Atrushan88
Atrushan88
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@FancyMrB said:
Making a game p2p wouldn't solve anything... just make people more unhappy overall. You would still have killers tunneling/camping/slugging... and you would be paying more money for it.
It's the weekends that ruin it. You know, when all the kids are out of school and have time to play video games? The game isn't even close to this bad on weekdays. I've lost 3 or 4 pips just today, only got safety pips on the others because they don't give me ANY breathing room. I'd get unhooked and they're immediately there. They chase me, I jump in a locker, they take the DS, chase me again, hook me, wait for me to get unhooked, and then chase me again immediately.
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@TheLegendDyl4n1 said:
i only voted this because i know chapters are what bring people to this game, so unless they only released like a survivor like Clementine from TWD, or some other standalone killer that has no survivor that could go with it, than take your time to release it and take like 2 chapters.
Let's be honest, chapters won't bring that many new players to the game who actually stay. There are far too many issues that run people away.
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@underlord99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/826133#Comment_826133
it didnt help them win? isnt the main objective of the survivors to escape?
Escaping with very few points because the killer completely destroyed your team isn't winning in my eyes. Also the game is balanced around 2 escape 2 die. If 2 died, and 2 got out with a key, then it's supposedly a "balanced" game. That means it didn't help the survivors win vs the killer. If 1 got out with a key, then the killer still won. Both items seem to be in favor of the killer winning the match or at the very least a "draw" with a few exceptions.
That's my problem with key complaints. The killer still wins in all but one scenario which is the rarest possible scenario(survivors did four gens, one person died), well, two if you count all gens being completed and everyone getting out via hatch, but they could have just opened the doors at that point so there was no need for the key in the first place.
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@underlord99 said:
I've been seeing a lot of post lately about nerfing keys. and everytime people start to argue in the comments about how keys are fine and moris are not and vise versa . we as a community need to acknowledge that both of these items severely cut the objective in half.( I'm sure someone is going to argue that a 4 man getting hatch means they did there job but usually its not all 4 that get it , it's more like 2 or 1 )(and ebony moris just require one hook). instead of arguing about what needs nerfed and what doesnt why don't we look at the situation from the other sides view ?
The problem with saying "sometimes it's just two or one who get out with a key" means that the killer still WON in that scenario. The key didn't help survivors win, it just helped one or two survivors get out. This is why I don't understand the hate on keys. I've had 3 people escape with a key before and it didn't bother me too much. It felt a little bad but on the other hand killers have moris which all but guarantee a 3k if you're good enough, and give you a big edge in a 4k, especially if you're weak enough to carry a mori, you're likely also weak enough to slug for the 4k.
People complain about keys SOOO much, but the chances of having 3 survivors escape is so rare. It doesn't happen near as much as a mori does. That said, I wouldn't mind keys getting some sort of nerf, but only if moris were nerfed as well to require a second hook. That way at least it'd be pretty much the same playing field as with keys. Either that, or moris get to stay as they are and keys need to be buffed to where the hatch spawns after 2 gens are completed to level the playing field.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825993#Comment_825993
We have 57 days, if you've done Tome l part 1 and just played normally than you're probably already at tier 30 or 27...
That's casually btw, if you play like every hour of everyday than you're probably at tier 40 by now. If we have 57 days with a fresh new player, and part 1 tome l took people like 3-4 days to finish... 1 week for casuals max... than it can theoretically be done on time for 60 tiers...
That's a ridiculous assumption. I've been playing quite a bit and I'm only at tier 21. There may have been 2 or 3 days I didn't play, but there's no way I'd get 6 levels from that. It takes 2 games to get 1, and one game can last between 15-20 minutes. The only way I see people being that high is if they maximize their results by playing literally only as little as they need to a game.
A casual player, I would also assume, would play 1 hour a day. Casual isn't super dedicated to one game, and 3 hours of game time is a lot.
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I have experienced some lag in lobbies. It only happened today afaik after playing a while though. PS4
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@SilentSpectre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825864#Comment_825864
Please re-read my posts before attempting to commentate on them. ?
I have re-read them. Again, if you have absolutely no point in saying what you have said, which already seems very anti-key, then why are you even replying to me? That's what I'm not getting. You're either replying to me to argue with me against saying that keys do not need to be nerfed, or you're just engaging in the conversation for absolutely no reason, which does not make sense.
Aside from that ONE thing where you said that keys skip generators and moris skip hooks(which is not true for the intended use of either, assuming moris are intended for 4ks and keys are intended for 4 escapes, which would be balanced), anyways. Both are pretty much saying "Hey, the killer is winning this round", except for a few outliers.
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@SilentSpectre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825836#Comment_825836
Reading comprehension is not a skill gifted to many, I can see that now. You're pulling arguments out of thin air. Never once did I defend moris, nor say that keys need to be nerfed. Please calm down. ?
If you're not defending moris or calling for key nerfs(which is what the OP is calling for, then what exactly is the point of anything you've said thus far? You're not just engaging in the conversation for nothing when replying to me directly.
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@SilentSpectre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825810#Comment_825810
Imagine if the killer could bring 4 moris or 8 addons. Their job is intrinsically much harder.
How would 4 keys be any different than 1? One is pretty much the same as 4. All 4 cannot get out unless they do all the generators. This logic is silly. If 3 other survivors had keys, that just means each individual survivor wanted a chance to get out through the hatch if they needed it. You're not likely to kick a hatch 2 times unless they're memeing. The outcome would be the same whether it was one key or four keys.
@SilentSpectre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825810#Comment_825810
I never said any of that. I said keys are the survivor (of which there are 4 instead of 1) equivalent of the mori.
No, you defended the use of a mori, but said that keys needed to be nerfed. That's calling for survivors' "counter" to be weaker while killers being allowed to still have easy games when using a mori. Again, BOTH keys and moris require the killer to be winning, outside of very few edge cases(Or rather, moris help the killer win, and keys are used when the killer IS winning and for the most part make it a "balanced" game of 2 kills 2 escapes).
If anything, if moris are not gonna be nerfed, keys need to be buffed. The hatch should spawn after 2 generators are completed regardless of the amount of survivors to equate to the use of a mori in a match.
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@SilentSpectre said:
If even one person dies before all the gens are done, the key is broken and allows 3 free escapes. If all the gens are done, may as well have not brought a key.
Except a Mori allows 3 free kills and one near guaranteed kill. A key for 3 to escape requires them to do 4 gens, one gen less than average. They still have spent a significant time in the game. The amount of times 3 people escape with a key is laughable. Most of the times when I see someone bring a key, only one or two get out, but almost every time I see a killer bring a mori, he's getting a 3-4k unless he's bad.
Your argument is that killers should have an easy game when they bring an offering while also being able to bring strong addons, whereas a survivor should have a difficult game when they bring an item that is far weaker to a Mori in comparison while also having a weaker offering option.
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@SilentSpectre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825737#Comment_825737
If 4 people escape, they can just use the doors.
That's my point. They did pretty much their ENTIRE objective to get a 4 escape. Killer has their objective almost halved because nearly every killer that brings a Mori is crab walking from point A to point B with their eyes set on that hook to get a 4k.
Both keys AND moris create the same conditions, the killer WINNING.
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@SilentSpectre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825706#Comment_825706
Keys skip gens, Moris skip hooks
Keys don't skip gens if 4 people escape. Moris skip hooks regardless.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825706#Comment_825706
Well, it's not easy of course... unless as I said you're a 4 SWF team. Solo survivors won't have any problem with this change but a 4 SWF team that knows who has a key will have a easier escape if the killer can't apply enough pressure because he's slower.
In what world is the killer slower? You realize survivor move speed is 100%. Every killer in the game(bar Nurse who technically still travels farther faster), is faster than 100%, most have a 15% speed advantage...so...uh? That said, what does any of this have to do with keys needing to be nerfed? I was basically saying I don't think keys need to be nerfed. I know some people want to go after everything under the sun to make sure one side has nothing left to win with, but come on, survivors are still grieving the death of med kits as a whole.
The "counter"(lol at counter when both allow the killer to get the same or more kills than is balance standards) to a Mori is a key, but moris significantly reduce the work a killer needs to kill everyone. A key on the other hand does not significantly reduce the amount of work survivors have to do to escape, but instead makes it easier for survivors to escape using the key the more the killer is winning. In most cases with a key, a killer will kill 2 survivors. That's a supposedly balanced game. In most cases with a Mori, a killer will kill at least 3 survivors AND they can still bring strong addons because it's an OFFERING. That is unbalanced and yet we have people complaining that keys need to be nerfed instead.
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I think that keys already require you to do most of your objective and that while a killer can get a 4k with a mori which is an OFFERING, a survivor can't get a 4 escape easily with a key.
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I think there should be an "other" category. I think survivors should gain a 25% stackable bonus to all bloodpoint gains up to a maximum of 100% for completing a generator or fully healing an ally. If you want to go the BP route anyways. WGLF is useless, might as well put a useful condition on a perk that's already hard to play with.
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You don't have to not stalk though. Most GhostFaces I would expect to go between doing both depending on the situation, rather than not using the stalk at all.
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@TragicSolitude said:
NOED counters Adrenaline, which is an end-game instaheal.
And I rarely saw instaheals used against one-hit-down killers, because then the rescuer would get downed. Instead, I saw them used against weak M1 killers who just had all the time they spent in a chase negated, losing all the pressure they might've put on the survivors to slow the game down.
Except they put it on a purple item that has next to no spawn rate in bloodwebs while syringes are now what might as well be a green item and are red.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Probably because that'd mean redesigning the customisation page
Other point might be because there are some abilities that simply arent tools but only floaty special effects, or nothing all.
- The Shape, GF, Legion, Spirit have no replaceable special effects, not even from their own pov.
- Plague needs to stay color coded to identify her current state, cant give her rainbow puke.
- Doctor's electricity might be replaceable
- Nurse only has those particles in her left hand and the white movement blur of her blinks.
- Hag... Got her triangle on the floor. Much visible , such wow. Demogog's portals seem similiar, but lose their flair if replaced.
- Clowns shouldnt want to see their bottles that often (only can see them clearly when reloading, which sucks)
- Wraith, Trapper, Billy, Pig, Bubba, are the only killers who could have " cool" replacement tools that arent just glowing special effects like doc or nurse.
Do you know how bad this makes me want Rainbow puke for Plague? I didn't even think of this until you mentioned it. I mean...they probably could have made her corrupt purge the same black, but the normal puke rainbow colored. There's also a huge tell on her weapon, it glows red when she has corrupt purge. As for Clown, they could always make the smoke from the bottles different colors. Hag could have her body double replaced by something else. It's pretty obvious when she teleports anyways so it's not like it has to be her model.
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@Volfawott said:
I would agree but there are survivors out there who take the opportunity to be as toxic as possible if they happened to make it out.
Which baffles me to no end considering I could go out of my way to not tunnel not camp or do anything that's cheap and I will still getting bm'ed.
But lo and behold if I so much want to try to least secure one kill in endgame I'm a trash killer who makes the game unfun for everybody.
Granted I will still always run by the logic that it's no one's job or obligation to make the game fun for you. Whether that means it's not the survivors job to make the killer have fun or the killer to make the survivors have fun the point still stands.
That opinion is fine, but when it comes to camping a hooked survivor you are basically holding the game hostage for that one person. One could argue "It's two minutes, big deal" but in reality it's 2 minutes, plus the time it takes to get into another lobby with someone else who will possibly do the same thing. When it happens enough, you get kinda tired of it and then you get ready to make the game unfun as possible for the other guy.
While BMing at the exit gates against someone who played fair is possible, I feel like this only happens with newbie survivors. Survivors who are not new only do this against killers who play with bad sportsmanship, in my experiences. But while I agree that it's not nice to BM at the exit gates, it's a lot easier to handle as killer than it is to be put on a hook and be unable to do anything for the entirety of the match, only to most likely depip as well as get hardly any bloodpoints, making that game not only unfun, but also worthless. A killer doesn't face this, they get bloodpoints in almost every game, and can get as much as 64000 BP in one match. As a survivor averaging 20k is already pretty rough, and you have to also deal with BM.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/825035#Comment_825035
welp, kinda weird you only got the notification now, but thats how it is...
however, speaking from a technical standpoint does render hookcamping and genrushing the exact same: only focussing on the objective and ingoring the other aspects of the game.
the big difference being, that gens are not actually players, they are just assets of the maps. a survivor only focussing on gens will not piss the gens off. they dont care if someone sits on them for 80 seconds straight, for 40 seconds or just no one at all. however, the killers objective are the survivors. these are players and they do not appreciate it if a killer secures their progress towards their objective, as that objective includes them not being able to play anymore.
if campers / genrushers are a common sight on PS4 is something i cant comment on tbh. since i am playingg the PC version, i can only tell you that genrushers are a very common sight here.
Reading back you said neither were common, but yeah, this thread was pretty much over, I just wanted to make sure I replied since I didn't get the notification and was just checking through my posts and saw "new" on a few. But yeah it's pretty common. I've even seen a guy claim he got to rank 1 by camping only, which is worrying imo.
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Low rank killers don't face camp because gens get done too fast. They face camp because they're NEW and want to make sure they kill someone before going to the next one, they don't realize they're on a time crunch and low rank survivors will always try to save the one on the hook regardless. This wins them the game, and it's why they do it.
Low rank killers run NOED for the same reason. If the gates are powered it's there "nyeh heh heh" moment where they still get kills.
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They'll probably be deleted. It's my first one too but I think they'll probably be deleted.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/687392#Comment_687392
please read my comment again, i fear you didnt quite understand my argument.
i was talking about a killer securing the progress towards his objective and not about a killer playing optimally.
everyone knows that hard camping is very far from optimal gameplay.
genrushing survivors only focus on their objective and therefore make the game unfun for the killer.
hookcamping killers only focus on their objective and therefore make the game unfun for the survivors.
both are extremes that are rather uncommon, yet both exist - and are both to be placed on the same level, since both are basically doing the exact same with the same impact on the other side.
also, optimal gameplay persists of more than just pushing the objective.
optimal survivor gameplay includes being good at chases, being altruistic, being stealthy, pushing the objective and in the end escaping.
just focussing on the gen part is not optimal gameplay, its just broken game mechanics.
I just saw this for some reason, but I don't 100% remember the argument. Read back and anyways, survivors gen rushing is not the same as a camping killer. A camping killer is preventing a person from playing the game at all. Survivors focusing on gens will still get a killer a chase, the killer can still move, he isn't locked into a corner and still has control of his actions. This is the big difference.
As for optimal gameplay for survivors, I was talking about them being spread out and each on a gen and pushing while a killer is camping instead of saving them. Then again honestly there's not enough time to do even that imo without him getting someone else.
They're also very common on PS4, at least the camping part is. Gen rushing is much more rare, but camping is definitely a common experience to see.
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@MrPenguin said:
No I didn't see or hear when the devs said this so thank you for the info. I guess that's better than nothing, but they really should just unlock it for everyone for the rift. Now if its a perk I really don't want, you want me to spend my slowly grinded out shards on them. On top of that I have to wait for it to appear whenever it decides (right now its just brutal strength in the shrine fyi) and this still doesn't fix the bloodweb rng. Then lets say if I miss one of the perks for one reason or another, there's no guarantee it'll show back up as far as I know. Cool I got it in the shrine. Great, the perk didn't appear in over 70 bloodwebs because I'm unlucky.
I just wanna do my challenges please. Some players (including myself) do have a problem with this implementation. I don't see how removing the perk requirement would change the challenge or making the perk just globally available is really ruining anything. This is only punishing newer, more casual, players who like only a few characters,or prestiging players who may not have someone with these perks yet. So on top of the money they dropped (or may plan to drop), they now have to burn either levels of BP until they get the perk, or 2000 shards that they may be saving for something else (and then BP waiting for it to show up), just to get through the rift reasonably (especially if they have a life outside the game). The current implementation is ruining it for people.
Breaking 8 pallets is breaking 8 pallets, with or without brutal. If anything brutal makes it easier, not more challenging. If you want a challenge it should say, for example, open 3 chest in one game without plunderer's.
No ones asking them to remove the challenges completely, but if the perk stipulation is unneeded (brutal, empathy, plunderer's) then why is it even there? Just let me break the pallets, just let me search the boxes, just let me heal the people. It already has to be in one game, but also behind rng upon rng upon rng? It's too much for some players. The only type of challenge I see that would need a perk is something like "mori 4 survivors with devour hope in one game" because you need devour hope to mori the survivor without an offering and devour is the harder of the two.
Again if these were just challenges then cool whatever. The fact that they are tied to a time limited system that people may have paid for is the issue. We shouldn't have to grind, for a chance to grind, for another chance to grind, on a time limited, paid system.
tl;dr Thank you for the info but that's not solving the core issues.
If you read all that, thank you for your time.
Exactly, Empathy makes it EASIER to heal people, because you can find who's injured easier. Brutal Strength makes it easier to break pallets and still end chases quicker, and Plunderer's helps you find chests before anyone else. They don't make it more challenging. Even the "This is Happening" challenge doesn't require you to be injured when you get a great skillcheck. You just need the perk equipped. Sadly I ran No Mither and a toolbox with sabotage skillcheck increases to ensure I got it thinking I did have to actually use the perk, but I didn't.
Needing the perks to do the challenge is just artificial difficulty(if you don't know what that is, it's fake difficulty, not ACTUAL difficulty).
If they want to tie something to perks, they need the perk to be unlocked temporarily when you have that challenge equipped, and have you actually need to USE THAT PERK to do it. For example, killing people with Devour Hope, getting great skillchecks while injured with This is Not Happening, heal 1 full health state in the end game with No One Left Behind. Things that actually are difficult.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823972#Comment_823972
If you're trapped in the say... isolation room in Hawkins with another Survivor... and your only option is to DC, sit there for hours, or do the generator and die? What would you do?
It doesn't matter if the room was a 2x2 closet or made up of 4 rooms with one exit... he still blocked the exit and refused to move to trap them both in one spot...
If they didn't do the generators in say... the Hawkins room... than they'd still be trapped there... If they did... than the Killer probably has NOED and would down them both like with the upstairs Thompson House incident here... REGARDLESS!!! He still didn't move from the spot and trapped them both in that room so he could guarantee a down.
Basically, here's how this goes down so everything is cleared up. If they did the generator and activated his NOED (He might not even had NOED) than he's still blocking the exit and literally holding the game hostage to down them both...
I said "If he moved it wouldn't be doing it anymore..." should've been more specific... If he moved from that spot and chased one person regularly while moving from the exit for one to escape than technically... TECHNICALLY... he let them do one generator and boned himself...
That's kind of the only scenario that it would exhume the behavior... but I might be 100% wrong with that statement and he could still be reportable for not moving from the spot in-general... for that period of time...
He still technically trapped them in the upstairs regardless if they did the generator or not... so he's still holding the game hostage by doing so.
K, it was mainly you saying that "If he moved after the gen was powered then it wasn't" that confused me in this case.
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@ABannedCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/818887#Comment_818887
Those are fan sent clips. He has a Discord, and accepts clips via his email.
I've actually seen him make videos of him PLAYING DBD recently.
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@FireHazard said:
What're you even talking about...
How would the Survivors hold the game hostage if they can't escape from the upstairs of the Thompson house in-general?
It doesn't matter if they did the generator or not... it was LF... he can down both of them if they're close enough...
The reason I said the game is "progressing" is because they're doing a generator which is their main objective... in a sense, they're progressing the match by completing it and power the exit gates... regardless... they still CAN'T escape the house because the Killer is blocking the only exit... So it's still holding the game hostage since LF is refusing to move from the exit until he downs them both...
It's unknown if he even had NOED, it doesn't even matter if he did or not... if he chainsaws one of them at the exit than the other one is as good as dead... There is no loops up there, and the only window leads to a dead end...
In a sense, he trapped them both in an unwinnable situation and by doing so he's holding the game hostage to get what he wants... Regardless if he wanted to kill them both or not, he still blocked their own exit of escape or moving from that spot... the same goes for if you block someone in a corner as the Killer and went to go order some take out... You're still trapping them in a spot that they can't move from UNLESS they DC or the Killer downs them somehow...
Regardless if you're taking 10 minutes or 5 hours to down someone... you're still trapping BOTH or the last Survivor in a room they can't escape from... regardless if they did the generator or not they couldn't escape.
It was mainly from the phrase "As long as the game can progress". If the survivors don't do the generator the game can still progress technically, keeping the Leatherface from being reportable. Since you said "If he moved after the last gen was completed he would not be holding the game hostage".
That said, if the survivors didn't do the gen and didn't leave that room(they couldn't), they could technically be counted as doing the same thing some survivors do to troll killers in games, like hiding all game without doing gens.
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I usually just keep the exact distance I need from gen to gen to hear if it's been worked on at all. You can be pretty far away and hear nearby gens, so you can speed up your gen patrol by doing this. That said I'm not a top tier killer(though I have been getting a lot of stomps on my Myers games recently).
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823933#Comment_823933
I think you're missing the point, if he didn't move regardless than he's holding the game hostage by refusing to move so he can down them both...
If you keep someone in a small room... or in this case... a room with one exit that you're blocking with your body, THAN it's holding the game hostage. If he were to move from that spot and not resume blocking it after you gets got the generator done... than that's HIS loss and nobody elses...
From what i'm understanding here... he didn't move from that spot so he could get both him and his friend downed... so yes, he was holding the game hostage since he refused to move from that spot until he downed them both... Which... that could've taken hours if they both didn't get close enough...
It's one thing to block the stairway to get someone downed... it's another to keep multiple people upstairs and refusing to move until he downed both of them...
note
This is all speculation and opinions, we judge what he did with our own opinions, but the rules could say otherwise... or the specifications of how to break that rule wasn't met here...
I'm giving my honest 100% opinion on the issue through facts and common sense... for all we know, he could be fine to do that... but if you look at it from another way... that clearly isn't the case.
I was mainly asking about what would happen if the survivors didn't do the generator. According to your description, it'd sound like the survivors were holding the game hostage even if they were just trying to stay alive without giving him the ability to kill them both(let's be honest any killer could kill both with NOED in that situation, not just Leatherface even if they did move after the generator was powered). Also, what if that wasn't the last generator? Would it count because technically the game could still "progress" even if it couldn't end?
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@FireHazard said:
Now, here's where the rule gets tricky.
Holding the game hostage refers to a Killer or sometimes a Survivor... keeping you or another player in a specific small room or corner in which they can't escape from...
The Survivor doesn't move at all, and the Killer doesn't hit you with his weapon. It's less likely for a Survivor to pull this off since the Killer will just hit you both when he sees the crows and notifications... but if the Killer is on board with this for some reason and doesn't hit the Survivor off you... than it can technically be considered "Holding the Game Hostage"
Now, here's where the main part of the rule comes in. For the most part, this rule applies to Killers except for the rare circumstance above... which is highly unlikely to ever happen in-game.
Anyways, for a Killer to trap a Survivor in a corner or a small room and not moving until the Survivor is forced to DC... than that's holding the game hostage... If the Killer doesn't move from that spot for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, or even 30 minutes... than that's holding the game hostage... regardless if the Survivor DCs or not.
Now, in your case, the Killer didn't move from the staircase what-so-ever... and in that time you had an option to activate the last generator and power the exit gates. If the Killer proceeded to move after that generator was activated, than that's not holding the game hostage... It's just bad sportsmanship which you can still report them for.
If he still didn't move for say... 5... 10... 15 minutes... but than downed you all and killed you... than that's holding the game hostage.
The reason the 1st part where he moves after the generator isn't holding the game hostage... is because he allowed you to do the generator and didn't stop it... that's his loss... than he moved because of NOED or his chainsaw for a free down or whatever... By doing so, he's only going to get one down most likely, and if he downs both of you than that's unlucky...
It's not holding the game hostage since he moved and the generator was done... which progressed the match... in any case, he was going to down one of you anyways upstairs... so by moving after the generator was done... basically fed you points and possible an escape.
I suppose you could report him for trolling or bad sportsmanship... but if he moved after the generator was done... than that's not holding the game hostage since he progress the match by downing one of you...
If he didn't and stood there for a decent length of time, than it IS taking the game hostage since he's wasting time for everyone... and not letting the game progress.
In this case it was a Leatherface though. There's no way he could NOT get both survivors if he didn't move. Also in this case, if the survivors didn't do the generator what would have happened? Would THEY have been reportable for "holding the game hostage" when actually the Leatherface was?
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I have a better idea that I don't see being easily abuseable. If you're unhooked, the area around that hook prevents you from taking damage for 30 seconds. If you leave that area, you are immediately able to take damage again. Only you are immune to damage in that area though. So if you were unhooked and the killer is camping you can wait out the timer. If the killer decides to wait that's an extra 30 seconds before he can hook you again. If you have Sprint Burst you can get a head start also. Survivors can't just heal you in front of the killer though because they're NOT immune to damage. There's nothing that punishes the killer really, nothing that makes survivors OP, it's just a mechanic that saves you from the stress of being camped or unhooked right in front of the killer.
Btw to anyone suggesting anything for promoting safe unhooks, just no. Safe unhooks are so easy to get. You can be unhooked with BT and it counts as a safe unhook despite the killer still chasing you. You can be unhooked and chased by the killer, then downed within a very short time frame and be counted as a safe unhook. Safe unhooks are not really safe unhooks.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823682#Comment_823682
Thana does add 12 seconds IF all four are injured at once, dying light requires the killer to hook people, those are both rewarding the killer for doing something. If you’re all injured at once, why? That’s the point of the build is to punish people who choose gen rush for adrenaline over regular healing.
I never said Thanataphobia on it's own was overpowered. I just said imagine if someone had all of those things adding up to 40 seconds on one single generator. It would mean you'd be sitting there humping a generator forever, only for them to take off another 30+ seconds with Pop when they hooked someone. In fact, my only thing was that I said none of the perks only added 5 seconds, and that Thanataphobia added like 12 seconds, for comparison. It was you who used the measly "5 seconds" to a chase comment about other perks that were not related in the slightest to what I said.
I said imagine if you had to wait even 15 seconds standing still in the hooking animation, how boring, unfun, and pointless it would feel to even hook survivors. With a build focused on gen slowing, on a killer who has addons for gen slowing, it makes everything feel pointless. The game isn't really moving anywhere. You're not making any progress. 15 extra seconds alone is a crazy amount, but imagine if that was 40+.
I see this as a problem more with the fact that there are SO MANY game slowing perks that are constantly being added, rather than Freddy. The devs didn't realize that people would run way more than one, and they caused this snowball effect where when they're all used together the game basically never moves for survivors.
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While I think giving statistics more often and with more detail would be nice, it would also be used to weaponize stats into nerfing something that may not need nerfs. Stats alone don't always mean that specific thing needs a nerf. If for example everyone who brought a mori got a 4k, that would obviously be a needed nerf. But if for example, every survivor who brought a key and completed all generators got a 4 escape, it wouldn't need nerfing because they literally did all of the generators. The only thing they would not have done was opened the doors, in which case if they did also open the doors, that would mean the key did nothing for them.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823643#Comment_823643
Uhm survivors DO have addons that make it take longer for you to hook them. At a basic level Balanced, sprint burst, lithe all give you enough distance on a killer to add at least 5 seconds to a chase, more if it lets you get to another pallet.
I said hook, as in the charge bar while hooking them that goes up in a second. Imagine if survivors had an addon that made standing there and hooking someone you were carrying take even 15 seconds.
That's basically Swing Chains/Jump Rope + Red Paint Brush + Ruin + Dying Light + Pop, except even longer while on a gen, sitting still, doing nothing. Btw none of these things only give 5 extra seconds afaik. Thanataphobia I believe gives like 12 extra seconds with everyone injured.
The things you're complaining about in your post have nothing to do with what I'm saying. If you're in a chase, you're actively doing something. If you're sitting on a generator for another 40+ seconds, you're literally stuck sitting still.
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@Lost_in_the_Fog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/817411#Comment_817411
I'm with you! The dream world mechanic is one of the most unique things in this game. There is no reason people can't deal with an occasional slowed down match.
Slowed down is one thing, but Dying Light + Ruin + Pop is already slowing the game down to a crawl on most normal killers. Add Red Paint Brush and Swing Chains and you're never gonna get a gen done. You have to sit there forever. Imagine if you took 80 seconds to hook someone, and then survivors had addons that could make that time longer. I'm not saying DCing against it is right, but it's certainly a little more than a minor annoyance to see a Freddy with those 3 perks. The problem isn't Freddy imo, it's more than some killers want the gens to go so slowly that no one ever gets out, so BHVR comes up with more and more perks specifically to do that, not thinking about how strong they are paired together, while ALSO having a killer that naturally slows the game down with two addons that make it so that the only time you can realistically prevent that slowdown for even a little while is to be hooked(seriously, try walking to a clock every time you fall asleep. You'd never get the gens done).
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@Rydog said:
I'm currently at Rift tier 23, with all level 1 Tome challenges done. My advice for the ones OP is still working on:
Plunder King: Bring some purple coins. I did this on my first try that way.
This Is Happening: Not too tough, if you can hit great skill checks. I brought No Mither to keep myself injured from the beginning, but I'm not even sure if being injured during the checks is a requirement.
Empathic: Pairing Empathy with We'll Make It gives you a really strong shot at this one.
Another suggestion to This is Happening, bring a toolbox with skillcheck increase chances on sabotage. Sabotage some hooks and you should have it pretty quickly, as a killer will not be looking for hook sabotagers. For Empathic bringing Botany Knowledge also helps.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823549#Comment_823549
It’s not about whether it’s OP or not, which is subjective. It’s a strategy chosen to be used because it’s perceived advantages to the player (otherwise why would someone run those builds). Those perceived advantages HAVE to come with disadvantages as well.
It doesn’t matter whether playing survivor or killer, every build intended to give particular advantages will always come with risks and downsides, as it should because that’s fair.
Those disadvantages become FAR MORE SEVERE against someone with Spine Chill to the point where they will almost never catch that survivor. Earlier you said "no killer should have a strategy that cannot be countered in any way whatsoever". Spine Chill not working against Mirror Myers is nothing like that, and I would say that Spine Chill working against Mirror Myers is FAR MORE like that to survivors. It's FAR too much of an advantage to someone who already has so much working against him that he needs a map offering to succeed in most cases. People don't run Mirror Myers because it's strong, they run it because it's fun.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823480#Comment_823480
Mirror Myers: too bad. No killer should have a strategy that cannot be countered in anyway what so ever. It’s a total coin flip.
And as for your other point, that’s just killer mains nit picking.
Mirror Myers can be countered though...Just get in a place where you can see him coming from either side. He only has a higher chance to win on Lery's, it's not really OP. Lower lunge and technically the slowest move speed in the game(aside from Nurse but she doesn't walk/float much anyways) are a really big hindrance to him alone, let alone with Spine Chill, which completely removes his ability to play the game with those addons, due to being unable to increase his speed, or lunge range. Mirror Myers' only saving grace is his ability to surprise survivors. If they know he's coming he will have no way to catch up to them and if they get to a loop he's pretty much going to have all gens pop before he catches the first survivor he finds with Spine Chill.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823480#Comment_823480
Mirror Myers: too bad. No killer should have a strategy that cannot be countered in anyway what so ever. It’s a total coin flip.
And as for your other point, that’s just killer mains nit picking.
Yeah but that's why Alert is so unreliable now. That's all it really takes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
well it does not trigger me but...I do find myself face camping david/jake/steve players a lot like they are SO HOT I JUST DO NOT WANT TO LET THEM GO!!!!!
Wait...maybe this is why I get campers and tunnelers in a lot of my games...
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823416#Comment_823416
The T1 Myers thing is being completely blown out of proportion, as so few Myers will remain in T1, so therefore would still be regularly subjected to the effects of Spine Chill well WELL before this minor change.
Except you forgot about Mirror Myers.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823417#Comment_823417
I was a bit vague and flippant. I mean we never saw such large amounts of complaining online almost equating to a boycott like this prior to the change, which for all intents and purposes is still working exactly the same except for ONE killer, during a part of their power that doesn’t last very long anyway.
I stand by my original sentiment.
Complaining about Spine Chill now is silly. No killer can 100% claim that they never went against survivors running Spine Chill before this update, and even fewer could attribute a match loss to Spine Chill without sounding like a total idiot.
Yeah, but it's the only thing people can think of to nerf survivors left that I can imagine, aside from keys. Everything else has been nerfed so there are very few things left to complain about. I'm gonna be honest, I think Spine Chill is probably too good. I've hidden so well from killers by knowing they're coming. That said, all other ways to detect a killer coming are so BAD now that I feel it needs it's place at this level of power. I don't feel like tier 1 Myers should be hit with Spine Chill though, especially Mirror Myers. He's already only 105% move speed, AND has a decreased lunge in tier 1. He's going to need some form of help in tier 1 if Spine Chill is going to work on him.
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The only killer I'd probably wanna P3 is Myers. His bloody mask is the only one I find worth it honestly. Then again I haven't seen Legion's P3. Just looked at them, they don't look too different and there's no Susie or Joe one, which is disappointing. The masks are more bloody obviously but I prefer the normal one I think.
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@tiamod said:
I mean, I do think it’s a bit much, but at the same time, maybe it’s their way of getting people to go out of their way to get new perks?
Besides, all perks show up in the Shrine of Secrets eventually.
Try getting Plunderer's after Prestiging characters when you have enough teachables. It's supposed to be a common perk, but after you get so many perks it becomes the rarest thing you'll ever find. I can never find it until I almost have no perks left after Prestiging. So yeah, it's a bit silly. The "challenge" itself is ridiculous enough. Opening EVERY chest in the trial(unless people bring coins). None of these so called "challenges" are real challenges. They're artificial difficulty based on luck. Do you want me to go running at the killer the moment someone opens a single chest, have him hook me, and then suicide on first hook? That's basically what this game is turning into with these so called "challenges".
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823390#Comment_823390
That’s ridiculous though. Spine Chill has been around for yonks. Killers coming across it before hand haven’t ever complained about it before, so why now?
Spine Chill gives survivors a small head start, IF they can tell which direction the killer is coming from. That’s it.
It didn't always trump Myers though, and better reasoning is, aura reading for survivors has now become less reliable. People don't like to take perks that are unreliable, because it's always better to take something that will benefit you always. So now people use less aura reading perks, and instead take Spine Chill, something that is better than aura reading. It's always going to be reliable, especially now that it works on Myers. Killers are going to be upset because they got a bunch of perks nerfed, but now people are using the better perk because the other perks that weren't as good got nerfed, and Spine Chill was already a strong perk. I've already seen some people saying that Spine Chill was too strong in certain posts talking about the perk(usually about how it doesn't work on Tier 1 Myers anymore, but they were talking about overall, not just against tier 1 Myers).
This is basically going to be the exact same thing as the other things people have gotten nerfed over the years that created different metas, like the no healing meta. Something gets nerfed, people adapt to a stronger way of playing, and now people will complain about the new meta they just created with their calls for nerfs to the less powerful thing.
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/823390#Comment_823390
people will complain about any perk hell I bet people complain about plunderers
They do actually. Remember the whole "Plunderer's gives people too many keys!!!" arguments. Funnily enough, I just made a complaint about it, but not really about that perk itself, but more about my lack of having it on many characters due to prestiging, plus needing it for a certain mission that I've done before without the perk.
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Yeah. Alert became even more unreliable while Spine Chill, an already good perk became a lot more useful. Now that more people will be running Spine Chill, just wait until the wave of complaints come for it.
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They should not even be called insta heals anymore. We need to change the nickname to "normal heal without pressing the buttons and being locked in place" and "side graded MoM".
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@twistedmonkey said:
You never punish a player for using a strat in the game. It has always been part of DBD and its encouraged in certain situations.
You reward them more for not doing the act by making not camping worthwhile. This is what they have started to do. Unfortunately if someone just wants you dead then no reward will ever stop them doing it. It's just how it is.
If someone camps always remember survivors have the upper hand. Do the gens and get out instantly. Don't worry about points or emblems just show them its a non viable strat.
I had one guy tell me he camped to rank 1. Sounds viable enough to me. Honestly I always personally would love to see a temporary invincibility shroud around the hook once unhooked for the one who was unhooked(basically hits do the same as if you were on the hook, no damage). Maybe a 30 second one, so that if the killer is in the vicinity they can stay there and waste his time. If he really wants to camp he has to wait there 30 seconds to do so, giving players more time to do gens, as well as giving people options to work against the camp. And since it's 30 seconds just being in a bubble it doesn't necessarily prevent the scenario that you just hooked someone at the exit gates.
People say 80 seconds per gen but you have to account for ruin and thanataphobia, dying light, etc. A person has 120 seconds on the hook, with 80 seconds per gen people can only do 3 gens before that person dies. You also have to account for going to the hook to find out if the killer is camping, whether teammates try to save, etc. Sure some gens might be about halfway done, but overall you're not gonna finish 5 gens before the killer finds another victim. This leads to a 2 escape 2 die scenario which is what they aim for in balance, and this is in the best possible scenario I can think of, outside of someone managing to get a hook save on a camping killer without going down themselves, and no NOED, which a camper's likely to have, and if you have all solos you're not likely to have done all totems.
People claim camping is a strategy, but I bet all those people never played old PVP games where you spawned in the same place constantly, and people could just stand at your spawn shooting you over and over where you couldn't do anything. That's the exact same situation as camping pretty much, and every PVP game since that started happening made fixes to where that wasn't possible. BHVR just wants to keep camping as a thing for unknown reasons. The only thing it promotes is toxicity.
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@THEghostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/808787#Comment_808787
You mean, vanity mirror? I wasn't referring to that add-on at all. V. Mirror sucks lol
No I meant Dead Rabbit, that's the one that increases lunge of Tier 1 right? If you stay in tier 1 then you're 105% move speed.
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@THEghostface said:
This anti-heal build, which Tru3 is spreading about, is getting out of hand and is a poor impression for any new Ghost Face players. Sure, the build is handy for a versatile stealth killer like him, but thinking that his stalk mechanic is useless is laughable. You may as well play as dead rabbit Myers if you're using this build. As Ghost Face, marking survivors at the right given opportunity, applies more pressure than going about loudly with nurses calling and sloppy butcher, really boring gameplay that plenty of killers use, but Ghost Face is an exception because he can have no terror radius. Stalking can lead to map pressure if you use it correctly, unlike Tru3, who proceeds to call it bad while displaying poor usage of the ability, hence the build he calls "optimal". From what I've seen from Ghost Face mains, no one really tries when they stalk survivors, and that's pretty disappointing (PS4). Ghost Face carries the potential to add pressure by gaining fast downs and hooks, but the ever growing conditioning of playing a simple m1 killer with no terror radius instead brings people away from that potential. Play how you want, but I really don't want to see players using this great killer as if he's another killer, and not his own.
You realize Dead Rabbit Myers is slower than GhostFace, and much easier to see in the open. You see Myers once, you get in an area where you can see him coming and he's useless. GhostFace can sneak up on you even in a chase if the walls are high enough. He's also more difficult to see. Stalking survivors is fine and dandy, but I've always found his shroud to be his greatest asset.
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@burntFuse said:
How about giving killers offerings to require 1 or 2 extra generators for the match?
Why would they do that? Killers already have 3 extra offerings. Two of which are very powerful.
On the topic, I think it'd be too powerful, but at the same time, moris exist and those break the game more than 2 extra pallets would.