AmpersandUnderscore
AmpersandUnderscore
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They have already said twice now that 5 second DS isn't allowed: first when it was nerfed in 6.1 to 3 seconds, then again when they revisited the perk and tried 5 seconds again, then resorted to 4 seconds before it actually went live.
And I'll point out that we had 5 second DS before 6.1, and it was much stronger to boot (worked in end game, no conspicuous actions), and people still tunneled. So no, this isn't the solution.
It's might be part of a solution, but by itself isn't enough. Demonstrably.
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@XboxPlayur said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3992049#Comment_3992049
-2/10 ragebait my friend. Even toxic survivor only players aren’t so disconnected they think these “buffs” are massive for any killer except the ones who are already so trying they don’t need them anyway.
People have been screaming for "incentives for hooking" and "more regression" for years.
Now that they give them to you, it's suddenly "nothing".
This community is Dead by Gaslight.
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@SadakoSlay said:
(This is meant to be a reply to @AmpersandUnderscore but I forgot to press quote before replying)
I know you're being sarcastic so I'm probably wasting my time, but killers will also get the basekit bbq and chili like ability so killer will already be encouraged to leave.
Secondly and more importantly some killers simply wouldn't be able to do anything meaningfull with a stronger gen kick. Gen kicing is already a waste of time in high mmr and low mobility killers literally can't use this ability well. Let's say they see 2 survivors to their left, but the gen with the most progress is on the right. What can low mobility killers do here? nothing. If they go to the gen to use their stronger kick the two survivors probably already got more progress on another gen. Even if they go to the survivors reperaing a gen and kick that gen it is still a huge time waster for low mobility killers, since the survivor will have a lot of distance on them now meaning they can't catch up fast enough and the chase will be much longer. Even worse, let's say the killers sees that none of the revealed survivors are working on gens, what should they do now? Go to the gen with the most progress slowly, thus giving up all pressure or chase the survivors and have another survivor complete that gen. The gen kick is now useless.
Killers are also already encouraged to leave hooked survivors in the live game with the anticamp, so that point is already redundant. Camping literally means the killer will lose.
Yes, they are adding more incentives to leave the hook.
It's doesn't change the fact that killers have spent 9 years finding every excuse to watch someone hang on hook.
You mention that "gens aren't worth kicking" and I agree. Generally, the time it takes to kick isn't worth getting into chase that much faster.
But that's a less than 3 second animation plus some time out of your way even if you're already there. Yet, strangely, people have no issues rationalizing camping a hook for up to 70 seconds and consider that "not time wasted".
So I think, for those people specifically, they absolutely need everything they can get to encourage them to leave the hook. And having it be automatic instead of manual is exactly the wrong direction to make that happen.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991921#Comment_3991921
BHVR already toyed with this idea and it never left concept phase. Considering the most BHVR ever did about gen speeds was add 10 seconds of repair time and 5% damage on kick then started adding more and more gen speed perks to me shows they don't see gen speeds as an actual issue.
I mean, if we go back far enough to consider the old "early game collapse" you mentioned, then gens used to be 65 seconds.
So they've added 25 seconds of gen time over the years. That's not trivial.
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I think the only thing they might need to add at this point is a gigantic neon, flashing sign that says "leave the damn hook and go pressure survivors who are doing gens".
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Interestingly, we've hit the "bargaining" stage.
Denial and anger is still where most of the community still seems to be currently though.
Never thought I'd see people going through the "stages of grief" over hard tunneling, but here we are.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991953#Comment_3991953
Just FYI, hatch escapes and DCs dont count towards escape rates
@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991997#Comment_3991997
Source that hatch doesn't count in thrir stats? I never read that anywhere.
So, small clarification. DC's aren't counted is correct.
Hatch does count as an escape as far as kill rates go.
However, Hatch is basically ignored in MMR and is considered a draw, so your MMR isn't changing if you hatch escape, which is where I think the mix-up comes from.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991707#Comment_3991707
I’m not panicking, I’ll adapt. Just kinda sucks, I was having a ton of fun with Sadako, Wraith (I love good M1 mindgames), and sometimes I even play killers like Hag or the super weak ones. I enjoy the challenge.
But if I’m not allowed to tunnel anymore? Easy answer: Nurse only. And I’ll play harder than ever before
Even if I get something on the side, a little ‘band-aid’ to make it not feel so bad when I’m the big bad tunneler… it’s still gotta be something strong. I want to be able to answer gens popping right in front of my face (into insta down from this surv) , sabo squads, people denying my very first hook with bodyblocks, syringes, whatver.. and wasting my time. Legit, those are good survivor plays, I’ll take it. But as killer I want to be allowed to answer accordingly.
And especially… even with the strongest killers: if I see three survivors in front of me – one showing me clean movement, another trying to drag me into main and flex how sexy main is, and one running completely lost straight into a dead zone – I don’t want to be forced to just ignore that bad player blindly. I’m not gonna accept that. In PvP games, that’s part of it: if you play bad, you die until you learn.
just don’t get it. Instead of survivors being punished for bad plays (super gen-greeding and going down for it instead of playing smart)… insta-unhooks, bad pathing, straight up bad movement in general – all the stuff that makes tunneling and slugging so tempting – it’s the killer who gets punished and told ‘you’re not allowed to
Instead of survivors being punished for bad plays (super gen-greeding and going down for it instead of playing smart)… insta-unhooks, bad pathing, straight up bad movement in general – all the stuff that makes tunneling and slugging so tempting
This is all post hoc rationalization. You're trying to say directly that tunneling is a reaction to working survivors do.
It's not, never has been.
Turning at 5 gens is simpler to execute than it is to counter. That makes it a highly effective "tactic" that either works and the killer wins, or, if the killer is not efficient enough then they will struggle and change everything other than their own gameplay, like you did here.
There is nothing simpler than chasing the first person you see into they die. There no strategy there, no giga brain tactic, and literally nothing to fall back on if it doesn't just work immediately. You can turn your brain off, play as inefficiently as you like, and never learn anything like game sense or game knowledge in the process.
You're literally just following game notifications around while interacting with the furniture while you wait. That's as deep as it gets for some people.
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@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991557#Comment_3991557
I've also been thinking hard on it since the patch notes, and honestly, there is still an issue.
Sure, they can't bodyblock as effectively. But the game's autoaim priorities can make it where they can be right inside or behind the survivor you want to go after. Not necessarily when running, either.
A scenario I think of is the unhooker goes to a corner, and the unhooked stands an inch inside them at that corner. Now, the killer can't really walk into them to hit the unhooker, and the priority on who gets hit will be the closer one. This could also be done while running, but the unhooked has to adjust for their haste and where the other player is running. With enough time and experience, they can adapt to be able to force the killer to hit them regardless.
Not that this will happen all the time, but it's definitely a SWF advantage. This does also assume BHVR doesn't take precautions against this and allow hits to prioritize the unhooker, but I'll hold my breath on that until I see it.I mean, we haven't seen this to test in any way, so most everything is speculation.
I've said every time that people talked about "not having collision" off hook that you need more than that, because of how hits work.
If they listened, or generally would've thought about that, then Elusive needs to also make you basically invisible to hits entirely. You're basically a ghost until the timer or conspicuous action.
In all honestly, I expect it will work this way anyhow, because it's only purpose it's to be "anti body blocking", and taking the protection hit is exactly that. So the elusive survivor should be that ghost for it to fulfill its purpose.
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Someone didn't read what the new Elusive modifier does.
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@drag27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991519#Comment_3991519
didnt concide anything. yea and now killers are going to be punished for doing their objective
I didn't think you understand this mechanic.
Because even if you're tunneling, you still get free BBQ and pop until that survivor dies.
The only time this mechanic comes into play at all is if there are 6 hooks or less total, and the survivor who dies was also the most recently hooked survivor.
So you can literally trade, hook survivors 1, 1, 2, 1, kill someone off, have zero downsides, and get free buffs at the same time.
Just because you can't turn your brain off and follow the first moving thing you see to death without.. strategy... Doesn't mean this is going to have a big impact.
Every single aspect of this mechanic is completely in the killers control.
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@Rapid99 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991114#Comment_3991114
This is being purposefully ignorant to the fact that sometimes tunneling is a literal requirement to be able to win lol. There's a reason they're having to buff multihooking in the same breath as introducing anti-tunnel because multihooking is a literal detriment to do.
If you truly think this is a requirement, you can continue to tunnel to your heart's content. It just means that all the years of talking about "incentivizing spreading hooks" and "buff regression" were just flat out lies the whole time. Now that they've done all of that, you still want to just tunnel away.
Personally, any time I see someone say that "tunneling is necessary" it's because they can't adapt to using any other strategies and have boosted themselves to an MMR that is far above their skill level.
The killer role has largely been "choose your difficulty" for a long time now, it's just that people deliberately choose easy wins (until they hit an MMR where they can't anymore) instead of correctly skill matched games. You kill 60% of the survivors either way, but hard tunneling every game just means you're going to sweat for it.
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@90bubbel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991177#Comment_3991177
do you understand how much 6 rotating hooks is? its incredibly common for 1-2 generators to pop within the first chase-down and hook, and you are now forced to hook atleast 3 people twice before killing anyone if you dont want to get actively punished for doing well no matter how stupid decisions the survivors make.
See, this is where reading comprehension is important.
Nowhere does it state that no survivor can die before hook 6.
You can't death hook the survivor who was just hooked most recently. That's the whole mechanic.
You can literally hook 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, kill someone off and bypass every single downside to this mechanic. You even get free BBQ and pop for doing so.
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@VibranToucan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991228#Comment_3991228
Its not an "early" kill. If Survivors and Killer are both really good, its not rare to only have like 4 or 5 hooks by the time its down to 1 gen. For example, Hens recently made a soloqueue video where played with good randoms and against strong kilers and in most of the games the killer had 5 or less hooks by the time the 4th gen popped.
So, it isn't going to significantly change the outcome of the match. I'll also point out that the OP didn't specify when, but let's look at it anyway:
2+gens remaining kill: "early" enough that it's basically a win. Killer would have to make several massive mistakes to give up more than one escape. This is already the goal of tunneling on live.
1 or 0: late/end game, your going to want the kill already.
The other big thing that people aren't understanding (or deliberately ignoring) is that it's not just an early kill, it also has to be the last survivor who was hooked.
So in basically every case people are freaking out about (pig, Onryo) the killer can just hook someone else, then go collect their free kill without triggering the downsides.
In a "worst case scenario" if Onryo Downs someone with condemn who was also the last person hooked, they can just slug and have 90 seconds to go hook someone else before collecting their free kill.
I really don't see the panic/doom scenario here, even in these niche circumstances. Every aspect of this is within the killers control and choice.
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@StalkingYou said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991056#Comment_3991056
DBD players always have a way to twist situations into being fault of the player
Strong SWF will be completely invincible to any M1 killer after these changes but of course it has to be twisted to sound like that's not the case, instead we are simply removing "crutch tools". Suggesting that there is no other nuance to it is either stupid or just choosing ignorance
Wouldn't it be nice to actually be able to talk about meaningful buffs for those m1 killers? Shame we can't do that until tunneling is addressed though.
Especially since you haven't explained (or can't) how this system is an issue.
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I honestly see no universe where getting an early kill with the killer ability will have any impact. Removing one survivor is still better than having regression, and an early 3v1 is still basically an auto-win.
Maybe I'll be with once we see the changes in action, but I truly think that if people are really worried about triggering the downsides, that this anti tunnel system will do it's job. People will naturally graduate away from hard tunneling early to avoid the penalty.
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@StalkingYou said:
Never tunnel never camp never proxy never slug never play sadako never play cenobite never play pig never play any m1 killer never go against SWF never run gen regression and never kick gens too much
If you simply do all of that then this and other changes will never affect you
You can tunnel all you like in end game, or after hook 6.
Or right away, for that matter. There just might be consequences to that now.
This system is designed to help alleviate the actual problem of "even if you bring an entire build dedicated to it, you still will likely be eliminated from the game immediately if you are found first" meta that is 9+ years old.
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@Coffee2Go said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991105#Comment_3991105
It will most likely be adjusted to existing proc perks such as pain res, grim that require 4 unique hooks, 6 hooks is too much not ideal 4 is more ideal for general population to hit.
And im going to guess that they will most likely add onto it that if players die by their own mistake as in self sabotage unhook attempt aka not hit their checks or be left to die by the team hitting that gen repair bonus for remaining trial.
Depending on the bonus that is of course.
6 hooks is too much 4 is ideal and viable as its always been for many killer perks to proc fully
Well, first is we haven't seen any values yet, and literally no one has tested it. So claiming to know how balanced it is right now is simply conjecture and all I have to counter is conjecture.
But honestly 4 seems far too few. It's pretty trivial to hook trade and get to that many, even while tunneling.
This needs to be impactful enough that killers change their play style, even a little bit. Which is why so many people are terrified they won't be able to adapt right now.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991105#Comment_3991105
But why should the Killer have to go out of their way to accommodate a Survivor’s mistake? And not just a simple mistake at that, but one they’ve made repeatedly throughout the match.
You have to be throwing to get Condemned versus the average Onryō, I just don’t see why they should be given a potential second chance in this situation.
I don’t know, maybe I’m biased because I’m an Onryō player, but these changes do seem like they’ll unfairly affect Pig and Onryō, where an early death is usually the Survivor’s fault.
I don't see any of this as a viable argument, honestly.
If eliminating a player early wasn't worthwhile, we wouldn't be in a situation where tunneling is not just meta, but out of control.
You're creating this hypothetical scenario where survivors are basically brain dead idiots, and you expect that isn't just going to be a free win?
In what world do you have Schrodinger's survivors where one is capable of nothing but errors, yet the other three are so cracked that you're going to have a massively difficult game winning an early 1v3.
You also seem to be missing that this only turns things off if the "idiot" survivor was the last one hooked. So in the "worst case scenario", slug him, hook someone else in 90 seconds and go mori him. This is entirely within the killers control.
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@Adam_Francis_Main said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991062#Comment_3991062
If you believe blind unfiltered numbers then you must think Nurse is the worst killer in the game
Nowhere do I in any way say or simply that.
In fact, the only time I see people talk about this is to try and discredit kill stats because they don't like them.
While I would love to have a more nuanced discussion of why stats may not always be the "whole picture", I only ever get throw away accounts tossing out one liners with no intention of having a meaningful discussion.
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@Arachne said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991031#Comment_3991031
Killers objective are to kill and we already have basekit bt anti-camping mechanics. New anti tunelling mechanics is just a funny way for people to abuse it once they get all the perks. I mean what is the point of buffing it? And why does punishing killer who kills which is THE OBJECTIVE is good? Macro gameplay for survivor (4k) will always be favored for SWF not solo. SWF do not meed more buffs, solo players and new should be more tools that don't demand the whole game to be reworked.
You can still do the objective, which is to kill survivors. You just won't always have the most, maximum efficiency by tunneling one person out immediately.
Every single one of the new effects is 100% in the killers control. The killer completely decides if these come into play. You can't even force anything because of elusive.
The existing tools don't even come into play because of elusive. These don't stack. And the current perks are barely noticeable since tunneling had been meta for over 9 years now.
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@Nazzzak said:
People are making videos on a change that hasn't even hit PTB yet? Cashing in early
People are in a frenzy, time to cash in on that sweet, sweet engagement speculation.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3991042#Comment_3991042
Only thing I would change is that that 90 seconds needs to be killer inflected time in dying state. It should not count if its time that survivor themselves caused like using Plot Twist.
Why? Are you afraid that survivors are going to put themselves in time out for free?
This feels like when plot twist came out and people were terrified that "plot twist + no mither" hard counters corrupt, and yet, after the first couple days where people tried it for memes or content, they realized doing that sucked and it was never seen again.
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We already know this doesn't work because they tested it in 2v8.
It's really not that hard to figure out the cage spawn locations, and killers were already just crossing the map and camping the cage with this exact mechanic already in place.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990981#Comment_3990981
How is it abusing to force the other player to win?
Probably the same mindset that thinks people are losing on purpose to inflate kill rates to get killers nerfed.
As to the repair speed in the post, it would have to be absolutely ludicrous to offset the loss of one players action economy in an actual match. Like, 100% would still not be enough in a 3v1 scenario, and there's no chance they come anywhere close to that with this feature.
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Almost all of these, including the killer buffs, are entirely within the killers control as to if they even come into play.
If you're complaining about all of the anti tunnel effects, then don't tunnel, and elusive guarantees they can't come into play.
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Reading the notes, you'd have to eliminate the "last player hooked" specifically, and before 6 hooks.
So even if this triggers, you can insta down the condemned survivor, hook someone else, then come back and mori to bypass the penalty. This is entirely within the killers control.
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@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990787#Comment_3990787
yes, the survivor now is so worse than that.
when survivor that don't get those Training wheels, they are more smart and crafty.
before free Borrowed Time, At least they know when to give up on rescue, Focus on repairs.
slug is survivors mistake. they don't carry perk don't use medkit, don't Heal teammates, then they say killer slug.
tunnel, if survivor are good, they Absolutely can loop 5 gen by 4 hit.(2 hit down and be hooked, unhook take 1 hit downed be hooked then unhook get final loop.)
and survivor face saving, heal under hook, use DS、DH、Off the Record force killer tunnel.
The anti-tunnel is overkill to the point of being used against killers.
camp, if first survivor not afk, the survivor team can fix all gen then 3-4 escape.
vigil and Sprint Burst can Pull out the pallete from the void. if killer can see 2 Sprint Burst when in chase. the killer is hit by a pallete.
survivor get free perk:
Borrowed Time
Breakdown's Aura
Babysitter's Suppresses
Mettle of Man's hook trade.
Deliverance's anti camp.Bulk Reassurance
Tenacity90s Unbreakable
I'm curious what else I will give to the survivors afterwards?
After giving these to the survivors, the BEHVR was already on the edge of a cliff because there was nothing left to give.
So, this rant seems barely coherent, but I'll try to respond:
if survivor are good, they Absolutely can loop 5 gen by 4 hit
Not in 2025 DbD. Maps are huge dead zones, tiles, pallets, and loops nerfed across the board.
You might've had a point in 2016 with literal infinites, but modern dbd has an average 60 seconds chase time per survivor, for the entire match.
Or, better yet, just post your gameplay of you doing this today. That should make my point for me.
The anti-tunnel is overkill to the point of being used against killers.
There is literally nothing that can be abused in this system. Elusive alone means they can't "force" body blocking.
vigil and Sprint Burst can Pull out the pallete from the void
Are you giving your survivors a 24 second break in the middle of your chases? Spring burst and vigil effects haven't changed in like 6 years (they updated the wording from vigil, but it's literally the same timing).
So, again, let's see some of your gameplay from today. That should answer basically everything pretty quickly. Although I assume you'll have to reinstall the game to do that.
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I'm convinced that only the players who can't adapt or change their play style will struggle. The "one trick ponies" who can't function without overpowered crutch tools.
But since this forum is filled with only "Max MMR" killer gods, I'm sure that won't be a problem in large numbers.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990816#Comment_3990816
What games are you playing where you have time to actually kick a gen?
I don't kick gens. I still play with a mindset similar to what most people had before 6.1 that "gens aren't generally worth kicking" and I'd rather be pressuring a survivor with that time.
And yes, part of that means that I didn't run eruption during that meta either.
I get slowdown from pressuring survivors on the map, and spreading pressure means these changes are a huge buff to my play style. And I play the super overpowered, highly mobile pig.
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@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990816#Comment_3990816
when you say "getting into a locker to avoid BBQ (which was literally meta pre-6.1) is slowdown."
I know that you are not the survivor player that good enough.
Not revealing information to the killer is more important than 10% generator progress.
if you get 3 teammate in voicechat, sometimes you have to Get off the generator and watch the killer movement, report to teammates.
Not revealing information to the killer is more important than 10% generator progress.
Reading comprehension is important. Read again and I agree with this.
I hopped in a locker nearly every hook before 6.1 because of this fact. It doesn't change the fact that my point is, for the killer, that they are getting time off gens with this feature, for free.
BBQ stopped being meta, and aura reading became so diverse it became impossible to predict, so people stopped doing this. But the feature will encourage survivors to do it again.
I'm also going to add that aura reading isn't the only way to find people. Paying attention to surroundings, scratch marks, gen progress, or just generally knowing where you've already been but haven't seen sable yet, are all game sense ways of locating survivors.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990823#Comment_3990823
Try 12-hooking an experienced team in perfect sequence with an M1 killer…
Interesting, since even one minutes consideration would tell you you don't have to 12 hook to avoid this system and purely get buffs.
If you can't adapt your play style, and can't even consider the ramifications of proposed changes, them I'd argue that you shouldn't be going up against "experienced teams" and should be going against people more on your own skill level.
Which is what I suspect will happen for many killers once this system goes live and hard tunneling stops boosting people into MMR brackets where they don't belong.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990642#Comment_3990642
"These tactics" wouldn't have come into play if killers didn't have to use them against knowledgeable survivors to stand a chance at winning. If a team is experienced, you've got about 2 minutes from the start of a match to do something real enough to make a difference or you lose. Rotating hooks in perfect sequence instead of catching/pressuring whomever you find is a great way to lose the match as a killer, especially if you're playing an M1 killer. It's pretty lame to push the weaker killers on the roster to adopt a playstyle that sucks for them so casual survivor players can have more fun.
Unless there are plans to give comically weak killers like Ghostface and Trapper actual improvement passes on their lethality, these changes are a real dick-move.
"These tactics" wouldn't have come into play if killers didn't have to use them
It's been 9 years and "these tactics" are still meta. After 3 straight years of deliberately modifying the game balance on the killer's favor, people are still using them, but it's because they have tried nothing else.
Maybe people can't even imagine playing any other way, which is what your really mean when you say you "have to", despite these changes literally including base kit tools to not only find survivors, but also slow down gens.
Rotating hooks in perfect sequence
You really don't. A minute of actually considering gameplay in this system would tell you that "perfect sequence" isn't even remotely necessary, you just have to not hook the same person twice... And the game literally now indicates who that is.
I promise that you, and nearly everyone else, can figure out "trades" at the hook. Especially since the most common response to not tunneling is usually "but I'm going for the unhooker", and "elusive" solves body blocking completely.
against knowledgeable survivors to stand a chance at winning. If a team is experienced
If you only know how to do one thing, and literally can't adapt to other situations, then why should you be going against "experienced, knowledgeable survivors" at all?
You should be going against survivors who are actually at your skill level. But tunneling is so wildly overpowered that doesn't happen. It's the reason people complain about MMR from a killer perspective: they've used simple, too effective tools like camping and tunneling to boost themselves fast beyond what they can handle as a player and then struggle.
The mark of mastery in just about anything is how well you can adapt to handicaps or restrictions and still perform. Like "running perkless" or "standing afk for 30 seconds at the start of the match" and still going on win streaks or winning consecutive matches in every killer in the roster. (These are actual examples btw, done in game. The only reason everyone isn't doing it is because of skill, and things like camping and tunneling are far, far simpler to execute)
comically weak killers like Ghostface and Trapper actual improvement passes
Good. I'd love to have actual discussions on how to improve individual killers who need help.
Unfortunately those conversations almost always fall flat because when you add "literally any buff ever" on top of camping and tunneling. It just buffs those already overtuned strategies further and effectively kills any conversation about buffs.
Tunneling needs a significant change before any of that can happen, and they're at least willing to test that change soon.
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They still have to recover, which is a 32 second action, and still bleed our at 4 minutes.
So the first time is 90 seconds, then another 32 after that, up to 4 minutes tops.
But honestly, what is the killer doing that leaving someone slugged for 90 seconds is the answer besides intentionally slugging?
Killer is supposedly all about "being efficient with your time", so if you're taking the entire length of a gen to close out a second chase, then you're really, really doing something wrong on your end. Especially since the average, total match chase time is about 60 seconds per survivor.
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The existing responses to tunneling and camping are anything but "solutions", they're "casual recommendations to the killer to, please, kindly consider not doing that".
These "strategies" of tunneling and camping the first thing that moves in the match have been meta since the games launch, 9 years ago. That isn't "having an effective solution", it's "these are far too powerful, and need something more".
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990770#Comment_3990770
- Where's my compensation buffs?
If you'd added (even though there's a compensation buff included), you would have hit everything.
So close. I'll remember next time... (Oh wait, the game is dead after this patch. I've missed my chance!)
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@cogsturning said:
So gen jockies should be punished through tunneling for doing the objective instead of clicking their flashlights and running the same obnoxious exhaustion/chase builds? Like what build to killers want? No gen build. No chase build. No second chance build. Like legit what do you want them to do? Cleanse dull totems with a meme build? I'd rather see a gen build then another godforsaken Lara Croft with Windows/Finesse/Lithe that loves looping the shack.
And you can still tunnel, you're just going to be punished for it. You can still do it and win.
We already know the answer to this question.
You can't heal, you can't stay injured, you can't loop or "hold w", you can't hide, can't use items, can't do anything the impedes the killer or buffs the survivor team. And under no circumstances are you to ever, ever do gens.
So you can do one of two permitted actions: either wait patiently in plain view near a gen (but never touch that gen, oh no) and wait for the killer to be ready for you, or open chests and leave the item inside, just in case it might be useful later.
Oh, and absolutely don't just "give up" but don't actually "try" in chase either. So, just a bit of running in circles with no mind games and absolutely no thrown pallets.
You are allowed to leave the trial when and if the killer gives you permission.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990696#Comment_3990696
Thats not a very big buff, not gonna hold u
And yet, it is a buff, and it's incentive to not tunnel. Two things that killers have been asking for.
Three, really, since it's literally regression reward.
And you can entirely choose to not opt into those buffs and continue to tunnel. That's still a choice. It just happens to be a choice with consequences, and it may not be the "best option in every situation no matter what".
It would really be great if people had to use their game knowledge, game sense, and skill to determine which strategy was best instead of just always doing the same thing, regardless of what else happens in a match.
I'm surprised so many of these "Max MMR" killer gods on these forums aren't chomping at the bit to finally show off their actual skills.
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@ABAEX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990696#Comment_3990696
lol free BBQ and pop? survivor can avoid those.
but killer can't avoid 4.6~4.8m/s survivor Protect attacks inside killer.
if killer hook some survivor to die, killer will lost control to gen.
So, even getting into a locker to avoid BBQ (which was literally meta pre-6.1) is slowdown. You have to find a locker, wait out the aura read, and go back.
Pop isn't avoidable. The only way to prevent kicks is either gen block (so, repressed alliance) or to give up a health state or two working the gen while the killer gets free hits.
Honestly not sure what the middle paragraph is trying to say, but you should look up base movement speeds at minimum. It might surprise you to learn that killers are faster than survivors.
Gens aren't the killers objective, survivors are. Gens are a consumable resource for the killer, and, coincidentally, the killer can still get kills or even 4k after all gens are complete.
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@ABAEX said:
killers got punished by survivor's mistakes.
since 2016.
if survivors play right, the survivor even can't be found.
even be found, survivor can loop 5gen if survivor play right.
This entire post makes it sound like you haven't played a single match since 2016.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I know, I can't wait! I have my post already typed up for the instant they post anything.
I get to hit all the forums highlights:
- You can't possibly do this!
- How can you tell us how to play?
- This will kill the game!
- Good luck with your 40 minute queue times when we all quit!
- Where's my compensation buffs?
Man I'm so excited. Just waiting to hit "post" when they announce anything at all.
Aged like fine wine.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990605#Comment_3990605
How could it possibly be used for griefing?
As one example, killer has one survivor (player) they are slugging for the 4k and a bot remaining in the match.
Every 34 seconds the survivor stands up, and gets immediately hit back into the ground to reset recovery. (After the first 90s).
There is no escape path for the survivor in this scenario:
- The bot player is still standing, so abandon isn't available.
- The survivor can't physically crawl faster than the killer can walk, so they can't get away from being instantly downed again.
- The only avenue forward to end the game is for the survivor to be repeatedly downed, can't bleed out, and wait for the bot to finish however many gens remain. And since bots and terror radius, the killer can extend gen progress basically as long as they like.
Congratulations, instead of a 4 minute bleed out, you have a hostage situation. The killer completely decides if this occurs, the survivor has no way out except to disconnect (because the bleed out timer has been removed for no good reason).
That's just one example.
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Getting pop and BBQ for free, base kit, and even on first hook (so, even if you are tunneling) is a pretty big buff for killers.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990651#Comment_3990651
Maybe you should actually read and comprehend the rest of my post.
Everyone's going to care if the servers wind up crashing due to some buggy code.
I read it, still not seeing how killing all 4 survivors is going to crash the game.
And since I responded to a direct quote, in context, you haven't really had any discussion on that either.
The majority of this entire thread seems to misunderstand that the "killing survivors" post is intended to be rare, and with counter play for the survivors. (It's also completely within the killers choice to do so, and you can still hook people who are full).
Powers like pig hats and Onryo condemn aren't there primarily to get kills, it's slowdown that forces survivors to do something other than gens. With pretty harsh punishment for ignoring it. That doesn't change.
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Hopefully you find a game or past time that you enjoy. Best of luck to you.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
Wow. This is literally going to break the game. And I mean seriously. Could be very unintended consequences.
Imagine if sadako moris 2 survivors without getting any hooks. Does that mean the remaining two survivors now have +50% repair speed?
What if she mori's all four? Will the server crash due to a bug? 🤣
Dear god I'm a sadako main and I just realized how much this is going to suck.
Imagine if sadako moris 2 survivors without getting any hooks. Does that mean the remaining two survivors now have +50% repair speed?
In this hypothetical scenario, you've won the game.
Who gives a single crap about how much gen speed survivors might get when the only strategy with any gens remaining and two survivors is to wait out hatch?
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@cburton311 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/454875/i-updated-the-tier-list-for-patch-9-2-0
thats a whole lot of killers that must have crutched on cheap mechanics.
This isn't so much a tier list for killer characters, it's a tier list of killer players.
Those who can adapt will do fine... Better than five fine. Some people on these forums can't even concieve of how spreading pressure is supposed to work, and refuse to learn or adapt.
And I abuse the insane mobility of the ultra-OP, S-tier pig.
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In the past few years, there have been several meta shakeups that "force survivors to play in different ways":
Healing has gone back and forth several times, with "not bothering to heal" before circle, "staying healthy" (circle release), then back to "not bothering" (circle and medkit nerfs), and back again to "stay healthy".
Dead hard nerf twice (and, as I recall, there were an awful lot of posts claiming people couldn't "adapt" to not having their "crutch" both times).
Prove thyself and BNP nerfs switching people to medkits.
Massive changes to maps, tiles, and pallets, forcing people to deal with fewer resources, weaker pallets, and large dead zones.
Anti-Hiding and distortion nerf.
The only thing I'm seeing in the forums today is an awful lot of people who see the only way they can imagine playing this game (hard tunneling at 5 gens) getting changed, and are absolutely falling apart because they can literally think of no other way to play the game and refuse to try to adapt in any way. And that's even with extra incentives (plural) added to spread pressure.
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Nothing about being able to get back up guarantees you stay up. If the killer has you on the ground for 4 minutes in a match your game is over anyway.
I can see almost no benefit to removing this timer and a huge problem of this being abusable for griefing.
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990254#Comment_3990254
What pray tell will competent survivors be doing while killer is trying to figure out which one of them is weakest and is worth focusing their attention to?
If you're actually spreading pressure, then the answer to
What pray tell will competent survivors be doing while killer is trying to figure out which one of them is weakest and is worth focusing their attention to?
Is being chased and not on gens.
The big thing you're missing here is that this happens right now. It's just simply RNG if you get a "good" survivor first, and a map with decent resources, and a host of other factors the game actively randomizes in the match.
You're really hard focused on this whole "weakest link" thing, when the actual question is what are you giving the survivors to do besides gens?
Because the answer for at least 2-3 of them is "nothing" when you tunnel the first person you see. Then likely screaming "gen rush" when the others are doing the default action of gens.
If this kind of system actually breaks through and gets people like you to even try spreading pressure you'll actually see a pretty big impact on gen speeds, since survivors who are hooked, recovering, doing side objectives (killer power, hexes, etc), hiding, or being chased are automatically not doing gens.
All you have to do is not leave them completely alone. And with this new system, you get buffed and rewarded for doing that.