AmpersandUnderscore
AmpersandUnderscore
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612519#Comment_3612519
The self heal at normal heal speeds made spreading apart even stronger. And people would bring maps with totems on different levels so the killer would also have to go up meanwhile they could self care on the base level.
So instead of searching for totems, spending time blessing, traveling, and bringing a nearly useless map...
You've now got survivors spending 100% of that time on gens and bringing toolboxes.
I'm not arguing that being healthy is helpful, but the trade off with the healing changes was that all that time that used to be spent healing is now just spent doing gens. Especially at the start of the game, that time was absolutely beneficial for killers, and it was traded for even more time later in the match as people ran around trying to heal (and still not doing gens).
The healing nerf is directly responsible for quite a lot more gen efficiency. The one thing it didn't do is make survivors 'waste time healing', which is what killers were hoping for with the nerfs.
That's not how healing nerfs like this have ever worked in this game, and banging out gens with resilience and adrenaline was literally meta before coh came out. We're just back to that again, which was honestly the obvious result of the healing nerfs.
ETA: it wasn't normal healing speeds, this is a very common misconception. There was a 50% bonus to healing, but the self care effect has a built in 50% penalty to healing. The net result is that survivors spent a bit over 21 seconds self healing in the boon, since the total bonus with just circle was 75%. That 21 seconds doesn't include any hunting, travel, or setup time.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612327#Comment_3612327
CoH wasn't even a side objective. Being able to self heal at the speed of a normal heal was just busted and even with the 50% nerf to it before the SC nerf.
You're completely disregarding the setup time.
The 14-28 seconds of blessing time, hunting for a totem, and the travel time to and from the boon were all time spent *voluntarily* not doing gens at the very start of the game. Usually with multiple survivors doing this instead of gens.
Killers demanded the healing nerfs, and fully expected survivors to waste time healing each other. Instead survivors recognized that it's a waste of time, and have all this free time saved by not blessing towns any more. All that extra time is spent on gens currently.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610531#Comment_3610531
For the last time you are just wrong "Regarding your idea - wont matter. If someone does not want to play, they wont play. They might just eat the DC-Penalty or will AFK for 5 minutes."
There are systems you can put in place that don't allow that behavior, you can argue it all you want but that is just fact. Many other games have those systems and all of those aspects can be implemented into dbd just the same, the genre/type of game dbd is changes nothing.
Even if they don't stop people from trolling until they get hooked 3 times in a row the simple act of removing the suicide option deters people from wasting their own time doing essentially nothing. They could just play it out and lose the same amount of time in their own minds.
You delete suicides and the overall trolling rate goes down by default.
Majority of suicides I see from the survivor pov is unwarranted and throwing a game that is survivor favored 65/35 as it stands in the moment they first attempt.
As always I think tunneling and camping should be dealt with properly but that won't do as much as you think it will.
People will just afk at the base of the hook, or even chase the killer. And you lose things like altruistically giving up on hook to allow your last standing teammate a chance at hatch.
The hilarious thing to me is that reducing tunneling would also cut down on giving up. Whenever tunneling is mentioned, the general sentiment is 'you can't punish killers, you have to incentivize them to tunnel less'. Then we get to something like this and the sentiment is 'oh it's survivors? Punish and perma ban them until it stops'.
Entity forbid that the meta gameplay actually be fun and people get to play the game. If you've designed a game where one team is explicitly designed to lose, and losing also gives a ######### gameplay experience, then I'm sorry but the gameplay is the only thing to look at here and the design sucks.
And for the record, that statement about wanting fun gameplay despite a crappy meta experience applies to both killers and survivors. The designed to lose part is the only thing that applies to only survivors.
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Casual mode works in games like overwatch because the casual players balance out the try hard on the team. If one person decides to play like it's comp, they're likely not going to make a difference in the match as just one of 5 players on the team (unless they just are vastly better, and even quick play has matchmaking).
This doesn't work in DbD, because one team has only one player. If the killer decides to play competitively, the match is competitive. And there's no perk or item bans that will help here because the issue is with base kit mechanics and strategies like camping and tunneling.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611650#Comment_3611650
"right there"
looks at the second picture
Reading is hard. Pictures are difficult too, apparently.
I think a loading screen tip of 'please try not to camp' would be possibly more effective. Which is why I'm not a huge fan of 'base kit' mechanics.
Make anti camp perks effective and the problem solves itself (coughreassurancecough).
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611380#Comment_3611380
I know how to pressure survivors. But the comment "jUsT PResSurE gEnS" has persisted for years. It does not work that way. There is no easy way to slow the game. The only way to stall is to either play for a 3 gen, which is getting nerfed (good thing but still) or play like normal. That however requires you to play against the survivors and if they aren't bad (or at least do the bare minimum) you are in a tough spot.
Gens don't slow down just because you walk around the map. They don't slow down much even when you chase a survivor. 3 survivors still easily outpace you. Hell, one survivor on gens almost outpaces you, if the others are at least somewhat capable.
Now to your suggestions:
Are you mind gaming the appropriate loops?
This is impossible to answer because on one hand, every survivor might fall for different mind games around different loops and on the other hand, you don't get to mind game anyway when the survivor pre drops and makes distance, which is a very popular play style.
Are you breaking pallets from the correct side?
Doesn't matter for most pallets because there are only very few secluded loops. Most connect into at least 2 more on either side. On the ones, that do matter; of course. That is one of the first things you learn as a killer.
Are you familiar with which loops are 'weak' or 'strong' so you can only break the pallets that you need to break?
Again, if the survivor pre drops and maintains distance, it doesn't matter at all, which pallets are weak or strong (as long as they aren't Ormond table level of pallets). Most pallets, you need to break anyway. Even if you can get a hit around a loop in 10 seconds, that is still too much time. It's better to break the pallet after you get the hit / down and then move on, so nobody else can use it. Otherwise you will never create dead zones, which overall doesn't help you speed up chases and puts you in a losing position.
Do you know which breakable walls are helpful or even mandatory to break early? And which ones to avoid breaking as much as possible?
Easy. 90% of them are no brainers and not situational at all. You always know, if you want to break them or not. That is pretty easy to know. The exception are the 2 breakable walls on the second floor of Dead Dawg's main building that open an actual infinite. That can happen to very inexperienced killers. But only once. Because they will remember that.
Are you zoning in general, or just blindly following the survivor in chase?
Pre drop + Shift + W is quite hard to zone. There are no shortcuts for a straight line, as long as you don't sudddenly use a different field to build the room upon, which I'm pretty sure would be considered cheating. 😜 I mean, you'd literally teleport, if you were to use a finite field.
Apart from that, it's one of the first things you need to learn as a killer, so chances are most of us know how to do that. Maybe not the Nurse only players but the rest of us need to follow the rules of this game.
Are you looping tightly or taking very wide corners?
Again, something you need to learn when you start out playing. Otherwise, you'll have trouble catching anyone.
Are you giving them 2.7 seconds of head start in chase?
Yes. Definitely. I always do that. Because 10.8 metres only take take 18 seconds for me to catch up. No big deal and you definitely don't get across the entire map. Come on, this is basic killer knowledge. It's as if you were asking, if survivors stand still until the killer gets the first on them.
And most importantly, are you actually trying to get better at chase, or are you just throwing up your hands and blaming the flavor of the month perk for your problems instead?
Finally, a valid question. I cannot speak for everyone but I try to improve in chase but I also know that there are things you do not counter with skill. Shift + W and pre drops cannot be countered by mind games or a triple spinning backflip over the main building as much as I'd like that. You just run after them until you finally catch up, which often takes too long for me to commit to the chase.
So I end up switching targets a lot and try to apply pressure until something has to give. It works for the most part but when the gens are done in less than 5 minutes, then you don't have much of a chance to win by hooks. Even if you are the most cracked killer in the world, getting 12 hooks in 5 minutes is not realistic.
It is true though, that some people (on both sides) will always find a perk, killer, addon, item, map or whatever else to blame their own mistakes on, which greatly holds them back.
My questions aren't really for you per se. I'm trying to give helpful tips to anyone who would be reading the thread and struggling.
Most of those suggestions are completely mind blowing for many of the players on this forum because, as you seem to agree, the fact that people aren't trying to improve is probably the biggest issue plaguing the game, and there's no real good solution for that either.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611485#Comment_3611485
But then everyone complains that killers don't "earn" their perks by already being good enough to win without them.
I've not heard people in large numbers complaining that a hook requirement for pop and pain res isn't 'earning' the perk. (Usually it was that the perk is getting too much value)
Not 'earning' your perk was during the gen kick meta, where call of brine, Eruption, and overcharge had the 'cost' of kicking a gen, could literally be applied to every gen on the map at once without ever getting into chase, and the cooldown was basically non-existent. Even with blast mine, a meme perk, the devs seemed to understand that having a condition up front before you could even use or apply the perk at all was a good thing.
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@Pulsar said:
I feel like it's worth pointing out that a lot of people conflate gen perks with gen regression perk.
Imo, the best build is PGTW, Corrupt, PR and either NOED or NWO.
I feel like YMMV with something like that.
Most of the killers who post here are already running 3-4 slowdown perks, but they lack the game sense, experience, and/or skill to make effective use of them.
Like discussions about kicking gens mid chase (giving survivors a free head start), or literal video of people wandering the map blindly because they brought nothing for information. Just slapping on lethal would save a ton of killers the 45-60 seconds they spend being useless at the start of the match (while survivors do gens, shockingly).
Pop and pain res are great perks, but if the player is playing with their feet and getting a hit every 2 minutes, there's absolutely better perks that won't be a dead slot.
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@Astel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611398#Comment_3611398
I think that damaging generator is the small objective for bigger objective, which is the final goal of the killer: sacrificing survivors. This means killers should not let survivors escape. How does survivors escape? By repairing gens. How will you stop survivors doing this? By regressing gens.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611401#Comment_3611401
Personally I think breaking walls and pallets are also part of the objectives since it is the natural process of chasing survivors. And the reason why escaping/sacrificing survivors give the highest points would be because it is the ultimate and final goal for themselves.
You're misunderstanding.
I'm using 'objective' to mean 'the primary goal that everything you do in game should be aimed towards'. In that sense, pallets (and gens) are not the most important thing in the world for the killer. Everything the killer does should be helping them kill survivors, and everything survivors do should be helping them escape.
It feels like you're using 'objective' as 'something you can do in the game'. Which is just an 'activity', not a goal.
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@Astel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611380#Comment_3611380
I mean, why you got score event for damaging generator then if gens are not objectives for killers?
You also get points for breaking walls and pallets. Points aren't just for objective events.
You get *the most* points for escaping as survivor and sacrificing survivors as the killer.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3611086#Comment_3611086
Gen rushing starts when survivors go from the hook straight to the gen, without healing.
When in doubt about the gray zones, its best to go by the official dev notes. Which i posted above.
Hell, i´ve had 2 matches where the killer camped and the meter filled rather quickly. Even when he was further than 5 meters away.
I guess the only way to effectivly solve this dispute, would be to see the actual match. As we don´t know if a teammate was nearby, which caused the meter to fill slower. Or the killer wasn´t as close as 5 meters away, or...
You're in luck, while it isn't this exact game, there's another post with screenshots of the mechanic failing to do it's job:
@Rudjohns said:
Killer literally camp the survivor
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8Y84M4SGDEDM/vlcsnap-2023-12-15-14h09m43s205.png
I ran away for their progress bar to fill up faster
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V3FBUOVYHXGD/vlcsnap-2023-12-15-14h10m01s983.png
Teammate still died because, well, maybe I wasn't far enough. Also, other survivors were repairing the lobby gen by the counter. Flawless mechanic
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VEN3U0CH6Q1M/vlcsnap-2023-12-15-14h10m37s242.png
10/10
Interesting to me, how people want to hand wave and dismiss in this post, but there's a suspicious silence when someone actually posts pictures of the killer next to the hook.
Go post there.
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@Xernoton said:
In the last survivor games I played, I escaped a bit more than 60% of the time (all gates) and the matches we lost were almost always because we ended up in a 3 gen. A 3 gen that the killer didn't defend from the start be we rushed ourselves into. 1 was a pretty damn good Huntress with Pain Res and Deadlock, who got someone hooked in the basement.
Now, those killers weren't top tier players but we weren't either and I am still pretty bad at looping. We somehow managed to outpace the killer nearly every match though. I only brought one med kit and I used some off meta builds (even got 3 adepts).
The sample size wasn't large though, so I'll only say that it felt pretty good. With more games this might change.
Edit: Someone please let me in on how to pressure gens! In over 2.4k hours I have never met a gen I could pressure (one time I even kicked the same gen over and over again the entire match). These things really have nerfs of steel.
You don't pressure gens. You're the killer, not the saboteur, and gens aren't your objective. Survivors are the objective. You pressure survivors, not gens.
And I know this is just a snarky comment on your part, but in case you or anyone else reading this actually wants to know, you pressure survivors by staying in chase, and closing chases quickly.
Staying in chase you can use perks like BBQ, lethal, or another info perk of choice. If you have no information you are wasting time going the wrong way.
Closing out chases quickly is mostly a game sense and experience issue. There are guides for pretty much all of these:
- Are you mind gaming the appropriate loops?
- Are you breaking pallets from the correct side to pressure survivors into dead zones (ie giving them a zone wall side or letting them run into the map)?
- Are you familiar with which loops are 'weak' or 'strong' so you can only break the pallets you actually need to break?
- Do you know which breakable walls are helpful or even mandatory to break early? And which ones to avoid breaking as much as possible? (Dead dawg and Midwitch)
- Are you zoning in general, or just blindly following the survivor in chase?
- Are you looping tightly or taking very wide corners?
- Are you giving them 2.7 seconds of head start for no reason by kicking gens mid chase? (Or even weak/loopable pallets mid chase)
- And most importantly, are you actually trying to get better at chase, or are you just throwing up your hands and blaming the flavor of the month perk for your problems instead of trying to improve?
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610681#Comment_3610681
I'm saying there's no reason for AFC to work in the event that the chased survivor leads the killer to a hook. A different survivor should be attempting the unhook.
This entire thread is about hook grabs.
You've admitted that AFC doesn't stop this, so to answer your initial post... if hook grabs existed here you'd have the exact same scenarios we had a few months ago before hook grabs were removed and AFC was implemented. BHVR decided they wanted killers to chase and not camp, so they implemented both.
That's the answer to your original question.
There's also nothing in 'the survivor should run away' that prevents the killer from just doing this with every survivor who comes along. You just seem to want free pressure for doing literally nothing at the hook, which is exactly why these changes were made in the first place.
Go chase survivors, that's what BHVR is trying to encourage. They don't even care if it's the same survivor (ie tunneling) but camping hooks or gens is not the gameplay they're looking to incentivize. Which is why they keep investing in mechanics to discourage killers from doing these things excessively.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610665#Comment_3610665
If a killer follows a survivor to the hook, of course AFC wouldn't proc since that's not camping.
Yes.
And you're arguing that the killer should also have hook grabs in this scenario.
Which is why I'm saying both need to exist together or the system does actually nothing.
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610524#Comment_3610524
So if you remove the ability to maybe pull yourself off hook maybe once every ten games, people will lose all hope and quit the game entirely?
What about the 97.43% chance that if you're sitting there on the hook, one of your teammates is going to unhook you?
Letting people try and unhook themselves doesn't give them hope. It gives them a way to screw over their teammates in a way that they can't get punished for. After you do all the rounding, that's all it does.
You didn't read my post at all.
Tunneling makes it so people don't get to actually play the game. If you're first hooked, you're very, very likely to be tunneled out, making a lot of players just decide to go next, because they were unlucky enough to be found first and don't actually get to play the game.
I'm addressing the root cause of giving up, which includes hook attempts. If you try to just remove the 4%, people who want to give up will go afk at the base of the hook and you've solved literally nothing.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3610655#Comment_3610655
The AFC would remove the reason hookgrabs were removed... to allow a save attempt in event of face camping.
Both of these are needed. The AFC mechanic doesn't do it's if a survivor and the killer are both standing at the hook, to prevent abuse cases. So if the killer just follows the rescuer to the hook and proceeds to attempt a hook grab, AFC isn't going to allow the save because the survivor is in proximity, and the hook grab could still instantly deny the save.
This would basically be a work around to the AFC mechanic for the killer by just guaranteeing a survivor is by the hook to stop progression. In other words, abusing the system to bypass the entire point of the system.
As a side note, it's always hilarious to me that hook grabs are such a seemingly hot topic. Apparently 'just wait it out' doesn't apply if it's beneficial to the killer.
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@UndeddJester said:
It's one of those annoying problems, where a small section of people create this problem where the rest of us need to be restricted.
The ability to Kobe is something BHVR want to be in the game, and its importance is that there should always be a chance of escape, so that survivors keep trying, otherwise we don't have a game. Killing yourself on hook is also useful for giving hatch... so attempting self unhooks is a basic function available in the game, and placing limitations on it is clunky and awkward.
This solution would be a brute force method of putting a dent in the problem, but it is doing it by completely removing basic functionality from the player... while it would be effective, it's something that doesn't really make sense with our understanding of the game, and whatever timings you set, there is always the risk of an outlier where someone needs to kobe, but can't try. If you try to prevent that you risk the effect being too short to be effective for its intended purpose.
its importance is that there should always be a chance of escape, so that survivors keep trying, otherwise we don't have a game
Exactly this.
The whole game only functions if the survivors have some hope of escaping, which is also why things like hatch exist. It's a reason to keep playing a lost game. If survivors lose hope of escape, they give up more.
If you really want survivors to stop giving up on hook they need and actual chance to play the match. Ironically, the biggest thing that could be done to combat giving up on hook is to reduce the effectiveness of tunneling. Most of these instances are people who realize that the first player down just doesn't get to play that match at all and it's time to go next.
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This isn't even spite, it's literally the best/only play you can make at that point.
You can only crawl around or stand still. Staying still means the killer knows exactly where you are and gives you the worst possible chance of finding hatch.
Crawling away means the killer has to look for you, giving you more time to get hatch.
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@Rudjohns said:
The nerf of distortion is
Killer has no aura reading add-on, perk or power? The survivor is playing the match with 3 perks
Don't forget that any stealth killer basically prevents you from getting tokens back.
The only way you're getting tokens against, say, wraith is if you're in chase or just lurking near the killer while they chase someone else.
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I checked off like 4 different spots on my bingo card with this one.
For future reference, it's spelled 'TuNnElLiNg GeNs'.
You can also save a ton of words at this point and instead of complaining that survivors are injured, just complain that they don't start out on hook at the start of the match. Since apparently 'healthy' and 'injured' aren't allowed for any reason any more.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605464#Comment_3605464
I'm not quite sure, if this is even considered a case for the killswitch. It's not technically game breaking in the sense that you still get to play the game, just at a considerable disadvantage.
Regardless, I definitely hope they will killswitch it as soon as possible because this is certainly a pain to play against.
The devs have stated directly that the kill switch is supposed to be for things that can create unintended considerable imbalances in gameplay. It's just that they're incredibly inconsistent at applying the kill switch at all.
There was a bug where nurse could soft lock and freeze, completely unable to move or interact, and they kill switched her for 6 weeks until they could apply the fix, but a nearly identical bug for twins was left in the game for about 3 months without kill switching them.
Same thing with the merciless storm bug that was literally deleting the entire gens progress when you actually hit the skill checks. Never kill switched, but was in game for I think 8 weeks or so.
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I'll make the same comparison I did when Eruption was meta.
Blast mine had to be earned to even activate, can only affect one gen at a time, times out and can be wasted completely, and you have to earn it again whether it's used or not.
Eruption was always active, could affect every gen on the map at once (and often did), never expired even if the gen reached 0, and the joke of a 'cooldown' was up by the time the downed survivor was hooked.
These kinds of stuns are not even remotely close to the same. Good riddance to incapacitation, it should never be a part of a perk ever again.
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@Azulra said:
Why are y'all still complaining about this? Never looked at the new roadmap for DBD updates/changes?
Even putting in a mechanic to combat 3 genning doesn't necessarily mean people will stop doing it entirely. Especially since we have no info on what their 'solution' is yet.
It'd be nice if the killer wasn't designed around/for exactly this play style.
No one wins here. Survivors don't want to be held hostage for an hour, and killers want a skull merchant variant that is better in chase than camping. There's no 'Skull merchant 3.0 rework' on the road map, so it's valid criticism.
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I'll be honest, I don't really have high hopes for the 3 gen solution.
Realistically, they can't make a base kit feature too strong or it could cause problems whenever the system detected a 3 gen incorrectly.
The actual solution will likely be some kind of diminishing return on gen kicks, so like 20 kicks with no one being downed will start having reduced effectiveness or something.
But cynically, the community will still complain about even that and the version that goes live will be changed to 50 kicks and the counter resets on any injury or using your killer power. Or something like that.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606566#Comment_3606566
It's kinda funny how you posted the official pickrates BHVR themselves shared that almost completely matched the Top 10 pickrates on NL during that time except for Self-Care/Kindred and the order of some perks but then you said NL isn't a good source for statistics... Sure there are variables and not every single number should be taken as a fact on there but pickrates of perks specifically were mostly pretty accurate with a couple of small differences.
I mean, this is called confirmation bias.
If you look at the perks that nightlight misses, it's not just wrong, it's very wrong.
Nightlight doesn't have self care (#6) even in the top 10, so instead of the actual pick rate of ~15%, it's somewhere less than 8.7%. That's an incredibly large miss to just toss out or ignore.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
I don’t understand what’s so challenging about adding a voice chat in the survivor games. Just make it so only the survivors hear each other and the killer can’t hear anything. Don’t give me this excuse of breaking immersion cause one game actually does this better.
Texas Chainsaw Massacre game has built in voice chat for both sides but it’s balanced cause the family can’t hear the survivors talking only the survivor side can hear each other.
why can’t we just copy what TCM is doing and it will easily fix solo que
The biggest obstacle is the technical limitation. DbD wasn't coded with built in voice chat, so adding it after the fact isn't just a few lines of code, it's a complete overhaul to core game systems that won't be easy, cheap, or fast.
TCM gets away with it because they built the core game with it initially.
There's also an issue where I believe some regions require in game communication to be monitored and/or censored. With text chat, it's easy to save chat logs. With voice, you're either recording everything (lots of storage) or transcribing everything to text (which is technically complicated).
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606043#Comment_3606043
Their objective is to stop survivors from powering the gates and kill them. That 2nd line doesn't really make any sense...
By the 60 minute mark, the entity is killing the survivors because the killer has failed to complete their objective.
Stopping the survivors from powering the gates isn't a killer objective. You can still 4k while the gates are fully open (see: blood warden and other end game builds).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605708#Comment_3605708
ehh, I think the main issue is that when survivors do it, most of the time, they are at a safe enough distance to do it. It's possible mid chase because it's a near instant tap where you lose very little distance. In some loops, it's easy to throw in a gen tap while you're running from side to side. If you could get a free hit at every gen tap, I don't think you'd see as many complaints.
You're still losing chase time, that's the whole point.
In a game where survivor's meta is to extend chases as long as possible, the survivor voluntarily giving up chase time is valuable to the killer.
And since this applies to the thread as a whole, I can't ever say this enough:
Gens are not the killer's objective, survivors are.
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If you have pictures or video of the match, report the killer.
Having a match where the killer isn't downing, chasing, or hooking for an excessive amount of time is against game rules for holding the game hostage, and can be bannable.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593675#Comment_3593675
I'd argue complaining about Killers nodding or Survivors teabagging is up there as the most petty, not a gameplay feature that allows survivors to stall Killer regression instantly during a chase where they should be feeling more pressure not to get hit.
And yet, there's an inherent cost of chase time that the survivor is giving up to touch the gen. Likely they're taking a hit to do so as well.
That's the cost of literally stopping mid chase to tap a gen, but apparently a free hit isn't enough for some people.
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This basically only applies to the literal best players in the game.
Everyone else will eventually run into someone who is better than they are at the game and lose. That may not take very long, since most of the player base will fall into the 'average player' (or lower) category.
This also applies to the game whether you're playing survivor or killer btw. Last time people posted about win streaks was in July I think, and the solo survivor record was about 40 games, SWF was about 200, and individual killers were anywhere from 140 to 1200+ (ongoing).
The SWF record was literally a comp team, and the top 4 killers were blight, twins, clown, and nurse with over 750 wins each and in that order. But that seems to indicate that those 4 killers are all too strong currently, so I don't think using a measure of simply 'these seem more difficult to beat' is necessarily the metric to use here. Otherwise we're saying twins and clown should be nerfed too, and that seems silly. Similarly you don't nerf SWF, you nerf survivor... So solo q becomes a free win.
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@Xendritch said:
So survivors were too strong in chase so they nerfed MfT
Gens were too fast so they nerfed Prove Thyself
Survivors were healing too effectually so they nerfed CoH
Now we're complaining about stealth perks
What exactly are survivors supposed to run? Like are people not gonna be happy until we're all running useless meme BS like scene partner and pebble?
Until someone actually falls for Pebble. Then it'll be omgwtf overpowered and decried as 'UnCoUnTeRaBLe.
There's only two options for survivors for some people, either: survivors start out on hook already at match start, or survivors must be forced to stand afk in plain sight near gens (but without being able to touch those gens, oh no) until the killer has time to deal with then individually.
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@please_explain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603808#Comment_3603808
Have u ever seen how this guy plays? He tunnels and camp every game if you play dirty ofc you win on killer. News flash not every killer player tunnels at 5 gens some of them understand that this is a video game and not play every match like their life depends on it.
There was a forum post this summer about killer win streaks, you can find that information here:
@Pulsar said:
Thought I'd do something different today. I was in a thread a couple days ago and someone told me that Killers couldn't put together high winstreaks. I showed them a couple, but they called me a liar, essentially.
So I went looking for the longest streaks and then today, when I saw this handy-dandy spreadsheet on Reddit by u/KitchenThroat5939, I decided to post it here and see what you all think of it. Any surprises?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/V1N69P9JQOYM/dbd-highest-winstreaks.jpg
Top streaks being blight, twins, nurse, and clown. Your trapper request is at 148 ish. And this list was posted during the MfT meta.
I'm not sure that 'have you seen how they play' is the gotcha you seem to think it is here either. The two primary factors here are player skill and play style. You can choose not to play a certain way, but that doesn't mean everyone will do that. That's not the game's fault you aren't playing to win, especially if there's a play style that is essentially unbeatable in the right hands (i.e. tunneling like crazy).
That seems to indicate that either that strategy is too strong, or that character is, or possibly both. Making it easier to 4k like you seem to be pushing for is only buffing these strategies, when all actual metrics are saying that something is actually overtuned here.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3602352#Comment_3602352
Do survivors get off a gen 33% done to work on a gen that has 0% progress?
So you're saying a survivor can kick a hook and regress the hook stage back to zero?
These are not comparable objectives, when one is permanent objective and the other is literally meta to slow down, regress, and/or completely undo objective progress.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3602118#Comment_3602118
Exactly their point.
You aren't calling these techs, you are calling them bugs and exploits.
Hug tech for blight is confirmed by the devs to be an unintended bug. As in, their words exactly are that 'it's a bug'.
I can only assume that after a year and a half or more since they confirmed this that the fix is either low priority or difficult.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601773#Comment_3601773
OR there were people who wanted to see how it worked out at its buffed speed without the bug.
Shocking, I know.
Then say that instead.
Because 'sUrViVoRs DeMaNdEd ThE CoOlDoWn AcTuAlLy WorK' is vastly different. Everyone should want the bug fixed in your explanation.
I personally don't think there's any difference in the 0.2 seconds they considered adding briefly, *especially* not something that warrants the amount of crying we've heard about it.
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@Avo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598244#Comment_3598244
Abusing Xenomorph's unlimited cooldown M2 was a good exploit isn't it? Ailen was broken they just added a cooldown, Alien was problematic.
Yeah this garbage of trying to force some narrative that this was 'a demanded nerf' instead of a bug fix where there was literally no penalty is insane to me.
It got fixed back to what was on the PTB, and literally no one complained about it during testing.
People got used to not having a penalty for literally whiffing a shot and are lashing out. That's all this is (with Xeno at least).
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Having a perk that any killer can use to give themselves stealth would literally break the game.
They double nerfed iron will because not heating grunts of pain, while still hearing footsteps and other movement, was apparently too strong.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594363#Comment_3594363
But that's not what it is anymore, is it?
As far as I know, the bnp "only" removes 10 seconds form a Gen permanently.
So why call it insta Gen?
If I got it wrong, I'm sorry.
BNP isn't broken any more.
He's also going back about 7 years to find that version of the item since patch 1.0 was around June 2016 and the patch that nerfed instant BNP (1.5.3) released in July 2017.
In those same patches, Moris in 1.0 used to let you kill a survivor without having to hook anyone, and 1.5.3 forced killers to hook survivors first.
It's some pretty extreme cherry picking, since game balance was wild across the board when the DbD first released.
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Literally everyone complains about map layout and map RNG.
Yet it's surprising that a perk that helps mitigate the impact of that RNG is popular?
You can only run into an area, only to find that 'oops, the map just didn't generate that pallet, so you're in a dead zone lol' so many times before you equip the literal only information perk in the game that can help you avoid that.
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596099#Comment_3596099
at least we agree it's not balanced.
so the counterplay is to create pressure high enough that they can't go for the play? well not all killers, all killer players, all survivor teams, all maps are suitable for that, sometimes you can't establish that high of a pressure. then what? just play blight with broken add ons?
or you just pressure the user themselves which basically translates into tunnelling them. good counterplay 😃 what if multiple people have it?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3596310#Comment_3596310
i'll take a gen rush over some uncounterable "interaction" where i am robbed of my down out of nowhere thank you very much.
'Uncounterable'
You realize FtP only works if the survivor is healthy, right?
Pretty sure injuring survivors is part of... *Checks notes* every killer's base kit.
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ITT: killers complaining that they have 2 survivors in chase at one time.
People are literally begging for a change that will just end up with 3 survivors on gens. Which inevitably means they can go back to complaining about 'gen speeds' and 'survivors should have something else to do other than gens'.
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Planning to 3 gen from the lobby has been a common killer 'strategy' for over a year and a half. I'd go so far as to say it was a meta strat during the CoBruption days.
I don't deny that it can be a survivor issue at times, but it's been far, far more common since 6.1 that killers choose to play PvE gen kick simulator before the game even starts than survivors doing it to themselves.
The 3-gen 'strategy' has been called 'not intended gameplay' by the devs directly, and in many cases is directly against game rules for 'holding games hostage' if the killer refuses to progress the game by hooking for downing survivors (again, according to the devs) and can be bannable.
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A) killers can already force egc by opening the exit gates.
B) killers can force survivors out the open door, or even earn kills during an egc.
C) killers can continue to earn BP around the map even if they don't want to force survivors out.
There are options here.
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It's a PvP game, so inherently the fun part of the game is designed to be 'at the other teams expense'.
But there's a point somewhere between "I'm playing for fun" and "my only goal is to maximize someone's misery or ruin their day" where it kinda stops being reasonable.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592146#Comment_3592146
I remember before boons were a thing so many people were asking for survivors to receive like extra quests. I guess what they meant was they wanted survivors to do things that wasted time (passive slowdown for the killer basically) at no benefit to the survivors. Like rummaging through empty chests or something. They definitely didn’t want boons.
People have asked for a 'second objective' for a long time. But that objective apparently:
- Must be mandatory to escape. (Because we have chests already)
- Can't benefit survivors for doing it. (Tried this with boons)
- Can't be a detriment to the killer in any way (tried this with totems/hexes)
- Can't interact with the killer power (tried this with Singularity, Xeno)
So at this point, 'second objective' is just a different way of saying 'more gens'.
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@Tsulan said:
Most healthy meta would be no meta at all.
Like what we had a couple of months after the meta shake up.
I mean, survivor meta barely changed over the last 5 years.
Killer meta also doesn´t look good. Slowdown perks still make up the biggest chunk of what killers pick.
The only way to get 'no meta' would be perkless and addonless gameplay. Although there would still be a 'meta' because gameplay decisions still come into play. Doing gens is always meta because it's better than opening chests, for example.
Addressing perks specifically, you're entirely backwards. This is almost the exact same list for killers as they gave out as official stats around 6.1. The only new perk is nowhere to hide, and gameplay is still just hard tunneling. The only other meta we've had was one of the unhealthiest things ever with gen kick meta literally holding games hostage. So at least we're back to gameplay instead of that crap.
For survivor perks, 5 of the top 10 have been swapped out from that same comparison time. Gameplay also went from staying healthy with medkits and circle to staying injured. That's a huge meta shift in a short time.
Survivor meta has changed a ton, killer meta has not changed.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591778#Comment_3591778
Ok....
Gen regression is to slow... so rather then kick a Gen we chose to chase someone we see on matter Hook States (cause we can't see them)
We have little way to increase that... giving how they nerfed Gen regression perks
Also Survivors hated the Gen Kick Meta... but look at what we have now
Tunneling was just as prevalent during the gen kick meta.
Gen speed is just an excuse people try to use to tunnel, but tunneling was/is/had always been the most common way to play. Even when killers could literally take games hostage for an hour and stop gen progress almost entirely.
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@fussy said:
Ask players who give up on first hook every third game giving free 4k to killer. I wonder how it is not 70% with this playerbase mentality.
Because this doesn't happen as often as you think it does (globally, for the player base).
If you truly, genuinely think this is affecting BHVR's global statistics, then you should be giving the last survivor hatch in every game.
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@term1n4t0r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591286#Comment_3591286
then why has the usage of this perk sky rocketed from start to now and is a perk most complained about? its broken thats why
The answer to this is because healing got gutted and isn't worth the time anymore. As expected, staying injured went back to being meta, so all of the perks that synergize with staying injured made a huge jump in popularity.
People are fixated on made for this because they think it's the reason it's losing them games (it isn't). But resilience, map information (woo), Adrenaline, and even dead hard all became more popular with the healing nerfs.
I'm sure we'll hear a lot more about how broken all of these are after the MfT nerf goes live.