Jejune
Jejune
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@ThePromethean said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/467172/exposed-effect-is-too-common-these-days
Simply put.... because the amount of 2nd chances survivors get these days is crazy. A lot is now basekit but I'm finding a lot with dead hard so if 4 people have dead hard it can take multiple hits to get 1 down. An example of this is when multiple people have dead hard, 1 hit to injure, someone uses dead hard to tank 2nd hit, then another survivor body blocks and tanks a hit, then they use dead hard to take another hit.... Then killer downs them that's 5 hits to get 1 down while 2 others are sitting on gens
Low tier killers can struggle to get 1 hit on some maps so having a situation where a killer has to get 5 hits to get 1 down is a bit much.
There might be fewer good loops but loops are not needed anymore because there are so many pallets. Just hop from pallet to pallet all match
I don't want to pop your bubble but if your counterargument is that everybody in solo q should run minimum one exhaustion and read eachother minds to cooridinate chains of body blocks in every game. We are playing different games.
As a side note: Take your freaking extra pallets and give me back good loops and structures. -
@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4078977#Comment_4078977
Packet loss happens even when internet stays up so totally true and possible. Internet connection does not mean you have solid connection to everywhere it does not work that way.
I can't have packet loss only on DBD, I literally opened up a video on YouTube to check. 1080p quality no problem no buffering.
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I didn't enjoy playing against her before, I still dont like to play against her now.
I am biased but I dont particularly enjoy undetectable killers simply because I like to multitask. -
@Donkeybqlls said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4078217#Comment_4078217
This! I really don't get the downvotes.
When on 2nd hook you still have some influence since the skill checks give you a choice:
- be the distraction because the killer still (might have to) keep an eye on you
- Just die quickly so maybe a teammate has a bigger shot at hatch
- Take "revenge" on a survivor who was a bad sport by giving the killer more time to find him/her
I find that these can give sole direction to the endgame. Sure not total gamechangers but some nudges
Now if your point is: can't we wait it out or opt to die by the click of a button ... That's a point of view I can follow, because this does not influence your choice as a 2nd time hooked survivor
My point is that 95% the time I am tunneled out of the match, game is unwinnable at that point, I cant be bothered to continue the way the match has been. The remaining 5% is whenever gens are finished or about to be finished, alternatively me being on the hook allows for the last remaining survivor to open the door.
If percentages were swapped, sure there is a reason. As it stands remove skill checks or I am going to not hit them and whether I live or not is up to the entity.
People forget that the game is balanced on 2-3 survivors dying every match hence the 60% killrate designed by BHVR. -
@HoodedWildKard said:
Ghostface the only killer with basekit exposed is considered basically the worst killer in the game.
Exposed is annoying but it's not really unbalanced. Most of the perks that cause exposed are super situational. Friends till the end can be countered just by jumping in a locker to prevent revealing your location then just hiding till the exposed goes.
And most of the exposed perks are just kinda bad. The only one that I have a problem with personally is NOED, and that's just because it annoys me. Dragons grip, starstruck, hubris etc all are super bad on their own. If you want to make them work you have to gear your whole perk build to it. Then you're a one trick pony and your build has no versatility.
Running vigil can help get rid of it quicker.
I never said that exposed is unbalanced, it simply too common and it never feels good to be hit with and on the other hand it doesnt feel good if you dont hit the survivor with 1 hit down.
Killers like ghostface, myers, billy, bubba, oni are boring to play against but cool to play as when you get 1 hit downs. When I play against them it feels like a waste of time. Kaneki is more fun to play against even when i get the succ through a boulder or a wall.
I never run vigil because there are more interesting choices, like literally any "press a button" perk is more fun to play with than passive that helps 5% of the time.
Sure I can run sprint burst with toolbox and mow through gens as fast as possible but whats the point? -
@HoodedWildKard said:
Ngl you said you thought about queue times but you didn't seem to realise it would absolutely nuke queue times to the point it would kill the game.
Everyone and their mum would smash that no replay button after a vaguely bad game. Everytime they lose they'd lock themselves from ever playing against that player again. After a week or two of that people straight up wouldn't be able to get games.
Tbh, thats sort of on them. Also if you have a game where if given the change people would avoid 100% of the player base then the game has bigger problems than avoid function
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@ItWasMeSEAL said:
"Fewer good pallets."
Lmao.I am talking about those short loops where killers never go through them surrounded by nothing
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@Necromonicon said:
I feel like if anything, exposed is currently underpowered. The mere existence of Vigil can significantly weaken exposed effects for an entire team without counterplay.
Show me one person that runs vigil without exhaustion perks
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@Wezqu said:
There is only 11 perks from 145 killer perks that cause Exposed thats about 7.6% of the total killer perks. Then there is eight add-ons on killers that can cause Exposed. There is only one killer currently in the game that causes Exposed on survivors with their power and thats Ghost Face. Shape's power does not cause Exposed after his rework and his slaughtering strike just deals double damage. Then there has been one event power that caused it too but that is not that important. You can also add the two survivor perks that can cause Exposed Dramaturgy and Shoulder the Burden to list all possible ways to get it.
How its lazy that killers decide to use perks that give them good return on using them and your frustration most likely is because of Friends 'til the End as its quite common one to run. Just to note you can counter it by hiding in a locker when killer is hooking. Most of the perks that cause Exposed can be countered and some of them are not even that good anyway like Iron Maiden you rarely get any Exposed value out of that.
Its more of I see it almost every game. Somehow I get Friends til the ends on me all the time even without perks that increase being obsession. Myers, ghostface is not really fun to play against with their ability to down in one hit, because if you get hit and everybody gets hit, no point in trying to win the match and if they never manage to land the 1 hit down they most likely lost the game.
There is also Billy and Bubba that just rev the chainsaw on your buttcheeks til it sticks. Etc, etc…
It never feels like the 1 hit down is deserved, it just happens and whether they get the down one side is dismayed -
@Aven_Fallen said:
The Skill Checks replaced the previous system, which was mashing a button to not die immediatly. Which was pretty bad, since it damaged controllers and was quite annoying to do, especially because if you missed it once, you died.
The Skill Checks made it easier and it also took longer to die, since you had to miss two Skill Checks to die. So there was some protection against missing at least.
Then as part of the Anti-Go Next measurements, it was changed that missing two Skill Checks was not enough. Now missing a Skill Check reduces the Hook Timer, but it takes more Skill Checks to miss to be out of the game. So if someone wants to go next, they take longer to do so which gives other Survivors more time to save them.
Personally, I dont think it makes sense at all to keep people around who want to go next, since they will not suddenly start playing the game. At worst they start to troll the other Survivors, at best they will run towards the Killer or just stand under the Hook. But some people seem to believe it helps.
Regarding the initial question - as said, it matters a bit if you hit the Skill Checks or not. A small fraction of the Hook Timer is removed if you miss one.
Majority of the time I dont hit the skill checks simply because I would much rather go to next game or because I am doing something else so I can't hit them (not to mention that being on the hook is so noisy, so i tab out whenever i get a chance, and I am already at 25% of main volume)
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Thats why I said 95% of time it doesnt. 5% of time it does, at which point it might aswell not exist.
I either get unhooked .0001 second after being hooked or the game is over so it doesnt matter if i hit 1 billion skillchecks i will die anyways. If I getting tunneled out of the game it still doesnt matter. -
@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074141#Comment_4074141
Hook Stages are the markers you get when you are hooked. So when you have two it means your next hook is going to kill you. You don't have hook stages on the start of the match. Like first stage is the Summoning Phase and the second is Struggle Phase and the third stage is Sacrifice.
I think the writing mistake is there though and it should say Hook Stages not Hook States as that does not even make sense.
Edit. and reported to bug reports.
Once per trial, while you do not have 2 Hook States and are next to a hooked Survivor,
use Active Ability Button 2 to unhook them:They lose 1 Hook State.
You gain 1 Hook State.
You scream.
You gain Exposed for 60/50/40s.Maybe its me, but I feel like while reading it; my brain reads ''They lose 1 hook state'' and translates it to ''they lose the 1 mark next to their name'', etc.
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Not literally, but I read it that way.
Once per trial, while you do not have 2 Hook States and are next to a hooked Survivor,
use Active Ability Button 2 to unhook them:They lose 1 Hook State.
You gain 1 Hook State.
You scream.
You gain Exposed for 60/50/40s.Maybe its me, but I feel like while reading it; my brain reads ''They lose 1 hook state'' and translates it to ''they lose the 1 mark next to their name'', etc.
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@Wezqu said:
That is what the perk does. It takes a hook state from the unhooked and gives it to the unhooker that is the user. So don't know what you mean by it being inverted?
No… Unhooker loses a hook state the person on the hook gets one
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@Royval said:
imagine having to go against basekit dead hard, iron will, ds, shoulder the burden, sprint burst, vigil. Not a good idea.
Firstly if you equip all exhaustion perks the only exhaustion perk you can use is SB.
You could remove all exhaustion perks and bloodlust then in turn add stamina system where you use stamina to run and once you run out you run slower (basically bloodlust 1 in reverse) you could also increase your speed (lets say it would give bloodlust 1 to survivor), but it uses your stamina faster. Survivors would be louder as they decrease their stamina, you could lets say regain stamina by walking/crouching (stamina regeneration would be smaller when in chase)
That's one example.
Also I said it before, I will say it again. Iron will that isn't 100% is worthless. Its like having 75% of cancer removed, you are still stuck with 25%. But hey its smaller. -
@o7o said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3466513#Comment_3466513
It's not a user problem. It isn't. You can tell the difference between a server problem and a user's internet. Did everyone's internet mysteriously become horrible where we all have 100+ ping in one match and everything feels so delayed? It is 100% server sided.
Last game all 4 survivors had 300 ping vs wesker. I was being grabbed by the power through walls and got hit while pre dropping pallets...
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One fix would be to make dh like mom. So it doesnt trigger deep wound status.
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I would prefer if it was a game mode rather than in base game or that I would be notified that the killer is playing broken mirror myers. If I had few poopy games in row I am not going to be arsed to deal with hit and run gamestyle with little to no feedback especially with medkits nerfs.
People are too paranoid to heal me while they can see that killer is chasing someone else how will they heal me if killer can attack them at any time.
Not to mention that the best way to deal with it is to rush the gens since you don't want to chase with that addon as a killer.
Lastly it requires indoor map, so if someone happens to play another map offering the match is over before it started.
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You would have to fix camping first... Imagine basement hag, but her traps immobilize you.
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@Crowman said:
Because the goal was to nerf self-healing
So you are telling me that 1 heal at 100% healing speed by using 2 addons rare and very rare one is too op?
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@Rulebreaker said:
We heard from somewhere that the devs were trying to push medkits to being more for altruistic healing rather than selfish but wanted it to be an option. Whether or not it's true, who knows.
I dont see people healing others with medkits so they failed.
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The problem is you have 3 gen from the get go. If you are competent enough you will make sure they dont get finished. At which point third of the map is under you surveillance, another third is the road which is a dead zone and the last third are the 3 houses on the other end of the map for which you dont care for.
So this map is survivor sided if they do 2 middle gens first, otherwise its killer sided.
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@SixShotOcelot said:
What exactly do you do to make Ghost Face revealed?
Please be specific. I struggle with this too and am curious of if it's a similar issue.
I look at him center of the screen. Last game I was like sneeze distance away his entire form in the middle of the screen and the game didnt even start "revealing'" sound the entire time I was looking at him.
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@HarlockTaliesin said:
The wording of this is odd. If the killer is running Franklin's, you're not going to be able to use the medkit on anyone including yourself. You can try to pick it back up right after you're hit, but you'll have lost a chunk of distance you could've had and you'll likely just get downed/hooked. And you'll still need a heal if you get off the hook.
Well if they have Franklin's and I figure it out in game I will drop the medkit and heal myself with it and only me. Otherwise I would have used it on someone else aswell.
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@Cyber686 said:
use botany+self care better than medkit. you can heal yourself and your teammates
50 second heal doesnt seem like a good choice
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3418483#Comment_3418483
You still can. You can pick it back up
Only if the killer never goes for me or they just do the hit and run strategy. You can pick an item mid chase without window or pallet nearby.
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@Steakdabait said:
what is a "gen reduction addon"?
the noise reduction addon for toolbox
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@IWasLeft2Die said:
I mean....there are counters to nearly everything in the game (a few outliers that are problematic). Killers should be able to have a counter to survivors tools and survivors should have counters to killer tools.
I get that but altruistic healing is with medkits is worthless against it. Which in turn makes medkit nerf even worse since you cant really do whats intended with medkits.
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@BlueHorkew said:
Like i don't get why we need a hard mode perk. The devs removed BP from perks so players don't feel that they are necessary, but why give a hard mode perk to the role that requires teamplay?
Killers get their meme add-os which sometimes are even good, but survivor is a team role. If the survivor wants a challenge they can just go with no perks, you can even give rewards for doing that if you want.
But a perk that is so detremental to your team maybe shouldn't be a thing.
The perk needs a rework. An anti slugging or helping your team kinda perk since it feets with David's lore of never going down and fighting for his friends.
I can take the loss of the No Mither/Selfcare memes, they stopped being funny long time ago. Just please rework it. David's perks have been getting worst and worst since his coming out, can he at least now get an actual third perk now?
Because they don't care or know, it's definitely not because they are reworking other perks.
They have ptb they could literally run it 24/7 and change, tweak perks weekly.
DS has been dead for months and they could have raised stun duration to 4s as a test.
You could give No mither all of the poopy perks that nobody runs and see if it's too strong.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3417744#Comment_3417744
Besides killers who literally just forget No Mither lets you pick yourself up, I've seen it mostly used with flashlights and "anti-pick up/ hook" builds (usually in swf).
UB is used for the extra 10% recovery time, and still conveys the surprise effect for killers who are aware of the NM timing. And athough I 100% agree about IW, No Mither's IW is still better bc it works while exhausted and also while dying.
Also I'm sorry but adding a whole exhaustion perk effect isn't a sidegrade, no matter how you put it, it still adds the possibility of denying the perk's negative effect (and extend a chase at that).
Ultimately I don't believe they would make an entire new DH from scratch or have 2 perks with it even if it's a little different, I'm just curious bc it's like the 5th time I see someone suggesting merging these two specific perks and I just don't get it. I know it was a popular combo but I figured it was bc DH was the best exhaustion perk and that ppl would simply equip an other one now (mostly if you're right and it wouldn't be that good)
People suggest it because it's a fair trade you put a ######### perk together with good perk and it could become a decent perk.
Currently No mither doesnt have enough to justify using it. You need 4 perks on top of No mither to do decent builds. 5th perk slot with No mither could be another solution.
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@Annso_x said:
You give up a health state to have infinite unbreakable + infinite iron will + not leaving pools of blood.
Adding an effect that gives you a bonus healthstate (even with DH's conditions) would basically render void the perk's negative effects.
(also this is far from the first time I see ppl suggesting to merge DH & No Mither, why's that? I'm a No Mither user but I've very rarely used DH, if No Mither forced me to use it and give up other exhaustion perks I wouldn't be happy)
You wouldn't have to use it just like you don't have to use dh you could bring other exhaustion perks. Also it wouldn't give you health state back because it doesn't guarantee it.
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The sad truth of the matter is that it's behaviors fault. They keep releasing bandaids in form of perks then they stack the bandaids like it's a jenga tower. It's all nice and dandy until the tower falls and they have no plan on how to fix it. So they start over on top of the ruins of last tower. Rinse and repeat.
What they could have done was make the survivor invisible, invincible, able to walk through walls at 200% speed for 10 seconds they can't interact with anything for that amount of time.
Simple solution, there is no body blocking, killer can't tunnel.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416672#Comment_3416672
Exactly, you are getting value from these perks without having to go out of your way to get said value
Same applies to Blood Rush and Dead Hard. They have powerful effects (Blood Rush is admitedly more niche) but no one is jumping in front of the killer purposefully just to activate them. In fact you can't get value out of them if the killer ends up tunneling
Nobody is jumping in front of the killer because nobody is running them. They are not powerful at all. You can have a pocket endurance with a medkit which is waaay better than DH. Both DH and BR have so many requirements that combined should grant you ability injure the killer. To make it worth it.
I dont get why you are trying so hard to prove that these perks are apparently op while they clearly aren't.
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@Halloulle said:
I suppose it comes down to what the "gg" entails / actually means. And that may very well differ from person to person.
To me a gg is a very literal thing: a good game. A match where everyone was able to (and needed to) show a variety of skills and playstyles and where no one leaves a match feeling like it was a waste of time or a chore. A "gg" is at the end of an at times fierce and frustrating but ultimately friendly competition.
So yes, there are a number of events that make a match not "gg" by default. Circling the hook and tunneling one after the other is, for me, one of those things. (So is a swf bringing genrush builds, btw.)
See I love this response, because you actually in a roundabout way answer my question. Its not about GGs its about the meaning behind them and rarely does a GG or BG for that matter describe the state of the game in correct way.
What saddens me the most is that people boil it down to its just gg just go next.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416730#Comment_3416730
Idk who you think you are fooling here. If it didn't bother you, there would be no need for this topic. If you don't want to say GG for whatever reason, then don't. No one is forcing you to interact with the end game chat.
Why are you so angry? The biggest fools are those who try to fool themselves, but I simply had a question since I have games like these sometimes so I ask.
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@Anti051 said:
Use better perks then?
Not everything is meant to get value all the time.
Take endgame perks for example: Sometimes people run hope and adrenaline or no way out and NOED, but never see any value.
Plus I'm not sure that DH ever needs its BS factor reinvigorated
Quick question am I correct in saying that the quickest way to get to use either of the afforementioned perks is to find a killer and get hooked. Its simple yes or no question. What are the chances of you using those perks if you never get hooked? I would say 0.
People are hell bent on saying how in niche scenarios that never happen those perks are pretty good. At least you said that these perks are valueless. Lastly yes sometimes perks dont give as much value as you expect them to, but currently there are no other perks that are so hard to activate and give so little reward (in comparison).
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416722#Comment_3416722
It's a GG, because it was a GG. Tunneling someone out does not make the game less of a GG.
You don't have to interact with chat if things like people saying GG are going to bother you to this extent.
It doesn't bother me. I simply asked how is that a good game. To me its very simple question, but by refusing to answer it you create an enviorment where it seems like I do.
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@HugTechLover said:
Dude, just say GG and go next. It’s not that serious.
Its not, i never disagreed. What bothers me more is that nobody here mentioned that it was or wasnt good game.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416694#Comment_3416694
I did address the topic. The game doesn't stop being a GG just because someone got tunneled out it. It's simply a part of the game. If people saying GG is going to bother you so much, just hide the chat and move on.
No it doesnt, it might adress some other topic tho. I wouldnt know. You just described what I already said 3 times. My question was how is that a good game, you didnt give an answer to that one.
Lets say there is a game 0 hooks, gen rushed, I say GG how is it a good game? Its not. You are trying to dodge my question so hard literally end up wasting time.
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@vanGlasse1 said:
it is just two letters, no need to make it a big deal or go philosophical about it, you can just say GG back or simply hop to the next match, damn
It doesnt bother me much, i just think to my self how stupid can you be to believe this lie that you are telling yourself.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416685#Comment_3416685
Part of playing survivor is that you will die some games. It's not a big deal.
I mean this conversation is pretty pointless if you dont adress the topic. Water makes things wet is a neat thing to know but you didnt ask for it nor does it make sense to mention it here.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416654#Comment_3416654
I'm trying to explain to you that nothing that occurred is wrong. Defending the hook and choosing to go after the unhooker are both valid tactics killers can chose to play. Killers select the hook for the reason that they can pick a spot that is easy to pressure.
Being hooked in a dead zone is not meant to be safe for you.
Where did I say that something wrong occured in that game? My point is its objectively not a good game. Nothing happened besides people getting tunneled out of the game. Period.
What I could have done to make this game even more boring is hide so nobody has fun for 4 minutes.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416496#Comment_3416496
Do you purposefully injure yourself just so you can get Bite the Bullet value?
Do you purposefully let yourself get hooked and let your teammates get hooked just to get Kindred value?
In the off chance you run Unbreakable, do you purposefully go down just to get value out of it?
I dont have to be injured to get value out of Bite the bullet. I can heal others, but even then perk doesnt prevent the injury. Idk what MMR you are playing at where no survivors get injured.
How can purposefully let my teamates get hooked. If I get hooked others get some value, even if I get tunnel it provides value.
No, but i literally mentioned why unbreakable is way stronger than BR or DH. Even If I get picked right away, because of increased recovery speed I get more survival points. So it creates value even in the worst scenario.
Worst case scenario BR and DH create 0 value, even Aces perk that increases luck has more value than these perks since I have higher chance of Kobe'ing
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@Crowman said:
Besides the fact this topic is in the wrong subforum,
"How do people think that the match was "GG" if all they did was gens and leave?"
The killer's goal is to kill survivors. The killer found an opportunity for a kill by taking advantage of a dead zone and took it. Survivors don't just walk pass gens 90% completed, because it would be fairer to the killer to work on the gen with the lowest progress.
Yeah I might have been in the feedback section when I made the post.
Ok, counter argument would you want to play as a killer and this is the match you are going to recreate every time. Hook, go out wait for the unhook, go for unhooker, until the match ends. If the answer is no what are you trying to explain to me while the question is how is this good game.
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@Milo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416474#Comment_3416474
To the second point its not really the same for every other perk. If every perk required you to get hooked to get any use of it then sure, but it doesnt. You can attempt to use stake out and then get tunneled out of the game. You cant attempt to use those perks before getting tunneled out of the game.Yeah, it's not the same for any passive perk. Any healing, hook or gen reletated perk can be just not used at all in the match depending on how it plays out.
Pointless point
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416425#Comment_3416425
whats your main survivor build
Right now:
Sprint burst, Bond, Kindred and Bite the bullet with medkit (without medkit i might swap bite the bullet for botany knowledge or anything for that matter, alert is also good or self aware [rarely unbreakable if i get slugged alot])
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@Carth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3416429#Comment_3416429
I don't think you understand my point. You're saying a perk that is tied to in game actions to activate(getting hooked, gens getting powered, whatever) is not fair because you need to purposely throw/not play the game normally in order to activate them.
That is not the intent of how you gain those perks, you play normally and get them when you get the (if you do at all).
To your point about tunneling and camping , that's true of any survivor perk though? You could bring stakeout and if the killer hard tunnels you, you aren't going to get any use out of your perk. That's not a problem with each perk but the fact that DBD is designed the way it is.
The two perks in question are designed to help you survive as you get closer to death, not give you a 2-3 layer shield before you even get hooked for the first time.
To your point they are not good enough to be tied to getting hooked. DH would have to stop being exhaustion perk now its worth running, but killer has to deal with exhaustion and then dh. Bloodrush would have to at the very least heal you after 2nd unhook so that you can guarantee have a chance to use the perk (outside of face camping),
To the second point its not really the same for every other perk. If every perk required you to get hooked to get any use of it then sure, but it doesnt. You can attempt to use stake out and then get tunneled out of the game. You cant attempt to use those perks before getting tunneled out of the game.
Those perks are failed designes that seem good in theory, but ultimately fail because tunneling/camping exists. (If you couldnt tunnel/camp before last gen is done, then maybe you could have a case that these perks are good enough)
The fact remains if you want to use the perks that you bring into the match you are bound to ######### to get use out of them and they are not good enough to be considered situational like unbreakable. And if you are bringing then just in case you get to use them you might aswell bring adrenaline instead of bloodrush and literally any exhaustion instead of dead hard.
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@ehe said:
Keys with beads+blood amber makes looping a cinch. Toolboxes still obliterate gens. Falshlights provide chase utility while being able to save teammates from death.
that seems useful to me, but keys should get a rework because thats really all they do.
Well the point of the post was more that items by themselves are pretty meh outside of medkits and flashlights. So you need good addons to make them good not even op and thats the case for toolboxes, keys and flashlights. On medkits you basically have to use rare/ultra rare addons (because everything else doesnt change much)
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@Carth said:
By this logic noed and no way out force you to let survivors also complete five gens to get value I guess? I can't recall the last time I thought "oh man better not hook this person so I can get noed value maybe" however.
If you want to compare it to noed, noed would no longer be a hex perk instead it would make your first swing after 5 gens are finished apply exposed (whether you hit or not). You cant let survivors whatever otherwise you wont get any use out of No way out.
You can literally be tunneled out of a game and have 0 change to use them, but you need to be hooked twice to get full potential of the perks.