AChaoticKiller
AChaoticKiller
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hatch is fine as it is, gates just need some spawn work to make it so they dont spawn too close or too far
if anything needs to be done to hatch its the interaction they have with keys.
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i mean any post i see about leaving with less then even 10 user posts are a joke
bye random person that i haven't seen before because you made an account to say this
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gen times are fine its just the beginning of the game how multiple gens can be done because you can't effectively check them all.
its very common for 2 gens to get done with nothing you could have done to stop it and you usually have only one or if your really unlucky no hooks.
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it fun
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doesn't solve it being used to just rush gens with unbreakable
a better change would just be to have it deactivate if you work on a gen.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1722812#Comment_1722812
I have not found this to be the case at all.
exactly i dont notice any difference in play style besides pc players being better at a few killers
survivors across the board are pretty much the same in skill cap. i literally had a pc player being a complete idiot following around the killer with a FL and iron will and got caught and downed every time until he died, that doesn't mean all pc players are like that.
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bruh you can't say its just console players
being on pc doesn't magically increase your IQ
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there are perks to find the totems
use them meta gamers
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@LowSpecGamersMatter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1722450#Comment_1722450
U are bad then. Simple. If you think its standard to get downed in 10 seconds then u simple dont know what it takes to be a good survivor. Git Gud before harassing me as delusional
yeah your bad if you get downed that fast near a pallet or a vault, once the game is midway through theres a good chance there isn't pallets near the gens the killer wants to protect. also doesn't change the fact that the extra hit wastes more time than a 32 second heal for a good survivor.
im still right :)
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@LowSpecGamersMatter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1722393#Comment_1722393
if you get downed in 10 seconds THATS the problem: GETTING DOWNED IN 10 SECONDS. U shouldnt be in red ranks if you die that fast.
bruh against a good killer you getting downed that fast in the open dont be delusional i do it constantly against R1 survivors they can't do anything if there is nothing to use nearby.
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@Matilde69 said:
If I'm telling you I have connection issues there is a reason. I live in a small city where I'm surprised internet reach, and recently everybody's is having connection issues.
And with double points I wanted to play this game with my boyfriend and have fun.
If the penalty sistem was done right, I wouldn't be here complaining
i mean if you keep getting disconnected because of internet which screws the other players doesn't that mean the system is working?
your a small portion of the community and not trying to sound like a douche but the game shouldn't cater to you if it means allowing dc'ing since they can't detect if you actually dc'd.
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yeah wasting what 32 seconds to heal compared to possible being downed in less than 10. no mither is definitely worse.
simply being able to take an extra hit wastes a ton of the killers time compared to being injured especially with a exhaustion perk because you can get hit out in the open then use the perk to waste more time later on. with no mither the best perk to use is dead hard and if your caught out in the open your probably going be baited into using it then go down.
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@OctaviusK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1721616#Comment_1721616
Im sorry! I was on the forums and it seemed like people hated going against him, so I asked why received why answer and made this! Im not trying to make him infinitely loopable! It's quite annoying that the forums immediately bounce everything back to survivors just wanting to indefinitely loop, no wonder this communtity is so toxic. No one trusts each other or has any sort of faith.
I'm sorry if this was stupid or absolute mess, if I may ask what is some counterplay against Deathslinger? This would have been a good step towards making this rebalance!
Again sorry!
you don't need ro be sorry, your idea is cool but when discussing something as sensitive as a killers base power and trying to change it greatly you will get backlash but thats not them hating thats mainly harsh criticisms however there will of course be players like him who will take it more personally.
when you create and present an idea think along these lines to see if your idea is effect at addressing what you want changed, is it useful?, is it fair?, is it necessary/needed?, does X thing make up for replacing/changing X thing?, does it make sense and fall in line with other dbd mechanics?, how will this effect gameplay?, and make sure to take other people's opinions with a grain of salt while also considering where they are coming from.
along these lines from my eyes this is how i see your ideas
- removing the instant ADS needs a proper compensation as thats his biggest strength. the audio que isn't necessary and along with him not having instant ADS makes him very weak compared to his current version.(it it necessary?)
- the bloody state does not make up for his nerf and is just a weaker version of his current self because all it does is decrease his ADS time when current deathslinger ADS is instant.(does it make up for replacing X thing?)
- the movement speed being 115% is something proposed countless times before and i can see it being useful if you dont have instant ADS but it is not enough to make up for the nerf and doesn't help him much at map pressure just look at clown he would be in a very similar situation.(does it make up for replacing X thing?)
- the gen explosion wont happen often enough and is too counterable by just seeing deathslinger and getting off the gen so it wont help him regress gens and having it deal extra regression still wont help as it wont happen often enough.(is it useful?, does it make sense and fall in line with other game mechanics.)
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people can't help but be biased, its from their personal experience and even i am biased to a slight degree because i play a very good amount of killer compared to survivor. for stats im around 1800 hours, 800 escapes, and 7500 kills so i know the game pretty well and can look at it from a 1v4 perspective more so than someone who only plays one side or has few hours.
the argument on deathslinger is a personal experience one, as an individual going against a deathslinger feels unfair because of he is good at 1v1's but thats it. against a team who splits the gens he struggles because he is slow. slower than normal because he has to constantly reload. so for people playing deathslinger they say he is fine because they personally understand his weakness and how powerless he is at stopping gens that are across the map but the survivors going against him they only look at the interaction between them and deathslinger not the bigger picture like they are supposed to.
DS is fine but when it is combined with unbreakable its a problem that should be addressed that might be me being biassed but thats what happens when you understand how it puts you in a no win situation when going against that because you can't punish the survivor. you say that we waste their time but in reality the killer is also wasting time having to go after that survivor who is probably on a gen.
people just can't help but be biased even the ones who say they aren't are in fact biased to a slight degree. to me it seems like you are biased to survivors for saying how the DS+UB combo is ok because you can ignore them when in reality you can't just let that survivor do whatever they want because that is literally a minute of immunity for them to do gens. again i do believe DS is fine by itself just not with UB.
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@Matilde69 said:
Why the ######### should I DC during double blood points, in particular when I use my party streamer or a cake.
If I go against something I don't like I'm just gonna kill myself on first hook
well according to some else you would have to dc or crash at least 7 times and i find it very unlikely for that to happen for you to get to 48 hours without dc'ing.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I had asked that yesterday as I keep getting DC Penalties when the Killer DCs for some reason. What was agreed upon at least in my thread is you get two 5 minutes, two 15 minutes, and then it got kind of hazy.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/202539/anyone-know-the-dc-penalty-times
Not a lot of people commented unfortunately but the first post person gave a decent breakdown
"Its two 5 minute penalties, two 15 minute penalties, two 30 minute penalties, then 1 hour, then 6, then 24, then 48. I don't know if it goes above that, but it does degrade after time, it just takes a while so if your game is crashing maybe take a break for about half and hour and try again so it doesn't get higher"
I can't say for sure that this is correct but so far, my DC penalties have followed this
i'll use it for a model but it would be great if a mod could confirm.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1722069#Comment_1722069
No, that's not the same. That's called a false equivalence.
The game doesn't let you pick how casually or competitively you wish to treat it. It only has one mode, and it has ranks while also coining itself as a party game. If it's a party game, staying or leaving really shouldn't matter. If it's competitive, it should matter, but it would need to tighten its belt.
Also, hate to break this to you, but it's not another players job to make sure YOU have a good time. If you think it is, you're entitled. Their primary goal in playing a game is to entertain their self. Not you. They can want to play the game with the current rules, but find that the Killer is simply too much to handle or their team is sandbagging them, and want to leave. If it's a competitive game, then maybe it's not the game for them. That said, this game often gets called a party game, so the competitive mindset is kinda tossed out the window (to a degree).
I personally don't like DCing. I have never DCed. I don't even suicide on hook unless it's to give someone hatch. That said, I also understand that the game doesn't differentiate between a casual and competitive audience, which has been wreaking havoc on the balance of the game and how it handles player expectations vs player experience.
MOST games use a ranked and casual mode to alleviate this. If you don't want that, fine. The result, however, is that the game will need to put its foot down and properly adhere to a casual or competitive mindset, which is going to affect the overall playerbase.
dbd can't take the casual route and unfortunately the mindset of "its not the other players job to make sure you have a good time" in dbd is unfortunately true and false. your right that they dont have to play by your rules or even save you but dc'ing screws EVERY other survivor so that should be punished. as i said this is balanced like a competitive game so a rank system is needed because even 1 bad survivor against a good killer can screw the whole team.
im not gunna keep arguing if you use that kind of argument because while you are right if this was any other game this isn't the case here. if we had someone dc every game it causes problems for everyone just like it did post the dc penalty.
just to clear things up im looking at the games health not a players enjoyment, if they can't deal with something in a game they shouldn't have played. for the games health the best course of action is to punish dc'ing. if you want to keep the argument going dont treat it as "players rights" or provide a terrible solution that doesn't solve anything. give a better system to deal with dc'ing or something else to solve it. the thing is you probably can't because of the nature of this game so your only argument is that there shouldn't be dc penalties which plenty of players think otherwise and vise versa.
however whether you agree or not they reduce the amount of dc'ing and while hook suicides did go up that combined with the dc's is less then the amount of total dc's post the penalty system. the system is working as intended which is discouraging dc's and making people who dc(ruin others games) a lot unable to play.
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bruh there is no way you got a 48 hour timeout from crashes alone, your dc'ing and thats why you created the account
dont dc your screwing your team over.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1722019#Comment_1722019
Okay, the standard method of discouraging DCing (a ranked mode that penalizes for it) is out.
So now what? As it currently stands, people already complain that the ranking system in this game is a bit problematic. Casual players complain about sweaty try-hards. Everyone complains if they can or can't DC. What solution do you think would even work in this scenario?
Some people want to play casually and DC whenever they want. Some people want to treat the game like it's competitive and punish DCing because it affects their rank and gameplay. Which is it? You can't make both crowds happy without separate modes, so you will have to pick one side and leave the other one out. Regardless of the outcome, one camp is going to have torches and pitchforks.
This is one of the core issues I have seen with this game. It's a party game until it's competitive, but it's competitive until it's a party game. Nobody can seem to decide. If it's a party game, balance and rank shouldn't be an issue. DCing shouldn't be an issue. If it's competitive, balance and DCing matters, but it gives less room for casuals to just putz around.
People are not happy if they can't dc but also if dc'ing even happens. you can't cater to both parties you have to chose one and the obvious one to cater to is the ones who don't like dc'ing because it improves the games health. this game isn't a competitive game but its balanced like one so if even one player dc's it screws the other 3, if that is the case why not punish that player for ruining the match for the other 3?
a casual mode is not the answer and will be even more unbalanced and unfun then the currant ranked system. what the game needs is things to discourage dc'ing and imo even hook suicides if they can detect them.
for fun and balanced games in a game like dbd where the only skills you can get are from the game itself the only way to have fun and balanced games is with a rank system or the MMR if the devs get it to work properly. we don't need a causal mode that would just increase lobby times and provide unbalanced frustrating matches. you do know that people HATE getting matched with other players of different ranks? i don't understand how a casual mode can do anything for this games health and before you respond with dc'ers will go to it they wont and if they do it will just result in a horrible gamemode that will die in a month of its release since players don't like being screwed over from dc's.
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@StibbityStabbity said:
Just do what most games do, and also add something this game DESPERATELY need:
A casual and ranked mode. Ranked can have DC penalties. Casual would not. Casual would also ignore ranks when matchmaking and simply grab anyone that's available. Casual play would not affect ranks or pips.
BOOM, fixed.
that splits the player base over the same game. it would also be worse for survivors and sometimes the killer because of the varying amount of experience. also how would that discourage dc'ing? if anything it will make it worse because of the amount of bs you have to deal with.
that doesn't solve anything it just introduces a game mode for dc'ing and super unbalanced games that would encourage MORE dc'ing so players would prefer the normal ranked matches for fairer games. literally no good reason for a casual mode unless you with a good swf or your an amazing killer because then you would just destroy the opposition.
edit: also the ranked mode IS a casual mode, it's just there to put you with other players of similar experience because otherwise the killer has a massive advantage most of the time. this isn't a game like rainbow 6 siege where your skills carry over from other games there isn't a game out there like dbd if you don't count the ripoffs. a casual mode would just be awful to play in as anything other than the best of whatever side your playing as.
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bruh people will DC for ridiculous reasons, how about you just idk DONT DC
lets make it to you can't be quickly downed people dc from that
lets completely rework over half the killers that are not even strong just annoying enough to DC against
lets make it so the killer always can get a survivor in 40 seconds people dc if that can't and also lets make it so survivors always last longer than 40 seconds
lets stun lock the killer or something else just as exploitable or ridiculous people dc if they can't be saved.
lets make it so DS is a permanent perk people DC from being tunneled also lets make it so the killer almost never has to worry about the perk
I can continue this list for some time because with this game there is no fixing what people dc against, the very nature of this game makes it frustrating. we need to discourage dc'ing that's the only fix.
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how do you move fast to the sides is my question, i never figured that out as sometimes it is fast than other times i can barely move.
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@GrimmReaper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1720575#Comment_1720575
Sadly it seems people want to balance him so he's even in 1v1s all while ignoring the fact that this is a 4v1 game. I play another asymmetrical game that tries to balance the game as if it's a 1v1 and coming from that I'll tell you it doesn't work. So I ask people to remember that killers are supposed to have the upper hand in 1v1 situations. All I'll say at this point is if people want to make him feel more "fair" in 1v1s then give him something to help with the 4v1 aspect. Right now he's only good in chase. So if you want to weaken the only thing he's good at then at the very least give him something for pressure or mobility so he can better handle the 4v1 aspect of this game.
did the game you come from happen to be called white noise? i swear it is impossible to win as the monster unless the players suck and don't know the objective spawns.
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@OctaviusK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1720764#Comment_1720764
Im a bit sleepy so forgive me but the reason I did this is because many complained that it wasn't fun to go against him. So I weakend his chase adding as some counterplay while adding in some map pressure and gen regression.
I don't think a ranged killer like DS should have 115% movement speed and the survivors definitely dont need a sound notification the second he uses his power. I like this bloody state you mention but the exchange of not being able to instant ADS is not worth it and it just makes him a slightly worse deathslinger if you do enter the bloody state. this won't make him better even if he is at a constant 115% speed so this would just nerf him with an unequal compensation for his power level. the gen explosion doesn't make sense and is too weak and situational to be useful.
he is balanced because if survivors spread gens he can't apply pressure by getting down after down along with being slow. you need your team to prioritize that. in honestly unless the bloody state you mention massively boosts him in exchange for not having instant ADS this isn't a good change to him. also again no sound notification is needed for him the one we have for him aiming down sights too long is fine.
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i think death slinger is fine personally
he is a strong 1v1 killer and its hard to tell if he is close because of his small TR but thats it, he can't snowball, he can't stall, he can't apply map pressure, and is slower than a standard 110% killer because he has to reload so missing is punishing.
people don't like the mindset of this being a team game you are not supposed to do good against a heavy 1v1 killer in a chase so you need to count on your team to be doing gens and spacing them apart so he loses due to his horrible map pressure.
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i like seeing @TheClownIsKing he is pretty cool. i also like seeing the members who have a ton of posts because it shows that you guys are super active.
i mainly come to the forums to present and discus idea's and debating is my thing so i don't expect to see anyone who likes me too much XD
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1717645#Comment_1717645
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I agree the ceiling is very high for OoO, but the floor is also low and the risk of running it is high. In order to get close to the ceiling you would basically need to be in a very solid four-man SWF with insane teamwork and detailed callouts for every location on the map and every action a killer could perform. I just don't see any evidence that teams are doing that, which isn't surprising given that this game has no real competitive scene.
i understand where your coming from but the issue is that there is just no in game skill involved its all up to how well you communicate along with your skill at the basics of the game. While your right its rare for the perk to be used to its best there are simply no in game factors that influence the perk other than getting a bad map which there are few of and can be prevented with offerings.
its completely up to how you prepare to use it, you can run it with your friends or create a group of try hards in relatively little time then go into a match and destroy the killer. even if you not the best at using it you still gain a massive advantage from simply having good information available for your team.
also i dont think the skill floor is that low, while its unplayable to solo's we are only looking at swf's because that is the problem with it. you don't really need teamwork just the OoO providing the information and again your right that its rare for a swf to coordinate super intensely but thats just them not utilizing the perk to its fullest. i believe the best this perk gets to a reasonable degree in terms of information provided to your team is calling out he killers plays in a chase which in would take practice between the team.
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a lot of players depended on addons to need less skill at sawing, some players simply dont like him after his rework compared to his past self, a lot don't like how they cant mindlessly spam/hold his saw.
he isn't as easy anymore which is a factor to how often a killer is played.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1714464#Comment_1714464
That's really not true, for two reasons. First, most of the time you do know exactly where the killer is, even if you don't see them every step of the way. For example, let's say you get hooked and the killer beelines towards a gen across the map where a teammate is. Do you see the killer walk all of the way there? No. Is it very likely that they have BBQ and will continue to beeline towards the gen? Yes. Second, running OoO still doesn't necessarily mean your teammates will have as precise information as you do. Let's say you're playing on Lery's. Are you going to be able to call out which room the killer is in just based on their aura? No, almost certainly not. Even if you've developed a convention with your team such that you know which sides of the map are the top and bottom, the best you'll be able to do is say, "he's in the middle about 1/4 of the way to the top", or something of that nature. That's not a whole lot better than what you'd get just by paying attention to your TR, using your eyes, and using any other tracking perks.
In theory it can be used to make your teammates loop gods, but not really in practice. I'm a red rank killer, which is relevant, because matchmaking is rank-based. I have literally never had a game with an OoO watching me the whole way through my chases and with teammates that were unreasonably good at predicting my mindgames. There are only a minority of loops where that's ever going to be helpful, because the survivor needs time to react to the callout, and only if the killer is moving in a very predictable way. If all they ever to is walk backwards or turn around, sure. What if they start to walk backwards like a classic moonwalk, then reverse and moonwalk the other way? That move often gets hits within a second or two on decent players - they double back when you show the red stain around the corner and then it goes away because they assume you're moonwalking, and then they end up running right into you. If you called out the original moonwalk, they'd run right back into me by the time you had time to call out the second... you get the idea. You could probably bully some killers with no anti-looping power who try to mindgame bigger loops, but in general, good luck with that.
If the object is able to win their 1v1 with the killer and waste a massive amount of time, props to them. In a fair matchmaking system, though, that should not happen much, and against many killers it's not happening unless the matchmaking is really busted. Like, good luck running a killer like Spirit, Nurse, or Clown for long enough to save time for your team. The best you can hope for is to bait the killer into chasing you away from the gens they're defending, but if you're far away from the gens they also don't need to bother with you.
Against stealth killers this perk is straight up garbage. You get to see maybe what third of the map the killer is on, which is not particularly useful information, and in return they get to see your aura, which is very useful for a killer with no TR. Especially against a killer like Ghost Face that has pretty much perfect stealth, you're pretty much just going to get destroyed. You won't know if they're 10m away or 72m away until they walk around the corner. If stealth killers are bad in the chase, and OoO makes it easy for them to hit you for free, you would get way more utility out of something like Spine Chill, or Sprint Burst, or really anything that can help prevent you from taking that first hit.
This perk does destroy Trapper, agreed. This perk does not destroy Freddy or Hag. Freddy's snares make mindgames irrelevant at loops. In other words, even if you have actual wall hacks on him while you're looping, he can still rapidly shut down tiles with his snares and force you to leave them. Unless this is one of the first chases of the game and you get a really favorable match seed, you're probably not going to be able to consistently move from safe tile to safe tile. He's going to force you out of a loop, there's going to be no next loop close enough, and you're going to take a hit. Meanwhile, Hag just sets traps far too frequently and they're way too hard to see and then safely disarm for you to be able to damage her web faster than she can repair it without taking free hits and while still doing gens. Even if you have four flashlights and an OoO, by the time you communicate and destroy the one trap she'll have set three more. You also very likely won't know exactly enough where they are to communicate the location to teammates in the area if you're relatively far away. You'll be able to say, "she put a few traps near the corner jungle gym", but you won't be able to communicate them precisely enough for your teammates to find them and just barely trigger them to avoid a free hit.
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This perk is extremely rare at red rank, four-man SWF or no four-man SWF. The question I have is "If this perk is just stupid OP, why is it so rare? Why has it not become meta?" For every one SWF with an object, you'll have like 20 with the normal Dead Harb/SB, UB, DS, BT/Adrenaline. I think the answer is a combination of things. 1) It doesn't provide nearly as much meaningful information as people say it does, especially when you factor in not being able to scan your surroundings when you don't want the killer to see your aura and 2) It is not fun to use, because it gets you tunneled / makes some killers salty, it's actively detrimental against stealth killers, it's weak against highly mobile killers with strong 1v1 (e.g. Spirit, Nurse), it's weak or even detrimental when the killer has built up pressure and the object is forced to come help relieve it, it forces you to be too careful about where you look during the match, and it generally forces you to sweat your balls off to even try to get good use out of it.
If when MMR comes back OoO enters the ultra-high MMR meta, I'll eat my words. As it stands now, though, it feels more like a noob stomper or "I think I'm better than you" perk than something that's consistently useful. You can tilt baby killers, who will mindlessly chase you for a few gens, and then if and when they give up you can just torment them with it for the rest of the match. Good killers will be able to better exploit the information they're getting back from you, and will be strong enough in the chase that the main issue is not knowing where they are: it's figuring out how to prolong chases. If they want you out of the game, you will be out of the game, and your SWF mates are less likely to just rush gens if the killer is camping you because SWFs are usually way too altruistic. That's more fun, after all.
In my eyes there are things you are just wrong about, btw im also a red rank killer for about 3 years with close to 8k kills and over 1700 hours. I dont feel like trying to address everything inside a paragraph normally so just address these points.
- not knowing the exact location of the killer and how to call that out isn't relevant because it depends on the communication skills of its user and not being able too call the killer out is really only hard in indoor maps which there are few of. a player can simply get better at communicating and set up a good team before a match starts for this perk to be at its best. this addresses your first two paragraphs which is just dependent on the users skill at communicating so these things like calling out moon walking with 1 quick word can be done.
- against stealth killers this perk is only bad in indoor maps which are in the minority of maps and its very good against them in more open maps like cornfields. at best the stealth killer which there are only 4 of will land a hit just like normal but then if a survivor is good at looping pretty much none of those killers can do anything to that survivor until they get to an unsafe area assuming the user is skilled which we are so this perk isn't garbage against them however you might die from the info it gives the killer from getting chased to much but you should be able to waste enough of their time for your team to win which is what this perks goal is so you still win in the end.
- this perk destroys freddy tf you mean lol. you can literally see freddy place snares so they only help if he has pre set snares which he only has a few he can place and it doesn't always give you a hit. against freddy its easy as hell to play safe at any pallet that allows it so im just gunna say your wrong about that. as for Hag which im a hag main it does destroy her because they see where you set the trap and can trigger any of them at max distance and turn around which doesn't get you the hit unless its super unsafe which then they don't bother with it, if they have a flashlight your mega screwed. they can also call out where the majority of your traps are and your team and do the gens in that area or just ignore/stay away from that area and leave a gen far away before risking doing a gen in her web. it doesn't matter how often she can set the traps unless she has more than 6 ready and an OoO user will just follow you and destroy them which they should do because the hag is screwed unless they tunnel the OoO, again im a hag main who has gone against this a good swf with OoO is just not beatable for her unless she camps and gets lucky. she simply cant start a chase and then use her pre-set traps to quickly end them with reliability unless a majority of her traps are set or they are in really good spots and haven't already been disarmed.
- doesn't matter how rare it is you can set it up with ease and time before a match starts, that argument simply isn't valid because it doesn't depend on any in game factors. here's a comparison how often do you see a god nurse? they are still around and are undoubtable the best killer but they are rare AF so does that mean nurse isn't strong/the best? you could say that the difficulty of nurse is what makes her being the best killer in game to borderline OP but here's the thing. OoO doesn't require actual mechanical skill, to use this perk to its best in terms of info you just need to be good at communicating which in honesty unless you are shy or something thats easy AF and you can get good at call outs with just a little bit of practice compared to the hundreds of hours nurse gods have put into nurse to get good at her.
again my main points are these, the perk is good depending on how good the user is at communicating so calling out more difficult things is a possibility, it doesn't matter how rare it is because every aspect not including map(but it can be) can be pre set up to use the perk at its best, stealth killer have a slightly higher advantage against OoO but they wont be able to quickly down them with their ability because they will be spotted and a normal chase will happen so that just helps them find you, the fact that it destroys THREE killers justifies a nerf and you can argue about freddy not caring but in honesty he just becomes clown when a loop happens because its not hard to play safe and as someone with more experience against this as a hag and i can just say you wrong and i have provided why already.
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1714491#Comment_1714491
Survivors always have a head start. It's called your terror radius. That's unless you're playing a Stealth killer, most of will be undetectable anyway. The thing is, survivors often choose to stay at a tile, instead of using their head start. If a good OoO team has used that information against you, so you can never get into a chase with them, then you're pretty unlucky. No one plays like that unless they're pretty competitive and want to win at all costs, at which point they paid for their escape with a bunch of boring matches.
The point is, people calling out your location with OoO doesn't change much.
that argument is ridiculous, good survivors will literally do gens in your face if that will get the gen done and certain killers have smaller TR's or high mobility so they will normally see you before you hear them. calling out where the killer is headed so the survivor can move early does have a massive impact on how a chase would have went and while you can argue that this can still be done without OoO its undeniable that OoO makes this way more easier, common, and consistent because you always know the killers actions regardless of line of sight.
Even if your a killer who can activate undetectable at will the perk is still good as you basically have a constant premonition and with map knowledge its not hard to narrow down the killers location or even just spot them before they get to you. also with OoO its not a question of "this sort of way its used isn't common" its how it can be used regardless of any in game factors because all thats required to use it to its best is being good at communicating which anyone can get better at because its not an in game skill.
lastly a good swf with OoO changes a lot of things as you wont ever get the jump on someone without playing as 1 of 4 stealth killers who are so mediocre that they loss to a good swf anyways. again its not about how its commonly used its how it can be used depending on the communication skills of its user which is not an in game factor that depends on skill. there isn't a way to defend this perk without trying to make it seem less strong then it is which you tried to do and there is PLENTY of proof that its broken if you simply use logic to determine its potential usage and compare the benefits to any other survivor perk and look at how easily that can be preformed by SWF groups. the answer is as long as whoever uses it is good at communication using OoO to its fullest isn't to difficult to set up you just need the right players which is not an in game factor used to decide balance. therefor the argument of its not often used like that often isn't valid because you can set this up before the match starts so how effective the perk is is entirely up to how you prepared before hand. its not a situational thing like DS being used in a locker or Mettle of men activating after getting protection hits you dont need to do any in game actions for this perk to work at its best just set up work before hand and non indoor map.
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mint rage is pretty bad if you dont know how to use it but if you do and you dont mess up your teleporting its a very good addon so i understand it as being high up because it takes nothing away from hag and gives her insane mobility provided you keep your traps set up.
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@Saitamfed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1712089#Comment_1712089
I get your point but... there are two "hidden staircases", the one with the crumbled concrete. Which is on a classroom.
And the other behind breakable walls that is on the bathroom.
they wont help you cut off the survivor you literally just have to keep yourself on the opposite side of the school and there are no good ways to cut the survivor off. that is the best map in the game for a OoO user.
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1710957#Comment_1710957
And here is the problem - when people see someone with OoO, they lose all capability of rational thought and their vision turns red. Tunnelling a decent player who's using OoO and then camping them out is the best way to get 1 kill at most, and that's if you're lucky, regardless of whether they are playing solo queue or not.
That's fine if you're a rookie, but the amount of people who've put countless hours into the game and still have this problem is astounding.
When you load up in a match against an OoO user, try to think about the big picture, instead of developing tunnel vision and only being able to see that one Survivor's aura
then let the OoO tell the rest if you go literally anywhere other than to the OoO user so all other survivors always get a massive head start in a chase before you even see them. -thinking of the bigger picture here
thats what a good OoO swf does so unless your a high mobility killer and even then you are always at a massive disadvantage until the OoO is dead.
a perk that gives a whole team constant information with no actual counter play with a downside for only one of the survivors and its isn't even that bad is not ok or balanced regardless of how uncommon it is to go against.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1714471#Comment_1714471
The only two killers that are going to be affected to any real degree by a solo player with OoO is Hag and Trapper. Which is fine. There are perks that counter certain killers. Spinechill counters stealth killers. It’s only broken when a swf is using it and using it well.
dont forget freddy, once your in dream word you have constant information and he can't even mind game you and you even see him place snares so playing safe at pallets is ridiculously easy.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Yes, even for four-man SWF.
Four-man SWF already usually know where the killer is, so OoO doesn't give all that much additional information. It also has very real drawbacks: showing your aura to to the killer, preventing you from efficiently scanning your immediate area for pallets/windows/totems to avoid revealing your aura, and even somewhat ironically preventing you from visually locating for the killer when it's clearly disadvantageous for you to show your aura (such as when the killer has built up a lot of pressure and you need to come intervene, or when you're on death hook). It's also actively detrimental against stealth killers, because you can only basically see what half of the map they're on in exchange for them knowing your exact location.
Much like SWF in general, the theoretical ceiling of OoO is quite high, especially on certain maps and against certain killers. In practice, I think it's fine. I'm not surprised in the slightest that the devs haven't noticed OoO boosting survival rates.
actually without OoO you can only give vague information on the killer such as if he is heading a certain direction or is in a certain area and that ends when you dont have sight on the killer. OoO allows for you to give detailed information constantly regardless of where you are other than inside the TR and thats a big difference. a great example is if the killer is looping your friend and you tell your friend every move the killer makes such as moon walking or faking out. A simple word such as "reverse or turn" can tell your friend to go the other way and that wastes a lot of the killers time. what makes OoO brokenly OP is the information it provides to a swf and how its used with how broken it is corresponding to how skillful the user is at providing information and their looping skills to waste time if they get chased.
with OoO you can always tell you team the killers position at all times which can be used for even higher coordination to the point where if the killer goes for anyone other than the OoO providing that the OoO is giving constant information it allows for survivors to leave area's or get to loops before the killer can even see them.
If your not good at looping you dont run the perk meaning if your good and plan to waste time for your team as they do gens the killer is screwed unless they outplay you until you die which on certain maps like Ormond is extremely hard. in a way if you plan on your team winning and not individual survival this is the best perk for that and because getting chased gives a lot of points and even emblem score the survivor often wins anyway in terms of points/pips.
against stealth killers this perk works like a constant premonition and if you have map knowledge its not hard to figure out the killers general location. sure on some maps it is pretty bad against stealth killers like in The Game but on most maps simply knowing the direction of the killer is enough to spot them fast enough to get to a loop. stealth killers are also pretty bad in a chase so a good survivor with OoO can just take the initial hit if they fail to spot the killer fast enough/guess if he is coming and then just loop normally and waste a ton of time.
the perk is fine if its on a solo survivor but the existence of swf makes this perk brokenly OP so it has to be changed with the existence of swf in mind so it can't be so abusable. the fact that it destroys trapper, hag, and freddy alone justifies it to be changed.
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never will happen regarding any topic on balance
people are often biased for one side or the other with few that aren't, i consider myself slightly biased for killers and that's from my experience in this game playing certain killers against unwinnable matches and seeing X killer or just general gameplay flaws. survivors see how quickly they get downed or struggle to deal with X thing and that's their experience and since the killer is stronger than a single survivor they often see it not as their team vs that thing but themselves being at a massive disadvantage against X thing. just look at all the death slinger complaints he is good at 1v1's and that's literally it so he can be easily rushed and beaten by a decent survivors but it can still feel unfair to play against him.
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well i think-*demonic screeching*-would probably be the best change for him
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711720#Comment_1711720
okay, again: i am NOT trying to buff him, as he is mostly fine the way he currently is. i am aiming for a QUALITY OF LIFE update.
"you want aware players to always be awarded even if they spot him late" that makes no sense, your entire idea is based on exactly that.
"i want there to still be a chance for wraith to get close enough to land a hit" exactly, thats what you want: free hits. and i keep telling you to stop asking the devs to give you free hits, its not going to happen. put some work into it yourself if you want to achieve a hit. sneaking up on them and getting an early hit is already very easy with him, you just want there to be no chance of avoiding him anymore - especially with windstorm + swift hunt add ons.
"are you really telling me that if a player see's wraith and i'll be generous at 24 meters or over than you will be able to get to them before they make it pretty much any pallet in the other direction" - no. thats the point. if you get seen, they avoid you. if i were to rewrite that sentence, it would basically be "survivors should not be able to reach a pallet / window before i hit them when they spot me", aka asking for free hits.
ill sum it up here:
getting close to a survivor is something YOU as the player should achieve.
you are not ment to always get right on top of them, just because you are cloaked, if you take a bad pathing they will (and are ment to) spot you and avoid you.
stop trying to suck anything skillbased out of this game, asking the devs to introduce mechanics that do it for you. if you keep getting spotted, then rethink the way you are playing and improve.
If you seriously think wraiths fine as he is then after this response dont bother responding because i whole heartedly disagree with that and will argue to the death :)
your saying he doesn't need a buff based on unreliable stats that dont represent reality for a killer who is agreed to be weak by the majority of the community. take a look at nurse or huntress they obviously are worse than wraith based on stats. dont go by stats that the devs even said are not reliable for representation of how games go.
16 meters isn't a free hit im just gunna throw that at you because you dont seem to understand the distance of that then and 32 meters wont do anything for wraith who needs a buff sorry i disagree with you on him being in a good spot.
no i have repeatedly said that 16 meters is enough to get to a pallet within a reasonable distance which is a tile or two if you spot wraith because he has to come out of his cloak. that distance gives you enough time to react to him and if not then it still doesn't need to be a ridiculous 32 meters it just has to be adjusted slightly. yes his speed addons will be strong and may need looking into but that can be changed if its problematic and maybe even give him a base speed buff in cloak to compensate however this is about his base power not the addons that can be adjusted if he gets changed.
this buff isn't to standardize wraith its to BUFF him, making him a better stealth killer with mobility who you cant spot from a distance. you seem to greatly overestimate how fast wraith can close 16 meters and uncloak in the open without being seen which AGAIN is what this will mainly change about him because it wont do anything if you approach from cover. 16 metes in the open isn't a free hit i dont understand how you arrived to that because its ridiculous if the survivor is paying attention which they should be doing.
i want a better stealthy wraith you just want him to not be spotted form large distances when 32 meters itself is large. the majority of the community thinks he needs a buff what you suggest doesn't do anything for him because it wont affect chases/down time. he will be able to land more hits out of cloak yes does that make them free? no that ridiculous its not like he can instantly uncloak now he just gets to you easier from an open area and still has to uncloak behind cover or you see him not to mention spine chill still counters him and thats a common perk.
this buff suggestion sticks to what wraith is at the heart which is a high mobility stealth killer and improves the stealth aspect. that doesn't make him OP or skilless because of course a buff makes a killer better which in turn makes them easier and thats UNAVOIDABLE with wraiths basic ability. Im assuming you also think the leatherface rework makes leatherface skilless now right? because thats basically what this is but its less powerful and it doesn't do anything in a chase. Even if gets him way more hits from cloak then thats what he needs because he is weak and having a more reliable chance to start off a chase with a hit is a good buff for him.
again if it does turn out that 16 meters is too short it doesn't need that much more distance to be fair and as i said anything over 24 meters or even at that would render the buff pointless. this isn't standardize him he needs a buff and idc if you think that makes him skilless which imo stupid because it doesn't change how you play him it just makes him invisible to survivors outside a reasonable distance.
edit: i should mention that im not in the mindset of a rank 10 survivor like you are. you see a survivor on a gen you have to go for them avoiding them is dumb. survivors will spot you going for them at long distances and using cover isn't always available just take a look at any auto weaker map and if there is cover then NOTHING changes about how that encounter would have went.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711665#Comment_1711665
i know how much 32m is, im fully aware of the distance.
the question is, do you have any idea how short 16m would be?
thats basically a free hit you are asking for rn.
as i said, i do NOT want this to be a "i want free hits" tool, i want this to be a QoL change that fits his power and makes sense to implement. one where ive been wondering for a long time now why it isnt a thing in the first place. im not aiming to buff him majorly, he is mostly fine the way he is right now.
and if everyone gets notified of a normal killer within a 32m range to them, i dont see why aware survivors shouldnt be able to see your husk in the same range. its not like they get told you are there like with every other killer. there are no audio clues, there is no huge outstanding playmodel with a red shimmer in front of it, you should be able to get close to them relatively easily, as you currently already can.
i say its BS how they can see you on the other side of the map, even though you are cloaked. the info they should be able to get on you in that state should be limited (limited - not fully taken away), so seeing nothing of you outisde of 32m to them would do that job just great.
again: if you want to get close, at least put a little work into it by avoiding sightlines. dont just ask the devs to do your job for you.
as i put go look into that distance yourself and for aware player 16 meters is a good distance. 32 does nothing other than limit info at long range so this buff will do almost nothing in open maps which what im trying to address.
you want aware players to always be awarded even if they spot him late i want there to still be a chance for wraith to get close enough to land a hit as well as limit the range survivors see him so he is an actual stealth killer in open maps. this buff does nothing unless the player is in the open.
are you really telling me that if a player see's wraith and i'll be generous at 24 meters or over than you will be able to get to them before they make it pretty much any pallet in the other direction. the only way you getting to them first is speed addons which are his best addons and even then its not guaranteed as always.
that doesn't do anything then, again this is so he has a better chance to get player in the open. 32 meters is practically the distance you see him at anyway most of the time in the match. again this buff doesn't do anything unless you have a clear line of sight in the direction wraith is so enclosed areas or gens on the side of the map will barely see any changes to how you see wraith sneak up on you.
i dont see a reason for it not to be 16 meters, it doesn't make him OP and you dont get free hits if you actually knew how much that distance is.
edit: if you want it can be AT MOST 24 meters but as i've said i believe 16 meters is the best distance otherwise this fails to help him get close in open maps.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711636#Comment_1711636
I'm just not sure he needs to be any better. Let's be honest, it isn't his distortion that is really giving him away. It is Spine Chill and the SWF. All the Stealth Killers are feeling this impact more and more. Remember, I'm a Myers exclusive Killer until I hit Rank-1. I prefer Spooky Myers as my build. The biggest issue I have to overcome is Spine Chill and the SWF's 5th Perk (Comms). Even if you did shrink the range that the Wraith's distortion becomes visible, it wouldn't help you against anyone but the POOR Solos who don't need another anvil dropped on their head. :) How do I know this? I play Solo Que, we few, we proud, we determined to play the game without Seal Team-6 Coordination. :)
The SWF will still give them your position. Spine Chill will still tell them the second you line up and they will start moving. I just think your concern about efficacy in this case is misplaced.
swf wont be able to give away your position as easily because you wont be visible unless they are close to you
spine chill will work on wraith regardless of what they do to him because thats just how the perk works against stealth killers
it is VERY much so the distortion that gives him away, you can literally see him across the map like only cover prevents you from seeing him so this combined with swf always gives you position which this buff greatly lessens.
this literally addresses what you say it wont and as said nothing can be done about spine chill as it works like that against all stealth killers. will this make him be able to deal with swf maybe not but its a buff that will help him without making him op. it helps get surprise hits and makes him a true fast stealth killer.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711628#Comment_1711628
spotting him early is part of his counterplay though.
thats why he is barely visible in the first place, so aware players can see him approach and avoid him.
if you wanna sneak up to them to that distance, you should put some work into it, not just ask the devs to give it to you for free.
32m (the size of a normal Terror Radius) is imo a great distance, as it allows survivors to spot Wraiths who dont really care about their pathing, but you wont be seen approaching them from half the map away.
then this does nothing, do know how large 32 meters is? the point of this is so players dont see him at long distances until is close, 16 meters is close but not by much good players can still see him at that range and get to a pallet in time.
this is to address him in open maps if its at 32 meters it might as well not do anything because players will see him from afar and do what they normally do against him.
there is nothing wrong with a slightly strong buff to an underwhelming killer. perceptive players are still rewarded it just wont be as easy to spot him as quickly to get good distance and there is nothing wrong with that.
edit: go into a custom match and play against a hag with monitor and abuse. when you hear the TR that is the range you will be able to see him. tell me thats not a good range and its enough distance to spot him coming in the open without you being able to get a crazy amount of distance from running as soon as you see him.
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@Moundshroud said:
I went back and reviewed the Pick/Kill Stats and Wraith is picked about 4% of the time and his Kill percentage is 66.6%. That puts him 10% above the bottom Killer and 10% less than the top Killer. In short, he is part of a very wide middle field. The notion that he is weak or suffering has turned out to be as inaccurate as the idea that the Pig isn't good. She turns out to be doing quite well. People used to tell me my Myers was bad too, but lo' and behold, he isn't.
I just think there is this risk where perception become reality. People say the Wraith is weak and has problems long enough and people start to believe it. The numbers say otherwise. He is fine. I say leave his cool Predator distortion in.
dude even the devs said not to use the stats as reference because they don't show the game in reality. its either a 4k/3k or less then 1k which is why the kill rates across all killers is mostly above 65%. if we are to look at how well a good wraith does compared to huntress or deathslinger he is obviously worse but because he is played more and has a lower skill cap he can get more kills across the board where as huntress and deathslinger have a lot of players who just suck at them. its kinda hard to suck at wraith XD.
besides there is no reason to not buff him, he is underwhelming so regardless of the stats he is still eligible for a buff.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711588#Comment_1711588
As a Survivor a am perpetually between 7-9 (I got to a 6 once for a few days). I'm a Rank-4 Killer driving for Rank-1. The biggest thing holding back Wraith as a Killer is how Players use him, not his toolkit. I've fought so many Wraiths in the last month it isn't even funny. In my experience, potent or baby Wraiths don't do the same Generator patrols as other Killers. Because of their invisibility, they tend to be a bit more random. They are all over the place because they can afford to be in general. The Wraiths that I fought that did the basics, i.e. regular patrols and taking information Perks made very swift work of us.
How good is he when you hit the Red Ranks? I've nod idea as I'm not a Red Rank Survivor. But I don't judge a Killer on how they perform at the very top of the pyramid. I judge them on how they do middle of the pack. The recent numbers released didn't show the Wraith doing that badly at all, no where NEAR the bottom.
I play him pretty often at high ranks and really the only times i can get land an uncloaking hit besides in a chase is if they are on a gen that has very limited line of sight like the ones in jungle gyms. if a gens in the open you can't sneak up on people they just go to a pallet when you try to approach. this wouldn't change how often you get hits on gens with limited line of sight by that much its mainly to give survivors less information on his location so he can be more unpredictable and so he can have more reasonable chases when approaching survivors in the open.
also you have to take those stats with a grain of salt since wraith is the most picked killer in lower ranks and killers often tend to dominate those ranks as well. he isn't good at high rank unless you get an indoor map and even then he isn't OP. As said this will simply make him better in open maps.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1711584#Comment_1711584
but there is a difference between spotting an approaching Wraith early and constantly seeing him walk around on the other side of the map.
i mean, his cloak is supposed to be a stealth ability, but its ridiculously easy to consistently keep track of him.
at least let him stay hidden on long distances. imo a 32m radius where his husk is visible should be more than enough to spot and avoid him.
thats a lot of distance too much imo thats why i said 8 to 16 meters because in that range wraith has a better chance to get to the survivor unnoticed. anything above 16 meters will result in survivors being able to spot him early and get to a pallet at a great distance that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten to the same or slightly lesser degree then how often that happens right now. im not saying that won't happen anymore if it was at 16 meters im just saying that the distance has to be shortish for this buff to be good.
If this was implemented i think 16 meters is the sweet spot and if they introduced addons to reduce that it should only go to at most 8 meters and it should be an ultra or very rare addon.
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@BattleCast said:
I do think wraith does need some help but I would personally disagree with this change. Perceptive players should be rewarded.
I’d much rather he move faster while cloaked.
preceptive players are rewarded they can see him if he's near you. thats why i said 8-16 meters and if this was implemented it would likely be at 16 meters, thats enough time if you spot him to get to a pallet at a reasonable distance.
this is to make him better at being able to get surprise hits and as he is thats very difficult unless there are wall to cover you. as he is unless there is cover you can spot him literally across the map if you have good eye sight. this wouldn't or at most barely benefit him in indoor maps this mainly to address open maps.
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@Moundshroud said:
Because Wraith can be tough enough to deal with already? :) He is the FASTEST of the Stealth Killers with his Add-On(s), and a Survivor's best defense is to spot him quick to get the maximum head start.
and thats what makes him such a bad killer, good survivors always spot him early. even with this buff players can still have time to react they just can't make it to a pallet from a dead zone which is fair.
think of ghost face but take away his insta down, are all the hits he gets from being in shroud make him OP? no and ghost face gets them all the time more so than wraith because he attacks faster with less of a indicator that he is going to hit you. that will basically be wraith but with map pressure and a more react-able surprise attack if a survivor is paying attention.
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@BattleCast said:
Surge is soooooo slept on. I've been using it in my Legion build as my only slow-down for the past ~200 games and its done an amazing job. The buff it got recently has definitely made me even more addicted to the perk.
replace it with just ruin and unless the perk gets cleansed right away which is not too rare but uncommon enough to run it then you will get way more early game pressure which can carry you to a win.
my legion runs ruin, spirit fury, enduring, and blood echo and i just go on a killing spree after i get 3 survivors with frenzy. they want their exhaustion perks so they also often heal which takes around 30 seconds which ruin is regressing gens and if they play safe i get them after the first or second loop. during this time gen progress is practically dead until ruin is cleansed. by the time its cleansed i usually have 3 to 5 hooks with 1 or no gens done.
edit: like just making someone mend after using frenzy takes away more progress on that gen then surge can and your doing that constantly compared to how many times you get surge to activate.
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ruin+undying on the right killer like legion or blight is better than surge+ruin. this is especially true if the killer your playing often lands their secondary attack because surge doesn't work if you down someone with one.
tbh i would run surge more often if the regress % was slightly higher at like 15% or if it worked for non basic attacks or even if the cooldown was removed. as it is if your running a killer that often lands a non basic attack i would run pop on them instead of ruin+surge or undying and find a second perk that works well on them.
I feel like the perk just gets outshined by pgtw since its poor regression compared to pop along with its cooldown makes it not desirable unless you want to ignore gens as nurse or something.
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grinds hours for all exclusive cosmetics in the past since 2017 only for all players get it for literally no good reason other than they don't want exclusives to be a thing other than legacy.
now they release exclusives that are not only hard to get they are code locked and we have to watch hours of streams when we would rather play the game for the exclusive. *clap clap clap* screw whoever is responsible for that decision.