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Blueberry
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881331#Comment_881331
I just have to ask. What's the downside to BBQ, Pop Goes the Weasel, Make Your Choice, Dying Light(You could argue the downside is the obsession can heal better, and isn't affected, but the healing better barely comes into play, and not being affected isn't a downside, it's just not an upside), Spirit Fury + Enduring, Franklin's Demise(You can literally ignore a survivor offering with this), Haunted Grounds(I mean it's not perfect, but there's literally no downside to it and it's a free tier 3 Myers on any killer), etc?
I didn't say that all of them have all of those qualities. I said that most have most of those qualities. For example BBQ doesn't have a downside but it has extremely easy counter play that doesn't require perks or items. Also, Dying Light healing bonus is MUCH more influential than you give it credit for.
Spirit Fury + Enduring is easily countered by literally just dropping pallets earlier like you would against Clown. Franklins you just pick the items back up, this perk isn't even worth running. Lastly, what do you mean Haunted Ground doesn't have a downside, you literally just don't cleanse it and it could never even activate for the whole game. Not to mention even if it does you can just hide out its duration. You also have zero control over when it activates if it even does.
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The problem is you won't get a lot of constructive comments as a lot of people here won't agree with your base premise, "The game is survivor sided" to begin with. I do agree with you though.
Most the top tier survivor perks are just all universally good in almost all scenarios, have very little reasonable drawbacks/counterplay, ask very little of them to work and are game swinging in their effect. This is the polar opposite of killer perks as almost all of them have heavy downsides, requirements/heavily niche and/or counter play.
The solution seems pretty straight forward to me. Add those things to the perks.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878744#Comment_878744
Nearly 60 up votes at the time of my comment. I guess all 60 are in on the joke.
Or it's an indication of how out of touch you are with the realities of the game. 🤷♀️
Or someone doesn't actually understand the player base and realizes that the majority of the games population is at low ranks where you don't actually see what the games balance truly is.
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He's just decent on most maps, but very strong on the indoors maps.
In 95% of the cases his stalking is a complete waste.
I'd think of him around top 5.
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These sound like good changes I'll up vote but his portals aren't his real issue hindering him, it's his shred.
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I'm all for removing dodging, but only after they actually balance their game properly which is why dodging is happening in the first place.
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Wait this isn't bait..you actually are saying BT needs a buff? You're serious?
BT is literally one of the top 3 best perks in the game and if anything it needs nerfs. It rewards bad plays and is unhealthy for the game. It is so highly abused.
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@Eleghost said:
why do you want individual killer ranks? so you can bully people not at whatever rank you're at? Doing that would cause more problems than it's worth. A total rank rework will be helpful when they announce the plans here shortly. It was on the roadmap but some people are bad about finding info as devs are with delays.
Because then when you see someones rank you know that they actually got there using only that killer. Also it would allow more play on less viable killers as they all wouldn't be ranked up at the same time how we get back to rank 1 within a day or 2 currently.
"It was on the roadmap but some people are bad about finding info as devs are with delays."
That isn't what we are referring to at all actually.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878700#Comment_878700
lmao it'd be nice to try and get to legions rank 1
I think it's pretty easy to get any killer to rank 1. The more challenge is consistently staying there and having good games. Similar to the archive I like that it would give more objectives.
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I hope that along with the emblem changes we also get individual killer ranks finally. Been waiting on that for ages.
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@rd_dex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878645#Comment_878645
I've seen certain youtubers complain how he is "OP" already, so there is no way Oni gets any buff he either gets released as is or he gets nerfed.
"I've seen certain youtubers complain how he is "OP" already"
That is zero evidence that he needs a nerf at all.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878089#Comment_878089
Im trying to see it from both sides. I typically suck at chases, so avoiding them all out or juking the killer ASAP once found is typically what I go for (ironwill is awesome...). Typically it just comes down to breaking line of sight and walking away to not leave scratch marks. Sometimes it works...sometimes it doesn't. Its about 50-50 whenever I get into a decent spot to attempt it on whether it works on not. At the same time though, I dont want EVERY map to be like coldwind farm with the corn where the "Stealth" for the game is simply a matter of the killer cant see #########.
I'm thinking of a situation different than Coldwind, those maps are pretty awful. At rank 1 a juke to literally lose the killer without him voluntarilly giving up the chase is 9 times out of 10 not happening. I'd like that changed.
I'd like lessoned reliance on pallets and windows so that we can add more debris/fog/darkness/plants/grass to make jukes mid chase. This would actually be more skill reliant. I'm imagining a meta where Bloodhound would actually be a perk worth considering and not a joke. With extra ways to escape we could then lower the amount/strength of windows and pallets.
With less emphasis on pallets and windows you'd see a large shift in killer rankings simply because we'd be changing what determines whether a killer is strong. Right now it's basically do you counter pallet looping, yes or no. Yes? Okay viable. No? Weak
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878065#Comment_878065
There gets to be a point though that its not fun playing hide and seek when your screen is near black, the fog so thick you cant see 2 ft infront of you and everyone picked claudette.
That was an issue with darkness offerings which were removed already and with claudettes color pallet in her design, not with the map ambiance imo.
If Claudette was fixed I wouldn't see an issue. The game doesn't need to be a hide and seek game but I'd like stealth for jukes mid chase to at least be more viable than they currently are.
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In trying to better optimize the game for people with worse computers they heavily downgraded and killed whatever atmosphere there used to be.
The darkness, fog, atmosphere and ambience needs to be increased massively. It currently feels like you're playing in the middle of the day.
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Seriously, as if it wasn't already bad enough even without a cooldown. I don't know why they feel the need to continuously throw cooldowns on already bad perks. The fact that they think Blood Echo needs a cooldown but that Borrowed Time shouldn't is just boggling to the mind.
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873990#Comment_873990
What conclusion did I come to? Where in my paragraph did I state anything as definitive or conclusive?
Literally my paragraph could be summarized to say "People need to stop complaining about only 3 killers being viable. Kill rates are high across the board. People need to improve because there are others out there doing just fine with all killers."
"So with the release of the most recent stats (I know, i know. Taken with a grain of salt), can we stop all the crap about there only being 3 viable killers in the game?"
"And while the stats don't show everything that goes into a match (items, add ons, moris, dumb decision making), it DOES show that all killers CAN perform well at the high levels."
^ All the conclusions you are drawing.
"Literally my paragraph could be summarized to say "People need to stop complaining about only 3 killers being viable. Kill rates are high across the board. People need to improve because there are others out there doing just fine with all killers.""
You literally just posted your conclusions you drew from the stats after saying you didn't draw any conclusions. You are saying people are wrong about certain killer viability based on the stats, that is a conclusion. You are implying they're incorrect based on the stats
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"So with the release of the most recent stats (I know, i know. Taken with a grain of salt), can we stop all the crap about there only being 3 viable killers in the game?"
You literally just contradicted your entire post. I know these stats aren't completely valid but now I'm going to make a conclusion based on them being valid.
"And while the stats don't show everything that goes into a match (items, add ons, moris, dumb decision making), it DOES show that all killers CAN perform well at the high levels."
No, it does not. As you have even said yourself ad nauseum, there a many, many factors not being taken into account for these stats that skew them heavily.
The devs have stated repeatedly, do not use these stats for drawing conclusions as they are heavily flawed, exactly as you are doing now, along with the other 100 posts made on the forums exactly like yours.
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@Monlyth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873284#Comment_873284
There's a difference between drawing conclusions based on data, and using statistical data as evidence to back an argument.
Or, if we're not even supposed to do that, then what was the point of releasing this data at all? To justify the paycheck of some intern at BHVR?
There is a difference and they said not to do either one.
I agree with your point about there not being a reason to release statistics if they are that flawed in the first place. All that does is mislead people.
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They really need to increase their team size. I know they've grown a lot but the reason they can't do things like you mentioned or make changes as fast as they should is because of that size. All changes just take them so, so long.
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@Wuhelm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873284#Comment_873284
Yet those numbers is how they determine over-performers.
Actually they stated that those stats are only one of the determinants they use among many others combined.
Not saying to what degree I believe it or not, just what they said.
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873303#Comment_873303
You're coming to the conclusion that the data is flawed based on your own anecdotal evidence. I'm not going to put words in "penits" mouth, but the raw data shows that the kill ratio would make the game killer sided. When I think "killer sided", I think "how many kills on average did the killer have". You can say "well that doesn't mean everything. Maybe such and such a perk is broken", but that still doesn't fundamentally change the reality that the kill rate for most killers is above 70 percent. This data also does not include DC's, so this is data based on tens of thousands of games most likely.
If you're reading research and you see that there is a patient mortality rate of around 75 percent at the four year mark, you could research why that ratio is so high, but it doesn't fundamentally change that there is still a mortality rate of 75 percent at four years. The only thing that could fundamentally change something like that is potential intervention .
Survivors have gotten mostly meme perks over the last 16 months with constant nerfs. I don't know how you could think 16 months ago when the kill ratio was above 50 percent, that constant nerfs to survivor and buffs to killers wouldn't increase the kill rate.
"You're coming to the conclusion that the data is flawed based on your own anecdotal evidence."
I am basing that on literal quotation from a mod as well...
"So just to reiterate one last time, I really would not recommend drawing any conclusions from these stats. These are averages, not specific and incredibly detailed data that you should draw any conclusions from." -Peanits
The data having flaws to where we shouldn't be solely using it for balance judgements is not my opinion, it is from BHVR.
"When I think "killer sided", I think "how many kills on average did the killer have"."
As I have said, there are many factors influencing this that are not taken into account. "Kills" are also not the sole determinant of balance in DBD as well.
"This data also does not include DC's, so this is data based on tens of thousands of games most likely."
This is a complete an utter throw in the wind with no evidence of it. We cannot use random guesses for making balance judgements.
"If you're reading research and you see that there is a patient mortality rate of around 75 percent at the four year mark, you could research why that ratio is so high, but it doesn't fundamentally change that there is still a mortality rate of 75 percent at four years."
You cannot use mortality rate as an accurate comparison as that is indeed the end all be all. Kill rates however, are not the sole determinant of balance and that is what you are solely using to draw your conclusions.
"Survivors have gotten mostly meme perks over the last 16 months"
They've actually had quite a few decent perks. Most havn't replaced the meta because their current meta perks are way too strong to where they simply overshadow everything else.
"with constant nerfs"
I'm not sure how long you've been here but survivors were insanely OP in the past years ago. These nerfs have been completely justified and trying to slowly bring the game into better balance.
"I don't know how you could think 16 months ago when the kill ratio was above 50 percent, that constant nerfs to survivor and buffs to killers wouldn't increase the kill rate."
Who would think that? I sure don't and haven't said anything of the sort.
The killers needed those buffs and survivors needed those nerfs. You are also ignoring alll the survivor buffs and killer nerfs in that time as well.
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873284#Comment_873284
You're absolutely right. That's right nowhere in my argument did I say "these statistics are everything". I did make an argument how many perks for survivor are trash tier, progress bar simulator doesn't need to be increase, and how freddy's fake pallets are a terrible mechanic and need to be removed.
But when it comes to raw data and kill rates, you can't in good faith say that this game is survivor sided. How do you even make an argument that the game is survivor sided when there is a kill rate of 75 percent in game? If you're going to make that argument, then you have to somehow make that argument not using escape/kill ratio.
"That's right nowhere in my argument did I say "these statistics are everything""
I never said that you said it was everything. You are however drawing conclusions based on that data which is what they said not to do.
"I did make an argument how many perks for survivor are trash tier,"
The same thing can be said for killer perks
"But when it comes to raw data and kill rates, you can't in good faith say that this game is survivor sided"
I'm basing my opinion on many, many hours of rank 1 game play on both sides. That is all we have to go on with how flawed the data we do have is.
"How do you even make an argument that the game is survivor sided when there is a kill rate of 75 percent in game?"
This is drawing conclusions from data that is not taking a multitude of factors into account as the devs have said and it shouldn't be taken at face value as you are.
"If you're going to make that argument, then you have to somehow make that argument not using escape/kill ratio."
As the data cannot be used for determining balance alone, all we have to go on is experience. This is why I base my opinions off heavy experience at the highest rank of play as that is as close as you are going to get.
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"Please keep in mind that numbers are not everything; there are a whole bunch of factors that could influence these numbers."
The devs themselves stated that you should not be drawing conclusions exactly like you are based on the data as it does not take into account a multitude of factors.
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@Karl_Childers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872922#Comment_872922
If you view an unhook tunneling killer as the victim at any point, there’s nothing left to say as we are worlds apart on our stance. Agree to disagree. DS should stay as is then, no way in hell should it just be nerfed 20 seconds without something being given back.
The perk is already S+ tier and probably the best perk in the game and you think it would need compensation? I think if you'd play more killer at high ranks you'd understand what I'm saying.
This conversation isn't about who is the "victim" it's about balancing the game. 1 survivor getting tunneled in exchange for all the other survivors escaping is a big loss for the killer. That isn't a subjective thing, it is objective. 1 kill and 3 escape is by the devs balance standards a loss for the killer. Also in the scenario we are describing that is a depip.
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That's why I don't like BT. It encourages bad plays.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/868657#Comment_868657
I think Fungoose might disagree with you there. :)
Just in relation to Fungoose, if you watch his streams regularly as I do he makes it very clear that survivors are indeed and by far the power role in this game. Just because he does well with killers doesn't mean killers are strong. He makes that point very clear.
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@Karl_Childers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872849#Comment_872849
I just don’t subscribe at all to the theory that the killer has been punished enough, in my scenario this killer doesn’t become the victim in 40 seconds. They made the choice to tunnel the unhooked survivor, that’s their problem and should still get hit no matter how long it goes on. Also a timer of only 40 seconds is certainly going to mean less people running it, which is another win for tunneling.
I understand the scenario you’re saying, but if you just make it no timer and deactivates upon hooking someone else, I think it solves the issues of both sides. By far the biggest complaint about DS is “I hooked someone else, ran into the previous guy, and got hit with DS”. That’s fixed. Every killer will know once they throw someone on the hook, find someone else or risk DS. Simple. No timer helps address survivor complaints of being tunneled but not being able to use it. Sounds fair to me.
"I just don’t subscribe at all to the theory that the killer has been punished enough,"
Losing the game isn't punishment enough?
"in my scenario this killer doesn’t become the victim in 40 seconds. They made the choice to tunnel the unhooked survivor, that’s their problem and should still get hit no matter how long it goes on."
In 40 seconds the killer is the victim. 40 seconds is an entire gen and a half assuming no other gen speed up perks or items. That is a lot of the survivor objective completed for a single digit percent of the killers. Their punishment is gens being done.
"I understand the scenario you’re saying, but if you just make it no timer and deactivates upon hooking someone else, I think it solves the issues of both sides."
It doesn't. With no timer the scenario I described will happen even more and it's already an issue at 60 seconds.
"No timer helps address survivor complaints of being tunneled but not being able to use it."
That literally almost never happens and if it did, as I've said that already cost the killer the entire game even WITHOUT having DS, literally just the chase time. The only time they are getting that timer ran out and being tunneled is by being slugged and there are multiple anti-slug perks as well as slugging being extremely risky for the killer in the first place.
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You're very mistaken about a lot of the games balance currently. Much less to leave over those misunderstandings.
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They've said Doctor was next and I heard they have changes to Legion coming as well.
They also mentioned they wanted to tackle the chainsaw killers after that.
I honestly think the Pig needs some changes as well and I'd rather her get those small tweaks before the chainsaws.
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@Karl_Childers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872705#Comment_872705
40 seconds is too short. Let’s use the most common example of tunneling, which is a proxy camper who returns to the hook when the survivor gets rescued. Maybe this survivor doesn’t go down instantly, but reaches a pallet and stays up for 25-30 seconds before going down. You would say it’s ok that the tunneling killer now only has to wait a mere 10 seconds to just pick them up? No. I’m fine with it deactivating upon hooking someone else, but only with the tradeoff of no timer. Otherwise, it should stay exactly as it is.
If he really spent 40 seconds for all that it's already cost him all map pressure and he lost at least a gen or more. 40 seconds might not be "saving" the survivor but it's costing the killer the game to do so.
The reason I wanted the timer reduction added is because there are many times that you will just happen to run into the same survivor twice in a row before the windows of DS has ended. That isn't tunneling but you are still punished. With how much pressure the killer has to keep up he can't afford to just find a survivor and then decide to let them go.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872719#Comment_872719
If there is lets say 50 potential totem spots and i dont see any totems while i go around the map. I will not destroy any of them, because i would waste 4 minutes just by looking for one (which wouldnt have to be lit)
I think 4 minutes is quite a stretch and there are also 4 of you, not just 1 looking.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872654#Comment_872654
Noed is not fair, really. You can't expect a solo Q team to cleanse every totem each game, and if there's tons of pressure there really won't even be time to do them.
It encourages camping because it's a borderline guaranteed kill late-game. No other perk in the game lets you go from being whooped to having a 2-3 man slug handed to you on a platter.
You are not a bad killer for using noed, but tons of bad killers rely on it. I think it is one of the few crutches killers have.
"You can't expect a solo Q team to cleanse every totem each game"
I do. I don't think that is asking a lot at all.
"It encourages camping because it's a borderline guaranteed kill late-game."
It doesn't encourage camping but the second part I semi agree with. That is why I said it should give a different effect. Did you read my idea about it?
"You are not a bad killer for using noed, but tons of bad killers rely on it. I think it is one of the few crutches killers have."
I think someone is a bad killer if they rely on NOED. I do agree it is one of the few crutches killers have.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872698#Comment_872698
It would only accomplish the goal for the hexes that people know about aka ruin, lullaby, third seal. It would buff devour hope and noed effect of which is hidden until its active.
It would force more of a focus on cleansing totems as the first priority than jumping straight to gens which sounds like a good thing with the games current gen speed issue. If for some reason that became meta there are multiple anti-totem perks to hard counter that.
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Shorten the timer to 40 seconds and deactivate as soon as any survivor is hooked.
I'm fine with an anti-tunnel perk, it's just currently another second chance perk being abused as a 60 second immunity.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872574#Comment_872574
Spawns will never be better, because they are fixed even if you have 10 random locations they are still fixed and once you learn them you know where they are.
They can increase the amount of potential spots and make the spots better hidden and out of the way. Even if they have them memorized that wastes a lot of time checking them all and then it's accomplished its goal anyway.
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I don't think anyone is actually saying it's a bad perk. It's a very strong perk. Most the issue is that it rewards kills for survivors being lazy, not because the killer actually did anything skillful. It ends up giving a lot of undeserved kills and single handedly artificially inflates killer kill rates on statistics for determining balance.
I'd rather it give the killer extra time to make plays or something as a punishment for them being lazy so that it gives killers more opportunities to make skillful plays rather than just handing some free downs to them at the end for nothing.
It's a completely fair and balanced perk, it's just unhealthy and not designed well.
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As others have said, Plague needs buffs, not nerfs. You're going the complete wrong direction here.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872500#Comment_872500
You suggestion didnt have any details. Its like if i said gen should be finished slower than now. Yeah sure its a good idea, but you didnt say how they should be change.
I did and your reaction to it was as if my idea is useless.
If my suggestion didn't have any details and was vague then how did you interpret it as changing half the game? That's contradictory.
My reaction was that your change wasn't addressing the core of the issue, not that it was useless. How totems function is the issue with Ruin and for all the other totem perks. Fixing the totem problem also wouldn't be a lot of work. Better spawn locations, make them much darker so they blend in better and only let the lit totem show to the killer so the survivors don't know which one it is. Fixing Ruin without addressing totems in general leaves ALL the other totem perks still needing adjustments as well.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872491#Comment_872491
We can only suggest bandaids tho... There is no reason to make a post where you change half of the game, because that change has 0.1% chance of being implemented.
The change I suggested is minuscule and not even remotely close to "half the game". My change is a bandaid.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872476#Comment_872476
Your idea isn't bad, it's just players are tired of perks being used to balance the game instead of the developers making base changes.
Through, the developers do have a lot on their plate right now, so I can sympathize for them! 🤗😁
Just wished they gave us more information on how they plan on handling genrush and compensating survivors.
"it's just players are tired of perks being used to balance the game instead of the developers making base changes."
+1 on that. That is what really bothers a lot of players. They keep trying to fix problems in the game by adding a perk or killer instead of addressing the issue itself.
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@Jejune said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872440#Comment_872440
Water makes things wet. Was that any helpful to you? I dont think so.
So why do you think that my idea is bad?
Totems "just" need improvements. I did answer your question and I told you that totem improvements was all that was needed implying your idea is unnecessary. You can keep your sarcastic comments to yourself. Stop trying to make an argument.
Simply asking, "So why do you think that my idea is bad?" is all you needed to type.
Your idea makes it quite similar to Corrupt Intervention as a set time. Improving how totems work would improve its functionality much better as finding and cleansing totems is currently what the issue is.
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Totems just need improvements in how they work.
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Spine Chill. Most people vastly underestimate the information it gives you and pass it off as a "noob" perk.
Decent against all killers and simply hard counters almost all the stealth ones.
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He does have a downside, he's loopable.
His strength is getting a surprise hit which is the entire point of a stealth killer.
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@nick_larking said:
I rather have stats that show amount of hooks before all gens are completed and then amount of hooks after completed gens.
For all we know this kill rate is basicly camp 1guy for 2mins and camp 2nd guy during exit gates. Ye x amount of hooks aint perfect either, but its sure as hell alot better than the current stats imo.
Now that would be eye opening.
2 kills could be multiple hooks and 2 kills could be be 1 hook followed by camping each guy because the killer can't do anything. Not to mention freebie kills gained after gates are power because the survivors were trolling around because they'd already won, or NOED. All of which may effect kills but are not related to how balanced the game is.
There are so many factors that make those kill numbers look way higher than they actually are realistically in terms of determining balance.
While the devs say they don't use them directly because of this, posting them with so many flaws to the forums misleads so much of the player base as to the game actual current balance even if this stipulation was stated. Kinda like "These stats are completely untrue...but here are the stats guys".
Sorry I just further elaborated on what you were saying.
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Yeah, if we're gonna be given data I'd like it to at least have all the nuances pruned.
Also if we could get rank 1 stats and NOT red rank stats that would be wonderful as those will be extremely different numbers. Separate those by system as well as that is skewing numbers also.
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@LordGlint said:
What if there were an alternate method to getting her power other than the pools? Maybe she can gain it passively while chasing a fully sick survivor or something... Seeing Oni with his blood orbs made me think of this, that he gets his not only by injuring ppl but also by the blood orbs. What if plauge's was similar?
Like anytime a survivor vomits in her TR she slowly fills up a bar?
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@Venom368 said:
Plague is one of my top 5 most played killers. I was inspired to learn her by FunGoose and the build he used to get over 100 Plague wins in a row without using any add-ons (Meaning the exit doors were never opened by the survivors in any of the games, i believe).
Her ability to puke on gens either prevents them from being worked on for 35 seconds, or somebody gets sick and you know where they are. Her vomit being a projectile lets you shoot it upwards onto ledges, over walls, etc. which can save a bunch of time or hit survivors who thought they were safe.
Yeah she becomes an insta-down M1 killer if nobody cleanses, but it's so easy to track people because they are so loud. Iron Will doesn't counter the sound of vomiting. I've had many games where Infectious Fright just lets me down everyone at once because nobody cleansed. And then, you can also just bring an apple or 2 as add-ons to have guarantee you can use your corrupt purge.
I have fun practicing and learning the physics with her projectile, and also when the right time to take the corrupt purge is. They could add more of a debuff to survivors to encourage them to cleanse, but I usually have much more successful games when nobody cleanses. In those games it feels just like running Infectious Fright on Billy where it's super easy to snowball.
The conversation is more about making her more fun to play, not about how strong or weak she is.
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@Derp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869276#Comment_869276
Earlier, you said, "The option you presented works as well though and people would actually consider running it", so you still thought it was balanced. Not sure if he's exaggerating or not, but I agree that survivors aren't going to get gen grabbed left and right but it would occur from time to time since the killer using the perk would have no terror radius for almost the entire match so it's bound to happen within a few games if the killer knows what to do which would still be a problem.
Spine Chill doesn't tell you where the killer's coming from so it can still give the killer a free hit every now and then. As for Premonition, it's pretty garbage, and I wouldn't bother bringing it since it works when I already know where the killer is most of the time. I mentioned BT to reinforce my point on how broken this would be. Those two perks prevent getting grabbed but it won't always prevent the m1. Even then, the fact that you have to equip one of those perks to stand a chance is ridiculous. The advantages the killer would have with this 1 perk makes it beyond broken.
He was just mentioning one of the reasons as to why the perk would be overpowered. You still thought the op's suggestion was balanced so I stepped in. If you think this is all about gen grabs, then you missed @Echorion and my point.
""The option you presented works as well though and people would actually consider running it", so you still thought it was balanced."
No...saying an idea works and that people would run it is not the same thing as saying something is balanced.
Something working is not inherently good or bad, it just works. Saying someone would run a perk means it's at least a decent perk, it does not say HOW good, whether that be too good or barely good.
"the killer using the perk would have no terror radius for almost the entire match"
No, the survivor would only have Oblivious when on a gen at a specific percentage interval.
"Spine Chill doesn't tell you where the killer's coming from so it can still give the killer a free hit every now and then."
That doesn't stop it from working the majority of the time. It is a highly underrated perk.
I personally think it's much better than Premonition but they are both at the very least viable perks with Spine Chill not far from meta.
"I mentioned BT to reinforce my point on how broken this would be"
I think you are confusing Oblivious with Undetectable. We are talking about Oblivious as that is what would be affecting survivors with this perk. This would not bring BT into what we are talking about.
"Even then, the fact that you have to equip one of those perks to stand a chance is ridiculous."
You don't have to, it's just a hard counter if you did.
"You still thought the op's suggestion was balanced so I stepped in"
That isn't what was said at all. You misinterpreted what I was saying.
"If you think this is all about gen grabs, then you missed @Echorion and my point."
This is another misinterpretation. I never said it was all about gen grabs.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869397#Comment_869397
Those are good points, but you also risk not even getting hooked once and dying from slugging.
I definitely think we could have more slug orientated killers, that would be interesting.
If I die to slugging I would've already been dead to a hook minutes ago so it just gave me more of a chance at living.