My only problem with ds
I think ds is fine for the most part. It has counters, but it’s annoying when I hook the guy. He gets unhooked while I chase and hook another guy. Than I happen to find the first guy again, hit them twice during a chase, than once I pick them up it’s been less than a minute since they got hooked so I get denied a hook. It’s an anti tunnel perk but i honestly don’t like a surprise ds when I’m just playing the game “fairly” to the survivors. My solution, which is just off the top of my head is that if a survivor heals to healthy before the timer is out than the perk is disabled. Or just add the broken status effect on the survivor for the active duration of ds, but don’t show the killer that the survivor is broken
Comments
Perk gets deactivated when any survivor gets hooked = easy fix.
I feel like that wouldn’t work for situation like this: the killer is camping (not me) and a bill with (without bt) attempts to save/trade hooks. The killer hits bill twice while saving you. The killer slugs your friend and chases you down for a moment. The killer manages to down you quickly and rushes back to the bill. He hooks the bill and your ds is than deactivated. The killer comes back to put you on a hook close by and than both survivors die. I can understand from a survivors perspective how that could be consider a cheap kill and I, myself, as a killer would agree. At first I agreed with you and than I thought about it a moment. I’m any other case, I agree. I just mainly hate when I am not tunneling at all, but I’m just doing good enough to down the survivors fast enough and I get DS’d anyway.
Shorten the timer to 40 seconds and deactivate as soon as any survivor is hooked.
I'm fine with an anti-tunnel perk, it's just currently another second chance perk being abused as a 60 second immunity.
Sadly bhvr thinks its fine to down someone and wait 60 seconds as a killer.
I think it's fine as it is. While I admit a lot can happen in a full minute, the point is that someone fresh off the hook has a second chance for only one minute. That's not a lot of time to get to safety, heal, and perhaps do some other stuff, unless the person is hanging around the hook to save the person who rescued initially, or if there are only one or two players left. On top of that it only works once per match.
There are lots of game-changing perks, but that's what they're for, to change up the way things happen and surprise you. With the survival rate <50% (to my knowledge) giving an extra chance for one minute doesn't seem like that big a deal. Not everyone has DS. And with the plethora of stealth, insta-kill killers (sometimes in the same package) they need some chance to escape. You can't base the game around the skills of the top 1%.
My only issue with it is, two survivors are left, one is fully healed, one goes on hook. Healed one opens the gate, unhooks the guy. I can't even get that kill because DS says "haha no"
Fine as it is.
Perk stays active until another survivor is hooked = better fix.
The timer is removed. Just as killers will now be able to hook someone else and not get hit, now survivors can’t outrun their own timer. Might still get slugged of course, but at least that aspect is removed and it forces the killer to hook another survivor before picking them up or knowingly take the risk. If the killers complaining about DS truly aren’t tunneling, they should be perfectly fine with this.
40 seconds is too short. Let’s use the most common example of tunneling, which is a proxy camper who returns to the hook when the survivor gets rescued. Maybe this survivor doesn’t go down instantly, but reaches a pallet and stays up for 25-30 seconds before going down. You would say it’s ok that the tunneling killer now only has to wait a mere 10 seconds to just pick them up? No. I’m fine with it deactivating upon hooking someone else, but only with the tradeoff of no timer. Otherwise, it should stay exactly as it is.
If he really spent 40 seconds for all that it's already cost him all map pressure and he lost at least a gen or more. 40 seconds might not be "saving" the survivor but it's costing the killer the game to do so.
The reason I wanted the timer reduction added is because there are many times that you will just happen to run into the same survivor twice in a row before the windows of DS has ended. That isn't tunneling but you are still punished. With how much pressure the killer has to keep up he can't afford to just find a survivor and then decide to let them go.
I just don’t subscribe at all to the theory that the killer has been punished enough, in my scenario this killer doesn’t become the victim in 40 seconds. They made the choice to tunnel the unhooked survivor, that’s their problem and should still get hit no matter how long it goes on. Also a timer of only 40 seconds is certainly going to mean less people running it, which is another win for tunneling.
I understand the scenario you’re saying, but if you just make it no timer and deactivates upon hooking someone else, I think it solves the issues of both sides. By far the biggest complaint about DS is “I hooked someone else, ran into the previous guy, and got hit with DS”. That’s fixed. Every killer will know once they throw someone on the hook, find someone else or risk DS. Simple. No timer helps address survivor complaints of being tunneled but not being able to use it. Sounds fair to me.
The issue I have with it (when I'm playing killer), is when the person(s) with DS go out of their way to make it next to impossible for you to hit anyone other than them via bodyblocking (this can get especially bad if they were rescued with BT).
You either slug them (allowing them to keep DS to try again next hook), or you let them activate DS (giving them tons of distance). In either case, the person you were originally chasing to avoid tunneling gets a lot of distance.
If a nerf to DS was needed, then I would advocate it exhausting the survivor when used (but it can still be used while exhausted). This would still allow it to be used as anti-tunnel (just make sure that you use the exhaustion perk to extend the chase as long as possible first), while punishing those that treat it like an invulnerability period since they wont have access to their exhaustion perk afterwards.
"I just don’t subscribe at all to the theory that the killer has been punished enough,"
Losing the game isn't punishment enough?
"in my scenario this killer doesn’t become the victim in 40 seconds. They made the choice to tunnel the unhooked survivor, that’s their problem and should still get hit no matter how long it goes on."
In 40 seconds the killer is the victim. 40 seconds is an entire gen and a half assuming no other gen speed up perks or items. That is a lot of the survivor objective completed for a single digit percent of the killers. Their punishment is gens being done.
"I understand the scenario you’re saying, but if you just make it no timer and deactivates upon hooking someone else, I think it solves the issues of both sides."
It doesn't. With no timer the scenario I described will happen even more and it's already an issue at 60 seconds.
"No timer helps address survivor complaints of being tunneled but not being able to use it."
That literally almost never happens and if it did, as I've said that already cost the killer the entire game even WITHOUT having DS, literally just the chase time. The only time they are getting that timer ran out and being tunneled is by being slugged and there are multiple anti-slug perks as well as slugging being extremely risky for the killer in the first place.
Idc really. But you have to think about endgame. If your variant would be implemented, DS would be a free escape, or the killer would need to keep you slugged till you bleed out. Not cool.
I see some good ideas here actually tbh.
The biggest issue with DS is that it rewards making huge mistakes, and punishes the killer for the survivors mistakes. That makes no sense; and it's really ridiculous.
OTZ video on the topic really explains the frustrations clearly. We are 100% okay with the anti tunnel aspect of it, that much is okay and makes total sense.
If you view an unhook tunneling killer as the victim at any point, there’s nothing left to say as we are worlds apart on our stance. Agree to disagree. DS should stay as is then, no way in hell should it just be flat nerfed 20 seconds AND deactivate with a hook.
The perk is already S+ tier and probably the best perk in the game and you think it would need compensation? I think if you'd play more killer at high ranks you'd understand what I'm saying.
This conversation isn't about who is the "victim" it's about balancing the game. 1 survivor getting tunneled in exchange for all the other survivors escaping is a big loss for the killer. That isn't a subjective thing, it is objective. 1 kill and 3 escape is by the devs balance standards a loss for the killer. Also in the scenario we are describing that is a depip.
Yeah that's always a fun one "Oh no I'm being tunneled, better run in a straight line to the nearest locker, or if there isn't one just around a loop without dropping the pallet or using my dead hard I already showed you, come on pick me up or slug me for another 40 seconds"