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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529012#Comment_3529012
Either i dont understand You or You dont understand me, because Your answer looks like You didnt payed attention to what You read.
If its my fault then i'm sorry i cant explain it better.
Let's put that I teleport to a double locker, and I does it in the one that is locked. Now, I know that locker don't have a lock anymore, so there is no point in teleporting to the other one unless I want to try to catch a survivor that is trying to hide there as he expects me to always teleport to the one without a lock. That's how I think it should work.
Now, if I don't misunderstood anything, how it works right now is that it doesn't matter what of the two lockers is locked, and doesn't matters if I choose to teleport to the unlocked one, the game would force me to always teleport to the one locked. Which means, if I teleport there a second time and the survivors have locked the other one, I would again teleport to the one locked instead of doing it to the one without a lock anymore. And I think it should not work this way, for the reasons I already mentioned.
Yet again, I didn't play with the Dredge yet, so I'm just trying to follow what is being said here.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529012#Comment_3529012
They are very limited and one time use resources , So destroying both locks would be a huge waste
The killer also has an add-Ons that interacts with locks
Well, counters to killers power that doesn't have any drawback for survivors or benefit for the killer should be limited and one time use resources to begin with. Want to know why? Look at the Singularity.
But the point is that I'm forced to get countered not even in my main power, and that without taking in count that the priority system completely removes any 50/50 mindgame possible from it, like the other non-locked locker maybe containing a survivor hiding or the next time I teleport to that locker that I thought was open they locked it.
I don't know, why give me the chance to even chose where I want to teleport if the game is going to force me to do it in the one that less favors me, as I'm going to assume that knowing this nobody is going to hide in the unlocked one. I still don't understand why is this a thing.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528382#Comment_3528382
- Not "More". Survivors have counters, and have to use them properly, otherwise killer can just remove it. Its up to survivors.
- No, If you lock both, then killer may just breake second one, and you stay without protection. If you lock only first one, then after using it by the Dredge, you can lock second one. Without this mechanic, this second one would means nothing.
... so, you are justifying it with "Survivors would have one less counter when two lockers are side by side", as when one of the two lockers would have it's lock broken, there is no point in teleport to the second one!
So yes, "more". And come on, using them properly is as hard as just locking it, it's not like there is much thought or muscle memory skill behind this "counter".
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528219#Comment_3528219
Well the healing with CoH on Ptb was not an exploid if you mean that...
It was in the game and people found out about it. That's why it didn't go live.
No no, I'm refering to the first version of the game, where there was a build that basically makes you impossible to kill and people was defending it by saying "You don't want the game to be fun". This video explain the full story (and more):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d07FrAgsobM@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528196#Comment_3528196
You are supposed to fall right? You are supposed to move right? If you have momentum while falling, you move while falling right? If this wasn't intended, they would add a physical barrier, glass if they wanted people to see through but not move through. This is bad and lazy design. Try shredding as Demo off of the 2nd story on near any map (Garden in particular) now and tell me where you DON'T hit an invisible wall. Invisible walls are bad design because they don't show a barrier for movement.
This standing on a short object isn't exactly new. The Harvester left side hay bale can be jumped on and hit by M1 Killers from below, just the same with the railing on Toba Landing. Survivors can fall past the railing and Killers can fall past the railing. There is no exploit, this is good design. Slapping an invisible barrier everywhere because physical barriers are 'ugly' is horrifically bad design.
I'm not saying that BHVR map design team didn't screw up in the first place or that they didn't opted by the faster and cheaper solution of putting an invisible wall instead of changing that part of the map. In other words, I agree with you.
But I have to also say, it was clear that it was a bug and that was not supposed to happen, starting with the fact that they "fixed" it (even if in the laziest of ways).
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@Babz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527792#Comment_3527792
'Denied of your endgame 1k' is not really a fair way to phrase it - firstly considering the fact that you're reached endgame with no kills in the first place and secondly because you cannot get a kill without tunnelling and camping one survivor out; since according to your logic the only way to get an endgame kill is through bypassing the 'basekit BT protection' to tunnel and kill one survivor. Just because you are a killer player this does not mean you deserve a kill and this mentality is exactly why the basekit BT was added in the first place; to actually give individual survivors a chance to escape killers to solely want to kill them and no one else.
Perhaps survivors still have abusable mechanics in this game which need fixing, but to act like the devs have not already tried to fix potentially unfavourable mechanics that act against killer players is rather derogatory and rude. I will list some of the buffs killers have received:
- Dead Hard nerf
- Generator time increase to 90 seconds
- Medkit nerfs
- Hit recovery time decrease
- Pallet/generator/wall destruction time decrease
- Endurance non-stacking effect, removal with conspicuous actions
- Decisive strike/Off the record removal in endgame
- 2.5% instant damage when kicking generators
Yes there are problems in this game, I agree. However, you must understand that if this game becomes anywhere near completely 'balanced', e.g. the removal of survivor strategies with perks (as you mentioned) or the concept all killers [m1 or not] having equal chances to win, this game would be so, so boring. Dead By Daylight is not built to be a balanced game, therefore this concept of being 'outsmarted by the mechanics of the game' has always applied to both killer and survivor and always probably will. Here are some examples of this in survivor:
- Getting hit through a window when the hit doesn't appear to connect
- Running into a dead zone that simply exists because of RNG
- Simply no option to make a 4-man escape against a basement Bubba due to his ability to camp with no downside
and for killer:
- Unnecessarily large maps with generators almost impossible to patrol
- Unplayable loop setups that make chasing feel arduous rather than fun
& many more on both sides. The point is, Dead By Daylight is not, and was not created as a balanced game and therefore often the game itself can feel like it is against you.
The devs are adding these mechanics (such as basekit BT etc) because they want to make Dead By Daylight into the game it is meant to be. Dead By Daylight is meant to be a thrilling game where the killer traverses the map hunting 4 survivors, not a game where a killer hunts and camps one particular survivor to get one kill. At this moment in time, I agree that the playstyle of NOT camping/tunnelling may be really punishing and you may feel forced to do so due to genrushing/too many pallets/overpowered loops etc... but until the devs remove the effortless nature of camping and tunnelling, they cannot nerf said genrushing/too many pallets/overpowered loops because that would simply make camping and tunnelling more powerful, oppressive and potentially drive most of the survivor playerbase away from the game.
It is actually a concrete fact that killer has received more buffs over the past year than survivor, so I would appreciate if you possibly understood that yes these developers ARE listening to you and are trying!! But until they add/alter mechanics to sort out the large CURRENT problems in the survivor/killer experience right now, they cannot progress to an overall better game. Although some mechanics that the devs add may currently feel punishing and abusable, they are often added with consideration to a larger plan that hopes to change the macro-level gameplay experience that perfects the fine line of Dead By Daylight being 'party game' that still offers competitive intensity/payoff.
Like Jack the Reaper said, "let's go by parts":
Of course, you have take it the "camping" way. But the point isn't a 1K being "rightfully yours" or not. Of course you don't have the right to any kill. But if the only reason I didn't get a 1K is because the basekit BT prevented me to down not even the hooked survivor, but the unhooker, as they are going to use that free Endurance to make a protection hit and then the unhooker would proceed to leverage his healthy state to body block you from downing the unhooked survivor again, then, I have being denied of a 1K not because survivors played extremely good or because one of them even thought of bringing BT to the game for cases like this. No, I wasn't able to even get a 1K because the basekit BT mechanic prevent the killer to be able to do anything in that situation unless survivors screw up. That's it. Because in a normal situation one of the two should have go down, but they didn't just because the free Endurance. So, sorry if the wording of it triggered you, but the mechanic have denied me a 1K in that situation.
Can you tell me where I have said that "the devs have not already tried to fix potentially unfavourable mechanics" for killers, if you don't mind? Because I think that what I clearly pointed out is, in any case, that those fixes and perk changes you mentioned there came after years of people complaining and without anyone even knowing they were coming in the first place. In fact, the "two years" phrasing was a reference of what happened with the unexpected nerf to DH. We could also talk about the efficiency of any of those changes, but that's another topic. Also, I think you are confusing "perks" with "game mechanics" when they are not the same.
Now, again, are you so kind of telling me where I said things like "the removal of survivor strategies with perks" (whatever that means) or that I want "all killers having equal chances to win"? Because if it wasn't by the first part of your post, I would think that you made a mistake and was really answering other post. But what most surprises me is that you really think that any of those things would make the game boring, but making survivors gameplay more brainless (as now they don't even have to think if they are leaving a good last gens to the killer) not.
But the funny part is that all your survivors examples of "being outsmarted by the mechanics of the game" aren't really base game mechanics, while your two examples for the killer are, in fact, base game mechanics that work that way by design. By design. That's the difference.
And sincerely, the rest of your post is too much to even try to make a good argument against it (they implemented base BT because they wanted to "make Dead By Daylight into the game it is meant to be"? Really? And they can not nerf "genrushing/too many pallets/overpowered loops" because that would somehow make camping and tunneling worst? Seems legit...), so I'm just going to wish you a great day.
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@Archael said:
This is intended. Locks are limitted resourcess, and managing it is survivors responsibility. Other on that. If Dredge would teleport to random, or non-locked locker, then what is the point of double lockers and breaking locks in the first place?
Imagine locking only one locker. Dredge is teleporting to oppened one so surv have to lock both, no brain power in countering killer power.
Imagine locking both lockers. Dredge broke from closed locker, and have no reason to destroy second one since it will never use it. Resource is wasted from the beggining.
You are saying that like it is alright to artificially force you to eat a counter so survivors have more of them at their disposition. Also, locking just one locker because the game forces the killer to eat the counter uses the exact same brain power as just locking both, but you are allowed to do it two times.
@Nos37 said:
When there are 2 lockers side by side, this is how the game currently prioritizes them:
- The locker with a survivor in it
- The locked locker
- The locker the Dredge chose
If they remove locker priorities, that should include prioritizing a locker that the survivor is hiding in if it's next to the locker that the Dredge chose.
Seems fair. I don't even know why there is a priority system for this to begin with.
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@MadameExotine said:
I think it would be best for game to have an MMR ceiling for killers based on hours used on that specific killer taken into account. Learning new killer needs some buffer time to get the fundamentals down before matching with high MMR survivers who already know all the counters. As the players stacks more hours on a specific killer, the ceiling raises, and higher MMR survivers get matched.
It would also improve game health, in that killers will feel less helpless and won't resort as much to camping/tunnelling (as often it would feel to be the only liable solution).
That's the thing, right now what it has is a floor afaik.
If you have 2400 MMR with one killer, then the rest has a minimum of 1000 automatically (not exact numbers, but for understanding). That's why whenever you play with a new killer that obviously you don't know how to play as it always seems that you get survivors above your level, because you are matched against people that know how to counter your killer while you still don't even know to how your power exactly work.
It would be great for it to give you at least some "courtesy matches" where you are paired with low MMR survivors or maintain the same MMR so you have a chance to learn the killer before throwing you to the high MMR wolfs, but it is how it works right now.
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It's funny that people still use the "It's a perk for new players" argument to defend WoO. A new player would not even know that such perk exist before seeing it or someone telling them, starting by the fact that it's blocked behind a DLC survivor.
The only truth is that this perk is used by experienced high MMR survivors to extend chases by literally having X-rays and knowing exactly where the unused pallets are, so they can just leave the current unsafe loop to the next one with a guaranteed pallet or literally not loop at all and just go from pallet to pallet, as they know that even then they would "loop" the killer enough for at least 2 gens.
And if a "newer" player use it, the only thing it would do is for him to be able to win chases that he shouldn't (NOED, anybody?) and put a ceiling in his skill building as he don't even need to learn how the maps or looping goes.
So the only bad thing about this is that it is only the description (and that it would be an unannounced nerf, which is not fair), but it is about time that WoO has some kind of drawback instead of just being "X-rays vision for free".
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528196#Comment_3528196
Sorry that you had to spend your time to explain that.
Im all on board to get exploits out of the game.
I didn't know that going on the railing was not something they considered. On top, your posts only mentioned survivors "exploiting" the railing so I wanted to clarify that killers could do the same.
Sorry if I annoyed you.
The reference to survivors was just a joke as it's not the first time someone seriously complained about "BHVR not liking fun" when they patched obvious exploits and such. When they removed insta-healing that allowed survivors to heal faster than the killer basic attack cooldown, for example.
Apologies accepted, and sorry for sounding annoyed. Maybe I overreacted a bit.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528175#Comment_3528175
What exploit?
You could get on top there as killer as well.
Used it pretty often the get to the hook at the bottom faster.
... Can't believe I have to explain this, but: Are you being able to get on something you shouldn't be able to get on? Yes? It gives you any kind of advantage doing so? Yes again? Then it's an exploit. Or a bug that you are exploiting, if you will.
Still not seeing the fun in that.
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@adam1233467 said:
cringe tbh, they hate fun
@Emoba said:
They recently developed a fetish for invisible walls on high grounds. It just makes the game worse both gameplay and visual-wise but they're too stubborn and disconnected from reality to realize it.
Ohhhhh, so when survivors complains that the game "Isn't fun anymore" what they really mean is "It's not as exploitable as before". Got it.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527466#Comment_3527466
I think the main concern is that solutions to survivor problems tend to just be 100% nerfs on the killer side, or 100% buffs on the survivor side
1) The previewed anti-camping solution was shown as a 100% nerf for killers.
2) Hook grabs got removed, and was a 100% nerf for killers
3) The survivor HUD was a 100% buff for survivors
4) The visual terror radius was a 100% buff for survivors
5) Being worried that the 3 gen solution might be a 100% buff for survivors, or 100% nerf for killers, feels like a completely valid concern.
6) We still have zero announcements for killer quality of life improvements, or killer player experience buffs, beyond an FoV thing that is being implemented for accessibility reasons. And considering that survivors have the 5 above announced player experience buffs, it feels like fun is only important for survivors.
Don't forget the try to change killer's hit cooldown animation and the real reason behind it. I still laugh everytime I remember it:
Patch notes: "Some killers looks down, which makes hard for the killer to follow where the survivor goes after a hit, while others not. So, we are going to change it so it is more consistent."
Me thinking: Oh hey! They're going to change the animation to make somewhat easier for killers to chase survivors! No more Houdini survivors disappearing after...
Patch notes: "We are going to make every one of them look down!"
Me:
But hey, I'm just silly for assuming, it seems.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527077#Comment_3527077
With all due respect, you do not know anything about this mechanic yet and cannot possibly say whether or not it holds your hand. Trying to dispel something under the guise of being hand holdy without having any info on it is silly, and frankly you could apply that same logic to anything (where it also wouldn't hold up to any scrutiny).
I find that what you're doing here is downplaying how strong and frustrating this strategy can be while simultaneously trying to turn this into an us vs. them situation. If your loyalty to one side is causing you to argue against fixing overly powerful or frustrating gameplay that the other side may face, then you've shown you don't actually care for things like fun and balance as much as your care about your own experience. You can acknowledge how people feel when they're stuck in a scenario like this and still want improvements on your end as well. The two are not mutually exclusive.
With all due respect, when have you released a mechanic to "solve survivor's gameplay problems that already have a gameplay solution" that wasn't "hand holdy"? In fact, let's ask the killers reading this: How many times have you being denied of your end game 1K because the basekit BT protection prevented you to down anybody? And I doubt that I have to remember a member of the dev team what happened everytime you even tried to implement mechanics like this: Survivors abused them to get an advantage. How is all this no "hand holdy" when they allowed survivor to win games they shouldn't? Because if a survivor should be dead and he isn't because a game mechanic prevents it, then it is hand holding him. And yes, thank god many of those things wasn't released past the PTB (yet), but that doesn't change that you invested developing time in them.
This would not be a problem if, again, there wasn't already gameplay solutions for things like this: Coordinating bodyblocks to go for the save, doing the gens in a way that don't let the killer have 3 close by gens at the end (something that has happened to me, while I never defended 3 gens since the start of the game, and I have being accused of "3genning" anyways), etc. But survivors refuse to adapt and learn how to counter those things, so they complain and Papa BHVR comes up with yet another mechanic to make their life easier, while making SWF with voicecomms stronger and M1 killers even less viable. Again, this is like a soccer team complaining is so boring and hard playing against teams using defensive tactics and the FIFA saying "Well, nobody can use a 5-4-1 formation against this team anymore".
And don't get me wrong, I'm the first one that hope for whatever you have in mind to solve 3genning being so fair and balanced you can shut my mouth up and make me swallow my words when you announce it, but right now I'm just looking at the past facts, including the new "anti-camping" mechanic than even in paper sounds abusable already.
And about the "loyalty to one side" and the "us vs them" situation: When was the last time a member of the dev team or even a moderator have come to this forum to say to the killer community "Don't worry guys, we hear you and we are working in solving it"? Because I don't remember seeing it a single time. I have seen devs saying something multiple times in post like this one and others about camping, tunneling, 3genning, slugging... never in a post about the "overly powerful or frustrating gameplay" killers face. Are there any QoL improvements for killers coming? Something about haste stacking to the point of survivors being faster than killers in the works? About the amount of Endurance perks you implemented that are allowing even a new bully strategy when paired with Power Struggle? About M1 killers not being able to compete? Anything? Or we have to just wait for you to decide to solve any of those things 2 years from now and be grateful of the pleasant surprise?
Based on this, can we say that are you the ones only caring about the "fun and 'balance'" of survivors and not nearly enough about the experiences killers have playing the game? Because I think that I have addressed the problem in my other post: It's true that some killers can use those strategies so efficiently that makes it hard to counter them. So, nerf those killers. Rework Skull Merchant so she can't defend 3 gens at the start of the game and make it impossible to break it, change Bubba's power so he can't instadown someone with his chainsaw near a hook to prevent him from camping without allowing survivors to do a rescue. Refactor the map generator so it doesn't spawn 3 gens close by in an straight line.
Whatever it takes to "balance the fun" (for both sides, if you don't mind). But for the love of The Entity, don't add another general killer nerf in form of a mechanic to the game for the sole reason of survivors wanting to just do gens without having to put any thought in it, when it's their work to not let it happen. Because then, it would end being another hand holding advantage for them by design, and another reason to get frustrated as a killer as you aren't getting outsmarted by survivors playing good, you are being outsmarted by the mechanics of the game.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3527077#Comment_3527077
its Not handholding. The greatest dbd team in the world couldn’t even beat the skull merchant! They won but it took them like 55 minutes just to repair the last gen. If the top comp teams can’t repair the gens imagine solo players who are not good at the game.
Putting aside than me, as a noob SoloQ player, have broken 3 gens multiple times (yet again, I use PT + Deja Vu + SA instead of whatever "cool meta" build is popular at the moment), that would be an Skull Merchant problem instead of a 3 genning one.
Rework the Skull Merchant so her only power isn't just zoning 3 gens, and for the rest of cases where survivors have more involvement in leaving that 3 gens to the killer than the killer choosing them leave it alone, as if survivors didn't thought of it and just did every gen they cross path with is their fault.
But no, yet again another general nerf to all killers because survivors want to play their way without adapting or having to thought in how they play while most killers are not even viable right now in high MMR and / or against SWF. Sorry, but this is like soccer players complaining they can't score, so we are going to make the goal bigger but just for one of the teams.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3526759#Comment_3526759
I'm not sure where this comes from, but:
- We have confirmed that we are working on a solution to help with excessively long 3 gens.
- It's not always the Survivor's mistake. A Killer can also choose to defend a 3 gen from the start of the match, leaving them no choice.
So, another hand holding from your part to cover the skill issue of the survivor community? Because even if a killer can choose to defend 3 gens from the start, it's survivors work and choice to let him have it or not. Something as easy to do as using Deja Vu and pressuring the killer until the 3 gen it's broken.
But of course, we can't allow to force survivors to adapt to the game for once, as they are 4 times more players than killers and if they leave who is going to buy all those precious cosmetics we are releasing. QoL improvements for killers? Balance the game? What for? We have to make it easy for survivors so they keep playing.
Oh, and don't forget to nerf The Pig. That would solve every balance problem.
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@HexBooba said:
Ever since this stupid update where they nerfed dead hard, you pretty can't do anything against killers in the beginning of the match. Not only that, after they manage to kill you and hook and you and you get saved, they tunnel you out of the game and ignore every other player infront of them. The game is not fun anymore in the aspect where dead hard used to be the only good perk a survivor had to stay alive in chase with killer, with this nerf, there is almost 0 reason to run it anymore. I've been playing since the update came out and 90% of my games im getting tunnelled and theres literally nothing i can do about it and having dead hard after being unhooked does little to nothing if im getting tunnelled because if they hit me while endurance is up i cant use deadhard after that so the perk is pretty much USELESS. Sick and tired of this middy game and these updates that ruin the game more and more every time they release one.
Have you tried to not use your anti-tunneling Endurance to do protection hits or not unhooking someone with the killer literally breathing on your neck? Because with 10 seconds of Endurance and Haste, if someone still see viable to tunnel you off hook I'm going to guess that instead of getting out of there as fast as you can you are staying to protect your savior, which makes you a best target than him in most cases where normally you shouldn't.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525921#Comment_3525921
I see there's no point in trying to get a reasonable argument out of you.
It seems your whole premise is that you want killers to not have basic QOL changes because it doesn't benefit you or survivors in general.
He obviously has the "Killers are OP" survivor main mentality, that's why I didn't even bother to continue responding to him. Even if BHVR released killrates now and they were at 20%, he would still keep saying that killers are too powerful.
And if the killer kills them is not because they did something wrong, is because obviously BHVR is killer sided and hand holds killers when they should be nerfing them.
That's why he sees a QoL feature for killers that is reasonable to have as an extreme buff that would unbalance and ruin the game for everybody. It's the same old song.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525783#Comment_3525783
61% killrate before tunneling got easier. Before the kick gen meta was out of control. Before survivor healing was massively nerfed. It is without a question over 65% at this point. Mind you the 61% was for everyone, and they said the solo/SWF kill rate was nearly 10% difference. Meaning soloQ survivors had a 70% death rate, BEFORE it got as bad as it is right now. I would bet money that if you seclude the Solo survivor death rate for the past 2 months, it would be between 70-75%.
The only nerf to killers since the changes were just a few regression perks, and all it did was rearrange which perks killers use. They didn't actually lose any power. The endurance cheese only works in SWFs so the other 90% of games you play you don't even experience it. Save the best for last is still hilariously over powered. You can still camp a 3 gen and never leave it and 4k. You can play bubba camp build and guarantee 3-4k by standing at the hooks. The game has never been easier on you.
If you were smart you would be proposing solutions to bring SWFs down a peg and soloQ survivors up a few. Instead you are just asking for more blanket killer buffs.
There is so much wrong there I don't even know where to start...
Mind to explain how tunneling has got easier when they implemented a free Endurance and Haste for 10 seconds on unhook?
Do you realize that the kick gen meta was a result of survivors gen rush meta? And that this last one has not being touched nearly enough in all this time and is one of the reasons that M1 killers can do nothing right now, as survivors finish all 5 gens in 5 minutes or less even when you are constantly doing hooks?
Also, did you not know that the healing nerf did absolutely nothing? Because it was going to be the solution to the gen rush meta without touching gen times anymore: Survivors pressure killers by doing gens, killers pressure survivor by hurting them instead of regressing gens with perks. But at the end, because survivors literally review bombed the game in Steam, they only nerfed self heal and it resulted in don't affecting gen times in the slightest and gen regression is dead.
The 61% was an average, so it being an average means that 10% difference between SoloQ and SWF is included. So no, SoloQ don't have a 70% death rate, has a 61% on average like everyone else.
You can bet whatever you want, we don't know right now. But, if you want to bet, I bet you that the killrates for any M1 killer have dropped significantly since survivors started using MFT + Resiliance, Buckle Up + FTP, and all the other things they have right now. Also, the number of players picking killer, even more so since TCM released.
The nerf to
just a fewall regression perks what did is, again, exacerbate the gen rushing problem as now killers don't have any other tool to pressure survivors that isn't slugging, tunneling or 3genning if they don't want to let the gens get done by the time they are going to do their 3º hook.The endurance "cheese" work with anyone as again, the perks grant them just for breathing. You have healed someone as you would do anyways? Here, endurance for you and your friend!
STBFL is one of the most balanced perks right now, making the killer to even have to sacrifice hooks and hits if he wants to maintain his tokens most of the game. And, is also one of the few perks that allow some killers to catch up with MFT survivors.
3gens are only possible if survivors let the killer have those 3gens. A killer can try to defend them since the start, but is survivors choice to let him do so.
A camping Bubba is as easy to beat as just doing gens. Anyway, I don't know how one killer being able to do viable an strategy that of course is not allowed in the Holy Survivor's Rulebook is proof that killers in general are OP, but you do you.
The game being "easier" for killers, or in other word, being more balance right now than before doesn't means that it is totally balanced or that killers are OP.
So, if you would be smart, not biased or really wanted a balanced game, you at least won't mind killers getting something that AGAIN, should have being in the game since the beginning. But, here you are.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525769#Comment_3525769
The kill rates massively disagree with your perception of the game.
You mean the killrates that they released 1 year ago? The ones that showed that killers was just doing fine and was the first time they get to that point in the devs own words? Because 60% killrate means 40% winrates for both sides, as for a killer only a 3K is a win.
So, in any case, we live in the "killer are doing fine for the first time since the game released era" by that logic. Yet again, that was 1 year ago, before survivors got haste for days and 7 endurance perks that grants it for breathing.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525767#Comment_3525767
I am on about. You are asking for a huge buff to killer, during the strongest killer era EVER in dbd.
Oh yes, the strongest killer era! That's why there is killers just stopping playing the game or playing survivor, and the few that still submits to the pain that is playing against the Hitproof Usain Bolts with Xrays that survivors are right now can only do that with a few killers, as any killer without chasing power would struggle to even get a 2K.
But again, is not asking for a buff, is asking for something that should have being in the game since the beginning. Just like the survivor's HUD icons. Nothing more, nothing less.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525758#Comment_3525758
Isn't that what you are asking for though? To see peoples status effects like haste and endurance. Which would allow you to completely ignore people who run MFT and Hope in the end game. Being able to see if people are blinded/oblivious would also be extremely powerful on killers like Sadoko and Skull merchant who would be able to turn those into info.
That doesn't mean that it should be shown all the time, even less when they are not in effect. Seriously, what you are on about?
And yes, they would be able to turn those into info, which is the whole point for it! That killers doesn't have any info to work with at the time to make decisions! Most killers don't even have a crosshair for their powers and have to develop muscle memory for use them correctly, for the fog's sake.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525627#Comment_3525627
What you are asking for is the ability to see endurance status effects so you can avoid making a mistake. Which in turn almost entirely negates the power that those perks have, which is not knowing they have them. Imagine if NoED told the survivors it was active at the start of the match, you would never use the perk again. There is a reason that info is not made available to you.
Tell me exactly where I said such thing, much so taking in count that Endurance is one of the few status effect that has visual feedback even if it is only when you hit someone that has it.
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@aragami said:
"I'm tired to see nurses, ranged and high mobility killers" -> remove MFT. Legit thought process.
How about nerfing mobility killers instead? How does that sound? How about the nurse getting reworked since it completely ignores the game mechanics (instead of adding additional blinks)? How about removing alchemist's ring and addons that increase speed for blight?(how come the blight need speed addons when it runs iirc at 9 m/s?) and in addition limiting the rushes to 3/4. How about giving an exhaustion to m2 killers, who can hold m2 power endlessly nullyfing mindgames at a dropped pallet or windows, without being punished (pyramid, deathslinger etc..)?
I think these changes are healthy for the game since it restrict a bit the gap between let's say a blight and a pig and we'll se a wider variety of killers without the needs of a system that would be nth band-aid fix
So, you want for them to nerf the only viable killers than can do something in the game right now instead of address the reason of why they are the only viable killers right now because obviously "Killers are OP"? Now, that's a legit thought process there! For a survivor main, that is.
And yes, give exhaustion to M2 killers that already have to deal with easy avoidable or counterable powers on top of cooldowns, slowdowns and punishments even when using any of their kit right. Not like survivors, that don't even need to spent a second to stop a gen regressing and most of their perks activates automatically or instantly at the push of a button. Poor survivors, they have it so hard acquiring that muscle memory to use their abilities correctly!
The only one thing in all their kit that requires certain level of practice is DH, and most people have stopped using it because they can't spam it 20 times per trial to get lucky enough to get it right instead of really timing it.
To be real, I'm not even going to say that there isn't some killers that need some changes, but even suggest that right now all the WoO + MFT + Endurance and haste perks doesn't have made all the M1 killer unviable and that's the reason for seeing the same killers so much is asinine, and the only thing nerfing those viable killers would do right now is for even more killers to just stop playing the game.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525355#Comment_3525355
So what you are saying is they added the survivor HUD to bridge the gap between soloQ and SWF which if I remember correctly was over a 10% difference in kill rate between SWFs and SoloQ squads. And the purpose of the killer HUD would be to do what? Bring the 65% kill rate to 70%?
I said what I said, and the purpose of having visual feedback on status effect would be being able to make informed decisions about the effects survivors are affected with. Again, like in any videogame you can think off.
Just imagine if you won't be able to see any affect if a Paladin in WoW used Divine Shield, which makes it immune to all damage for 8 seconds. Or Reyna using Dismiss in Valorant, which does the same for 2 seconds.
"Why I'm not making any damage? Have they used something that makes them invulnerable? I'm lagging? Are they hacking? Should I keep trying to kill them or just try to flee?"
That's why in both cases they have a visual effect so any player looking in their direction can know they are affected by a buff, so you can identify it, know exactly what are affecting them and give you the opportunity to adapt to that situation. That, and it also makes the game more immersive as you can see visually how your abilities affect you and others:
In fact, in WoW you can always see what buffs and debuffs are affecting you, other players or NPCs with icons besides they having visual effects:
What we have in DbD to allow us to even know that our powers and debuffs are affecting the survivors or the gens? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. We can't even know how many times we have hooked a survivor as we don't even have the counter as survivors do. Ironically enough, survivors do receive all this information including the details of the effect the killer applying it don't, like how much corruption The Plague have applied to a survivor.
So, there you have it. The reasons to why we need "a HUD" is so we can adapt to the situation and made informed decisions based on what effects survivors are affected with, because it is absurd that I can not see if the survivor I'm chasing is still affected by that exposed effect I applied to him, because we need to be able to know if our perks are even working correctly or there is something wrong, because it will allow us to be able to differentiate better if someone has a Haste effect or is speed hacking, and because is tiresome to have to rely to memory to even know if it was the Meg that we are chasing the one that is at last hook or is one of the other two Megs in the game. And on top of all that, because it is something that should have being in the game since the beginning, just like the survivors's HUD icons.
Also, I think you don't even know what a "HUD" is. We already have a HUD. Every game have a HUD. What killers need is more info on that HUD.
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I think the level of annoyance for someone cleansing totems depends on the situation:
- If gens are being done, no one is hooked and / or some is looping the killer, that's a level 0.
- If there are two people hooked, 4 gens left, you are doing a gen and you see the other survivor cleansing a dull totem or opening a chest, that's level 9001.
In short, like many things in life, I think cleansing totems have a time and a place for it.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525319#Comment_3525319
You aren't understanding. The only reason survivors get a HUD, is because BHVR wants us to help our teammates.
The only reason survivors got the HUD Icons besides that it should have being in the game since the beginning is because people won't stop complaining about SoloQ being in disadvantage because they were unable to coordinate and that's why they lost so many games. So, now they can see how they lose because their teammates didn't touch a generator all game while still complaining about how BHVR is babying killers.
Taking that in count, I think that asking for something that also should have being in the game since the beginning, visual feedback about status effects like in any other game, is not that much.
What I recommended in the day were literally visual effects, both for status effect affecting survivors and perks affecting generators (i.e. A sea wave effect on top of a generator affected by CoB, black fog effect in front of the eyes of survivors affected by Oblivious, etc.) so both killers and survivors can make informed decisions around the different effects affecting them.
But to be real, even some icons in the HUD along a hook counter (seriously, why I have to still memorize what survivor I have hooked and how many times) would be appreciated at this point. Any QoL improvement for killers would be.
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@Gandor said:
Sure. And reduce gate opening time to 10s + make them spawn in guaranteed direct opposite of each other + create LoS blocker wall in front of it... Is that OP? So is poster's suggestion
If you add that only one gate can be opened at a time, I buy it.
It would solve so many things with the endgame for both sides + giving a reason for killers to be able to open the exit gates.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3525066#Comment_3525066
Not all companies are owned by shareholders to begin with. You only have shareholders if your company is a publicly traded company or uses one of the two company structures that give stakeholder shares to early investors rather than a flat return on investment during the start up phases of the company. You can grow a company to quite a large size before you have to consider instituting a board of directors led by a chairman. You have of course stakeholders even if you're a private company, but in that instance a stakeholder isn't necessarily someone with a direct vested interest in the company, but social group of people who are affected by the company.
Say, you open a ice cream factory in your hometown. You are the owner and the people who work for you are your employees. Those employees are also stakeholders along with their family members and generally the entire town. Now their not your investors, but if your ice cream factory does well the town should also do well. If you pollute the water table, destroy local businesses, or underpaid employees then the town suffers as a result. The town doesn't have direct vested interest, but you are still beholden to them even if not monetarily or contractually. You can decide that you don't want that to be the case and sale off your ice cream without anyone really getting in the way of that other than potentially the government.
While you do need and should suspend your disbelief because they are side stepping a lot of complex minutiae related to business and investing it isn't anywhere near as extreme as you're making it out to be. The level of wanting this hyper correct interpretation of all the most minor business stuff is wild to me. Why do y'all not ask for this level of factual realism and minute detail in any other killer's back story? Skull Merchant's back story may not be the strongest, but it isn't actually any where than when Artist was released with back story involving crows which is a species of bird that isn't found in her country. Her entire back story is centered around them.
If you don't like Skull Merchant just say that upfront and move on. It's fine if you don't like her, but y'all have chosen to fight a battle against her back story when you don't have to and seemingly lack the actual arguments to do so. Instead you retreat to the hill of "this isn't realistic" when the goal isn't realism to start with and there is realism, but since you don't like and probably don't want anything about her to be the least bit valid you're pulling at every single possible thread. That's weird behavior to engage in when you could just say "Skull Merchant is trash, imo!" and move on. You don't actually care about her lore at this point and some of y'all are displaying how deeply you are lost in the sauce to the point where you're questioning how someone can take in information and then make use of said information.
If you have a CEO, unless you are the Founder of the company and decide to call yourself that as it is an Start-up and "CEO" sound better to investors, you would have a Management Board as the sole purpose of a CEO is to be the middle point between corporate and the Director Board. It looks like this with a few exceptions:
Shareholders -> Management / Direction Board -> CEO -> Rest of the company
And if your company is so small that is not in the public trade or have any investors, then most than probably you would be the sole Owner of it and you don't even need such a title as "CEO".
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/when-do-you-call-yourself-ceo-your-startup-victoria-louise-barker
And if you are such an small company, I doubt that even Miss "Flipping and Profiting" Imai would have any interest in your company or in you, specially because it is specified that she targeted "larger-than-life" CEOs and I doubt that your local icecream shop owner would enter that definition. Not that the writers themselves ever thought about all this because again, the only thing that they thought was "This sounds so cool!" and wrote it in her lore.
Also, "stakeholders" and "shareholders" are not the same thing, as you yourself pointed out, and I don't even know why you mentioned it when it is irrelevant for what is being discussed.
Why do y'all not ask for this level of factual realism and minute detail in any other killer's back story?
I already argued about this in other post, but again, the main issue here is that an story should give you the important information that you need to have, and for it to be believable, it has to be realistic in the setup that story occurs. It doesn't need to be "at the minute" information, it is enough for the info to make sense and it is the writer's job to give and justify that information to you.
Again, the perfect example of this is The Trapper lore, where it specifies that "authorities didn't have enough evidence to link the murders to him", so, it makes sense he would be able to kill hundreds of people without getting caught. We don't need to know the exact procedure the police followed to not be able to find any proof to catch him, we only need to know they didn't found it as it makes the fact that he was able to kill so many people without being punished have sense.
So, if you give me an info you redeemed important for me to know that doesn't makes any sense, and not even try to justify "How" and "Why" it works that way, I won't believe it because it doesn't makes any sense.
And I don't dislike the Skull Merchant, I dislike the awful writing that her lore is. In fact, I think @Caiman explained it pretty well in few words: The concept for the character is good, the developing of that concept is bad. Pretty bad. Nonsensical over the top bad.
And doesn't matter how much it hurts, not liking it doesn't make you a hater. Even less so when so many people have pointed out multiple times why it is bad writing and why they don't like it.
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@Archael said:
I might read it poorely (most probable i did), but how she become owner of a company by assasinating their directors? How this works? Arent those companies had someone above those directors, like owners? But even if we assume those directors was owners od those companies... How she become owner by killing previous owners? Did she tricked them to sign an ownership for her? How? How two signatures was enough?
Also
She started a website that earn her lot of money... Okay, i can believe on this tho its stupid.
But then she learned ecnomics im school library and because of that she trippled her stockpile...
How? By reading?
After that jump in wealth, before 18, she already had money to buy small companies... How? Those money she got by reading multiply by its own? Or she performed more reading?
Okay. Lets assume that she done good investments (learned by reading ecnomic books, not by some self made brilliant ecnomic algorithm or something like that). This rises another question - why only her? If becoming self-made millionaire require only reading ecnomic books to learn how to invest, then why and how noone else did this? At least authors of those books?
All of this stinks. Its not only unrealistic, but also falls apart when trying to analize...
I think she lives inside some manga, she is some cheap manga character from world build around her. It is the only explanation.
It is pretty clear than whoever wrote her lore didn't know the minimum thing about investing, finances, the Brazilian school system or even advertisement revenue.
Do you really expect them to know how companies works? Or that the real owners of a company are the shareholders and not the CEO? Or even that who really makes the decisions in a company are the management board and not the CEO, and if he disappears they only have to elect a new one and business would continue without issue and won't change the price of "buying a company" or affect it in any way?
But "Killing the CEO to take over the company" sounds cooler than "Killed the CEO because she felt like it and then, somehow, was capable to bought enough stock from the company to take over". Because if it wasn't through stock buying, I can't imagine how there would be so many companies with management boards and shareholders willing to sell the whole thing, less so to someone that would just restructure all the company to sell it again, as all that info is public and she has done it "regularly" in the last two... Sorry! Language barrier! 7 years.
But hey, you only have to turn up your suspension of disbelief to the friking moon, dude! Do it and start to like this over the top and unrealistic writing, or you are just a hater.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gfUIOkvZYs@totallynotamegmain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524442#Comment_3524442
Clock tower? Isint that a board game 🤔
This is a port of the original SNES game that will launch in 2024, but there is also more entries with 3D graphics for PSX and PS2. Most people would know the PSX one as the original was never released out of japan AFAIK.
The SNES one is a pretty good horror game, it's impressive the kind of atmosphere it can create for a 2D pixel game even by today standards.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524435#Comment_3524435
Xenomorphs are known to attack with their tails at their most basic. Considering they chose to go with a Warrior rather than a Spitter or Praetorian or the infamous dog runner variants the tail attack makes a great deal of sense.
When it comes to the paranormal stuff, yes it is in all of the games, but it isn't in a weaponized form. It's subtext and the use of it more akin to Amnesia's in the sense that it is a tool that creates the setting rather than defines a set of abilities enemies use against you. That's has it's place, but as you can plainly see you really do not want to leave things up to the devs alone when it comes to power creation. An animatronic stops being particularly interesting once step away from the mori.
The animatronics being made of remnant metal composed of souls is a great back story. It works well in its own universe, but sadly Scott didn't really put that in the games too well. He put in the much less engaged with and far more cryptic books, comics, and coloring book. If they made a Security Breach chapter there would at least be something to inform the power of the killer and the designs are the most visually interesting, but it would still be overall just a weak chapter with at most a m1 killer.
What I meant with "Alien feeling" is literally the feeling when playing it. It just plays like any other killer and don't really feel like you are playing a xenomorph except when you are in the tunnels, as besides their tail attack they are also known for being fast and stealthy. Sincerely, a Praetorian xenomorph would have being more fitting for the kind of gameplay the Alien has here.
For the rest, I mostly agree with you, even if I still thinks an FNAF killer would fit pretty well in the game if done right.
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@FrenchBagels said:
I seriously don’t understand how rusty ass Spunktrap is an expected license for the game when his entire role in every single game is dying to a fire for three times. You’d think there’d be more fitting VG characters than him. Here I’ll name a few:
- Scissor Man from Clocktower
- Gatherers from The Dark Descent
- Stalker from The Bunker
- Boogeyman from Silent Hill
- Patriarch/Fleshpound from Killing Floor
That doesn’t count an outdated choice like Slenderman or another RE one like Jack Baker. Or anything I forgot.
Why does old man Sprungtrap deserve anything after getting himself springlocked, dying trying to harass a minimum wage worker, die by sheer incompetence for falling for a ruse, and getting dropkicked by a child and a funny bear.
If they do an FNAF chapter and they put Springtrap as the killer, now that would be a real shame.
And +1 for Scissor Man and a Clock Tower chapter.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524396#Comment_3524396
It would be cringe because in all honesty because there just isn't much there to work with.
DBD wouldn't really do a good job conveying what makes FNAF interesting and FNAF doesn't really bring anything to table to a truly unique or engaging experience. Narratively speaking, most of the best story beats and powers don't belong to the animatronics in the games, but side characters in the expanded universe novels and comics. Characters that most folks who aren't into FNAF won't know or view as important unless you're a diehard FNAF lore fan or watch Game Theory. When MatPat's doing the heavy lifting of getting your universe across to the normie populous of gaming you're probably not that interesting in your main games.
The best thing they ever made was Security Breach as it finally broke out of mold of being a stack jumpscare mini games and showcased some very minor facets of the true supernatural nature of FNAF in a tangible weaponized way, but it is also the thing FNAF fans seem to like the least.
This is a chapter that would be a big cringy nothing burger.
Sorry, but I don't agree with you, starting with DbD would make exactly the same job conveying FNAF as it did conveying Alien, in the sense that it feels and plays just like another DbD killer with a power instead of feeling like an Alien at all.
About the narrative, the first games already had a good paranormal lore in them, even if the game didn't shove it in your face and you have to fit the subtle clues you would be finding. In fact, I think that is what maintained most of the people hooked to the franchise, as like you said, the main game mechanics was simply jumpscares that get boring as soon as you get used to them... just like in DbD, ironically.
So, again, I think that "an animatronic that in reality is a device to dispose corpses possessed by the vengeful soul of a child" is a pretty cool and fitting concept for a game like DbD. They don't even have to think in the mori, as the logical thing will be the animatronic opening and capturing the survivors inside like the "meat grinder iron maidens" they are.
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Can I ask why? Leaving the most... "passionate" FNAF fandom aside, why it would be so "cringe" and unworthy of having a chapter in DbD?
After all it is still a big horror franchise with interesting characters and story, like it or not. In fact, it will be more fitting and worthy of be in DbD that other things they added like Nicolas Cage or Attack on Titan in my opinion.
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
Add your suggestions on how a small update can massively change the the player experience for the better.
Rules : it should not require major reworks and changes. And devs should not have a logical counter argument to it.
I'll toss in a few suggestions to start :
- Perma disable chat option inside options. This will disable the toggle on/off chat option.
- Hitting a survivor on the hook twice while no other survivor is within 3m of the hook will make the hooked survivor selfunhook and be given off the record trigger.
- performing two consecutive crouches inside the gates or up to 3m away from them on the outside will block the escape for that survivor for 1 minute. Will retrigger if repeated.
- any slurs and insults written in the chat will result into auto bans without any moderation.
All these cause massive goods with little to no bads.
Post your suggestions.
Adding an uninstall button to the game so you can stick to single player games. This is what others PvP games does and it works wonders in avoiding any kind of toxicity in games. If you are of those that play games before going to bed, you will even get better sleep.
Seriously, try it, is what I do when I get fed up of people in games.
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@Archael said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524258#Comment_3524258
I generally agree with You.
But i also want to put my two cents here.
We SHOULD be placing our "headcanon" in some loopholes (of course where is it possible), becaouse some lore facts are hidden and have to be found.
hidden lore of Matrix trilogy (not comfirmed) - the chosen one is Smith, not Neo.
hidden lore of Original Star wars Trillogy (comfirmed but discarded by Disney) - Luke never became a Jedi.
There is lot of other examples, and we always should look for those, not just strictly bound to written lore.
Hidden lore of Skull Merchant (not comfirmed) - Adriana is not from realworld, but from manga.
Hidden lore of Matrix Trilogy: That's absurd. Like, completely absurd and contradicted with many things along the saga including where they explicitly explain what Smith is.
Hidden Lore of Original Star Wars: Of course it was confirmed, for the simple fact that Luke never finished his Jedi training. You only need to see the movies to know that and even the Simpsons made a joke about it. If they changed that in the last trilogy then I wouldn't know because I refused to sit through that audiovisual torment.
Hidden Lore of Skull Merchant: ...
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524197#Comment_3524197
So, couple things here.
First, that hypothetical example. If the character being able to jump 10 metres was important or central in some way, and had a grounded (if exaggerated and unrealistic) explanation, sure, I'd buy it. It all depends on how it's done, why it's done, and what kind of tone it's done with. That's basically the basis for any superhero story that comes out without an attached shared universe; someone living in the real world can do things no other person can do. It isn't inherently a flaw.
Second, I've already acknowledged that part of the exaggeration is how much money she gets from certain sources. You do actually have to demonstrate that this is a flaw, though, rather than just point at it as existing. Yes, she is implied to get more money from advertising space than is strictly realistic. Does that actually harm the story? It's working on real mechanisms, it's playing on real concepts, and it's just giving them the occasional nudge. This is true of most stories in general, let alone most of DBD's stories.
For your next point, I still don't see why this is such a sticking point. Considering she already had a robust and expensive education and has been portrayed as having a keen mind in general, the idea that she'd do well with investments isn't that unbelievable. Seriously, would you rather it just didn't say she went to the library specifically? Would it improve the story for you for her to have gotten that information from somewhere else...? This is such a weird issue to take with the story, and once again is a case of something with grounded, real mechanisms behind it, this one isn't even all that exaggerated.
If six more months of company flipping would've fixed it, then the five years the lore actually says she spent (bare minimum) should render this particular complaint solved.
So, then, when we come to the idea of her not being caught, it seems like we've shifted the complaint to being that the story should've put in a line about how there wasn't enough proof to actually charge her. I'm not saying that wouldn't be better, but if it would really be fixed with such a simple addition, I feel like that addition is kind of a fair assumption to make and its absence is at worst a bit of an oversight. It's hardly a monumental failure that ruins the whole thing and it definitely isn't "bad writing 101".
Her lore says she excels at school and then very clearly states that she isn't perfect. It's not that she's so cool and perfect at everything, it's that she's good academically which translated to being good at business. I'm not even going to entertain the notion that her being good academically is itself a flaw, so what's the issue here?
She is good at the things she is shown doing, which are the things that are relevant to her character and that she should be expected to be good at. They do a perfectly adequate job setting her up as bright and educated enough to take advantage of the system around her, so the idea that she doesn't have "the required background" is a non-starter. As for not having any consequence... what consequence would actually improve this story? What consequence do most of the other killers get? Most of the early ones vanish immediately following their big crime and pretty much none of the others are caught to my recollection.
There is nothing that actually sets the Skull Merchant's lore apart from the others in terms of quality. If you don't like it, that's perfectly fine, there's plenty out there that just isn't for me either, but that doesn't change the fact that her lore is pretty par for the course when it comes to this game and isn't so heinously flawed that it deserves being torn apart over the others we've gotten.
Look, I'm not going to repeat myself, even less when you are obviously just cherry picking what I said instead to make mental gymnastic with it instead to counter argument what I'm really saying.
One example of this, is that I already specified the setup of my "hypothetical example": The real world. No superhero, no another universe with less gravity, nothing that justify for a normal, average human being able to jump that high. But, because you can't argue that point, you just picked part of it and used it to argument something that I already explained posts ago about suspension of disbelief and how the Skull Merchant lore fails to make you suspend your disbelief, including all the "Brazilian manga web page making sheer amount of money" and "Library Investment and Economics degree" part.
And no, the lore doesn't specify she was 5 years doing it:
By the age of 18, barely with a high school degree, she had already become a self-made millionaire. [...] Before long, she had the kind of money that allowed her to buy small companies—companies that she would gut, replace with non-union workers, and sell at a profit. [...] By her mid 20’s, she was regularly flipping companies.
So, less than two years, and she was doing it regularly.
Another thing you are doing, and that is the main difference between you and me, is that I'm sticking to the info the lore gives us. You, in the other hand, are adding your own bias and assumptions to it. The perfect example is that you are assuming that her "robust and expensive education" has something to do with her being able to be an expert investor, but the reality is that her lore doesn't say such thing anywhere. In fact, answering your question, it would be a much better explanation that she had learned "Finances and Economics" in that expensive academy that recruited her instead of just reading a bunch of books in a library. But they didn't write that. And it's work of the lore to give you that kind of information if it is relevant or important. So, as it says nothing about it, I'm going to assume that her education had nothing to do with her being able to learn that much of investment and economics in a library to triple her money like it was nothing, because as far as the lore told us, the closest thing she could have learned in that academy about Economics is math.
And the same goes for the "don't caught" thing. If the writers didn't thought about it or didn't saw relevant to justify why she wasn't caught, I'm not going to do their job for them. I would stick to the info they decided to give me, and that is that the only reason she wasn't caught is because she is so cool that can get away with murder without anyone noticing the obvious link between her and all those companies who CEOs disappeared.
Also, having a "keen mind in general" doesn't means that you are able to even get all the knowledge needed to do investments, much less from a bunch of books. I'm pretty sure that even Stephen Hawking had a bunch of brokers hired to invest his money for him.
And you are right, she is good at things she is shown doing, and she did everything that has being shown to us perfectly. So, you are agreeing with me that they show her as a perfect, flawless character that does everything right. Because again, in a story you should give all the relevant info about the characters that you want the reader to have, so they can have an image of them based on it. If you only show me her doing nothing but gaining net profits in everything she does, then you are painting her as the flawless character that is good at everything. And it is not only in terms of business and investments, again, it's in web designing, manipulating people, stalking them, killing them, and every other thing she does. Maybe she is bad doing crosswords or cooking, who knows... as far as the lore conveys, everything she proposed to do, does it at perfection and everything always goes her way.
You also keep pointing to her being "bright and educated" as justification for her to be able to do whatever she wants perfectly. But again, being bright and educated is just a bad generic excuse for that. There is no background to justify she being able to do all of what she does, besides her "Library Investment and Economics degree", which is able to achieve thanks to the same generic excuse. And this, again, is why her lore is bad writing, because obviously the authors never asked themselves "How", "Why", and "Would it make sense", she is simply "super cool and smart" and that's about it.
And I would continue to answer your other points, but I have already invest a lot of time in it and I think I already prove my point beyond doubt, so if someone doesn't see why the Skull Merchant is bad writing is because just don't want to see it, and that won't change whatever I say.
I will only say that I never said that the other killers lore was masterpieces or something, but this doesn't change the fact that the Skull Merchant one is just bad. But like I said, if someone likes it I don't have any problem with it.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524014#Comment_3524014
Let's go through a couple of these steps that you're calling out as unrealistic and requiring too much suspension of disbelief.
So, first, the website. I'm not sure why this is a sticking point for anyone, frankly. It was a popular website that had original content and revolved around something that a lot of people in the area enjoy, the idea that she'd make some money off the advertising space on that website makes perfect sense. It's exaggerated, of course, advertising space doesn't usually translate to all that much money irl as far as I'm aware, but that's obviously fine. It's a story and it's going for a specific tone, so exaggeration of real life elements is 100% acceptable and even better in a lot of cases.
Then, the library. People really hate this element, huh? Despite that, it's still not that unbelievable in the context of a work of fiction. There are people irl who have made millions off investment before they're eighteen. They're rare, of course, but it's happened. The idea that an academically minded and intelligent girl with an expensive education would be able to learn economics through textbooks and become good at trading is exaggerated, again, but plays on real things. This is not an unbelievable element of her story.
Then we get to the flipping companies, and here it really does just sound like you want more details. Or maybe you just think it should've taken place over a couple years instead of just one? To be fair, I think you might misremember a small detail here, because it actually says she's flipping companies by her mid 20s, implying she's at the process for a couple years. We don't need the specific granular details on how, because that kind of thing happens irl all the time. Vulture capitalism is a real thing.
Finally we have the murders, and I've expressed already that I find this critique contrived. Killers aren't caught in horror stories like this, even ones whose crimes are more exaggerated and their standing in society less protected than someone like Adriana. But, to take it seriously and answer, I don't think the lore needs to show us that she's a suspect in these investigations for us to assume that's the case. I think it's reasonable to fill in that she just doesn't leave enough evidence tying her specifically to these men. Maybe if she hadn't been swallowed by the Fog, that would've changed, but as it stands it's not a particularly flawed element of the story. It's not as though those CEOs only existed in the world to do a business dealing with Adriana, there'd be other suspects too and even if there weren't, there'd need to be some kind of proof before Adriana would be caught.
Her lore does not define has as "good at everything". It defines her as good at specifically two things: Business and murder. Since the latter should be expected of most killer lore, it really just defines her as being good at business, which it gives us some reasonable backstory to justify - she's intelligent and had an expensive education.
If it is exaggerated, then is not believable for the simple reason that is not realistic. If I wrote an story where someone that is a simple human living in the real world makes a 10 meters high jump, would you believe it? Would you accept it if I just said "Well, it was an exaggerated concept around real life things as people can jump a couple of meters into the air! You just need to high up your suspension of disbelief!", or would you still think that it is dumb?
Well, have you seen how much money do you get from a web page advertisement space? 0,008 to 0,020 dollars per add view. And this can be higher or lower depending on the location of the person that view the add, content of the page, and many many more factors. But on average, 1.000 views could pay from 0,2 to 2,5 dollars. Now, you can say "As she is so good at everything and everything she does comes being perfect, she would always get 2,5 dollars so with 100.000 she would be making 250.000!". Yeah, alright champ... but what about costs? Because even if her lore specifies that she tricked a bunch of kids to work for free in the page somehow, running a web is not free. And more visits means more bandwidth and more bandwidth means more money you have to pay!
To end it short: She getting a sheer amount of advertisement money and the web being so profitable that anybody would just pay her a good sum for it is ridiculous. But, as she is super smart, and super good, and super cool she does it with a self created web page about Brazilian manga, non of the less!
And yes, there is people that have made money in investment at 18. How many of them have being able to do that just by reading a couple of books in economics available at the local library? And the thing here is that even people with a degree in economics wouldn't be able to invest their money as a Wall Street expert, as making investments require more things and knowledge than just "Library Investments and Economics".
Oh yes, 6 months more of "company flipping" instead of just 2 years would make it have more sense and make it being better written in her lore, without doubt. And we don't need the "granulated details as of how", but as it is written in her lore, it implies that she is not "in the process", but have done it multiple times already. But again, she is so smart and cool that doesn't have to worry about legality, paperwork or cost of buying companies, rehiring all the workforce and looking for someone interested in pay for that company more of what she has spent "flipping it". Months of negotiations, meetings, permits and lawyers interchanging papers and accounting books? Nah! For her is just like eating candy.
And again, the problem is not that she isn't caught, the problem is that she isn't caught when is so obvious she has something to do with all those murders. Even The Trapper lore, who bodycount reach the 3 digits, have the decency to specify that the authorities never had enough proof to demonstrate that he killed all those people. In contrast, Skull Merchant lore implies that she killed multiple CEOs just before buying their companies and nobody sees a connection apparently. Again, it would be great that they specified "She paid the cops to never look at her with all that advertisement money she got", but it doesn't, because whoever wrote it never even thought of it. And things like that is why her lore is just pure, unadulterated, 101 bad writing.
And yes, her lore says she is so cool that she is good at everything. Both implicitly and literally:
Adriana excelled in all facets of education. A house full of art and music honed a brilliant mind, and her intelligence was only exceeded by her obsessive drive to be the best.
She was good at everything at school. She is super intelligent. She was so cool and good that was the private academy who get to her. She somehow learned web developing and created her own web. She is so cool and good at everything that she was able to convince people to work for her for free. In fact, so cool that those kids she tricked was the brazilian version of Stephen King, as the articles they wrote were so good they made her web page gain a lot of money. She is so good that learned economics by reading books in a library and transformed in the Wolf of Wall Street. So good that she controls every aspect of trade and business to the point of being able to buy and flip companies for a profit in no time. So good at everything that she decided to kill two people for the first time because she felt like it and did it perfectly and without leaving trace. So cool that he kept doing it with another bunch of people and nobody ever suspected anything when there was a clear connection to her. So good and cool that she created her own drones and Predator blades, as if her just bought them or asked a company to made them that would be another link to her and another plothole, but not even the authors of her lore even thought about it, either.
She is good at everything she does. Without having the required background to it, without having to work it out and gain it, and without having any kind of problem or consequence for anything she does. She is perfect.
She is just that cool. Or at least that is whoever wrote her lore thought. In reality, this only makes her a bad written boring character. And if you like it... hey, you do you. I also have my guilty pleasures. But nothing would change the fact that her lore is badly written and makes no sense besides being over the top with all the Brazilian manga thing.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523761#Comment_3523761
So, I went and re-read the Skull Merchant's lore just to make sure I was refreshed, after seeing this and a few other of your posts in this thread.
Nothing about my take has changed, of course. Her lore has its issues but, within a reasonable margin of suspension of disbelief, it conveys who she is perfectly serviceably.
I think part of the issue here, at least insofar as what you've said to me, is that you're expecting the Skull Merchant's lore page to bend over backwards explaining everything in minute detail, which of course wouldn't be expected of any lore for a killer people don't already hate. There are exactly two points where belief must be suspended, and neither of them are particularly devastating for a story's tone:
The first is that her website made her "significant advertising dollars"; while that's somewhat unrealistic, it's not exactly a giant break from reality. It's not too hard to believe that a popular website with original content (that she duped other kids into writing, explaining where it came from neatly) would be popular for advertising space, and the story even makes sure we know that it's the site being bought that gives Adriana enough money that she wants to show it off.
The second, as you alluded to in your responses to me, is that she gets away with murdering multiple businessmen, some CEOs, without being caught. I have very little patience for this as a serious criticism, if I'm honest. It's a horror story, of course the villain isn't caught straight away. It's allowed to be exaggerated and schlocky, and that hasn't been a problem for literally any killer up until now, and there are killers even 'worse' than her for it. I wonder what the difference is? Perhaps we'll never know. /s
Everything else, while hardly a masterpiece of prose, flows well enough. I've seen you criticise her reading up at the library, as if that's magically enough for her to become a business extraordinaire, which somewhat conveniently misses that her story establishes her - very reasonably - as already very intelligent and well educated. She already attended and graduated a prestigious school, if you recall- the stuff she read at the library, presumably, was just to get a better sense for that industry specifically and fill the gaps in her already robust education.
Is it perfect? No. Is it noticeably worse than the average killer lore in DBD? Not even close. People only think it is because they approach it with a hyper-critical gaze, and they only do that for her because they already dislike it.
I think I have explained there is more to it than simply "it doesn't explain enough" in my others responses to other people here, so read them if you want my extended opinion apart from my answer to you.
But I don't expect the lore for the Skull Merchant to be "detailed to the minute". What I said to you is that all those details that you said were "obvious to anyone reading it in good faith" wasn't there. Not a single one of them. Nothing that you said the "lore is conveying to the reader" is true, specially the "She gets away with murder because she is rich" part. So, again, that I expect her lore to have Tolkien level of details is something that you said, not me.
And the problem with her lore is that there is not enough suspending of disbelief that can make you accept her story. Because fine, she made the Holy Grail of Brazilian manga news site and made a lot of money. Now, next step: She self taught so much knowledge in economics by reading books in a library, that she became an expert Wall Street broker and triple whatever the sheer amount of money from Adsense and the selling of the web she did and become a millionaire soon after when she wasn't even 18.
I repeat: By reading books of economics. In a library. Before 18. And that alone give her all she needed to know to be able to understand the markets, how and when invest, and make millions of it... totally believable.
By the way, we have to note here that she was in the last semester of middle school a little before she made the web page. Now, this is a problem, as if it is as in USA middle school that would mean that she created that web, tricked a bunch of other kids to work for free and studied those economics with only 13 - 14 years. But, if we take in count the Brazil middle school, she would had 17 years in her last semester, meaning she would have done all that in less than 1 year. Sincerely, I don't know what is more believable of those. Or what would be worst writing, either.
All right, fine, what's next? By 20 she was flipping companies. Plural. How many companies? Who knows, a lot! Just flipping them, one after another. Screw legality, screw paperwork, screw all those months of negotiations, lawyers, market rules or all the time that it would take to just rehire the whole company with non-union workers AND sell it for a profit, as somehow, after all she would have to invest just to be able to do all that she was still able to find someone wanting to buy it all just after she did all that for even more money that she has spent. Nah, screw all that, she was just flipping them, dude! Like they were cards in a deck. In two years. And all of that while she was reading comics. She is just that good!
And so on, and on, and on. And we have to just believe and accept that she is so cool and perfect that she can do all that like it is nothing, and still have the time and ability to get her Predator blades and kill a lot of people between readings of her father's manga, or we are all haters... sure, why not.
About your next point, not much to say: You are wrong. The problem isn't she wasn't caught with murder, the problem there is that she wasn't caught with murdering CEOs of companies she is directly related to. Again, just like the "company flipping", the way it is
badlywritten implies that there was multiple CEOs killed. A lot of them. So incompetent is Brasil police that they wasn't able to deduce that the woman that bought all those companies maybe has something to do with their CEO mysteriously disappearing? It's absurd.Like I said in other posts, the lore of this character is just over the top bad writing and defines her simple as a "Good at everything" character as her only characteristic, and whoever wrote it just slapped in a lot of things that sounded cool in their heads without any thought. Simple as that.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523807#Comment_3523807
the lore implies huntress doesn't understand how to take care of the girls so they always die.
by her lore, she should know it very well. Anna is both smart and capable, and should be fully capable of caring for a child.
not gonna repeat myself again on this. it's like expecting a writer to not recognize the letter a.
caleb has 1 harpoon. he needs it back after it's used. people are now dead from the 2 inch sized hole through them. if they somehow survived the impact.
arrows are way smaller in comparison. imagine someone passed a spear through you, do you think it compares to an arrow that stopped maybe an inch or 2 deep? which is enough to still kill you btw.
let me put it this way. if the redeemer existed, it would have a nearly 100%kill rate on a hit. it not killing someone, is just the plot bending reality a bit for the character to exist in the game as he does. specially as often as the story implies it happened.
also the kickback on that thing would be ridiculous. like firing a mini cannon by hand. you are not putting that thing against your shoulder to properly aim.
but we suspend our disbelief on that, because that is what we do with stories.
I don't believe it because it doesn't sound real by any world standard.
but the eye laser shooting guy sounds real? this is just bad logic. sorry.
you are choosing to accept the character you like and not the one you dislike.
her story is saying she is that smart and capable, and showing that she is because she did what she did and got away with murder. but you say she isn't allowed those characteristics because it's not realistic.... but I guess the guy breathing in a way that his sword catches on fire is realistic?
that's just double standards. "it's fine for this thing to work in ways that aren't realistic for me, but not this one."
Oh my god... really trying to have the reason here, I see.
A rapid fire to lose as minimal time as possible with this:
That's not what her lore says. Anna is not smart and capable to care a child because all her knows is to live in those extreme conditions. She lived in those conditions, she survived in those conditions, she believes that those girl would be able to live in those conditions and they don't, something that torment her as she doesn't understand why they keep dying.
An spear is way bigger than 2 inches and what kills of an arrow, again, is removing it in a way that causes irreparable internal damage, with the head were 1.5 inches width in average. And believe or not, a 2 inches hole in the abdomen is not something irreparable because again, no vital organs or arteries go through there. Search in Google "man survives steel bar through chest". And there is in the chest, ergo, where many vital organs are.
Yes, we suspend or disbelief because the story is presented in a beliable way. But here you are, arguing against a beliavable story by making the point it is not 100% realistic. Funny.
Yes, the eye laser shooting and flying guy sounds real because it's presented in a world and in a way where it sounds real. So, unless The Skull Merchant is in a world where they pay 5000 Brazilian reales per click, the libraries have enough high level economics literature to make you a self taught Wall Street broker and police forces are so stupid they can't link a lot of CEOs disappearances with the lady that bought their company soon after then no, I don't believe a single word. It's not bad logic, is suspension of disbelief, remember? And I'm not choosing anything, it's just that a well written character would be liked and one that isn't would not. Simple as that.
What her story is saying is, again, that she is flawless to the point she can do web designing and programming, investing, run multiple companies and apparently build and use drones and double bladed wristbands to kill a lot of people and she does all that so well that she get rich and never is caught killing. Again, without any consequence, drawback and with everything going dandy. She is not just "capable", she can do all things perfectly simply because she is perfect, cool and good at everything. And again, that limits her character to just simply being "Perfect and cool", which makes her boring on top of being unrealistic.
Even the guy that is capable of lighting his sword with fire just by breathing had to train a total of 2 years to be able to dominate the breathing technique, you know? And even then, he still isn't able to fully use it in combat. That's why he is an interesting and well written character (among other things), and Skull Merchant isn't.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523728#Comment_3523728
I don't know what you understand for "survival", but she being able to survive living extreme temperatures and low food conditions doesn't means that anybody could survive in them, even less a child.
I don't know what you understand for survival, but she survived. as a child herself. she isn't stupid and her tome shows she is actually quite smart.
it makes no sense for her to just leave the girls with no food or source of warmth. it never did, it never will.
In other words, he needed multiple tries to make it non-lethal. And yes, it can be a non-lethal weapon depending on where you shot people with it. You won't kill somebody if you shoot them in an arm or a leg, or even in the abdomen if it just go through as there isn't any vital organs or arteries in the area, so just like a bullet or a knife there you have more probabilities to die from an infection than the wound or the blood loss. So again, it makes sense and it's not illogical at all.
I never said the gun was always non-lethal. I am saying it still should be. cause bloodloss, infection and several other issues still apply. specially for the time the story happens. the harpoon is thick as ######### and hits very hard.
even ignoring it hitting anything but muscle or fat, you dead. also, caleb doesn't aim for arms or legs according to the fact that he kept killing people trying it out. and those are easily missable specially on a moving target. torso hits are what he goes for.
also "even in the abdomen if it just go through as there isn't any vital organs or arteries in the area"
wanna try that again? the harpoons literally exits on the other side of people and has goddamn hooks in it..
hit the spine? most likely dead on impact
intestines? if you don't die from the internal bleeding the infections will finish the job. or from the intestines being pulled out along with the harpoon.
In conclusion: I'm not saying The Skull Merchant lore is the only that doesn't makes sense (even tho, what I'm really saying is that not only it doesn't makes sense, but also is just over the top bad writing). But the two examples that you gave makes perfect sense and are well argued in their respective lores.
they only make sense if you suspend your disbelief.
the lores just say it is how it is.
Again, what do you understand by "no food or source of warmth", as not everybody has the same levels of adaptability. Hell, there's people in their houses fighting over the air conditioner being too low or high by a couple of degrees difference and you are here questioning that one person could survive in extreme temperatures with a bonfire and a bowl of squirrel soup and another wouldn't.
So keep repeating the contrary to yourself if it makes you happy, but it makes perfect sense.
About the harpoons, an infection would kill someone in days, and there wouldn't be any blood loss as long as the harpoon is still stuck in the guy. It's just like arrows, in the sense that if the arrow doesn't hit a vital area it's not being hit by the arrow itself what kills you, but removing the arrow in a way that it would cause irremediable damage and of course, blood loss as now there is nothing in the wound preventing air for coming in and making the blood flood out. And people survived those even longer ago than the time The Deathslinger lived in, with even less medical knowledge and more rudimentary tools.
And you are saying it yourself, it is not a perfect strategy, the weapon could be lethal if used incorrectly and that's written in his lore. That's why the Deathslinger lore is believable and well written and Skull Merchant is not, because again, he wasn't a perfect man that came up with an idea for a weapon without having the knowledge to do it in the first place and it worked perfectly at the first try.
And yes, you are totally right, they make sense if you suspend your disbelief because that is how any fictional story works, and they makes you able to suspend your disbelief because the story is presented in a way that result logical in the setup it occurs. And again, this happens with any fictional story.
If you tell me that a guy can fly and shoot lasers through it's eyes because he is an alien that absorb radiation that give him powers, I believe it. If you tell me that in a world were demons exist there are people that is able to create fire from his sword and move at high speeds just by using a breathing technique, I believe it. If you tell me there is an Entity that traps killers and survivors in a pocket dimension called The Fog and makes them participate in trials for an unknown reason, I believe it.
If you tell me that there is a person who only characteristic are being cool and perfect in everything and that's why she is able to do anything she wants without any consequence or drawback, including getting rich by making a web about Brazilian manga and teaching herself economics in a library to triple the apparently sheer amount of money she got from the Google Adsense of the page... I don't believe it. Because it doesn't sound real by any world standard, even less so if you slap in there all the over the top things like "Predator wanna-be because his father was a mangaka". It doesn't makes any sense and is not realistic in any way, in addition of making her character one dimensional and not relatable as she is "perfect and good at everything" and that's about it.
So, again, bad writing, over the top setup, nonsensical development of events, unbelievable one dimensional "perfect and cool" character. That's her lore.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523692#Comment_3523692
Couple things-
Caleb's harpoon gun is very much a part of his lore, as is the fact that he supposedly wasn't killing people with it despite what it actually does. That is absolutely on the same level as some of the things people like to harp on about (pun fully intended) with Skull Merchant's lore, but that doesn't mean it's a flaw; it's fine, it's a schlocky horror plot with a clear tonal intent so you can accept some unrealistic elements.
(This is, spoiler alert, true of the Skull Merchant too.)
Won't argue on the Huntress points, that was a weak example imo.
Moving on to the Skull Merchant sections here, we're seeing a lot of reductive minimalising and also wilful misunderstanding of what the Skull Merchant's lore is conveying to the reader. Now, I'm not about to sit here and say it's perfect, because it isn't; it has some issues with putting too much emphasis on her father and not enough on her when describing her early years, and I do consider it wasted potential that the lore doesn't touch on where the drones came from-- not because that last part is a gigantic flaw, mind you, but just because it would've been interesting.
The hows and whys of Skull Merchant's lore make perfect sense, because her tonal intent is immediately obvious to anyone reading the story in good faith: It's an intentionally exaggerated story about vulture capitalism with a bit of stylistic flair in the ways that emphasise its location, IE, picking manga to be her in-universe visual inspiration because she's from Brazil, and Brazil has a big manga scene.
Her concept as a character is straightforward and easy to understand. She's the rich person who gets away with literal murder because she's rich, and she's doing it partially to benefit herself and partially because she's an obsessive, sadistic psychopath who enjoys doing it. This, at least, is conveyed in her lore very clearly. I'm surprised that DBD players have such a hard time with this considering she's the second killer to have this concept, the other being Trickster, who beggars belief far harder as to how he wasn't caught-- not that it's a problem for him, either, because a certain level of "and somehow they weren't caught" is just the barrier for entry for stories like this.
I'll restate my firm belief that people tear apart Skull Merchant's lore because they don't like her. It comes up far more than literally any other killer's lore and almost always from people who hated her visual design from the moment her trailer dropped.
Sorry, but anything you said there would make sense if there were even a glimpse of any of it written in her lore. Seriously, where did you get all that? Because the only thing we know about why she gets away with murdering multiple companies's CEOs just to buy them and get more rich without anyone saying "Hey yo, did you notice that all of this people disappeared just before Ms. Imai bought their company?" is simply that they killed them because one day she was like "Ugh, another negotiation meeting just because this guys don't want to sell?... Screw it, i'm going to get my Collector's Edition Razor-Sharp Dual Blades and kill them" and she liked it. That's it. That's the only thing the lore says to us.
It would be cool that they added something like "She paid the authorities with all her Brazillian manga money so they never investigated them", but that isn't there. Sorry, but all what you said is just your interpretation of the story with your own bias filling the blankets.
About Trickster, you are right as he was even letting clues to police and one of his last victims was a fan of him that he met. The difference with him and why is more believable than Skull Merchant one is that as far as his lore implies he just had a handful of victims (about five accounted in the lore, without counting his band and the last one were he kills the executives), so it can be that he was captured in The Fog before the police could catch him, while the Skull Merchant lore implies that she did what she did many, many times.
And I'm not going to say that some people may have a problem with her and mix in-game hate with other things, but what I'm going to say is that other people thought the lore was stupid the moment it was announced. I also don't think her visual design has nothing to do with her lore really, I would even affirm that if her lore had being any good more people would like her more despise not liking her visually.
The problem is, it wasn't. So, people that didn't like the design disliked her even more.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523692#Comment_3523692
it's in the lore. he changed the gun to not kill people. and it makes no sense how anyone survives it regardless. specially for the time the story takes place.
The other one about The Huntress is not illogical at all, and if you read her story, you would see it gives you plenty of reasoning for that to happen:
She has being living alone in the forest since she was a child. For this reason, she is more an animal than a human and knows little more about life than hunt and survive. Much less, the needs of a child.
She herself and her mother lived through extreme conditions, being the only reason of her death that they were trying to hunt an elk so they didn't starve to death. In fact, "Living in such an extremely remote and dangerous area required skill and resilience".
The girls she kidnapped "wasted away and die of cold or starvation or sickness", so we can deduce that they died mainly because of the extreme conditions The Huntress is used to live in, but not the girls, and as she doesn't know another way to live she is not capable to realize that a child needs to stay warm, stay fed, and not exposed to the winter. So, this is not illogical at all.
anna is a master survivalist. she understand how to survive and what is required to do so. she was also a kid in the jungle (maybe jungle isn't the correct word... but the place she grew up in).
it makes no sense that she would not know that she needs to feed or keep her girls warm. them dieing of some sickness is the only justified thing, but even then, anna would have to know how to fight diseases on some level. cause again, she survived while, in theory, also dealing with those for years.
people aren't stupid just cause they grow up in the woods.
wanna dislike adriana's lore? do it. but pretending it's the only one that doesn't make sense or is illogical is silly
I don't know what you understand for "survival", but she being able to survive living extreme temperatures and low food conditions doesn't means that anybody could survive in them, even less a child. Also, again, she is more an animal than anything and the only thing she knows about is living in the wild and hunt, so as she lived that way when she was a child she thinks that any child would be able to survive in those conditions like her did.
So, again, it makes sense.
And about The Deathslinger, obviously you didn't read his story well:
Use ingenuity to bring outlaws in alive.
Caleb returned to his workshop, and with a few modifications emerged with something new — the speargun. The first trial occurred when a thief robbed a Chinese laundry. Seizing on the opportunity, Caleb unleashed his prototype. Metal joints screeched as the spike shot forward, gouging into the target's abdomen. But as the spear tugged, it caught the thief's intestines, and, with an ungodly sound, yanked them onto the dusty road. After several iterations, the disembowelments dwindled, but Caleb had already earned his new nickname: The Deathslinger.
In other words, he needed multiple tries to make it non-lethal. And yes, it can be a non-lethal weapon depending on where you shot people with it. You won't kill somebody if you shoot them in an arm or a leg, or even in the abdomen if it just go through as there isn't any vital organs or arteries in the area, so just like a bullet or a knife there you have more probabilities to die from an infection than the wound or the blood loss. So again, it makes sense and it's not illogical at all.
In conclusion: I'm not saying The Skull Merchant lore is the only that doesn't makes sense (even tho, what I'm really saying is that not only it doesn't makes sense, but also is just over the top bad writing). But the two examples that you gave makes perfect sense and are well argued in their respective lores.
That, and if you're going to get shoot or stabbed, try to get it in the abdomen.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523622#Comment_3523622
wanna go over how illogical it is that anna can't care for a kid or how caleb doesn't literally kill every single person that he ever hits with his gun?
or just wanna continue having a hate boner for adriana?
Well, first of all, your second example is an "gameplay mechanic", nothing to do with "lore". Obviously, game mechanics don't need to have "realistic standards", or you should be dead the moment the killer cut you with his machete.
The other one about The Huntress is not illogical at all, and if you read her story, you would see it gives you plenty of reasoning for that to happen:
- She has being living alone in the forest since she was a child. For this reason, she is more an animal than a human and knows little more about life than hunt and survive. Much less, the needs of a child.
- She herself and her mother lived through extreme conditions, being the only reason of her death that they were trying to hunt an elk so they didn't starve to death. In fact, "Living in such an extremely remote and dangerous area required skill and resilience".
The girls she kidnapped "wasted away and die of cold or starvation or sickness", so we can deduce that they died mainly because of the extreme conditions The Huntress is used to live in, but not the girls, and as she doesn't know another way to live she is not capable to realize that a child needs to stay warm, stay fed, and not exposed to the winter. So, this is not illogical at all.
Yet again, without it being a masterpiece, The Huntress story is good and well written and presents you with a well thought argument and a good representation of the flawed character The Huntress is. The Skull Merchant, in the other hand, is a bad written story whose author dedicated to write a bunch of over the top things that thought sounded cool without ever asking itself "How", "Why" or "Would it makes sense".
All her story and character can be summed up to "She is perfect and good at everything, that's why she got rich by making a web about "Brazilian manga" and was able to kill a lot of people to steal their companies without problems or consequences, because she is cool and flawless and everything she does is pure perfection. Oh, and his father was a mangaka that disappeared so that's why she is a Predator wanna-be". That's it. That's her whole story and character there. It's boring, it's over the top, and doesn't makes any sense.
And no, this has nothing to do with just hating her for in-game reasons as this was a fact since the moment her story was announced.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522738#Comment_3522738
how do you know that? i think it is mostly a lot of killer player leaving temporally to play TCM. if a lot of high mmr killer player leave, survivor queue times become longer because matchmaker has to search for killers that are worse for survivor to get games. if TCM becomes competitor to dbd, then dbd has to be somewhat careful. dbd never had to be careful in bleeding out players because DBD was only game to offer dbd type gameplay.
Well, you only have to see the Steam player charts to see that he is wrong, so the answer is "he doesn't know".
Either way, I don't think that TCM would become a competitor to DbD for the simple reason that it is a license game, meaning: What other content they would add to the game in the future? They already have the family and maps from the movie, what kind of other and interesting killers and maps they can add?
In other words, I don't see TCM having a long future, as the moment the game starts to get stale with the same content most of the people would just stop playing it. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they add things to the game to maintain it fresh, but right the logic says that sooner or later people will get bored of it.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522445#Comment_3522445
It's not the devs responsibility to cater to individual players.
The problem is there arent enough killers.
The solution is getting more people to play killer.
There's already a 100% bonus incentive to play the role in need. If that's not enough I don't know what would be.
"Lower the queue time" yeah that suggestion is about as good as "just fix the game".
The problem is that people don't want to play killer right now because:
- Using a killer without chasing power would mean struggling to get a 2K.
- People use the few killers capable of downing the Hitproof Usain Bolts with X-Rays that survivors are right now (WoO + MFT / Buckle Up + FTP / Etc.)
- They still struggle to get a 3K before survivors get the gens done in 5 minutes or less.
- They start to do camping and tunneling to get it.
- Survivors start complaining they always see the same 3 killers, about the camping and tunneling and how killers are OP.
- Killers get frustrated.
- Killers stop playing for a while or just play survivor.
- Killers try again.
- But using a killer without chasing power would mean struggling to get a 2K.
- People use the few killers capable of downing the Hitproof Usain Bolts with X-Rays that survivors are right now
- They still struggle to get a 3K before survivors get the gens done in 5 minutes or less.
- They start to do camping and tunneling to get it.
- Survivors continue to complain about how they always see the same 3 killers, the camping and tunneling and how killers are OP.
- Killers get frustrated.
- Killers notice there is a new asymmetric horror game in town.
- Killers go to try that other game.
So, here we are!
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522562#Comment_3522562
DBD's player numbers haven't changed in the slightest with the TCM release. The phenomenon you're witnessing (longer queue times for survivors) is what we call survivors having a bunch of busted perks released back to back.
I won't say "in the slightest" exactly. Only in steam right now is in it's lowest point in the last year:
An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.If you see the chart for this month, you would see that the highest and lowest points are also lower compared to before the 18:
An ongoing analysis of Steam's player numbers, seeing what's been played the most.And this is only Steam. As we don't have the data of other platforms, we didn't know exactly how much difference in total there is. Nobody is saying "TCM is killing DbD", but denying the obvious (current balance state of the game included) is not the way to go.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3521912#Comment_3521912
Ahhh so as a consoler I'll never see this? Bummer.
So seeing such a ban history would be yet another reason a killer would dodge a lobby huh?
Not even Steam players would ever see a VAC ban in this game for the simple reason that this game don't use VAC, afaik.
DbD uses EAC (AKA Easy Anticheat), which honor it's name by being one of the easiest anticheats to bypass in the market right now. It's like having 4 locks in the main door but every time you go out you leave all the windows open.
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Also, make the auras always render on top of other auras so they aren't occluded by anything else.
@mizark3 said:
While I agree, this still won't strictly help certain colorblind gamers. I'd prefer Survivors to have something like the anniversary crown built-in to aura reads. You could still see someone's foot under the gen, so this isn't giving Killers anything they didn't already have, but this just helps with quicker visual clarity seeing something like the crown or a speech bubble above them.
Another option would be just let us chose the colors of the different auras to our liking. This plus rendering the survivor / killer auras on top of everything would lead to more customization, better reading and letting colorblind people to do their own "accessibility color profile".
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@Hanuka5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522684#Comment_3522684
I think you dindt played against the nightmare or doctor alonger time. Same as Doctors addons "CALM" let you hear a distance terror radius (not a lullaby), is it with the nightmare too. The nightmare has Lullaby + distance TR.
So, what you are asking for is either for them to remove the Oblivious status effect
No thats not what im asking.
Em... no, you can't hear the Terror Radius of Freddy in the Dream World because again, you are afflicted with Oblivious and Oblivious prevents you to hear it.
Simple as that.