Blueberry
Blueberry
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664697#Comment_2664697
S = Super balanced
A = Almost balanced
B = Badly in need of a buff
C = Can we get this buffed already
D = Don't bother playing
This is an accurate representation of tier list levels. Totally agree.
I hate when people call killers in B tier balanced. Extremely weak is not balanced.
Unfortunately the level of balance that DBD seems to aim their killers for is around B tier, which explains a lot of the problems we have.
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Yeah I'm expecting some unnecessary nerfs that gut her. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.
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Blendette, Q&Q, BL, IW, DwM
Throw a Glenvale offering.
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@Labrac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2664354#Comment_2664354
The worst things is that most of those changes are not even that complicated. They are basically number changes in the sense they don't have to built anything from the ground like they have with new characters or maps.
Yeah a lot of it would require very little work.
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There may be a couple things I wasn't the biggest fan of but overall it was mostly unanimously liked changes by most people. Good stuff across the board.
Not sure why they can't just watch that and replicate. Would've been the best patch we've ever seen, and it was made by a player lol.
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The only unique and fun things about him were removed. The quick scope and low TR.
Now he's just a bad and less fun Huntress.
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Corrupt Intervention and Lethal Pursuer.
Both highly overrated and not as good as people think.
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Equal skill level, hence the clone, the survivors win every time.
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@GrayEyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2663350#Comment_2663350
Tbf he couldn't have played it much better what else could he have done chase someone else for 30-50 secs and lose the same amount of gens?
Oh I agree with you.
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@DemonDaddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2663352#Comment_2663352
That's my point, the survivors had full control but botched it. Devs use the outcome data without context; so by data alone the killer over performed despite it being the survivors fault.
Sums up the story of the games balance problems.
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That's the thing, he could've played that game perfectly and he still would've lost. There are many unwinnable games at top MMR with how unbalanced the game is.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2662643#Comment_2662643
You mean those Killrates where Killers claim that they dont matter if they are presented with Killrates over 60%?
There's a difference between kill rates not being an accurate representation of game balance and measuring the percentage change in said kill rates from removing a certain perk type. Just because kill rates aren't useful for measuring balance doesn't mean they aren't useful for other things as I'm representing here.
I get the funny point you think you're making but it's inaccurate and not understanding the point I'm actually making.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/294928/nemesis-discussion
The best thing about Nemesis is his ease of use. He's not the greatest, but his gameplay is very comfy. He just needs some adjustments to the part of his power you're going to rely on the most, Tentacle Whip. The whip needs to be applying a debuff, preferable exhaustion or hindered so that survivors are driven to want to cleanse with a vaccine. Right now one of the biggest ways to slow down Nemmy's snowball potential is to get infected once and never cleanse. Being infected doesn't carry any downside, but it you're infected that means Nemmy can't get the big bonus to mutation rate on first hit. It's better to just walk up to a zombie and left them infect you can then Nemesis himself has a much lower mutation rate build.
You basically deny him quick tier 2 with that strat and the only downside is you take two hits to down instead of three which is...perfectly normal as if he'd not been using his tentacle at all!
Zombie pathing needs more adjustments and AI needs more adjusts, but giving them big jumps in movement speed is probably never going to make it out of the drafts. The most realistic thing is increased detection range.
Increasing vaccine usage time would be a nice to have, but it isn't mission critical considering there isn't a real reason to cleanse to start with.
Maybe 30-40 seconds of Exposed is more balanced for vaccine as it does give killer instinct to Nemesis when someone uses one.
Silent zombies would be interesting, but not having audio cues for things almost always results in a nerf call so I would drop this part. Maybe take the speed boost down to 75% so its more realistic. Again, giving zombies large jumps in movement speed for that long isn't going to make it out of the drafts.
The problem with this is it's just improving his anti-loop, which is already his only redeeming quality. Anti-loop killers aren't fun for survivors to face. You're essentially taking something that's already not fun and making it even less fun. Map pressure killers are fun for survivors as they still get to have their fun chases without it costing the killer the entire game.
We need to improve him through his map pressure essentially.
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@SpiritWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/289123/give-nemesis-a-rush-ability#latest
I think what he really needs is a chase ability, Nemesis is literally called The Chaser / Pursuer for a reason.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/267106/nemesis-buff-suggestions#latest
As for his Tentacle, since they don't want to remove the speed boost on Infection (Not Dmg Hit) a Rush would be the perfect.
However his T3 Tentacle IMO should be able to damage / infect & break pallets.
Currently it feels like if Michael's T3 gave him an extended lunge with no Insta Down
I do agree that the Vaccine should take 10 seconds longer.
"I think what he really needs is a chase ability, Nemesis is literally called The Chaser / Pursuer for a reason."
They simply aren't going to do things like this. It's too much work for them and essentially redesigning the killer. His strongest feature is already his chase as well, so making that even stronger makes no sense.
"However his T3 Tentacle IMO should be able to damage / infect & break pallets."
This would be a good change. I do however think buffing his map pressure would be the better route for improving him though. Strong chase killers aren't fun for survivors to play against. Strong map pressure killers can allow them to compete while also giving fun chases.
Maybe hitting T3 could also buff the zombies more. Faster, further detection range ect.
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Turn off all Exhaustion perks for a weekend to see the results. We would see a significant increase in kill rates. Exhaustion perks carry a lot, it's a literal 3rd health state every 40 seconds.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
BHVR are making an error of judgement, I believe. They're trying to shake up the meta by adding even more powerful perks, rather than looking to weaken existing power perks and adding perks which compliment existing perks or newer mechanics. By doing what they are, it will cause greater issues.
They ought to slow down, think about how best to plan the direction and come up with a plan to bring about more variety.
I agree on the point about meta perks.
They don't realize that the main issue limiting the survivor perk meta is that the meta perks are too strong to where it blows out the competition. In order to change their meta they released boons that are at least as good as their current meta...which as I stated is already too strong. To change the survivor meta they need to dial back the extreme outliers to make other perks seem better. The survivor meta is less an issue of perks not being good enough and more an issue of certain perks being too good. This is not me saying there aren't a metric ton of survivor perks that could use buffs, there are.
Killer meta is a different issue. They don't have meta perks that are too strong blowing out the others from being used. Their other perks are simply just flat out bad. For killers it is an issue of all the other perks needing to be brought up. The other issue with the killers is that many of their perks are basically auto locked if they want a chance at competing.
Both sides have at least 75% of their perks that need buffing but the sides metas are suffering from different things.
They also actively kill synergy with perks/killers every time there's potentially something new forcing everyone back into the same meta. Bar a couple exceptions, the best perks on nearly every killer is the same. That's bad design.
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Overcome is quite good, we'll see it a lot.
Skill check perk is just bad. It's for new players I guess.
Boon Unbreakable I think people are underestimating. If boons weren't as strong as they currently are or CoH wasn't meta then I might agree it's niche. However, people are already running CoH and killers generally speaking already don't snuff boons as you can't afford to waste the time. This means there's no cost to placing it since you are already going to anyway for CoH and the likelyhood of it being up and someone in it is much greater. Saying the killer will just go find the boon and snuff it out after downing someone is a bit disingenuous as that time is enough to pick up the downed survivor anyway. I don't think it will be meta, but it will be extremely annoying and strong in a swf group.
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You don't.
You counter healing by committing to chases, but most killers aren't able to commit to chases. Lose/Lose.
A lot of killers were gutted from boon totems, Hag included.
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@LiunUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2661737#Comment_2661737
that's basically what I said but with my idea after you snuff the totem survivors have to spend 14 seconds cleansing a totem then several seconds moving to another and then 14 seconds lighting the boon so around 35-45 seconds.
if you just destroyed the totem they will at most spend 20-25 seconds just finding and lighting another totem
"if you just destroyed the totem they will at most spend 20-25 seconds just finding and lighting another totem"
That seems balanced enough.
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@ThanosPAWG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2661737#Comment_2661737
But wouldn't that be a direct nerf to NOED because it isn't hard to find and break all five totems and with what you are suggesting would make NOED much weaker.
It would be a nerf to NOED.
However NOED is a badly designed perk in the first place. Less NOED is a good thing.
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Snuffing a boon breaks the totem. Boom. Problem solved.
Keeps them strong but on a limited resource.
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You slow down the game and keep healing. She only wins through snow balling.
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-Remove the cooldown
-Make Hemorrhage not completely worthless
Decent-ish now.
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Probably good for newer players, but it kills off their older player base.
Is it better for newer players than the old system though? Doesn't seem like it.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660949#Comment_2660949
That scapegoat theory sounds like bunk honestly. The devs nerf killer perks they perceive to be overpowered all the time, they don’t leave them in the game to somehow artificially inflate kill rates.
Moreover I’ve never seen actual data indicating NOED inflates kill rates overall compared to other good perks, just a lot of speculation about how good or bad it is. Has anybody actually tracked results of randomly sampled games on kill rates in games with NOED versus games without it? If so it’s be an interesting read.
On a tangent I’ve had good results with Haunted Ground but that’s just me. It rarely doesn’t go off early in the match because survivors are hyper aware of removing hexes nowadays. And since it goes off early in the match it normally happens within a time frame I am already chasing a healthy survivor. So while I don’t know how good or bad it is overall I doubt it’s as bad as you seem to think. 🤷♂️
"That scapegoat theory sounds like bunk honestly. The devs nerf killer perks they perceive to be overpowered all the time, they don’t leave them in the game to somehow artificially inflate kill rates."
You'll notice most those perks that were nerfed are perks that required some semblance of skill to use. NOED helps low tier players especially without a skill requirement which is where most their balancing is focused towards.
"Moreover I’ve never seen actual data indicating NOED inflates kill rates overall compared to other good perks"
We've never seen this data period, much less NOED specifically, so that's kinda irrelevant.
"Has anybody actually tracked results of randomly sampled games on kill rates in games with NOED versus games without it? If so it’s be an interesting read."
We have no data on things like this for any perks. That's why I'd like to see a NOED free weekend to see the data change as well.
We can call this speculation all you want but that's basically all we have. I also value my speculation quite high as I'm using a rather large sample size with my hours in game nearing 8k.
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Killer role? No
High MMR killer role? Yes
I'd say most people disagreeing are having easier games as killer and "think" they're playing at high MMR when they're not.
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We can say the main issue is balance and not MMR itself all we want, but the reality of it is are the devs going to actually balance the game to make MMR function at the top end? The answer is obviously no. Even if they wanted to, at their change pace it would take them literally years to get to that point with how many balance changes are needed. If the game isn't getting balanced properly anytime soon, that leaves MMR as what's left to change.
This also ignores the fact that the issue isn't just balance, it's the actual enjoyment and sweat required at that MMR degrading the fun as well.
I also do think MMR itself is an issue anyway. Anyone with even a decent amount of time in the game can tell you that using just kills/surviving + match time is a terrible metric to rank "skill" by. Just as in the same way balancing around kills is a terrible metric.
MMR as a system is for competitive games. DBD is currently too unbalanced to be competitive. The game is in an identity crisis. It's half trying to be competitive and half trying to be a party game. It needs direction.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2660433#Comment_2660433
I’m a bit skeptical NOED significantly improves kill rates more than other good perks. It can get one or maybe two downs at the end of the match that you might not get without it, but for instance Haunted Grounds gets you one or two downs early in the match and early downs can snowball into a 3v1 before the gens are completed which significantly increases the chances of a 3-4k. And running NOED means you have an unused perk slot for the first 80% of the match or so.
If NOED actually statistically overperformed in terms of kill rates it probably would have been nerfed a long time ago given how long it’s been around and how many people complain about it.
Haunted Grounds is actually quite a bad perk. Only 60 seconds of 1 hit downs that you do not control when it happens or even if it happens at all. Extremely overrated perk.
Especially now that we're in a boon meta noed is almost always guaranteed to activate. At any given time, especially near end game, you will generally always have someone on a hook or about to be on a hook. Those couple downs from NOED turns that 1 hook at end game into 2 quite easily and that's at bare minimum depending on the map rng of totem spawns. You can quite easily turn a 1k into a 4k solely from noed alone.
Also while I do think comp games are a joke in a game that's this unbalanced, they are very good players. Go watch their matches and you'll see the killers always running NOED. If you had any doubt about it being a good perk, that should alleviate it. There's a reason they do.
"If NOED actually statistically overperformed in terms of kill rates it probably would have been nerfed a long time ago given how long it’s been around and how many people complain about it."
Actually no, they wouldn't.
It's kept in that state because it artificially increases the kill rate statistics to higher levels as a scapegoat to justify the balance changes they make towards keeping the game skewed towards the very average casual survivor. IE we point out how unbalanced the game is and they go, "no look at the data killers are actually much better than you think". Now they do not overtly tell you what conclusions to draw from said data as I was slightly hyperbolic there. They tell you not to draw conclusions from it because they themselves know how flawed that data is from multiple things, noed being one of them.
Many killers kills come from entirely NOED as well at lower tiers and removing that would make many of them quit the game.
Like I said earlier, I am not saying noed is op whatsoever, it's not. I'm just saying it is good if you care about winning and is unhealthy design for the game.
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OP? No
Unhealthy for the game? Yes
Overrated? No.
NOED on average will single handedly net you significantly more kills than you would have got other wise. Not because you did anything skillful, but simply because the survivors were lazy.
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The old system was way better in my opinion.
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As others have pointed out, you're innately going to have more friendly people on the forums as anything even remotely offensive said will get you banned. So we aren't necessarily friendlier, just simply our speech is controlled. Heck even the downvote button was removed...lol.
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Red Forest fair? What? Unless you're on certain killers that's already nearly an auto loss unless the survivors are just terrible.
I also don't think I'd call Midwhich killer sided.
I'd call about 5% of the maps killer sided, 15% fair and 80% survivor sided roughly.
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High MMR is pretty dreadful. You don't implement MMR on a game that isn't competitively balanced, it's counter intuitive. Hopefully we get a solution soon(tm).
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Honestly lots.
They have tons of completely unnecessary cooldowns on perks that don't need them.
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Most everyone that plays the game at a high level will till you the game is very unbalanced.
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Glad someone else is annoyed by it, drives me crazy. It's super obnoxiously loud.
Not to mention it makes it very difficult to actually here anything else, it drowns out other sounds. Really needs to be turned down.
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-After hooking someone in the basement you have Undetectable while greater than 32m away until that person is unhooked.
Now it rewards basement hooks but doesn't reward camping.
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@Mazoobi said:
His first released state was honestly a unique power and it kinda just sucked that it naturally had issues, to drag along with it.
I wished the devs were able to keep that original state, but just tweaked it with healthier changes for both sides. The reworks for him just make him similar to other killers, but with a "dream-world" which is just for aesthetics if anything...
Yeah this.
His original form was salvageable with tweaks and it was extremely unique.
Now he's just a weak copy/paste of other killers abilities and stripped of anything really that unique. A dreamworld that is nothing but cosmetic in nature basically sums up how sad it is.
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Extremely overrated. Rarely have I ever had a match where NWO actually made any significant difference on the game. I even watched the videos youtubers made as examples of how strong it supposedly is and it did nearly nothing in those videos. So many much placebo effect going on.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2652773#Comment_2652773
Getting 4ks on low mmr survivors kind of defeats the purpose of deranking.
Well that's their point in deranking, to 4k.
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It punishes bad survivors pretty heavily but is pretty terrible if you're against actually decent survivors.
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When you make most killers unviable at high mmr that's what happens.
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@HollowsGrief said:
They just need to stop pretending this isn't a thing. Give the game generic voice coms, give people the option to opt out of using it and then balance the game around coms.
Probably the best solution honestly.
Seeing as it's completely optional and you can choose to have it off the possible "toxic" people shouldn't really be an issue.
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@ShadowNurseZFX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2649881#Comment_2649881
buff killers and give them the correct tools to kill survivors. make survivors oblivious when doing generators (embraces more of a horror feel).
the real problem is that SWF have unreal communication. and survivors in general have so many options. slugging? boon exponential. unbreakable, WGLF. Camping? do all gens and let them have the kill. Proxy? do gens far from the killer. run kindred. use BT if u wanna be altruistic. killer made a good play? dead hard, or just take the hit and use overcome. and use dead hard at a later time. if they remove/nerf some of these options it would be fine. also nerf flashlights, if your not looking at the killer you cant get the beamer save. also, make it so flashlights do not remove hag traps or the artist's crows. Powers should not be voided by flashlights.
I agree with your general point.
Oblivious while on gens doesn't make any sense though and would require a whole slew of reworks to other killers.
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That is indeed very odd.
The only reasonable thing I can think of that would cause that would be killers intentionally deranking. Surprised they'd even be able to derank that low though.
That's also definitely going to be skewing any hypothetical data/statistics we're given any time soon since mmr release.
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Unfortunately not.
I wish they'd make lightweight silence your footsteps, would be useful.
Conversely Predator increase running and walking footstep sounds.
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That's what happens when killers are made into piñatas.
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Dang that's tough, there's just so many terrible ones.
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Boon totems are extremely unhealthy design in their current state.
Anyone with even a decent amount of game time could have glanced at boon totems and realized they were a bad idea very quickly.
Killers simply do not have time to deal with multiple extra objectives. They literally don't even have time for their current objectives rofl.
Just shows an extreme disconnect to me. We ask for extra mandatory objectives on survivor side to give them more to do and slow them down on gens and instead we get extra objectives for killers...lol
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2652012#Comment_2652012
I agree with this.
But in general, no, they shouldn’t be removed - map offerings are not the problem, maps not being balanced is the problem.
Exactly.
The issue isn't offerings, it's maps that are extremely unbalanced that are the issue at the core of it.