Brokenbones
Brokenbones
About
- Username
- Brokenbones
- Joined
- Visits
- 8,682
- Last Active
Comments
-
The Jasons I've went against are usually all Hex based ones
Ruin undying thrill and usually something like pain res. Seems pretty effective, started running Counterforce to try and offset it.
I will say though, one small thing that bothers me about Jason is - if he's trying to force out a survivor via proxying, he can eat through their endurance really easily if he hits the unhooker and unhooked survivor at the same time with a spear. Wesker can also do this if he grabs the unhooking survivor and slams them into the unhooked.
-
I think what I like most about Vsing Jason is he's one of those Killers who genuinely requires paying attention to your surroundings. You can't just zone out on a gen when you're facing him.
Knowing where the windows and pallet spots are and anticipating him appearing there will improve your experience against him dramatically.
-
This is ridiculous and it's nice that it doesn't seem like it's BHVR's fault as they have never ever punished people for restreaming their events in the past; they support their streamers. I think their own VODs got hit too??? Not sure on how factual that is
I don't know anything about this band but they should not be allowed to behave like this towards the community of one of their partners. If they didn't want people restreaming/uploading reactions to their stuff - then don't bloody put it in the livestream of a gaming community widely popular with streamers and content creators
-
@Linkdouken said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088902#Comment_4088902
Actually genius. I cannot believe I hadn't even considered this.
Of the two, Chem Trap is a bit harder to use because dropping pallets when he's not around is a gamble and might end up just being a waste - BUT
If Jason tries to use Omnipresent Evil mid chase to block a good pallet from you, pre-drop it and chem trap it. Not only will he be forced to break it, he'll get the chem trap effect on top of that.
-
You want something to help counter Omnipresent Evil?
Use Chem Trap and Bada Bada Boom.
His power forces him to either vault or break a downed pallet - which 100% trigger these perks if you have the foresight to set them up ahead of time.
-
@FerrousFacade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088686#Comment_4088686
I swear the fog gets thicker when he is nearby but that could just be happenstance or some sort of confirmation bias on my part. Like spirit you can also see grass move but that is map dependent.
I think it gets thicker when you crouch, that's what I noticed at least
-
@BigWeeWee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088316#Comment_4088316
This gets upvoted though lmaoooo
Who cares
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088630#Comment_4088630
So what is the killer doing if they're proxying a slug? Why is the slug not crawling away to a spot wheres its harder to pressure said objective? If people are spread out across the map this is quite easily one of the easiest pick ups. I've even up surges in Plot Twist and Unbreakable. Slugging IS counterable but since you know it isn't the norm like hooking has been for years people aren't prone to know how to counter it. Like quite literally if you're being chased take the killer as far away from the slug as possible or count their mobility tools like Unknowns teleport cooldown. Also if a killer is proxying a slug… just do gens? Literally the same logic as proxy'ing a hook. I just feel like you want to kill a strategy because 4-5 killers can really capitalize off it but the rest of the roster then just has to suffer.
And "Most people do not go into 4 man slug matches ready to deal with it." is not even a point. It's like complaining about getting ready for one team comp in a game, they don't run said team comp and now suddenly you're way weaker. That's not inherently a bad thing for the game.I don't want to kill the strategy though, even though admittedly - I don't like it.
I just think bleedouts should be removed IF this is going to be considered a valid win condition. I don't agree that bleeding survivors out is the win condition. That's just my perspective on it
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088615#Comment_4088615
The win condition by slugging is literally bleeding out, not by getting a 4-man slug I don't know where you got that info from. 4-man slugs just speed up the process tremendously. Also can you please tell me what you can do on hook that you can't do while slugged. The ONLY difference is being in the match 100 seconds longer if you do end up bleeding out assuming you went through 2 full hook stages.
But until hooks are actually worth it on low-mid tiers slugging will always remain as the best choice to win. You get more pressure on average and don't have to deal with unhook perks that could be used offensively. People dont just slug for the hell of it there's reasons to it.First of all, I never said people were "doing it for the hell of it" so not sure where you got that from lol.
Next up the comparison between being on a hook and being slugged:
- There is no built in counter measure to proxy camping/camping someone on the floor, meaning if the survivors try to pick someone up it's a lot easier to stop them
- There is no built in protections when you get up from the dying state, meaning a lot of times you just get hit straight back down unless the Killer was busy which they usually aren't considering they know someone has to pick up
- I'll just say this straight up, dying on the hook IS faster and that's a plus - it means the survivors aren't stuck in a match that won't drag on for an eternity because the Killer can't 4 man down everyone
- Most survivors are equipped to deal with being tunnelled off the hook or most expect it. Most people do not go into 4 man slug matches ready to deal with it. In fact WGLF being meta is one of the only saving graces most solo Q teams have at dealing with this strat.
- It takes longer to heal someone from the floor than it does to unhook; either they have to sit there and recover or someone has to heal them fully. Both take a while, compared to the brief time to unhook
Again you say "make hooks worth it" but even if they did, people would still do this. You and I both know that.
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088611#Comment_4088611
Yes, and there's no issue with that. Tell me what's wrong on the players part for wanting to use only slugging as a win condition.
It creates matches where even if the Killer can't actually achieve their 'win condition' (Everyone down), they still end up winning anyway because of the bleedout timer or survivors abandoning due to how mind numbingly boring it is
That's why I made the post saying it should be removed, because if people want this to be a valid strategy then they should only win when they actually get their win condition.
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088592#Comment_4088592
Incentivizing hooking will work for the people that would prefer to hook but simply dont want to since hooking is just the wrong choice in a lot of matches. People slug because understandably they want to win the game which shouldn't be a concept shunned as much as it is in the DBD community. And as it stands slugging is legit the best chance you have of winning for how little survivors have to work nowadays especially as weaker killers.
You realise this thread is about Killers who are using a purely 'only slug' strat, yeah?
As in, never hooking ever and slugging until all 4 survivors are down.
Slugging when necessary is only complained about by people who don't understand it. People's complaints about 4 man slug playstyles however have validity.
-
Also we all know the REAL money makers will be adding Hex Girl cosmetics for Sable, Mikeala and… Someone else. Maybe Vee??
Like, come on - we all know that'll come at some point.
-
Felix = Fred. Both blonde dudes with questionable fashion
Renato = Shaggy. Something about it just seems right, he kinda has a similar vibe.
These are my two predictions.
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088592#Comment_4088592
Yeah, its always funny. Either people who say this are either really naive or they know exactly that to make hooking better than slugging, the Devs would need to buff hooking to such an amount that Killers will have very easy games. Same with tunneling vs. going for different Survivors. And I am very sure that people who claim that the Devs should buff hooking massively know exactly what they are asking for.
And even if hooking is only buffed, as long as slugging stays so strong, Killers will not suddenly start hooking. It has been proven time and time again that just giving incentives alone is not enough.
I'm sorry but the various "comp" Blights I see doing this strat to try and speedrun their winstreaks aren't suddenly gonna start hooking people because they get a small buff from it
Not happening, ever.
-
Kaneki queue times jump to 1hr +
Imagine.
-
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088316#Comment_4088316
No bleed out has to stay. People are slugging because of the state of the game being, hooks simply arent worth it on a lot of killers. The issue is the GAME STATE not the players. So instead of nerfing slugging… how about we add incentives to hooking without the downsides they provided in the first batch of anti-everything ptb (9.1.0).
So you seriously think incentivising hooking more will stop these playstyles?
You're completely wrong if you think that, straight up.
Most people do not play like this.
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088346#Comment_4088346
So maybe you have a different definition of cheese than I do. To me cheese is something removing skill from the game to achieve your desired result. Tunneling is forcing the 1v3 as fast as possible which to me removes skill from the game. Slugging is requiring more skill with how much you're juggling. Which is also why I only say its better on specific killers and if the killer is actually very good. Any average killer or below skill wise its not going to be better. If it was cheese and removed skill I'd simply recommend it on most players, but most players are not able to win 4 slugging, and that's because it is requiring more skill. I also wouldn't specific saying "bleeding out", the goal isn't bleeding out even though that "can" happen. The game ends on 4 down. IE as soon as 4 are down I immediately am hooking them all. The goal isn't to be toxic and watch people bleed. It's just efficiency.
If they are consistently getting downed over and over with so much pressure that none of them are on gens they are not playing well. This is not happening against good survivors unless you're on an killer that's an exception to the rules like Nurse, Blight, ect. Speaking of the general killer population here. "boom you're now in the 3v1" This is acting as if this is fast, that is a long bleed out timer. Way longer than it would take someone say tunneling someone out. Not the same.
Slugging strats do generate good pressure, that's their pro. Their con is they're high risk. If the killer isn't skilled enough to actually score the 4 down, they've gained nothing. The bleed out is so long they should have the gens long done by this point. So I wouldn't really consider 1v3 a point in the scenario.
And I appreciate the calm conversation we are having on it. As you can see in other posts here most let their emotions get the best of them and are coming at me significantly more aggressive/insulting instead of just a normal conversation like ours. As you mention here though it's usually not working unless it's an S tier killer and even then it's rough. That's because it takes a lot of skill. For the record I primarily play solo queue for survivor as well and I don't personally mind this play style. It usually doesn't work for them. I even have more time on survivor than killer.
To clarify, my definition of cheese is around the same as yours. Catching a survivor the first time? That takes skill. Repeatedly downing them when they are stuck injured and are constantly being forced to sit and wait? There's no skill involved in that. Being downed one time shouldn't mean you're basically out of the game until everyone else is down. Hooking at least is a time investment on the Killer's part, has built in counters for camping and like you mentioned triggers perks that help keep them in the game.
I am aware that 'bleeding out' isn't the goal of the strat, but if the survivors don't immediately fold to it - that's inevitably what happens unless the Killer really messes up and overcommits to someone (Which they typically don't do in my experience, proxying their slugs is more effective).
Alright, about the playing well thing - can you really argue that a Killer doing this strat and NOT downing all 4 survivors is playing well, then? I mean - your endgoal is to 4 man slug then hook everyone and if you can't do that, then are you playing well? Or are you gonna get bailed out by the inevitable bleedout/survivors just abandoning? This is why I argued the removal of bleedout, to remove this 'bailout' for lack of a better word.
As for the 3v1 thing - if you want to really get into the nitty gritty - you are CONSTANTLY making the match a 3v1 by slugging. Survivors on the ground cannot do anything, they are effectively out of the game until picked up. Then let's say you down another survivor while the first one is still recovering, now it's effectively a 2v1. I'm not sure how you can say this isn't the same as tunnelling it achieves the same thing just a different route.
I appreciate the conversation as well, truth be told I don't really mind full slug strats either because I know counters to it. I've routinely been BMed and W/S'd by Bleedout blights because I make their life miserable by constantly jumping into lockers in the far corners of the map. It's pretty amusing.
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088331#Comment_4088331
Not exactly. Most win streaks not slugging are tunneling, which I would consider cheese and is removing skill from the game. I'd say juggling 4 survivors without the benefits from hook related perks takes more skill than eating through some anti tunnel to make it a 1v3 asap. Your having to take the strongest perks in the game but that is offset by the ease you're gaining of the 1v3.
It does not, I don't agree with your interpretation for the reasons above.
I do kind of agree with you about it being much harder on lower tier killers, you are correct about that.
But if you call tunnelling cheese, then I gotta say bleedout kills are cheese too then by your own logic.
If the survivors are playing well and not getting 4 man downed - even in that scenario the Killer is going to be constantly knocking them down over and over. Eventually, you just win because someone bled out and boom you're now in the 3v1 just like someone being tunnelled.
You can say it takes longer, but sluggging strats are strong because of how much pressure and time they take away from survivors on gens. Someone being tunnelled can still buy a lot of time for their team with their chases (against most of the roster). Compare that to just being left on the ground, unable to do anything and having to wait for a pickup.
Though I want you to understand my perspective is founded on my experience against bleedout killers as a Solo Q main. I've beaten full slug killers before and the only ones to usually win are Blight's running stuff like infectious, coulrophobia, distressing and double speed (The so called speedrun build). AND EVEN THEN the match still takes like 10+ minutes.
-
@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088327#Comment_4088327
Its actually a nerf lmao because in power you could vault, get blinded, it would instantly end your power and you could down the survivor. Same goes for breaking pallets/generators and whatnot its really good too use if you have good hearing.
Oh, I didn't think of that
So a good legion could hypothetically let the survivor start the blind, vault (pallet breaks) then immediately m1 because being blinded ends the power
haha you're right that is a nerf, what a weird backhanded change.
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088318#Comment_4088318
You're attributing winstreaks to slugging instead of the skill of the player.
Surely if it's only about skill, then that means people who go on winstreaks and are not using full slug strats are more skilled then? Because they actually have to deal with and play around the strongest perks in the game?
Which, if you factor that in, does technically make full slugging strats easier than playing normally. Meaning cogsturning's point still holds up imo
-
It's pretty funny that basically nobody knew this was a thing because blinding Legion during a pallet vault is really difficult due to how fast it is
You'd need to time a flashbang perfectly to do it mid vault.
I almost wonder if this was added to stop problems from arising from Legion being knocked out of their power mid vault or something. (Even though you can blind them when they vault windows still, no idea)
-
Potential controversial take here, but
If people want full slug strats and builds to stay, then the bleedout timer has to go.
There are so many games where the survivors are actually pushing back and countering the strat but they lose anyway because someone bleeds out after being on the floor too long.
I know the bleedout timer was originally an anti-griefing mechanic to stop survivors being held in the dying state permanently, but with the abandon feature being a thing now it's not really necessary. Just add 'If a survivor is in the dying state for x amount of time, they can abandon'. Problem solved
If people want to ignore the hooking portion of the game, they shouldn't be getting kills out of it unless they manage to down everyone at once.
-
Best wishes @CountOfTheFog I hope you recover asap!!
-
@Mushwin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087420#Comment_4087420
I had a french streamer, live! tv n all and not been hooked all game, bit left me on the floor while they did a totem and a gen, then cos of their map offering they ditched to the hatch as i died i am like #########, was like yay lol I did that
Typically I'll just let the killer get me then let go on the hook if it's the 2 survivor scenario and there's no hope of winning (aka more than 1 gen left)
Otherwise I'll try to pick them up if they want but if not I'll just hide until Killer picks them up and go for hatch myself.
-
Same as me, the people who play 4 man slug matches
Seriously, it's the lamest playstyle a Killer can do imo. Some say its to speedrun matches but if the survivors are even half decent, even if they lose it will drag on for an eternity
Thankfully if you get downed like 2-3 times in a row you can just abandon but I wish something would be done to mitigate this particular playstyle. Not saying I want full anti-slug mechanics but still; even if the killer is struggling to actually 4 man down everyone, they eventually win due to bleedout timers constantly ticking down.
-
@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087072#Comment_4087072
Do… you not hear the words in your head before you type them? Seriously I don't know what to say to this. You are going back to the unhooked person to tunnel them out. That's literally what you just wrote.
Okay, I'm going to make this as simple as I can possibly make it.
- Killer hooks a survivor A
- Goes away and chases someone else, while this is happening survivor A is unhooked by survivor C
- Killer downs and hooks survivor B
- Killer then finds Survivor A again who instead of hiding/healing was playing aggressively
- Killer downs them, picks them up and gets hit with Decisive Strike
So, how is this tunnelling? Explain it to me.
-
@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087046#Comment_4087046
Okay then just hook the downed person. If you are that close that you are running into the person hooked you were already hard camping and should be able to easily get the unhooked person.
I don't think you understand
How is it "tunnelling" if I go after a completely different survivor, hook them and then go back after someone who still had their DS active?
-
@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086275#Comment_4086275
Easy solution, just don't tunnel. Seriously, it's that easy.
That's what makes it funny though
A lot of killers try to go for other targets but the person off the hook is playing aggressively because they want to "get tunnelled" and use their anti-tunnel perks.
I've had games where I go after a completely different survivor, down them, hook them and find someone who I hooked before and they still had DS. By your logic, I tunnelled.
How?
-
If I play the game at a certain time of the day, I sometimes encounter this one player who seemingly holds a grudge against me and will relentlessly go out of their way to make sure I either die as fast as possible or bleed me out while w/sing me as the last survivor.
The few times I've encountered them, they never did this to anyone else nor did I do anything in the match to prompt it. My guess is for some reason they harbour a grudge on someone who doesn't even have a clue who they are lol. Any time this happens to me and I see their name in the EGC my first thought it was always "makes sense."
Also this isn't meant to be a complaint, I think it's hilarious that someone out there can hold this kind of grudge while the other person doesn't even know who they are.
I think people these days call it "Rent free"?
-
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086275#Comment_4086275
But if someone is doing that, then the Killer can just pick them up, eat the DS and tunnel them out after the next Hook. It is not like you lose a game when you eat DS and if the Survivor decides to Plot Twist right in the front of the Killer, this is way worse for the Survivor than for the Killer.
Doesn't feel good to be hit by that though which leads to people complaining. It's a lose/lose scenario for the Killer.
But my point wasn't about how "good" the strat is, the point is that it's one of the big reasons why people are complaining about plot twist rn. Weaker killers being forced to either eat a DS or let a survivor be healed to full.
-
@cogsturning said:
Why are we suddenly talking about this old, mid perk like its OP?
@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086255#Comment_4086255
hey, take that back mate Nic Cage is the survivor GOAT! people just can't handle his awesomeness
but yeah idk why it's coming up in conversation lately.
Because using Plot Twist to force DS is becoming extremely commonplace
Not even exaggerating I see it in my solo Q games all the time.
-
Only if they give him a dedicated taunt button
"YOU SUCK!"
-
Surely the ideal situation for both roles, would be being able to run whatever perk loadout you want and still have a chance to win. Unfortunately, as is the nature of Multiplayer games this is unfeasible because both sides continually improve and thus have to adapt to each other's efficiency; thus meta strats are born.
There's no real point to going "well survivors what do YOU want killers to run" because the exact opposite also applies. Survivors run their chase perks/second chance perks because they help prolong chase and counter the strongest meta strats in the game so Killers then have to adapt to THAT and it just continues and continues.
Personally, I'd like for slowdown/chase perks to not be 100% necessary for both roles but EVEN IF that were true, people would still run them regardless. They'd still be meta due to what role they fill.
The true solution to this problem, outside of the developer rebalancing meta perks in 'shakeups' like done previously, is to just stop caring what people run and accept that they are ran for a perfectly justifiable reason.
-
Impossible Geometry…
Buried Beneath…
Be my eyes…
Hold them…
-
I love Plot Twist to death, it's one of the best designed perks in the game but I have to ask…
How is intentionally downing yourself NOT a conspicuous action? The main reason you use plot twist is the heal and healing is a conspicuous action so… What gives?
The comparison to Locker DS is interesting but at least locker DS doesn't heal the survivor if you ignore them (unless they also use inner strength with it, but that takes more prep). Locker DS is also easy to mess up if the Killer gives you deep wound first
It really is the definition of lose/lose for killers who tunnel but also killers who punish survivor misplays. If the survivor who got unhooked chooses not to get healed and instead play aggressively, what are you really meant to do other than just ignoring them and letting them get fully healed?
I don't know how I'd fix it, personally. I think Plot Twist is fine as is and survivors can always just run into the Killer to get downed anyway to use their DS, it's more so the fact they pressure the killer into picking them up right then and there or otherwise they're fully healed and the chase was a waste of time.
-
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085256#Comment_4085256
What coup offers for killer in value compare what DH offers to survivor is huge difference.
To be it compareable you would need coup that oneshots to have simular value or perk that downs survivor through endurence (which doesnt exixts).
DH power still keeps it in hardcore meta for survivor but coup isnt that high in killer meta at best is high mediocre perk and this mostly proves my point, if coup was that good to rival DH it would be in meta too difference is killers are very different then survivors so coup only works for few killers mostly m1 killers and its effects arent so important for majority of killers compare the effects of DH to every survivor.
Thats like comparing leverage to we will make it or resourgence, just look at how many killers runs leverage from merchant and how many survivors are using these two healing perks that activate after unhook same as leverage.
Yeah I never said the perks were as strong as each other
Just that they both do something similar, if coup affected power lunges it would probably be meta and ran on so many killers.
-
So, Dead Hard is a perk that lets survivors avoid a hit that would otherwise down them and get a speed boost, right?
Hm, what's a perk that'd give a Killer a hit/speed boost they otherwise wouldn't get and also has limited uses
Oh yeah, it exists. It's called 'Coup de Grâce'.
lol
-
@Mr_K said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084255#Comment_4084255
What you see here is just a typical reaction when you take something away from a child.
Diminishing Returns purpose was to remove extreme edge cases from occuring. Healing was the first complaint after you post, but is the very reason the system should exist. Stacking perks so a survivor can heal as fast as the original Self Care / We'll Make It combo is not healthy. This system will prevent such combos from appearing in the future as the every increasing pool of perks continues.
That's a completely unfair conclusion.
Comparing niche altruistic healing builds to old self care + we'll make it makes absolutely no sense. The strongest healing perks in the game were unchanged by the system and survivors can already be healed super fast with either resurgence or medkits + botany.
How is someone wanting to run something like desperate measures + botany to heal their teammates quickly the same as what you said, please elaborate
-
@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084820#Comment_4084820
P92 Krasue here!! :D
Body blocking is screamed often as the biggest counter, when playing against a SWF its very effective, especially if they are consistent with it. But the main thing to keep in mind is that she's very slow with vaulting, she cannot break pallets in head form, and camping strong areas on the map can waste a lot of the Krause's time.
The goal is to force her out of head form as much as possible so that she cannot get you with her lunge, she's extremely slow during the transition, if you're at a strong pallet she has no choice but to break it and that can allow you to make distance also to. She's very slow with vaulting, and if you have a good set up pallet + window she pretty much has to waste time going back to body form, breaking the pallet, and catching up with head form again. What's very important to do if you're versing a Krasue is to plan where you're going to run to, memorizing certain maps has really helped me with that.
Krasue cannot regurgitate on the ground, have it splatter and immediately get it on you, she's not like unknown, the only way to get the leech on you is if she uses certain things like rocks, trees, etc. to get it onto the survivor, or if she lands a perfect shot on the survivor which can be tricky as dodging the power isn't too difficult. When regurgitating onto a rock or tree, it has a mini auto aim that targets the survivor when the player does this, my advice to avoid this is to keep an eye when she's trying to leech you, act unpredictable, holding W can be effective, though you are eventually are most likely to get leeched as her cooldown when using the power is very short, if you have a strong loop/window near you, you will be fine as what I stated above earlier can be useful.
Always take advantage of mushrooms when you can, my advice, never eat the mushroom in chase when you AREN'T safe what so ever, you are slowed and the animation takes a couple of seconds, I see many survivors do this and it results in them getting hit/downed, do it when you know that you're absolutely going to be fine or last in chase for a while, example: at a strong tile, or if the Krasue leaves you which gives you plenty of time to reset. Don't panic eat, and play safe.
Due to how restrictive she can be that is a perfect opportunity for your team to crank generators when you're in chase with her. I hope this helped, not many people play her but if you ever need any advice, you can ask me! :)
These types of tiles are also very strong against Krasue, having two pallets side by side is a nightmare for the killer, you can simply vault back and forth between these two pallets, the tile when these pallets are dropped become very good, as stated prior she's very slow with vaulting and cannot break, if the player tries to fly to you to close the distance with this tile, vaulting back destroys any chance of a hit as the fly power only lasts a limited time, and will definitely have to go into body form to break them, free distance right here.
Your insight is very helpful and much appreciated, I'll try to keep that in mind
Thank you!
-
At the moment, Krasue is probably at the top of my list
Her counterplay is really unintuitive and one of her main counters is bodyblocking from teammates which just makes solo Q against her a nightmare. I struggle in chase against her because I feel like getting infected is inevitable and then you have to account for the massive lunge, faster head form speed + the mobility aspect of her kit
Probably just a skill issue on my part, but I really do think her counterplay isn't really easily understandable.
-
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084785#Comment_4084785
Sometimes to prevent tunneling you have to be catchable and even be willing to throw yourself on hook to prevent the tunnel.
I wish more people understood how significant of a macro power move this can be. It feels really nice as survivor to have three gens pop right as the killer gets their first hook, but I also know how that stress spike feels for that killer, and that someone who wasn't going to be nasty might kick it into overdrive. I often fake a bad chase and get downed to lower their stress levels and distract them, and since I run perks that make me almost untunnelable, they're not likely to catch me if they come back to the hook, and then, we have the advantage. The most important thing I think there is to know about survivor gameplay is that hook states are a shared resource.
Sprint burst is definitely a major culprit of this, an uninjured surv hauling ass away with an sb prerun is basically a non starter for chase. Any smart killer won't engage.
And that's exactly why I think it's a harmful perk for survivors overall, unless it's a 4man and they're all running it.
One of my favourite macro moves is when I can see my teammates are on the last gen, I'll do something dumb in the killers face and run them in the completely opposite direction of that gen, by the time I'm downed and hooked the gen is usually done
It's risky but it's very rewarding and satisfying when done right.
-
Really hate to do this but i'm also in the 'Xenomorph was disappointing' camp.
Now I wanna say I don't dislike Xeno on either role. I like vsing them for the most part and I find some enjoyment playing them but I don't really think the power and overall vibe of the Killer is authentic enough to Xenomorph.
No Sigourney Weaver which I can't fault BHVR for because if an actress says no, nothing they can do. I don't actually dislike the Ripley we got she's cool and her voice actress does a good job in my opinion.
The music is good, that's a plus
The map was disappointing for me personally because I was hoping we'd get a 'Ship in space' map and not the crashed nostromo/alien planet hybrid that we got. I know indoor maps are infamously hated so I guess most people don't mind that.
-
@ArcT said:
Okay, then you don't see them use Sprint Burst immediately in chase. Since Exhaustion perks are so common, you can safely assume that they're just waiting to use Lithe, Balanced, Dead Hard, or whatever. Now you once again have your rationale that the chase will take somewhat longer because they DON'T have Sprint Burst, and convenient excuse for abandoning it to return to the hook. All roads once again lead to tunnelling, because there is nothing stopping you.
People don't need "excuses" to tunnel, you can do it whenever you want for whatever reason you want
What OP and some others are saying is they believe Sprint Burst more so than other exhaustion perks encourages Killers to go "damn, not chasing that guy he's on the other side of the map where all the pallets are now" and then going after a more logical target instead.
I know that tunnelling is considered a cheap path to victory for some but people should acknowledge it's sometimes what you have to do to win. If you take every chase, you will lose as Killer. You have to choose your battles.
-
@TropesDaMan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084509#Comment_4084509
I have never played Xenomorph so i have no idea how he works naturally. This entire post was encouraged by a friend of mine who told me that Xeno could use a buff. He does seem very fun to play though
Basically Xeno can sometimes feel like a 'feast or famine' type killer
If survivors aren't diligent on turrets, chases end quickly because dodging xeno's tail is tricky and good xeno players know how the lingering hitbox works to make the most out of it. Kinda like how Nemesis can tentacle drag, that kind of thing. Pair that with their mobility and that's the 'feast' type
Then you get to face survivors who are diligent on turrets:
- They will daisy chain you from turret to turret
- They will place turrets on hills that can shoot down at you and you can't easily destroy (Yes this is a thing)
- They will place turrets around the corners of tiles meaning you are forced to turn away from things like windows/pallets in order to destroy them
- They will place 2 turrets close together, meaning even if you destroy one the other one removes your power anyway.
Overall people's consensus that Xeno is strong but feels really annoying to play is pretty spot on most of the time.
-
@Brimp said:
Its a harsh truth. A lot of what survivors can actively encourage tunneling without them realizing it. Tunneling can be a reactionary action. Let's say I hook someone across the map and come back to near where the previous unhook was and found a survivor near a dead zone on a gen but just sprint bursts away to a strong setup by pre-running. What incentive do I have to go for that person when there's a survivor closer to death hook who I also know the general location of? At that point it's just better to let that gen go. This is especially the case on weaker killers and I'm not even talking about Ghost Face I'm talking a solid B tier like nemesis.
That's where I find it funny when people use the "if you tunnel you wont get much better" when it can be quite the opposite in terms of improving your macro gameplay because its either go through guaranteed two health states in a strong setup with less hook stages or go for the person thats at least 1 hook stage in which would cause way more pressure for the team.Exactly.
It's the same logic behind those types of survivors who'll unhook you then let you eat dirt if the Killer comes back. What's the Killer logically gonna do, press their advantage or 'be nice' and look for someone else?? Answer's pretty obvious.
It's kinda why I always run stuff like babysitter + we'll make it. Both scenarios are covered then.
-
I'm surprised some people aren't really using it considering it counters some of the most common perks in the game for mobility killers like BBQ or Friends Till the end. If everyone started using this perk, mobility killers would struggle a lot more.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084255#Comment_4084255
While nothing's being directly and dramatically affected (outside of stacking four of the same modifier, which was the point anyway), there are a few things I'd personally think are worth looking at, which I'll put in a bulletin list for convenience:
- Power of Two and Blood Pact. Specifically together; it's the only time anyone ran these two perks that I'm aware of, and even then it was a gimmick thing. It's one of the few instances where I think the lessened stacking actually matters for just two perks, but what I'd recommend is slightly buffing Power of Two then reworking Blood Pact, there's no reason for both to be in the game at once.
- Fire Up. While this perk's main draw - the pickup speed - isn't affected that much, it is one of those instances where you'd want to pair it with something else for the other effects (think Brutal Strength for the break speed, or Bamboozle for the vault speed) but the new system makes that not really worth it. This isn't catastrophic for Fire Up because it does multiple things at once, so one thing being lowered is less relevant proportionally, but it's still worth looking at.
- Babysitter. Now I might be wrong about this, I haven't had this perk used on me so I can't test, but I believe Babysitter's Haste effect is just immediately and inherently reduced by the off-hook Haste you get by default. Again, not a catastrophic deal because Babysitter does more things + the Haste lasts longer than the basekit Haste anyway, but worth looking at.
- Champion of Light and Fixated. Specifically together, the two are fine individually with other strong use cases, but I think the combo's worth evaluating. Could be a reasonable thing to accept as collateral, could warrant changes.
- Better Than New. This isn't a perk that's actually affected by the DR system itself, but I want to highlight that the DR system opens up a new buff for this perk to allow it to give a chase buff- if you give it vault speed now, stacking with Finesse is less scary, and then the perk can fully realise its potential as "you're now buffed for anything you do except repair".
- In general, small percentage Haste perks like Batteries Included and Undone can safely be made a bit better than they currently are. This probably applies to survivor too but the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Dark Theory which I don't think necessarily should be buffed that way, it needs a secondary effect more than a numbers buff.
I wouldn't consider this list a rundown of perks that need changes because of the DR system, at least not all of them, but I do think these are among the best potential candidates for the DR system allowing more robust buffs.
Overall this system was implemented pretty smoothly. It does what it's meant to without significant collateral damage. However, at the same time, a huge amount of this system's potential value is in the future changes it allows, so I'd really love to see those changes happen sometime soon.
I think if they wanted to 'fix' babysitter, they could rework it to behave like 'No one Left Behind' where it doesn't give the survivor haste, it INCREASES their basekit haste by the % instead.
Maybe some would think that's too strong but that's how babysitter worked pre-diminishing returns so it can't have been too bad.
-
Here's my feedback regarding Diminishing returns as a healing build enjoyer:
First thing - 'Builds it has affected the most':
On the survivor side, 'Healing' centric builds are the main thing that has taken a hit from these changes and I believe that was one of the intentions behind the system to begin with as it was quite well known that fast healing on the survivor side can completely break the game for a lot of the Killer roster.
The issue is, the best healing perks in the game (We'll make it, We're gonna live forever, Botany Knowledge and Circle of Healing) are all good by themselves and usually aren't the perks that get toned down by Diminishing returns. It's the weaker perks that suffer, effectively making them dead perk slots if you run them with the better perks despite the weaker perks usually being good 'combo' pieces when combined.
Let's take two weaker perks and combo them together and see what happens:
Example: Desperate measures + Empathic connection:
So Desperate Measures increases healing speed & unhooking speed by 20% per injured survivor and Empathic connection increases altruistic healing speed by 35%. Now think about this:
Desperate measures at 1 injury goes from 20% to 10%
Then 2 injuries it goes to 40%, causing empathic connection to be permanently set to 17.5%. Making it effectively a dead perk slot outside of it's aura, despite this being such a small increase
This just means people will look at these perks and just go "nah, medkits, wglf, botany knowledge and we'll make it or nothing".
tl;dr: When it comes to healing, the system makes weak perks weaker and only slightly tones down the stronger combos. Also does nothing about Resurgence which undermines the whole notion of Diminishing returns helping combat fast heal speeds.
Second Thing - Gen rush/speed increase builds were not really affected:
So 'generator speed' stacking perks do get toned down by Diminishing returns. That is a fact and personally I think that's for the best overall. a lot of Killers struggle with generators as is and feel the need to run slowdown perks to help. The issue though the best 'genrush' combos were not toned down in the slightest by Diminishing returns.
The only generator speed increases you're going to see people using outside of toolboxes are resillience, deja-vu and prove thyself and that's it. I highly doubt diminishing returns impacts any of these perks to any significant degree.
Hyperfocus + Stake out have 0 interactions with diminishing returns as far as I can tell as none of them actually modify the 'speed' of the repairs, what they do is increase the amount of progress a skillcheck gives a generator and correct me if I'm wrong but that isn't in the list of modifiers on the list.
I've missed a ton of stuff from the Killer side but I haven't experience much of the system on the Killer side, I imagine its mainly impacting haste centric builds or full gen speed debuff builds like thana + dying light + pentimento or something like that.
-
Makes sense if you think about it, you want everyone's attention on the new content first so any glaring things can be ironed out ahead of release.
I've always seen the mid-chapter patches as the 'live balance' updates. Though sometimes they do squeeze in a few balance tweaks into big release patches. Probably just how dev time works.
-
It was decent when it removed charges over time due to the fact that was the only real answer to medkits, healing requires 16 charges so an item losing only a few charges can really disrupt that. Of course, it got nerfed and now no longer does this.
The reason for that nerf has to be the dumbest thing though, I am about 90% sure Franklins was only nerfed because of Fog Vials and keys. These items got changed to not use charges but instead numbered uses. I don't know why but it seems like they couldn't figure out how to make Franklins interact with that system (Or straight up didn't want to) so they got rid of it with no real compensation buff.
And if you think I'm grasping, this has actually happened before. When Nemesis got added, Franklin's got changed to no longer delete items from the trial because the developers either didn't want a perk to be able to delete 'special' items like Vaccines or Flashbangs or couldn't figure out how to make the perk not delete them.
A problem they would later fix by making them take up their own slot.
AND YET DESPITE THAT
Franklin's never got buffed to delete items again.