Batusalen
Batusalen
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544717#Comment_3544717
But she specifically wrote, her ping is stable 20-40ms. But this game just favors laggy killers. That's bad design. All the other games give you disadvantage (or at least try to be neutral) if you have high ping. That's not true for DBD. Here, having large ping helps you tremendously - as you see survivors, that are still not moving (because they have shorter reaction time thanks to killer's ping not arriving to survivor to see where killer goes + killer sees survivors standing on a spot for longer time because it takes longer for updated position of survivor to arrive to his client - overall 2x the bonus that help just killer).
TBF - I am talking about latency and not frame drops (that can be bad for killer too - and it does not matter if drops are on survivor or killer - a killer will still see teleporting survivor regardless).
We had a long discussion about all this already, including why those kinds of things she describes are just product of how latency in multiplayer games works and how it affects both survivors and killers. But if she is having all those problems all the time, then probably it's her connection.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544712#Comment_3544712
I'm not sure if you've ever played survivor before but its not exactly easy to escape a killer right off the hook on most maps. They're going to catch you whether it takes 10 seconds or a few more. Tunneling completely ruins the survivor experience in this game. You seem to have an unreasonable expectation for survivors to be able to evade killers in even the most inconvenient situations. In my experience most survivor players can't do this and neither should they be expected to. It is unfair to lay the blame on them when there is very little a survivor can do to avoid being tunneled. We need more than perks and basekit abilities to deal with this.
One simple way they could do it is to have the killer's movement speed slowed if they are in chase of an unhooked survivor. If they know chasing the unhooked survivor will just slow them down, I believe most killers would likely not do this. Maybe have it not work once the exit gates are powered, but before that more needs to be done to keep the killer away from hooked survivors and more time traversing the map looking for others.
I'm not just play survivor and I'm doing it right now while writing this, I'm a killer that doesn't follow the survivor's rulebook, or in other words, that if I can tunnel you I will because I play to win.
The anti-tunnel BT it's fine, does it's job in punishing the killer if they tunnel unless the survivor itself makes it worth it. Simple as that.
Also, I have never faced so much tunneling for it to be "detrimental" to my experience. In any case, I have more problems with how my fellow survivors plays that what the killer does in most of the games.
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Because survivors doesn't have the remote idea of how to play against her even after all these years and "hours of expertise". I have recently got her to prestige 3 and I have faced a few survivors that know how to loop her and made me sweat for the hook, and many others that just tried to do what they do against any other killer and predropped pallets in front of me and me be like "Dude, I... I can phase through those...".
If that proves anything, is that the skill ceiling of survivors is so low right now that anything that isn't "use WoO, press W and go from pallet to pallet" seems impossible to counter for them and totally OP. That, and that having a lot of hours and "P100" means absolutely nothing in terms of skill.
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@Ariel_Starshine said:
I took a break from the game in July, hoping that things would get fixed, like severe bugs and issues, however, I noticed the same problems are still here.
The issue where I can't drop a palette in chase, my character stands there and dies.
The issue where I somehow manage to drop a palette, but then the killer is stunned and somehow "die" while they are stunned.
The issue where I vault and am magically somehow sucked back over the window.
The issue where players with horrible ping are allowed to stay in a match. In Texas Chainsaw Massacre if your ping is deemed too high, you get kicked out of the match. Why is this acceptable here to play with a ping so high it tilts the game in one's favor?
I am asking the developers or the community rep, are these issues ever going to be fixed or should I just accept it and move on to something else? Not ranting or angry, just honestly asking because I don't want to sink any more of my time into something if it is intended to stay this way.
I am only looking for official responses (If anybody has any links to what the developers said in the past) and not speculation. I'd really like to know, at least if there is an estimate on these fixes or if it's even a known problem would be a start. Thanks :)
The only thing BHVR can do about it is try to improve their lag compensation on the server, but if your lag is high whatever they do you would still have those problems.
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544242#Comment_3544242
I'm specifically talking about killers who chase down unhooked survivors that are just trying to run away from the killer. This isn't about unhooked survivors taking protection hits. Its not even part of the problem here. The problem is killers countering anti tunneling mechanics quickly.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3544277#Comment_3544277
Its my thread and I still think this is a problem. I don't need to make another thread about it when I already have this one.
And I already addressed that case as well, and the conclusion is the same. If so many killers are choosing to go after you, and they are tunneling you so successfully that you are not even wasting more than the 10 seconds of Endurance + Haste you received for free of his time, then the problem is probably you and not the anti-hook system.
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@KateMain86 said:
The unhook protections are useless against tunneling killers. They already have the timing of it memorized and all they do now is wait it out and hit you at the EXACT moment it wears off. Unhook protections do not offer enough protection against killers who play this way. If the killer chases you off hook, these protections should persist. If the killer hits you before the normal time period of the protection buffs then the buffs should extend and begin to wear off after the first hit. This is just the new way killers are playing now. They don't care about the unhook protections. It took them every bit of a day to figure out how to play around it. Killers should not be rewarded for playing this way.
With the speed and the hit protection, going after you has being always inconvenient and a time waster for the killer unless you make it convenient.
I don't know how many times some survivors have wasted almost half of their unhook BT trying to make a protection hit. If you are just unhooked and you launch straight to me because you want to use your valuable free Endurance to protect your savior, then I will assume that you want to get chased again. In your mind what should I do, just hit you and be like "Aaaah you got me! Now get out of here, you rascal!" and let you go?
In any other case, even if the killer tries to go after you, you should have plenty of time to get to a loop and keep wasting more of his time, without counting that again, he would have to employ more time to catch you than going after your unhooker.
In other words, if you confront so many killers that can tunnel you so effectively, maybe you should revise how are you playing and what are you doing to make it so easy for them.
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@Libervita said:
In my experience, when Hex faces experienced survivors, It often cannot survive the first minute.
You are giving too much credit to survivor's skills when in reality the culprit for that is RNG and totem placement.
It doesn't requires any skill if the game spawn a survivor just besides the hex at the start of the game. And it doesn't help that many totems are placed just beside generators, either.
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@Pavel_Ch said:
everyone only thinks about genrush when guys with straight arms continue to set records on killers
Because it is the exact same situation having one killer with instadown and high mobility down piled on survivors thanks to game RNG than be able to do gens in less than 3 minutes against any killer of the game 10 games straight.
Totally comparable.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543818#Comment_3543818
Apologies man if I'm being dense, I'm trying to find the slowdown for Xeno tail on hit... I can't find anywhere that states it, and I can't visually see a difference...
Both cooldowns are 3 seconds whether you hit or miss... miss is 1.2m/s... what is the slowdown on hit? I'm currently guessing they're the same...
For example:
- For a hit on lunge attack the Killer movement speed has a multiplyer of 0.125 with a 2.7s CD. (0.575 m/s on a 4.6 Killer)
- For a miss on a lunge attack the Killer movement speed has a multiplyer of 0.25 with a 1.5s CD. (1.15 m/s on a 4.6 Killer)
Typically speaking a hit has a harsher slow down than a miss in DBD... so if hitting a turret with a tail strike counts as a "hit", I would expect the Xeno to move even slower than 1.2m/s... unless it moves the same...
The speed the Xeno moves on tail attack hit is pretty crucial information for this suggestion, because this might actually be a nerf... unless I'm totally misunderstanding you.
It says it there. Before it was 2.0 m/s doesn't matter if you missed, hit a wall, or a survivor. Now, in theory, it's only 2 m/s when not missing or hitting a wall. Except it also applies the 1.2 m/s on cooldown when destroying turrets.
This punish you even when doing good and destroying it on time, and makes that even if survivors doesn't position turrets well (as a good positioned turret will put the Xeno in the situation of having to choose to destroy the turret or keep chasing the survivor at the cost of his power) and you can easily destroy it, still gives a lot of advantage to survivors.
That's why destroying a turret should count as a successful attack, not an obstructed hit.
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@UndeddJester said:
EDIT: Isn't the hit CD and miss CD the same regardless?
3 seconds at 1.2m/s either way?
- The Xenomorph:
- Reviewed the Remote Flame Turret placement logic to allow for more flexibility when deploying them
- Decreased the Tail Attack cooldown movement speed from 2 to 1.2 m/s when missing or when it is obstructed
The problem is, by the animation it plays, hitting a turret counts as an "obstructed" hit as it is the same one that plays when you hit a wall, so it applies the speed reduction.
- The Xenomorph:
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543022#Comment_3543022
They said it's early production lol.
It was not ready to come live, that's why it was abusable. Because it was early version. They are still working on it and it will come to game at one point.
I will judge anti-camp whenever i see in PTB, i don't care how it sounds in paper. I will test it and then i will share my opinion on that.
You got it in reverse. It was not ready because it was abusable. They needed to "still work" on it because they didn't expect survivors abuse it in that way. If they really though it was too early to release, they wouldn't put it to test in a PTB. Simple as that.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542988#Comment_3542988
There are people who actually think that and my opinion of most of players is low enough to take it seriously.
Yeah, that's the joke...
@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543006#Comment_3543006
idk who K is... but it does have to do with what you said.
Since then the game has done nothing but make it impossible for survivors to survive.
the escape time record was literally broken. so how is it impossible or even harder than before? and there's several games in the video that show similar times indicating it's consistent.
just gonna say it... you might be dealing with a skill issue.
Again, survivors doesn't have skill issues! Killers are just OP! Survivors don't need to get better at the game, the game should be easier so they don't need to have any skill to begin with!
I don't know how so many people still doesn't get this...
(And yes, I'm obviously joking here again 🤣)
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542784#Comment_3542784
Mori system was not coming to live even if it was fine. Devs said they are still working on this system and it was just early test.
Anti-Camp system will come to live servers because it's final version we are gonna test. Unless if it is really so busted and game breaker. But i doubt.
The anti-slug mori system didn't come to live because survivor abused the hell out of it, like many other mechanics they have tried in the past to solve gameplay issues that already have gameplay solutions.
So we will see with this new one. In paper, already sounds abusable, specially in multi floor maps.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542939#Comment_3542939
DBD was always about the side who wants to win more (use resources) is more likely to win. That's still true, but less than during Mori/key era.
I don't care about what this video proves. That guy wanted to see it, so I showed him a link.
Not really reason to cry about it. They are tournament level players using gen rushing perks. Of course they are going to destroy public games.
Same goes for tournament level killers.
You are not really correct with saying killers are OP. Is trapper OP? Is pig Op? Hell no
You have to be really specific. Otherwise it's just incorrect.
*Whooooosh!*
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Nah dude, this proves nothing. Killers are OP and only them have skill issues no matter how legit any of their complains about the game is. Survivors are at an obvious disadvantage and if they doesn't do good is because not everybody is a tournament competitive player and how the game is designed, not that they are not good enough.
Seriously tho, that's impressive gameplay. The sole fact that they can do all 5 gens in less than 3 minutes baffles me.
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Because they are smart enough to know that if they take that hit, unless the killer is an advocate of the Survivors Rulebook, he is going to tunnel him with good reason and no one to blame but himself.
The basekit BT is not for tanking hits, it's for protecting the unhooked person from getting tunneled. If you don't want to do a trade, don't unhook near the killer and much less if you are already injured.
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It would be nice if they added stats in-game so you don't need to rely on third party apps, to be honest. But until that happens, you can just take screenshots of the end game screen in PS4 and upload them to Nightlight so you can keep track of your stats, as it works by manually uploading the image without taking in count the platform afaik.
Save the memorable moments in your games on PS4™ consoles by taking screenshots and recording video clips. -
@Aliespress_Ada said:
So that means survivors are supposed to take one for the team and play these kind of games (as in the video)?
I mean, i m pretty sure, there are killers with better ping to be matched with...
I don't know where the concept of lag still only benefiting the killer comes from, but damn, it is popular.
Lag affect negatively or positively both killers and survivors, depending on who is the one with higher latency and the situation, as in any other game with dedicated servers. So, in any case, is everyone with a good connection who has to take one for the people with lag until they add more servers.
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@Batusalen said:
My bet is that they're going to make the tail attack charge longer and probably make so you can place the turrets in close spaces.
Other than that, I don't think they would touch it so much. Yes, I'm overly optimistic sometimes.
Well, I was half right.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539993#Comment_3539993
or maybe it's just luck?
Look at the video - that Claud started to turning BEFORE there was any cue (go at it frame by frame if u can't see it immediately). Xeno probably just missed and didn't adjust/drag his hitbox to compensate and Claud fully "dodged" when there was absolutely nothing to dodge any more.
You also saw it frame by frame in previous video.
Or if you just can't accept anything from me, go to Hens's stream and ask him (or any other bigger streamer that actually plays both sides).
Dude... look at the name of that Claudette. It wasn't luck. I heard the audio cue, I know the timing from using the attack myself, I started turning and when I knew the tail was coming I got to the side. And I just did it again in another game that if I would know you would keep with that, I would also had recorded for you to see.
I guess you don't play fighting games, where you have a window of 15 frames (0.25 seconds, way low than the tail attack taking in count charge plus attack window) to punish someone for making a mistake and sometimes you need to do frame perfect inputs to do combos.
It is completely possible to dodge the tail attack and you only need to get the timing right. It is undeniable fact with video evidence for it. That, or maybe me and the others that do it can see the future and that's why we are able to predict when it is coming, who knows.
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My bet is that they're going to make the tail attack charge longer and probably make so you can place the turrets in close spaces.
Other than that, I don't think they would touch it so much. Yes, I'm overly optimistic sometimes.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
Understandable why the Flashlights get kill switched since Survivors aren't able to be hit unless you're Pyramid Head. However, why didn't anybody think to kill switch Merciless Storm when it was bugged?
You kill switched it before hand cause it was crashing games the first time, then you re enabled it and it was seriously bugged once again after being re enabled that you could have a gen at 90% and if you missed your skill check the gen had a high chance at not having any regression, 50% progress lost, or fully regressed to 0% with 1 skill check.
BHVR your kill switches makes no sense a lot of the time.
Merciless Storm was in fact killswitched, and I know because I used it in one of my builds. The thing is, they returned it to the game thinking the bug was solved when it wasn't for some reason.
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https://imgur.com/a/Znt0O0x@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539338#Comment_3539338
Ah yes. Like those that were proven to be false by Scott (and I posted it "only" 2x in this same thread). And you talk about not willing to accept facts
Are you going to say that this one is false, too? A noob playing with keyboard that still makes rookie mistakes in loops, reacting to the audio cue of the tail and dodging it without even looking.
But who knows, maybe it is fake. After all, no one is able to get the timing of the attack and know exactly when it is coming, as it is impossible to react, right?...
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@ToxicSamurai7015 said:
Maybe survivors wouldnt feel the need to cheat If almost every killer wasn't being a camping/slugging bully pos.killers are way to over powered and need to be nerfed. And don't give me no crap about camping and slugging being strategy.with strategy you actually use your brain, You just want a 4K without having to earn it.and you also say Oh, if a killer is camping you that gives time for the survivors to do other gens. No, I'm gonna try to save them. Because why would I let anybody bully somebody else? It's not fair that 9 out of 10 games is ruined by a bully and it's not fair that killers can see Survivors add-ons and prepare for it but we can't see there's. Survivors literally have no defense other than running in a circle. And most killers can counter that. So if you ask me, this exploit actually makes the game a little bit more Fair. That being said, if you are cheater or a bully of any kind stay off of dead by daylight, no one wants to play with you.
"You just want a 4K without having to earn it", says the guy defending cheating by exploiting bugs to make you invulnerable. Flawless logic here.
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This will be funny if it wasn't so sad. The game's on flames because a game breaking bug that people are exploiting and the only thing they have to post in Twitter is this:
https://twitter.com/DeadbyDaylight/status/17012342348226563746 cheaters recorded and reported just this morning. Good job, BHVR...
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3539056#Comment_3539056
there's no muscle memory to build, because there's no reacting to it - as was shown in video already. So you have no "fact" for me to accept.
If there's no reacting to things, then for all intends and purposes Xeno's power is instashoot from survivor's perspective (sure enough, it's not from killer's perspective, but as there is no possible time to react - for survivor it's instascope DS with same kind of counter - "just guess correctly").
And I will not accept Nemesis holding-power thing, because when he holds his ability - he kind of commits to it - opening different kind of counterplay against him. So there's always something you can do (at least in a sense - do not get to situation X). That's not true for Xeno. That's why everyone complains about Xeno.
That's why there is multiple video evidence of people reacting and dodging the attack, because there is no fact to accept...
Again, whatever makes you sleep better dude. But the undeniable fact in all this is that you are in denial.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538943#Comment_3538943
All I can say let's agree to disagree. I could suggest you to any larger streamer and ask what tier list is xeno vs nemesis and why, but you still just don't want to understand that the "inconsequential difference" in their abilities (such as wind-up time and others) is the reason why nobody is asking for nemesis nerf. But it does not matter. I don't see it your way and you won't see it my way.
And why would I ask anybody that when we are not comparing the killers as a whole? Nemesis has an anti-loop power and that's about it. Xeno is a chaser, and in this current meta that's why overall it is better than Nemesis, just as the same reason that Wesker or any other killer with chase capabilities is better than Nemesis or any other killer.
What you don't want to accept is that having the ability to hold an attack to mindgame and aim is better than just firing it, starting with survivors being able to generate muscle memory since the timing of the attack is always the same. That's why with Nemesis you charge, the survivor try to dodge after hearing the audio cue of the charging, you wait for them to move and then strike them with an attack that is even faster than the Xeno's tail.
One thing is disagree based on facts, other thing is not accepting those facts. So again, if you can't or don't want to understand and accept it, you do you. But you are just making excuses to have arguments for a nerf at this point.
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538445#Comment_3538445
Nobody should be banned for devs mistakes. They are playing the game as installed. If anyone gets banned over this it'll be ridiculous when the devs can kill switch flashlights in a hour.
It's not up to the player base to not use glitches because you can't fix your game. The Fast vaults where technically a glitch, is everyone that did a mega fast vault before patch gonna be banned?
Is everyone playing xeno right now gonna be banned because cooldown glitch?
If you find a bug by accident and report it, that's not baneable. If you use that bug intentionally to gain an advantage, in any game since the old times of multiplayers games has being a baneable offense as it is a method of cheating.
There is a reason it is called "bug exploiting". And I hope they ban every single reported player that used it.
For the rest, grab you favorite recording program and not just report in game, go to BHVR page and create a ticket with the video attached showing clearly they are exploiting it.
If anyone need a tutorial on how to record the game with an Nvidia graphics card or how to cut the video so you comply with the 50mb limit required to send it I can do it.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538365#Comment_3538365
Nemesis has longer windup and much less control after he M2's. So there's no comparison.
What windup? And what it has to do with the ability to hold the attack after charging it?
The differences are, again centiseconds between both attacks. In fact, without counting the charge time, Nemesis's whip fire faster than Xeno's tail.
But whatever you say dude, I'm not going to repeat myself over and over. If you can't (or don't want to) understand that being able to hold the attack and mindgame with it would make it so much harder to dodge and easy to aim than it firing automatically it's on you.
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@Nikolaifly said:
I cant even believe this. Nobody disliked fast vaults? Are they trying to slowly remove vaults altogether? The old update was great, but reverting it wasnt even that big of a deal but to REMOVE FAST VAULTS!? This is wild!
What I can't believe is that there is people that still doesn't know that the "new fast vaults" were bugged to the point of softlocking the tutorial and making survivors immune to damage the moment they started the vaulting animation. That's why they reverted the change they did to try fix another bug and are already working on fixing them for good.
@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532818#Comment_3532818
female survivors were working properly tho , thats the problem people were overreacting about non-existent i frames during the vaults , it was just a visual bug because males were vauting insanely further than females.
and instead of fixing the couple of bugs on females like when vaulting from a high place you were getting send to the ground more faster than usual , they just made it terrible for males and females.
old DBD footage: (default vault speed , no ressilience , no spine chill)
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/K47WCO3ZJCQ5/old-vault-good-ping.gif
I-frames were a thing aparently to some people , not just a well timed fast vault because bad players were crying about their pixel hits not connecting anymore , well there you go , this is how hitboxes work at lower latencys soo people can shut up about it.
WITH CURRENT FAST VAULT THIS CASES WILL NEVER HAPPEN CLAPS BAD PLAYERS / LAGGY PLAYERS.
Still with that? Not clear enough that is not how vaults are supposed to work and that old gif only shows you not getting hit because of your lag when the game was P2P?
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3538259#Comment_3538259
Why would you want to stop it when u have still full control and can hit over everything? It's just delayed win. It's very rare that you actually truly want to "cancel" your hit
For the same reason that you would want to hold your whip with Nemesis, to mindgame the attack when the audio cue of the charging ends and wait that additional second to see if the survivor tries to dodge or stay walking forward, so you can aim it.
I don't think it is so hard to understand.
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@saintjimmy456 said:
Call my cynical, but with DLC killers, I feel like they release them at their most powerful, get everybody to buy them, then nerf them and get ready to release the new DLC killer with the poweful perks and abilities, and so on.
So will they ever make Freddy as powerful as he used to be when everybody used to play him? Not if people aren't gonna pay for it.
Xeno will get nerfed before the next DLC killer is available I predict.
Freddy released as the weakest killer BHVR could ever come up with. What are you talking about?
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I keep bringing up the "Freddy on release" thing because it is the most obvious case of "if people complain, then they must be right" blind balancing I have ever see in any game. Hopefully, BHVR seems to learn a little from experiences like this and at least try to not repeat the errors from the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXwqWxNKdOUAlso, some people thinks that the game is "killer sided" now because survivors have had such an advantage in the game for so many years than any balancing change affecting them seems to be just to "babying killers". This is nothing new, as even when BHVR nerfed the "god mode build" that allowed survivors to heal faster than the cooldown between basic attacks some people criticized them arguing "they don't want the game to be fun".
Anything they do to balance the game that isn't a 100% buff to survivor or 100% nerf to killers = BHVR is killer sided. In other words, the same old song.
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@quandale said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536840#Comment_3536840
As for this, killers decided dead hard was too OP - even though it was mind gameable. Was this not your point to begin with, you started with the fact that people are just.. learning to dodge it?
That is why its comparable.
"Mind gameable"... DH was as "mind gameable" as Xeno's tails is not "dodgeable", in other words, just a little. But if that's your point of comparation, then Xeno's tail is not "mind gameable" at all, as the moment you press M2 the attack start and you can do nothing to stop it.
So, even with your twisted logic you are wrong, as you can't compare something being "mind gameable" with the possibilities to dodge other thing. Again, false equivalency.
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After reading the comments here, I have came to the conclusion that you should always slug the 3º survivor the 4 minutes with no intention to hook him.
After all, you are going to be the bad guy whatever you do, even when it's the survivor himself who obviously don't want to get hooked.
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@Steakdabait said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536871#Comment_3536871
Where's my lag comp as survivor then? To my knowledge it's literally only biased towards survivors for grabs from gens and totems etc., other than that nearly every other chase related aspect of the game has little to no lag comp for survivors
And on pallets drops. If you stunt the killer, the server give you that hit even after the killer hit and down you. That's why sometimes the killer sees clearly how you got hit but he is stunned anyway and you got out of there not injured. This is called "favoring the shooter", an industry standard for action games and FPS, that favor the "shooter" view unless there is some condition for why it shouldn't (example, the gen grabs: The killer sees how the grab animation start as he is still seeing you doing the gen, the server get the info that you in fact got up before the grab, it respect your view and the animation for the killer is stopped and become a hit instead... when it becomes a hit and not just make you stand there).
Besides of that, lag compensation works at all times. Have you seen those 60ms that the game says is your latency? That's how much time your info take to get to the server. If the killer has another 60ms of ping, then that means that the info got to the killer 120ms later than you do some action, and vice versa. The server compensate this with many techniques, including predicting what your actions are going to be and doing roll backs in some situations (like in the gen grabs), so it can do an accurate simulation that acts as middle point of what both players are doing and seeing to maintain it as fair as possible.
In other words, as long as the connections of the 5 clients (the 4 survivors and the killer player) is stable and not high, the server will compensate for most inconsistencies caused by latency. The keyword here being most, as I had already said in other post, there will always be problems caused by lag and until we can get info packets travel instantly, the only thing we can do is mitigate the effects. But, again, BHVR is the responsible of implementing those mitigations and how they exactly work and we can only speculate with the most used techniques in the industry as we don't know how they compensate for lag in DbD.
Here I already gave an example (even if not totally accurate and without taking in count lag compensation) of how things works in a basis:
@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536529#Comment_3536529
But it couldn't, that's the thing. And it couldn't, as it would still have the same problems than with normal hits.
Imagine I give you a photo done 50 seconds ago of me just behind a survivor. In those 50 seconds I didn't move, but the survivor did. The thing is, you don't know that, the only info you have is that photo. Did I hit the survivor, or have him gained enough distance to avoid the attack?
Now imagine the contrary, you have a photo of me starting a lung attack and the survivor is far from me so I won't be able to hit him, but since that photo was taken the survivor walked to me so I would be able to hit him. Again, did I hit him with the info you had?
Now, change 50 seconds to 50 milliseconds and that's what is happening in the server. So, even with both players having a "low latency" connection, there would be discrepancies on what any player see, and what the server see (again, this is mitigated by using lag compensation techniques like prediction or "favoring" one of the sides, but this work only to a point).
In other words, there would still be "false hits" even if those hits were "soft", without counting how would you make the server differentiate between a "real hit" and a "false" one, as again, there is always 6 "photos" of the game at all times: What the clients (players) sees in their screen, and the simulation the server is doing.
So, yeah, you have your lag compensation as survivor, including your "biased validation" on some situations.
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@egg_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536459#Comment_3536459
I'm not sure if you're purposedly circling around the problem to avoid discussing it directly, but whilst "0 ping" doesn't exist in a multiplayer game, it is a fact that hit validation in DBD only occurs when a killer is getting stunned by a pallet. There is no hit validation when vaulting windows or pallets, or when predropping a pallet, which is why killers with higher ping get an advantage (hit validation on every case other than pallet stuns happens on the killer's end), as the survivors hitboxes on their screen don't match where the survivors actually are.
This is why people advocate for a functioning hit validation system, because this will bring killers with a better connection on par with killers with a worse connection. The video posted showcases killers (and survivors) with good connection where the survivor hitbox matches almost perfectly the pov of the survivor themselves
So again, it boils down to: "the server should decide, so the player with the best connection gets the advantage" because as of now, it is not fair
For reference, when I mentioned predropping pallets, I meant that situations like this can happen and they aren't even fairly uncommon:
In this case there is no validation involved because there was no stun involved since the killer was too far, but on the killer's screen the pallet hadn't even been dropped
"the server should decide, so the player with the best connection gets the advantage"
And here is where all your other points fall down. The server not just "decide" anything based on "the player with the best connection". I already did multiple post of how lag compensation on a dedicated server infrastructure works in more or less detail, so if you are interested, look through the forum or look it in google.
What I see there is an spike of lag or packets getting lost for any of those players. Again, lag compensation isn't perfect, it can only work effectively between a threshold of latency between players, but as long as the connections are stable and someone is not lagging like hell it compensates for the difference. Of course, what those lag compensation techniques do and how exactly work are on BHVR, but even if they implemented the best lag compensation in the market today, it would still do nothing on some situations. It's just how latency in gaming is, we can mitigate it's effects, but until we have some way of having "0 ping" (in other words, instant transmission of data) in every client it is how it is: Sometimes you would get hits that you shouldn't, other times you would get a free pass on hits that should have hit you.
Also, if I'm correct in assuming that they implemented the industry standard of "favoring the shooter" like in any action game, everytime you drop a pallet and stunt the killer you have the advantage on that hit (that's why sometimes, even if the killer have obviously hit you, you are able to drop the pallet anyway and viceversa, even when the killer clearly see that he has hit you it is stunned and you don't get hit).
In other words: You guys are talking either without understanding the base concepts of gaming networking or based on how the game worked when it was peer to peer when the game works now through dedicated servers.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531567#Comment_3531567
Have they released a killer that needs me to put effort in
learningpredict/guess how to go against it? Killers are OP, BHVR is babying them.there. Fixed it for you.
They remove a bugged feature that allowed survivors to break the game and be immune? BHVR is so killer sided, they don't want survivors to have fun.
I presume you are talking about "fast vaults". They were originally designed so, that if you finish the fast vault, you don't get hit behind the window - which didn't work and they tried to tackle it. They broke it, so the answer was to a, reintroduce this bug b, actually delete fast vaults from the game altogether. It makes very little sense now to try to fast vault in this patch as they are about as slow as mid vault (yes - they no longer take 0.5s as they should) - and a lot of killers already adjusted and go for hits that are just insane in hopes that new vaults will carry them. But it speaks volumes about you if you consider double-bugged (actually tripple-bugged - females still have shorter vault distance then males) survivor vaults fine and it being unreasonable for survivors to ask for a prompt fix.
You keep saying "predict/guess", but you also say Nemesis's whip is fair when the time difference of charging and attack time are centiseconds and people dodge both successfully. Logic not found.
They tried to fix a bug, introduced more bugs (I literally hit a window having an Ash at 1 meter that was just started to do a vault. He become invincible the moment he started to vault) but that doesn't matters, they reverted it because of killers, not because they were even more bugged than before.
But whatever you say, dude.
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@averagemikaelamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531501#Comment_3531501
They didnt fully transition to a dedicated server model and saying so is frankly misleading. They added some validation and used them as a medium to stabilize ping. Client is still almost the sole authority for killers in almost all cases.
You are wrong, as like I said, there is no reason to have a validation server if the clients are the ones processing all the data (ergo, the clients are doing the "validation"). I think you are confused with a "matchmaking server", needed even in a P2P infrastructure and like it's name make clear, it's sole reason of existence is allow matchmaking people in the same lobby. It doesn't does any kind of validation, it doesn't have any more authority than joining people to play together.
DbD uses a dedicated server infrastructure, and the client has almost not authority over the game these days (reason of no seeing as much hacking as before). But if you read the contrary anywhere, would be nice if you posted the source.
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@Steakdabait said:
They tried making the server unbiased and killers weren't happy with the tables being turned on them, so we're probably stuck with a killer biased servers till dbd dies
Maybe because almost all games out there right now doesn't have "unbiased servers" as again, every game uses some kind of lag compensation.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536850#Comment_3536850
I know how his tail works. I 4K with him a lot of games (sure, I loose some too - especially if I get people way out of my league where I would not stand a chance having any other killer).
Also if Nemesis holds his M2, he is slower (not counting T3 - but it's usually end of game when he gets it) unlike xeno. Also he can't M1 when he holds M2. Also Nemesis can't hit anyone crouching behind window unlike xeno. Also Nemesis can't (at minimum reliably) hit survivors ducking behind tall side of pallet if not angled properly. Also ..... There are so many things making Nemesis very fair in comparison to Xeno, that I don't even get why u would compare those 2
Xeno is also slower when firing the tail. Xeno can't M1 when he is using his tail or after miss (there was some talk about a bug that made him not having any cooldown, but that is already patched afaik). Nemy can hit crouched people behind a window if he is close enough to that window (in other words, if the hitbox of the whip don't hit the window first). Nemy can, again, hit survivors ducking behind the tall side of a pallet most of the time unless you try to drag from outside.
And again, there is so many thing making Nemy "fair" because you can't take away Nemy's whip. Simple as that.
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536856#Comment_3536856
Maybe it means we are again in a point of time where the only thing u can do against the power is pure prediction - where proportion between getting it wrong on killer's side is much more favorable then on survivor. That's like making all the pallets shack-level strong now and saying "that's fair - get good - here see clip where killer got that hit at shack so it is possible"
Maybe people just can do it reliably because they have learned, as people dodge Nemesis's whip. They aren't that far apart on charge and attack times, after all.
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Maybe you missed that it is not that impossible to do when two people are able to do it in the same game, plus that Nick in the other clip. Or there is a lot of mystic seers among us, or maybe he is just over analyzing that clip to make an exaggerated point.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536810#Comment_3536810
But Nemesis would be prime example where this would actually NOT work. Because Nemi needs to charge. Because Nemi does not have guaranteed hit on pallet (animation or leave - if he can drag down). So no. Nemi ABSOLUTELY does not count here. Not to mention he needs 3 hits while xeno.... Needs to M2 miss if survivors spend like 10+s setting something up....
Dude, Xeno tail isn't instant and it also need to charge, the difference is that Nemy can hold his whip charged and Xeno fires the moment it does, which is worst for aiming it. Nemy has a guaranteed hit on pallet if you know when and how throw that hit, even if they crouch, just like Xeno. So yes, Nemy absolutely counts here, like any other killer able to hold his power charged till the moment of firing.
In fact, again, that hit was harder to do with Xeno than with any other similar killer for that sole reason. And again, you can't take away the whip from Nemy.
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@quandale said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536828#Comment_3536828
The DH point is my way of showing you you how entitled you are. You only agree with a nerf if its on your terms.
I didn't agree with anything, what I said is that I would answer you if you explain to me why we can compare both of those things equally without it being a false equivalence fallacy. And sure, there is someone showing his entitlement here, but sorry to say that it is not me.
And with this said, I don't have anything more to add to this conversation unless you answer my question. So, until then, have a nice day.
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@quandale said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536813#Comment_3536813
I think you are honestly the definition of entitled killer main haha. I think you should try playing more survivor in solo queue, then decide.
And I think that you are honestly avoiding to answer anything of what I said because you know you can't. But it is funny that you said that, as I spent all the last night farming BP as SoloQ survivor and did 2 escapes against the Xenomorph. The 3º time I encountered it he destroyed us, tho. And I have to say, I'm a total noob as survivor, I need to start using a controller and learn how to properly loop certain maps, man.
So, the only thing I could say to this is that maybe you need to start looking at a mirror before saying things like that.
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@quandale said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536810#Comment_3536810
The nerf everyone has been hoping for isn't really about the m2 - its about removing his ability to m1 while in crawler mode. This could be having xenos choose when they want to enter crawler mode - provided they still have the full passive ability charged.
And if you are going to use the point that it takes skill to dodge and it shouldn't have to be charged - do you agree that DH should of stayed how it was back in 2020?
And I'm going to guess that turrets would be out of the game too, right? As there won't be any reason for survivors to take away his power when is that cumbersome to use and is in a disadvantage position, as now he would lose in close quarters as the tail is harder to aim there.
And if you are able to explain to me what dodging the tail attack from the Xenomorph have in common with "dodging" a survivor using DH, maybe I entertain that fallacy and answer you.
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@quandale said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536790#Comment_3536790
Haha, it answers everything in your comment - but no problem.
You asked: how would charging the attack make it easier? You would be able to dodge flicks like that or have warnings of such.
You also said: there's people who have no issue dodging - and I didn't address this in my recent comment as my first got deleted for some reason. However, yes I am very aware this is possible - I myself can dodge xenomorphs which are playing casually and very new to the killer or unaware of mechanics such as the linked clip; this is not difficult. However, in the clip I linked it clearly shows a semi-experienced xenomorph is able to do such attacks with no visual warning and assuming the tail will not hit.
Also addressed in the previously mentioned deleted comment was a comment on the fact that the "baby killers" remark was me getting carried away on a rant about dbd as a whole. The game has taken a turn for the worse - especially for high playtime players as they have worked hours on the game to learn certain (intended) skills (NOT BUGS - such as window teching) for them to be removed/nerfed due to killers complaining about things which killers that have put the effort in can learn to play against. However the baby killers with up to 1-2 thousand hours don't understand these skills and so BHVR has acted on their complaints. I understand how frustrating this would be for BHVR as they change one thing to please one group and the other has instant backlash and hate toward BHVR. However, they need to start viewing the whole picture rather than seeing one group say this and not seeing the other sides POV.
Dude, do you realize that you would not be able to dodge flicks like that if the killer can hold the attack if you can't dodge them right now, right? As the flicks would be even worst? Let's get Nemesis for example, it has an audio cue when I prepare the whip, but you don't have almost any warning when I fire the actual attack. So, I can hold my whip, wait for you to get to a side, and hit you anyway.
You can't do that with the Xenomorph, as the moment you press M2 the attack would make the sound, would start the animation, and then would fire, allowing you to know exactly when the attack is coming. In fact, with practice you could get the muscle memory for timing the dodge. It's absurd, completely absurd, saying otherwise.
And the rest of the things you said, again: Ironic and funny, taking in count you rest of points and arguments, and even more taking in count the number of nerfs killer have had in the last times including the destruction of regression perks. But you do you, I keep saying is something that has nothing to do with what it is being discussed.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536412#Comment_3536412
Check the last 3-5s of that clip. See that survivor successfully mindgamed killer (by not going for that pallet) when killer 100% anticipated it for easy down... And yet, xeno is so strong, that you can just adjust your aim DURING WHOLE TIME you press M2 - so there's no escape. Loose (drop pallet), or loose (continue to run away) or loose (stay on a spot with hope killer will be 100% sure you will go for that pallet). This is actually the thing everyone was talking about.
This is the only killer, that can loose strong mindgame and still win the chase. Just disgusting design
Also - what other killer would have been able to get that down in RPD Leon's office? Not even slinger could (even if he hit, it would have been deep wound) - and this interaction and loops like this are actually VERY common on all maps
You can't be serious, dude... really? If that was me with Nemesis, I would hold the whip until I was sure to hit him, and even if I didn't hold, released the attack and missed I most than probably would hit him anyway with the bigger dragging time his whip has.
If the Xenomorph didn't miss, then it didn't loose the mindgame. He started doing the attack, realized the survivors wasn't going for the pallet, and had the reflexes to turn before the attack launched. And any other killer would be able to do that with the calm and security of not throwing the attack unless they want to. Come on!
And if you meant the hit where he doesn't even see the survivor, I'm more surprised that he even knew where he was. And with a pallet dropped and the Xenomorph in cooldown, what that survivor needed to do is get out of there instead of staying. Is what I said in my other post, people get confident in loops without realizing the Xeno can hit through them.
But you are right, just a few killer would be able to get that hit, and that's why you can't play against the Xenomorph like it is any other killer. And if it still a problem, then I guess a nerf to the vertical dragging of the attack wouldn't be that bad. But yet again, like no many other killers out there, we have to remember that survivors can completely remove his power. So, if he is able to use that much his power, is on you.
And come on, getting to the point of argue that being able to control when you attack is not better than had it automatically fire just because you wan't the killer nerfed to the ground is ridiculous.
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@quandale said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536412#Comment_3536412
Once xeno's become somewhat skilled with even as little as 10 hours, this:
Not to mention, the audio cue is irrelevant when any other sound is occurring due to the low volume - and the visual cue lasts about half a second. This is the definition of killers complaining due to their own struggle. Survivors have been nerfed to the point extremely high PT individuals and content creators don't even want to play the game as much anymore - this needs to be rectified too as the content creators are a HUGE part of DBD's advertisement and drive to play.
I'm going to be sincere, I don't even know what you mean with that or how is an answer / response to anything I said. Can you express yourself a little better, please?
EDIT: Alright, your message was incomplete! I still don't know what you meant with you first sentence, but anyway.
About the audio cue, that happens with any other sound in the game, including steps and grunts of injured survivors and even more in maps like the Red Forest where there is so much ambient sounds. At first I believed what people said that it was too low, but after playing attention to it it isn't, you can hear it if you listen. But if that's the complain, make the audio cue be louder, I don't care.
And about the other things you have said, again, I don't know what it has to do with anything being talked, much less how changing the attack to be hold instead of instant fired after 2 seconds would make it need more skill. Unless what you are saying is that in the end the only reason for nerfing the Xenomorph is because "Killers are OP" and you don't even want to try to get good against him, of course.