Adjatha
Adjatha
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@I_CAME said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2933959#Comment_2933959
He's good. The fact that he can completely ignore some of the strongest perks is a big part of it. Most people who play him are just really bad and make him look weaker than he is when played to his full potential. A good Pyramid Head is rare but they can be rough to go against. Higher level players don't play him because Nurse/Blight exist. That doesn't mean he isn't strong.
@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2934068#Comment_2934068
Yeah, you can still beat them consistently, but lots of mending now that everyone is playing them.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2933959#Comment_2933959
Hard disagree. His perks and add ons suck, but PH is very strong. With the right loadout he's easily A-tier.
This is exactly what I'm saying. You can tell how overhyped he is when people rush to defend his design with the same, tired excuses. "He's actually really good, you just have to be super good with his power and have exactly the right build!" "HIs cages ignore Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike, so clearly he's the greatest thing to have ever been!" "Sure his perks and addons, and such are awful, but ignore that and just pretend that he's just as good if not better than all the other killers who have a whole slew of addons to make themselves more unique, more powerful, or better able to handle meta survivor builds!"
Hey guess what? That means he's a good B-tier killer. Maybe the top of B-tier, but WAY lower than S or even A.
Good players can win an average game with just about anybody. Consistency and top end performance? That ain't PH. And I don't care how much everybody wants to pretend that it is. His Torment is 100% in the hands of the survivors and if you're even GETTING cages, it's because your survivors are bad. Without cages? He's just a short-range huntress with slower, poorly aimed throws that give them way more advanced warning to dodge.
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Pyramid Head is the most overrated killer. His torment trail is awful, his shockwave is the most over-broadcast power in the game, and his addons are the worst of any killer. He's high B at best, but people love to call him S-tier. Yet, for some STRANGE reason, you never see high tier killers playing PH nonstop, or people running him in tournaments, or even just seeing tons of him in the current MMR quagmire. He's not BAD, but he's wildly overhyped.
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Used to love the game. Then they decided that "Balance" required making killer powers feel bad to use and unrewarding even if you do them correctly. Making the game control worse for one side is the worst possible way you can change the game for balance concerns.
Still hold out hope things will improve, but looking at Sadako, it's clear the prevailing game design philosophy is still "make killer powers either absurdly difficult to control but good OR make the killer powers easy to control but pathetic and mostly useless."
And then you look at Ghostface and just gotta laugh. One of the worst, least played killers in the game, so here's a minor buff and a whole laundry list of nerfs. No reason to come back and, increasingly, no reason to even look back. Nothing's getting better.
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Given that killers get nerfed based on kill rates, you're probably not wrong. If NOED didn't offer a chance to get a kill in the end game, numbers would probably be at least 1 lower in mid mmr brackets.
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The point of the game is that it is a 1v4. NOT a 1v1.
Survivors SHOULD lose every single chase, eventually. And considering that a killer has to catch you twice per chase (assuming you heal) and has to down you three times, that means they have to get close enough to hit you SIX times per player (up to 24 times per game). If anything, it's already too hard to catch survivors of medium to high skill for a majority of the killer roster.
If one member of the survivor team can stay out of touching range, the survivors win every single game.
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Letting survivors expose him while THEY'RE hidden is the most backassward approach to the character anyone could've possibly conceived of. If they were going to make it way easier to expose Ghostface, they should've quadrupled the time it takes to expose him. But no. Better to keep him at the bottom of the roster than risk a survivor complaining that it just 'wasn't fun having to stop what they're doing and look up'
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/321383/i-think-i-got-baited
If they nerf Artist...that would probably be the day I hang up this game for good - because it means that my vision for the game and the devs vision for the game are irreconcilably different.
She's as close to a perfectly balanced killer as any, alongside Plague and Demo.
The only changes I'd make to her would be making her addons a bit less bleh.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2929712#Comment_2929712
DMS is often a psychological perk moreso than a useful regression perk. I've stopped using it as I've found what happens is that it looks like I'm winning, with 5 hooks at 5 gens and suddenly 4 gens pop at the same time.
Same. The Deathslinger nerf was the last straw for me. I bought him, then his whole deal gets dumpstered without warning or justification. If 'make killers control worse and their powers weaker and less fun to use' is the go-to for any and every situation, I've got better games to play.
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Artist was released what? 5 months ago? She got nerfed right before release, so yeah. Probably time for her to get nerfed again. People complaining about Dead Man's Switch and not understanding how crows work (but being very vocal about their Ls all the same) suggest they're probably going to nerf her long-distance effect.
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Boy, sure would've been a lot less embarrassing if DbD had a "tournament" game mode the players could've turned on, with all the limitations pre-programmed in.
But who in a world would spend time making a new game mode? That'd be CRAZY. They have to spend their time NOT putting in search/sort options on all those 200 perks. And even more time NOT making a balance changes to character/skin/perk selections. And let's not forget the back-breaking work it takes to NOT make the game's core systems transparent, especially in the new tutorial.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926225#Comment_2926225
- Thread has a bunch of Ghost Face players asking for him to get buffed
- Dev replies that they are working on buffing Ghost Face
- ”You can only hear survivor mains”
🙄
"Dev replies that they are working on Buffing Ghostface"
"On this note: We hear ya, and we'll be working on an improved version (of his chase music). In the meantime, we'll be turning down the volume of his chase music in the first bugfix patch."
You just saw the red name and didn't bother reading any further, didn't you?
:eyeroll:
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Great point. So how about we change Dead Hard to only make you immune to normal attacks, and leave you vulnerable to every killer power? Since it's not that strong against normal attacks, that seems like a fair trade-off.
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@OpenX said:
Too strong for how easy they are to play imo. And some of the addons are just dumb and remove all counterplay. Also I don't like being so heavily punished for my team's mistakes.
I much prefer a killer like Ghostface where if I get exposed its my own fault and not because Joe-Schmoe got stabbed 40m away and now the legion knows my position.
Also the gameplay is such a slog. Mend, mend, mend, can't save because I'm injured, thanatophobia so im holding M1 for an eternity no matter what, etc etc.
Avoiding survivor until they get nerfed or the craze dies down
This post is a master class in saying "I want to play against a bot" without saying "I want to play against a bot"
- "too strong for how easy they are to play" - Right, because a killer with no anti-loop, a power that can be completely turned off by a survivor stunning them, dodging hits, or just running away is just TOO EASY.
- "I don't like being so heavily punished for my team's mistakes" - Because this is a single player game, where every part of the game depends on you and you alone. Why should one person get punished just because their team is falling apart in this Team-Based Game?
- "if I get exposed, it's my own fault" - This game already puts WAY too many killer powers in the hands of the survivors. You understand you're playing against a person, right? That their input into the game needs to, on some level, supersede your input? This isn't Dark Souls, where any time you get hit, it's because you failed to do something. That's not how multiplayer games work.
- "mend mend mend" - I mean, heaven forbid any aspect of this game stop you from sitting on a generator with your toggled M1 button engaged for the duration of the match. A killer power that requires a whole 12 seconds of doing something other than gens? What a slog!
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Unlike modern killer designs, Ghostface does not give survivors more information about the killer power than the survivors get. And the power doesn't just fade away for no reason whatsoever. And he's STILL one of the weakest killers in the game.
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@ActualCasual said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2928264#Comment_2928264
Literally no other first person experience in gaming is as restrictive as dbd
No other first person game would ever get away with the horrible, unresponsive, poorly timed controls that DBD has for their killers. Even the good-feeling killers get nerfed to feel worse to control eventually. Because it's not enough for you to have to deal with four survivors and objectively hostile map designs, why not ALSO have to fight against your own controls
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Change Bloodlust to stick on the survivor being chased instead of dropping off every time they drop a pallet. Top tier killers don't have to deal with 90 second chases, but all the default dans have no tools to catch up. Bloodlust is already in-game, why not make it the band-aid that the worst killers need
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I like that they recognized Ghostface as one of the absolute worst killers in the game. And then, in the patch that was supposed to buff him, they increased the range he can revealed at, increased the horizontal view range he can be revealed at, and gave reveal progress a buffer so it doesn't go away if he ducks down or goes around a tree.
Did they actually think he needed three additional nerfs to compensate for the extra 15 seconds of exposed he gets if he manages to stalk you?
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There was nothing 'shadow' about the string of four waves of Pyramid Head nerfs that came out super quickly, right after he came out and before survivors had a chance to adjust to playing against him.
The state of PH is a case study in over-reaction to a problem that only exists for brand new players.
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Almost as if SWF should automatically bump up a team's rating by default, instead of pretending that it's not an objective power jump for one side thanks to secondary programs being run outside of the game.
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I'd play the heck out of a full-bot mode. An opportunity to try out different killers, different builds, and different tactics without being harassed by random internet douchebags? A+ 10/10
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In this thread: A bunch of survivor mains who have never played killer complain about the killers they lose to most frequently without ever actually touching the killer to see how hard to play they are.
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Every 'room' has 1-3 pallets in it. Around 1 in 3 have hooks in them.
Yes. There are too many pallets in too concentrated a space, with too many of them involving loops that are too large and too safe.
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The , instead of . to denote a decimal point was confusing at first, but I got it eventually.
Interesting stats. The wild overabundance of Dead Hard is not surprising in the slightest. The popularity of Self-Care is, I assume, due to players who did not want to buy the Mikaela dlc
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Well, 55% of Steam users have quit over the last nine months.
The people who enjoy harassing strangers on the internet? Nothing they love has been taken from them, so they're all still playing.
You're roughly twice as likely to encounter horrible people than you were before. And the concentration is just going to keep going up as nothing is done to make the game less appealing to those sorts of people.
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They ALL need to be thrown out and remake from the ground up. Just because his Iridescents are the biggest jokes of all doesn't make the others any less horrible.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
I'm 90% sure Ruin got reworked because it barely affected good players and heavily hindered beginners
That's EVERY skill check.
Skill checks need to be easier for new players and way, WAY harder for good players.
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Literally any change to his addons would, defacto, be good changes. As they are now, they are all uninspired, weak, and essentially pointless. The range of shockwave is the only one that ever sees use, but they don't speed up the actual wave, so survivors have loads of time to just move slightly out of the way.
All of the "more trails, regen trails, trails stay in the game longer" should be rolled up into single addons. Individually, they're all totally pointless.
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"Balancing" killers by ruining their powers is a pretty good way to drive off killer players.
"Balancing" killers by deleting their best add ons? Same result.
How do you make playing Killer more attractive to build up a larger player base? Well, that's hard to say. But it's certainly not those first two.
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Spend the entire course of the game chasing and tunneling one survivor for the first kill because if you don't, they all heal up to full in seconds.
All the gens get done because you can't pressure gens and get through all the second chance perks and pallets that make chases take forever.
Down one survivor in the end game with NOED and just camp the hook until the other two just leave (or one of them takes their friend's place).
Perfect balance! Amazing gameplay! Can't wait to buy ALL the cosmetics!
/s
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One thing I did not see mentioned was how the MMR tests handled groups. Did groups experience a higher than normal wait time on some tests but not others? Did games with SWF members in them experience a significantly higher-than-normal victory rate on some tests more than others? Were SWF groups more common in the upper end of the MMR curve than the lower?
I ask because I'm not entirely sure how SBMM actually works for groups. If one person has a top-end score and their partner a bottom-end score, are those just averaged? Is the highest value used? Are any secondary factors considered, like the number of people in the SWF team?
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Weighing time concerns off of Prestige resets seems like a disingenuous complaint. Most players don't care about Prestige ranks and those who do, don't care about grind time.
A legitimate complaints is "time to get all perks on a given character."
Do you have the estimated time to do that?
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- Continual nerfs to weak killers that make them not fun to play
- SWF format is intrinsically stronger than Solo format, despite killers being balanced around solo games
- Far too many 4 Escape games and far too many 4 Kill games. Both should be very, VERY rare occurrences.
- 4-5 overpowered perks dominating every single survivor team, instead of a wide sampling of different perks allowing survivors to take on various 'role' in the course of the game.
- Only one game format that gets super repetitive
- Maps with far too many pallets that are all far too safe
- Invisible collision spots on various maps that never get fixed
- New maps coming out bright and brighter to the point where the "Daylight" part of the name is a total joke
- Too many killer powers being put entirely in the hands of the Survivor team
- Everything about boons: from being too wide an area, working through multiple levels, being better than their one-player-only perk counterparts, overwriting killer perks, being infinitely useable, being able to stack multiple on a single spot, letting survivor teams run multiple at once, having numbers wildly overtuned just to sell DLC, and invalidating whole killer powers/playstyles merely by existing.
- No bot games to practice new killer powers on
- Far too many "no one would ever use this in a million years why was it even made and why does it work like that" perks on both sides
- Killer buffs that completely miss the point of why those killers struggle, by changing an unrelated part of their kit instead of just tweaking a few numbers on the part that actually matters
And many, many more.
Oh yeah, and especially:
- Pyramid Head's Addons are the worst, most useless, least interesting selection of any killer in the game and despite all his perks getting reworked and his power getting nerfed multiple times, he'd never had so much as a tweak to this miserable crop of completely worthless garbage.
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Pyramid Head's Addons.
All his perks have been reworked (with mixed success) and his power has been nerfed many, many times.
Yet he still has the worst, most useless, least creative selection of addons of any killer in the game. The only ones that anybody bothers with is the "slight increase to shockwave range" ones, and those are pretty pathetic at that.
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Adaptive Difficulty is a good call.
The best place to put it? Skill Checks.
For new players, skill checks are challenging and require a great deal of focus. For experienced players, skill checks are a nuisance that might as well not exist. But what's this? We have mechanics that make skill checks easier and harder in the game, increasing/decreasing the size of the zone, speeding things up, moving the meter, reversing the dial, diminishing the warning sound, and so forth.
Ergo, New players (and those with very, very low ELO) should have EASIER skill checks, so they can focus on the game going on around them rather than tunnel vision on the generator. As they improve the checks get harder. On the opposite end, super high ELO players get VERY difficult check all the time. They actually have to focus instead of just breezing through the game's central Survivor Mechanic. They would actually sometimes fail their checks, slowing down Gen Rush and giving the killer much-needed information in the super high tiers.
All of the tools to do this already exist in the game.
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What do you mean, "Nerfing Stronger Killers?"
I believe you mean "Nerfing Weak, But Popular Killers."
Nobody wants to play Blight or Nurse because they control terribly and are a gigantic pain to get good with. So they stay super strong and very rarely get nerfed. Pathetically weak killers who are easy to control, though? Sayonara.
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I haven't played in six months and I'm at just a touch under 6 million BP.
More log-in rewards and promo codes than ever before. It's pretty crazy.
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I haven't played in the last six months and I'm at like 6 million BP from log-in event bonuses and promo codes.
There have been more "Please don't uninstall and just launch our game" bonuses over the last half a year than I have ever seen before. They REALLY wan to keep those log-in numbers up (even if they don't translate into getting people to play)
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2903141#Comment_2903141
They actually got nerfed with the Artist's release, which is the regular time for them to review content (one chapter after).
Fair enough. I looked at the PTB date, which was the start of November (2 months after Ph release date, and thusly in the middle of the chapter). But the patch and resultant nerfs didn't go live until the end of November (a little under 3 months).
So, they'd decided to nerf him after 8 weeks of use. Sadako has been out for 5 weeks, so I guess we'll see in three weeks or so if they decide to change her current state.
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So, killer buffs need time to breath before being considered. Don't want to make a knee-jerk reaction.
But Pinhead's critical addons got nerfed in a mid-chapter patch, because...
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The simple fact that there is no Set In Stone definition of a "Killer Victory," means that the Devs don't know how to balance the game accordingly. Some people say "getting 1 hook on each survivor" is a victory (usually just for the BBQ stacks, though if that WERE a victory, you'd think the BP bonus would be baseline, not eat one of your perk slots).
If you want to define "getting 2 hooks on each survivor" as your own victory, that's fine. Other people are not going to agree, necessarily, and the kills/escapes mmr system ends up getting twisted up by your "4 Escapes Every Game" principle.
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Hit Validation for his shock.
The second a survivor screams, they need to be locked out of interacting with windows/pallets. Currently, they have a full second after the shock to drop a pallet and it feels like the game just rejected your power.
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Killer charm this month. Survivor charm next month. Prepare to be underwhelmed.
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Removing the slowdown addons was harsh but ultimately fine.
Giving the clocks a "free from sleep" period that even extended to his melee attack was extremely unnecessary and gives survivors added control over his power, but at least the clocks make them leave gens so fine, I guess.
Reducing his movement speed when placing snares completely invalidated the whole point of them, massively reducing his effectiveness in chases and tremendously harming the feel of control. He straight-up feels clunky to play.
Taking his maximum number of snares/pallets away? Just straight-up salt in the wound. So embarrassingly pointless on top of EVERYTHING else, but tossed into the massive pile of nerfs like a thumb stuck in the wound.
Freddy's nerfs were a total hack job. It reads like somebody had a vendetta and just took a knife to every part of his kit just so they'd never have to see another person play that character ever again.
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They can't get bots into this game fast enough.
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Boons would've been Very Strong, but ultimately fine if they only provided ONE perk's worth of bonuses to the entire survivor team. CoH that only gives +100% heal speed, like Botany Knowledge but for everybody? That's still very, very strong, but it's not game breaking. CoH that gives Self-Heal at -50% heal speed, like Self-Care but for everybody? That's still very, very strong, but not game breaking. Having both? That's an embarrassment of one-sided design.
As to the larger theme of the post: letting player demands dictate balance decisions is already the state of the game. That ship has sailed.
People complained about Billy, he got gutted, complaints moved to Freddy. Freddy got gutted, complaints moved to Spirit. Spirit got gutted, complaints moved to Deathslinger. And on and on forever and ever. Mass complaints WORK in this game, so why would people ever stop? The current target is Bubba, and it's a matter of time before he too gets knocked down due to survivor hive mind pressuring Devs. And there will be another one right after, be certain of it.
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One person on one gen taking 80 seconds is fine.
The problem is when 3-4 people are on 3-4 gens, with each one taking 80 seconds. That's not fine.
Gen progress should be slower for every gen being worked on beyond the first. That way, survivors are more encouraged to work as, you know, a team on singular gens, but survivors are punished for splitting their attention and trying to pop 3 gens at once. That would ALSO make the Shrouds make more sense (survivors use 'start together' to knock one gen out right away, while killers use 'start separate' to have split gens progress slower).
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If hackers can make AI bots, why can't BHVR make some for solo play?
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At the risk of beating a dead horse, let me add some quick math:
Cleansing a totem takes 14 seconds. If a survivor starts next to (or in direct line of sight) of a totem, they can start that cleanse the moment the game gets underway. Let's be generous and say that that it takes them 4 whole seconds to walk over to it (16m away). So that's 14-18 seconds before the totem is gone.
Killers can see their totems from across the map. If a killer spawns in and walks directly towards the totem at 4.6 seconds, they can cover 64-82m in the time it takes for a totem to get snuffed.
Now let's consider maps. While map size varies, if we exclude The Game and Midwich, the average size of a map is a little over 10,000m2, which is roughly 100m end to end. It's extremely unlikely for a totem to spawn in an uninterrupted path, but let's ignore all the intervening terrain, the multiple levels on many maps, and the extremely likely diagonal the killer would have to take to reach and just work under the best-case scenario: 100m end to end.
Now, most survivor/killer spawn points and totem spawn locations aren't right at the end of the map, but a little ways away from it. So let's go ahead and shave that down by 8m on either end, for a grand total of 84m between the killer and the survivor-spawned totem.
84m for the killer to travel, and 82m that they can go before the totem gets snuffed. RNG can literally spawn you into maps where your hex gets immediately broken and there is nothing you can do to stop it. And it's even worse if you're playing a 4.4 killer.
That means, even under the absolute most favorable conditions, a survivor can STILL snuff a nearby totem before most killers can get to them to stop it. Unless you're playing one of the, like, 5 killers with super speedy travel options, you can get into a game where the game decided you just don't get a hex.
Imagine, if you will, a system that randomly removed one of the perks from your load out. Even if this was very, very rare, you wouldn't say that's a "feature" of the game. You'd call that a bug. Any time the game can randomly generate such that one of your perks provides no benefit and is removed before you can stop it is a failing of game design.
You don't like the "spawn hexes next to the killer" suggestion? Great. How about "spawn hexes within 60m of the killer, so they can actually get to it and stop you from cleaning it" instead?
So that, you know, the game doesn't randomly decided to delete one of your perks.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2875548#Comment_2875548
Having a surv spawn literally looking at a hex is relatively rare, yes. I think people get get imprinted by instances where their hex goes down immediately, and tend to forget when it stays up for half the match. RNG cuts both ways.
It's not specific, but generally the killer and survs will spawn fairly far from each other, and the generally safe assumption is that unless the killer is the trapper, they'll immediately start moving to where the survs are most likely to be (the other side of the map). And imo, random is always going to be better; sometimes it will be close, others it will be on the opposite side of the map, you don't know, and that's the point.
By far the bigger factor (imo) in why hexes go down early is their precise placement, i.e. right out in an open spot with no visual obstructions vs. tucked in a hidden spot. This is how they are found by survs not specifically looking for them most often, imo. Just because a totem is closer, doesn't necessarily mean it will be easier to find.
All killers have had the experience where the hex spawns right next to you, but is so obviously placed that you know it's going down almost immediately. And then it does.
And if the survs are looking for them, and experienced, they're going down quick, whether it's 20 seconds or 40, you're not getting much value. And in the current meta, I would assume at least a couple of survs will immediately start looking for totems in every match. Frankly, it's just a bad meta for hexes in general, and boons are the main reason.
If you're convinced that there is a problem in need of addressing, set up spawn locations that only have a narrow line of sight, so you have to be actively looking for them, and can't clearly see them from like 30 meters away. Hide them better.
"Do it better" has ALWAYS been the real answer. But because the idiotic coding for hexes has never been fixed since day one, the devs are either incapable or unwilling to actually fix the "not hidden in the slightest" problem totems have. There's a ton of better ways to do things and hundreds of posts suggesting different paths, any one of which would be better than the system we currently have. But all of those require actual work.
Ergo, OP's suggestion of "Just always put it next to the killer" is infinitely better than "just trust to luck that you don't lose 25% of your perks in the first 30 seconds of the match."
It's objectively better for survivors to have to LOOK than survivors being just gifted free hexes to snuff. This is indisputable. Are there better solutions? Sure! TONS of them! Since none of the more complicated solutions are even on the radar; this suggestion - the easiest, least complicated solution - is still better than what we have now. And having people, including Devs, drop in to say "oh no, see, there are PROBLEMS with this idea," is so infuriating.
Like, the way things are now SUCKS. Just because another path might have some down sides doesn't mean it should be tossed out. Even bad alternatives are better than the way things are.
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Considering that killers are increasingly being nerfed to be harder to play (Hillbilly's revs, Deathslinger's wind-up, Freddy's fewer snares, Spirit's invisible tells, etc.), it feels like the Devs want all killers to be as hard to play as Nurse.
So if the quality of life keeps plummeting and the difficulty of use keeps climbing, you can't really blame killers for wanting SOMETHING to make the characters more rewarding to play. Why bother with a hard-to-use killer power that has a pathetic output, like Pinhead's controlled chains, when you can just play somebody with a hard-to-use power that has a good output, like Huntress's hatchets?
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Deathslinger. Took out everything good and replaced it with nothing. He's just objectively worse in every sense.