Blueberry
Blueberry
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869386#Comment_869386
I really wanted the gen being completed and giving you a power up to be basekit but then we'll just get another Pig counter and 8 99% gens.
I think the best and healthiest change is to make Black Incense basekit or do a passive movement decrease up to like ~10%? To make it noticeable but not completely screw you over until you've waited a long time.
No one at high ranks actually 99%'s gens though since her traps aren't threatening enough to care. Even if they did that strat can be punished pretty hard by PGTW. Regardless, any of those ideas I'd be cool with though. If we did the slow down one 10% sounded like a good number to me as well.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869364#Comment_869364
From a survivor perspective, I totally see and hate being slugged myself. Especially when the killer isn't really that good and my teammates are being potatoes and not capitalizing on the slug plays.
You're on the ground until you die crawling slowly with music that isn't really great to listen to for 4 minutes, and you're not doing anything unless you brought specific perks. In this sense though I think it's actually decent game design because you can choose to take the perks that completely counter the playstyle if you really don't want to deal with it, or risk being slugged.
From a killer perspective I don't think it's really all the great outside of niche builds since you risk wasting a chase if they pick someone up while you're away.
But as a whole, currently slugging seems to me to be ok. It's got a good risk:reward ratio.
Yeah as you've said, it's a very high risk vs reward play and can be very punishing if the survivors work through it. Also as you've said, many perks to counter it as well.
I don't really see a difference between me sitting on the ground or on a hook. At least on the ground I don't have to spam a button, it isn't counting as one of my hooks AND I have the chance to crawl away to safety or under a pallet for a slam. I'd rather them slug me.
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@Bradyguy99 said:
I should of made this a discussion.... my bad. So how would you guys fix her? (Or should that be different discussion....) because personally I think sick survivors should have a bigger penalty for being sick to make them want to cure themselves. Something that's not too powerful but something which is like ya I need to get better. Maybe a speed debuff to make them slower meaning chases are harder.
That's basically what most people have recommended. Not something extreme but maybe like a 10% gen debuff if fully sick/broken.
We've mentioned making the survivor pause for the vomit animation in place. This would keep pausing their gen work and also making looping while sick/broken much more dangerous.
Then we also considered making Black Incense base kit which would also make staying sick more dangerous since she'd get periodic pings where you were.
Heck they could even do Iridescent Seal base kit to make it more dangerous.
Obviously we don't mean for all of these, it could literally just be one of them only but these were some of the ideas people have passed around.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869344#Comment_869344
Restrictive and clunky..🤔 that sounds about what they're going for. Just look at janky Nurse.
Well I hope that's the case.
I personally like that slugging exists as it offers different play styles and this comes from playiing as survivor as well. I don't get peoples irrational hate for slugging.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869310#Comment_869310
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869298#Comment_869298
I think you guys are missing the point. It was a design choice to turn off and drain his power when picking someone up. They want to encourage slugging and getting survivors off gens to pick up downed ones while someone else is chased.
At least I think that's what they're going for. These are also the people who thought long and hard about changes for Nurse and came out with a complete and utter dud so who knows anymore.
I'm not missing it, I just can't see them ever conciously wanting to encourage slugging as so far in the games existence they have done nothing but nerf and discourage slugging. I think the slug factor is actually unintended and they actually thought people would down 1 survivor, pick them up, cancel and repeat. I don't believe they foresaw the play style he is currently using. If they did that quite contradicts all their previous balancing up to this point in regards to slugging.
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She's low on the play rate because she essentially doesn't get to ever use her power. Survivors just stay injured all game and you never get a corrupt pool.
We're not even talking about how powerful she is or isn't here, simply that you are now just playing an M1 killer with no power essentially. Walking around pressing M1 and nothing else isn't fun.
She needs changes that encourage cleansing to allow her to use her power.
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Remove the slow down on blood orb pickup and remove the directional sound he has. Picking up a survivor also shouldn't drain his power, it's already costing him duration on it for the pick up.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869212#Comment_869212
Glad someone here understands this.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869179#Comment_869179
If you play red ranks you should know how dangerous oblivious can be. Killers know how to use it, they don't give you the reaction time because they don't just let you see them to begin with.
If you think one perk should do literally everything, and think that's fair, honestly I don't know what to tell you other than you are very mistaken. Keeping in mind that is just one aspect of the proposed perk, look at everything else it would supposedly do too on top of it.
No one ever said Oblivious wasn't dangerous.
"If you think one perk should do literally everything"
That isn't what is does, that's not what I think and that's not what I said.
You are drawing incorrect conclusions on misinterpretations.
"Keeping in mind that is just one aspect of the proposed perk, look at everything else it would supposedly do too on top of it."
That changed version we are referencing did not have anything else in addition to it.
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@Derp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869179#Comment_869179
The op suggested the oblivious works anytime the survivors perform any action so it would trigger everytime. Oblivious counters any aura reading perks and BT on the killer so I'm curious to know what those counters are.
Having played against GF a lot in red ranks and getting hit when he's in stealth says otherwise. You're seriously undermining the effect of oblivious because "everyone has a pair of eyes". Stealth killers aren't stupid enough to just run in the open and reveal their locations to everybody. They'll hide around corners, walls, bushes, rocks, anything that'll keep them hidden. It's a lot easier to do this when survivors are working on a gen in a shack, building, behind walls, and especially indoor maps.
"The op suggested the oblivious works anytime the survivors perform any action so it would trigger everytime."
I was responding to someone who had commented on my similar suggestion that included a progression limitation, not OP's.
"Oblivious counters any aura reading perks and BT on the killer so I'm curious to know what those counters are."
I wasn't referring to aura reading perks at all. I was referring to things like Spine Chill and Premonition. BT also doesn't really have anything to do with what were talking about since we are referencing Oblivious on gens, not how strong Undetectable is on a killer.
"Having played against GF a lot in red ranks and getting hit when he's in stealth says otherwise."
We were referencing grabs more than hits and grabs are extremely rare. Also, unless the survivor is refusing to heal and just gen rushing an initial hit isn't really an issue.
"Stealth killers aren't stupid enough to just run in the open and reveal their locations to everybody. They'll hide around corners, walls, bushes, rocks, anything that'll keep them hidden."
That's true, but it's also true that using that technique costs a lot more time in a gen rush meta which is the reason you don't see it used much. Yeah they aren't gonna walk through the open field but they also aren't gonna go all the way around to come from behind you in a corner for most cases. This leaves them quite able to be seen and prevent a grab.
"It's a lot easier to do this when survivors are working on a gen in a shack, building, behind walls, and especially indoor maps."
Luckily shack is already one of the most safe spots on the maps to be and the amount of indoor maps is much lower than outdoor ones. A situational benefit.
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The devs keep chopping the top tier killers down so people are just naturally moving down the list.
Ghostface is what the other stealth killers should have been and never made it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869079#Comment_869079
That and marking survivors is literally his entire ability and kit, which could now be mostly done with a perk that would also be doing tons of OTHER stuff on top of it, on top of all the other killers abilities using that perk. That's insane.
Sorry if you want to believe that it would be fair, all the power to you, but you are not going to convince me otherwise- as much as I love the idea of being able to get a guaranteed free hit or gen grab almost constantly at almost no cost.
It includes gen progression limitations on the perk, it isn't at all times. Also, the entire perk is completely hard countered by other survivor perks as well if eyes aren't enough.
It's only a free hit or grab if you're playing at low ranks where no one even knows how to play the game yet. At rank 1 that is not the case. All power to you if you want to believe it would be too strong but that's not the case.
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Yes please, it needs this buff.
So does Remember Me for that matter.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/868986#Comment_868986
because it almost never happens right now, if it happened pretty much every-time you WOULD get grabbed off gens, eyes won't help you because you won't have the reaction time if they approach on certain gen spots.
You actually are dealing with Undetectable quite a lot currently with Ghostface being in the top few most played killers and it not being an issue at all.
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@HealsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867749#Comment_867749
Blood Echo has potential- imagine using this on a Plague or Legion. Now combo it with some other perks (Nurses or BBQ for auras, Bloodhound for tracking, etc.) and it can be lethal.
It may not be good on its own, but its great when combo'd correctly, and far from trash.
Even combined with those other perks that doesn't make Blood Echo very much more lethal at all. Tracking is almost never an issue in this game, especially on Plague of all killers. What killer in their right mind would even look at Bloodhound...seriously, were not talking about a rank 20 game. Bloodhound is garbage. By the time you even get to them with BBQ or Nurses you've already got less than 30 seconds remaining in the best scenario. The only thing that's really effecting is Sprint Burst which is hardly ran anyway. By the time they get to a Dead Hard the Exhaustion is probably gone anyway. Not to mention what perk you are dropping for Blood Echoes. Like seriously what perk are you valuing as less than Blood Echoes in the current Plague options?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867783#Comment_867783
You can use perks on other killers though is the problem- and "eyes open" won't help them.
A lot of gens are in areas with walls, you could just walk right around and grab them before they can get off the gen in the like half a second reaction time they have.
You can already do that when you are undetectable for various reasons, I can't imagine just being able to do that all the time. If you can't see the blatant problem with that I don't know what to tell you, do you play survivor much?
I barely play survivor and even I realize how insane that would be.
If it was seriously that detrimental Ghostface would be much more of an issue than he is. That just makes some maps more dangerous than others, not unmanageable. I still don't get pulled off gens with an Undetectable status killer like Ghostface because I have eyes and use them. I have played survivor at rank 1 on every reset since the games release. Most survivors mistake "OP" or "too strong" for them being bad.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Obliviousness when repairing, even as a Demo main that sounds insane.
*Just walks up and grabs people on gens, with them unable to counter play it whatsoever other than having constant 360 visual awareness and xray vision in most cases*
I mean asking them to have their eyes open seems like the easiest possible counter play they could ever be asked to do. They already do it when playing against Ghostface and Demi is way louder.
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I actually think his main issue is his Shred. The portals are pretty fine imo.
His shred is just too unreliable for how fast it needs to end chases to be competitive. As you mentioned OP I think it just needs a little more control in slight angle turning like Billy has at the end of his saw. I also think it's miss penalty needs to be reduced. It's currently just way too easy to dodge and way too heavily penalizing for a miss to be worth using in most cases.
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It's current Exhaustion effect is near worthless.
I like your idea and it's similar to the one I had. Mine was just gens but with the percentage restrictions that it has now. Basically just replace the the Exhaustion for Oblivious. The option you presented works as well though and people would actually consider running it.
Oblivious is vastly more useful than Exhaustion.
Btw you mentioned Blood Echoes because of the exhaustion effect and that perk is pretty trash as well. Hemorrhage is near worthless and not even worth mentioning, so it's basically a 45 second Exhaustion for being injured during a hook...that's awful and not even close to being worth running. If they also changed that Exhaustion for Oblivious now that would be decent.
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Because it's typically a camp fest. Also, survivors enjoy the chase and Hag doesn't chase.
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You're wanting to nerf a perk that isn't even that good. You know when the last time I saw a Rancor was? A few months ago, that's how good it is.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/858568#Comment_858568
That's cute. You think that I'm the one getting slugged. 99% of the time, the killer has never seen me when they do this.
And the hatch mechanic was more broken before.
It's also kinda hard to heal the poor slugged victim when killers patrol their bait.
I'm referencing "You" as a general term to all people who have an issue with slugging for the 4k. Your, "That's cute" to be sarcastically demeaning is quite unnecessary. You can make a rational argument without it.
"And the hatch mechanic was more broken before."
No one has argued that it wasn't more broken before. We are simply saying it is still broken now. It can be less broken and still be broken at the same time.
"It's also kinda hard to heal the poor slugged victim when killers patrol their bait."
And then you are left to freely finish gens with no interruptions whatsoever and escape.
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Slugging for a 4k is not unhealthy. It also isn't holding the game hostage.
Slugging for the 4k is necessary to avoid the broken hatch mechanic. The emblem system also punishes you if you don't.
You wanna talk unhealthy? Leaving your teammmate on the ground to bleed out why you sit in the corner of the map by the hatch waiting for him to die.
The "boring" response about being slugged just doesn't make sense either. Whether you are sitting on the ground or sitting on the hook, either way you are doing nothing. At least with slugging you can try and crawl away and possibly get up without costing you one of your hooks. You also have multiple anti slug perks available.
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Based on what they have said in the past streams they plan on the game still going for years to come and as long as there is a player base still wanting it. So we will probably continue to get a very large roster going.
I also think seeing certain killers very rarely has a lot less to do with how big the roster is and a lot more to do with a lot of those killers just being very weak, which is why not many are playing them.
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Yeah it's already been like that for a few patches
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I personally don't think any of his problems lay with his portals.
The issue is his Shred imo. Rather than making the hits stronger I just think it needs to be made more usable and less risky. By this I mean give some flick to his Shred like how Billy can flick his saw a little in a different direction. This will give it a little more reliability in landing as I think it's just currently too easy to dodge. I also think the recovery needs to be lessened to not be as punishing. It isn't a 1 shot like a Billy saw so I think it can stand to be a little more reliable.
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@LegionOfDumb said:
My only problem with Demogorgan is that using Shred over a basic attack is 9 times out of 10 not worth it.
Yup. High risk for low reward.
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He's only looking like upper mid tier in his current form to me
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Power worst? Legion
Personal taste? Bubba or Billy
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I buy all the cheapest things and in a way that will make the entity take the most so I can collect perks faster.
On my killers and survivors that already have all perks I just go for all the best/most expensive things to collect.
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@Thrrun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/857269#Comment_857269
Sorry Blue, I only just read you post, was not ignoring it.
The game puts the hatch in to give 50/50.
You are the one who feels entitled to take that chance away. That's not how the game is meant to be or the hatch would not be in the game. Once number 3 died EGC would start. The same way it does when you close the hatch.
I am not entitled at all. It's not me who feels I have a right to crap on someone's chance. If you find the hatch and close it that's fair game. However slugging to stop it opening and risking number 4 getting there first is spiteful.
Once it's closed the survivor has to open the gates, without being found. If they are found, fair game. Not every game is perfect so it's unfair to say they already had enough chances but you somehow feel entitled todo so. And then don't like it being called out for what it is, spiteful.
"You are the one who feels entitled to take that chance away. That's not how the game is meant to be or the hatch would not be in the game"
You are missing the entire point. No one has said that wasn't how the game was meant to be. We are giving reasons why it should be changed. Also, just because something is in the game currently doesn't mean it's not bad and should be changed. I mean literally if that was the case why would the devs ever have patches changing anything about the game?
You are saying the hatch is fair because it's a 50/50. However, it is a 50/50 AFTER the survivors have already LOST. Should the last survivor to escape out the gates be blocked for a 50/50 chance in my scenario I presented? After all it's a 50/50, that's fair right? Expecting a hatch after you lost the game is extremely entitled.
". If you find the hatch and close it that's fair game. However slugging to stop it opening and risking number 4 getting there first is spiteful."
I don't see how you can't see the very flawed rational in this. It isn't spiteful, you are being entitled in this scenario.
What do you think of the scenario I presented about the gate blocking the last survivor? That is literally exactly what the survivors currently have. By your logic that is fair.
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@nononono said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856621#Comment_856621
How does the 4th guy get a free escape if the doors aren’t open yet? What are you talking about
We're talking about the hatch.
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You don't need a counter for bloodlust. If the killer is bloodlusting you then you've already wasted so much of their time that your team has probably won the game already. In the majority of time, bloodlusting as a killer is almost always the wrong move.
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@SammehStormborn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/857179#Comment_857179
I know you aren’t completely, but it’s basically a killer running NOED in that scenario and then blood warden - he “hadn’t earned it”, but then slugs everyone with it because no one can escape and gets the kills because he used a one shot perk at the end. Which I have seen happen in YT videos, and might’ve happened when I’ve played survivor, but not so successfully for the killer - it works both ways, right?
there’s always going to be arguments for both sides, sometimes slugging and not letting someone get the hatch is valid, for different reasons, but not alway necessary or doesn’t mean the remaining survivor hasn’t earned it. Sometimes a killer using NOED doesn’t mean they haven’t worked hard through the entire match (I’m not a fan of it personally, but if a killer wants to use it... they can knock themselves out)... etc, etc.
Except in that scenario you are talking about him wasting 2 perk slots on it, the survivors are getting it for free. I also do not like NOED however anyway, I think it gives undeserved kills.
"Slugging someone to stop someone else getting a fair chance is spiteful"
They are not being slugged to prevent a fair chance. They are being slugged to prevent an unfair chance. They already had their chance with 4 survivors to do 5 gens. Expecting another free chance is entitlement.
"You are also stopping another from moving on to another match, the guy on the floor."
Slugging is not stopping anyone from moving on to another match. What is stopping them from moving on is not saving their teammate or doing a gen and just hiding till they die.
"The fact remains the same, it's spiteful gameplay."
It is not spiteful in the least. That is entitlement.
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@SammehStormborn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856986#Comment_856986
think of it this way. That survivor who’s left outlived the other survivors... the ones who couldn’t evade you or do anything constructive to help in the survival of everyone, the remaining survivor has done their bit, evaded you and tried to do their best... so by hooking the third instead of slugging, you give them the chance to either a) go for the save and continue doing their bit or b) get caught and you earn that right to deny the hatch; regardless - you might find it first anyway.
I’m a killer main btw, before I get responses that I’m a survivor main ;) just food for thought.
Purple ranks I can still get merciless letting someone live (if they’re on death hook), & red ranks it’s still at least 1. You’ll always pip & rank as long as you’re efficient.
To me it's the equivalent of the killer getting zero kills before all gens are done but as they are all running out the gate it shuts close blocking the last guy from leaving and the hatch spawns for an equal chance of kill or escape.
That would be a stupid scenario to have. If they got all the gens done and would've escaped I had my chance and lost, they earned that escape. That scenario would be giving me a freebie I didn't earn and I wouldn't expect it. That scenario is what the survivors currently have.
Should I get that scenario as a killer because I "tried my best"? I personally don't think so.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856969#Comment_856969
Which doesn't change the hatch is not free.
It is a free chance that wasn't earned. Your chance was the gens and that was failed.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856943#Comment_856943
Considering the idiots I encounter I think the first chance is debatable.
Even if your entire team sucks it is still very easy to die and still pip as survivor. This ranks you up and the likelyhood of bad teams gets lower and lower.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856898#Comment_856898
The fact that you assume your team can be counted on to do anything is baffling.
That wasn't something my post assumed at all. You get good teams and you get bad teams, that doesn't mean you have any reason to get a second chance.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856858#Comment_856858
Yeah. Because it's completely reasonable to expect 1 survivor to complete 5 gens.
The reasonable chance was 4 survivors to complete 5 gens, that WAS your chance and your team failed. You don't get another chance at winning for no reason, you already had it.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856787#Comment_856787
It's boring but it's whatever. Of course considering how much faster you are as killer you have the advantage finding it.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856801#Comment_856801
Which still doesn't make it free. Ffs if they got there first they either out played you or got lucky.
Outplaying is getting all the gens done. The hatch even spawning is a freebie chance at survival that wasn't earned. Not the escape, literally just the hatch even spawning to give you the chance.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856731#Comment_856731
That doesn't make it free. They still had to find it before you. If you don't like the hatch escape find it first.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856746#Comment_856746
Yeah. They got there first. Meaning they meet the condition they needed to in order to escape. It seems a really hard concept for people.
Yes it is. If I don't like the hatch I'll slug you all, which is where we are at now. You shouldn't even have the chance to find a hatch first in that scenario because you failed your objective.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856621#Comment_856621
It's not free. They had to find the hatch before you.
They failed to do the gens and got to escape, that is a freebie.
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@Sign_Spinner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856557#Comment_856557
If none of your teammates are saving you then that isn't an issue with the killer slugging, that's an issue with bad teammates.
Not really. Some killers, especially the stealthy ones, love to camp the downed survivor to use them as bait.
In those circumstances it still isn't the killers fault for slugging. It's either that or the 4th person gets a free escape and he very possibly doesn't pip for it.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856509#Comment_856509
Because you can suicide on hook. And at least you get struggle bps.
Why bother living longer on the ground? I can see that the guy is not planning to pick me up.
You get more bloodpoints getting back up and doing the objective than you do from struggle points. Also, why are none of your teammates saving you? If none of your teammates are saving you then that isn't an issue with the killer slugging, that's an issue with bad teammates.
This means the issue has nothing at all to do with it being more boring to be on the ground. Why would the killer want to hook someone that he knows just wants to kill themselves early ruining the game for him and the rest of the survivors team?
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@Alice_pbg said:
They complain because it's boring to be in the ground doing nothing.
Not because the killer can't try to get a 4k
How is that any different whatsoever than sitting on a hook doing nothing?
At least on the ground it isn't counting as one of your hooks and you get to live longer. Not to mention you at least get to try and crawl.
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@VincentRedfield said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856457#Comment_856457
I invite you to play a game without hatch.
It's called Killer Lobby Simulator. Go sit in it for 30 mins and enjoy!
I play solo survivor as well and I don't need a crutch freebie escape because my team played badly. That would be a level of entitlement.
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The hatch shouldn't even exist like that in the first place. He also has to slug for the 4k if he doesn't want to depip because of how the ranking system is designed. Slugging like that isn't killers faults, it's simply them working with the terrible balance and system they have been dealt, they don't want to slug.
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@Cymer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856391#Comment_856391
Not really. Did you played against the Oni on PTB? Looping during his powers isn't viable. He is too mobile, one shots pallets and yourself if he hits you.
Yes, he can't turn even remotely as fast as a survivor can to loop pallets. His mobility is only downing a survivor that is being oblivious and has terrible pathing. His power doesn't counter loops at all.
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" it's getting evident the developers are running out of ideas for new powers."
I think you're misunderstanding what is going on with the killer powers. The devs aren't using the same abilities multiple times because they're running out of ideas, they are are re-using them because it's cheaper and faster. It's the same reason we have multiple variations of map types...because it's faster and cheaper than to make an entire brand new map with brand new assets from scratch every new chapter.
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Literally the exact same counter as almost every other killer on the entire roster...looping.
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@SeducedByDaemonette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/855836#Comment_855836
Good killer can deal with good survivors , if they want more nerfs to survivor/buffs to killers they this game to be balanced around potato killers
No, they can't.
Unless you're playing a couple of the top tier killers that are actually viable you will lose an equally skilled match if the survivors aren't playing like potatoes or trolling.