Ayodam
Ayodam
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I wanna say at least one dev has stated there is no way to prove intent behind that (did a person deliberately miss their skill checks or were they just unskilled at hitting them?) which prevents them from “punishing” it. Additionally, there’s no rule that says survivors must remain in a match once hooked. I believe one response Peanits gave to the scenario was that if a person dies early on hook consistently in your games, it may be worth considering a playstyle and perk setup that focuses on your individual path to escape (paraphrasing).
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@canonjack001 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650385#Comment_3650385
it would be a normal distribution that the low and high MMR are always the smallest percentage groups.
We don’t really know what the cut offs are for low to mid MMR. More players could be in the “low” MMR category than mid.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650386#Comment_3650386
Nope. Stats are from last month. From Dec 30 to Jan 29
Ah. Well, maybe it’s residual contempt for her. But she’s still able to 3-gen pretty well.
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@Nebula said:
I’d love for the hook bubbles to be removed. I honestly have zero idea why they’re even in the game and it takes away from the value of perks like kindred.
And I’m sorry to hear about your migraine problems, most of my family deals with them and I know how destructive they can be to your everyday life, hope you find some relief. My mom has consistently dealt with these for 30 years now and has recently found that electric stim therapy around the base of her neck and above her eyebrows has done a pretty good job of subsiding them, as apparently it can reduce the production of a certain chemical that can induce migraines.
When the hook bubble was added to the game there was no mention about it. It just showed up after a PTB one day. Many people believed for a long time it was a bug. Much later a dev or two clarified that the hook bubble is intentional but didn’t really give a solid reason why. I’m thinking it exists to lowkey counter kindred & give the killer some stealth.
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@Birdbeka said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650848#Comment_3650848
No date confirmed, but slipknot has been having some issues with licensing and bandmembers recently and im worried as I love the band and desperately want the collab to come to fruition
What kind of issues?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651270#Comment_3651270
Its always been counted before.
Pre-MMR it was counted. It also says "Escaped" at the end of the match when you leave via hatch.
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3651299#Comment_3651299
But do we have confirmation on how it is counted in these stats? Due to the mmr changes, this could be different as well. Do you have any confirmed insight on that?
It’s never been clearly stated by the developers that hatch escapes counts toward escape rates, despite the endgame tally screen saying “escaped”. We know for sure hatch escapes are a null as far as MMR goes. I’m willing to bet hatch escapes, considering they’re a null as far as MMR goes (which correlates to escape rates) do not count toward escape rates. I wanna say something similar was either implied or outright stated about slugging and kill rates but I could be incorrect about that part.
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From what I’ve seen kill rates are just a few percentage points higher than they were 6-12 months ago, so I don’t really believe that survivors failing skill checks on hook has skyrocketed kill rates. And there’s nothing you can do to stop it anyway. But you’ve got two ways to deal with it:
1.) If you feel you’re unable to escape matches because somebody else died early and you’re that reliant on other players to escape, craft a build and a playstyle that can help you individually escape your trials.
Or 2.) Join a SWF.
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Those stats seem to be mostly from before her rework? She can still 3-gen really well now but isn’t as grueling to face as before the changes.
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@canonjack001 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650378#Comment_3650378
I think low and high MMR are the smallest percentage groups. Majority of players are in the average MMR bracket.
Peanits specifically said high MMR makes up an extremely small portion of the player base. He did not say that about low MMR.
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@canonjack001 said:
It is meaningless stat while the strongest killer got almost lowest kill rate.
Obviously they need to exclude low MMR match to make it meaningful.
That exclusion makes no sense. Low MMR makes up a greater share of the population than high MMR. It seems like excluding low MMR would corrupt the data—and it still wouldn’t mean that killers are somehow weak, as they’re still around 58-60% kill rate at high MMR based on the survivors’ escape rate at high MMR.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650208#Comment_3650208
Seeing it like this really shows that the game is pretty balanced right now. You escape just a little under half your games which I think is pretty good.
It’s an assumption you could make for SWF. As Tooth stated you don’t really know how many, if any, of those survivors who escaped 13/30 matches were solo queue players. Going by the data provided initially it would seem most of them were not.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649201#Comment_3649201
I agree with that but what you said before sounded a lot like you made some mistakes. Reflect on your own games for a bit. Do you really play flawless? Or are you, like the rest of us, just a normal player, who will make some mistakes? It's easy to say one is high MMR and plays as good as tournament winners, but in most cases this is simply wrong.
The chances that you are such a player are rather low, which isn't something to be ashamed of. It's just the truth. Not everyone can be a tournament winning basement dweller.
Pretty sure OP has stated before he’s a comp (or was?) DBD player. I asked for proof but he never provided anything. Just FYI.
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I like Pyramidhead. His add one need work for sure, but I think his power is mostly OK. He’s so rare though I honestly think I’ve only seen him once in the last 6 months.
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Why did they even nerf his butt? He’s meant to be a sexual symbol anyway.
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@Seraphor said:
3 gens aren't meant to be easily beatable, they're meant to not be an infinite stalemate.
If the killer isn't committing to chases and only defending gens, then two or more survivors will repair the gens if they focus on tag-teaming the two furthest gens and running away as the killer approaches.
If the killer is using a 3 gen for pressure and scoring hits/downs in the process, then the killer is using the 3 gen as intended.
The anti-3-gen regression limit is not supposed to be an automatic win for the survivors.
They were never infinite. Game ends at 59:59 on the clock. The 3-gen solution was meant to prevent games from dragging out beyond the average match time bhvr intends (15:xx IIRC?)
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3645640#Comment_3645640
Well the ''need'' for tunneling has been tarnished quite a lot by killers using it to excuse bad gameplay. Removes the validity just like when gen-rushing was exaggerated. But you're right, it's the only effective thing against SWF. That's why I wouldn't mind a compensation for removing the playstyle.
What if I told you SWF was the anathema to tunneling you’re looking for?
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It does periodically become F2P (epic games). People say that brings an influx of cheaters. But it probably isn’t F2P because of profit motives.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632145#Comment_3632145
Holy cow. Have you read that post before you sent it? Maybe leave your superiority complex out of this. You do not "grace" anyone. None of us do. You're not that important and neither are any of us. You're just a random person on the internet and so are the rest of us.
Also seeing as you were pretty passive aggressive towards @radiantHero23 here, I can see why he felt ganged up on. Especially with multiple people at once arguing against him. He made a claim. You disagree. That's fine. Why get all high and mighty about it?
We have had our disagreements but at least we've kept it rather civil. But here you get all condecending. This is not how a constructive argument works.
So a couple of things: it’s not really about being high and mighty. That is your perception. But know that if I felt it, I wouldn’t have engaged with him at all.
I’ve also been quite civil. I met that individual with the same attitude & presence he brought to me, but I presume you overlooked that. Additionally, three other people responded to Radianthero directly challenging his opinion—including one other person who pointed out that his stance was constructed in a way that left people thinking something other than what he presumably meant to imply.
If you read the entire exchange you might see where I figured out what he meant several comments after my first comment (that he responded to), because he clarified himself. I even agreed with him at the point where it was clear what he meant because I believe that. And then he become passive-aggressive and rude (or did you miss that “thanks”? 😏). So he got that attitude back.
As for him feeling dogpiled, I am one of four people who responded to him. Believe it or not but we didn’t conspire as a group against him. He made a poorly explained comment that left people thinking he meant X when it seems he really meant Y, so they responded accordingly. It’s no one’s fault he was misunderstood except his own.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632289#Comment_3632289
You dont get it, do you.
First of all: I NEVER said that I'm a survivor main. Never. I said that I play soloq and killer both.
Saying that swf communication helps with a lot of the problems that soloq survivors and survivors overall have in the game is an opinion. An opinion, people can get behind or not. Some people actually do, think that or not. I'm not forcing it on you. I'm discussing it. That's what the forums are for.
You continued to call me out and blame me. For having an opinion.
I also have other opinions. For example to make some sort of reward for the killer for hooking different people, therefore incentiviaing the killer to NOT tunnel.
I see the game as a whole. Not as : "one side vs other side". We are all players. Some play this, some play that. Making the game more enjoyable for both sides is the only way to go.
You insulted my argumentation skills and my efforts to include myself into conversations and discussions to make a change. Yes, insulted. I genuinely feel, that I had a lot of open minded discussions with people and that I also helped to change some things in regards to the game (Sadako).
Saying that "it's unreal to see that anyone thinks that..." is a horrible start if you want to engage with someone in an argument. You simply state :"you are wrong and everyone else sees that your wrong. Your opinion therefore doesn't matter". Everyone's opinion matters. My opinion has just as much weight to it as yours.
So don't give me any "freebies" of yours if I don't want them.
At least we can agree on one part. The role you play doesn't make your takes on the game overall invalid.
I couldn’t care less what role you play or how you play it, and I’m not interested in going back and fourth with you. You seem to be personalizing this discussion. That’s going to be where this conversation ends for us.
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@Volcz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632295#Comment_3632295
I like to focus on winning/efficiency. What you should be doing, what you are doing, what you aren't doing. Gambling a 4% vs a 96% not only shows me you are incredibly selfish but you aren't someone who cares about winning or efficiency. Its principle really. If I'm running over to you to save you, the last thing you should do is spit in my face and try that 4%. And the audacity to expect a heal afterwards, sheesh.
We may lose from them dying on hook, but in the end they shouldn't have tried that 4%. There's been plenty of matches where someone's died early at 3-4 gens and we still make it to end-game or we get out. Its not a loss automatically. The lesson they learn isn't mine to teach. I just don't care about saving players that play like that. Like I said, if you want to try your fancy 4% in a teammate's face, go right ahead. Just don't be mad or surprised when they decide not to save you.
& don't get me wrong. I still play the match out and try to my best extent. Its not like 'oh he's dead now, we lose. Lets just run at the killer and get put on hooks'.
I mean that’s a fair response tbh. I have interrupted a 4% attempt with a save b/c at the very least it’s canonfodder that lasts a bit longer so I can try to escape. But I get why you wouldn’t go in for the save if they do that in your face.
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Basically. But they’re still fun to face. 😆
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Because they want the BP and think it is risk-free, because they will be unhooked anyway.
If they unhook in front of me, I will not heal them and I will also not go for an Unhook on their second stage. And if they bring themselves into second stage with this, I will not unhook them at all, because they were that stupid. (Being so greedy that you lose a Hook Stage for those 1500 points is just...eh.)
Sometimes I also think they should just be left on the hook for trying, but the problem is, you shoot yourself in the foot with doing that.
@Volcz said:
Because they want to be selfish. Nothing more to it than that. If they fail the 4%, they say oh well I'm about to be saved.If they successfully unhook themselves, they get more points & you have just ran there for no reason.
You do that in my face and I will immediately turn around and go back to a gen, I don't care. "Because its fun" is complete BS. People do it because they feel safe to do so, knowing they'll be off the hook either way.
If you really think its because its fun, well keep doing it. But don't be mad or surprised if a teammate changes their mind in saving you.
@Jacho said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632171#Comment_3632171
Then tell me how I'm supposed to play with people
Perhaps I should just try to unhook myself in front of others as well, and maybe even wait in a corner during the whole game to get the hatch
Surely this will make you happy as a teammate
My thing is if you don’t save them or they don’t save themselves now it’s at best a 3v1. So you still lose in the end. What lesson did they learn exactly? It seems more harmful to the survivor team than that individual player to abort the save b/c they’re gambling hook states with a 4%.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632267#Comment_3632267
In terms of categorizing me and calling me out, I wasn't referring to you friend or @MikaelaWantsYourBoon but to Ayodam. But I hope that this topic is off the table now. It has no place here. I always want to discuss things respectfully and therefore I enjoy interacting with you and @MikaelaWantsYourBoon very much.
I'm fine with ds being 5 seconds. I just don't think that this will solve the problem effectively. Bbq old bloodpoint bonus could be made a basekit mechanic. The more different people the killer hooks before someone is dead, the more BP they shall receive. Sounds like a good incentive to me.
With your last point I absolutely agree!
First of all, I didn’t categorize you as one thing or another because your role preference is frankly irrelevant, as I went on to state in a follow up comment. You don’t get some sort of immunity from ill-conceived takes or spewing killer main talking points because you play more survivor.
Secondly, I used your point to more broadly identify a trend: a lot of people who are killer mains share the exact line of logic you produced, regardless of your personal claim that you’re a survivor main. And that’s true. Here is the original comment for your recollection:
”It’s so interesting to watch you debunk Radianthero’s argument that comms are this magical bullet that just totally renders survivors immune to the drawbacks of playing survivor. Like it’s surreal anyone thinks that but it’s really the mindset of a lot of killer mains here.”
To juxtapose, @GeneralV is a killer main but routinely advocates for buffs/improvements for survivors. Survivor/killer takes are not role specific.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
5 seconds is all this perk needs.
It seems incredibly unlikely that BHVR will do that at this point. Even if they do, it's somewhat sad if the upcoming road map means it took almost 2 years to change this one number back.
Yeah, DS needs more than 5 seconds. That’s definitely not gonna stop a tunneler—especially if they’ve zoned a survivor to the increasing number of map dead zones we’re seeing.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632125#Comment_3632125
Oh nice, now its not witch hunting anymore?
I said, that playing swf with voice communitcation does not make these problems go away, it makes them less impactful in regards to winning the game. This does not make them more fun all of a sudden.
Please dont start to gang up on people if you want a logical discussion. Thanks
Witch hunt? Hon, I don’t personally believe you play more survivor. My acknowledging that bit at all was giving you grace you haven’t earned. That was your freebie.
I don’t see anyone ganging up on you. But if you believe that to be happening, order your thoughts before you express them so people more accurately understand your disjointed, half-cocked points. That advice is also free of charge. You’re welcome.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631796#Comment_3631796
Wow... Thanks. Thats comment feels good @Ayodam .
If you want to make this a "hey, lets look at this dirty killer main, he thinks SWF is the solution to all survivors problems. He cant be real!" - thing, then im sorry to dissapoint you. I play a good amount of soloq and killer both. Just because i have a certain opinion about the game doesnt degrade me in comparison to other players or people here on the forum and also does not make it ok to gang up on me. If this is the level, we are going to, ill stop arguing with you. I have no intention of taking part in a discussion with someone that supports this kind of behaviour. Even if i respect their opinion. Sorry not sorry. Really hope, i took that statement the wrong way.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631789#Comment_3631789
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631786#Comment_3631786
What i meant is, that SWF communication helps out in thses scenarios. It does not make them more fun. That much is true. I mostly looked at the point of handling the situation with regards of winning the match. Not in regards of the fun for all players in the match. Tunneling is unfun (at least for most people). Camping is unfun. Some killers are unfun. Some maps are unfun. Swf does not make these problems go away, it makes them more tolerable to deal with. A good swf on voice communicaiton WILL have a way better time when dealing with these unfun situations.
Solving these problems involves a more complex solution i feel like.
- Its not done with removing killers from the game or changing them so much that they become unrecognizable for the people that enjoyed them. The best that can be done is reworking them slightly to make them more healthy.
- Its not done with putting a jungle gym in every dead zone. Even a LT will not please a lot of people so where do we start? Almost everyone agrees, that Garden of Joy is not fine in terms of pallet spawns, loop design and especially the main building.
- Its not done with giving DS 5 seconds again. There will always be people that tunnel and the reward ( someone leaving the match and making it a 3v1) is still too big without any alternative. If the killer player wants to win, they WILL play optimally. Currently, and as long as i have been playing, the most optimally playstyle for killer is also unfun for survivor. Same way is the most optimally way to play as survivor very unfun for the killer. Making a liscensed perk that people have to pay for a bit stronger IS NOT THE BEST WE CAN DO. There has to be something that incentivices the killer player to go for other survivors. This does not have to be slowdown or as strong as getting into a 3vs1. Just something to making hook spreading worth it. Currently it punishes the killers time investment rather than making them progress their objective. Otherwise i dont think tunneling will see a decrease in popularity.
There will always be people that complain about things. Thats normal. I complain too! I complain about unfair loop design for m1 killers. I complain about the shack and its design. I complain about coldwind long tiles. I complain about Blights ridiculous state. I complain about Nurse power. I complain about Myers being awfully weak without a certain addon. I complain about Sadakos original rework. I complain about Freddy's awful state.
I complain just as much as the rest. But i try to see the facts and see solutions with logic. A survivor killing themselves on first hook, beccause the killer is a Xenomorph is not logical for me. Its a subjective opinion about a character in a video game that the player doesnt like. Therefore the other players have to dislike the match against the Xenomorph as well because one player was entitles enough to say: "Yeah, im out!". Thats not logical to me.
A SWF winning in 4 minutes because of items, a map offering and callouts just to mock the Ghostface-player in end game on how bad they played. Is also not logical to me. These players clearly wanted to win extremely badly. Thats fine. Whats not fine is the lack of self reflection on the stuff that made this win possible and the lack of a fight, the Ghostface was able to put up.
Same goes for Killer, because for some, im a dirty killer player that only sees the killer as a victim and the survivors as evil incarnate.
Its not ok for a Killer to look up the profile of the survivors pre match and single out who to tunnel based on who has the lowest hour count. That is just despicable behaviour. People want to play the game. Not targeted because of their playtime, culture or name. A killer proceeding to "hump" a survivor because they made a misplay and calling them on how bad they played in end game chat is also not ok. Especially not if the killer player played a strong killer with a map offering and strong addons on top of it.
Rant over.
Why is tunneling such a problem right now?
- Not enough punishment for tunneling
- Not enough information for the killer on the progress of the game
- No worthwhile alterinative
- Hooking individual people before sacreficing a survivor punishes the killer more than it helps them
- Survivors sticking to gens, ignoring side objectives like healing, chests or totems
- Strong maps making chases take too long for the killer to handle (pre dropping on some maps is more than enough)
- Some killers are especially good at it (Wesker, Pyramid head, Nurse, Blight, Spirit)
How do we fix it? Some ideas:
- Making the killer a bot (100% success rate to work while also killing th egame in the process)
- Nerfing killers that are epsecially good at it
- Giving the killer some form of incentive to go for multible people
- Giving the survivors some form of tool to deal with it (should NOT be abusable like how DS was in its prime)
- Giving the killer pre lobby information on whether they face a swf or not
Are these the best solutions? NO! Of course not. Its more complicated than that.
As I said, all the problems that are related to players "fun" are hard to tackle because what is and isnt "fun" is very subjective. This does not mean that any opinion has less worth.
It doesn’t really matter what role you claim to play more. Playing one or the other doesn’t preclude anyone from having a bad take about that particular role. Anyway, your argument appeared to be that SWF ameliorates the issues survivors face. Two people pointed out how that is incorrect. It may have been that you were unclear with what you meant, but Firellius and Mikaela are both still right—SWF doesn’t negate the inherent issues with playing survivor. You’re correct however (now that you’ve clarified your position) that a SWF can help make those scenarios initially described somewhat more bearable.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631836#Comment_3631836
This would not work for killers like Nurse, Wesker, Chucky, Blight, Billy and any killer who has power allow them move faster.
Their power is shut down for the 10 second duration as well. Shut. It. Down.
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I’d make it hinder the killer for X amount of seconds following the stun. You can keep the stun for 3 seconds or whatever but then the killer is hindered for 10 seconds after they’ve been stunned.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I don’t think it’s a great perk but I do think it’s still a buff overall compared to the original. They also changed it so you see auras of generators within 36 meters while being chased, which admittedly is nice and makes it a little easier to use.
I liked the original more. They nerfed the % bonus it gives but expanded the range. If anything I guess it’s a lateral change. I wouldn’t call it a buff though. That’s way too generous. Because it’s still like risky to being a killer near gens being completed.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631778#Comment_3631778
Being on comms doesn't fix the problem. Yes, maybe you can coordinate a better save against that one Wesker that tunnels at 5 gens, but it still won't be enjoyable.
Even if I play with friends, it isn't fun to deal with Coldwind's deadzones, nor MacMillan's new tiles and worse layouts.
A full squad can avoid the problems of MMR, but everything else is there. SoloQ suffers more because it always does, but SWFs aren't immune to it, my friend.
Issues that affect the survivor side affects all survivors.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631783#Comment_3631783
And i just disagree with that. Tunnelling, strong anti-gen on strong killers, dead zones are problem for SWF teams too. It does not matter if you are SWF or Solo, those things will suffer you.
The only thing SWF teams does not suffer is matchmaking. That's all.
It’s so interesting to watch you debunk Radianthero’s argument that comms are this magical bullet that just totally renders survivors immune to the drawbacks of playing survivor. Like it’s surreal anyone thinks that but it’s really the mindset of a lot of killer mains here.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631576#Comment_3631576
This notion is just false. I'm tired of seeing the ol "you can't make people play the game"
If people can't freely leave the will eventually opt to try and play it out instead of just do nothing. I know it's the dbd community and there's nothing to expect from them as people but if they can't just get out instantly then they would just waste a bunch of time trying to go next. Any real person would continue forward.
League is the so called "most toxic player base" but You can't flame much and you can't leave at all. You would be surprised to know that I very rarely get people trolling because of that fact.
All these dbd vets are just making excuses about this subject.
Play the game, it's not so miserable that you need to leave when the average game lasts 10 min max. Even if you find it so miserable you need to leave the game there is essentially two free dcs a day.
There are so many options to stop this never ending cycle of tilt which is caused by the ability to dc for free on the survivor side. If in my first survivor game someone dcs another player will be mad, if it happens again they will follow suit to not waste their own time. All this system does is cause a self-perpetuating cycle of tilt which does far more damage than anyone here comprehends.
Whatis a lot harder to do is to make people be efficient. One person who refuses to help out on the survivor side means they lose and I really don't know what to do about that besides add a bp counter per min starting after 2 min into the game that you must adhere to. Remove bp from cleansing totems(not hexs) and opening chests, anyone who's not actively in chase will be on a timer to actually progress the game or get a penalty. Remove noed if you want so there is no argument against it, I don't care.
You can stop this non-sense. Unless you abuse it your self there is no reason to defend it. It can be dealt with and for the longevity and the playability of the game I hope these changes get implemented in someway at some point.
It's truly sad the devs or at least some who post on the forums believe they can't make a difference in this regard. A true pity.
This isn’t true. People cannot be made to participate in an *online video game*. They will find their way out, they will not suddenly become great contributors to the game. Did that even sound reasonable coming out of your mind?
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I thought it was the permanent aura reading that was the buff—not the bonus speed to repairing generators. I guess it depends on which version we’re talking about. If the devs reverse any part of its buff it should be what they most recently buffed (the permanent aura reading, the repair percent bonus was just 1% between the last two versions). Otherwise, it’s just nerfing the perk back to uselessness.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631111#Comment_3631111
That was never in question, nor in debate. Blight is a better Killer than Trapper but doesn't deter from the point.
Also, it's not always about how bad a Survivor is that determines a viable Killer; it's skill in general on both sides, alongside rng and many other factors that determines a game. The losing side isn't always bad.
Sometimes the winning side is just better. But I like how Sava pretty much re-emphasized that certain (I guess ‘B or lower’) killers are only viable if survivors are really bad. Didn’t the best team in the world lose to a Skull Merchant though? 🤔
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3631169#Comment_3631169
That isn't how map offerings work.
What is your definition of an M1 Killer? I thought most agreed an M1 Killer is one that can only down survivors through basic M1 attacks.
I could swear not Queen mentioned waaay back when that the killer’s map offering had greater weight since they could only produce one while survivors could together produce 4. And no people don’t agree on that. An m1 killer is a killer with no anti-loop abilities. To say an m1 killer is a killer who can down only by m1 would mean there are only three non-m1 killers (?) in the game & that the best killers are just m1 killers… that everyone screams are the weakest killers and need colossal buffs. See how the argument falls apart? Look at it crumble.
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@Peanits said:
It really depends on the person.
Some people are more competitively minded, and in their case, they might want to have a higher rating so the matchmaker gives them tougher opponents. Others are more casual and don't want the stress of those high end competitive matches. For them, going out of their way to increase their rating would be counterproductive. A higher rating would give them tougher matches and feel more punishing unless they play seriously.
At the end of the day, it's a number that tries to find you a roughly even match. A big part of the reason why we don't show it is because we don't want to pressure people into going out of their way to raise it. It's meant to adapt to you, not for you to adapt to it.
Can you mention again publicly (even here) how few players are at the MMR cap? You told us before very few players are high MMR but it seems like every nearly every player on this forum claims they’re at top MMR.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630930#Comment_3630930
Im so sorry to play that card, but against the teams i go against, when im playing Freddy, im losing 2 to 3 gens for my first down. Thats an m1 killer against map offerings for you.
Do you play maps? IIRC, killer’s map offering supersedes the survivor’s offering. May help. And also Corrupt helps to mitigate Freddy’s slow start. Also Freddy is (poorly) anti-loop. He isn’t an m1 killer.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630701#Comment_3630701
But what if you get ionto the 3v1 and you have 1 gen left that is already being worked on because the survivors are coordinated and you are playing someone like Freddy?
It doesn’t really matter how coordinated they are. You can still tunnel/camp one survivor out at the start of the match and that’s going to severely hinder the survivors. At best they’ll have two people working on gens at any given time. And even if you’re playing Freddy, you’ll still win the war of attrition. Survivors will run out of resources, you’ll outpace them (bloodlust), they’ll make some sort of mistake that nets you a down. Any killer can employ this strategy. It’s why tunneling is complained about so much.
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@Huge_Bush said:
I don’t think tanking your MMR would do anything and I don’t think the problem is MMR. I think the problem is that there are not enough suitably skilled killers to be matched against the skilled survivors and matchmaking widens its parameters and in order to have shorter Queues.
The solution is difficult because they’d have to make playing killer more attractive than it currently is for new players. Maybe even advertise the game more. I don’t watch tv anymore and I gave adblockers out the wazoo for my browser so I don’t see commercials anymore. Do they even have dbd commercials?
The tin foil hat in me is more sinister and suggests it’s all intentional so the SWFs who spend $$ on cosmetics can be more happy with their wins and play/buy more. But I’ll file this under intrusive thoughts.
There are likely more killers operating at higher MMR than survivors. Krazzik’s experience seems exceptional. If survivors were in anyway outpacing killers then the 60/40 ratio would be for survivor wins versus killer wins. But that isn’t the case. They need to make survivor the more attractive role hence the recent (over the last 12-18 months) installation of base kit features that address major survivor gripes.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630486#Comment_3630486
Is it stupidly op though?
I feel it mostly as an necessary evil in my matches. If survivors get too efficient for me to handle, something that can easily happen as a pig player, i need to resort to unfun strategies to have a chance at winning.
Sometimes it workes out, sometimes it doesnt.
it is. If you make a 3v1 at 3-5 gens you’re guaranteed the win as killer unless you like go out of your way to throw.
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
Would be the same as old dc back in the day. Survs dont make a loop and instantly bleed themselves out . Wouldnt be good for the game
I disagree with this. For one thing survivors only bleed out when they’re slugged. For another, that survivor who would hypothetically bleed themself out for not making a loop could just… die on hook seconds later unless the killer intended on slugging them for four minutes. Which is absurd.
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It’s kind of based on their shoes/cosmetics.
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@GeneralV said:
And the thread became another "Us vs Them", of course. All because of a mechanic that won't affect regular trials.
I know this pill is hard to swallow, but killer has been fully playable and winnable for years. This new mechanic is not going to change that.
Some are decrying this yet to be released feature as a nerf to their play style. Others, who perceive this yet to be released feature as a stability tool to their side, are going to push back against that. Perhaps it’s tribalism, but maybe it’s just that both sides dislike the idea of being limited by in-game mechanics.
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@TSQuint said:
I agree with everything you said. There's just one problem: SWF. The root of every problem with any perk, add on, killer power, or map had been because of a SWF group abusing it. BHVR has no choice but to try and caudle players who only use killer and punish survivors who only or mostly play solo.
I haven't played in months after having this game since late 2016 because of these ongoing problems. You have people in this forums defending lazy gameplay with their lives now.
Tbh SWF is the only thing that saves survivor gameplay. I think if it were hampered in any meaningful way, people would likely begin to really stop playing survivor.
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Self care.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629055#Comment_3629055
They could have easily knocked out that center gen if they actually tried, and with the other gens spread out like they were, that may have been walking miles as an m1 killer with no map traversal power.
That's kind of an argument in favour of the new system though, because if they had closed that gen out earlier, you wouldn't have gotten to the number you did.
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3629055#Comment_3629055
Now someone might say, "Oh, you won, so who cares?" Yeah, I won because the Survivors were making some serious blunders and also didn't have tool boxes or gen rushing perks. On any other match, this could have easily been a loss. They were more interested in playing altruistic than actually doing the objectives. They could have easily knocked out that center gen if they actually tried, and with the other gens spread out like they were, that may have been walking miles as an m1 killer with no map traversal power.But if they were actually gen rushing, would you have ever had time to get to 8?
That's the loop everyone has been going in since the 3 gen mechanic was announced. As a killer to trigger it through normal gameplay requires the survivors to play really poorly, in which case the killer has the game in hand already.
Can you all explain to me why these killer mains insist that survivors are somehow in a good spot if the killer is kicking the same gen 8 times? It just seems like the survivors are throwing the game from my perspective, and I can’t imagine losing a game as any killer under such a circumstance. But it appears to be a major concern for the killer mains here and on Reddit. Why?
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@MrDrMedicman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628883#Comment_3628883
Someone has never played killer in high mmr, and it shows
I like how you just called yourself out. Saved me the trouble.
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@MrDrMedicman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628630#Comment_3628630
Completely ignores the killer side that goes like this
1) find the first survivor
2) 30second chase you down them
3) 1st hook, 3 gens pop and half the game is over
The only reason killers are winning is because survivors collapse on being altruistic. If you get 1 guy who ignores everything but gens the killer is fighting a losing battle.
Patently false. Absolutely untrue.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628266#Comment_3628266
then explain bloodlust mechanic in the game. This game has bloodlust 1, bloodlust 2 and bloodlust 3. each level of bloodlust supposedly increases likelihood for a survivor to get hit. The game is definitely designed around guaranteed hits for killers.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628469#Comment_3628469
every killer gets punished. the metric for how they get punished is chase time. The longer a chase is extended, the more likelihood there is for killer to lose in gen-time. even though trickster supposedly doesn't get punished for missing, if his chases are like 60 second long, that is still getting punished.
you can have nemesis who misses 1 whip and gets down in 30 seconds but nemesis who misses is still punished less then trickster because 30 second is lower chase time then trickster who had 60 second chase.
Bloodlust came about to help killers deal with infinities. BHVR said it was a temporary measure installed while they dealt with broken maps. But IIRC, when they tried to get rid of it (along with the last true infinite?) there was so much outcry they just left it and said they would continue to monitor it or something. I imagine with the new direction they’re taking with map design the bloodlust mechanic will eventually be removed.
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It’s tough to choose a favorite but I primarily main Yoichi for his lore and cosmetics.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628469#Comment_3628469
Fair point and a criteria I definitely agree with. Chase powers should be rewarding but also punishing. But you understand why I don't think that chase powers (or anti loop) are the real problem. It's more their design. Though there needs to be a balance between punishing and feeling terrible to play. Live Billy is a good example of the latter.
Trickster is a killer that even though he isn't the strongest makes you feel like you lose at every turn. He hits you again and again and again until you go down. That wouldn't change even if he needed to hit 15 knives to injure you. So that is definitely a design flaw that makes him unfun to play against by default. He would feel a lot better to play against, if his power didn't come down to "spam until you win".
I wonder what your concept of strong for a killer is. To use your example, Trickster is strong precisely because he (currently) has RNG-based counterplay—which is to say practically none at all.
An important distinction Choy made in that video is that anti-gameplay powers, not anti-loop abilities, are problematic. New Trickster is an example of a killer whose abilities disrupt gameplay in a profound way. Nurse is another.