than it did.
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@Nick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936523#Comment_3936523
This argument no longer works. As with the new endgame chat change, earlier chats are saved. So they could say gg and go next?
It's not an "argument" its literally what happens for most people.
Survivor queues are instant so as soon as they die they just click continue and re queue.
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- Drac's castle on Crotus Penn Asylum looks incredible
- The texturing that gets applied to a killer hit with 'Chem Trap'. It's really dynamic and looks amazing on a lot of killers
- When Sadako hooks a survivor, she manipulates the hook itself and impales them with it instead of throwing them onto it
- Sadako's TVs plays static when no survivor is nearby and plays the tape ambience when a survivor is close to it
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I wouldn't worry about it personally.
The worst case scenario was them knee-jerk reaction gutting him within a few weeks of release and that hasn't happened. I'm willing to bet he will see some changes in the near future but I don't see them fully reworking him personally.
Skull Merchant is an extremely rare edge case where, not only was the main power design fundementally flawed, problematic for several reasons and on top of that a lot of the people who decided to main her tended to gravitate towards, let's say 'those' playstyles.
People will continue to complain about Ghoul for a while, but it dies down with time. Be it because people get better at dealing with him or because he gets changes to make him a bit less oppressive.
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@Clown_Syndrome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937142#Comment_3937142
Pinhead was supposed to get a map too.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937133#Comment_3937133
I don't know.
At least we know why the Cenobite map was scrapped
BHVR knew the license would be going back to Clive Barker at some point, and that they'd probably lose the deal they had. No point adding a map they know will have to be removed in the close future.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937156#Comment_3937156
Victor losing the ability to reliably avoid pallet stuns, seems like a massive nerf, because it's so punishing when Victor gets pallet stunned. It means the killer wasted the entire time Victor was running around, and Victor can't be summoned again until the penalty cooldown is over.
He hasn't lost any ability to do anything tho.
It's not like the sounds are completely muted, you will still be able to hear it.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937129#Comment_3937129
…And Victor being able to easy hear survivor footsteps, makes it a lot easier for him to avoid pallet stuns, because Victor can easily hear if the survivor kept running a loop, instead of stopping just out of line of sight, because they are trying for a pallet stun.
Still doesn't make them weaker nor unplayable.
Victor will still be an absolute monster in chase that can snowball to a win pretty quickly.
I could see the argument for it being annoying, that's a very valid opinion but being really hyperbolic about it and saying it makes Twins "unplayable" is really disingenuous imo.
Strong anti slugging builds are what make Twins unplayable, bugs are what make Twins unplayable. Not chase music.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937079#Comment_3937079
When you chase with Victor, you never have to loop? You just always get to the survivor when they're out in the open, and the survivor has zero counterplay?
Oh no, I never said Victor had no counterplay
Just that you can't really 'loop' him. He's too fast even without addons for that. Most survivors either go for pallet stuns, keep using really strong windows/one way pallets or if he's far from charlotte jump in lockers
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936977#Comment_3936977
That's not how it works at all. Survivors can often get to a loop, before being hit by Victor, and one of the main benefits or being able to hear the survivors through line of sight breakers, is you could tell if they were camping a pallet, or if they continued to run the loop. Or in general, Victor could tell you which direction the survivor went, so Victor can try to cut them off by going a different direction.
It's easy to chase with Victor because he doesn't have chase music. And the reason why he worked like this for years, is because even though Victor is strong at chase, the killer is still required to spend extra time switching back to Charlotte, and walking back to the survivor. This change makes Victor weaker in chase, but still makes him inefficient at actually hooking survivors, and still doesn't address the time wasted when survivors hold Victor hostage. It basically means that absolutely everything Twins does, is clunky and unsatisfying.
No it's easy to chase with Victor because he moves super fast and once you're close enough the survivors are forced to try and start dodging otherwise it's guaranteed damage. The sound was nice but it was hardly the main focus point lol
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936900#Comment_3936900
If the chase music hides Victor's noises, then the chase change is going to make everyone unhappy. The zero chase music also helped survivors know where Victor is.
If survivors can't hear Victor's noises over the chase music, then Twins are still playable. But if survivors still get to easily hear Victor, but Victor can't easily hear survivors, then the killer will be a garbage waste of time to play as.
Twins will still be playable and incredibly strong regardless.
The majority of their strength comes from the simple fact that Victor is by definition unloopable under the majority of circumstances and no amount of chase music will change that whatsoever.
I play Twins quite a bit and sound isn't that important considering how fast VIctor moves. By the time you first see a survivor as Victor you're mere seconds away from being in hit range anyway. By the time chase 'starts' you're probably already charging pounce.
You're being incredibly hyperbolic saying Victor having chase music completely ruins the killer and makes them unplayable. You're just wrong
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A lot of the time when survivors lose they don't wait for the match to end they just insta leave
That's if they aren't the last to die anyway.
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Make it map-wide and also make it show your aura while you're on it (So survivors don't confuse it with the various other perks that turn gens yellow)
Some kind of effect for completing a generator with someone would be cool too, maybe it could have an 'after-care' like effect that perma reveals the aura of anyone you've completed a generator with. Just a random idea.
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My opinion: It's mixed.
I feel like since I started playing actively again when his pickrate dropped/the nerfs were added my experience hasn't been as bad as some.
I really enjoy his chase theme and I'm decent at looping/forcing pallet breaks and I know that his power is completely disabled for a bit when he breaks a pallet so I know I can hold w to a new tile and usually get away with it
That said, I do not enjoy the scuffed/incredibly generous first hit mechanic. A free hit is one thing, a free hit that doesn't even look like it should hit + holding you in place is just dumb imo.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936136#Comment_3936136
This is a good tip, sadly it makes completing challenges feel even less rewarding. But so sad that BHVR threw away their unique system for more shiny notifications like every other game.
I set all mine to 'Completed' and it sorta feels identical to the old system. Though I kinda miss the archive system :(
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@redhat74 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3936108#Comment_3936108
Oh for the love of cheddar cheese, where where?
Options > Graphics > Quest notifications
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Pretty sure you can turn them off in the options.
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If old DH were to return I think the community would have a complete and utter meltdown and I'm not saying that to be hyperbolic.
I know I'd be mad personally.
imo the only change no mither could get that'd be nice is letting the survivor using it start healthy, but the perks supposed to be a 'hard mode survivor' thing so, maybe not.
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Dexter
I don't know how they'd make it work because he could fit either role but he'd also be sort of out of place in each role too. Like I think it'd be a huge missed oppertunity for the 'serial killer' character to not be an actual killer in the game. The entity taking on the 'dark passenger' role would be amazing.
But same time, Dexter not being able to actually kill anyone and instead being forced to survive against other killers would be quite fitting for him, and i imagine the entity would feed off of that quite a lot.
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This also happens with Trickster, it's not a bug but you lose stacks if you so much as hit an obsession with a single blade
Really funny to see
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Happy birthday fellow forum dweller! 🎉
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I really hope it's not based purely on how quickly a survivor died
There's a nightmare scenario in which one dude gets mega tunnelled and gets punished by the game for it. I highly doubt this will happen but, this is DBD stuff like this slips through the cracks at times
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The only major complaint I have is that the cameras, while an amazingly faithful adaption visually and how they control - are completely pointless from a gameplay perspective
They are supposed to be a side objective but Springtrap doesn't really give you much reason nor incentive to use them. Sure tagging him to reveal him is a fun utility but there's no 'threat' involved with the cameras to make you use them which is contrary to their use in the games.
I wouldn't want them to make it a slog that forces survivor engagement, but I don't like how they can just be ignored completely either.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3933026#Comment_3933026
That makes sense, I just don't understand why it says while they're healthy or injured
- The final Survivor is in one of the following states (Healthy, Injured or Dying)
Just classic BHVR wording I think, trying to cover all bases even when it doesn't quite make sense.
A better way to word it would be: "When the 2nd to last survivor has reached struggle state, the final survivor may be mori'd when downed".
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@Nazzzak said:
This may have already been addressed but the mori change sounds confusing.
Does it mean that if you have a strong looper that the killer can just ignore them all game, wipe out the other 3 average players, and then mori the strong player when they're healthy?
People are confused by the wording
All this change is for is so the killer doesn't have to wait for the 2nd to last survivor to finish dying to mori the last survivor once they are downed. Nowhere does this say it auto-moris the last survivor
It's the same as it is now, the only difference is if you down the final survivor while the 2nd to last survivor is in struggle state, you can mori them immediately instead of having to wait for them to die.
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@TieBreaker said:
I don't understand the anti-hiding changes. How does the survivor losing collision help the killer find a survivor that's hiding, whilst they're not contributing to the match? I've read it three times, and I still don't get it.
it's to stop the killer/another survivor from bodyblocking someone in a corner permanently
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932915#Comment_3932915
59% is a slight chance? It's more than a 50/50 chance.
Your scenario is a hypothetical in which all 4 survivors in a swf burn a different realm offering
It's an edge case, not something that will happen consistently imo but even if it does wards are still a thing to render all 4 completely useless.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932898#Comment_3932898
I think that means that if each survivor brings a separate map offering, they have a 1 - (0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8 * 0.8) = 59% chance that one of their map offerings is picked.
That would still mean the survivor side can still have a map offering they want, over 50% of the time.
It's still only a slight chance though.
Plus wards are still in the game if you're worried about it, Killers still have a means to cancel all of them in that hypothetical scenario.
People will probably use them less since they aren't guaranteed anymore though.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932821#Comment_3932821
I'm fine with them trying to switch it to a mobility tool but this is a bad way to do it in my opinion. The worst part is that it doesn't just nerf your ability to use it in chase though. It heavily nerfs the ability to get hits after using the Spell, period. So if you ARE using it for map control and you use it right to Fly towards a group of survivors on a generator, you will have to just stare at them for a couple of seconds despite using your ability correctly. That is just one example.
I understand that and I agree it doesn't feel great to be locked in place not able to do anything tbh
Maybe with enough feedback it'll be changed post-PTB
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I'm guessing they want Fly to be used more for either map traversal or catching up to a survivor who has a lot of distance on you, rather than trying to use it quickly mid chase to pass through a pallet/window
I'm learning Vecna right now and I prefer not to use fly mid-chase myself since I don't like how it controls/I prefer to play tiles normally or use the other chase spells instead so this change doesn't bother me personally.
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Hah, surprised you didn't mention one of my personal favourites - baiting a survivor to blind you at a pallet as legion then frenzy vaulting it and immediately being able to m1 them due to the mechanic of frenzy immediately ending with no fatigue once blinded.
It's rare, but must make the survivor feel really dumb for falling for it.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3932234#Comment_3932234
That's a lie. Survivor gets at least a few buffs/changes every patch. Killers too, but they mostly get net nerfs or break even. Ghoul has been omega nerfed like 3 times, and he just came out. That new survivor's perks are all useful, except maybe the locker one (but still an Object-adjacent ability).
You'll get a fresher survivor experience soon enough with MORE anti-tunnel ,-slug, and -camp than is already present. And if it's still not good enough, just press Abandon so that you can never lose, and hope to find a more fun match quick. Or join a SWF, because they've never even been nerfed, and I don't see them getting touched in the foreseeable future.
I don't think that's their point though
Killers get their powers buffed/changed/reworked and so on which helps keep them fresh but the survivor role is pretty static.
Perks help and it's nice that they get a good amount of perk buffs but the actual gameplay of survivor is consistently the same. We are supposed to get a new item/a rework to maps and keys soon so maybe that'll help a bit but I def feel like with 2v8, ghoul and springtrap; Killer has the more interesting stuff going on at the moment
Side note - I still can't believe people are still comparing rapid response to object. The perk sucks, nobody uses it.
I've seen some surv youtubers making videos on it and even that hasn't got people using it.
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This might be a little bit of a controversial idea but - I think mirror + newspaper should be at least partially basekit. Having to run two brown addons to have a semblence of a chase power feels bad.
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@DeadTeDy013 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931164#Comment_3931164
I know plenty of consistent 4k before gens are done that get their wins without tunneling. Whether they're being serious or not going into the game. One of them I regularly play with. Tunneling has been a strat (in my experience- 2k hrs and have been playing since before they lost the license for Stranger things) that newer players, or players that are just done with the game and don't want to admit it and therefore become bitter and toxic use. Tunneling is not healthy game play for either side. As a skilled survivor and a newer Killer, I'm able to get 4ks fairly regularly without tunnelling. It's all about knowing the killer you're playing, knowing the map, and understanding the different ways survivors play. And learning all of that takes time and patience. If you're tunnelling, or condoning Tunneling to any degree (the survivors running into a dead zone and being the easier target I kind of understand), you haven't truly learned the game or it's mechanics, and you don't show you have the patience to do so.
My opinion based on my experience and exposure to the community.
To say that just because somebody understand why tunnelling exists and that sometimes it is genuinely the best course of action to win a tough match, they don't 'understand the game mechanics' is a really unfair way of describing it. Tunnelling the first guy you catch from 1st to 3rd hook is unhealthy and I wouldn't wish that on anyone but to blanket say all tunnelling is bad/unhealthy and so on is just not accurate at all.
And about the anecdotal stuff you mentioned, I think a lot of people go into Killer wanting to play 'fair'. Not tunnelling, not slugging and so on but as they become more familiar with the role and realise that sometimes to win you have to do these things sometimes, and yet they still catch flak for it. I think the community would be a lot healthier to stop with the tabooism associated with in-game actions that is completely allowed by the rules of the game.
You mentioned you're a 'newer killer' since I'm guessing you've mostly mained survivor, I think you'll see in the future sometimes you lose a game because you played too nice with the survivors and they took advantage of that. I play both 50/50 and genuinely I lose games not due to prolonged chases, or bad map RNG - sometimes I just lose because I 4 hooked 4 different survivors and played too nice.
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Probably not but if you want to make it more interesting to help you overcome the worry - you could always do a bit of analysis on your mistakes and make that part of the video.
I always notice mistakes I make in my matches when I'm able to watch them back.
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@Malkhrim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930701#Comment_3930701
I've played the Ghoul a lot and I don't think the hits look right from his POV either. You can injure survivors through certain obects, through windows even after they have started backing away from it, and even when they have already started to fall from a great height. You can get them with the tentacle by aiming on spaces outside their models. So yeah, I do think his free hits are a problem.
I haven't played him myself yet but yeah not surprising
I hope it's just a bug and not intended behaviour because it's very unfair sometimes. Say what you want about Legion's free hit, at least he has to actually get to you and hit you.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931170#Comment_3931170
It sucks sometimes but it's the nature of the game right?
Perhaps that will change, my friend! If the anti-tunnel features are as effective as they should be.
That could be! I'm not optimistic or pessimistic about it but I think the surrender and anti-facecamp systems (While flawed) have helped reduce frustrations immensely just because they exist. I've got an open mind to it, personally.
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931170#Comment_3931170
Well, nobody's actually being pushed away from these strategies, I'm just one person.
My personal recommendation is not to tunnel if you want longterm results, I'd make the same posts about survivor tactics if I were more immersed in that role.
No yeah, I meant in a general sense yk. The community at large treats some of these things as taboo things only certain types of player do and it always makes me a bit sad when I see newer players being basically taught "yeah if the killer ever goes after you after unhook they are xyz and its this and that". The mentality rubs off on them
Wasn't meant to be a critique of you, I enjoy the discussions!
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931164#Comment_3931164
I'm not sure I understand why that's disagreeing with me?
Yes, it's currently objectively the easiest way to win a match. My point about it stunting growth for the fundamentals is that you'll rise to a point where survivors start being able to put up a legitimate defence, and while it's still going to be a very strong strategy, it becomes much less comfortable and a lot more stressful. You'll be boxed in, and you'll need to rely on tunnelling where before you would've had the room to mess up more.
As for the last point, I somewhat doubt that, but it's a little outside the scope of this post. The only thing to point out is the obvious reminder that three gens being done in your first chase is actively on the roadmap as something getting addressed.
I think I just worded myself badly. I don't disagree with your logic at all on the 'long term' side of things, I suppose I just don't agree that it's something we should try to push people away from either meaning I don't think it's necessarily against a killer player's best interests if that makes sense.
That's not meant to be a "let people play how they want" type response though since I genuinely think it's something people should learn and shouldn't be stigmatised in the way it is because it creates a lot of unnecessary hostility in the community imo. If a Killer tunnels me, I take it as they just really want to win and that's that.
It sucks sometimes but it's the nature of the game right?
It's not like survivors are pushed away from tactics/playstyles/perks that give them short term wins at the cost of long term improvement. Not meant to be a 'us vs them' complaint, I genuinely think it's a good comparison. Instead of learning map tiles or surveying their surroundings, nah just slap on Windows. Why not? It's objectively easier and I wouldn't fault survivors for doing it.
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I'm sorry but I strongly and heavily disagree. The killers who play to win from minute one, no holds barred will tunnel relentlessly and if the survivors aren't ready for it/good enough to finish a game in a 3v1 scenario - they lose. Straight up.
I understand your argument that doing this means you don't learn macro play, or splitting pressure; and so on. I agree, if a new player learning Killer just tunnels nonstop and doesn't learn these things it will hinder them but that's not the issue with tunnelling. The issue with tunnelling is once you know these things, it becomes objectively the easiest way to win a match.
Secure a hook, proxy them to 2nd stage if you can then tunnel them out immediately after. Slowdown perks will buy you enough time to do this usually. Most solo Q teams will fold to this strat because they either don't have enough gens done by this point or throw trying to protect the person being tunnelled.
As for the 2nd point about it being unbalanced/getting changes - I'd say be very careful what you wish for because there's two sides to these issues and more often than not a lot of Killer's end up tunnelling because the survivors did 3 gens super quickly and the Killer needs to push the match back toward their favour by making it a 3v1. If Killers can no longer do this at all, killrates will probably plummet for a lot of the cast. Imo at least.
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To sort of weigh in with my own opinions here, I think it is fine to have some grievances with Ghoul's power to some degree. Personally I take issue with how generous the first hit is. Not that it's a free hit but that sometimes the 'way' it hits you just seems ridiculously unfair from the survivors POV. One time I was crouched behind a generator and somehow they still got me with it.
However, what I also want to say is sometimes these downs happen because of misplays earlier in the match that might be completely out of your control. In the saloon clip, yeah he downed you before you could make it anywhere but a lot of killers would get a down there too because the area was a deadzone with both shack and the other close pallet being gone.
This isn't meant to be a dismissive 'lol skill issue' reply since I think it's fair to critique Ghoul's power, but sometimes just because of how a match played out downs like this happen and I wouldn't chalk it completely up to the Killer's power.
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It still works with Blast Mine, so - this is probably a bug?