Adjatha
Adjatha
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2875494#Comment_2875494
Eh, not really. If you can narrow down the locations to a portion of the map, that's still an advantage. Whether its near the surv spawns or the opposite side, is only a matter of traversal time, and some of that might actually be offset by the fact that killer is almost certainly immediately vacating the region of the map where the hexes spawned, if you make them spawn near the killer.
Outside of the relatively rare circumstances where a surv spawns in line of sight of a hex totem, it's really not a big deal. It's really about the RNG of the individual hex spawns.
'Relatively Rare'? Have we played the same game? Hexes go down within the first 30 seconds of a match all the time.
It feels like I'm surrounded by crazy people. How can I spell out "hexes that don't get snuffed in the first 18 seconds of the match are better than ones that do"?
- Survivors do not get Lethal Pursuer. They do not know precisely where the killer spawns.
- Survivors do not know if a killer has a hex until they see some effect from that hex.
- Survivors are not going to drop everything to go search where they THINK the killer started for a hex instead of jumping onto generators.
- Even if survivors THINK there might be a hex and go to search right at the start of the match, that's going to bring them up against the killer almost immediately and they'll get chased right from the get-go.
- Even once survivors DO know that a hex is in play, they are going to have to still spend time searching for it, which is some amount of time not on generators.
The amount of backwards logic in this thread is mindboggling.
"If you can narrow down the location, it's an advantage."
Is that MORE advantageous than starting next to it and just popping it? No!
"If we bring four hexes, the 'spawn away from survivors' logic won't work!"
Yeah, no kidding. If you bring 4, you're expecting hexes to go down. there aren't 4 good hex spawn points on ANY map. If you bring that many, you're either playing wrong or you're taking protection hexes, at which point it doesn't matter where they go.
"If hexes don't spawn next to survivors, they'll know not to check where they started."
If it was near them, to begin with, it would've been snuffed half a minute into the match! The point is that they have to go out into the map to look for it. That means not working on gens and exposing yourself to being caught out in the open.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2875494#Comment_2875494
It's "MIGHT spawn directly next to survivor" versus "ALWAYS spawning away from survivors". The consistency would make hex spawns not even slightly uncertain, which is materially worse than them being only kind of uncertain.
Except, you won't know if there IS a hex or not at the start of the match. Survivors are going to split up and go onto gens like normal. If they then become aware of a hex, they have to leave gens to go looking. Even if they have a rough ideal where they need to look, it's still time taken going towards the killer and possibly exposing themselves to chases.
The idea that survivors are going to start every match by just running straight for the killer's spawn point to search for a hex that may or may not be there is absurd.
In EVERY case, not having a chance for your hex to spawn on top of a survivor is superior.
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"Hexes always spawning far away from Survivors" is somehow a worse situation than "Hexes spawning directly next to survivors"?
Boy, that sure is some kind of a logical leap.
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Should be 0 breakable walls, but let the killer break most/all of the fence vault spots (without adding more of them).
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Pyramid Head by far.
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"Designed By Committee"
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"Stay in groups of 2 instead of splitting up 4 ways"
Oh my gosh what a horribly overpowered killer with no counterplay what-so-ever! Expecting survivors to use the BUDDY system? Impossible! Nerf Twins immediately!
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If Plague's puke actually registered hits like it's supposed to, you'd see a lot more of her.
There is nothing more frustrating than letting a full charge loose on a point-blank survivor and they walk away without any infection at all.
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Every killer action/power has some kind of built-in cooldown, slowdown, recovery, animation lock. Putting a cool down or delay in on Survivor actions, such as trying to crouch immediately after standing back up would be the easiest answer to these things.
That said, it will never happen.
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Twins should be dead last on this list. Every other killer has great design and captures some element of some aspect of horror. The art team for this game is the most consistent of everyone working on it.
The one exception is Twins. They're not scary, they're not grotesque. They're not creepy or iconic or even memorable. They're just two sad, dumpy French peasants. The worst visual design of anyone in this game, by a country mile.
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Should probably swap Oni and Twins, and Spirit and Pyramid Head.
Oni's power is 100% in the control of the survivors. At high enough MMR, they have to screw up royally for you to even get going. Twins, however, has the biggest snowball potential in the game. That being, said, there are a ton of Free, Instant Heal perks, so... actually, you're probably right. Unless CoH dies, Twins ARE C-D tier (outside of Competitive DbD, where heal perks are banned vs Twins).
Spirit got hella nerfed, but super pro players can still get A-tier performances out of her. She's not S anymore, but she can still put up a good game. PH, on the other hand, is just a worse, closer-range Huntress. His whole deal is hard-countered by survivors paying even the slightest attention to the insane number of warning tells his power gives out. His torment is 100% avoidable, and even if somebody does get tormented, an organized survivor group can just completely shut down your 'tunnel them out' by having the All Second Chance guy be the designated Runner. And that's to say nothing of the fact that he gets nearly zero benefit from his entire Add On selection.
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If that number is accurate, that would mean that, at it's peak, Steam players accounted for 5% of DbD's playerbase.
I know they GAVE THE GAME AWAY FOR FREE for a good while there, but that seems a bit off to me. Hey, if they're getting 2 million people playing it across all platforms, good for them.
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Hopefully it'll be down until somebody takes an axe to most of the fence vault spots and uses the wood to board up all the 2nd story windows.
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The programming team couldn't get more than two zombies to navigate around the game's maps without crashing the whole thing. They settled on two and even THOSE get caught up on invisible geometry or something all the time.
Is it any surprise that game-breaking bugs are constantly being introduced, even in things that ostensibly were not actually touched in that patch?
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The single best thing that could happen for this game, on both sides, is for killers to be able to hit survivors faster.
Easier to apply damage means that healing is less of a problem. Easier to down survivors means less of a reason to camp and tunnel. Easier for survivors to get hooked means gens go slower. Wider spread of damage means survivors get more points in non-objective categories.
God pallets, too many pallets, too large maps, too strong loops, too many second chance perks, too easy healing, too easy running away... survivors THINK these are good for the game. What they are good for is high skill SWF teams. They are poison for solo queue survivors because they force killers to either accept 0K games that end in 5 minutes, or they force killers to camp and tunnel, which overwhelmingly harms the solo experience.
No chase should take longer than 60 seconds, no matter how skilled the survivor is, what perks they run, or what map you're on. But rather than thinking of game health, the Devs were contemplating REMOVING Bloodlust. If anything, they should be doubling down on it! The only other option is massive map reworks across the board (which they already did, very poorly).
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There have been SO MANY log in rewards, bonus BP events, free cosmetics, and so forth since MMR and CoH came out.
Throwing everything at the wall to try to normalize the miserable state of the game, rather than admitting that mistakes were made.
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@SuzuKR said:
Stats on just slowdown vs without wouldn’t give enough info by itself. Less-experienced/skilled players would struggle a lot more to combat it than very experienced/skilled-players. Also, different types of slowdown can be good or bad depending on things like map size/structure, coordination of survivors, toolboxes/gen progress speed-up perks, etc.
For instance, Deadlock is impossible to avoid, but it also prevents regressing the gen, which means it can buy less time than something that regresses a gen potentially. Stuff like Ruin can be destroyed at any point in the game which would also skew results (eg, games where Ruin is destroyed in first 14 seconds versus lasts for a lot of the game). Also things like Pop can be unhelpful for big maps/quick gen progress if a killer physically can’t get there in time (too big of a map/no mobility/powering through the gen with PT/etc). Some slowdown perks are crap and others are great.
There would need to be dozens of adjustable factors/graphs displaying all said differences to be able to draw any meaningful conclusions at all. Just one would be basically as useless as the complete overall kill rate stats BHVR posts (which they themselves recognize and always disclaimer the stats with).
Good news: They have MMR values now. So they can sort all the raw data into player tier sets to make it more meaningful
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Despite all of this guy's posts being trolls, I actually agree that checking kill/escape rates on killers who run regression perks versus those who do not would be a good idea.
There's an old statement from the old Dev team that amounts to 'If killers feel like they are required to run slow down or regression perks, that's a problem and we have to do something about it.'
Well, here we are. Sluzzy's little troll post raises a great point: Exactly what ARE the win rate differences between running a bunch of slowdown versus those killers who run no slowdown?
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@Chadku said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2846564#Comment_2846564
Issue is that there aren't that many killer players of your MMR level, MMR being ignored if you waited for long or got lobby dodged.
Ofc the SBMM is awful in comparison to the old grade system/other games.
It's almost as if the game is too difficult for survivors at low MMR and too difficult for killers at high MMR and core game mechanics like skill check challenge or bloodlust timers ought to scale off your MMR, rather than being exactly the same for everyone at every skill level!
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@[Deleted User] said:
There are a shocking number of players who think she "ignores game mechanics" as if she doesn't have her own unique set of mechanics. And if you try to explain Nurse counterplay to people, they'll move the goal posts and say "...but a *good* Nurse". Half of it is literally running away sooner and not greeding a 40% gen against a killer who can cover 20 meters
That kind of a mindset was exactly why Spirit got nerfed, though.
"She has no counterplay! She's stupid-easy to use! No skill! Free wins! Broken OP!"
And not one of those people ever actually played her. They never saw how incredibly difficult tracking by sound actually is. How easy it was for survivors to fake-out, juke, and run down your phasing. How much skill it takes to be able to predict where scratch marks are going and where the survivor actually is in relation to the wild swarm of garbage.
But no. People just complained a ton and Spirit got pretty heavily nerfed. She WOULD'VE got even harder nerfed, but one of the intended nerfs bugged out and the Devs took too long to fix it before the stats came back to show that, yeah, the current nerfs do plenty to gut her.
tl;dr - Whining about killers has an unreasonably high success rate in effectuating nerfs, so people will keep doing it forever.
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@SuzuKR said:
The entire reason it’s hidden is to prevent elitism over it.
That's certainly what they said. But it's also pretty laughable and clearly shows that the Dev team has no idea how MMR works in any competitive game.
People will definitely say "Ha ha I'm Jade 7 and you're only Tungsten 13" but who cares? Why do the Devs suddenly care about player feelings getting hurt when they aggressively ignore teabagging and post-game verbal abuse?
You need to be able to see your own ranking to see some progress or growth. It's an encouraging element, trying to reach Platinum 1 and a somewhat comforting feature to know "well, I'm Silver 3, but I'm consistently, Silver 3, so that must be my skill level. At least I'm not getting worse."
The REAL reason is that if you could see everyone's MMR rating, you could see, at a glance, when the MMR is being thrown out to just get games going faster (which, as anyone will tell you, is ALL THE TIME). That was the primary complaint people had with the grade matching system: it'd put new players with pros and you could point to the end game screen and say "look, the system is bad." So they replaced it with MMR, which is just as bad, but doesn't have any transparency at all.
Sweeping your messes under the rug doesn't actually count as fixing them.
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@GamerEzra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2846388#Comment_2846388
I don't know what you are trying to say but if you think I'm a whining survivor main you are more then wrong. If that's really what you think you should read the full post before making bait comments. I'm a killer main myself and I loved playing Deathslinger before the horrible nerf. I'm just asking a question.
The fact that I didn't quote you should've been a pretty good indicator that I was not directing anything specifically at you.
I'm referring to the fact that we have three categories of killer: Bad, Was-Good-Got-Nerfed, and Soon-To-Be-Nerfed.
So why would anybody be surprised that people predominately play the Still Good category, instead of the Always Awful and the Freshly Awful options?
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You only play against a small handful of killers? Weird! It's almost as if 1/3rd of the game's killers are objectively awful and another 1/3 have gotten savagely nerfed.
But don't worry: plenty of people are asking for the members of the final 1/3rd to get nerfed too. So it's a race to the bottom. When, finally, EVERY killer is horrible, there will be no reason to only play the 3-4 guys with any actual effectiveness.
There will also be no reason to play at all. But, you know. Sacrifices must be made to coddle the least skilled, loudest survivors.
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The game went from 100,000 active players down to fewer than 50,000.
Even assuming the core player base is going to keep playing, you've got to ask: WHY did half the people who got the game to play with Leon, Jill, and Nemesis leave? Retaining your core players is good, but there was a tremendous spike in player interest that went up, then went away.
SOMETHING is wrong with the game, if that many people decide that DbD just isn't enough fun to spend their time on.
SOMETHING ought to be changed or fixed or improved, or the game just isn't going to keep new players onboard.
Maybe you think the game is dying. Maybe you think the game is fine. But DbD had a gigantic surge of player interest and lost it all in a few months. Surely we can all agree: that's not a good look.
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Regardless of what sport you compare DbD to, MMR needs to have about 10x more nuance than it currently does.
If you get dunked on, the game shouldn't automatically try to dump you against some 0 hours survivors. And if you happen to get a 4k, it shouldn't rocket you up to teams with 90% 4-man escape rates. The point of a rating system is to make micro adjustments as you play one match to the next, so things shake out into a comfortable middle ground, where all the best players play each other, the bad/new players play each other, and everybody else lands somewhere in between, tweaking up or down slightly as they improve (or worsen). The current system is basically an On/Off switch of Pro/Potato.
To use a sports metaphor: you don't get a shot at the Stanley Cup, just because you won your first game. It should take time, hard work, and tons of skill before you're in the finals, to play against the best the game has to offer.
Of course, that's just part of the problem. The REAL problem is that matchmaking just throws out MMR more often than not. If they were going to prioritize matchmaking time so much more than MMR, then there was no reason to waste all the time, money, and effort making a system to replace the grade-matching one. Current, MMR is a DISTANT second-though, compared to getting games going. If you want to treat the game like a competitive entity instead of a party game, you have to make MMR matching the absolute priority. And that means (in the current, survivor-buffing & killer-nerfing development cycle) if you're in a team of unkillable survivors, you're going to have to eat 20-30 minute queues because there just aren't enough superstar killer players to match up with.
To use another sports metaphor: If you don't have enough teams in the Major League, you don't match them up against High School teams just to get a game going. You play fewer games. Nobody wants to see the Detroit Redwings obliterate the local Boy's Varsity Ice Hockey team.
NOTE: Yes, I'm aware they want to tweak the 'back-fill' thing. But that's just one of the "queue time is more important than game balance" problems. They need to fix the whole system, top to bottom. And when the find that it takes a hour or more to get a killer capable of handling hyper-pro SWF sweat-squad teams, maybe THEN they'll have the precious data they so crave.
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The stated goal is "2 survivors escape every game."
That means that the Devs want all 5 gens to be finished EVERY SINGLE GAME.
If you have to ask "should generators just be popping constantly?" then just remember this: The Devs do not want a game of back-and-forth any more. They don't believe getting over 6 hooks makes for a good game experience. They WANT you to tunnel one survivor out of the game, then capture a second on in EGC and just camp them while the other two leave.
The current state of the game is what they've built it to be and they're not willing to admit that they've made (and keep making) terrible decisions that erode the fun the game used to have.
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Sadako is what happens when 1 member of the the dev team has an idea for the power, and then the whole rest of the team spend all their time coming up with ways to make the power weaker.
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Killers CONSTANTLY get nerfed for being 'too easy.' Holding W to just run away and using every pallet to slow down the killer takes zero skill and is incredibly effective. With the speed gens go at, killers either have to abandon chases and let you go free, or commit to it, and lose 2-4 generators before they hit you for a second time.
Basically, the maps are built so poorly that the literal easiest survivor play is often times the best one. This is why it's seen as being 'bad.' Not that it's bad for you to do, but rather, that it is bad that the game has been built in such a way that the technique requiring the least skill is the most effective move. It's not 'bad survivor play.' It's 'bad game design.'
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Every breakable wall should knock out a strong loop. Putting doors in that actually make loops BETTER for survivors is so backwards that it's mind-boggling.
The fact that you NEED a door on Badham or the basement to spawn there or the survivors cannot be hooked doesn't mean the main building needed doors (that help survivors turn that loop into a god loop). It means that Badham's basement needs a hook in it.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2842030#Comment_2842030
By that logic, shouldn't survivors go against really bad sadakos as well so they can learn to face her? The game consists of 2 sides, you can't just ignore 1 side.
The same rules could even apply to survivor.
Brand new survivors SHOULD go up against brand new killers, yes.
Survivors with 2000 hours in the game do not need to learn a new skill set for each killer. But the difference between trying Blight for the first time or trying Trickster for the first time is night and day.
The VERY FEW killers that ask survivors to do literally anything other than their basic gameplay loop have unreasonably high kill rates due to new survivors, not experienced ones. And, as I mentioned, New survivors need low mmr killers.
The game consists of 2 sides, but the two sides do not control equally. Killer controls are explicitly made poorly, while every survivor controls exactly the same, without any of the slow-down, cool down, or throttled movement than killers frequently have.
Don't be fatuous.
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There is zero good reason not to match someone playing a killer for the first time against the lowest MMR survivors.
If they're an experienced killer, they get an easier game to try out the power. Then, if they dominate the game, their MMR kicks way up and they can take the experience to a harder level of competition.
If they're a brand new killer with no experience, they may struggle, they may do okay. Either way, they're at such a low level, that MMR correction won't (in theory) push them into the 2000 hrs SWF Survivors bracket.
And that's to say nothing of THE FACT THAT CHARACTER-SPECIFIC MMR FOR EACH KILLER WAS SPECIFICALLY BILLED AS MAKING IT LESS PUNISHING TO TRY SOMEBODY NEW
They threw out the only good thing that MMR could've done. Every hour and dollar spent on the MMR system was a complete waste if they couldn't figure out that it needs to be there so that they don't ruin somebody's first impression.
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A "Health Patch" is a great idea...
When the state of the game is on an even keel.
When there are numerous gameplay issues that are driving away thousands of players every month? Not so much. You need a "Put out the fires and stop the bleeding" patch.
And that means making some really hard decisions about some unreasonably popular tools. That means reversing a number of wildly misguided decisions your teams made recently. That means giving players reasons to play with the whole cast and tools on both sides with some really aggressive rebalancing. That means Quality of Life improvements that aren't just MORE core survivor buffs in a never-ending quest to get solos and swf at the same level. That means stepping back and asking "how can we make the game a pleasure to control" instead of "how many numbers can we tweak down until the loudest voices stop beating their war drums." It means making gameplay fixes that benefit BOTH sides, not just one at a time.
Survivors using the same 3-6 perks every match is not healthy. Killers being unable to get more than 2 hooks a match and feeling like they need to camp and tunnel to make up for this deficiency, is not healthy. Matches ending in 4-5 minutes isn't healthy. Only have 3 killers that stand any chance against high-skilled survivors isn't healthy. THESE are the kinds of things a health patch needs to be fixing.
Would it be great if they fixed all the many, MANY map spots where killers can't actually walk through spots survivors can? Of course. Or the invisible collision spots attached to trees and walls that arbitrarily block killer powers? Sure. These kinds of bugs would be great to address. But they're not why nearly 4,000 people every month are leaving the game.
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@DoritoHead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2838579#Comment_2838579
I think that they're just fed up with people flooding the front page with posts announcing about how they're leaving the game, so please don't be so harsh. They don't mean to make fun of you.
Well, 26,000 Steam users have quit over the last 7 months, so the actual number of "I quit" posts really isn't all that bad. Imagine if EVERYBODY made one.
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Pyramid Head has the worst addons of any killer in the game. The only ones with any use are the shockwave range ones, and those just train you to misunderstand how far that goes. Everything purple and Iridescent has actually zero in-game benefit, while everything green and lower is both pathetically uninspired AND so miniscule that it is totally imperceptible.
His whole kit needs to be trashed and re-made from the bottom up.
But they never will. Because he's ALSO the most over-hyped yet mysteriously under-played killer on the roster. If you're great at the game, playing Nurse, Blight, or even Twins does way more for you than PH ever could. And if you're not great at the game, the shockwave is so limited and the torment trials so unwieldy that controlling him feels like you're trying to steer a wobbly wheelbarrow. But everyone who DOESN'T play him loves to cluck their tongues and complain how unbelievably powerful his cages are just because they prevent two survivor perks for survivors too lazy to avoid the easily avoidable trails.
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Pyramid Head does have an extra-large proxy terror radius (kind of).
It's called: He's one of the loudest killer from just walking; his power gives crashing sound alerts across half the map when it starts, is active, and finishes; and the single tallest killer model in the game.
You can see and hear him coming from a mile away. And, hilariously, his addons and perks involve "Undetectable," which is completely useless for a killer as huge and noisy as ole PH. How much more warning do you need that he's stumping his way over?
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DbD hit an all-time high (on Steam) mid-way last year. As time has gone on, they've lost all of those gains (on Steam), with more leaving every day. This is in spite of a record number of Blood Hunt events, Daily Log In bonuses, free cosmetics, three different holiday events, two new killers, and an unprecedented number of promo codes.
The questionable way MMR works is certainly one reason. The questionable perks to have come out is another. The questionable killer nerfs is another still. The lack of meaningful response to long-term, ongoing player complains is yet another. The one-sided parade of bugged validation changes. The steady decline of uniqueness in killer powers. The NFT debacle. The muddled design messages. The ongoing plague of cheaters, bugs, and abusive player behavior/speech.
There's no ONE reason why DbD has been hemorrhaging players. SBMM definitely drove away plenty of people who were happy to have a game that very much was focused on a non-competitive, fun time. And while SBMM was SUPPOSED to just put like-skilled people together without changing the soul of the game, that's not what has happened. But changing or even removing SBMM won't fix things. No single change will fix things. There have been a lot of steps lately, and most of them seem to be moving away from solutions, instead of towards them.
I already quit the game. I still check on these forums from time to time, hopeful to see something that will encourage me to return. I haven't seen anything yet and that hope gets dimmer monthly.
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The snare slowdown killed the feel of playing him. It was a tremendous quality of life nerf that was both wildly unnecessary and extremely misguided. That, along with cutting 40% of his max snares out along with 86'ing his best addons just made him both perform poorly and feel bad to play.
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More Bloodrush events in the last 6 months than there were in the first two years of me playing this game. And more free cosmetics. And more log-in bonuses.
Almost like they're doing their best to staunch the bleeding user base every way they can (other than fixing the actual causes).
Well, to everyone who's still playing: enjoy the 1.5x
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Game's frustrating instead of fun. Survivors are disrespectful instead of engaged. Balance disparity between solos and SWF is a joke. Killers keep getting nerfed while survivors keep getting buffed. Map reworks make them uglier, brighter, and more full of endless waves of super safe pallets. MMR has been a complete let down which instead of matching me with a steady supply of medium skill survivors, just kept bouncing me between brand-new survivors and hyper-skilled teams.
Frankly, the whole thing is exhausting.
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Any of the following:
- Bots mode. Doesn't have to be super amazing and I don't even need BP from doing it. Just SOMETHING to practice using killer powers in, since the "killers will have their own MMR so you won't get destroyed when trying a new killer" was completely thrown out the window when MMR actually got put into the game.
- Total overhaul of Pyramid Head's addons. PH has the WORST addons of any killer, hands down. Despite his power getting nerfed several times and all of his perks being reworked, his awful, totally useless addons have never been touched. It's a complete disgrace.
- Reverting recent killer nerfs. I bought Deathslinger and found him a lot more fun to play than Huntress or Trickster. Then, like a week later: his whole power got gutted for no decent reason. What is the point of buying killers if they could get dumpster'd at a moment's notice, with no warning or justification?
- Baking some kind of slowdown into killers by default. This could be kicking gens and actually causing damage (which is what it LOOKS like is happening anyway, and what every new player believes is happening). Or it could be making generators take longer to complete while there are 4 or 5 up, but faster to complete when there's only 1 to 2 left. Or making baseline regression after a killer kicks a generator to be 100% of normal repair speed (instead of 400% slower). Or making survivors with the Exhausted status unable to repair generators till exhausted goes away. Or something. Anything, really. Having 3 pop before the first hook goes out is completely absurd.
- Giving killers a good reason to go chase somebody new, instead of tunneling or camping. This might be that survivors move slower if they haven't been hooked yet. Or killers get a speed boost when chasing healthy survivors who aren't on their last hook. Or bake in Borrowed Time but give the survivor the Broken status after being unhooked, so you don't have to worry about them getting healed up instantly. Or anything really.
- Nerf boons across the board. 16m radius that doesn't go up or down elevations, give them a time limit before they automatically turn off, let the killer spend time to 'reverse' the blessing into a Hex that has the exact opposite effect the boon had, give the perks themselves charges just like med kits or tool boxes, and so on. Some kind of balance for the fact that one survivor perk is benefiting the whole team.
- And lastly: Baking in a delay to survivors spamming Flashlights and Crouching. Yeah yeah, douchebags will find exciting new ways to be douchebags. That doesn't mean these behaviors should be tolerated. It's important to be able to turn on your flashlight and crouch at a moment's notice, but there is zero reason why you would need to do it again, immediately afterwards. Killers get cooldowns baked into everything they can do, why not survivors?
None of these are especially likely.
EDIT:
- Oh yeah, or a new Game Mode. They briefly mentioned that they weren't 100% against trying out a new game mode in the last thing, so that's a positive first step. They most likely aren't actually working on one, but something other than "fix five gens and open 1 door" over and over again.
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If the Doctor's "you can't vault or throw a pallet" effect was VALIDATED to the instant it touches a survivor, he would be A because he finds survivors quickly, you basically can't hide from him, and his chases would go much faster than they do now.
His power is NOT validated however. So, you will shock a survivor. They will scream. Then they will throw a pallet in your face. His shock is about as reliable as Plague's puke, which is to say: Not reliable at all and in fact incredibly frustrating.
Still, he's above C-tier just because at least his power flushes survivors out of hiding and that counts for something.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2816782#Comment_2816782
Yes, most of the perks listed under good design are weak, but they are not weak because of the design. They could be easily buffed to make them more viable.
They COULD be buffed to make them viable. The problem is that they're not weak because of the design, they're weak BY design. As in, they are designed specifically to be weak.
The prevailing killer design philosophy is to reward success and punish failure. Anything that helps you when you are struggling is perceived as 'rewarding failure' and therefore is intentionally made to be niche and minimal. This is a common theme you will find in Western games, where the aesthetic is 'if you are winning, you deserve to keep winning,' and leads to snowballing situations where one side gets so far ahead that the other side loses any chance to come back.
And that's why so many people use NOED (and why survivors hate NOED so much). It is, effectively, a Blue Shell in Mario Kart. It's a perk that says "okay, you're going really badly, so here's one last opportunity." But NOED is the exception to the rule. Virtually every other perk worth using rewards success and multiplies your lead, instead of mitigating setbacks by giving you a needed mid-game push. There are lots of opportunities to build in mid-game catch-up, but the design philosophy just keeps getting in the way.
Just look at Grim Embrace. Here's a perk that gives killers a mid-game breather, completely stopping all gen progress. However, it only works IF the killer manages to down and hook all four survivors once. I don't know about you, but my games typically had 2-3 generators pop by the time I got my first hook. Tack on that survivors can use the same characters with the same skins, making it extremely difficult to tell who you HAVE and who you HAVEN'T hooked yet (since the killer hook counter HELPFULLY has less information than the survivor one). So, if you're doing quite well, Grim Embrace gives you more time to keep doing well. But if you're struggling to get get downs, much less evenly spread hooks? Totally useless.
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Quit after the Deathslinger nerf. Still pop in to see if anything is being done to make the game better. Nothing so far, so it's been a good number of months now.
But hey, I picked up FF14 and have been having a great time playing that instead. So, dropping DbD has been a pretty positive change. I hope the other 40% of players who quit this game are having as good a time without it as I am.
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"It's called Dead by DAYLIGHT! Why are so many maps so bright? And some just straight up take place in broad daylight?! This is dumb."
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Part of the problem is that most of the "Good design" perks you listed are just BAD perks. They provide very, very little to the killer. I agree that there should be more 'safety net' perks, but they actually need to have a potent effect.
Tinkerer and Deadlock are great. They point you to the most at-risk gen or slow down gen progress. Stuff like Bitter Murmur or Beast of Prey are AWFUL. Their effects should be something like 4x as long on the aura reading of Bitter Murmur or making Beast skip you past from Bloodlust 1 and right into 2 or 3.
Perks that reward you for doing well are perceived by the Dev Team as "earned," so they feel more justified in giving them better effects. Second Chance perks are very common among Survivors, but take a look at the primary killer second chance: No One Escapes Death. It's the ultimate "well you lost the match, but you still have a chance to get something going, assuming the survivors didn't destroy/buff all your totems and you can find/hit the survivors, AND they don't find your NOED before you get any use out of it."
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@RaSavage42 said:
I mean... they'll probably buff some aspects and nerf others
This is actually a good point. If she DOES get a buff, they will almost certainly tie it to a nerf as well. Just like how they improved Trickster's power, but then took away a ton of his knives. Or Wraith's cloaked speed was increased, but the delay on his uncloak increased. Or how they buff a killer's worst addons, but nerf the best / most-used addons at the same time, just because they can (lookin' at Demo, Twins, Pinhead, etc).
I still don't think they'll actually buff her before release. But when sales numbers are way below what they wanted, and the stats come back to show just how bad she is, they MIGHT buff her with a bonus little 'kick-in-the-teeth' nerf included. Something like "decreased the time tvs stay off when you teleport to them, but also removed 2-3 tvs from every map."
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If somebody finds something passably useful in the PTB, they'll nerf it before release, just like Artist's idle crows. Otherwise, I see no historical evidence that they will buff her in PTB based on overwhelming player responses that she feels very weak, has nothing to deal with the ample tools at survivors' disposal, and her power is severely lacking across the board in every way.
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Letting survivors 'outplay' killer powers would be fine, if killer powers were, themselves, very easy to execute perfectly.
What a lot of survivors do not understand is that this game is made to control as poorly as possible. Killer players are actively fighting AGAINST the game's basic controls to get their character to do anything. Every time a killer player manages to get a killer power to actually function, it's a small miracle. And that's BEFORE all the visual and auditory cues go out, warning survivors that you're about to do something, as well as the good long delay survivors get to react before they're actually in any danger at all.
Meanwhile, survivor effects like Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced Landing, Overcome, Iron Will, Unbreakable, Adrenaline, so on and so forth, have ZERO auditory/visual warnings for the killer. There is zero counterplay and no evidence that they're in play until the survivor reaps the benefits. They all also require very little in the way of skill, because survivor 'powers' function automatically, with little to no pre-requisites.
So, killers get to experience awful-feeling base controls, broadcast what they're trying to do, AND have to assume that every survivor has a laundry list of potent perks at their disposal all the time because THEY get no advanced warning? Every time somebody complains about Nurse, Blight, Spirit, or any other killer, you can just SEE the zero hours of playtime they've put into that character.
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When 2-3 gens pop before the first hook, killers just don't have enough time to play the game the way it's supposed to be played.
If you want people to stop camping, you have to make the game a better give-and-take, and that means: fewer pallets, shorter loops, weaker second chances, slower gens, fewer killer power/addon nerfs, and way slower healing.
Neither the survivors nor the Devs want to admit that the game needs all those things, so the only reliable killer strategy at low skill levels is to just camp one survivor (and essentially allow the other three to finish all the gens and escape for free).
It's a crummy strategy, I agree, and not at all healthy for the game's long-term appeal. But neither is "it takes killers five gens worth of chasing to hook one survivor three times." But that's the state of the game, with the new "2 kills 2 escapes" dynamic. Devs want all 5 gens repaired in 100% of games, and that means you get one kill by the last gen and maybe get one more in the end game collapse. And that's a whole lot of work for such a deflating final result.