Artemisha
Artemisha
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@humanbeing1704 said:
So the system has it where mindlessly doing gens is the most skilled thing according to ranking lol
They don´t even try to hide it anymore...... be a pro!! click m1!!
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@Sumnox said:
In today's live stream
So it has been revealed the one key feature to a high MMR : Survive.
You can unhook 59 survivors, loop for 7 minutes, repair 28 generators. That doesn't matter. Get tunnelled and you're a rank 20 according to MMR.
Be in a locker all match and get hatch : Be part of the top MMR elite!
Hide and blend all game, let everyone die, don't risk anything, loot, bring plunderer's bring keys. Be the elite of Dead by Daylight.
It that is true, what a dissapointment. Although I didn´t expect much on them btw.
This game design is so toxic. So if I wanna raise my MMR i have to sacrifice all my teammates.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2548397#Comment_2548397
Not at all. I played both roles competitively/in tournaments for almost two years. The killer might *try* to secure struggle and go for a tunnel, but survivors play around it in a few ways.
It's not as easy as simply sitting on the hook if the survivors are any good and have some game sense. They either force a 1 for 1 trade with BT while you lose 3 gens in the process or they'll immediately save with 2 survivors. And if you try to tunnel, they block for the player.
Solo players are perfectly capable of doing these things, but they often don't know how. Players wait way too long to save and get grabbed in the process. They save without BT. They immerse near hook, don't save, and also get found and downed (which is particularly egregious). And oftentimes, even when they successfully make the save, they don't block for the player on death hook.
Players need to be better.
i also have seen tournaments. When camp tunnel is allowed, what killers do is hook a guy if possible near some gens, and proxy camp. They can patrol a smal area just throwing out people from nearby gens to activate ruin. But they are always aware of the guy on hook.
This strat is the way to go on tournaments. And many times that first hooked guy die tunneled (even if he is great looper), and most of those games are won by killers. So if a competitive team can barely handle with proxycamp tunnel, imagine on Solo Q....
It´s not the player who has to play better. It´s the game design which has to reward people for high skilled actions in game (not for rush a gen or camptunnel a guy)
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't see a problem with either one. Gens usually go fast because the killer isn't downing survivors, and camping/tunneling succeeds when a survivor is weak in chase and teammates aren't prepared for a camp or don't counter it correctly. There's an answer for everything.
I don't mind being camped/tunneled at all. It will cost the killer every gen if I'm playing well and my teammates are actually doing gens.
Only answer to camp tunnel is gen rush. Only counterplay to gen rush is camp tunnel.
It doesn´t care much if u are great looper. U can appreciate that on tournaments. Specially with killers with strong 1vs1. They take down one good survivor and tunnel him out of the game ASAP.
And BTW, sitting on a gen and hold m1 is not fun at all, but is the most rewarded and low skilled action in game. Has it sense? Not at all.
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This game encourages toxicity and bad manners on it´s own design.
Bully one guy not allowing him to play is the best strat in game as killer and the way to go (camp tunnel).
This game don´t encourage good manners or any type of kindness. As surv, u are more rewarded being selfish than helping your teammates indeed.
So it´s what it is. When u want your community play in a certain way, u reward them for it. But we have no in game reward for having interaction between players, neither for distribute the hook. Besides that this game doesn´t reward people for their high skill on high difficulty actions like looping. On the contrary, killers feel forced to not loop on strong areas or with strong survs.
Game is toxic on it´s own design, what provokes more toxic players and community.
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It´s being deferential and good manners. It´s not like if whe was chasing me and got me in a corner and i raised the wthite flag in my convenience. I was literally chasing her from behind.
If she just didn´t want to meme, 1 hit, 2 hits or even 2 hits and a trap would be an acceptable advantage. What that player did is totally unsportmanship, cheap and toxicity when someone is trying to be nice to him. As important is the victory as the way you get it. I can pass an exam just copying, but in my own I will know I didn´t.
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@R2k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2546978#Comment_2546978
U live in a dream world with pinky ponies and unicorns right?
Apparently
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2547036#Comment_2547036
I would still face camp in this mode even if it made me lose, yes. Not for one million dollars, but just to prove the doubters wrong.
Players like u is precisely what we want to ride out in the new mode.
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Current problem is that game design encourages people to play the most unfun, toxic and boring way to play. Because these 2 strats are the stronger strats and only possible counterplay are themselves.
So people play like if they were in a tournament (camptunnel vs gen rush all the games).
A new game mode with new rules could create a metagame based on chases. They should even eliminate gens from the mode (hold a button can't be the most rewarded action as a player because it doesn't require skill; neither camp tunnel).
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@Mistakesweremade said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2546906#Comment_2546906
lmao you are getting mad because people are not playing how you want them to play. Why was that pig supposed to play along your boop the snoot game? I am sorry to tell you this, but this game is not "befriend the killer simulator", you were really pety for just killing yourself on hook because things did not go your way.
This is like touching gloves on boxing. Usually people touch gloves when the fight or round starts in a signal of respect and sportmanship. There are fighters that don't have any ethic or moral code and will try the knockout as the bell sound, knowing that their rival is not going to attack or defense.
I would be ashamed of "winning" like that. Just cheap dirty people see the glory on those "victories".
The point is, what type of competitor u wanna be? I could have a higher MMR if I played selfish on solo Q and my scape rate would be higger if all I'do was gen rush.
But I'm not going to gen rush a killer that is playing fair, neither leave a teammate die on hook. I like to play nice to people in my game (allies and rivals, everybody deserves respect).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2546906#Comment_2546906
Problem is when killers do stuff like that with a survivor, the other three survivors use that time to work on a generator. Before you know it all of the survivors are tea bagging you at the exit gates.
Even if she hitted me twice and put a bear trap, I could even accept. What she did was just too much taking advantage of someone trying be nice.
I stayed to see the end. She had 0 mercy on the rest of survs. Neither let hatch for last surv after a 3 vs 1. Last one tried boop and he was killed with hits on hook.
And There are many killers like this guy that need win at any cost and show a lot of toxicity in game.
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@Bumbus said:
Just think about it. MMR is balancing your games so you get 50% killrate. Whatever you bring in your games, whatever perks you use, this will be true. So, if you are struggling in your games and don't get any kills - you will get lower MMR and more chill games. However, if you are struggling in your games, but cheese some kills in the end through your perk - your MMR won't get lower. The matchmaking thinks you just had an easy victory, and gives you even more skilled opponents in your next game. And then you have to cheese your kills again. It is a self-sustaining cycle.
Just a thought I wanted to share. I just realized this and dropped NOED from all my builds.
Let me adjust the title of your thread.... "NOED IS....FOR BAD KILLERS".
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0 fun on this game currently. Just sweatry tryhards that need win at cost of fun of the game. First 2 games facecamped on first hook.
3rd game I face a Pig. At beggining of game I just approach to say hi by boop the snoot (it was 10 seconds in game). I approach her bending on knees and pointing with finger. This killer attacks me instant, and chase me on a dead zone. 2nd hit, bear trap and bassement. 1 just suicided on hook... This community it´s so toxic....0 sportmanship, 0 honor, 0 fun.....just toxicity. And game desing encourages it.
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@Danielgdp3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2546771#Comment_2546771
It's a multiplayer game why do they have to let you enjoy it?
Do you stop shooting people in COD if you are dominating so they have fun?
In Friday the 13th if your Jason do you not kill people so they have can have fun?
In Rocket League do you stop scoring in a ranked match so the other team can and have fun?
"In Rocket League do you stop scoring in a ranked match so the other team can and have fun?"
Yes. I don´t need win 25-0 if my dominance is pretty clear. Don´t play the game to abuse or humilliate anyone. I´d prefer winning 8-4 instead.
Empathy and sportmanship is important in life and in videogames also.
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@JohnWeak said:
that kind of players to pollute the game ?
Most killers are playing like this at any MMR, do something ffs.
9 pages of insult, this guys has been playing the game for 2k hours, how many survivors does he have disgusted from the game ? How many did he pushed to uninstall or never come back ?
They care nothing about game toxicity. All games like that.
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@StarLost said:
This is one of those things that becomes pretty awkward for me, as I do try to consider that there is a living, breathing human on the other end of those avatars.
So - the situation. We've all been there.
Game starts, I manage to catch someone and they rage DC. Possibly other players follow. Or more annoying, just goes and stands AFK next to a hook somewhere.
Now, there are 2 or 3 survivors left, and maybe 3 or 4 gens.
I can either close the game out, or I can give them a break, chase them around, wound them, let them earn some BP and maybe let them escape.
I tend to do the latter. I don't like punishing other players because of one rager or troll and I feel legit bad.
However, wow - for every team that thanks me for doing this, another rages at me for 'holding the game hostage'. And of course, I get raged at if I just annihilate everyone.
It sort of feels like there is no right move here.
TL/DR: Survivors, in a situation where someone rage DCs or AFKs, would you prefer it if the killer just closes the game out ASAP, or would you prefer it if they went easy and let you earn some BP/escape?
First of all, thx for your concerning on the other players experience <3.
And relative to the game, I think it depends.....if survs are currently trying, I would start play suboptimal. Imagine you hook one guy, well, time to go the other part of the map looking for someone healthy or check some gen. Letting them rescue. Avoid tunnel, of course.
If someone doesn´t try or refuses to play, just kill him so he can move on. Farming points is not that bad. 5 or 4 gens for 2 survs is very zzzz, maybe u can hook one and give hatch to the other. But if there are not many gens remaining and you are feeling yourself nice, why not farming and letting them scape?
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@StarLost said:
For whatever reason.
For me:
Survivor: Claudette. Not only are they inevitably the most BM player, for some reason, but nothing urinates directly into my favorite breakfast cereal like a Blendette that wants to play hide and seek and stall the match out.
Killer: Doctor. I tend to startle easily, and this guy inevitably jumpscares me at least once a game. Also see: Spirit.
Survs: Dwight
Killers: Old spirit, Wraith.
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It's not like that when killer proxycamp with ruin and at the same time check gens nearby. Or hook someone in the middle of a 3 gen. Or has noed.
If camp tunnel first guy would mean 3 scapes, people wouldn't camp the first hook on tournaments. It's the most strong strat as killer. Abusive vs solo q. And the worst part is that it doesn't require high skill. Anybody can do it.
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@Zarathos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2537350#Comment_2537350
The wraiths gets what he want's then. He saw the game go bad tunnel the poor survivors and now that you gave up he knows he can keep doing this and it will turn all of his game's. It sucks but the best thing you can do is hammer them gens and make sure that the killer does not get a free win. Otherwise its gonna keep happening.
That being said its not your job to correct a way a killer plays. If there playing in a lame way then just focus on trying to snatch the victory from them. Hammer gens so by the time that camped players is dead you get the exit gate's ready and leave asap. Sometimes despite it all they will 4k but if every survivors has this mentality killers will learn real fast they are gonna lose games doing this.
Yeh. I know I'm caving my own tomb, you are right. But man, these injustices are just superior to me.
If I were playing on a tournament I'd definetely do it. But I just play for having fun. If I hammer the gens and scape leaving 1 or 2 guys on a hook I wouldn't see it as a win but like a honorless scape.
Most lamer toxic techniques on this game are the most powerful strats. This is a bad unhealthy game design that encourages toxicity and disrespect to rivals. Most people doesn't even care if the other people are having a nice game experience. Or even worst, they enjoy toxicity in game, on end game chat and on steam profiles. It's such a shame.
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@Zarathos said:
I do gens close to camping killers. Within view but making it impossible to guard the hooked and stop me banging out a gen. Some killer's will secure the kill but I have convinced a fair view killers to create enough room that a bt save or hell just a normal save was enough to buy the onhooked time to find a loop. As for exit gates you really need to put yourself at risk or accept the person hooked is going to die. If your not giving the killer an opportunity to get another down there not gonna move. If you care about the person being camped with 99% exits gates behind you then move to a precarious position and see if the killers takes the chase. Be mindful picking a powerful loop might be too much of a deterrent to take the chase.
Exit gates.... xD. Yesterday I went against ruin Wraith at red forest. He relatively soon hooks one guy. Some seconds later someone tries rescue and he was there camping. Hit to that guy, who leaves area injured. I wait for a bit and try unhook when I see Wraith running cloaked on a 15 metter radius.
Hooked guy is gonna enter phase 2 so I take a hit and unhook him. Wraith avoid me and go for tunnel.
At that point I just stop playing. I know that's legal according to DBD rules, but for me that's similar to cheating. Camp tunnel at 5 gens with great movility killer in game..... just too sweat and unfun for me. It's just playing the ez mode.
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@Clowning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2535762#Comment_2535762
That's another thing, skill isn't truly rewarded. I've often seen, what clearly was, the best player in the team die, just because the team screwed them over, be it by unhooking them in the Killer's face without BT, or by wasting all the pallets. But at the same time, the skill of a Survivor can never TRULY matter, because they ought to be doomed to go down as @NekoTorvic pointed out. Uncapping BPs for chases, while giving extra points for being camped is a band-aid solution I've seen suggested many times, yet that doesn't truly deal with the greater issue - The frustration that both parties are going to experience one way or another.
With killers is the same. Why would you need to learn how to J- flick with Billy if u can just wait for someone to unhook and take him down?
Huntress. She is powerful but very loopable at the same time as she has lowovement speed. Running into the certain loops can be very painful for her. You need lot of practise to chase propperly at the shack, u need to have good timing on hatchets when running a T-L. She is hard to play.
But.... U can just camp tunnel on a 3 gen area. So why would u need to learn how to loop?
I main her as killer and I'm not even a very good one huntress. But if I send someone early to the bassement eventually I'll just stop camping bassement because it's just unbearable for survivors. 1 comes to bassement, and in the best case scenario only will be able to trade hooks. But many times u can take both down.
So u can win people much more skilled than u, just playing scummy. Which is not fair, IMO.
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@NekoTorvic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2535757#Comment_2535757
The thing is that ultimately making a game so people "have fun" or "have a good time" or "enjoying the game" is kind of a nebulous, almost useless goal when you're designing something. You need to have a more concrete vision of what you want or else you find yourself in DBD's position where you have casual stuff and hardcore stuff clashing in frustrating ways, and dissonant objectives, and mechanics that don't work with each other, and you end up making people's experience kind of miserable in general.
Like, Imagine another type of game. Say Overwatch. If I play healer, and I die 50 times, and kill 1 person, but my team won, and I healed them, I still did my job and we still won and I still feel that victory, because the game told me what winning is, it set a specific goal, and I would either get it or I wouldn't, and the opposing team would either outplay us or they wouldn't. DBD doesn't offer that particularly well considering the type of game it is.
You can get 0 kills and a pip, which is odd. you can get 4 kills and a depip which is even weirder, cuz you clearly outplayed your opponets. As survivors you can all escape, and you can have a lengthy chase with the killer but black pip, because somehow the game thinks you didn't do enough? And individuals in both teams can pip at the same time. It's just very obtuse.
And yeah I agree with everything you said about teamwork, and that's the issue. DBD does a piss poor job at making survivors feel like they're working as a team for a common goal. So then survivors think about themselves, and survivors disregard the 1v4, and then we have problems of devs balancing for the 1v1, not the 1v4, or vice versa, and we have people constantly talking past each other, because nobody knows what DBD wants from them.
A clear example of this is when survivors complain about killers with difficult counterplay and they say "eventually he'll get me", and like yeah, they'll get you because counterplaying them is hard, and your function as a survivor is not to get chased for 5 gens and escape tbagging the killer at the exit gates. Your function is to outplay the killer as much as you can to stall for your team, if you held the killer for 30 seconds, that's good, if you held them for longer, that could be game winning. But they cant see that, because all they're thinking about is "dam this inconsistent counterplay, I got downed".
Like you said, we have issues with SWFs working as teams but solos not even considering the fact they're in a team, so then we find a bunch of people complaining about how lenient the game should be for each individual survivor, but that leniency would destroy the 1v4 balance, etc.
Honestly if they released a PTB with a new mode that they could experiment with, or maybe even if they had a new experimental mode every weekend or something, just so they could test out new ideas that could eventually make it into the base game, i'd ######### love it.
Exactly. Game is so confusing and unbalanced that needs a very deep redesign.
And as you mention, experiments should be done in other game modes and when already tested and devs got feedback, consider adding it to base game. Or not, and just add a new game mode with different rules.
This way people that like this meta can still play and ??enjoy??
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@dbarranco said:
After the implementation of SBMM and the devs constantly ignoring player input, I am so f-ing close to uninstalling this game. As killer, I am constantly getting frustrated over only and I mean ONLY playing against sweaty SWF squads that give me no chance of winning whatsoever. When I first started playing DBD (when Ghost Face was released) it was so much fun as I thought I was winning/losing an even amount of times and making ACTUAL PROGRESS towards getting better at the game.
But now with the introduction of SBMM, I haven't won a single game and I can't make any progress on getting better because I have no control over how the match plays out, and for the life of me I can't figure out what to improve on as killer because each game goes the same exact way: Survivors gen-rush and the gates are opened within 5 minutes, regardless of how many slowdown perks I use. Additionally, it makes my blood BOIL when survivors taunt you and rub it in your face that you cant win by t-bagging, flashlight clicking, etc.
To the devs, fix your goddamn game. It's not fun anymore for me, and for loads of other people in this community. This game has so much potential if you guys were to actually take our input seriously. The fact that you guys ignore us 9/10 times is infuriating and makes a lot of us want to just quit playing your game completely. So for the love of God, please please please PLEASE balance the game for Killers.
I'm also welcome to hearing other people's input as I know I probably sound biased lmao. All I ask is that you are respectful of my opinions, thanks :)
We deserve more than a tunnel camp vs gen rush simulator. Hate this meta.
We want close matches, action, chases and games that are not done in 5 minutes.
Give us another game mode meanwhile u adress these boring unfun mechanics.
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@Roadrunner said:
Hello Killer Mains,
I get toxic survivors in every game. How do you deal with them? Most of the time the game is not even fun, cause i cant play a chill round. I literaly camp in every game cause i try to punish toxic behaviour like this. What are you doing when you meet toxic survivors?
"I literally camp in every game". Maybe that's why u find so many toxic survivor lmao.
In case your toxicity would be a response to a provocation, I'd suggest you to camp tunnel the one guy being toxic. And then keep playing chill.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Do gens leave with 3 survivors don't need much IQ for that.
Which part don't u understand about repairing gens being the most boring part of the game? Do u really care nothing if people have a good time or not in game??
I don't play to win. If i am able to win it should be a reward to skill in terms of loop, bodyblocks, use of flashlights or pallets. Not because I press a button during 4 minutes.
And concerning killers it should be the same. Reward them for the high skill on chases, not for playing guardian dog around a hook.
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@Libervita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2536795#Comment_2536795
Agree, just press M1, without any skill, you can easily defeat all the killers.
I prefer to interact with Reverse Bear Traps instead of generators.
Saving teammates is more interesting.
+1
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@Adaez said:
Lets say the killer camps the first hooked survivor.It takes 120 seconds for you to die on hook if you dont try to unhook yourself.
It takes 80 seconds for a survivor to complete a generator alone,with no perks or addons.
Without perks like kindred you dont know if a killer camps or not,and more than often,more than 1 survivors will wasting time to try and save or at least check if the killer camps if not in a swf on comms.
If its a stealth killer that can hide his tr or use insiduous,not even kindred can help know knowing if the killer camps or not.
Camping is not a problem in a swf,survivors will just stay on gens,knowing the killer just camps.
But in soloq its a nightmare because never,and I mean never survivors dont try to go for the save and usually get downed in the process while no gens are being done.
It would be nice if they added something to know if a killer camps or not when you cant communicate with your teammates at least.
And u are right. Camp tunnel is the holy Grail for killers that want ez wins without commit into chases.
The only real alternative to camp tunnel is gen rush. And the only alternative to gen rush is camp tunnel. So the most powerful techniques are the only counterforce to itselfs. The problem here is that these techniques are most boring, unfun and honorless tactics.
So again, BAD GAME DESIGN. Give us a new mode focused on chase, interaction and with more sportmanship.
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2536541#Comment_2536541
Yep,I think some survivors just hate doing gens and look for any excuse to not do them.
It's the most boring job as survivor. How possible not to hate it?
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@Clowning said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2535483#Comment_2535483
Yeah, that's a good point. There's also the issue that, the better both players involved in a chase are, the less likely they are to do something interesting, or showcase skill, as they both understand how the loop is supposed to be played and when the 50/50 comes into play.
I almost wish that Survivors could do more things than mere running, dropping pallets and vaulting, as that would allow for more interactive chases that satisfy both players and encourage genuine skill. As of right now, the formula for a chase is extremely basic once fully understood.
Not to mention than if a surv is good on chase and killer is aware of that, he probably won't even try a chase and wait for him to be on a deadzone or a vulnerable situation.
Game don't encourage sweat and good chases. Camp tunnel is much more rewarding.
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@NekoTorvic said:
I think DBD has focus problems.
DBD seems to want to appeal to casual players, survivors need to hold M1 to win. They have a bunch of tools to negate their mistakes etc. At the same time, the devs are not shy about making killers that are ridiculously mechanically complex killers need to mind way more stuff in the game, how does that appeal to casuals?
The survivor's main objective is to do gens. The killer's main objective is to outplay the survivors repeatedly. Especially in high MMR outplaying the killer is pretty much just optional if you have a team to mash gens and stack up enough second chances. Seems unfair and contradictory.
The devs want to give survivors stuff to work as a team, but then they don't consider how those things can actually break the game when they do work as a team. When survivors actually work as a team with some of that stuff it creates frustrating and unwinnable scenarios.
And also the game is terribly designed to make survivors understand they are working as a team. Survivors have a very individualistic mentality to the point that I've literally seen survivors argue that DBD isn't a team game. Survivors getting camped get no feedback from the game that they're helping their team and they get no rewards for letting their team escape. It feels frustrating to have the killer chase you all game and then you're the only one that doesn't make it out, where in reality the game should massively reward survivors that do that because they guaranteed their team's escape.
The devs refuse to establish a clear win condition, where a team wins and the other team loses. Pips are just meh, and 2 escapes always translates to the killer struggling to hold control over the match. 3 kills or more for a win is the more obvious way to see winning. I genuinely do not give a rat's fart about the points I see and the end of the match or how many pips I get. But survivors can only see their win as them escaping because there's no incentive for them to work as a team.
DBD also has so many scenarios that make it so that the game is pretty much unwinnable at a certain point from the survivor's perspective. Depending on the killer, you can turn a 0k to a 4k during endgame if the survivors make mistakes and you outplay them enough. From a survivor's perspective, if you have 1 person dead on hook and one person out of the game at 3 gens, the game is pretty much over. This makes the game feel very frustrating and hopeless for survivors. But at the same time, survivors can do like 60% of their objective before some killers get 3 hooks, which can feel insanely frustrating and stressful for the killer.
I don't know how to fix any of this btw. Not without overhauling the entire game. Make it so that it's more of a back and forth between survivors and killers, that neither side is utterly hopeless at any point in the match, make it so that each side has to outplay the other instead of out-bullshitting the other, etc. Again, it feels like DBD kinda just lacks focus.
I neither care about win or lose condition. Well.... I like to scape from time to time, but I think win condition is totally subjective and arbitrary. On tournamena, win condition can be established by bloodpoints diff, or by hooks and gens system.
But regarding to average players, it's subjective. Some killers only consider win a 4 k, or 3 k and a surv scaping through hatch. Personally, I like playing hard at the beginning and eventually play friendly and let 2, 3 or all of them scape. First war and then chill. I have fun, they have fun = win win.
But as u mention, this game is supposed to be a 4 vs 1. We can agree SWF is a team game, but, what about solo? As u said, many survs think this is a individual game and stablish their win condition on their own scape.
Many survs won't bodyblock u or take the chase although u are on you'd be on your 2nd hook. Many survs won't even try a risky unhook or won't even try find a noed. If they scape letting you down it means they have won? Apparently.
And keep in mind that 90% of the people of this forum will tell you that if one fellow surv is being camped tunneled what u have to do is repair and let him die. So u can "win", as individual.
For me, " Win" = enjoy the game. Scape not necessarily. If I can sacrifice to let somebody out I also will be pleased.
These design problems of the game are very big and core of the game. Best thing devs could do is release a new game mode where they can experiment new rules and mechanics that they could add to the main game once propperly tested.
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I don't feel the game balanced at all. And I am experimenting less and less fun and motivation to play.
The higher ability you get on game (loops, flashlight, game knowledge), is becoming less and less important. As survivor your most efficient play is Hold M1 and let your tunneled mates being bullied.
And we can't blame people for playing the most effective way (tunnel, gen rush and a 3 killers pool is all you are gonna see on any tournament without added rules.
It's a horrible game design for rewarding people for playing the most unfun and unskilled way.
Said that, I'm not expecting them to adress a so complex problem soon. I'd be happy woth another game mode that encourages more interaction, fun and sportmanship.
I
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2535363#Comment_2535363
My comment was directed at OP, not you.
Oh! Didn't see it. Sorry.
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@Orion said:
Those other players also just want to have fun. So why is your fun more important than theirs?
Don't put words I didn't say in my mouth. I didn't claim my fun is more important than the others's.
But as u might understand, I can only speak about my experience and the lack of fun I'm experimenting more and more lately. And that's what I do.
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2535159#Comment_2535159
then you'd actually face players who don't sweat so much and then magic
Your wish is granted, you now get facecamping Insidious Bubbas in every game.*
* Assuming that facecamping lowers your MMR.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2535219#Comment_2535219
For me at least the problem is not so much about "winning" (in quotations because the win condition is actually not clearly defined at all) but about having fun. I feel like a lot of complaints that talk about winning/losing are actually more about having fun / not having fun.
As an example: I generally play without add-ons. I know I could do a lot better if I was using add-ons as the vast majority don't have any downsides, only upsides. Still, even with the new MMR, I sometimes get matched against SWF who use Brand New Parts, Keys, ... and it doesn't feel fun for me. Could I use add-ons to get more kills in those games? Yes, but it wouldn't actually increase my fun.
OP seems to have the same problem. If they stopped using the perks they are currently using they could probably lower their MMR naturally, but that, based on my experience at least, won't necessarily mean that you get more fun games. There are a lot of mechanics that, regardless of MMR or "skill level" of the player(s) are just extremely unfun to go against and it is just extremely frustrating because some of these issues, like being found first and getting camped to death, are ancient and nothing has been really done to combat that.
Some people think if you get your MMR reduced your game experience will get better. And that's far to be true.
U are gonna join the typical urban evasion players, baby killers, insidious Bubbas that are not good but eventually will take someone down and facecamp, deaths on first hook, etc.
So more trash and unbalanced games, but with less skilled people.
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2 games in a row today vs Wraith.
First one in the Red Forest. 5 gens and wraith takes 1 surv relatively quick. The rest was just hard camp tunnel. Patrolling on a 15 metters area and tunnel. People didn't even move but he didn't care. He won.
2nd game. Wraith finds me early and start the first chase. I run a T-L and connect with the shack. There is an Meg afk with crows inside. This guy ignores me when he is on a 2 metters distance and take 2 hits on Meg. I spam him "no / follow me", but this **** just takes afk guy to th bassement.
I follow him and just spam pointing with finger. He doesn't doubt and hook me also. But, hey, it's me who plays to win I guess...
Majority of killers I face don't have any sportmanship or honor and don't want close games. It's a rarity to find a good killer that commits on chases and show some respect in game and out of the game.
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@SirGando said:
Thank you. 4 less survivors to deal with.
People like you shouldn't even be able to participe in forums. Maybe you don't agree with his oppinion, but I'm sure there are more respectful forms to show it.
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@Ferr0r said:
Dear devs
Time to rethink your game.
Every game i am countering the same killers with the same perks, so i have to counter them with the usual survivor perks to stay alive.
But also too many times i get facecaming or tunneling killers. Me and my friends just want to have fun but get denied because of tryhards. 90% of the perks dont get used because of the tryhards. Fun should be prior.
We're out, maybe we come back when the game had some drastic changes.
Cheers.
And you are and your friends are right. This meta is totally unfun: it's a race between gen rush and camp tunnel. With Survs and killers with metaperks all the time.
But some people here apparently don't care at all and are just focused on the most optimal (and unfun) strats all the time. Although if their victory is just stand near the first hook they do for minutes. Or if they have to repair 3 gens by themselves when their teammates are being tunneled.
We need a new mode focused on chases and action. Not focusee on gen rush and tunnel.
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@danielmaster87 said:
This new patch is great and all (not entirely) but it's not changing much.
Gen speed is the #1 thing holding killers back from competing with the survivors. They just take too little time to complete. Killers have to run 4 gen defence perks. "I do just fine and I don't run gen defence." Then you're not at high level. We need to move away from needing gen defence to compete. Perhaps making the gens take longer would fix that. Just add 10-20 seconds. That could just as easily be 10-20 seconds breaking a totem or searching a chest. It's not a big deal. "But the gens will take foreverrrrr." That's what you said with old Ruin, yet even then gens got done in 5 minutes. Granted every map was Haddonfield-level OP for survivor back then, but not much has changed on that either.
Even when killers don't get looped into oblivion, and end chases really quicky, the gens fly. They can run Pop, Ruin, Corrupt, Tinkerer, you name it, but survivors have greater pressure still. All you have to do is split up on gens. The killer can't be everywhere at once. No amount of skill or game knowledge is gonna save the killer from survivors who know how to pressure gens. The last gen is getting done.
So if there's no point in defending gens, because you'll lose them anyway, killers will just start bringing NOED and Rancor for mass slugs at the end. I don't think we want that to be the only viable strategy for killer, which brings into question why strategies like M&A Deathslinger are getting gutted.
"Survivors just need a second objective". Well I'll tell you: boon totems are not it. A survivor will go and activate their boon totem, which gives them some sort of bonus, and then it will be back to gens as usual. It's not slowing the survivors down gen-wise.
So a decision needs to be made here. Are we going to make gen defence perks stronger, or are we going to up the gen times. Because if we're not doing either of those, the killer base's days are numbered for this game.
Repairing gens is the most boring action as survivor. Increasing the time of that process would be a very bad solution.
Games should be longer, I agree on that part.
Gen rush and camp tunnel shouldn´t be the most powerful strats in game.
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@Konnor24 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2528917#Comment_2528917
Ive tried to avoid tunnelling but its just becoming more and more necessary. Which is also why i understand why killers do it. Its just very unfun on both sides.
I agree with the changes apart from BBQ and DS. Maybe they were just bad picks though. I believe Kindred should be Baseline, whether SWF or solo. Even when im a killer i get annoyed at survs who dont try and save (and thats when im not camping). BBQ and DS are just too strong of a perk to have baseline.
At the beggining i thought Kindred should be basekit also, and that it could help with camptunnel.
And it's a chance. But I just noticed that on tournaments (where everybody plays optimal and they have "communication kindred", killer still proxy camp tunnel and the other guys focus on repair.
So it made me think that camp tunnel is the most powerful strat in game for killer. That's why they use it although is not fun.
So the real solution is making it less effective and giving killers a good strat that encourage them to distribute hooks. Other idea I had is modify efficiency of survs repairing generators. (4 survs remaining - 90 % speed, 3 surv - 115 % speed progression, 2 survs - 140 %).
In conclussion, although kindred would be a good addition for solo q, I think it wouldn't finish with the current meta of gen rush vs tunnel.
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@Konnor24 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2528917#Comment_2528917
Ive tried to avoid tunnelling but its just becoming more and more necessary. Which is also why i understand why killers do it. Its just very unfun on both sides.
I agree with the changes apart from BBQ and DS. Maybe they were just bad picks though. I believe Kindred should be Baseline, whether SWF or solo. Even when im a killer i get annoyed at survs who dont try and save (and thats when im not camping). BBQ and DS are just too strong of a perk to have baseline.
But if you wanna encourage chase instead of camp tunnel u also have to reward killers in game, not just with a rep + and kind words on end game chat.
Watching auras of survivors would be a good motivation to start a chase, and also a movement speed buff when they come out of the hook area (this would help a lot to m1 killers) . And this way camping becomes more improbable. If u also give ds base kit (till EGC), killers will avoid tunnel because of the 100% stun chance.
With these changes killers wouldn't spend much time on searching hidden survs, and we would have many more chases (most fun part of the game). I think it would be a win win.
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@Apexgnifrums said:
Killers camp tunnel because survivors genrush.
Survivors genrush to punish tunneling camping killers.
You can't break out of this circle unless bhvr does 2 things AT THE SAME TIME:
1) Increase time to escape (with second objective)
2) heavily punish tunneling and camping to make it not viable anymore.
Both things have to happen at the same time to not mess with the other side. The likelihood of both things to happen by its own is already super low. Both things happening at the same time in perfect balance is never going to happen I'm afraid.
This meta game encourages gen rush and tunnel unfortunetely. Most powerfull strat is the less funny strat (bad game design). Most of the people would prefer be more focused on chases. Even some killers just refuse to use tunnel intentionally although they know is always the best strat. I try to evade it as killer and only use it if I´m in trouble so I can get pressure back.
So as u say, devs should slow down surv scapes, punish camp tunnel, and reward chases (BBQ basekit, increased movement speed for killer when not in chase, DS basekit only working until EGC,....). Idk, something like that.
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@SweetTerror said:
Decided to give killer another go, and it's still a sweatfest for me. I miss not being able to use meme builds. I used to like running with chase builds because the chase is what I found the most fun, but now thanks to SBMM, all gens will fly within a matter of minutes.
BHVR is all about statistics, and no doubt thanks to SBMM they will notice just how heavily used gen defense perks will now be. They were always popular before, but now it's a damn near necessity in order to just tie. The MMR should also highlight just how ridiculously strong SWF can be. If the game detects people playing together, the killer should get some kind of a buff. Have bloodlust start early, something, anything to help counter that situation, because nothing a killer brings into the match can properly counter a well coordinated team on comms.
So your only chance is go with top killer with control gen perks and camp tunnel. Which force the survs to gen rush. Which force the killer to ruin undying camp tunnel.
It´s the never ending fking story. This meta game is extremely boring to play. Most fun part of the game is the chases. But if as killer u go in a good chase with a healthy survivor on a good loop, game will punish you. But if you plant your killer ass on a zone and patrol around a hook, game rewards you.
With survs is the same. Most efficient action is hold m1. I don´t need any skill to hold m1 and that shoudln´t be my key to victory. Looping the killer and helping teammates should be it instead.
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@Libervita said:
I agree with this
After all, officials are afraid to make changes to the main goal of the game
It may be a feasible way to hold the extra gameplay independently
However, this may distract players and make the waiting time longer.
I also think a new game mode would be the perdect scenario for proving new mechanics / rules devs are afraid to introduce in the game.
It also could be a little break between games or a warm up match for those inmersed into the MMR system that want play more chill for a while.
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@baseballfan4877 said:
tbh I wouldn't come back. this game is hell and killer is made for masochists. You could always play survivor, but holding m1 and w the whole game without seeing the killer is boring
I used to play a lot of solo surv. But I just got to my limit of full repairing gens and tunnel games. I find current meta game boring and toxic.
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@SweetTerror said:
Decided to give killer another go, and it's still a sweatfest for me. I miss not being able to use meme builds. I used to like running with chase builds because the chase is what I found the most fun, but now thanks to SBMM, all gens will fly within a matter of minutes.
BHVR is all about statistics, and no doubt thanks to SBMM they will notice just how heavily used gen defense perks will now be. They were always popular before, but now it's a damn near necessity in order to just tie. The MMR should also highlight just how ridiculously strong SWF can be. If the game detects people playing together, the killer should get some kind of a buff. Have bloodlust start early, something, anything to help counter that situation, because nothing a killer brings into the match can properly counter a well coordinated team on comms.
U can't be much focused on chases when gens fly. As u say chases are the most fun part of the game, but meta game penalises u for chases. Focus on gens and tunnel is the optimal strat.
And As surv, best you can do is M1. Game is very unfun nowadays.
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@Tower_XVI said:
Sometimes it can be a good thing to take a break, even for a while. Playing something else while waiting for content especially with the big midchapter coming can help alleviate some of that fatigue. Even still though, it just feels weird to talk about a game that you're supposed to be enjoying like that. I don't think anyone should feel compelled to play something for the sake of it, despite how bad that timesink can make you feel.
Hi, Tower, and ty for your reply.
When I discovered DBD on a gameplay, I knew that DBD was my game even before playing it.
So i started to play and investigate the terms, perks, killers, etc. I had much fun playing and improving (looping, flashlight, etc). And I love some characters (Meg, Nea, Huntress, Pig...).
If I complaint here, is because although I love this game, I think current meta (gen rush vs camp tunnel), is totally unfun to play. And I think this is a bad game design for making these strats the most powerful strats in game.
I think there are more people tired of this metagame, that like me just wanna have fun and enjoy chases and interaction between players.
That's why I'm asking for a new game mode more oriented to chases instead of hold m1. The idea of repairing boring generators totally discourages me to play the game.
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@VonCrow said:
Gens going this fast basically means short games, which means basically negative stuff for everyone:
- Less fun and BP for everyone.
- Survivor gameplay being just M1.
- Killers forced to run 4 antigen perk - no space for fun builds or perks.
- Killers forced to camp and tunnel to secure at least one kill - bad experience for everyone.
- More bubbas, more Noed.
I wish both sides could see this as something bad for all of us. We should be in the same boat: we want this game to be fun.
We need another game mode. This meta game is totally unfun. I´ve stopped playing drastically because of that,
We want have fun. Not play every single game tryharding with most boring mechanics like if we were on a sweaty tournament.
NEW GAME MODE with focused on interaction and fun. Take the generators out from new game mode also.
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I want another game mode. Something not related to repair gens and more focused on chases or interaction with killers and / or survs.
Maybe a 5 vs 5 capture the flag (1 killer ans 4 survs on each team) , race against the clock survival mode..... Idk.... But no more boring m1 gens.
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I also used to hate Spirit because nowadays i consider her abusive. But I really hope she remains strong after nerf and both sides can have more enjoyable and balanced games with her after patch.
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@Saad135 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2514846#Comment_2514846
Where is the Meg skin? Artemisha
In the store. I´ve bought it one hour ago. Maybe u need to restart your game