Archol123
Archol123
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@SAIKURON said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676590#Comment_3676590
...You have a point. I had a very outdated/wrong picture of the mmr system, it appears.
But it's rare occasion to find a weakling in a comp survivor team. And when it does happen (once in a blue moon), the stronger ones will literally do anything to protect the weakling from dying (body block, abuse of second chance perks, flashlights, etc.). The Legion cannot do anything in such cases, too. They simply cannot punish survivors enough to be even fearsome or threatening at least to some extent.
Sure you won't have a weak link in a comp team, but why do you think you should be able to win against a comp team? Or even have a reasonable chance, unless you are a comp player yourself? And then even more on such an easy to master killer like legion?
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Why not an abandoned concert place outside? So we can avoid the whole indoor map theme as well as the generic warehouse part? Especially considering Hawkins as well as the Game already have a generic warehouse vibe for most of the map.
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@SAIKURON said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676528#Comment_3676528
The game matchmaking is literally fully based on MMR system. The game awards you with MMR score after each session you participate in, based on the amount of actions performed, chases won/lost and stuff, you get the idea.
The point is that the Legion cannot compete against decent survivor teams, their power is just too flaccid and weak, just as I've said in my post. I wanted to stress on the fact that it becomes even more palpable and notable when you play against good survs, as they can counter you by simply running away.
MMR only applies escapes or deaths in 4 seperate 1v1, always killer vs each seperate survivor... You could hide in a corner for the entire map and do nothing, but if all gens get finished and you escape this counts as a win... So none of those actions you mentioned have impact on this, the amount of mmr apparently gets influenced a bit more by some things, for you to lose less if you help a teammate escape or something, but it does not get turned into a win. When I said mmr basically does not exist I meant that the soft cap is so easy to reach that a wide range of players can match each other, which leads to mmr basically not working in the sense of putting equally skilled players together.
Yeah sure, for example against comp players Legion cant do anything, however what I said before still applies, you barely get 4 really good survivors against which you cannot do anything, usually there will be a weak link that you can go for and ein the match off of that. Legion is in a good enough spot for that. It's just that the whole concept the killer revolves around cannot be made too strong, just because of how simple he is to play, there is not really much depth to legion... The only thing I can think of that you maybe won't learn in the first 10 min of playing him is the legion tech, but other than that the killer is as simple as it gets, there is really not much of a killer specific skill cap. (I phrased it that way to explicitly exclude m1 killer gameplay, as you will almost exclusively get your downs by doing that, because unless the survivors majorly mess up you won't get 5 hits in frenzy.)
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@SAIKURON said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676069#Comment_3676069
Nuh-uh they're simply not.
Thana? Does anyone use Thana these days? The perk got nerfed into oblivion.
Dying Light might prove useful, but I just can't agree with your whole point.
You cannot just run a build dedicated fully to slowing down the game, survivors will simply gen rush nevertheless (if they're decent survivors) while you chase somebody without any power or ability in a chase except m1 attack when you're out of your power. This simply cannot be "great".
You can use Spirit Fury and Enduring with Iridescent Button, but at times even this combination isn't enough. I mean, just play Legion on high MMR and you'll surely get why I made this post.
High MMR is never an argument, simply because it basically does not exist... Matchmaking is still to inconsistent to talk about high mmr.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676068#Comment_3676068
But that was more than a year ago. And also before I started playing, so I only have the current state of Legion to go by. Besides, who in their right mind doesn't want to see their main get some buffs?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676116#Comment_3676116
I was just about to post your suggestions thread here but you beat me to it!
It is a weird statement to say just because it is your main killer it should get buffed? That's just very biased. When talking about balance you should always take both sides into account.
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@SAIKURON said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675943#Comment_3675943
Well, they used to be strong back in the day, when they could actually hit one survivor multiple times in order to down them. Maybe the devs could bring it back, but do something so that it doesn't become too frustrating for survivors. They can make it so that Legion does not immediately exit their power when they hit a survivor with a deep wound, or whatever. There is always a way, the devs are just couch potatoes in this regard.
Nah dude, that was a horrible time... Nothing of this should return.
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The issue of the map is that it's balance gets decided by how the killer plays. If he decides to hold the 3gen in the outskirts it Is usually really killer sided, however with the introduction of the anti 3 Gen mechanic this may not be the case anymore. On the other hand if survivors take the chase to the main building you just lose, the structure is way to strong, a normal m1 killer will take minutes to get a hit and the Gen up there offers so much time to pre run that you should never get hit like this unless the killer has a good chase power.
So to counter this problem tune down the main building, add some more windows in the outskirts so the map does not dry out that easily over there, maybe tune down the town loops, in case it is too strong otherwise.
And please for the love of God make it so people cannot just sit in one of the many bushes and just turn invisible, it is just so dumb. You just don't have the time to check each and every bush, it is tedious it is annoying and just boring. I know stealth is part of the game, but it should at least need some form of skill... The bushes are just too easy to hide in and too many... Sometimes you get stuck and don't even think of it as a survivor but just bad collision.
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This map is ridiculous not only does it spawn upwards of like 25 pallets, also 17+ of them are safe or God pallets... Sure the map does not really have windows, but the game is basically over when you have to kick that many pallets. Most loops on the map are not playable for the majority of killers, some can do just fine, and for once I would say that not stealth killers have that much of an advantage on this map, just because there is a safe pallet every 5 m. This leads to ridiculous outcomes like having safe pallets like 5 m apart of each other, making it so easy to switch two loops back and forth.
There is just no skill expression for either side. The survivor just runs to the closest pallet, maybe runs around it once or twice and then drops it, and most of the time as killer you should not try to outplay it, but just kick it, as the pallet is so safe the survivor would need to majorly mess up.
I will never understand why people enjoy this map... It is probably the worst map in the game just because of this major design flaw.
Now to the few positive things, it's upstairs is fairly wide open for an indoor map, which is a good thing as you can spot people and use crows and scratch marks from afar. There are fairly many stairs and other ways to go down, leading to much less frustration than on other maps, as you don't have to walk too much to get down or up, at least most of the time, it's not perfect but better than other maps.
As for how to fix it:
- add more windows
- change all loops (there so no reason to have so many super strong pallets that are only meant to be kicked)
- remove some pallets, 25 is just way too many...
And on a side note this map has a great opportunity to add dynamic map design, like give the survivor a side thing to and let them pull a lever for 20 seconds to open or close the big doors, same for killer but quicker, could be super fun if you were able to influence that as both sides, making loops stronger (by not leading into a dead end) or even locking the killer out.
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The portal room basically has an infinite window, has you cannot start chase through the glass wall it makes it so if you don't run while in Los the killer cannot start chase, making this window a literal infinite if the survivor knows what he is doing, sure a lot of killers can play around it but not all of them.
The layout suffers from similar issues as Lerys in the sense of doors being open or close and therefore not that many direct ways to enter a room, but also the part about collision issues and rendering killer powers way weaker, because of clutter and small entrances ro rooms.
Once again cutting people off or tracking from afar are hard to pull off because you oftentimes cannot see further than you can throw. Resulting in the inability to use crows or far away scratchmarks for tracking.
The map enables quite the boring playstyle for killer in the sense of most pallets being so weak that it is easier to get an m1 than to use your power... Also the total amount of pallets on this map is just ridiculous, as it can spawn up to 30 or so...
The map is a little less bad for stealth killers but I still don't find it enjoyable for either side.
As survivor hiding is once again super easy, same as on every indoor map...
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@Archol123 said:
As we can see from it's high kill rate the map is generally rather killer sided, which is somewhat fair considering that most loops are not really good and the gates also spawning close together.
However from its basic design it is just the nr. 1 hold w map, if you spot the killer on the other side of the corridor just run, he will take the whole game to make it close enough to hit you, this map just favors the most boring playstyle there is... Because the loops itself don't offer too much. Some even bigger rooms just have nothing to work with, others have the worst pallets you have seen in a while, you cannot even blame survivors for pre running as many rooms are just guaranteed death unless the killer messes up severely.
Then the map also has the issue of accessibility, you may know a survivor is upstairs on the Gen as you can hear it, but it will take you forever to get there... The same goes for ways downstairs.
As survivor it is also annoying as you may the heartbeat but you not only don't know from which direction the killer is coming, you don't even know if he might be downstairs or not. So either you go outside the room to check both sides of the corridor, or you may be just up for a hit because he is closer than you thought, which is also not a great experience.
However then again, as with every indoor map we have the issue of tracking, if survivors decide to hide when you are nearing good luck, many good hiding spots, basically no way to see inside rooms, only the corridor.
The easiest way to fix some of the issues would be to open the corridors up towards the classrooms by either creating a window front, so you can look inside or create more opening to enter.
I dont enjoy this map for both sides, as killer I can oftentimes not find people, my go to tracking perk BBQ does never give value bc of the small size and as survivor it is just annoying to navigate and find things...
The list of issues this map has is just immense. The most obvious to fix would be more open spaces, less clutter inside some of the rooms, some stronger loops, maybe different gate spawns?
Short addition for my first post, for some reason hook spawns can be really messed up on the map, sometimes you cannot hook people as the hook gets blocked by weird clutter. Then there is only 1 hook in reach and if it gets saboed there is no where else to go to, so maybe check on the hook spawns on this map as well.
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As many already said the map is too bright. I generally like the sand theme and often feel reminded of an Egyptian pyramid setting, would actually appreciate a map with pyramid or tomb setting, but please no claustrophobic indoor map... But alas I digress...
The main issues of the map are the sheer amount of really safe loops. The middle section of the map offers so many strong loops, if a survivor knows what he is doing he will keep you there the whole game long. Some of them are even interconnectable. The rework lessened some it's problems but it is still not enough.
Aside from maybe 2-3 pallets (behind main building, the coffin loop on the right side of main) I don't think the map has really weak or even balanced loops, most of them are just really good loops with one really safe side. Maybe mix them up and create more balanced/weak loops and less of the super strong ones in the middle?
Now to stuff that is just frustrating, the collision on some of the rocks or tree branches is just ridiculous, your chainsaw bumps into them, your m1 lunge bumps into them, but you can freely move through them??? How is that even a thing??
The collision really needs some adjustment.
So in summon:
- balance out some of the loops and overall strength of the setup the map provides
- fix collision of tree branches and rocks
- maybe make the lighting a bit darker?
For the last point... Besides the coldwind maps most maps are really dark oftentimes even too dark, but this one is on the opposite side of the spectrum, so bright it almost hurts the eyes...
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As we can see from it's high kill rate the map is generally rather killer sided, which is somewhat fair considering that most loops are not really good and the gates also spawning close together.
However from its basic design it is just the nr. 1 hold w map, if you spot the killer on the other side of the corridor just run, he will take the whole game to make it close enough to hit you, this map just favors the most boring playstyle there is... Because the loops itself don't offer too much. Some even bigger rooms just have nothing to work with, others have the worst pallets you have seen in a while, you cannot even blame survivors for pre running as many rooms are just guaranteed death unless the killer messes up severely.
Then the map also has the issue of accessibility, you may know a survivor is upstairs on the Gen as you can hear it, but it will take you forever to get there... The same goes for ways downstairs.
As survivor it is also annoying as you may the heartbeat but you not only don't know from which direction the killer is coming, you don't even know if he might be downstairs or not. So either you go outside the room to check both sides of the corridor, or you may be just up for a hit because he is closer than you thought, which is also not a great experience.
However then again, as with every indoor map we have the issue of tracking, if survivors decide to hide when you are nearing good luck, many good hiding spots, basically no way to see inside rooms, only the corridor.
The easiest way to fix some of the issues would be to open the corridors up towards the classrooms by either creating a window front, so you can look inside or create more opening to enter.
I dont enjoy this map for both sides, as killer I can oftentimes not find people, my go to tracking perk BBQ does never give value bc of the small size and as survivor it is just annoying to navigate and find things...
The list of issues this map has is just immense. The most obvious to fix would be more open spaces, less clutter inside some of the rooms, some stronger loops, maybe different gate spawns?
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Just plays horribly for many killers because of the narrow corridors, cutting people off is rough because they have many different ways to go, therefore enabling more hold w gameplay. Especially the stairs in the main hall are ridiculous for that...
As survivor you can hide fairly easily, whereas as killer your tracking is limited, because you don't see scratch marks in the distance and crows are rarely use full either.
If the survivors play somewhat stealthy it favors them quite alot, as they could be God knows where when you finally arrive.
The map also feels frustrating because of its layout, oftentimes you know exactly where someone is because you hear the Gen above, but you will take another 20-30 seconds to get there...
I dont like the map for either side, as it does not offer fun or interactive gameplay, no cutting people off, no tricking the killer with your patching, as he will straight follow anyway, because everything else is way too risky...
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Just plays horribly for many killers because of the narrow corridors, cutting people off is rough because they have many different ways to go, therefore enabling more hold w gameplay. Especially the stairs in the main hall are ridiculous for that...
As survivor you can hide fairly easily, whereas as killer your tracking is limited, because you don't see scratch marks in the distance and crows are rarely use full either.
If the survivors play somewhat stealthy it favors them quite alot, as they could be God knows where when you finally arrive.
The map also feels frustrating because of its layout, oftentimes you know exactly where someone is because you hear the Gen above, but you will take another 20-30 seconds to get there...
I dont like the map for either side, as it does not offer fun or interactive gameplay, no cutting people off, no tricking the killer with your patching, as he will straight follow anyway, because everything else is way too risky...
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I like the changes, forcing head pops has always been a really unfun strategy and I preferred to use the antiloop power anyway. In Combination with the ambush addons her dash is actually really useful now. I will probably pick her up again, now that the ambush is actually usable.
The changes to her crouch speed and movementspeed are also great, even though they could have gone further with them.
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@jonifire said:
I think the changes are nice, but nothing big. The box aura removal will make her lose a lot of free kills.
But losing free kills is a good thing, you should not be able to get free kills.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674265#Comment_3674265
Just remove the aura shown from killers then, and "defending last totem" isn't in any way easy at all for pretty much all killer roster, if it's viable anyone is doing that now, which isn't the case at all.
It's hardly any stronger than just adding yet another regression perks, so yeah not a problem.
I mean there have been several decent strategies around that, involving demos portals and the purple addon for example... But sure, it is not a commonly used strategy.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674256#Comment_3674256
Except you don't even know what totem survivors are at, results in "trying to interrupt" mostly waste of time.
30% additional gen time still isn't a big deal especially when it doesn't happen that early, ruin in a 3 gen can't really stop even 3 survivors with current weak effect, even 120 second is decent if you consider you can very well get maximum pop value of 8 times if you don't tunnel, "forcing people away from gen" actually is a issue than a reward because it just makes finding survivors harder for a killer.
And how many times I have to mention NOED or pentimento just doesn't work with this change anyway?
Trying to force them off with a limited amount of totems left... That should be fairly easy to get without me explicitly mentioning it... If there are only 1 or 2 totems left they should be rather easy to defend.
I think it is quite a big deal especially in addition to other slowdown perks.
Pentimento could be fairly easy to keep... Just make it so the effects are turned around, it starts basically maxed out but the more totems are cleansed the weaker it gets... Therefore we can still take its effects into account for this.
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They should just make it so Invocations have several shorter rituals instead of one big one, therefore not leaving you behind vulnerable in the basement... You could even make it so you need to go the basement twice for the ritual to finish. Make it even take a bit longer but remove the broken status effect.
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Get reported if you lead the killer to me for griefing.
Otherwise you get reported for not doing anything for being afk, as the invocation does not get shown, and then you get interrupted by the killer and cannot finish it before you die... This is just a lose lose situation and I would prefer the option with the griefer.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674247#Comment_3674247
The only real "cleanse it or lose" perk is devour, dealing with anything else isn't THAT bad.
I said CAN but not ALWAYS, doesn't change the fact 70 seconds across ALL survivors are like 18 seconds of each survivor, which really isn't that big from a perk slot.
Or Noed.. Or ruin in a 3 Gen... Or pentimento, unless you want 30% additional Gen time... But yes devour is the most obvious of them.
In addition to the time it takes to go there, overall it is more like 2 minutes instead of 70 seconds only... Which is quite good... It would be a top perk for sure. Especially as it is outside of Gen regression and forces people away from the main objective. And that only if you don't get interrupted, which the killer will probably try to do, specially with devour...
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Trappers core design will always be annoying for survivors because if you walk into a trap in chase you just go down, and as his main thing is to make them not visible it feels unfair almost every time. On the other hand playing against people who play correctly and constantly disarm your traps makes you feel like man with machete...
I would just make it so traps have more camouflage, maybe even somewhat sink in in the ground, not entirely, but some part, therefore not being as reliant on grass... Hopefully giving survivors a change to spot them outside of grass but at the same time making it not overly easy to see them like a neon sign as currently on some maps.
Then make it so he can grab traps out of lockers, because I think having all at once gives issues that Otzdarva explained in all detail...
Give him also the ability to remove a trap from a distance, so it does not happen that a trap you wished to keep gets removed if you get new ones out of a locker.
If this is not enough maybe give him a secondary trap ability that applies on pallets, windows or generators, something you can spot if you pay attention, maybe it enables him to know there is someone? Or it needs to be disabled first before the thing can be used or worked on? I'm not sure about the effect but different kind of traps would be great.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674235#Comment_3674235
You are misunderstanding for sure, the idea is survivors can see ALL TOTEMS at all times when hex exists, and hex have it's effect as long as any of the totems exist.
70 seconds across all survivors for a perk really isn't a problem at all, pop can regress for like 100+ seconds with just 3 hooks, pain res 90 seconds, surge can also cause 80+ regression with 2 gens in range and four down, grim embrace is really ridiculous too.
The biggest problem with undying was finding totems (as a new player), with auras there isn't a single problem like that, there was never been a time "too time consuming to clean all totem", it was always just "too time consuming to find all totem".
Not to mention the fact they can always choose to ignore totems altogether.
Well then it is less bad however the time to walk there in addition to the time it takes to cleanse and walk back is still massive.
Not with 3 hooks at least, I'm not entirely sure but I heard that the base 5 % is not applied when kicking it with pop? So it is a little bit less than 90% max with 3 kicks. However you will rarely get value out of every kick and similarly rarely will you get to kick a Gen that is 99% finished... I would say on average you get like 15-20% on a kick so you still need to kick like 5-6 gens, and oftentimes kicking is not worth it because you should rather chase, or only a thing on high mobility killers that can easily continue to chase after they kicked.
Surge barely hits more than 1 Gen on most maps and many survivors just run you into barren land with no Gen around so you will barely have a match where every single down with surge gets value, I love the perk, but it is just not as good compared to pain rez or other options.
It is a mix of both, it takes too long to find them and cleanse them and go back to work. And even experienced players don't know all totems spawns so I would not say it only applied to new players.
Ignoring certain hex perks is rough... But sure you always have a choice, does not really mean it is a good choice or a good thing at all... You can also decide not to cleanse devour hope, which will most likely result In a loss but you can do so..
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674186#Comment_3674186
"Immense" but that's just 1.8ish seconds of generator time "even if every totems takes 28 seconds(which doesn't happen because thrill of the hunt effect is weaker the less totems there are)", much weaker than grim embrace and can easily be weaker than pop too.
And "you can't find the last totem" doesn't matter at all because it's auras are always shown anyway.
And this idea is more of a idea for reducing the RNG nature of totems while killing the noobstomping aspect of it, "dull totem" doesn't exist with this change, I suppose NOED must be kept as is because it's fundamentally different perks than all other.
I've played with four hex perks fair amount of times and honestly "breaking 5 totems" is pretty much nonexistent issue even for one slot, if everyone knows where totems are and all four survivors work for it, it only takes like 60 seconds of match time at an absolute max.
I thought it was more about you seeing that a hex is in play from the start and not seeing exactly where the totem is?
A totem takes 14 or so seconds right? So like 70 seconds + the time to walk to each of them, that is quite a lot... Think about pain rez in comparison which removes a max of 90 seconds + additional regression if nobody stops it... And people are mostly agreeing that pain rez is the strongest gen regression perk.
Did you not play when they first introduced undying? It barely happened that people cleansed all 5 totems (as they simply could not find all of them) and in comp people powered through ruin, as it was too time consuming to clean all the totems...
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674206#Comment_3674206
You know, the difference between normal regression and perk regression becomes much much larger with regression limit.
SA is superior anatomy, it can REALLY help with 4.6 killers, not much for 4.4s.
Enduring Spirit fury is more of a meme build and literally countered by just predropping, ultimate weapons are recon perks which is generally good all the time but only need one, bamboozle has been decent but basically worse SA.
The truth is, literally no one want longer gen time, or "side objective" that just contribute for longer match, it's not even about loss, it just feels bad for them, basekit corrupt doesn't even fix a problem because it doesn't change the fact a killer can only pressure a survivor at most.
Usually kicking a generator just is not the play as it wastes too much time, the increase to the regression of the kick already somewhat made it more viable. But of course some perks offer much larger regression, however from the top of my head only pop and pain rez have that much more regression in one hit... Surge has 8% and eruption has 10% the difference between those and the 5% base is not that much (yes I know eruption also gets the 5% from the kick, but you know what I mean...).
I think superior anatomy and bamboozle don't differ that much in strength, but from my understanding bamboozle is more commonly used on killers like Bubba or Billy whereas I don't see superior anatomy that often.
I would not call it a meme combo, considering pre dropping is not too good against every killer. However Enduring by itself is quite a decent perk. The point stays that there are decent perks that just get overshadowed by how good regression is.
I would not say no one... Side objectives and such stuff is great and the game time is not the issue... The issue is that doing gens is boring, and nobody wants to do boring stuff longer, if you make side or main objectives more fun then I don't think anybody cares if it is 5 or 10 min... As long as it is fun.
Sure you can only pressure one person, but it still fixes the issue of survivors jumping on a generator as soon as the match starts. With corrupt they need to walk a bit first to find a generator. Ideally 3 survivors start doing a generator at the same time as the killer enters chase with a survivor.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674193#Comment_3674193
Then they really shouldn't have done regress limitation? that only stopped people from kicking gens without perks and forced people to use perks instead.
And on top of that, it's not like anything beside coup and SA is that good as of now, they somehow even nerfed STBFL which never been a problem.
Regression perks are also affected by the regression limit? It is basically limited to regression actions.
But sure it does kind of open a gap for the Gen block perks like DMS and Grim Embrace.
What is Sa? There are too many perks to know immediately.
Enduring, Spirit Fury, Ultimate Weapon, Bamboozle and so on are still decent perks. It is not like they are all trash, it is just that regression is currently so much better...
The deeper issue should be fixed and not Band aid fixed with perks... Games are too short and everybody runs regression perks? Make games longer and nerf regression perks into the ground... Or more concrete... Why does everybody run corrupt intervention? Because people spawn directly on top of gens and if you don't they will get 20-30 % of the gen done until the killer even finds someone... More basic game features and less band aid fixes via perks should be the go to way.
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@fulltonon said:
So you are saying regression perks that literally needs SKILL and INTERACTION is unhealthy for the game?
What's healthy then? a perk that only needs to kick a gen that keeps game stale for 120 minutes?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674131#Comment_3674131
If that's the case, then It means you won't match 4 regression tryhard killers every match.
Pick one side and don't cherrypick the fact.
Dude the whole concept of basically needing regression perks at all because the game does not last long enough otherwise is unhealthy. The meta will always limit itself to such perks if this is the way it goes... Besides that I find it kind of funny that it is now 4 regression perks again... When Ultimate Weapon was new everybody complained about, and now we are just back to 4 regression perks.
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If then for both sides, would be ridiculous buff if only one side got it.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674162#Comment_3674162
So just rework pentimento as that's the only ONE problematic perk, and most "serious" survivors are always checking for lit hex totems even for now as searching after 3 hooks generally results in much worse outcome.
At least any dumb solo ques can ACTUALLY cleanse devour hope unlike right now, so it seems to be actually better for them.
This would be one of the strongest slowdown perks to have, because it takes an immense amount of time to not only find all 5 totems, but also to get rid of them. And sometimes you just don't find the last totem because it is in the most god forsaken corner of the map, therefore almost making sure to be unable to get rid of it.
It would result in the comeback of the ruin undying meta but worse, because it takes you only one perk and you have to break 5 totems always. Besides that some hex perks would need reworks, for example haunted grounds or pentimento. And noted as well... Cleanse 5 totems while noed is active sounds rough, currently you can hook on top of noed if you are lucky, but if there are 5 lit totems you can basically always hook on noed unless the survivors cleanse all 5 totems, which results in time loss of like 2 minutes or more...
I do like the idea though to give survivors an incentive to cleanse dull totems, just this way is not it.
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The Huntress changes are nice, give it some time to see how it works out, and if needed make the addons on windup and max hatchets weaker, but the basekit buff itself should stay and is a nice addition.
Pig changes are great, the dash became far better. Her crouch speed could still be higher, somewhere between 4.0 and 4.4 would be completely Allright.
Clown changes are nice to have. Pinky finger was an annoying addon to go against and it is definitely not as bad as before to go against, I would still say it should get a new function entirely.
Changes on Blight, Demogorgon, Hag and Doctor are Allright.
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@Gabe_Soma said:
Revert the other two Huntress buffs, none asked for them and they are not warranted. Try to add more lockers in the map instead.
Scrap and rework entirely the Clown's Pinkie Finger add-on, it's more than useless now.
Blight keep getting buffs?
The Doctor can literally spam his M2 preventing survivors to unhook now even more easily. I'm ok with the buffs but, what about this?
The part about doctors unhook is just not true, the shock delay barely got changed when running both addons...
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3674103#Comment_3674103
I don't mind the increased wind up time, at some maps she wasn't really fun to play as due to walls being everywhere, but the increased hatchet amount is kind of absurd, giving her one of her best add-on base-kit is like if Blight got one of his movement speed add-ons base-kit, instead of dodging 5 to 8 hatchets, which I deem as quite possible for the former and a bit harder for the latter, but dodging 10 hatchets might as well not be a thing, even bad Huntresses will hit one of those at some point.
Perhaps, we will see about that. I don't think it is much of an issue though, 7 is still a reasonable amount and bad huntresses usually run windup anyway, as they are going to miss the hatchets anyway no matter how many they have and only go for the animation lock hits and what not. Good Huntresses though become a lot more scary now by basically being able to down everyone if the team messes up, which to be fair is an OK outcome... If the killer plays good and you don't he should be able to capitalize off of that. But like I said we will need to see how it works out, otherwise 6 hatchets is also Allright.
On a side note I found it quite interesting how everyone on the forums freaked out and then when checking in with some smaller Huntress or killer variety streamers they were mostly like "Huntress is dogwater against good players, the changes are Allright, Hatchet holding speed is a bit much though". Which I found a fair summary. Have to admit though I first thought they were going to leave the max amount of hatchets the same and tune her addon down and give the other one some other function, but I guess this is fine as well. Another option would be to not make those addons for max hatchets stack.
I mean sure it is probably a band aid fix for bad locker placements, but at least this one is a simple numbers change until they are able to improve the locker situation for all of the killers. In the sense of if the ship is sinking at least take a bucket and remove the water if you cannot fix the hole quite yet... Not perfect but better than nothing.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Not a single soul has every asked for Huntress to be buffed. I have zero clue why BHVR even pushed her changes to the live-server.
Why not? The changes that got through are Allright though? Even if nobody asks for a change, if they are Allright why not release them to live... Hatching holding speed got removed and the rest that was deemed OK got through. I don't really see an issue with that?
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Do gens even continue to regress while being blocked? I thought it only happened shortly, was considered a bug and then changed again?
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I think it is a good thing that the devs try to put in more smaller changes in the PTB, just to try it out, that in itself is completely Allright. And while "nobody", or at least no loud majority of the community asked for the changes, aside from the holding hatchet movement speed, her other changes were generally accepted. So despite not being asked for apparently, the changes that were made for live are still not bad.
They could even go for more changes, in the sense of changes on more killers, but I guess you will reach a point where there are too many to test them all out in the PTB time.
As for the locker or more hatchets argument... I guess sometimes the most straight forward answer is not as easy to implement as it seems? But for the first month or so we should give them the benefit of the doubt and just have a look at how the changes will play out. And if the changes are bad they are not set in stone but can be changed again.
Same for the map feedback.. They finally start listening to the community.
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@SolidRazo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672638#Comment_3672638
Even then it’s still a counterplay option. Just cause it’s “out of your control” doesn’t dismiss that’s it could save you. I’d go as far as to a lengthened stun duration to make landing them rewarding. Obviously it’s just speculation for a potential counter to nurse but dismissing it purely because it could go bad is dumb when it could also be good.
It is not about it possibly going bad it is about introducing a game mechanic that will rarely ever be useful/work... So why not come up with something else that might work more reliably... Just think about how often you will get a stun on demogorgon shredding or Billy in overdrive. It just works so rarely, and then putting in all this work and effort for barely any effect just seems like a waste of time.
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@SolidRazo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672520#Comment_3672520
I mean I can understand the inconsistency of it but I think from a gameplay perspective it wouldn’t really be a bad thing even if it would be difficult to do, it would still be a option for counterplay for a killer who really lacks any significant counterplay options for how powerful they are.
It is not about difficult to do or not, it is more about being out of your control mostly... It would probably be such a bait play because you will miss it in 99% of cases, and just give the nurse an even easier hit.
I mean the nurse counterplay stuff has been discussed a lot and I am still of the opinion, that there are quite a lot of things you can do against her, as for example Hens presented in his guide how to go against Nurse... Otherwise you might want to ask some comp players that also stream what to do against Nurse, as they manage to outplay most Nurses, even those in comp to some degree...
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It is alright, since its size get changed, but suffers the same issues as temple with hitboxes and textures not matching, therefore getting you stuck on nothing. Also the amount of clutter is too much.
However the main building has some issues, the strong window it spawns is just super busted and I have no clue how it still exists after so long, you can basically infinite it, if you just shift tech while in sight.
With those things fixed it should be alright.
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Since the size got changed I think it is in an OK spot, I just think that some textures don't really match with their hitboxes, so some stuff just gets you stuck despite there not being anything close by. Also the amount of clutter could be toned down a bit, does not really serve a purpose despite getting stuck...
But other than that the map is in a good spot I think.
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This map is absolutely horrid. Sometimes it just spawns windows line up in a way that makes it impossible to ever get a hit, and because of the constant line of sight blockers you regularly lose chase.
It might be a Paradise for stealth killers, but half the killers powers don't work because the doorways are too small for the high mobility killers, so they get stuck, range killers have an issue because of all the high walls, that block line of sight to ever get a clear shot from more than 5 m away. Then there are some weird hitboxes you get stuck on despite there not being anything sight.
It is also a Paradise for stealthy survivors, because it is so easy to hide and nearly impossible to find a stealthy survivor on this map. Then we also have issues with tracking, because crows and scratch marks in the distance basically do nothing because you can barely see further than you can throw.
No matter which side I play on I just never find this map fun, not even as a stealth killer, because I don't need to plan out how to approach as there are high walls everywhere and often angles from which you simply cannot be seen... Getting gen grabbed with almost no chance of noticing the approaching killer is always annoying.
The entrances to rooms need to be more consistent as well, sometimes you need to run around an entire room to find the entrance, just because of unlucky spawn logic.
Basically the map would need bigger rooms to combat the narrow corridor issue for certain abilities, some was of combating excessive stealth, no clue how to do that without making this an outdoor map. Then it needs a look at window spawn locations as it is ridiculous to spawn two windows 3 m apart of each other.
Then there is apparently the double basement spawn currently? No clue if that is on purpose.
And if both exits spawn on the same side that can also be somewhat problematic.
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@smappdooda said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672466#Comment_3672466
Because better gameplay should sometimes trump "lore"? Also, at this point, so much theming plot holes exist why not add one more.
It is not really about the lore but about how her power functions... It is a teleport that goes through walls, makes no sense for it to stop just because wood changed position, because she can still go through other material... I would be more in favor of a change to how stunning nurse works instead of this.
The issue with this is also that Nurse moves too fast to be able to be stunned reliably... She moves at 13. 33 m/s, how exactly are you going to time that? And that is not even taking into account lag, high ping, desync and what not... I don't really think it would have much of an effect, and at that point we might as well figure out something else.
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@smappdooda said:
It would be REALLY nice if you could stun a Nurse with a pallet mid-blink (as the white trail passes through the pallet). It would give some counterplay to the killer but also require some skill and timing and also allow you to actually use the assets you're given.
Right now with her ability to short blink 2 feet, it makes pallets useless. It would also be very satisfying for survivors and require a biiiiit more forethought on the Nurse's side.
Just a thought.
From a thematic standpoint it does not really make sense, because she can teleport through walls, why would dropping a pallet interact differently?
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@Yoshirama said:
The amount of time killer's bring us there just to explot the double basement bug.
Please, killswitch this map
How can you abuse having 2 basements? I mean you cannot camp both of them? So do you just have easier access to a basement hook and that's it?
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The map is rather big, the main buildings varies in strength depending on which window is open, it has a really high visibility and you can basically see across the entire map on some spots. However overall I think it is alright.
The Azarovs and McMillan maps are overall really not that problematic, those maps are by far the best ones in the game, with some exceptions.
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Too big, main building is too strong, the loops beside that are really Allright. Visibility is Allright, unlike some other Azarovs maps the amount of line of sight blockers I OK I think. Overall I think it favors survivors.
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Generally speaking the map would be alright, however it shape makes it sooooo easy to 3 Gen, you just hold one side of the map and never leave it. And that's it, and since most players do that, because in that case it is really killer favored it is rather unpleasant, without changing the form of the map, and therefore somewhat turning it into Wreckers Yard I don't really see a way to prevent that though... That's basically the only complaint about the map, it s super easy to 3 Gen and everybody does it...
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The map is rather balanced, too few line of sight blockers though, so if you play a killer like Myers or so, you cannot really sneak up on people. But other than that it is fine.
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One of the most balanced maps in the game, sometimes the rng can be a bit too much, but not too often, it is alright. However often it feels like it does not have enough line of sight blockers for a stealth approach, however that is only a minor thing, overall the map is great.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670556#Comment_3670556
That's a weird statement... I don't know how he was at that point though, was that when he still got slowed down when throwing the bottle?
No, it was after his rework which added yellow bottle, removed his pink bottle m/s reduction and reduced his reload by 50%. for around 1 year and half, there was no negatives for pinky finger. you could run 6 bottles, do yellow bottle+pink combination and instant down.
That s horrid tbh, but I guess the same was true for Iri head at some point...
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@anarchy753 said:
Some of devs' comments have been along the lines of "we want to shift focus from the RBTs to the ambush."
Ok, cool, most Pigs I've seen have been asking for that for roughly 6 years at this point. However, despite add-on passes in the past, countless nerfs, and a handful of buffs, Pig's add-ons are still heavily at odds with how her power should function.
By that I mean Pig's RBTs have always been intended as a set-it-and-forget-it stall. If you're spending your whole match following people around to Jigsaw boxes to tunnel them or to try to force their head to explode, you are undeniably wasting the stalling power of that survivor not wanting to do gens right now.
It's time to do a thorough clean up of Pig's add ons, and move most, if not all, of the debuffs on add ons from RBTs to "survivors hit by an ambush attack." This overall will push Pig to be able to benefit more from using her ambush more liberally, and remove a lot of junk add-ons which only serve a purpose when tunneling trapped survivors. You can't seriously tell me that Slow Release Toxin has ANY purpose besides making tunneled targets easier prey.
On top of that, her base kit should have a few tweaks to make her a more fluid killer.
First, the roar from the ambush attack should either be removed, or moved to when she starts the ambush. She already needs to make herself slower than survivors to approach, then stop in place to charge the ambush, and at that point it's not even a reliable attack. Having a honking great "SURVIVORS, I AM PREPARING TO ATTACK YOU, NOW IS THE TIME TO USE YOUR SPRINT BURST" alarm is downright unnecessary.
Second, I think John's Medical File should be removed and her base crouch speed should be 4.00, equal to survivors. Many, more threatening, killers can move at the same speed as survivors while using their skill. Stealth, these days, is more often survivor speed or faster. Pig's slow speed is a relic from the past, and an aspect of her kit intended for using her ambush solely to attack unaware survivors on gens. We have 6 years of knowing that isn't how the game actually works out. Map mobility is too important for a self-slowing M1 killer to work well.
Second, screaming from perks should not cause Jigsaw box searches to be interrupted. Since she has stealth on demand, Face the Darkness and Thrill of the Hunt is a genuinely unfair combination which can lead survivors to an inescapable death to the RBTs. They should be threatening, they should not be easily cheesed to force deaths.
Sounds good, do you have ideas for the addons? I hope it is something more than ten variations of status effects slapped on the ambush. But I fully agree that her current set of addons is too heavily focused on the RBTs... I think the faster animation to put it on and slightly longer search time could stay though, same for the increased number of hats, so like 4-6 addons or so and the rest should be changed. And even those that keep their function could be adjusted.
It reminds me a bit of Demogorgon, his shred is obviously his main power and despite that he has like 4 addons that do something about that and the rest only affect the portals...