Batusalen
Batusalen
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536459#Comment_3536459
whatever ,not going even gonna try , you just gonna excuse everything by the sake of keeping things unfair just because you dont know how the game used to work at lower latencies or maybe you are a player that always plays on higher latencies , maybe that why you think vaults should be this generous for killer, which i understand survivor is busted right now with the MFT meta still , but keeping vaults in a terrible and really weaker spot shouldnt be a thing to balance things around + it makes killer really easier reducing the skill cap of looping , soo yeah , WHATEVER moving on.
high ping killers be like:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0UEV55T58E5D/xe3o9w4qk7l31.jpg
I got you barely by touching 1 pixel of your hitbox so it must connect. *hits the air*
(Ihey literally got the hit from miles away after the survivor finished the vault)Wanting to be able to hit the survivor as long as it is in my range attack through an open space = Not wanting things fair, as survivors should become immune because they don't like getting hits that they don't want. Got it, makes sense.
Nice talking with you.
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@notyarbllewe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536499#Comment_3536499
I feel getting a Deep Wound would at least feel better than getting downed for a false hit. Yeah, it'd be hard for the server to actually confirm it, but if it could work, it'd be a bit fairer for the survivors facing laggy killers.
But it couldn't, that's the thing. And it couldn't, as it would still have the same problems than with normal hits.
Imagine I give you a photo done 50 seconds ago of me just behind a survivor. In those 50 seconds I didn't move, but the survivor did. The thing is, you don't know that, the only info you have is that photo. Did I hit the survivor, or have him gained enough distance to avoid the attack?
Now imagine the contrary, you have a photo of me starting a lung attack and the survivor is far from me so I won't be able to hit him, but since that photo was taken the survivor walked to me so I would be able to hit him. Again, did I hit him with the info you had?
Now, change 50 seconds to 50 milliseconds and that's what is happening in the server. So, even with both players having a "low latency" connection, there would be discrepancies on what any player see, and what the server see (again, this is mitigated by using lag compensation techniques like prediction or "favoring" one of the sides, but this work only to a point).
In other words, there would still be "false hits" even if those hits were "soft", without counting how would you make the server differentiate between a "real hit" and a "false" one, as again, there is always 6 "photos" of the game at all times: What the clients (players) sees in their screen, and the simulation the server is doing.
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It can't be done for the simple reason that not even the server know your real current position, not the killer or the survivor, as whether we like it or not there is always a delay of the packets sent to and from the server. In other words, not even the server see the same game that the killer or the survivor is seeing in any moment.
The server compensate this applying different kinds of lag compensation techniques, so the simulation is as close and fair as it can be (even tho, this techniques and their implementation depends on BHVR), but those techniques compensate to a point.
In other words, doing that would not be feasible as it would not resolve anything, as you would still get "soft hits" even if in your screen you shouldn't got hit at all, and the killer would miss hits that should be at least soft hits.
So again: It would solve nothing. Just BHVR spending time and money on developing something like this, and more server maintenance costs for them as now the server has to process even more data.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536118#Comment_3536118
After they figure out a killer has the perk, for the rest of the game, they will try to dodge the perk by hiding in a locker if they are injured and someone is about to get hooked.
And if a killer hooks a survivor, and doesn’t see an aura because the perk got dodged, then that killer is encouraged to just camp the hooked survivor, because they have zero help in finding a different target to chase.
And survivors hiding can bring them massive value, even if it means they aren’t constantly repairing generators.
My Entity, what doesn't encourage camping in this day according to this forum?
If that is a problem pair it with other information perk and problem solved. I pair it with Ultimate Weapon in the own Xenomorph for the moments where everyone else is healthy and it works wonders for me.
So, I still don't agree with you, I think the perk is fine and useful, but everyone has it's own way of playing and opinion so fair enough.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535971#Comment_3535971
how many times am gonna say this , this is at LOW PING , and thats how vaults should work across all type of pings , if you have a ping over 60 ms , thats bad ping to modern standards , like thats why people already want validation on windows and pallets ; killers with over 60+ ping get validated pretty little compared to killers with good connections , and that shouldnt be the case ; Not to mention that the server consider GOOD PING any value below 100 ms , if you as killer have higher ping you should get punished with hits getting rejected or validated like currently pallets work if the survivor has better ping than you , they should get priority over you instead of viceversa
(high ping killers need more punishments than low ping killers honestly is getting absurd how often you get rewarded by lag).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n78fMS5JHY
Been playing this game for over 5 years already , yeah is not like we dont have evidence about how fast vaults used to work right? yeah..............right.........🙄
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NselkGExoQA?feature=share
you can pretty much see how much of a difference there is compared to a medium vault - distance momentun.
First of all, "0 ping" don't exist in a multiplayer game unless it is peer 2 peer and you are the host of the game, or you are running the server in your computer. Even in a LAN, with two computers one besides the other, you don't have "0 ping".
Second, fast internet speed has little to do with your ping. There is a lot of factors that can affect the latency you have (stability of the connection, distance to the server, being connected with cable or WiFi, and even the RJ45 cable you are using).
So, what that video shows is a lot of missed hits, that has nothing to do with how much latency the killer had, unlike the first gif you posted where it is obviously a hit that didn't happen because the lag of the survivor and / or how hitboxes worked in the day.
And yes, you have evidence of how they used to work. Now, show me your official source that says that's how they should work. Because again, not even in the official wiki there is any mention of fast vaulting giving you any more distance than the other vaults, much less it being more than enough for you to be out of reach, and even less that you can't be hit during or after it. They allow you to vault faster, maintain your momentum, and probably it would also give you some advantage by changing the hitbox so it is harder to hit you while doing the vault.
The funny thing is that I'm not even against the fast vault giving you more distance or saying that is not how it should be, but again, it is an open and unobstructed space and if you are inside my attack reach, whatever is during the vault or after it, you should be hit. Simple as that.
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@quandale said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536092#Comment_3536092
This would still be better than the current version of xeno. Huntress can wait and mindgame, but this requires skill. DBD is slowly turning into a game that requires little to no skill with the killers released.
For example, Wesker is an extremely OP killer, however this is balanced as 1. you can see him charge up his attack and 2. he requires TIME and SKILL to learn how to efficiently use his power.
BHVR has recently been nerfing many perks and removing the aspects of DBD that require skill. E.g. hook grabs - killers no longer have to wait and understand if they wait they can get an easy down, and survivors no longer have to work together and fake the saves etc. This removes the ENJOYABLE aspects. Baby killers/survivors need to quit complaining and put in the hours to learn the skills required rather than making it less fun and less difficult for others. I understand it isn't fun to learn these skills at first - but for skilled survivors/killers the difficulty of chases and perks such as dead hard are fun (most times). Most recent buffs/nerfs are based on the assumption you are playing against a SWF too, making the game unplayable for lots of solo q survivors.
Can you explain how having more time to aim and be able to wait for the survivor to move before launching a fast attack that has a sound cue and animation warning require more skill than pushing the button and having to stick with it even if you screw up?
Also, I have played as and against the alien, and there is people that don't have any problem in dodging the attack and / or using the turrets correctly to remove it:
https://imgur.com/a/H0srkRQ#b7AXxyDSo I'm sorry, but you saying that "Baby killers/survivors need to quit complaining" is both ironic and funny.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3536103#Comment_3536103
The oblivious effect makes the perk worse, because it alerts survivors that you have this perk, so they are more likely to just hide in a locker to avoid the aura reading.
And for what reason they would hide in a locker after you already read their aura and their location is revealed? I mean, we can argue that it could give you Undetectable instead of Oblivious to the survivors so it conserve it's "surprise factor", but I don't see people reacting fast enough to the status effect for them to hide before the perk do it's work.
And if you mean before you hook somebody, every injured survivor getting to a locker, not healing, not doing gens, until 5 seconds have passed since you hooked someone seems like a good distraction to me.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
I highly doubt this is feasible.
And with reason: It is not.
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I thought the same, until I realized that the reason to use it is that if the furthest injured survivor is at 10 meters it would show you his aura while BBQ & Chilli would not. Also, it inflict the Oblivious effect for 20 seconds.
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@poinepp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3534639#Comment_3534639
agree, nothing wrong with what you are saying but i think it would be more healthy if he actually needed to hold his tail thats how we could acutally properly react it
It would be harder to react and dodge if it was able to hold his tail, as the killer would be able to mindgame it and wait for you to pick a side to dodge before attacking just like you can do with Nemesis.
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¿Qué entendemos por "excelente internet"? Porque tener mucha velocidad no implica tener una buena conexión. Sin contar las cosas que escapan de tu control (la estabilidad de la conexión, distancia al servidor, etc.) estar conectado por WiFi o incluso el cable que estés usando puede influir en la latencia.
Si estas a dos pasos de la ventana y el asesino justo al otro lado, puede golpearte igualmente. Es una venta, al fin y al cabo. Y los dos asesinos que has mencionado tienen ataques a distancia, así que, ¿de que golpes estamos hablando, ataques básicos o sus poderes? Si son sus poderes, obviamente pueden golpearte de lejos. Si son los básicos, viendo que tienes un ping alto puede ser debido al lag.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3535391#Comment_3535391
so far they dont , as killer I still can hit them after they fully finished the animation it looks like they vault further than females because their model is bigger visually in reality they dont vault any further it just visual , their hitbox is still at hit range after fully fast vaulting their capsule hitbox is still ends closer to the windows but their visual model is slightly further compared to females
I ALREADY DID A TEST WITH FRIENDS AND YEP IS JUST THE SAME AS BS AS FEMALES NO DIFFERENCE
both male and female are vaulting the same distance but the thing is that males do look like they vault further because they have bigger models and they look like they land forward but thats a lie , trust me , just play test this , they both can be hit in the window in the exact same way.
Even after a dev confirmed that your first gif was not how vaults should work, it seems like you still have the misconception that the vaults "aren't working as intended" because the killer can hit you during or after it.
As far as official information goes, fast vaults allows you to vault in 0.5 seconds in comparation with 0.9 for medium and 1.5 for slow and allows you to maintain your momentum after vaulting. They were never intended to make you immune to damage during the vault or make you gain so much distance that you are out of the attack range automatically when the animation finish.
The only sources that says the contrary (at least the ones I found) are other survivors claiming it. Not even the wiki mention anything about fast vaulting making you gain any distance in comparation with the other vault types.
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@Mooks said:
No.
not every PC player is a cheater, there are plenty of people that play with their friends between PC and consoles and cheaters can - if they want to - already circumvent it anyways and play against console players that have crossplay disabled.
instead, they should focus on trying to make reporting even more accessible, and implement automatic cheat detection (that shouldn’t be too strict bc of possible glitches and bugs of course). Hopefully they find a way to still create/save a recording on reports on their servers even though they stated it’s not possible with the current framework and would need a complete restructuring of the code..
One feature they should add is a "replay mode", so you can rewatch matches in every angle and such. It would help to better identify and record cheaters after the match, apart of all the other advantages of having a replay function (learning, machinima, etc.).
Also, more than "automatic", they should add their own cheat detection and not rely on EAC only for multiple reasons.
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Over the past five years, Behaviour Interactive added many new features to Dead by Daylight as it expands in popularity. One feature that had mixed reviews from veteran players was crossplay capability, which allows players on different platforms to play together in the same match. Since not everyone wanted to join matches with players on […]
There you go. Enjoy your queue times!
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
Pain resonance is fine, that's still really good perk.
Ruin could just get increased regression. Removal on dying is not so bad, because it gives survivors a chance if they didn't manage to find it, but that's on them most of the times.
Ruin was over-nerfed for sure.
Ruin should not be an hex perk at this point. If it already has a deactivation condition, I don't know why survivors still have the option to deactivate it by themselves even before it can have any value. Either maintain it as an hex perk and remove the other condition, or vice versa.
And PR is a good perk when RNGesus smiles at you. If you are at the game and all scourge hooks spawn in the same corner of the map in both floors, it's an awful perk. But that's more an "Scourge Hook" problem than a PR problem, so it would be nice if BHVR somewhat revised the SH spawning.
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Sorry, but this is the less fitting franchise to be asked to be in DbD since someone asked for Naruto skins.
I love anime (even if RWBY isn't exactly anime), but come on, it has no place in a game like DbD.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533519#Comment_3533519
It's like you guys both read and don't read at the same time. You are still arguing something I didn't say.
Swap from playing the killer to playing against the killer and come back with some better opinions.
Sorry to inform you that I already did. In fact, I played against him before even playing as him, and I stand by everything I said.
And what you said: "It's easier to hit than most of the aimed M2s in the game, and it has little to no CD, and no reload. It is forgiving compared to the other forms of M2s in the game. The most forgiving."
What I said: It's not either one of the most easiest to aim (ergo, the easiest to land a hit as it's the same thing), not the most forgiving as it has a 3 second cooldown, so the "no CD and no reload" part is not even true. In fact, I'm pretty sure that his cooldown is even more if you hit anything that isn't a survivor.
I don't see where the contradiction is.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533383#Comment_3533383
I have explained above, there are two ways they could go. But having the turrets be both weak and not really affect the killer when they do work. Is not it. The killer is clearly overtuned, would you rather they nerf the tail attack or make the turrets useful?
As you can see in the video I posted, you are wrong. They take your power away an put the Alien in a situation where he has to chose between destroying the turret and giving you time to get distance, or continue the chase but lose his power. When survivors use them correctly, that is.
@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533389#Comment_3533389
I didn't say it was the easiest to aim/hit, I said it was the most forgiving when it comes to how easy it is to land a hit. It's cooldown/slowdown does not warrant how easy it is to use.
I am a big fan of nemesis, he is probably my favorite killer. But, idk why you would want to play him over Xeno right now. He is just a far weaker version of her. I am not playing her because I am not a huge fan of doing things that are broken. I avoided using Dead hard when it was strong. I don't even currently use MFT.
And I'm telling you that it's not one of the easiest powers to aim of their kind as you have a short window before the attack goes out automatically, followed by a 3 second cooldown. So again, you are wrong and I presented video evidence of it.
Also, I don't agree, Nemesis and Xenomorph have a similar power and that's about it. Nemesis being able to break pallets with his whip makes him better in loops than Xenomorph. The thing is, in the current survivor meta you need a killer with chase power, that's why Xenomorph is "better" right now, and not even thanks to his tail attack either.
So in any case, Nemesis need a buff (maybe the Infection doing something apart of giving yet another free hit to survivors and occasionally hearing a cough) and not the reverse.
@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533431#Comment_3533431
I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to read on these forums. It's CD and slowdown do not match its difficulty to use.
True, what its slowdown match is the easy counter that allow survivor to take away that power for a long time. Like I said in another post, if you make his power a burden to use while making more easy for survivors to take it away, what we would have is another Singularity case. So, 3 second CD and 50% slowdown on miss is more than enough.
In short: You are wrong. Learn to use the turrets as survivor and play a couple of days like him and you would see it by yourself.
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https://imgur.com/a/H0srkRQ@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533321#Comment_3533321
It's easier to hit than most of the aimed M2s in the game, and it has little to no CD, and no reload. It is forgiving compared to the other forms of M2s in the game. The most forgiving.
If the Alien is broken out of her power using a turret, I think her burrow should also get a decent cool down. If turrets aren't going to be buffed. If they buff turrets to actually work then you can keep the current form.
The problem is you need to put the turret in a spot with plenty of open space, which usually means walking a good distance away from where you picked it up. A lot of maps don't even have enough room to make the turrets work. So you end up spending more time setting the turrets up, than you get from actually using the turrets.
I have already played against some Xenos that just sit in the burrow near the hook and they have plenty of time to come out and get a free trade.
As a Nemesis main I can say: You are so wrong. It is not easier to aim for the sole reason that you can't hold it to mindgame a dodge and wait what side the survivor is going to move like Nemesis's whip. And yes, it has a lot of cooldown, as you can see there.
It is pretty clear to me that you don't even try to play as the Alien before talking, and that what you want is not having to put any thought in how you play and be able to counter the killer with ease. There is not other explanation for the things you are saying.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3533303#Comment_3533303
The turrets are a bait in the current form, not only do they not work 80% of the time. They only buy you 5 seconds.
Again, because you don't know how to use them. And before was that they didn't work, now that it is obvious it is you who don't know how to place them, the problem is they "only" buy you 5 seconds...
It seems that unless they nerf them to the point of being another EMP that allows you to totally nullify the killer with the press of a button you won't be happy about them.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530979#Comment_3530979
I am learning quickly that the turrets are actually a huge waste of time. I am running a full tool box build and just trying to rush gens and ignoring the turrets. Got my first 4 man escape against her today.
That only proves that:
- You don't know how to use the turrets in an effective way.
- Genrushing is still a problem.
I had games where survivors dodged the tail without problem and they used the turrets in a way that I have to chose to give the survivor I'm chasing an advantage or I'll lose my power. So, it's on you.
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@Gandor said:
This clip just shows you can't use the ability effectively yet. You are trying to directly hit over obstacles (and miss fair share of those of course - that's hard). If you were dragging cursor down, all those misses would be easy hits.
Also people complain that his CD is too short - but technically this is wrong. 3s are indeed long time. What people don't realize is, that the problem is, that xeno can very quickly follow you because of 50% speed during miss CD = you are not really punished for missing hit
Those clips are literally my second day with him, maybe game number 5-6 (I didn't count them), and I'm testing angles and in what loops I can get away with hitting with his attack. That doesn't change the fact that in this second day I already have seen people dodging it successfully and using turrets in an effective way, in contrast with my first day where it was basically free hits as they always got the turrets in places that was easy for me to destroy or avoid while in chase.
And about the 50% speed, I would agree if it wasn't because you can literally take his power away. If your power can be taken away and it is a complete burden to use it when you got it, we would be closer to another Singularity case.
I'm not even saying he doesn't need changes (maybe make the audio cue more obvious so people can hear it easily), but people wants to nerf it before even having the chance to really learn how to play as / against it, and in a couple of weeks more good survivors would be making the Alien sweat to get hits with his tail as they make Nemesis have to work to get his hits with the whip.
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After a couples of days playing Alien, I can say that people are starting to learn not just how to avoid the tail attack effectively, but how to position the turrets so they would do what they are meant to do: Make Alien having to chose between destroying the turret and giving you a chance to get away, or lose his power while chasing you.
Some people still need to realize that because how the tail attack work the killer is able to do hits over more loops that Nemesis would be able to do, so they get overconfident thinking they are safe (specially if you fail a couple of attacks) and they end getting hit by it. Also, for the people that really thinks there is no "punishment" for failing the attack, just see the cooldown it has, and we have to take in count that you can't hold your attack to aim / mindgame like Nemesis can do with his whip.
https://imgur.com/a/H0srkRQSo, who would have thought that instead of just nerfing the killer after not even a week have passed people just needed to learn how to play against it! Or in other words: There shouldn't have been any talk about any changes so soon.
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@JudithMorel said:
im convinced the devs are killer mains after this monstrosity of a chapter.
That's what every survivor says everytime they does something that isn't 100% a buff or advantage to survivors, whatever it is or the reason behind it.
Have they released a killer that needs me to put effort in learning how to go against it? Killers are OP, BHVR is babying them.
They remove a bugged feature that allowed survivors to break the game and be immune? BHVR is so killer sided, they don't want survivors to have fun.
They introduce something to the game that is an obvious advantage to survivors? You are doing a great job, BHVR! The game is fun again, perfectly balanced now. Killers that don't like it are babies and just need to git gud!
Come on...
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@quentins_beanie said:
all this talk about hit validation, ping and whatnot when the actual problem is fast vaults not giving any distance from the window lmao
Here you have the conclusion to that problem:
@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530089#Comment_3530089
Yeah... have you seen the reaction of the killer there because he should have hit you? That's the reason of why you should be hit if you are still in range.
Also, I'm going to bet that gif is from the time were the game was still P2P and lagging was even more of a problem that it is right now.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530137#Comment_3530137
You are simply nuts, starting with that being almost 4 meters of jump and almost 5 meters for male (if you pay close attention, the fence over the wall have 16 bars coming from the center of the pillar, and if the wall is 8 meters then 2 bars means 1 meter). Are survivors able to fly now, apart of being olympic runners thanks to haste perks?
Also, besides from the fast vault being significantly faster than a slow or medium vault (0.5 seconds to complete vs 0.9 / 1.5 seconds, respectively) there is no mention anywhere of a "minimum distance" for the vault, much less that it guarantees you enough distance to being out of the reach of the killer.
What the momentum means is that first, you need a minimum distance running to reach the enough momentum to do a fast vault, as not survivor or the killer accelerates to their maximum speed instantly afaik (in fact, lounge attack distance is also affected by momentum, meaning that if I walk for a couple of seconds before doing it it would reach further). That, and on patch 2.5.0 they implemented this:
- Survivor Quality of Life: Survivors now retain their momentum after Vaulting, instead of it being reset to 0 as previously.
And what that means is that you will maintain your speed the moment you finish any of the vaults, so if you have maximum speed when vaulting (AKA fast vault) you would have instantly max speed when you are at the other side, so it will be more easy for you to get out of reach in conjunction with the fast vault only taking 0.5 seconds to complete. Again, it has nothing to do with vaulting distance.
In conclusion, fast vaulting never had anything to do with gaining a lot of distance or making you unable to get hit, but giving you the chance to get away faster without guaranteeing your safety, as it is logical and is how it has to be. Taking this in count, if they add distance to fast vaults for both male and females (for consistency and Trapper reasons) it should look something like this:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SJBOQ4YHV5YO/attackconesvault.jpg
1.5 meters of jump made in 0.5 seconds and max speed on finish that also count haste effects so you have more than enough time to get out of there. And if you don't, then maybe you should have go for a pallet as I was literally breathing on your neck. Powerful, but fair, not going flying to the other side of the map through the window because you don't like to get hit.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531501#Comment_3531501
There's a difference between validation server and dedicated server. Dedicated server is something that takes input and calculates state of the world and sends authoritative state to all the clients in game. Validation servers does less - it just checks timestamps and selected actions (check drop-pallet timestamp vs hit timestamp) - when comparing those, send authoritative action to all clients.
Validation servers are much simpler and has much less control over the game - even though they DO have some control.
As for your P2P - you are right that killer was server ergo 0 ping. But in case of "favor the shooter" (which is same as "favor the server truth") - what you saw from killer's perspective was ALWAYS desired behavior (because 0 lag). You could see some funky things from survivor's perspective, but killer hitting on window and not getting hit was intended interaction (minus specific bug - but now we are not talking about networking).
In case of dropping pallet - then you could be right. Because in this case "favor the shooter" is survivor dropping said pallet. But that absolutely does nothing when survivor is vaulting the window or when killer is trying to hit survivor (and it does not matter if he tries to hit him next to pallet or not). Also it's basically counterproductive for survivor too - because what does it matter that you get stun, if you get hit as well (apart from having one less pallet)?
DUDE, if you have a dedicated server running the match, why would you have another server validating anything? And if your game runs in a P2P infrastructure, that means that you don't have any server validating anything in the first place as every client would be doing it's own validation! What the hell are you on about? There is no "validation server" in a gaming infrastructure, the server side of the game is doing the validation! What you are saying doesn't-makes-any-sense.
And lag compensation and favor the shooter is done in a dedicated server infrastructure. The game, when it was P2P, didn't have any lag compensation as far as we know because again, there wasn't any server synchronizing the game! The host was the "server", simply relaying the info sent to him from one of the clients to the other clients, and was those client's work to validate whatever happened to the game. You are mixing up the things said to try to have a point to make, and you are failing.
And about the pallets, sadly, we can't have a 0 ping connection between clients (not even in a LAN, where you have your PC just besides another, you have a 0 ping connection) so no matter how much we wish to reduce the problems caused by lag, it's impossible to avoid them completely. In a perfect world we would have quantum entangled devices that allowed us to have instant transmission of data and every player would see exactly what is happening in real time. But we don't, so, the "favor the shooter" technique has become the standard in the industry because is the best option to prevent situations like the gif that @MB666 posted or the killer being able to kill you through a pallet as much as possible.
It is the perfect solution that always do the correct thing? No, but it is better than if there wasn't any lag compensation at all as back in the day.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3531446#Comment_3531446
DBD is built as P2P game. And it does not work the way most games are made. Most games send what player is doing and let server decide. DBD sends what player saw that happened. That is the easiest reason why you very simply create cheats of people instantly hooking or escaping from trial or why you can literally still get hit even after you move several steps after you completed vault if killer's ping is exceptionally bad (and no solution from your links would allow THIS BAD interactions).
The reason why you now sometimes don't get hit (even if you see blood) at pallets and get hit instead was inclusion of validation servers. That was good step forward, but it very much shows that validation servers are afterthought and that things that come to server are still "what player sees" instead of "what player does" (+ letting server decide what to do with it).
Also "favor the shooter" is absolutely horrendous strategy in case of DBD. Because lags favor "shooter" 2 times. The game is about reaction so if killer has bad ping, survivor has less time to react to killer (because he sees what he does later) AND get hit even if he gets to safety. All those FPS tactics and networking libraries were designed to minimize feeling of unfairness as much as humanly possible. That means you should absolutely not reward someone (twice) for having bad ping.
So you saying players had free escapes in case of P2P makes absolutely no sense (as pure P2P means killers sees hit so it's hit even if everyone else involved in game see that survivor 50m away from that spot). In those time lagswitch meant you could hit anyone any time just by disabling your net for a few seconds (but short enough to not get DC)
Dude, I would only say that DbD changed to a dedicated server infrastructure years ago. They still left some authority to the client side, and that's why they were able to create those hacks, but as far as I know they have already changed a lot of it too and that's why we don't see as much hackers (or at least, as much hacking such as insta finish the game) as before. Also, "validation server"? Do you mean that the dedicated server that is running the game validate player input as any other game server does? Because if not, that term is incorrect in this context and makes me think that you have some base on networking, but not applied to gaming.
It makes all the sense in the world that survivors got free escapes because of their lag when the game was still P2P as the killer was the host of the game, ergo, the killer didn't had any lag as he was the middle point for the rest of players.
And of course, "Favor the shooter" is absolutely fine for a game like DbD as any action game is about reaction and other games are doing fine with those lag compensation techniques and ways. I won't argue that maybe BHVR needs to tune up it so it handles better high lag situations, but again, it's an industry standard for games like DbD to work this way.
So, yeah... keep on going if you want, but you are wrong.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530575#Comment_3530575
They specifically started with this challenge at their current MMR without any preparation. It's not like they played 1000 games and picked 10-game window to say "this is the result of my streak".... If it's so consistent across multiple (admittedly VERY VERY VERY good players) - then that actually does prove, that even in high MMR you can win most of the games with even basic killer without using ability/camp/tunnel/slug/addons.
Does it mean it's realistic to expect from everyone and that the game should be balanced around it? Hell no. Those players are insanely good. You can't benchmark from best players on one side and consider it norm. But saying 90% of the killer roster unviable is just wrong (see you are even allowed to use ability/addons/all the tactics in the world) and this video is actually very good proof why.
Or to say it in another way - if you personally can't win with weaker killer in high mmr, that's skill issue (and that is OK - I can say the same thing about me - I would definitely struggle with pig or legion or trapper in high MMR - but that's skill issue on my part).
Dude, your logic isn't as good as you think and you are agreeing with me. One guy being able to win 9/10 with an unviable killer doesn't makes that killer viable. And right now, any killer without a chasing power is not viable. So, again, sorry if the arbitrary percentage I used wasn't factual and precise, but that doesn't change the fact that most of the roster can't compete and that's why you see always the same killers the moment you go up in the MMR.
But again, I have nothing more to say, so I would leave it with that.
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@Gandor said:
The first link you posted is exactly what I WAS TALKING ABOUT - with 1 simple caveat - it does not compare to what server sees right now, but instead what server thinks you saw when you were doing action (plus it's also talking about optimistic updates + server being authority that can invalidate you - btw that's also what is being explained in video you included).
Read the link you actually posted.
As for the video - they themselves talk about favoring the shooter until something interesting happens (like using ability and so on) - so in case DBD adopted same thing - you get reliable hits so long as survivor does not vault window or drop pallet or does something like that - and in case he does something like this - it's reverted back to what the client (meaning survivor) did instead of what killer saw + even "favor the shooter" is limited in time so that you can't abuse very high ping.
So again - watch the video you link yourself.
Still - thanks for the link. Apparently things did change from the time I was interested in netcode and server-state is no longer THE king in every single possible situation.
Dude, the only thing you said there is how the client-server infrastructure works while I and the links was talking about the lag compensation techniques for action games used today in such infrastructure. It isn't something new, either. If you check the Valve one you would see that the article is from 2001.
And yes, assuming that DbD lag compensation also "favor the shooter" as everybody says (which is logical, as it is what any multiplayer and action game does to compensate lag) and have some kind of prediction method, that's why sometimes the killer is able to hit a survivor just before dropping a pallet or why even if you should have hit that survivor you don't, and get pallet dropped instead.
This doesn't change the fact that vaults never was intended to give you immunity to hits even at the other side, as again, you are still in range of the killer attack hitbox through and unblocked and open space. And the only reason of why some players that had played in the old times thinks otherwise, was because they were getting free saves because of the lag when the game was still P2P and even now days it still happen from time to time. That's the reason of getting hit now in a vault and think it is a "bs hit", just as the "new fast vault" being bugged (we don't know if because lag compensation or something related with hitboxes, but bugged after all) and believing that is how vaults should work.
Anyway, glad that you learned something new today.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530659#Comment_3530659
This is total BS and no FPS (or even moba) that is remotely popular/big works this way. Any reasonable game uses server as the sole authority.
You send packets of what you are doung (shooting at direction X) and the server sends info to targeted player "you got hit", because server decides if you were shooting in the air or at the target.
This way if you have bad ping, you suffer all the time. If you have good ping, you have advantage, because you see more correctly where your enemy actually is + your actions get executed quicker - which means you are less likely to target place where there's nobody any more (and if you have perfect ping, you never ever get hit behind the corner - you can only get shot behind the corner if you have bad ping and the info that you are going behind the corner arrives at server too late = server will say you are not behind the corner).
I have no idea where you even came up with your idea of networking. That could indeed work only in p2p games, but they will always suffer from cheaters and bs hits - because without server authority it's super-hard to address cheating (I am not saying there's no cheating with servers, but it's much easier to address them when you have servers)
https://www.linkedin.com/advice/3/how-do-you-implement-lag-compensation-prediction
By downloading any item(s) listed above, you acknowledge that you have read and understood the copyright undertaking as stated above, and agree to be bound by all of its terms.
https://youtu.be/vTH2ZPgYujQDesigning first-person action games for Internet play is a challenging process. Having robust on-line gameplay in your action title, however, is becoming essential to the success and longevity of the title. In addition, the PC space is well known for requiring developers to support a wide variety of customer setups. Often, customers are running on less than state-of-the-art hardware.Not even 5 minutes to search in Google. That's all that you needed to do instead of posting that.
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Knowing BHVR what we would probably get is another nerf to Pig, for the old times. We all know she deserves it.
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@NAERUUU said:
Wow, thats mean players now have to use their memory and braincells instead of just eyes.
Idk why they nerfed this perk tbh
If it is so easy and the perk is so useless to experienced survivors, why are you all so adamant for them to change it? Just curious.
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Just leaving this here, as it is the most constructive thing I have seen in this forum since always and it is obvious that many of those who have posted here really need it.
@Iron_Cutlass said:
Hey you, yes you. Are you struggling as Survivor against Xenomorph?
Well I have the news for you, consider this a mini guide on how to play against Xenomorph and tips and tricks for dealing with Xenomorph.
The Part Where I Talk About Turrets...
First off, turrets, at least in the current state, are far from weak like people have been saying. Turrets actually have bugged hitboxes and sometimes hits do not register due to elevation differences or things directly blocking the hit, it is very important to consider this when playing as/against Xenomorph.
So, where you should you place turrets?
Turrets should always be placed in the outside of a loop, preferably on the longer side. It is important to consider line of sight blockers when placing turrets, you want a position with the most viability.
A visual example using 1 loop has been provided below:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FHUS4JCZGCKQ/xeno1.png
In the example above...
- The light blue represents walls and windows.
- The red represents lockers.
- The yellow represents pallets.
- The greens represent totems and hooks.
The purple is where you should place the turret, notice how it has a wide line of sight since it is placed on the outside of the loop, thus controlling more area than just the loop itself (thus providing slowdown even when not looping since it blocks a huge path). When placing turrets, you always need to keep line of sight in mind and place them with thought rather than carelessness.
It is also important to note that line of sight of the Killer itself is only broken up by things that have physical collision, so placing turrets inside of bushes, tall grass, or another form of foliage is a really good idea since it makes things tougher for the Xenomorph to hit.
I would provide an example for every single loop but due to RNG this topic has a lot of nuance to it, so it is important that you learn this skill by yourself!
Double turret strategy...
Double turrets can be really strong when placed right but can be rather time consuming compared to conventional strategies.
To elaborate, when two turrets are placed side by side, they still build up the heat meter at relatively the same rate, however one of them will act as a distraction while the other turret will completely remove Xeno from their power.
While not the best visual aid, I have provided an example below:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/68XEQ0UTJKCH/xeno2.png
From my experience with playing as/against Xenomorph, when done right, this strategy will always guarantee that Xeno loses their power and can effectively create a safezone on the map for you. There are downsides and upsides to this strategy, so I would recommend experimenting.
The Part Where I Talk About The Tail Attack...
Now that you have a basic understanding of where you place turrets, it is now time to move onto the tail attack.
Xenomorph's tail attack actually has a lingering hitbox, kind of like a long and narrow cylinder that pulses in and out of existence. Keep this in mind when facing the Xenomorph since there are various techs that can be used with this lingering hitbox.
- Xenomorph can actually hit over objects with this, by aiming upwards and dragging down, the Xenomorph can hook over the objects to hit Survivors. This can be insanely tricky to pull off since the window for doing so is quite small, but you must keep this in mind when playing as/against Xenomorph.
Xenomorph should be treated like Nemesis in a sense.
The best course of action when facing against Xenomorph is to greed pallets and bait them into hitting things they shouldnt, while not conventional, I have found that the best way of doing this is to look forwards when going into a window or pallet but moving out of the way before getting too close to it.
A visual example has been provided below:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BAJG3FL2RVFF/xeno1.png
What about playing against a Xenomorph that knows what they are doing?
You can rely on audio cues from Xenomorph's tail attack to potentially avoid being hit (but it requires a bit more experience to pull off) or use your knowledge of the Killer and their playstyle and adjust accordingly... just like any Killer, it is important to be flexible, unpredictable, and never give them an easy hit.
Read the Killer, react, if they change up how they play, you also need to change up how you play, this is an important skill to pick up on to begin with and doing well against Xenomorph heavily relies on this.
The Part Where I Talk About Perks...
There are a lot of perks that make Xenomorph far weaker. Obviously these perks are not necessary but can help a lot, I have made a small list to help with this:
- Urban Evasion: Helps with avoiding the Tail Attack by providing more flexibility in movement.
- Sprint Burst: Insane Speed-Boost that can help with avoiding the Tail Attack and allow you to put yourself in a better position after they come from a tunnel.
- Made For This: Makes evading the Tail Attack easier, 3% can make a significant difference from going down or not.
- Overcome: If the Tail Attack or Basic Attack does hit you, you can use this perk to get a significant amount of distance and waste a lot of time.
- Resilience: Makes windows far safer to take, also provides a lot of general utility.
- Wiretap: With the recent changes to Wiretap, you can place it on a blocked or regressing Generator, it can help a lot with not being mindgamed.
- Fixated/Self-Aware: Makes carrying turrets much easier, general utility perk.
- Residual Manifest: Removes a lot of the information Xenomorph receives while in their tunnels, which can sometimes disorient and confuse them while they are traveling around (note that this is semi-countered by marking exit spots however not every Xenomorph Ive seen has done it, it depends on the Killer mostly).
Closing Statements...
Xenomorph is still a rather new Killer, and rather than dismissing them as weak or stating that they are overpowered, I think people should use the opportunity to learn how to play against them.
I also realized how much I suck at drawing on a mousepad... I normally use a drawing tablet... Im good at drawing, I swear.
Anyways, I hope this was helpful to some people who may be struggling to play against Xenomorph.
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@Biscuits said:
This killer is quite strong, I keep statistics and so far her kill rate is currently 93%. I will keep updating this number.
There appears to be some protection frames when she exits a burrow, making turrets placed near the burrow useless. Prevent turrets from being able to be placed too close to burrows.
Turrets also feel quite week, a good killer can tail hit turrets well before they knock them out of their power. Increase the speed or distance for turrets.
Missed tail hits don't seem to be effecting the killer at all. They are able to hold people in one area and guarantee a hit. Increase the cool down or slowdown of her tail attack.
The red stain feels awkward in crawling stance. Idk what to suggest, it just doesn't feel right.
Make the burrows/turrets visible at all times.
Her tail hit seems extremely generous for an ability that can be spammed.
I think someone need to learn what "statistic" really means.
@saintjimmy456 said:
It's been 1 day
It was 3 weeks of killers demanding that Rapid Brutality didn't remove Bloodlust. That wasn't even after 1 day, it was before the chapter was even released.
People have played against Xeno now and have feedback. If survivors hate something and killers love it, that in itself tells you it is not balanced, which is what the devs want, balance.
By that logic, that means they should already nerf MFT, WoO and any Endurance granting perk? Just for balance.
Also, I only recall seeing 1 single post about Rapid Brutality, and everybody said that the perk is fine and was useful for the killers that doesn't really make an use of Bloodlust. So, I don't know where you get that.
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Well, to be fair, where the turrets are more effective is precisely in those empty areas, as it makes another slow down between loops and is where they can flambé the Alien, as if you put it just behind a wall or some other object it would take less than a second for him to destroy it and it won't take his power away (which I think is what everybody is doing, "hiding them", and that's why they say the turret does nothing).
But I agree with the double M1, it's a little counter intuitive to have to push the button two times.
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@averagemikaelamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530659#Comment_3530659
The server literally doesnt below super high ping values and even then not consistently but sure Jimmy. Tell me how in Counter Strike you'll get an advantage from playing on 300 ping. (Which psst,gives a HUGE advantage to Killer in DBD)
You clearly don't know how terrible BHVR's networking is and presume this is a sensible system to feel all smug about it.
You don't get an advantage having high ping most of the time in CS nowadays exactly for the reasons I had give you, but keep proving that you don't have any idea of what you are talking about, please.
EDIT - Just for the giggles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FjeGFnQ4hU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5QyNA6H6rY -
@averagemikaelamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530539#Comment_3530539
The game literally doesnt reject the Killer's POV at all. It's not server sided below a ginormous ping. Even if I have 30ms ping,which I often do,the Killer can still hit me from space if they switch to their McDonald's WiFI with 150ms ping. Stop coping,the hit interactions have been killer sided for a long,long time. Even the stun vildation got super broken because too many killers whined about it while it was mechanically fair.
Tell me you don't know anything about gaming networking without telling me you doesn't.
The server favors the "PoV" of the killer because that's how any game with a minimum of lag compensation works. It's called "favoring the shooter", as it was something designed mainly for FPS.
What this does is prevent the cases where you would shoot someone during 2 seconds without dealing any damage and the other person would be able to kill you because their info got to the server before your info, even if you started shooting first. That's why unless the difference of time between the two packets getting to the server is abysmal (or in other words, one of the players is lagging like hell) and assuming there isn't a problem with packets getting lost, the server analyze the situation and says "Oh wait, this player shooted the other first" and corrects the situation on both ends. This can also provoke what I call "Corner-turning bullets", where you try to get behind a wall while someone is shooting you and even if you see that you get there you got killed anyway. But, in a FPS this is something that you have to endure knowing that when it is the reverse situation you would be the one favored.
Now, all this is how it works in a dedicated server architecture. But there is also another problem, specially when games were P2P (peer to peer), as in that architecture even if there is a host acting as middle point, every single player (peer) was responsible of receiving, processing and sending their info to the other players (hence, "peer to peer" connection). What do you think would happen if when one player sent to another the info that he was shooting him, that other player had so much lag that the packets just get lost and never receives it? That's right! He would be invincible and not receive any damage, as his client never get the packets that said he was getting hurt.
That's why back in the day one common form of hacking was using a "lag switch", because having lag was an advantage in many cases. And, that is most than probably why the survivor in that gif wasn't getting hit when he should have: Because he was lagging, and his client never received the packets that indicated that he should have being hurt.
So, it is you and the ones that thinks like you who should stop coping, as if the server said that you have being hit then most than probably it's because you have being hit, as in the end it doesn't matter who had the lag in the first place as the server compensates for this. Also, I'm going to bet that is one of the reasons they removed the "new" fast vaults, as the lag compensation wasn't working as intended and survivors got instant immunity the moment they started vaulting.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530493#Comment_3530493
Hens played 10 games in his MMR - I don't know about you, but I think he most definitely IS high MMR. Nightlight played 37 games out of which he won 34. You have also other streamers like this. Do you really think these people have low MMR?
IDK but knowing the mentality of players exactly like knightlight (not him specifically, but other comp players most definitely) - try to go to his stream and tell him you think him low MMR (or whatever else you suggest) - see how long it takes for him to ask you to go 1v1 against you and how long you last...
I'm not putting in doubt their MMR, I'm saying that even me, who can't be sure to be in high MMR or not, had "streaks" of wins on occasion and that proves nothing, even less when we can't even know the real skill of those we play against.
And on a related note, those doubts would instantly go away if them started to show you your MMR and those of your opponents, so we would be sure in what MMR bracket we experience some things. But that's another topic... in fact, all of this are, as this post was about the experiences with the game right now and I just gave my opinion on it including my take with the survivor side, but whatever.
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@averagemikaelamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530340#Comment_3530340
im not on my screen. you're getting juicy hits because of your juicy ping.
Yes you are, but you are not conscious of the range the killer has, as someone posted a vid where obviously he was in attack range but he thought he wasn't just because he was away from the window.
Also, how it works, it is your dry ping what is making you not seeing it as the server meant.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530436#Comment_3530436
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530453#Comment_3530453
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530467#Comment_3530467
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaR-9_Vjp3s
Do you think Hens is low MMR? Or KnightLight?
10 games. I also had whole afternoons of pure winning and then 2 days of not being able to get a 1K. That's precisely what I'm saying. Let's do that challenge for a whole week on stream and let's see what happens.
Also, I think he said the words "decent survivor" a couple of times while also criticizing how other do things that they shouldn't (I saw it one of those times you posted it, but I don't have time now to rewatch it to confirm) and that's also what I'm saying, going against decent survivors that know what they are doing.
I don't know why you think that video is definitive proof of... well, anything, to use it as an argument so many times, but you do you.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530467#Comment_3530467
I'm just saying I believe in you, and I wish you'd believe in yourself.
Thanks, Kamina (+rep to anyone that get the reference), but what I'm saying is that being able to get 4K some games with a killer doesn't makes him "viable", and that's the reason for that many people seeing the same killers over and over again and doing the no-no strats so often.
Simple as that.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530453#Comment_3530453
Would you consider Freddy in that top 30%?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SKKRIYB1V5DZ/freddyvmft.jpg
It's not hard if you put your mind to it. Learn to lose, to learn to win. I started by intentionally going for a 9 hook first kill, and I was able to adapt and overcome by forcing myself to chase the best Survivor in every lobby as well as the worst. More loops means more strategies, means more won games.
Yeah, I also get 4Ks with Trapper from time to time. That doesn't means that the moment you get decent and efficient survivors with meta perks you should not be thankful of getting a 2K after sweating blood with him most of the time.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530448#Comment_3530448
That statement is only (arguably) true for tournies. I give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they aren't lying.
That statement is true for high MMR matchmaking as well. But if it makes you happy, I can say "70% of the roster" instead, so it's not an exaggerated number.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530436#Comment_3530436
Just because 90% of the Killers aren't viable in tournaments (with vastly different rules and playstyles), doesn't mean they aren't viable in normal matchmaking. That is a defeatist attitude to not even consider trying.
... who have said anything about tournaments?
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Well, that's what you get when they make decisions that leaves 90% of the killer roster unviable and the only way of pressuring survivors is using the unholy trinity of strategies they don't like.
So yeah, even for me that don't play survivor as much have had this experience when I did, and also the inverse. That's why I don't play as much at all recently.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3530308#Comment_3530308
getting hit after finishing fast vault is unfair hit for the killer.
If you are in my attack range, no it's not. What is unfair and illogical is the contrary.
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@MB666 said:
yep i do agree , bad players were really so desperate about their bs hits not connecting and now just look how insanely bad the vaults are , not only you can be hit during the entire 0.5 sec animation also another extra 0.2 seconds after vaulting because your hitbox now stays insanely close to the window and you have to move forward a bit to prevent the hit after fast vaulting like the medium vaults , claps nicely done bad killer mains / new killer players 🙄.
basically right now we went from balanced vault on females but a bit generous for males
to terrible for females and still generous for males , WHAAAAAAAAAAT? OKAY BHVR
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529876#Comment_3529876
dude , really i've been playing this game for over 5 years now and nope fast vaulting was never intended to allow the killer to hit the survivor during the entire 0.5 sec animation , the hitboxes used to be like this: (on green ping btw and not ressilience)
*survivor fast vaults a window*
*survivor reaches 0.455 of the animation* ----their hitbox is now far away enough to prevent any m1 hit from connecting.
*killer swings during that period* ------ their hit doesnt connect and bad players blames I-frames for some reason.
*survivor finishes the vault* -----------succes timing!!! (but right now that timing is 0.8 seconds because you dont gain any distance)
for reference here it is footage of the old vaults:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/K47WCO3ZJCQ5/old-vault-good-ping.gif
stop lying dude pls....(that cheryl its me btw - old dh was meta dont judge me XD)
Yeah... have you seen the reaction of the killer there because he should have hit you? That's the reason of why you should be hit if you are still in range.
Also, I'm going to bet that gif is from the time were the game was still P2P and lagging was even more of a problem that it is right now.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529876#Comment_3529876
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NC6U32F7B0C6/image.png
the way vaults are suppose to be is where purple line is. medium vaults are suppose to be where yellow line is. the bug they had in previous update was that male vaults were where orange line is. they needed to move distance a bit back to purple line. I remember someone talking about vaults at one point in a patch note.
it was long time ago where they buffed medium vaults momentum. they called the mechanic momentum. I do not remember which dev talked about that. they buffed medium vaults at one point to be 0.9 instead of 1.1. I believe this was the time around clown's release. In any case, momentum is how far you get propel forward after completing a vault. fast vaults are meant to be max momentum such that when you complete it, you do not get hit by killer m1 swing. medium vaults are medium momentum. you still get hit but your directly next to the window. slow vaults have no momentum. you will be directly next to the window after a slow vault.
I personally do not like these medium and fast vault mechanics because the loops lose symmetry where if you are on counter-clock wise part of loop, like say shack, you can react to medium vault window vault on pallet side because of how slow medium vaults are. not a big fan of vaulting mechanics in the game but I can understand the mechanic for why it was invented. I prefer reading my opponent and winning mind games at every turn. at same time, a lot of m1 killer have too weak of a base-kit to challenge loops and gen speed to hook ratio is not that fair for killer. in that sense, medium vaults are fair. this is just mini-rant on my thoughts on vaulting in the game. this is whole separate discussion on a different topic.
You are simply nuts, starting with that being almost 4 meters of jump and almost 5 meters for male (if you pay close attention, the fence over the wall have 16 bars coming from the center of the pillar, and if the wall is 8 meters then 2 bars means 1 meter). Are survivors able to fly now, apart of being olympic runners thanks to haste perks?
Also, besides from the fast vault being significantly faster than a slow or medium vault (0.5 seconds to complete vs 0.9 / 1.5 seconds, respectively) there is no mention anywhere of a "minimum distance" for the vault, much less that it guarantees you enough distance to being out of the reach of the killer.
What the momentum means is that first, you need a minimum distance running to reach the enough momentum to do a fast vault, as not survivor or the killer accelerates to their maximum speed instantly afaik (in fact, lounge attack distance is also affected by momentum, meaning that if I walk for a couple of seconds before doing it it would reach further). That, and on patch 2.5.0 they implemented this:
- Survivor Quality of Life: Survivors now retain their momentum after Vaulting, instead of it being reset to 0 as previously.
And what that means is that you will maintain your speed the moment you finish any of the vaults, so if you have maximum speed when vaulting (AKA fast vault) you would have instantly max speed when you are at the other side, so it will be more easy for you to get out of reach in conjunction with the fast vault only taking 0.5 seconds to complete. Again, it has nothing to do with vaulting distance.
In conclusion, fast vaulting never had anything to do with gaining a lot of distance or making you unable to get hit, but giving you the chance to get away faster without guaranteeing your safety, as it is logical and is how it has to be. Taking this in count, if they add distance to fast vaults for both male and females (for consistency and Trapper reasons) it should look something like this:
1.5 meters of jump made in 0.5 seconds and max speed on finish that also count haste effects so you have more than enough time to get out of there. And if you don't, then maybe you should have go for a pallet as I was literally breathing on your neck. Powerful, but fair, not going flying to the other side of the map through the window because you don't like to get hit.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529505#Comment_3529505
your not suppose to be standing on front of a window after completing vault. your suppose to be like 2-3 meter ahead window after finishing fast vault. you can only hits survivor after completing a vault if the vault is medium vault or slow vault. they need to fix the bug or just revert change. it was already fixed. they just needed to reduce distance for male survivors.
... 3 meters? So you are able to jump further than the height of the tallest person when vaulting? Because if not, it's the first notice I have that the meters of the game are not somewhat at "scale", as that would be more than a "Wraith" of distance.
Either way, I said that because I thought he meant that it was a bug that the Alien was able to hit the Ada in the video. And again, I don't really care what distance any of the vaults has, but if you are at attack range you should get hit, no matters in what point of the vault you are or if you have finished it and are at the other side of the window.
And just for reference, this is in theory the hitbox (as I didn't find any more sources of the actual range):
BTW, also for reference and in theory, there are exactly 8 in-game meters from the center of one of the pillars to another of the wall in the image. I doubt that survivors are supposed to vault almost half of that wall there.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529306#Comment_3529306
your not suppose to be able to m1 through window after completing fast vault. your suppose to teleport further away from window after finishing vault. for fast-vaults, killer should only be able to hit you DURING the vault animation. not after animation is done. in conclusion, they still have not fixed the vaulting bug for females.
if the killer cannot hit you after finishing vault for the males then males vaults are working correctly.
If you stand in front of it, how it is a bug that you can be hit through, again, an open and unobstructed window.
Again, I don't care if they add more distance to the vault so it help you getting away from the window quicker, but if you are inside my attack range I don't care in what side of the window you are, you should get hit for many reasons, starting because it's the logical thing.
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For the million time, the "new" fast vaults were bugged to the point of softlocking the tutorial and making survivors invincible while vaulting.
And in my personal opinion, I don't care if they made the vaults give you more distance as long as I can still hit you if you are in attack range, even if you are at the other side. I don't know why is so strange to you all that the killer is able to hit you through an open window to the point of wanting an invisible field on it.