Archol123
Archol123
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@Mentally_Mechanical said:
This has been something on my mind for quite awhile, and since I haven't really seen any posts that share my sentiment, I decided to make one myself. I feel like, as years have gone by and new perks and mechanics have come out, stealth has become worse and worse to the point of almost uselessness. As somebody who prefers stealth gameplay (note, that doesn't mean I hide all game, I just prefer evading the killer) it makes playing survivor that much more aggravating.
With the glut of information provided to killers, via scratch marks, loud noise notifications, crows (sometimes) and auras, often times I find myself unable to get out of a chase no matter what I do, and sometimes I can't avoid one to begin with. It kinda blows having my preferred playstyle be nearly impossible to achieve without dedicating multiple perks to it.
I think my main reason for writing this post is wanting to hear what everybody else thinks on the topic. Do you think stealth is too weak, and/or there's too much info to work with?
Stealth is peoblematic in the sense of avoiding interaction with the killer, because he needs that interaction to down you and therefore achieve is goal. So if it was too effective you would basically be unable to play as killer. Besides the obvious point where stealthy survivors are on of the most annoying encounters you can have, as it makes you feel useless while walking around not finding anyone.
Besides that it can also be a disadvantage for your team because by avoiding interaction with the killer hooks will not be shared evenly therefore making the tunnel way easier or even required because if you can only find 2-3 survivor as the 4 th one is just hiding the entire time you try to find him you might as well ignore that guy.
So while some people may find the playstyle interesting it is boring for the killer and a sub optimal choice if you want your team to succeed, at least in some ways.
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@MSX_exe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680726#Comment_3680726
Okay, what about when a survivor with OTR steals a chase that would mean the world to me just because he has 80 second endurance
"Just hit him bro" am I right?
What do you mean by steals a chase? It is not like the survivor can decide who the killer will chase, sure they can purposefully put themselves in a worse position to make themselves more attractive to be chased, but after all you as the killer decide who to chase...
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@xltechno said:
Even if the hook state reaches 9, one kill is a defeat for the killer, and the hook state management tactics on the survivor's side should be praised. Survivors with skills to counter tunnels manage hook states very well.
If the killer manages to 8 hook people that is mostly due to the killer explicitly wanting to do so...
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680407#Comment_3680407
his mobility is terrible. he has to commit to decisions in the match. More bottles, more duration and faster activation do nothing for his map presence. They only improve his 1vs1. Clown lacks ability to slowdown gen-rush.
It took 2 years for clown's pink bottle to not have m/s slowdown when throwing a bottle and to add yellow antidote which was largely useless beyond cigar box add-on. It took another 2 years for them to buff antidote to be more relevant chase tool vs good survivors. Now we just need wait for another 2 years for BVHR to unnerf pinky finger so that he can finally use pink bottle and yellow bottle with pinky finger.
First of all the yellow bottles do something for his map presence in the sense of faster map traversal and somewhat a counter to holding w, sure he does not suddenly become super fast but it helps quite a bit. Having two more bottles means you can sometimes afford to use a bottle or two to get around the map without having to reload immediately afterwards. Getting sped up to 126.5 is not too bad in my opinion, so his map mobility is at least better than that of other 115 killers.
As for slowdown, yeah sure he does not have build in slowdown, however getting quick downs is probably the best way to create pressure and if we consider the 200 page guide that explains you how to get a hit on every tile then he is not necessarily bad in that category either.
Most killers only work in the 1v1 category, very few are real 1v4 killers like Oni for example.
Why pinky finger? I don't think the exposed effect should be used that way, how about giving it a new effect?
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I just wish you could decide to have default chase music so you don't have to listen to those horrendous sounds called chase musics... Like seriously we have like 7 or so that are all a 2 second loop of washing machine sounds...
And other than that an option to disable voice lines would also be nice, just because they tend to get old after some time...
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@MSX_exe said:
Can anyone explain to me WHY does OTR have EIGHTY seconds of endurance? Like, give me one good reason OTR needs 80 seconds of endurance. You want to nerf tunneling? REVERT DECISIVE STRIKE TO 5 SECONDS (And remove the fall stagger, that's dumb as hell). Off the record gives so much power to the survivors, it also lets them bodyblock and completely win the game because hey, 80 seconds of endurance is completely fair and balanced, right?
Are you complaining about the survivor doing nothing for that long to progress the game? Dude that thing could last forever and I would not care because that is just a survivor not doing anything to keep the endurance. What else can you want? This guy is giving you a free 3v1 without even dying on hook.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680311#Comment_3680311
my opinion is that clown was B-tier killer with pinky finger. Current clown got shift in power where he lost lethality(instant down) for better anti-loop/pallet play. As a result, he is now B-tier as base. Basically them nerfing clown pinky finger has sealed the deal that he can never go beyond B-tier.
Clown finally got that add-on nuked, and has had the visual effect taken off his tonics, in exchange got 2 more bottles, and a half second faster antidote cloud spawn, and a 1s longer antidote speed boost. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those nerfs seem to outweigh the buffs, or at the very least go even... but if he was supposedly weak without Pinky Finger... what exactly has changed to say that Clown is now balanced?
Each of those buff are pretty substantial buffs especially the faster 0.5 second cloud change. The issue with clown now is that clown lacks any map presence. He has no ability snowball anymore. Pinky finger really helped his snowball potencial and map presence because if he found survivor out of position and grouped up, he could often get muti-downs on healthy survivors. Now he can't do that. He has to 1vs1 each survivor one a time.
This means that if survivor outplays you, even once, clown has no hope of comeback. he loses automatically on the spot. He has to win every single chase in under 30 seconds and any mechanical error or small good play for survivor will force clown to lose. there is absolutely no margin for error. In old pinky finger clown, he had greater margin for error. I kinda hope pinky finger get unnerfed so that clown gets more viability.
I would argue that map presence comes from mobility and because of longer effect and more bottles I would argue his map presence has been increased, you can more often afford to use a yellow bottle to move around faster, as before this would have resulted in a bigger disadvantage in chase.
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680142#Comment_3680142
Dunno, fake pallets and snares both are fairly uniques abilities. Why giving him a brand new power that they could give to a new killer instead? They should keep both and enhance them, like allowing him to create a fake gen as well or something.
Because even then he is still boring to play and play against and has basically nothing killer specific to learn. He would just be a killer with very little dephts and that's just not good design... A playable character should always have some stuff that takes time to pick up so you can differ the skill of people by the way they play the character, but some killers just don't have that in a killer specific sense and that is just not good design. Because since there is not much to learn about the way to play that character and his power is not really fun to use either, as it is just "put stuff on floor"... I don't know just sounds super boring... You don't have a skill shot or a neat little trick to learn that requires some time and effort... You can literally master the killer specifics in like 10 min... And keep in mind I'm talking about killer specific stuff... This excludes general m1 killer gameplay, map awareness, game sense as to what people are most likely doing currently and what you should be doing... As those are all general killer skills that are not specific to only one of them.
In summon what is there about Freddy that you cannot learn within 10 min of time?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680203#Comment_3680203
Well I was kinda meaning that it seems to me you have to be a fair bit better at Clown than the respective skill of the survivors to go even. When I was saying "average", I was talking relative.
Balanced killers should be survivors vs. killers of equal skill should mostly go even, such as Ghost Face, Huntress, Demogorgon.
Overpowered killers would be survivors vs. killers of equal skill resulting in more killer wins, such as Nurse, Blight, Spirit.
Underpowered killers would be survivors vs. killers of equal skill should result in more survivor wins, such as Myers, Trapper, maybe Sadako.
To me Clown always fell in the latter, where at even levels of skill will usually result in Clown getting ties or beaten, and wins come from Survivors making a horrendous mistake. This has been what I've seen from content creators and my own experience as and against, and suffice to say you shouldn't need to master every loop and tile in every map to be beating scrubs like me and my level.
As Clown when I've faced a good set of survivors you really feel it. This happens on all killers ofc, but on Clown (prior to these changes) it doens't take many mistakes for a game to start slipping irredeemably away from you. There is a reason he tends to be ranked low. His problems is he's basically got 1 thing, really good anti loop. So I'm not saying that a good Clown player will not be able to win games, but it seems to me the relative skill level of Clown needs to be higher than on other killers in order to win, and he has a pretty clear skill ceiling that at best makes him only average (and that is debatable).
I mean to break it down to the basics to get a hit as killer you need to outplay the survivor, to avoid a hit as survivor you don't need to outplay the other side you just need to not get outplayed... Might seem to be semantics at first but I think it is a bit more than that. The whole concept is basically that you need to force the other side into making mistakes, and very few killers can get hits despite the other side not making mistakes.
The question to these categories is at what skill level? Because as soon as you go beyond average those categories don't exist anymore in this way. Really good survivors or comp survivors won't lose against some of those killers that are average and even wins against spirit nurse or Blight can happen rather frequently. But sure if we look at the average survivor then maybe.
You don't need to master every loop, you can also just kick the pallet... Like that's the whole point, you can train to be able to outplay the pallets Gideons or you just force the drop and kick it... And most tiles have similar solutions anyway... So the effort is not that big to get a rough idea of what to do. I think for clown the 20 80 rule should somewhat apply, with 20% of the work towards mastery you will get around 80% of the result... Most tiles should work by the same rule, just some special ones require seperate plans that need to be learned first.
Some killers only have good anti loop and nothing else and are still considered really good, for example Deathslinger. I d be curious to see how the clown guide creator performs against really good or even comp survivors.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680177#Comment_3680177
I mean, I get what you're saying, but Hillbilly is rewarded now because he's been buffed... for years he has only been played by a handful of players, who yes have mastered and can play him well... but even with their mastery, is outclassed by a good portion of the roster on much less masterful players... doesn't that by definition mean that the killer is weak? Difficult to learn, hard to master, and average performance when you do master him?
Regarding Myers, he absolutely IS artificially propped by Tombstone Piece. He similarly can't be buffed because that add-on exists. Myers is one of the weakest killers in the game (for the record, I love normal Myers, both playing against and as)... but the only reason he has any threat at all is he MIGHT (and probably does) have Tombstone Piece. I've usually been killed when he's somehow managed to stalk himself up to EW2 99 within 40s of the start on a teammate then surprises me with an instant pop Tombstone Piece stab.
It's fair if you see Clown doing well. I'm asking for peoples experiences, but my experience thus far facing Clown, is he's been smashed every game... as I say, I barely even saw him in 3 games, because it took him so long to catch anyone, I never needed to come off gens to help the team. Clown has always been my achilles heel, I play awful against him, and even I was able to waste so much of his time when he came after me in the forth game... I don't have a big sample size, cause I rarely see him, and few times I have, he seemed to get beaten up. 3/4k everytime, and even the 3k, was cause it took him an ages to tunnel out 1 player.
If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but he doesn't look particularly strong right now.
Average performance means average killer doesn't it? A bit of a contradiction to say the killer is weak because he performs average... I don't know how good Clown is when masters, but I would say at least average,maybe even better. And I would not say clown is hard to master, Billy is hard to master because of the mechanical skill, clown seems to be more of a learning thing similar to trapper, you don't need mechanical skill but knowledge how to use the bottles not necessarily be super precise how to throw them? Therefore I think hard to master is not accurate... More like time consuming to master?
I think even without tombstone he is still a lot better than Freddy... But yeah sure, people think of him as stronger because of the addon, but we should not value a single addon so highly as to push up the killer a lot because of it.
I mean that once again just sounds like weak players... That's the same with me and some nurses... I had games where I ran a nurse the entire game around the house side of dead dog, and not because of i am good but because the nurse was super trash... To evaluate whether the clowns you go against know what they are doing or not should be rather simple, do they use yellow bottles? No? - > in experienced clown or loop that is not playable... Usually it is fairly easy to tell whether or not the opposing player is decent or not...
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680113#Comment_3680113
Ok... but why would anyone read a 200 page guide and practise for 1000's of hours on a M1 killer who has no additional utility or strength outside of closing off loops to get to that level instead of playing a killer you don't have to master to be effective? Maybe Doctor? Artist? Dredge? Cenobite?
I don't even like Clown, playing as or against, but being as unbiased as I can be, the man has for years been touted as a killer needing buffs, but couldn't ever be given them because Pinky Finger exists, and any buff would make Clown oppressive with that add-on. That is actually something that I can quote Otzdarva saying himself. If we're going to reference Otzdarva, that very video you're referring to, he points out that he tried the suggestions in the 200 guide, and I'm paraphrasing, but his conclusion was there are some good and very interesting points, but it's not something he would recommend to majority of players.
Clown finally got that add-on nuked, and has had the visual effect taken off his tonics, in exchange got 2 more bottles, and a half second faster antidote cloud spawn, and a 1s longer antidote speed boost. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those nerfs seem to outweigh the buffs, or at the very least go even... but if he was supposedly weak without Pinky Finger... what exactly has changed to say that Clown is now balanced?
I mean there are a lot of killers that require a lot of work and time investment to get good results with and people still took the time to learn them, for example Billy, before the rework, ofc currently all the effort is basically worth it. I don't know man, I didn't read it entirely either, because 200 pages is too excessive and I don't particularly like clown. But he is capable of good results... Just because it takes a lot of effort does not mean he is weak, you could say he is weak unless you take a big amount of time to learn him, but as far as I'm concerned, that would be a good thing. It should take you some time to learn how to play a specific killer... Would be awful if every killer is as simple to learn and master as for example legion.
I mean ofc he would not recommend it... It is a 200 page guide xD The majority of players probably play more than 1 killer and the amount of time it takes to work through that and remember the stuff is just completely out of balance for the casual gamers. Which is fair, like I said I'm also not too interested in it, but that does not mean there is no potential.
I would say it is a buff... The blurry effect didn't have much of an impact on decent players, and just because 1 iri addon got nerfed shouldn't result in such a downgrade, because in that case you are only taking into account one addon... That's like saying Myers is a better killer than he is because of tombstone piece.
You could however say his average strength got increased but maybe his max strength got slightly decreased, we could compromise on that I think... But as it is an iri addon you cannot run every game unless you have excessive amounts o BP spend on him I don't think the nerf to that addon is too big of a deal for his overall strength.
I never thought of clown as weak, his chase is actually quite good, it is just that he has nothing besides his chase... I guess the two extra bottles give him slightly better map control... But yeah... I still like Scott's changes for clown with the teleport feature, the whole concept was quite fun ^^
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/408532/addon-dependent-killers
- Myers: Tomestone makes him A-S tier, without it he's one of the worst
- Hag: Range addons (the new basekit changes might make it better but haven't played her yet
- Doctor: Range addons (same as hag)
- Bubba: Chil + Beast marks basically required
- Freddy: Iri that starts everyone asleep required
- Pig: Charge speed required
- Legion: Duration+Movementspeed required
- Plague: Iri required (because survivors never cleanse)
- Deathslinger: Reload Required
- Twins: Toy sword requried
- Pinhead: Extra chains spawning when they break them with the environment required
- Wesker: Egg required
- Knight: Map required
- Chucky: Vaulting thing required
Those are all the ones where, yeah it isn't necessarily REQUIRED. But it feels really bad to not use these addons.
For Legion, I saw a video about his addons some time ago, where someone did the math on the speed increase per frenzy hit addon... And apparently unless you run never sleep pills the brown addon that increases your lunge is better than that addon. I did not check if the math done was correct, but the explanation seemed reasonable.
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@WaveyTrey said:
Basically allow Freddy to lay down pallets and snares. Then his add ons revolving around pallets apply additional penalties. Like causing noticeable bloodstains to trail a survivor that dropped the pallet for X amount of time. If the survivor is injured while throwing a blood pallet they become broken for X seconds. Something like that.
What never made sense to me about Freddy is that a subpar add on makes Freddy’s power downright useless! This has never changed. Even after the Clown made this really possible through his rework.
I would be more in favor of a full rework, even with both powers he would still be rather boring and without much of a skill cap, clown has some nice interactions with both bottles, but Freddy's two powers don't really have that synergy.
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@UndeddJester said:
Not gonna lie, I always hated getting hit by a Clown bottle... I'm already clumsy and his bottles always made me stumble around like even more of a goof and make a stupid mistake.
Each Clown I've faced, I ended up leaving having never even seen him, and wondered what was going on. I finally got hit by a bottle after the rework the other day... and there is barely a visual effect... it's slightly blurry, but that's it... I know the visual effect needed to go for those people who suffered motion sickness, but damn... Clown seems like he really sucks now, like REALLY sucks. He feels like he's been nerfed to have barely any potency or threat at all.
I don't get disoriented anymore, and thus the only mistakes I make are the same as any other killer, scrrwung up my timings at loops, just I'm slower. Pinky Finger got rightly nerfed to the floor... but Clown feels... pretty darned easy to face. I was expecting like my world to go dark and get partially obscured by a pink haze or something... but beyond the slow, bottles basically do nothing...
I haven't played against many admittedly, so maybe I've just had struggling Clowns who are learning... but how is everyone else finding him? Because he looks pretty darn weak to me...
I enjoy playing vs. Clown about as much as I enjoy stubbing my toe on the sofa as I walk by... but I also don't want to see a Killer on his knees...
There is a 200+ pages clown guide, Otzdarva made a video about it, and the guy that wrote it basically explained how to outplay every loop in the game, clown is not weak, people just don't play him well enough, me included. And the blur effect felt quite useless anyway, so I Don think it changed much about his power to remove it.
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@TheResidentEvil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679051#Comment_3679051
Thanks for your response! And yeah that makes sense. I mean this chapter was great but the the launch of this event has been pretty scuffed. It’s strange.
Fair, I find the event rather weird as well...
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I would usually say 7 or 6 is a tie and 8 and above is a win, regardless of kills.
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@гришка said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679530#Comment_3679530
still better than current version where he is basically a joke for survivors. I think counterplay would be grouping together so survivors can wake each other up slowing charge speed of his ability or it would be clocks, or both idk, im not dev, but i kinda don’t like the fact that devs only monitoring at killers killrate and not just common sense and gameplay-wise aspects, like they see freddys killrate above 60%(bc new players struggle against him) and think he is ok, with which any adequate killer tier list will disagree
The reasoning is fair, however I would prefer some actual skillful stuff and not basic things like that... Also grouping up as counterplay is a bit odd, as you basically should almost never group up but split pressure.
It is sometimes odd how the devs make decisions, like the one time where they wanted to nerf engravings on Billy for God knows what reason xD Makes you really think they only have an excel sheet that tells them how often an addons gets used and for Billy who only had like 3 or 4 good or decent addons engravings must have been the top ones...
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@гришка said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679347#Comment_3679347
well, for survivors playing skillfully means delaying falling asleep and in chase it depends on what version of dream pallets: first one - then you need to stun him, which basically 100% depends on skill and how you read your opponent psychologically, second one(my fav one) and third one - just predrop pallets gaining distance, for freddy playing skillfully means finding every survivor and having an ability to take the full potential of his 2 mins ability, which unlike oni can’t be turned off. He would be similar to oni, but his ability won’t be as strong as oni. Also what skillful can you learn while playing freddy now? It is m1 killer who barely uses snares and pallets are good only against solo q. While the reworked freddy will change standard timings of the chase making it new experience for both sides.
But you said it is like old Freddy so basically pressing a button to make the close by survivor fall asleep, how exactly do you avoid falling asleep skillfully at this point? It is not like he can miss this like a skillshot or something?
Or you just use enduring and don't respect any pallets... Because either you get stunned for barely a second or the pallet just disappears.
Besides that you didn't even mention he would still have his snares? I just thought it is pallets only, as you didn't say a thing about that.
Finding every survivor... OK how exactly is that killer specific? And can you not just run lethal pursuer?
I dont really see any killer specific skill with this version.
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@lukeneves said:
Like I said, change is coming. Case closed.
I mean yes and we already know that for like 3 months? Did you somehow manage to miss that?
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@гришка said:
at the start of a match he is like old freddy: needs to make survivors fall asleep, the more survivors are asleep the faster his main ability charges(instead of the teleport).
Main ability “the ultimate nightmare”:
For the next 2 mins of a match:
- all pallets become dream ones, but if dropped on freddy he will be stunned but the pallet will destroyed automatically, if dropped not on freddy the pallet is gone (alternate version: dream pallets can be dropped, but can’t stun freddy(aka like current dream pallets) but freddy can go through the dropped pallet, breaking the pallet and slowing himself down) ((second alternate version: dream pallets work as normal ones, but freddy can destroy them from a distance(like masquerade event) ))
- any dream pallet that is gone in dream world will be gone irl
- auras of all survivors who are further than 32 meters are revealed(if in locker then aura of that locker is revealed and freddy can tp to that locker and grab the survivor like dredge does)
- freddy gains ability to teleport behind survivors whose aura is revealed(combination of singularity tp and current freddy tp) ((can’t spam it like hux, cd like 30-60 secs for each survivor))
- during “the ultimate nightmare” survivors will see the blood snares behind their backs (which will move aka shadow mechanic from singularity) from which freddy will appear while teleporting, teleport takes roughly 2 seconds.
- genspeed is reduced by some percentage (not sure if necessary)
- either freddys lunge attack is increased by 60% or his speed increases by 5%
- freddys successful attack cd is reduced by 30%
- freddy vault speed is increased by 40%
After 2 minutes all survivors are awake and freddy needs to gain his ability again.
Some notes:
- falling asleep is the same way it was with old freddy, and freddy can still chase survivors during dream, but will not have any of “the ultimate nightmare” bonuses (all pallets counts as normal, not dream ones)
- the idea of rework is to make him a phase killer and chase oriented, while being busted version of m1 killer, but has a weak start of a match (combination of oni and singularity)
- survivors still have counterplay as hiding at the start of a match, kinda like prolonging taking first hit with oni, so info perks are great on him but since he has no terror radius no ultimate weapon braindead abusing, and in chase stunning with a pallet will greatly prolong the chase( unlike singularity who can be slowed down and immediately tp to surv)
- all numbers are approximate and fixable
- this freddy will become the stronger the more survivors are asleep which kinda makes lore-based sense, bc freddy in films enjoyed not just killing his victims, but their fear of him, so more survivors asleep -> more fear -> more strength
I mean just making every action faster while in his power and basically making pallets useless (enduring is a give with that ability) does not seem like a fun experience as survivor. And I still fail to see how exactly you play skillfully as the killer? There is not really anything killer specific to learn.
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@Paternalpark said:
Glad someone isn't just complaining to get aura on boxes back.
I found her chase near on par with chucky and has built in passive slowdown.
Enjoy :]
I would not go that far, not even close, but it is a lot better now.
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Why only one? But yeah probably skull merchant, for obvious reasons, several reworks and she is still so annoying to go against that probably have the player base immediately gives up. And according to kill rates she is the strongest killer in the game.
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@lukeneves said:
The sheer number of comments here, means this is a killer meta op perk that they know is op and survivors feel it as op.hence will be nerfed - end of story.
Could you please stop ending every single comment with "end of story" or "case closed", that is really contra productive xD
I mean if you ignored one side that argued against it for sure, but on the other hand this is a rather short thread as of right now and others that were long were far more diverse in the different opinions voiced. So it would be rather short sighted to just say "everybody agrees on this" don't you think?
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@_Onyx_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679208#Comment_3679208
I doubt that.
Also, on that line of thinking, Tombstone Piece Myers is the best Killer in the game then. He can kill someone quicker than any other Killer can. It isn't a tangent of the conversation worth exploring.
Even with Blight add-ons that increase his strength, Nurse's basekit will always be the standard of what a truly powerful Killer is in DBD. Her add-ons don't need to be insane because her basekit already is. They've toned her down so much over the years since her release at the start of DBD's life and she has never once fallen from the top spot.
Watch the showcase then and make up your own opinion, Nurse was stronger with no addons and with mediocre addons, however with the strongest addons Blight was stronger than Nurse.
I dont think that is a valid argument, because even as tombstone Myers you can prevent the kill by going into a locker or spam vaulting pallets and what not, against really good survivors getting into meele range to mori someone is hard enough.
In case you want to watch the showcase:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcm0MqWMxKsBased on that point you could argue either way, however since Blight also got his addons nerfed I don't think this is still the case.
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@_Onyx_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679095#Comment_3679095
No, no one has ever been stronger than Nurse in the entire history of DBD. Why do you think Blight is or ever has been?
Because Lights strongest addons pushed him onto another level, there has been a showcase by Otzdarva where you could see that his strongest stuff performed better than Nurse as her addons didn't give her too much.
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@lukeneves said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679107#Comment_3679107
Sure it is. Case closed. Rework, nerf whatever you want to call it means, as is now, it's not healthy - everyone agrees it's too powerful.
I don't think so ^^
Maybe they just came up with a better idea? Does not necessarily mean the current version is bad... You should put in some more work to reason and not just claim stuff.
As for the everyone part... Absolutes are hardly ever accurate, many people also think it is completely fine, as you have seen in this post...
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679140#Comment_3679140
decreased timer for every Gen that pops after the trap activated seems Allright to me. At least that requires survivor misplay to come into account.
There is an addon which does that, but it also increases the timer by 10s, which makes the reduction by 10s/each gen pop not useful.
I know, I like the idea of it though, at least more than just shortening the time without any counterplay.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679135#Comment_3679135
I would love to see, that they bring back the old box system, where one box had the key and if the pig camps the key gets moved into another box and highlighted to the survivor. I also think the timer should be reduced by 10-20s, because the traps aren‘t a threat at all.
Seems a bit too complicated, as you can basically just proxy camp it... To miss a survivor doing the box despite visuals and audio of it seems unrealistic... Therefore I prefer the current system.
I prefer them to be just game delay, but each to their own.
I dont like the base decrease, however decreased timer for every Gen that pops after the trap activated seems Allright to me. At least that requires survivor misplay to come into account.
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@Hicen said:
I demand that Pig be able to see the “Saw boxes” and the trap timer be reduced to 2 minutes, because the developers made her weak since the dash did not improve much and the traps generally killed her.
Would be basically a guaranteed kill on 4th box search every single time...
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@lukeneves said:
Nerf: It's on the roadmap. It should be between April and June. Discussion over, as suspected I was right. It's OP.
Is it clarified as a NERF on the roadmap? As far as I can see it is called "perk update", so not necessarily a buff or a nerf, maybe just a rework. Or do you have a different picture to show?
And just because something gets nerfed, does not necessarily mean it is or was OP, and besides that "discussion over" seriously? Therefore even if it was classified as a nerf on the roadmap does not mean anything about your statement is right.
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@_Onyx_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678632#Comment_3678632
You're arguing it's a wasted slot? When, in the topic of conversation, apparently Ultimate Weapon is OP. Ultimate Weapon being OP would dictate that Calm Spirit is definitely needed to stay competitive. Since it's the only thing that counters it.
Nurse ignores every core element of DBD, of course that makes her the strongest. Blight is a nerfed version of Nurse that has to play the looping game. He has to deal with God pallets just like the rest of the roster. Nurse is the only Killers who doesn't care what tile or loop the Survivor goes to.
Who are you copying that thinks Blight is the best? Or simply, how are you coming to this self-created conclusion?
Arguably before his recent nerf Blight probably was stronger than Nurse, so maybe the guy just didn't get the update yet? (Just because of how busted some of his addons were, his basekit is entirely fine, though which is why I hope they don't change it too much in the upcoming rework/change a few months from now...)
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@lukeneves said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678630#Comment_3678630
You know perfectly well that to stay competitive u just cant equip calm spirit. Blight is the best killer in the game hands down. (Nurse got nerfed get updated)
Blight got recently nerfed as well though? So maybe elaborate further...
And to quote a comp player "you don't need ultimate weapon, you can already know where people are if you use game sense..." so maybe elaborate further on why the bubble up is that oppressive compared to some other stuff.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I was on a break when this DLC came out so still struggling to learn how to counter them.
Other than not dropping pallets much like Huntress/Nemi unless dropping for stun/early and running them to the turrets to put them on cooldown, I feel like the tail is very difficult to avoid.
Any tips would be appreciated as I get wrecked every time I verse them
The tail basically cannot be reaction dodged, so it is mostly about pre dropping and using the turrets... I think Hens made a shorts video or something about it? Otherwise maybe just ask some comp players/streamers what to do.
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@TheResidentEvil said:
Hello all! Though I am but a humble DBD player, I feel that if BHVR maybe took 4 months in between each chapter instead of 3 this would allow them to give more love and thought into the perks, addons, killer tweaks, and map changes to benefit the game in a healthier and more enjoyable way. I adore this game and the community, but I'm worried that the pool of new interesting perk ideas that aren't just *uninspired haste effect* or really niche/situational ones is dwindling. 3 per killer and survivor is a lot! Also, there are many older killers that are in dire need of QOL updates. Some powers are extremely clunky, some killers only have a few addons that are worthwhile running, some killers are very buggy, etc. This latest patch was absolutely a step in the right direction with the pig changes, and the amazing debut of The Unknown, but I'm just worried for the future. Thanks for reading, and let me know your thoughts <3
- Lorenzo
I guess not, just because it is the montarization... But I also don't know if the quality of life team and the guys working on new content are even the same... Might be that those are two groups of people and nothing would change considering the work load for the quality of life dev team?
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@drwilburdaffodil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678651#Comment_3678651
Probably because the same issues it had still exist. It is still hard countered by a predrop and highly telegraphed making it hard countered by just leaving the loop and making distance when the pig crouches/uncrouches. It is an incredibly situational chase power that cannot/should not be used for actual out of stealth "ambushes" and can only work at certain tiles.
I mean he already explained his reasoning, and your explanation would not fit. Sure there are limitations to the power that did not get lifted entirely, but just the ability to dash around longer tiles can already make a big difference, and even if in practise nothing would have changed, in theory the numbers increase did make it stronger.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678422#Comment_3678422
Both nerfs are unnecessary. When playing her the only difference you feel is that you can‘t see the auras. The ambush still has the same counter and isn‘t really stronger than before.
I hope for skill check perks to work on the boxes, box auras back, a smaller terror radius and a faster crouch speed.
For the scream nerf; boxes should simply lose progress over time.
I mean you can argue about much stronger the ambush got, but it did get stronger, how would you even reason otherwise?
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@SAIKURON said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677630#Comment_3677630
Not to be offensive, but your whole point is wrong, just because chess or running against Usain Bolt and DBD aren't the same things. Chess is a game where two players are in fair conditions, 1v1, while DBD, in our case, puts the Killer (Legion, who can't do a thing without their mediocre power that they can't use normally if the survivors don't let them) in an unfair position against a whole team of four.
The was not about whether it is possible, but whether it should be possible... Should you be able to bridge such a huge gap in skill if the game was balanced?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677691#Comment_3677691
I mean that's basically meme's, that doesn't work on good killers. How often did stand still Iron Will work? Nearly never. You currently see this perk like once every few months maybe? If that.
As for more things hurting aura reading compared to gen perks that's a fine point, but what else would we give it then?
And often do you get good killers? The point is though it worked for him quite often in normal matchmaking, so what exactly makes you think it would not work for others as well?
But yes of course it is quite the meme...
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@AshInTheTallGrass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677697#Comment_3677697
BHVR has said language like that in the past when explaining why they made certain choices, so that's why I chose it. I can't remember the exact changes they were describing, but I *think* one of them was when they were explaining why the anti-face camping mechanic disabled at endgame.
I mean fair I guess... But it still sounds odd. Also what else are you supposed to do in endgame? ^^ Unless you have perks for it the doors will be open before you even found another person.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677704#Comment_3677704
Who is still running BBQ when ultimate weapon exists?
I am for example, I didn't buy alien because of the overpriced set with cosmetics I didn't want.
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I find that answer option a bit biased to begin with... But I don't see a problem with this perk whatsoever.
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@felipesegatto1 said:
get good, killers got everything easy and a lot of abusive perks,combos and strategies. this is the only strong thing survivors have
Getting good would imply there is something you can do about this in certain situations, most of the time people run in while you are in weapon wipe animation and just heal up...
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@Blueberry said:
A neat perk that just isn't quite there and doesn't see enough use. How would y'all feel about adding hiding you and the other survivors auras while actively healing as well?
I mean have you seen Scott using it to basically heal right in the killers face and how often it worked? It is actually really interesting that people completely lose track of you like that when you stop making sounds... For that purpose it worked surprisingly well. As for mini distortion I don't know, aura reading is already not too strong compared to Gen regression or Gen block, adding more circumstances under which the perk won't work might just lead to even less usage of those perks.
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@SAIKURON said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676794#Comment_3676794
Are you simply implying that it's completely normal to not have a single chance against a comp surv team? Don't you think that it sounds quite disrespectful towards the killer, who in this situation appears to be wasting their time being a whipping doll for survivors in a game that's supposed to be fun for both sides?
Should you as an ordinary chess player have a reasonable chance to win against a master or grandmaster chess player? Should you have a reasonable chance to outrun Usain bolt? To beat Serral in Starcraft 2?
Come on man there is a huge skill difference between both parties... Should a comp player on legion have a reasonable chance to beat a comp 4 men team? Yeah ofc because both parties are of similar skill.
I dont think it is disrespectful, it is sad because the matchmaking gives the player that opponent, but you should not have the expectation to win against someone that is simply much better than you are. I would even go as far to say if there was a killer that was so strong that you as a normal killer could win against a 4 men comp team then this killer would be beyond busted as it is able to bridge such a huge skill difference.... Wink wink old skull merchant holding team eternal hostage for like an hour ;)
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@Diegou said:
It was to know why the trickster I usually see is hated, and I still don't know why xd
Fairly simple, basically because it often feels like what you as a survivor do does not really matter, when he throws knifes at you there is not really much you can do to avoid that when you are in the open, there no corner dodging like against Huntress or Slinger where you go wide before rounding a corner, because what does it matter if you dodge a single knife? It just feels like the constant throws of knives makes it redundant to try to dodge a single one, because if you get unlucky you get hit with 3 more and if you do nothing only 1...it just makes you feel like not dodging at all is the more successful play, which should never happen... Skill should be rewarded...
So in the open he is already a death sentence... When it comes to looping tiles only high walls safe you because short tiles are once again a death sentence, and because he is a 115 % ms killer now he does not need to rely on the knives alone but can chase you normally, for example because of the tiles or because he ran out of knives. People don't necessarily hate him because he is strong, which he most certainly is or can be (as we saw recently Hens 4 men escape streak got ended at like 171 or so by the best Trickster in the world, something Nurses and Blight could not do), however it is because the gameplay against him is boring and oftentimes makes you feel like your gameplay choice does not really matter, same with Legion, he is not strong but annoying, mending simulator + oftentimes unavoidable deep wound... Sure it is fairly easy to win against him, compared to other killers, but is it a fun experience?
In summon oftentimes it is not about strength but about how pleasant going against a certain killer is... So despite Trickster not being one of the strongest killers in the game, he is certainly one of the least pleasant ones to go against.
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I don't understand why you decided to make this map red, when everything that is red usually indicates for the killer to have a further look at, which gets completely negated on this map, you oftentimes loose scratch marks close up because of the color of the map and seeing scratch marks in the distance is basically impossible, because you never know if it is just the map or actually scratch marks. This needs to be looked and maybe even removed entirely. It is just way too much of a disadvantage for killer.
The loops itself are mostly fine, but sometimes it feels like you have a pallet every 5 m, for me it was fine most of the time, but the rng maybe needs to bet looked at, because when it happened it was way too much and really obvious stuff...
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The visuals of the map are Allright, the Easter eggs are great and I like the concept of a bigger mainbuilding in combination with outdoor elements in comparison to an indoor only map. The slowdown trap you can activate is a great idea and I hope more of these things will get introduced as basekit mechanics, or at least on certain maps.
As for the gameplay, it is a weird one for me, because I could not play the map lag free as killer, but did not have any issues as survivor, I don't know if that got resolved as I didn't get the map lately...
The map is fairly big, the strength of tiles is a bit weird, because basically every pallet aside from jungle gym and the main building main room pallet feel super weak, so maybe make some of the tiles stronger? The middle of the map feels fairly free of decent windows so this could also be a point to investigate further.
I like the idea cliff loops that can only be run in one direction and I hope they get developed further.
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The map is too bright and colorful, the amount of clutter and natural camouflage make it super easy to play stealthy and because of the exorbitant amount if line of sight blockers you oftentimes arrive at a generator where the survivor might be God knows where and you just cannot afford to look for them. So if the survivors decide to play stealthy you just wander around without finding a chase.
It might be easier to win on as survivor but it still is not really pleasant to play on, just because of how hard it is to identify tiles oftentimes, because of the colors everything just overlaps and pallets and windows which are usually easy to spot just become somewhat hidden.
To fix the issues remove the clutter, make it more open, tune down the colors and make tiles a bit easier to identify.
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Very survivor sided, the main building is fairly easily accessible and provides some of the strongest windows in the game that can hardly be outplayed. Arguably one of the if not the strongest main building in the entire game.
And as if that was not already enough the hitboxes of bushes and so on barely match with the visuals, making it so you get stuck on everything.
It is one of those maps you get send to as killer just to make you feel miserable.
To fix this is fairly simple though, get rid of the weird hitboxes and rebalanced the main building.
On a side note I don't know if this is intended or not but the map sometimes spawns a jungle gym without a window, which often results in a lost health state, because why on earth would the window just be missing for no reason? Soooo if this is indeed intended, do you mind explaining why?
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675943#Comment_3675943
This is simply not true. Tatairu(?) has an excellent thread floating around with a bunch of common sense buffs that'd make legion less frustrating to play.
I mean the guy kind of has a point... Legion is a very simple killer, and his power to just run after people and hit with his increased speed will always have the issue of little counterplay, except for stuns and blinds and distance there is not much you can do about it, not really a method to outplay him with your superior skill or looping ability while in his power. And if you buff his power you just decrease what people can do against him while in frenzy... And that is pretty much an issue with the concept of his power... It does not really have much depth, not really things you could change to give Legion a higher skill ceiling or whatever, just because of how simple his power is.