I think survivor’ perks should be strong but must be earn and limited.
Just like how token perks work like Lucky break, flash bang….
- Selfcare: starts with 0 charges, 1 sec of healing other earn 1 charges. With 24sec of healing other earn a self healing. Maximum stack 24 chagres.
- Unbreakable: pick up a dying survivor earn a token. With token you can pick up yourself. Then the perk disable
Just throwing ideas how survivors perk should be imo
Comments
Unbreakable is too situational to have a requirement. To even attempt that you would have to make it impossible for killer to pick up survivors for 20s. I would be fine with self care one, tho I hate when something like healing has 24 stacks since it’s basically 1 stack of heal. 48 stacks or at least 36 stack would have been better
Im just throwing ideas how survivors perks should work, balancing is up to Devs.
Alot of survivor perks are too weak because they can bring 16 of them and usable right in the beginning without require doing anything.
Safecare is a prime example that self heal for 32sec is still far better than altruism healing because of you dont have to find a teammate which take alot of time. But nerfing make it too time consuming to ever use.
It's good system for some perks, but shouldn't be major system for all perks at all. Some effects simply don't deserve that restriction.
I think its a rather poor way of designing perks from the beginning. Not only do you have to do all the work in the game, but you also have to work for your perks too? If our goal is for Players to have perks that does something about a situation they don't like its just more salt in the wound, oh you had the perk, but didn't meet the requirements. Like instantly those sort of thing just turns the perk off to me, I don't want to play a game where I waste my perk slots. Its oil to grease the tough gears in the game, balanced.
DH is a perfect example of a perk which has been so prevalent and abused that you have to redesign the perk.
Unbreakable is not such a perk, and Self-care idk if it is either.
I think this would work better for primary objective perks. So, for example, you could add a requirement to gen speed perks to do altruism first like healing or unhooking. That inherently slows down the early game because survivors will be trying to earn these perks and gives a bit less incentive to do 'gens and nothing but gens'.
I like the idea of overzealous, but the investment of 14 seconds to bless or break the totem doesn't give a good return to gen speed. But that's the kind of trade off I think it's good to look for: time spent elsewhere up front in exchange for gen speed later.
But I don't think extra steps should apply to things like healing or recovery. The pressure for healing should be enough to make people want to heal up or pick up a teammate.
If you make healing too difficult, the best play is to just bang out gens as fast as possible. (It's why I disliked the PTB extra healing time). Self care is already inefficient even compared to altruistic healing already, and requires two perk slots to even be viable (with botany).
This, though, is exactly why I think the self care aspect should stay on circle of healing, even if the self heal speed is nerfed or only applies to the boon owner. The time to find and bless a totem is exactly the kind of up-front investment you're talking about, and may not even see a return at all if it gets snuffed early.
That's a Risk/Reward archetype.
Will not always receive value when you want it, notably at the start, but over time can be built to be stronger through directed effort.
Things that give a consistent value, a passive affect archetype, should generally be weaker in comparison (for a game). You have full use at the start, and had you been unlucky regarding the Risk/Reward perk, you'd still have a consistent value.
There is room for both types of Perks.
See Hexes for Killers, though understand that Hex placement RNG kinda means the Risk/Reward is handled by Map generation RNG rather than emergent player gameplay. (Which still should be addressed in some manner by allowing Killers to place their Hexes on Dull Totems).
POV : tell me you are a baby killer main without actually telling that.
sometimes this forum seems like satire
I’m not sure what your comment achieves apart from being derisive.
Can you elaborate?
You also need to remember that you’re playing a PvP game, and the time taken to snuff it by the Killer should also be considered as it’s time they are not chasing/patrolling. (So long as the Survivor chose a decent spot)
Oh trust me, I'm well aware that snuffing a boon seems to take 10 minutes of killer time if the forums are to be believed.
But you also can't snuff self care either, and that doesn't take 14 seconds of prep time and can be done anywhere, even if all totems are gone. I'm not sure why snuffing time is suddenly a critical problem if circle only allowed the booner to self care at the same 35% rate as Claudette's perk.
There are many perks that is too weak. I just think they should be stronger, of course it come with limited use, like resources they prepare, working for.
I can recognize youre new here.
Idea of nerfing even further selfcare and situational one time perk like unbreakable can only be object for ridicule.
Uhhh....stay calm, and read again
Still as bad as first time. This perk has been effectively murdered by devs before you. Just let it RIP.
You're saying, healing teammates 2 times grant you a self healing once in 24sec, is bad for you?
Because it doesn't only allow the booner to self heal, nor does it require the Survivor to move next to the boon to Heal and can be used through walls and floors, also allowing areas to be quick for Survivors to reach the benefit, but make the area hard for the Killer to reach.
Don't forget that every second spent preoccupying the Killer is at worst four seconds that Survivors are able to leverage and at best 1 second.
I mean, is it still the 65% healing speed penalty applied? Or is it a 16s self-heal?
Yes. It's bad. Because it defeats the whole purpose of the perk. The basic idea is to be able to spawn in a random (think hostile) lobby and being able to be healthy even if other teammates totally disregard you.
To balance this out, the perk should be generally inefficient compared to being healed by other survivor (in one way or another) - so that altruistic healing is a thing of the game.
So the most obvious way how to get both, is make self healing 2x as long as altruistic healing by other survivor + some extra time representing need to group up (but you can deduct a few seconds as this perk actually occupies a perk slot). For these reasons, I think 40s heal with perk vs 16s altruistic heal is actually balanced thing. Right now it takes ~46s which is close enough to be worth it in some obscure cases for soloQ (you can't always find another survivor in 14s, so this actually provides value) - making the perk generally bad (costs you perk slot and is inefficient), but usable (when you just can't find anyone else willing to heal you).
Your version just makes no sense, because you don't have efficiency and you don't have self-reliance. You need to heal someone at least twice (and at least 1x out of it alone) for a single heal. Like sure - you can argue that this perk buys you 8s efficiency once charged up (16s x 2 = 32s for altruism heal vs 24s for self heal), but you are removing the only perk in game that gave you unlimited unconditional self-reliance (for which you had to pay only with efficiency of such heal) - loosing the very reason for existence of this perk (and solidarity is already a thing in a game - which already does something too similar to your proposition).
I think a heal now take 24 charges? 1sec healing other giving 1 charges, an altruism heal takes 16sec, which gives 16 charges, 1 and a half heal would give you a Brown Medkit (self heal in 24sec).
The problem of Selfcare is the ability to self heal unlimited, thats why they nerf the perk to un-useable, so I think giving a requirement to make it strong, but you cant use it freely.
Solidarity heal you when you heal other. My selfcare is to give you a Brown medkit when you heal other, so you can use it later. Not a good comparison.
Your version just makes no sense, because you don't have efficiency and you don't have self-reliance. You need to heal someone at least twice (and at least 1x out of it alone) for a single heal
You miss the point, completely.
Devs recognize self heal is the strongest ability for survivors, come with unlimited use, which come with the least efficient as possible in return, to the point its a waste of a perk slot. My idea is to make it strong, which has to be limited use.
I think you also miss the point that after you Selfcare, you can recharge the perk by healing others again. Its not one time use. Perhaps you brought the line "Unbreakable: Then the perk disable" into Selfcare description?
Again, we're back to killer time to snuff. Whatever. The changes are going live in a week so the discussion is moot.
The perk will still have all those problems, and will only be useful to SWF, so healing pressure with circle against them will be just as poor as before if not worse.
Solo q will just be back to dedicating half their build to self care again, and don't need any additional slow down to be inefficient.
You can go spend 20 minutes snuffing totems against SWF, and turn your monitor off to beat any solo q squad.
I still think the proper change to CoH was to make Survivors need to interact with the Boon to heal, and introduce glyphs above the Boons indicating what Boon is being used.
Sidesteps the Altruism coordination efficiency granted from SWF coordination that will now be present for CoH, ensures sequential healing and same path needed to trek to the Boon as Killer, and also gives more informational clarity to SoloQ. Although this kind of Boon would be a different archetype.
i a killer and believe that luckybreak should recharge at about an 8th of the speed
If your version would be 1-time usage, it would be just worse old pharmacy.
And again. Soul and main reason why SC exists IS self heal. There's nothing wrong with self healing so long as other options are more efficient. 40s SC would be fine (you break even if you have to walk for 8s before someone starts to heal you, but you still pay for it with perk slot and higher chance to get interrupted). Ppl would use it only if they can't find another survivor.
Your version of perk is worse, because it's not about self-reliance (soul of the perk), but efficiency. For efficiency there are other perks. Solidarity (in case of healing, but you can also mention hyperfocus if we talk gens) being good example.
I see what you're suggesting and so far it sounds brilliant! But this system could backfire if you make too many perks like that.
I dont know why you keep bringing “self reliant”. The theme of the perk is Claudette is a healer and thats it.
Beside, I just giving idea how survivors perk should be: strong but limited use. How Devs want to balance is up to them.