Brokenbones
Brokenbones
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- Brokenbones
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I think this is just a bug with this map, I've also had this bug happen to me too many times as Survivor.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963534#Comment_3963534
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963729#Comment_3963729
I mean fair enough, I'm not saying you're wrong in your assessment of the ability... but what I have been continuously saying is you cannot tell people what they can and can't find fun. Fun is subjective, and all I stated at the start was that while I do acknowledge it can be unfun to players unaware of the threat, it can also be quite terrifying, exciting and fun as well.
I've tried to avoid using anecdotal evidence, but I for one have found many games against Tombstone Myers highly engaging, and have some genuinely terrifying moments and genuinely hilarious moments as a result of playing against tombstone… one such example involved a Myers steaming around the corner of Shack while in EW3 witj Undetectable, and me literally panicking as I barely made it to shack pallet to save my life, which I only managed cause I literally saw a shadow go past a tiny gap in one wood by shack.dopr.
I've also had games where Inwas genuinely impressed by a Tombstone, because I played against a Myers who stalked extremely well, fast enough for me to not be sure if he had it or not, and him not Tombstoning anyone... after so many hooks I dropped by guard and went for a body block to save a Death Hook teammate... only to eat a Mori instead...
It's perfectly fine for you to not like Tombstone... but you don't get to tell people what they find fun. I an admit sometimes Tombstone Myers is sometimes very frustrating and boring... but there are other times I've had fun, exciting and memorable momentsagainst him that I wouldn't have had if Tombstone didn't exist.
As I say fun is subjective.
Oh my intention isn't to speak on behalf of everyone, you're always within your right to find it enjoyable
My point is, probably a high amount of people don't find dying to a single addon to be fun or engaging. I don't dislike Myers as a whole I just dislike having to play around an addon I find to be completely broken and I know many many others do as well. Even when you counter it and 'win' I struggle to find that engaging because the Killer wasn't actually chasing people or playing the game, rather they were just trying to mori someone and couldn't.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963252#Comment_3963252
You don't let the killer win the chase for free though... you don't just hop in a locker and let him grab you. You use the locker when you know you're caught, and won't make it to another loop/tile... Mikey is an instant down killer, so if you're caught, you're caught, you only locker hop to ensure he can't Mori you.
I would argue that in DBD, no matter the killer, we all know at some point you as survivor are going to get caught, and the chase ends, this is a fundamental truth of DBD. You simply can't loop the killer forever, because the game would fundamentally break if you could. Thus, your hook stages are resources to be used as the survivor team, such as if three players are on death hook and there is one with no hooks, the one cannot stay hiding and only working on safe generators... that player has to work on valuable objectives and draw killer attention any way they can.
In Myers case, rhe locker hop is that last step to use when you've run out of all other options. By successfully looping the killer as long as possible before you hop in the locker, you have wasted all of Mikey's time stalking, all of his time on his EW3 trying to mori you, and if you did enough, you've also made him have to start a new round of stalking, wasting more time.
I'm not gonna claim it's perfect design or anything, but teams of decent survivors don't just roll over and die against Tombstone, there are things you can do against him, and Myers has to win m1 gameplay without a lunge to actually Mori you.
He is a pretty popular killer...there are a lot of survivors who do enjoy playing against him... I'd at least argue there are more players who enjoy facing Myers than there are quite a number of killers.... even when you consider Tombstone... so take from that what you will.
2 words
Haste perks.
If Myers has pwyf you literally cannot loop him normally and have to let him win chases for free. PWYF is balanced by it decreasing when you swing and tombstone/locker grabs ignore this.
Again my point never was that good survivors can't beat Tombstone, my point is it's a completely busted addon that makes playing against Myers a chore because any time I face one there's always a good chance it's Tombstone piece since why wouldn't you run it when it can single handedly win you games.
I highly doubt any survivor will say they enjoy being taken out of the game early by a single purple addon
@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962877#Comment_3962877
Yeah tombstine bring some horror back to dbd. Just recently my swf versed mickey who we suspected having tombstone piece as he took so long to get Tier 3 and we played it safe going to lockers etc. But after game he didn't even had it was just newer player.
This just reinforces my pov, you and your team had to play worse on purpose just in case the Killer had these addons and they didn't lol.
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@AlreadyTracer said:
No one is whiffing or getting stunned out of a frenzy hit, bffr
Is it easy to hit Kaneki's power? Yes. It's MEANT to be. That doesn't make him overpowered, it makes him easy.
Again the point is it CAN happen and you're conveniently ignoring the main point that Legion has to run up to you and get in M1 range for their free hit
Not like Kaneki catapulting himself and then immediately latching onto you with their stupid easy hitscan.
Also I'm not saying he's OP, just incredibly frustrating and too much reward for little effort.
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@AlreadyTracer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963326#Comment_3963326
Legion gets just as free of a hit, and unlike Kaneki, he can *chain* them. If you're not ok playing injured, you were never good at survivor to begin with
Yeah, that's incorrect - Legion's hit while yes 'free' they still have to actually run up to you in M1 range and land the hit. They can whiff, they can be stunned. It is not 100% always guaranteed. If they whiff, they get punished
With Ghoul the game does half of the work for you, to the point I've been hit by Kaneki's through literal map geometry because "lol hitscan". And even IF Ghoul somehow manages to miss you, they can just move slightly or use another token if enraged and still get you anyway.
So no, It's not the same.
As for the playing injured part, that's irrelevent. I have no qualms playing injured so idk where you got that from. I've basically devoted half of my build to perks that only work when I'm injured just because Ghoul is so infuriating to play against.
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963326#Comment_3963326
His hitscan is bugged now something you should hit doesnt conect and then you hit someone with 80% of their character behind wall.
Kidnap tech you mean the slow then he leaps on you enraged and vaults but you are stuck its bugg that was fixed but appears again because something went wrong with spaghetti code.
His mobility is now same as blight nurse can travel max 32 meters I think but she is just slower, she is better for getting hits ignoring whole looping idead creating her own game.
Yeah they bugged him in the latest patch, his sounds don't always work properly from survivor POV as well.
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@AlreadyTracer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3962996#Comment_3962996
11k hours says otherwise. Hes a hit and run killer with mobility and a slightly better chase than M1 killers.
Really not gonna acknowledge the incredibly generous hitscan attack that holds survivors in place?
Not gonna acknowledge how this hitscan attack can immediately be used on people off hooks to disable most of their anti-tunnel perks while also buffing Ghoul's power by giving him his enrage tokens?
Or the fact that cancelling power mid leap let's Ghoul almost immediately M1 after closing in.
Or the whole vaulting over pallets which also applies 50% hindered for some reason, or the overtuned built in bamboozle addon
Or the fact his mobility is on par with Nurse/Blight's and isn't balanced the same way as the other dash/teleport Killers are
"Slightly better chase than m1 killers" Yeah right. Understatement of the century there.
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@Defnotmeghead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960360#Comment_3960360
Purple bottles are unsatisfying right now tho, they literally give free hits, especially with flask of bleach.
At least every hit thanks to yellow bottles is an instant dopamine satisfaction.I don't see how spamming yellow bottles at the floor will be more satisfying or skillful than what you can do right now with a combination of both. Flask of bleach aside, normal purples were fine as is.
Clown's not a haste centric killer, he's a slowdown killer- that's his identity. Making him a haste centric killer just feels wrong imo.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3963155#Comment_3963155
Fun is subjective first and foremost.
My case for why Tombstone can be quite fun and engaging is:
- To start charging Tombstone Mikey has to get out of t1, which gives an audio cue to the whole team, so its not like Survivors aren't made aware Myers is in play.
- The mere existence of Tombstone means you need to pay careful attention and fear Myers stalking you, whether he actually has it or not. This makes Myers inherently intimidating, even if he isn't a particularly strong killer, which is great for the horror theme.
- A Myers using Tombstone has a long charge time, and if EW3 hasn't popped for a long time, that is quite scary once you start to suspect it, cause you don't know when it will pop.
- You have counterplay in the form of lockers and ofc the fact Myers is still an m1 killer at the end of the day, who must stand next to you actually mori you, so while very dangerous, standard gameplay mechanics counter him.
If your teammate feed Myers it can be unfun, but Myers is the best thematically realised killer in the game, and he is actually quite popular for both sides, and has been for years, despite not being very strong.
"Counterplay in the form of lockers"
You mean "Let the killer win the chase for free or risk dying instead."
That's not good game design nor balanced in the slightest. Especially when you consider what perks Myers is likely running - Tombstone piece can be ran with 4 slowdowns easily which means even if you do the """counterplay""" congrats you just fed him a free pain res dms grim embrace eruption or whatever
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There's nothing fair about being taken out of a match by a single purple addon.
Especially when the """counterplay""" to this addon is letting Myers win the chase for free, JUST IN CASE he has it.
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Overcome + Made for this
Most ghouls I face with this combo give up chasing me because they realise they can't win the chase in 2 seconds.
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Who told you that you were playing Clown wrong?
If that's how you enjoy playing him then it's really nobody's place to tell you you're wrong.
Sure objectively other playstyles might be better or more effective and so on but that doesn't mean doing your own thing is 'wrong' necessarily
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Stake out.
I'm serious.
The fact it adds an extra 1% to all great skillchecks when you're at one stack means that every great skillcheck on a gen shaves off 2 seconds. Pair this with deja-vu making gens only take 84 seconds by default makes gens fly by.
Get one stack then focus on hitting as many greats as possible with deja vu and you'll see what I mean.
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While I personally don't believe we're in a full on healing meta like the COH days, if every survivor brought resurgence, botany and medkits…
Let's just say you will really begin to notice it and it'll feel like you have to commit to every chase otherwise they heal off any damage you do as soon as you leave them.
That said, not every survivor plays the meta.
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It basically boils down to a few things
Medkits, while nowhere near as busted are still objectively the best survivor item and allow survivors to undo killer pressure quite significantly. Pair this with Botany Knowledge now no longer further debuffing medkits, now survivors with a medkit and botany can heal just as fast as someone else healing them and even slightly faster with other perks
Then there's also a new meta staple in Resurgence, which gives 70% heal progress after an unhook meaning once again, Killer pressure can be quickly undone without the need for perks like We'll make it and so on.
Tl;dr - Medkits with botany are really good again, Resurgence is a meta staple since its buff and other healing perks are really strong when put together
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3961745#Comment_3961745
Yeah. He triggers super bad headaches for me so I seriously consider walking away whenever it's him. Luckily for me, he isn't common.
But yeah he's an accessibility nightmare
Yeah that's pretty fair
I could see how nightfall would be way too much for some people given the constant sounds and all the visual stuff.
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@Pulsar said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WNFGBQYQCE2W/tier-list-png.png
I will explain if necessary.
Reading your 'Absolute hatred' tier and I was nodding along until I saw Dredge
What's your beef with Dredge? I'm guessing Accessibility related stuff? He's not exactly as oppressive or strong as the others in that tier
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What's wrong with Survivors having some agency/options against part of a Killer's power? The margin for error has been reduced with the speed buffs as well I think?
Not every form of counterplay should come down to guessing or predropping surely.
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@smurf said:
I also didn't know this. I kinda of want to know how that impacts enacting Ambush from the crouch animation. Are we getting the effect used in @Brokenbones' example?
I want to make sure we need to hold down a button to finish executing Ambush since it's necessary to mindgame the dash at pallets to try to force survivors away from certain loops. If we can prematurely lock ourselves into a dash, that would be a proverbial Pig nerf 🐽🏐
You'll still need to hold a button (Which you can of course let go of at any time)
it's just you can hold it during the crouch animation in order to start filling the bar as fast as possible
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959167#Comment_3959167
So basically, “game sense” is just a fake term that’s only used for killers?
Why can’t a survivor just use their “game sense” to know if a solo q teammate is working on a generator?
Because you’re totally expecting a killer to use “game sense” to find a survivor, when they aren’t allowed to see them, or hear them, or see their scratchmarks, or have aura reading…. and all this while a teammate is ambushing them with a fog vial and trying to confuse the killer with distracting scratchmarks or noises.
It’s so bad. It’s so very very bad, of the unrealistic expectations that killers are expected to do with “game sense”, but it’s fine if survivors just keep asking for more and more info buffs, so they don’t need as much game sense.
It's not a fake term and It does exist though, you haven't proven it doesn't.
It seems like you're just deflecting to make it about survivors in lieu of a proper argument.
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@AssortedSorting said:
If a survivor goes down too quickly: The other survivors have more map resources to utilize. (The downed survivor wasn't able to use too many pallets)
If a survivor stays alive for too long: The other survivors have fewer map resources to utilize. (The downed survivor used a lot of pallets the Killer "hopefully" broke)
It's macro-scale gameplay. (That being said, there are cases where it's too quick, and too long)
I know a few people seem to disagree with this take but you're mostly correct?
The one part I disagree with is a survivor going down quickly IS objectively bad for the survivor team because the Killer now has an insanely easy target that could win them the game if they decide to hard tunnel.
But the parts i do agree with:
If you chase a survivor and the first thing they do is immediately waste all the pallets without even trying to loop you on them - next thing you know you've got survivors going down insanely quickly because of the huge deadzone. I've had many games where someone uses shack at 5 gens when they honestly didn't need to and it cost us later in the match.
Survivors who can use minimal resources and waste a lot of time are the ones who lose you games as Killer.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959060#Comment_3959060
When solo q survivors ask for more information on what their teammates are doing, why aren’t you telling them they should just use their game sense?
When BHVR added a Survivor HUD, why didn’t you tell everyone it was unnecessary, because solo q survivors could use their game sense to know what their teammates were doing?
And why aren’t you asking for Windows of Opportunity to be nerfed, because survivors should be using their game sense to find windows and pallets?
Why it is that whenever people say to use game sense, it’s always saying the killer should be having it?
Peak whataboutism. But sure I'll bite because why not.
- Good survivors do need game sense I never said they didn't. You know when people say "oh average survivors aren't that good" yeah if they had game sense, they wouldn't say that at all.
- Simple. Survivors are a team of 4 and I'd say in current DBD they need to work as a team to actually win matches consistantly. The reason why 4 man SWFs are so oppressive is because they can work as a team to the maximum possible level. The HUD at least allows solo Q and duos some semblence of teamwork.
- What kind of question is this??? I hate windows and think it's become relied on too much. Doesn't change the fact that Killer game sense exists and is a thing.
None of what you've said proves game sense doesn't exist. That's the point that YOU made. Either back it up with evidence or stop acting like it's true yeah?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3958674#Comment_3958674
”Game sense” is a fake term. There’s no visual, scratchmarks, audio, or aura reading. What exactly am I suppose to base the game sense off of? Psychic powers?
How am I supposed to follow one specific person, when multiple people are purposely running through the same area, trying to confuse the killer into chasing the wrong person?
No it's not.
Game sense is a fundemental part of DBD as a whole, how can you just say it's not a thing. That's ridiculous.
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@Shinkiro said:
Most clowns literally just do nothing but skilllessly throw purple after purple spamming hinder making the chase boring as heck because there isnt really one. I'd rather go against 100 ghouls in a row than the boring garbage gameplay that is clown bottle spammer as a baseline.
Gut the purple or its hinder value and emphasise the yellows more.
You realise you're just exchanging one annoyance for another
"Clown just speeds himself up with his bottles, with no counterplay"
As least as survivor, being hindered is something you can avoid or counter with good pallet use. You won't be able to stop Clown getting haste.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3959034#Comment_3959034
I mean, this is up to you if you want to play a Killer worse than he is… Go for it. I also dont use Blinks for Nurse.
On the one hand, I 100% agree with you that not fully utilizing a Killer's kit is generally a bad idea.
BUT
Clown was and always has been a slowdown killer primarily and that's how a lot of people have played him and like to play him. People feeling like they are getting punished for their playstyle/to force them to use the yellow bottles is a pretty understandable frustration to have.
Making Clown a haste centric killer first instead seems like a bad move.
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Basically the game will check if you are already inputting an action and then immediately execute that action
So, here's an easy to understand example:
Let's say you crouch as pig and want to quickly/immediately start an ambush. In the current version, you need to crouch and THEN hold m1 to start charging. If you hold m1 while the crouch is in progress nothing will happen
But with input buffering, as soon as Pig is finished crouching and you are holding M1, it will immediately begin the ambush charge. Saving you from having to press the button again.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3957537#Comment_3957537
So better question… has any suggestion or feedback from the suggestion and feedback part of the forum actually been used? Any examples?
imo it's pretty fair to say the suggestions/feedback section is used quite often, we're just not explicitly told the 'how and when' unless it's something really major.
I can even give a real example that I was there for, a long while ago during the PTB where hemorrhage was reworked to cause healing progress regression, I noticed it also affected survivors in the dying state which I thought was a big problem
I made a thread about it, got a response from someone (Might've even been Mandy, I can't remember) and sure enough it was changed to not affect dying state survivors when the PTB went live.
Now I'm not taking credit for the change, but I think the thread I made was used to gather feedback along with other places like steam forums or the reddit etc.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956825#Comment_3956825
Both add-ons have the same counter. If you're playing Myers and he's not hooking them you jump in a locker, or work on a gen constantly.
At best, either add-on should only get, at most, one kill, and then it's confirmed 100%, to brand new players that it's in play. And both add-ons slow down EW progress.
Again, this only matters if the instant kill is both popular and giving the killer more kills than not running it. It's obviously popular because of the effect, but it's clearly not getting more kills overall than running a regular build. That's the logic here.
That's why I brought up pig and Onryo, because insta kill isn't necessarily going to be giga powerful just by itself. And you ignored that because you misunderstood that my argument applies to both add-ons here.
One early kill is all it takes for Killer's to secure a solid victory and that's what tombstone piece basically does. Unless I see data from BHVR specifically about this, I refuse to believe Myer's killrate with this addon is lower than those without. In """high""" mmr at least.
Comparing Tombstone to Pig and Onryo is very disingenous too because it might imply their insta-kills are just as low effort as Tombstone, which they aren't.
Onryo has to spend the whole game building up stacks, securing hooks to lock them in and then actually downing the survivor again for the mori
And Pig's RBTs are self explanatory; she needs a down, it takes a long time and so on.
(Not to mention the massive difference - they both have counterplay for the survivors). Actual counterplay based on how their powers are designed. Not "oh guess i'm just gonna jump in a locker because if i don't i might end up dying instantly"
Then you have Myers. Stalk survivors with a stalk rate addon, walk close enough to one then press m1. If there's no lockers nearby or you get caught off guard for whatever reason - congratulations you just got taken out of the game by a single purple addon.
At least with Judith's tombstone, his movement speed is decreased (meaning haste perks are needed, removing gen slowdown perks) and the amount of stalk required is insane.
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I had a game today where I had teammates DC very early because it was Ghoul
Then we proceeded to win the match anyway.
It's honestly hilarious how better and more reliable bots are than randoms who give up immediately are. DCing went from insta losing as survivor to making some matches more winnable and isn't that a crazy thought.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956696#Comment_3956696
Because you're confusing two very different things:
Just because an add-on or power kills survivors doesn't automatically mean it does better than not using it, or using something else.
Tombstone might be frustrating to die to, but it takes a long time to earn, is generally telegraphed (not committing to chase, tiering up takes longer, etc), and people are usually going to play around tombstone even if you aren't running it.
So you are just as likely to have gens done by the time you get that far. If nothing else, ask anyone who's tried to 4k for the achievement if that's easy to earn.
Just because a killers power outright kills survivors doesn't mean that's the best method for killing survivors. Both pig and Onryo have that ability built into their power without an add-on at all, but I don't think anyone is calling them S-tier because of it.
There is no confusion.
You're mostly talking about Judith's Tombstone in your post. I am talking about Tombstone Piece. Also yeah, funny you mention survivors having to play around it - you know how they do that? By giving Myers a hook for free.
Any myers who is mega tryharding will use it 100%, there is no reason not to. Being able to bypass all hook states and make the game a 3v1 as early as possible makes the addon completely busted even with the small nerf it got.
Judith's tombstone, while not great to be hit by - has actual downsides that the Killer has to work around. Tombstone piece does not.
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What bothers me about the rationale about nerfing addons as described by Mandy is it doesn't seem to always be applied.
In what world is Myers killrate with Tombstone Piece not way higher than without it and how has it been left in the state it's in? I know this seems like a petty complaint but it really bothers me how (imo) quality of life addons like streamers get nerfed but game breakingly frustrating addons that can take players out of the game without a single hook get left unchanged.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
one of my best tips is to keep a pen n paper handy to record all TTV names and then watch your gameplay when you eat dinner. seeing your own gameplay does a lot to help you examine your own play objectively
Personally the way I remember is screenshotting the pre-game lobby or the post-game scoreboard
Makes finding their channels much easier later!
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@UndeddJester said:
Botany is the king of self heal builds now. Numerous amazingly good combos. My best thus far is: -
- Botany
- Resurgence
- Medkit with the 2 8 charge add ons.
Gives you 1 complete full heal in about 15.4s, and 2 heals off hook within 4.62s all for just common and uncommon add-ons. In some ways this better than the old syringe and 8 charge add-on bulld with BK and Resurgence, because you can heal yourself to full any one time you get injured, rather than having to burn the syringe and lose later heals.
I still maintain this is now the king of healing perks, and that is fundamentally flawed design, since Botany gives you access to great self healing and pretty much as good altruistic healing as any other perk all on 1 perk slot.
It makes so many other altrusitic helaing perks redundant, and also any self healing perks like Self Care, Strength in Shadows and Plot Twist basically meme perks, because they all pale in comparison for value.
Though I will admit I still have fun building around it, cause I can just not take a medkit if I don't want to play meta cheese.
Self heal + syringe builds got a new tool in the FNAF update as well.
Trevor's perk exhultation got a massive buff; being able to upgrade your medkit and get 75% of its charges back after a stun is crazy good since the addons stay the same. Pallet stuns can be RNG at times though but I quite like it on medkit oriented builds
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955047#Comment_3955047
I would go that far. I see two Botany's a match these days. That reduces a Mangled heal from 20 seconds to just under 13 seconds. You're only gaining 2.5 seconds per heal using something like Sloppy Butcher from just Botany alone. Broken is a really rare status ailment, and Coulrophobia is really only viable on a handful of killers with extra large TR's. Most survivors aren't healing within TR unless they absolutely have to.
I agree about coulrophobia being lackluster.
Quite sad that It's main use case these days is purely for slugging. I run it on Twins for example to try and counter any potential WGLF/heal gamers since Twins are absolutely decimated by heal builds.
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@xGodSendDeath said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955052#Comment_3955052
So proxy camp the hook so they can't heal? Don't even need two anti healing perks for that. I can just use No Way Out/Deadlock to help with camping/tunneling instead
Yes but with normal resurgence and potential healing perks from the unhooker, you'll still be eating 2 heal states. Maybe more if you factor in anti-tunnel perks
Plus my post is specific counters for resurgence itself. Camp with no way out and deadlock if you want it's your game lol
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955039#Comment_3955039
Oh for sure you can slowdown in other ways, but when it comes to resurgence? There is zero counter to it, outside of proxy camping the hook.
Hemorrage + Leverage is a counter for Resurgence. Due to the unhook delay that happens (basically when you can't heal someone off hook), hemmorage will take their bar usually down to 50% before they start the heal, then leverage adds a 50% heal penalty onto the unhooker + the mangled debuff if it's something like gift of pain.
It's a bit overkill but it can have good results if you interrupt them since then resurgence will be completely wasted.
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@Callahan9116 said:
Hardly no one runs it already
You say that but I've been playing nothing but the event mode since it released and I see at least 1 vigil every game if not more
It's getting more popular as time goes on and people realise how much better it is/how much stuff it counters
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953559#Comment_3953559
>small tweak
>pods destroy the main fair play application of the power that enables this killer to be so good.
Im honestly sick of talking with you, such discussions always lead nowhere, especially when a person has no idea what he is talking about but has a confidence like he is the one who played this killer for 1500 games with 90% killrate and has 4ked top survivor teams in tourneys.
Previously, I'd waste hours trying to prove something to you, but I know it'd be a waste of time, you already have such a strong opinion, so let's just agree to disagree and not waste each other's (especially mine) energy and time.
To be fair, the whole 'emp destroy pod' thing wasn't the only thing I suggested and I even said I wasn't confident it was a good idea it was just something that came to mind. I don't feel that strongly about it lol I just enjoy the discussion. That's kinda why i'm here.
I'm sorry I caused you this much frustration over something as stupid as a tweak to a Killer's power. That wasn't my intention at all.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953548#Comment_3953548
nowhere have I said that singularity is OP so its disingenous to say that's misinformation on my part. All I've said is 3 gen singularity is frustrating to go against and could do with some kind of tweak to make it less so.
I dont see the difference because you're still calling out for unnecessary nerfs.
>Most survivors aren't going to waste an EMP removing some biopod you set up in a tile unless you're chasing them/they're slipstreamed already.
do you understand how singularity works / creates his map pressure or do I have to explain it from such basic level?
Singu's map pressure comes from having cameras on all / most points of interest which are generators and crates.
You dont put pods in random places, you put pods where people will be most of the time, constantly infect them and use that to make them waste more time.
Survivors can and will use EMPs to destroy pods the moment you infect the survivor, taking away about half of your pressure on average because you can make survivor leave generator about two times by threatening them with infection (and this threat, btw, doesnt work if you mindlessly tunnelling, theyll just ignore and commit to the gen).
>You also neglect to mention the fact that non generator oriented singularities are really good at using biopods in the middle of a chase to slipstream, something the biopod removal change wouldn't affect all that much in your average game. Then again, that's in my opinion, I could be wrong about that.
and you dont even neglect to mention, you simply dont seem to know that using biopods only in chase is highly inefficient and weak playstyle.
most efficient and skill expressive singularity performance is multitasking by simultaneously pressuring people on multiple generators and force rotations to win more time for chases and get EMPs out to get your power spike to happen.
putting pods primarily in chase is borderline useless and dismisses most of the character's power potential.
Say that Otz spreads misinfo all you like, the dude has his opinions the same as you I don't see why you gotta act like that about it. Nobody's opinion is objectively right or wrong.
and my opinion is this, if only there was a way to find out which opinion regarding objective reality is true or not by like discussing it instead of shoving your head into the sand and deflecting everything that contradicts it.
If you can't see the difference between:
"This killer is completely overpowered, easy mode and needs nerfing into the ground" vs "Yeah, maybe a small tweak would be nice here." then you're either completely blinded by your own bias or you have no idea what a nuanced opinion is.
Okay so, by your own logic Singularity's best spots for bio-pods are generators and crates? Right. Now that is something I agree on and it's also why I think on the survivor side EMPs should be just a bit better at dealing with that. That's all. I don't see how that's some scathing hot take.
Also I never said using biopods "ONLY" in chase. I just said it's something he can do and changes to EMPs wouldn't affect that much. Sure maybe in your experience using biopods mid chase is "inefficient and weak" but I disagree, I think good singularities can make not being slipstreamed nearly impossible using this method.
"Borderline Useless" just strikes me as someone who tried it a few times and it didn't go well and wrote it off as bad. I respect your opinion tho.
Sorry but "Objective reality" in a game where people have very different experiences, skill levels, playstyles and so on is, in your words "laughable". You wanna talk """objective reality""", killrates are the highest they've ever been according to BHVR stats with SWFs only surviving slightly more often than non swfs
So does that mean SWF is okay and not busted?
So does that mean Killer deserves a nerf?
The answer is obvious.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953526#Comment_3953526
Dont you think that seeing the pods go away gives him info survivors are back?
Again, youre essentially trying to cut off runner's arms to slow him down.
>Also I don't see the logic you're putting forward, you're saying EMPs removing biopods will push singularity into playing 3 gen playstyles more because it "neuters" him but then you say it won't do anything. Please explain how it's a neutering.
Play 3 gen, barely feel nerf because you're always there to replace them.
Dont play 3 gen, lose power because if you dont play 3 gen, you spread pods across the map and you cant replace them in that case.
Very simple logic.
In any case I dont believe the nerf is warranted. People complain about singularity yet still make rookie mistakes like instantly spending EMPs to destroy camera before hux even remembers to use it or trying to pop EMPs midchase while Singularity just has teleported to them, while most singularities barely keep up in spite of that because there's a lot you need to do well with the killer.
If people struggle with singu's 3 gen, they need to engage with 8 kick system which is very much doable, especially when singularity is unable to guarantee the only few maps with borderline impossible 3 gens.
This disinformation spread by otz and gullible people that singu's QoLs and minor buffs suddenly made him OP is nothing but disinformation.
First of all, nowhere have I said that singularity is OP so its disingenous to say that's misinformation on my part. All I've said is 3 gen singularity is frustrating to go against and could do with some kind of tweak to make it less so.
Alright so breaking down your logic - you say if you don't play 3 gen you'll lose your power because of survivors going out of their way to remove biopods but that highly debateable. Most survivors aren't going to waste an EMP removing some biopod you set up in a tile unless you're chasing them/they're slipstreamed already.
What makes survivors have to use EMPs on biopods in the first place is to ensure they are actually safe to stay on the gen even if the Killer's on the other side of the map.
You also neglect to mention the fact that non generator oriented singularities are really good at using biopods in the middle of a chase to slipstream, something the biopod removal change wouldn't affect all that much in your average game. Then again, that's in my opinion, I could be wrong about that.
Say that Otz spreads misinfo all you like, the dude has his opinions the same as you I don't see why you gotta act like that about it. Nobody's opinion is objectively right or wrong.
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No more autohaven/macmillan every game.
Good.
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3953344#Comment_3953344
i always find this suggestion laughable though it makes me sad it gets thrown around so much since singularity's release. eventually devs might get gaslit into thinking this is actually a good idea.
people dont seem to understand that this ingenious idea will not fix any of the grievances they have with singularity, in fact, this will make them worse because making EMPs remove pods will not do anything to stop singularity from defending 3 gens or instantly replacing the pods. It will just ensure this is the only thing he ever does because his power would get otherwise neutered so even good singularities that dont rely on his ultimate strategies will immediately proceed to playing for them and bad players will cry even harder that they dont even get a chance for a "not sweaty" game.
people also dont seem to understand they cant just mindlessly spam EMPs versus good singularity, they need to put some thought into it and at the very least avoid using EMPs when singularity is so close he can instantly nullify the value.
I don't know if it's the best idea, but what also enables singularity to defend 3 gens really well is the free tracking you'll always have so long as you have pods around gens and survivors are forced to deal with them or else they get slipstreamed while trying to work on the gen
Also I don't see the logic you're putting forward, you're saying EMPs removing biopods will push singularity into playing 3 gen playstyles more because it "neuters" him but then you say it won't do anything. Please explain how it's a neutering.
Like I said, that's just one of multiple changes they could make to try and alleviate people's issues. My ultimate point isn't about making emps "spammable" or anything like that. I just think if there's gonna be this long period of time to get the EMP as well as the hindered penalty, they should be just a bit more worthwhile outside of slipstream removal.
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I have a few pain points with Singularity as well despite him being a Killer I really like overall.
The main one for me though is: EMPs need to be more worth it for removing biopods - EMPs are really good for removing slipstream but you also have to use them to disable biopods that are protecting generators. There's also the fact that even if you disable one, singu can immediately just come back and replace it in no time at all.
Something that always bugs me is even though you've went out of your way to 'counter' Singularity's power, he still gets free info from the biopod you destroyed. Either make bashed biopods have no visual when you switch to them or make EMPs straight up remove them. It's not like they are hard to replace or anything like that.
I don't have any qualms about overclock mode. It's his chase power and he needs it.
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What's hilarious is this isn't even the first time a dev made this kind of joke
Last year or the year before, one of the dev quotes was
"I guess we can say this time "we did a pretty good job so far" and it was accompanied with a picture of Skull Merchant.
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@RizeKagune said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951893#Comment_3951893
Are you encountering a lot of Ghoul matches yourself? I've yet to play or try the event yet.
Yeah
I played about 12 games and 6 of them were ghoul. Rest were mostly Springtrap and the odd other killer.
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@RizeKagune said:
I understand why Kaneki can be unfun for survivors. I main Rize myself and the fun factor is there for sure with slinging across the map (being A tier helps I'm sure). Though there is ample counterplay when playing against Ghoul as there is for every other Killer.
Nonetheless there will always be players who seek out ways to ruin the fun for others. Best advice I can give is just try to enjoy the event for what it is. I know that's easier said than done though. Best of luck in your games.
Kaneki's main counterplay is pallets and the event just so happens to give Kaneki a way to completely bypass them.
Makes sense why a lot of people are finding it frustrating
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3951163#Comment_3951163
It depends on how the people I'm arguing with want you to play, and considering that one of them has advocated for basekit decisive I'm going to bet that it's not the first strategy you mentioned
I get what you mean.
The anti tunnelling mentality worries me a bit, not because I think it's fun gameplay to be taken from 1st hook to 3rd at 4 gens but because it's not a completely black and white issue.
You know those times where you just hooked a guy and let's say you kick a gen right next to them and just as you're done someone's ran up and unhooked them. No patience just "lol i'm unhooking now bozo" like the optimal play is to punish that misplay. But people would call that tunnelling despite the fact it's the other SURVIVOR's fault for not giving the killer a chance to go elsewhere and commit to someone else
(^ I've been the survivor on the hook in this scenario so many times btw and I can't say I blame Killers for punishing their opponents for bad play)
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950541#Comment_3950541
You can call it "working backwards" but can you explain how my statement is actually false?
If you're playing a card game and using bad cards and you beat your opponent, I am going to assume your opponent is pretty bad. The fact that neither you or anyone else has been trying to argue that those cards are actually good is proof enough for me that you guys know that splitting hooks is a bad strategy, but you still want killers to do it.Depends what you mean by 'Splitting hooks'.
If I focus my attention on two different survivors and make sure to go out of my way to not chase survivors who haven't been hooked previously then I don't see how that's comparable to say
Hooking all 4 survivors once each before anyone gets to second stage.
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The perk description says when a survivor loses a health state 'by any means'
So, yeah it should work. I use it on Legion and it works.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3950208#Comment_3950208
Ok. So if we're going to eliminate "killer advantage in chase," then we should eliminate survivor advantage in chase as well, right? No more God pallets, no more exhaustion perks, every tile is a 50/50. That's fair, right?
Sometimes in life, you play at a disadvantage. Adapt and overcome. Or don't, and Behavior will come hold your wittle hand.
I don't really get where your survivor antagonism comes from
You realise both sides have it hard in the game sometimes yeah? Killers get 4 man outed and bmed in the endgame chat, Survivors get sent from 1st to 3rd stage before they've even had a chance to touch a generator.
And I'm not even really for full on 'anti-tunnel' changes if they are too extreme because i think "tunnelling" in a certain form is necessary sometimes. It should be a tactic, not a full on playstyle.
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Just get a buddy with Shoulder the Burden.
They can take your first hook stage away so you can use deliverance.
I cannot guarantee this won't backfire in some spectacular fashion sometimes though