AmpersandUnderscore
AmpersandUnderscore
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3432010#Comment_3432010
I really don't understand how Killer is so difficult right now?
It feels pretty fair.
Perks like DH are gone. DS is gone. 3-genning (besides a certainly Dull Killer) is gone.
The game for the average Survivor is a lot worse than it is for Killer.
Even if you take the "I only face top teams" sort of thing, it's still winnable as a lot of Killers. Way more than it was 2 years ago.
I want nothing more than updated kill rates and statistics right now.
I feel like BHVR is metrics driven, and will generally only change something if the data agrees.
I'm still convinced that them expediting the Eruption nerf up by at least 6 weeks was a break glass event. Like kill rates north of 65% or so.
I know seeing kill rates won't quell the complaining, but it would be nice to know. I feel like a lot of people are expecting killer buffs when BHVR's data is saying killers are doing 'better than fine' overall.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3431694#Comment_3431694
Basekit BT doesn’t stop tunneling at all. During the Gen regress META, when survivors had basekit BT, killers still tunneled extremely efficiently.
I've always considered BT in any form (base kit, old perk, new perk) to be an anti camping perk.
Basically it just keeps you from getting downed instantly if the killer is standing there during the unhook animation and that's about it.
Turns out, a large number of killers can count to ten. So it's not that effective against tunneling, especially when it's 100% guaranteed.
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More and more I'm convinced that nearly a year of kicking gens has ruined the idea of 'normal' gameplay for this game.
The devs could, right now, revert ruin, tinkerer, and pop to their meta pre-6.1 states, and killers would have no idea how to use them. They'd be completely useless to someone standing at a hook, or tunneling all their attention on exactly one survivor.
It's like 'pressure' now means pressuring hooks, gens, unhooks... Anything except pressuring survivors. There's an incredible amount of posts on this forum where killers just expect survivors to stand there afk politely until you're ready to deal with them.
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I'd argue that some (not all) of these situations are because the game is balanced to be a stomp one way or another.
Very rarely will you get 2k/2e in a game. More often than not it's a 3k+ or 0-1k.
So an early down for a survivor means they're likely going to be tunneled out of the game, and even if they get to play it's likely a loss anyway.
Not saying I agree with disconnecting or that this is warranted. Generally you can call a game as a hard loss within the first couple minutes or so.
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@jeffkillsyou96 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3430249#Comment_3430249
I also find it funny how boons can be placed infinitely but once a hex is gone its gone
I hear this a lot. Which would you prefer:
- Hexes can be lit by the killer, but takes 14 seconds to ignite it. Also, boons now take 28 seconds to be snuffed.
- Hexes can be relit by a 1-2 second action (snuffing animation). Boons also take the same amount of time to light, and the hex can be broken by survivors in the same time too.
If none of those are appealing, which they shouldn't be, then you have your answer as to why there's a difference between the two.
The biggest thing with totems, and by extension boons, is that they're designed to be a secondary objective for survivors. You won't get people interacting with them, especially not for up to 28 seconds at a time, if there's literally no incentive to do so.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427854#Comment_3427854
I think you misunderstand my suggestion. If a survivor gets hooked, they have one hookstate, only THAT single survivor will have a slower gen speed. It isn't some global debuff, it's ONLY the survivor that has hookstates, gets that debuff.
If the killer tunnels and camp then the three other survivors who have zero hook states will be doing gens at regular speed.
Then I'm not sure what you're addressing.
You are targeting gen speeds for survivors, which means that you think the largest issue is gen rushing. But applying a debuff on hook means you'll likely still lose 2-3 gens in your first chase, which is the typical complaint.
By the time you hook 4 survivors the game is already decided. If 4+ gens are left by the time you've hooked all 4 survivors you're already destroying a solo q squad. With a full SWF, the gens are done by hook 3.
In either case, this solution has no impact on the outcome of the game. It's still 'win more', which I already addressed.
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I certainly recognize there are different reactions from different people, but for me it usually comes back to kill rates.
The devs said when they posted the most recent stats last fall that they were happy with a 61% average kill rate, and solo q and SWF were only separated by about 10%.
So as a solo survivor, the devs have told me that I should lose the majority of my games by design, and I shouldn't expect more than about a 35% escape rate.
Ok then, my response to that is: that kinda sucks, but can you at least make sure the game is fun while I'm losing? I don't really care about winning as long as the matches are generally fun to play out.
And especially from a solo q perspective, 'fun to play' means getting some good chases/ moments from both sides, getting decent BP, and yeah, at that point I care less about losing that match. Hopefully that's fun for the killer too.
The answer I feel I get from most killers is that this is completely unreasonable and I should go ######### myself.
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Nearly everything about this is problematic.
- This implementation is 'win more' and nothing else. If the killer can get 2 hooks in before 2-3 gens are done the game is over, killer wins. If 2-3 gens are done before first hook, the debuff does nothing to help that.
- If anything you'd want it backwards, a reduction to gen efficiency that goes away with more hooks. Killers want the start of the game to slow down, survivors need time later in the game. Although, since it's always part of the discussion, ask yourself why survivors are being punished for tunneling with this solution? Because you can still tunnel the first survivor out and keep the 20% gen speed debuff forever.
- 20% gen speed is ludicrous, 40% is obscene. That makes base gen speeds 112.5s and 150s respectively, and even the 20% number is exactly why they nerfed Thana. At 40%, it's 30s faster to hang on hook for both stages (120s) than it is to finish one gen. Which leads to the next issue:
- This gigabuffs camping. Stand in front of your first hook and one of two things happens: 1) survivors leave them to die, but gens take 112.5s permanently. A single gen takes as long as the survivor dying on their first hook. Or 2) a survivor comes to trade at the hook, which now makes gens take 150s instead. It's a literal win/win for face camping, that it doesn't need.
- If you really want to give a reason not to tunnel, you'd have to make it less efficient than removing 25% of the survivor team. If you're taking the approach of buffs and debuffs, you'd have to buff survivors by more than 33% gen repair speed when one person dies. That works out to 3 survivors doing the work of 4 survivors, and the killer gains nothing for tunneling. I don't think I have to elaborate why that's also a terrible idea.
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@miniwengsel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3427218#Comment_3427218
A single Map offering I have stats over my round incloding Map Offerings, Perks and Items and the survivors throw map offerings in 70% of my matches.
Second Point gen speed perks arent the main factor why gens go fast. Mostly its medikits, because you can have constantly two on gens. So I would say for gens a syringe is even stronger than a BNP and In my Round if you look at my statistiks there are around 50% of the lobby with medkits and the chance the medkit has a syringe is at 64%.
And the 300% BPs are thrown, because the survivors can secure easly the win with all of this together
Would you say that this is maybe a reson to tunnel.
I think there's there's room for improvement in the perks and add-ons at minimum. It's also unlikely that you played the game perfectly, and since 2.5 of your perks rely on you getting downs to do anything at all, you likely had next to zero pressure for this match.
It's interesting that you choose to showcase this as your problem case. It's also unlikely that anything I say will cause you to introspect, or even consider that there's anything at all you could do to improve.
So best of luck to you.
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@RoastedGarlic said:
tunneling was way less prevalent before bbq lost its BP bonus. just saying.
That's because DS was still a viable counter and one of the most picked perks in the meta. Killers would play around DS even if it wasn't in play.
While I don't disagree that there are killers who were incentivized to spread pressure with the BBQ bonus, there are many more killers who got a free pass to tunnel because OTR is a joke compared to the old DS stun.
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@Gibberish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426922#Comment_3426922
No it really isnt. Finisher mori doesnt somehow magically make slugging all remaining survivors easier or faster, it literally just cuts out the part where the Killer has to meander around the map picking people up and the survivors just have to wait.
It gives zero benefit to the killer, it's literally just an time-saving/anti-stall thing.
Easier? No, but that's not what I said.
It rewards the killer with a literal instant win for: tunnel the first survivor at 5 gens immediately, then slug the last 3. That becomes the fastest way to win the game, and it isn't a fun play style for anyone.
The incentive is there, so playing this way becomes 'optimal', and what do were already know about 'optimal' gameplay in DbD? People will play like that and convince themselves there's money on the line in a tournament, even if it's never necessary.
And the cost of this is infinite unbreakable, which makes every down with a nearby flashlight lose/lose. If you pick up, flashlight save, if you leave them slugged and can't get the second down quickly, they get up.
Literally no one wants the finisher Mori to see the light of day.
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This used to work just fine, and was shadow nerfed at some point. I don't think it was in the patch notes anywhere, it just started triggering both perks at the same time one day.
I doubt they'll change it back. They've even added a 'secondary ability' button since then for reassurance, and could've moved either repressed alliance or blast mine so they don't share the same keybind anymore.
It would be nice tho to choose which ability key bind to use for each perk, but I'm not holding my breath.
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What exactly are we complaining about now?
These 4 survivors are clearly tired of being camped, tunneled, and slugged. There are zero 'gen rush' perks, no toolboxes, no BNP, not even a prove thyself. The only thing that even affects gen speeds is resilience, and given the medkits, they didn't want to be injured anyway. They even brought 300% extra blood points for everyone, including the killer.
You brought a haphazard build with roughly C-tier add-ons that lean into the M1 part of Myers' kit and have literally nothing to aid in chase.
So you're angry about a single map offering? I mean, I know some people expect to bring a perkless build and still 4k with their monitor turned off, but c'mon.
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@Gibberish said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426787#Comment_3426787
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3426649#Comment_3426649
Getting all 4 Survivors downed is already a win condition for the Killer even without the Finisher Mori, literally all the Finisher Mori does is stop the game from getting stalled out.
You're leaving out the gigantic downside that the Finisher Mori becomes hands down the fastest, most efficient way to play the game if they were to implement it directly from that ptb.
Which means every game is suddenly a game of survivor whack a mole until everyone bleeds out or the killer gets all 4 down at once.
It also means tunneling one survivor out is the fastest way to finish the game, since slugging 3 survivors for a win becomes way easier than slugging 4.
It would be incredibly detrimental to the game to actively encourage that kind of play style. And putting the finisher Mori in the game would change how people play to try and force it to happen.
It's not just a reactive 'it shortens an already won game', it actively changes the meta in a terrible way.
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My hard counter to this recently has been to not play survivor, or usually just not play DBD at all.
Sometimes the only winning move is not to play the game.
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Hard no on the conspicuous actions and disabling during end game changes. Those were valid nerfs and are fine as they are.
If you mean reverting it back to a 5s stun with no other changes, I'm 100% on board. The current stun duration does literally nothing to deter tunneling.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3424980#Comment_3424980
They were kill switched because their glitches adversely affected their own gameplay. The point is that bugs that harm killers in some way are swiftly killswitched (rightfully) but those that harm survivors usually aren’t. And like it or not, that’s a trend.
I think the twins bug they're referring to is the recent one where swapping to/from Victor could soft lock the game for the killer. They couldn't move or interact with anything and just had to wait for survivors to finish gens and leave.
It was actually bugged for over 2 months without a kill switch. It was long enough that there was a mid chapter patch during that time that didn't address the issue at all, and it was still a problem.
Weirdly, it was the same kind of issue that they did kill switch nurse for about a year ago, and nurse was out for about 6 weeks.
I don't disagree that BHVR's use of the kill switch is, at best, inconsistent, and at times eyebrow raising. But they really did all 5 of the twins mains dirty when this was a thing and it should've been kill switched, but wasn't.
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@Seraphor said:
Why are killer issues ignored by the devs?
Survivors are still rushing gens and powering the exit gates, despite the fact that this causes killers to lose kills. When are they going to address the very real issue of survivors being able to escape?
Survivors: camping and tunneling are a problem.
Killers: gen speeds are too fast
Devs: adds base time to all gens
Killers: DS is unfair
Devs: nerf DS into obscurity
Killers: dead hard is op
Devs: nerf dead hard
Killers: dead hard is still op
Devs: nerf dead hard again
Killers: healing is too powerful
Devs: obliterate circle of healing and global self healing nerf
Survivors: so, uh, can we do something about the camping and tunneling thing?
Devs: here's a HUD so you can see your teammates opening chests.
Killers: since this works so well, gen speeds are a problem again.
This is the definition of moving the goal post.
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@Pulsar said:
Because it's fairly difficult to fix in a way that won't be abused by either side.
I agree that the issue is complex if you're trying to target a specific thing like face camping at 5 gens.
But I think a much simpler thing like 'add 10 seconds to every hook stage' or 'match hook stages to gen times' would go a lot farther to reduce camping by making the practice less efficient without being directly abusable by anyone.
I'm also convinced that there's no carrot, stick, or mechanic that will fix the issue in the long run. The only way to really deal with it is to make other play styles more efficient, or camping less efficient, and players will gravitate away from it naturally.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420202#Comment_3420202
My while point is that they nerfed self healing now imagine if in that same patch they also buffed anti heal. That's pretty much what they did with regression not to mention the last 3 chapters have had some kind of gen speed up perk. It's not a one to one example but it's sounds pretty dumb to nerf self healing but buff something like sloppy or Coulrophobia.
I'm not going back and forth with random hypothetical situations.
My point is that there's a massive difference between 'everything got buffed' and 'one perk got touched, and still isn't worth using'.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419909#Comment_3419909
Think of it this way what if the threw a number change on an anti heal perk this up date
Sure, but:
1) they haven't buffed anti healing in the past couple of patches.
2) if they did buff an anti healing perk, like, say, making leverage activate for 35 seconds instead of 30, the correct phrasing is 'they buffed an anti healing perk and nerfed self healing'. Calling that 'they buffed all anti healing and nerfed all healing into the ground' is just untrue. It also doesn't make leverage worth running.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/374647/since-the-update-how-have-your-games-been
That's what happens when you nerf all the gen regression but leave and then buff gen progression perks. At this point there is no way to stop gens from been done the best you can do is block them for a short time but that 80% gen is still 80% when it gets unblocked.
buff gen progression perks
Just so we're clear, you're specifically talking about overzealous. That's literally the only 'gen progress' perk to have been touched in like 6 months.
A perk that, even with a couple rounds of number tweak buffs still requires the survivor to complete 1.6 full generators to break even on the totem time, and is completely hard countered by.... injuring them?
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@Dreadnight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3419072#Comment_3419072
Sorry if I have not explained myself well but I am going to expand my answer a bit since what I put or omit is not by chance, but because I am not an English-speaking player, and it is easier for me to answer short and simple things.
First of all, I have not asked why sloppy and botany have different bonuses, I simply let you see that one of them seems bad to the community, but nobody talks about the other, therefore it may be that it is balanced according to the community.
I am very aware of the penalty that botanical knowledge has regarding medkits, but the perk numbers are high enough to allow you to heal another survivor at the same rate as if you had a medkit.
The only case where Sloppy Butcher can be better than Botanic Knowledge is when a Survivor self-heals. And when it happens, it's more of a survivor's mistake.
The community has to be aware that the most optimal way to use the medkits is to heal others and not themselves. If the killer uses Sloppy butcher, and you self-heal, you are risking making a mistake. My conclusion is that sloppy butcher is balanced, but survivors want to play without worrying about being dependent on another player.
Lastly, what you call "cry imbalance", I call it "debating". We all have the possibility to express and argue our opinion. In the end, most of the changes that are made come because people "cry".
I was just explaining the bonuses. The way you presented it made it sound as though you were expecting sloppy butcher to have a 50% or higher debuff to healing to match botany, despite the secondary effects. That's all I was trying to comment on.
Likely the reason you aren't seeing complaints about Botany is because, as I said before, the perk is infrequently used because it requires at least one, if not more than one, additional perk slot or item addon to function. If you are running Botany, you are likely running self care as well, which is 2 perks to self heal, and even Botany with its extra downside isn't enough to fully offset the horrendously slow healing speed from SC.
If you're using botany to heal others, you are vastly better off with We'll Make It, which has 100% healing speed bonus and no debuff, but is on a very long timer. Or even Desperate Measures, which is just a variable passive bonus.
Sloppy butcher needs no additional perks to function, and is incredibly popular. I'd be surprised if SB wasn't in the top 3 killer perks right now. You get value from the perk just by having it and playing exactly as you would without it. And even if Botany would overcome the sloppy butcher bonus, you'd still need every survivor to be running it to just to "counter" the mangled portion of the perk.
It's the same reason no one is complaining about Inner Healing. IH completely bypasses both parts of Sloppy Butcher's effect, but almost no one runs it, so no one cares. An incredible number of killers are running SB right now.
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@Dreadnight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417778#Comment_3417778
The change to medkits is to fix the gross abuse of self-heals and encourage team healing. The base healing speed still the same before the midpatch.
You are complaining about the Haemorrhage status. This effect was useless until they reworked it. The effect is not overpowered, it just does its job.
If a Survivor heals near the Killer and the Killer interrupts their healing, it's not the Killer's fault. Same with healing under a hook.
I'm not the person who posted originally.
You asked why sloppy butcher and botany knowledge have different speed bonuses, and I simply gave the reason why. That's it.
I'm sorry you don't like the answer, but you can't just ignore half of each perk and cry imbalance when the part you cherry picked doesn't match.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3418010#Comment_3418010
Yes, but you can make a bit of an avarage out of these stats and I don't think the perks there lie. You see these perks these days the most I would say.
One of the main problems with nitelite as a source is that it's not just a sample of user submitted data, but it's an English website. So I assume almost all of the data comes from NA.
That leaves out huge chunks of the player base in EU and Asia, and we already know (from the devs saying so) that play style and perk choices are largely regional.
For example, the most noticeable thing is that self care isn't in your top 9(?) survivor perks, but even the most recent official data from BHVR in September 2022 had self care in the top 3. I believe nitelite had SC at #9 or so at the time BHVR released official data.
SC specifically is insanely popular in some regions, enough to completely skew the top 10 data... just not popular in the regions that nitelite captures.
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@EmmaFrostyEyes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417769#Comment_3417769
wish the ignore button worked on private profiles
You can ignore private profiles, it's just not explained anywhere.
Go to your own profile and select the Ignore List option. You can manually add a private profile to that list if you type the name there. I believe it's case sensitive, so I usually copy/paste.
Enjoy a much more sane forums experience!
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Might be unrelated, but from what I can gather the old 'grades' system was replaced by the first iteration of the MMR system in September 2021.
Was/still is a pretty controversial change to the game. Or could be unrelated, not entirely sure.
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@Dreadnight said:
I dont understand. Why Sloppy Butcher is strong (-20% healing speed), but Botany Knowledge (+50% healing speed) its ok?
Sloppy its a killer perk with healthy numbers. Survivors have perks to counter it too (And stronger).
Why survivors want to play with 4 chase perks and second chances, but don't want to use slots for information or healing speed when the killer does?
Because the secondary effect of sloppy butcher is that healing regresses incredibly quickly if you pause or stop healing for any reason. It's a second effect that is also a huge upside to the perk.
The secondary effect of botany knowledge is a debuff to medkit efficiency. So much so that you are required to run an extra charges add-on to even be able to use a medkit to heal yourself, and it becomes impossible not only to heal yourself twice with a medkit but also impossible to heal yourself with a medkit you find in a chest. The only way to offset this is to run a second perk (self care, streetwise, ace in the hole, etc) at which point you're using at least two perk slots.
In the end, the second effect of botany knowledge is a huge downside to offset the primary bonus.
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A year ago I wouldn't have cared about hit and run.
But after nearly a year of killers dropping chase to kick gens, patrol gens, hold their 3 gen with a death grip, or just simply ignoring you 5 feet away to apply Eruption before going back to hook, I'm pretty burned out on the play style of dropping every chase in under 2 seconds.
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@Mr_K said:
Survivors: Selfcare takes longer. Can no longer use Boons to heal yourself.
Killers: All gen regression perks have been gutted like selfcare.
Now what has really changed? Before Boons did you run selfcare? Because selfcare sucked even then. Face that survivors crutched on easy heals for awhile now and you're back to pre-boon gameplay. Same goes for killers btw. Many killers crutch on gen regression. Now they have nothing but Pop which is weaker than pre-boon Pop.
So what's the issue? The new killers? Do you really see them that often? See your teammates perks? Ha, I imagine lobby dodging on the survivor side to increase. Not running the meta or some random perks? Dodge, who wants to play with that loser. In the end of the day a survivor with good perks can still play poorly. BHVR can't program in a better person.
You're kidding right?
Killers have gotten an info perk, chase perk, and/or a utility perk every chapter since Sadako.
Healing slowdown was buffed like crazy to combat the now extinct circle of healing: Hemmhorage changed to regression, sloppy butcher buffed with double regression speed, Coulrophobia got increased skill check speed, Pentimento can slow healing by 30% at just 2 stacks. None of those have been adjusted in the slightest. Which doesn't even touch the 50% nerf to all self healing that just went live. That's a massive difference from the 'just 99% with self care' that existed before boons.
Not to mention that before the Boon/Artist chapter, the only real aura perks were BBQ, I'm all ears, butter murmur, and nurse's calling. Now, lethal pursuer buffs almost all aura perks, and there's also floods of rage, darkness revealed, awakened awareness, face the darkness, nowhere to hide, and Thwack as tools killers can use and stack together to find survivors.
On top of that most of the killers have information built into their kit with some combination of killer instinct, interacting with the killer power, or both.
You can't just hide in a locker while they're hooking a survivor to avoid being found by BBQ anymore. It doesn't work like that anymore. You just have to assume you'll be seen, and your heal can be interrupted. Even distortion and off the record aren't going to guarantee you can stay hidden safely. Eventually you'll be found, or just chased immediately off hook where it doesn't matter.
It's literally nothing like it was before boons.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405729#Comment_3405729
It was tried more than once and didn't make it to live either time because of the way people used it.
While you feel their is no evidence for Reassurance, that is exactly what happened during that ptb. Fearmongering had nothing to do with it because as I said, the player that actively seeks to hard face camp you will still do so no matter what state that perk shipped in. What it did do though was get used by survivors to make legitimate hook defenses against people basically running up the moment they got the person on the hook a scenario where the killer essentially had no good options and positioned the person on the hook to be camped in situations they otherwise would not have been.
Like if you think killers have enough vocal power to sway the devs you're out of your depth. If that were the case they certainly would have made use of it to get a million other things than a nerf to Reassurance a perk that even if it shipped in its ptb form less than 10% of players would probably bother equipping it. The devs never promised to remove camping and have on many occasions said that they were looking into and testing ways to mitigate it. They have delivered on some mitigation that helps, but I don't see you getting what you want unless they change how gameplay works. Which means changing things connected to and even then you may still not actually get a total solution.
If it ever happened at all there would've been evidence. Somewhere, Reddit, Twitter, video or twitch vod, the forums. People love to show off stacking everything for 12 minute heals or 350% move speed. It would've made for good, easy content... Especially if it was 'omg rampant, everyone is doing this on PTB, abuse everywhere!!!'
You're claiming it happened, so show me. I've asked at least 6 different times since that PTB for anyone to provide evidence that this occurred, no one ever has. Maybe you'll be the first, but I sincerely doubt it.
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@ReikoMori said:
Everytime we try ways to severely curtail camping, survivors weaponize it to the point that it negatively impacts the gameplay experience of killers in a bad way.
That's why the devs are very cautious with even adding perks that are meant to mitigate it. When Reassurance was in ptb survivors almost instantly got it nerfed cause they turned it into a hyper offensive weapon that messed up the flow of games too much.
That's how unhinged people get in this game, we can't have solutions to problems without folks trying to bend them into hyper competitive weapons that ultimately cause the situation it is trying to prevent to become much worse for one or both sides. The design of the game needs to change to actually completely remove camping, but the moment they do make that change they'll need to address basically everything else related to it.
Every time
This was tried once by the devs on a PTB like 6 years ago. It was heavily flawed, didn't make it to live, and exactly zero more attempts have been made since.
When Reassurance was in ptb survivors almost instantly got it nerfed cause they turned it into a hyper offensive weapon that messed up the flow of games too much
This never happened. There was never any evidence of this actually occurring, and was an invented possible scenario to keep Reassurance from being pushed to live in it's original form (that might have been effective at it's job).
At best, the perk has the possibility for griefing *if* at least two survivors and the killer were all in on it. The fix, which was mentioned a lot at the time, was to allow the hooked survivor to cancel the effect as an opt in system, which solves any griefing issues in one shot.
Instead, the fearmongering that camping was actually getting addressed got the perk gutted into being basically ineffective in most camping situations.
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Camping could be partially combatted by just increasing the hook timer.
Sure, there's an argument that survivors aren't going to want to hang on hook for longer if the killer does camp, but the only way to really fight camping is to make it less efficient than leaving the hook and pressuring the other survivors.
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Survivors and killers also lose collision during a fall. So if they dropped down from above and landed on your head they would phase through you.
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It's day 1 of a 'new meta' patch, where (some of) the gen control perks that have been dominating the game for almost a year are now gone.
I hardly see BNP as 'protest' and more that people are trying the blindingly obvious strategy that doing gens before the killer can snowball is probably a good way to escape.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3403710#Comment_3403710
That limitation is going to stop a lot of people from running DH. That said, it's still usable if you want to gamble that you'll still get value out of it. CoH isn't dead, but it lost much of its bite.
The nerfs to killers/slowdown is a lot clearer, for sure. As of now, there's barely a slowdown meta left. We'll have to see what follows, but I generally feel like this update is relatively even handed, as far as updates go.
Circle is kind of a side grade of you're running in a SWF because you can maybe coordinate the positioning and timing. Callouts like 'i'm on a gen near shack, head clockwise from the boon and I'll head that way when I see your aura, then we can finish the gen' will net you a healing bonus that's worth it with minimal downtime.
Alternately, a SWF can just not run Circle, heal at the gen, and only spend a few seconds more without the need to boon at all in the first place.
The circle nerf kills the perk completely for solo q where you can't rely on teammates or coordinate. People will just crouch spam in the boon until someone crosses the map to heal them, or just self care forever instead.
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@Pulsar said:
Are you still posting these completely unrealistic scenarios?
You run this in a public game and you get tunneled out since you have no Exhaustion perk, no protection perk and your teammates sure aren't gonna help you.
You would see this in a real game when pigs fly.
But best I can do is +4% extra crouch speed. At least until she gets the nerf bat again.
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I think the circle and medkit changes will be extra slowdown for solo q that they didn't need. It will likely see a rise in self care/botany usage, so self healing will be just as prevalent. I expect tunneling will be common, as solos will gravitate towards healing immediately after an unhook, near or directly under the hook.
I highly doubt that the changes will see an increase in 'hit and run' viability for an extended length of time. It might pop up for a bit as the patch settles, but it won't stick around for long (because...)
The most optimal play from both sides doesn't change. Survivor health states are more valuable, so pre dropping to avoid hits will still be a thing. Doing gens as fast as possible while your teammate loops is still the best play by survivors. Which means that tunneling is also still the most optimal play for the killer. Anyone who currently 'is forced to tunnel' will feel that same pressure and will continue to do so for the exact same reason.
Dead Hard will be gone for a few months and then resurface again, though not as high a pick rate as before. The more comfortable with killers are with lunging and hitting m1 at the first opportunity, the stronger dead hard becomes. The most frustrating part (a survivor being able to counter a hit) hasn't changed, so even with a thousand restrictions and at most 2 uses, some survivors will go back to it after killers forget it exists. And then we'll see posts about it on the forums, even if it only blocked one hit in 40 games.
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Lazy trapper: bloody coil + your choice of second add-on (I usually use green bag, but iri stone is also good)
Hysteria, deathbound, nurse's calling, and either fearmonger, blood echo, or shattered hope. I haven't tried hex: face the darkness, but it would also serve the purpose. Anything to encourage them to heal each other or want to be healthy.
Place traps like you're a brand new player. Make them obvious, at pallets, doorways, etc. and not very well hidden. Disarming a trap injures a survivor and also triggers hysteria. So you have injured and oblivious survivors you can see healing through walls. If they're too far away for nurse's, they scream with deathbound healing each other.
Makes me laugh every time they scream and I get some really fun jump scares. Terrible build, but if it works even once in a match it's always funny.
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DS disabling during end game is a reasonable change, just like disabling with conspicuous actions was reasonable.
I think the only thing that was overkill was the stun duration nerf. With a 3 second stun (1 second of which is animation locked for both players) the survivor only gains 2 seconds of distance.
DS isn't even effective at it's job anymore and can largely be ignored or laughed off by killers now. It used to be something killers at least considered or played around because the stun was an actual deterrent.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401395#Comment_3401395
While i could get behind the argument about the bug, saying:"
Camping/Tunneling/3 genning "inflates" your MMR. That isn't actually accurate. If using those strategies "inflates" your MMR. Then the would imply that those strategies are the most effective to be using
I don't think there's ever been a question of those things being effective. That's why they've become more prevalent.
But a killer who relies on always hard tunneling the first hook, even/especially at 5 gens, *will* win games. Until they start getting survivors who can loop them long enough that it doesn't work or otherwise outplay that strategy. That's my point.
Having 'effective' strategies doesn't change the fact that only a select handful of exclusive people are actually 'the best at the game'. Nearly everyone who wins consistently will start hitting a wall of getting matched with an opponent that can and will beat you.
If you rely on 'easy/efficient' strategies without learning other aspects of the game (like decision making of *when* those strategies are best used, improving at chase, or overall game sense), then you'll hit that wall much faster and it will be significantly harder to improve at that point.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3401286#Comment_3401286
The ones purposely taking advantage of it are just shooting themselves in the foot. The wins will increase their MMR and they'll be here once it's fixed, wondering why they're getting matched with challenging survivor teams. It will only carry them for so long.
Well, I agree with you. But rarely does this lead to anything resembling introspection of their own gameplay.
The same thing happens when killers overly rely on camping/tunneling/3 genning to win a lot of games. They certainly will inflate their own mmr and post here about struggling or sweating every match because of it.
But a lot of them will just use that to claim 'you have to play like that to even have a chance', 'killer needs to be buffed', and/or 'survivors need nerfed'.
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@maximo99ac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399687#Comment_3399687
why take the only way to measure the skill of our teammates? (yes i know but its better than nothing) solo queu is already bad to take this would make the things even worse
Are you referring to the prestige level changes? Because those are to prevent things like lobby dodging that not only mess with queue times, but can also really screw up matchmaking.
Prestige isn't a measure of skill, just how much someone likes a certain character. You could play almost exclusively killer, and still have a P100 Nancy to show off a legacy character on the rare occasion you play survivor.
If anything, the player's devotion level would be an indication of hours played (still not necessarily skill), and that is never shown to anyone else. Prestige is just a cosmetic, but there are many people who either leave lobbies or have weird up front expectations because of it.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399992#Comment_3399992
I'm asking if anyone else knows the difference
I just don't understand why they are what they
1.0-2.2 and .25 like why is it such an advantage
No wonder why Killer players run 1 or more Gen regression perks
You're leaving out the biggest difference, which is that the killer gets that .25 regression as a passive damage over time effect. If you base kit kick and walk away, it continues to regress. If your perk damages the gen, that .25 regression ticks on it's own. Some of the most popular perks like Jolt or pain res make it so the killer never has to be near the gen in some cases to start regression.
The *only* way to progress gens by survivors is to actively touch them. There is no perk, item, or strategy in the game that progresses gens without a survivor dedicated to holding m1 and do nothing else. There's even a penalty for having more survivors stack on a gen (even prove thyself doesn't completely remove this penalty).
I don't think anyone wants 'equality' there. It would be dumb if the gen only regressed while the killer was holding the 'damage generator key' while actively standing at the gen, and it would just be broken if survivors could just tap a gen, walk away, and have it gain progress on it's own passively over time until the killer did something to stop it.
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@ehe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3399599#Comment_3399599
I mean, with nothing to replace it it'll be worse. Killers need slowdown to complete their objectives, after all the kill rate is ~55% with presumably meta perks. Without any slowdown killers will probably need to tunnel someone out ASAP, leading to even more unfun games for everyone.
if they were gonna do this they should've just made CoB basekit and killed all regression, so perk variety could exist
Last official kill rates were 61% average across the entire player base. Numbers provided by BHVR from last September.
And it doesn't matter what changes occur, tunneling *always* increases.
If survivors get buffed or killer gets nerfed, tunneling 'becomes more necessary to win than ever before'. But if killer gets buffed or survivors get nerfed then tunneling is 'still the most efficient way to win and just got easier to accomplish'.
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Actual qol would probably be things like:
* Hiding prestige levels in the lobby, only showing then at the end game screen.
* Allowing you to choose which prestige level to display (if you like a certain border)
* Toggle option to disable aim assist for killer
* Choose a certain lobby background, so you always see one from a previous chapter (or a random one) unless there's a new chapter or event to show off a new one
* Perk. Search. Bar.
* Built in perk randomizer, or a '4th' loadout slot that you can't modify that auto fills with random perks once you get in game
* FoV slider to replace shadowborn. I understand why this isn't strictly 'QoL' but I see this as more of an 'accessibility' feature tbh. Motion sickness is a thing.
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I think you underestimate the value of information for the killer. Every time I go against someone with Object I've been able to use it against them.
Knowing where survivors are is huge for maintaining pressure. I know if they're going for a save, healing, doing a gen, every 30 seconds. And if I'm playing a stealth killer, I get that information literally for free.
The perk is also largely RNG. I had a match I still remember where a Laurie was running it, and near the end of the match it showed me her aura as she got in a locker to hide for hatch. She just assumed I didn't see it, and I was across the map, but I basically got a free chase/third hook pulling her out of that locker because her perk got her killed by bad luck.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396579#Comment_3396579
Because it doesn't only allow the booner to self heal, nor does it require the Survivor to move next to the boon to Heal and can be used through walls and floors, also allowing areas to be quick for Survivors to reach the benefit, but make the area hard for the Killer to reach.
Don't forget that every second spent preoccupying the Killer is at worst four seconds that Survivors are able to leverage and at best 1 second.
Again, we're back to killer time to snuff. Whatever. The changes are going live in a week so the discussion is moot.
The perk will still have all those problems, and will only be useful to SWF, so healing pressure with circle against them will be just as poor as before if not worse.
Solo q will just be back to dedicating half their build to self care again, and don't need any additional slow down to be inefficient.
You can go spend 20 minutes snuffing totems against SWF, and turn your monitor off to beat any solo q squad.
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I've never understood the reason people want this change. A survivor without collision can still be the target of an attack, even right now.
This will just add another layer of frustration for killers because the Kate you can't see clipping into your hitbox, but just in front of you, eats the hit with BT instead now.
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@AssortedSorting said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396452#Comment_3396452
You also need to remember that you’re playing a PvP game, and the time taken to snuff it by the Killer should also be considered as it’s time they are not chasing/patrolling. (So long as the Survivor chose a decent spot)
Oh trust me, I'm well aware that snuffing a boon seems to take 10 minutes of killer time if the forums are to be believed.
But you also can't snuff self care either, and that doesn't take 14 seconds of prep time and can be done anywhere, even if all totems are gone. I'm not sure why snuffing time is suddenly a critical problem if circle only allowed the booner to self care at the same 35% rate as Claudette's perk.