Heliosse
Heliosse
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4120003#Comment_4120003
As a huge Aliens / Predator fan myself, probably my biggest fanbase, and xeno being my first big tattoo on the back, having played every game, seen all the movies, read about 60% of the comics, atleast 4 or 5 novels, Xeno would be my number 1 pick if it werent for the turrets lol. I just dislike how they are either 100% in the killer's favor (they do nothing and you break them with ease never getting kicked out of power) or 100% in the survivor's favor (swf teams setting up entire multi turret safe zones they all pre run to the same area - which is rare but quite annoying when it happens).
And did you mean this one?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EW39LW2WPGPW/dracsghost.jpg
Cuz thats the first true form im not sure if you meant that by original.
Probably this one when u mention green. Which was also blue at one point
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/80XGHVMX0173/draculabeast.jpg
I do not have a tatoo, as i am not fond of them, but i do have novels, the RPGs, comics and other items in my Alien collection. Did you read Phalanx ?
The turrets do not really bother me, they aren't that big of a deal gameplay wise (hot take i know) and they feel really thematic for the Alien which i really love. The killer would be absolute perfection if it had more access/exit points to the tunnels to really enhance the Alien Isolation formula (alongside some tweaks here and there).
It would enhance cutoffs, reduce turrets impact, allow more ambushes, more stealth, more mobility, it would be all around amazing.
My biggest gripe with Alien in DbD is the tail because it isn't that interesting. It does not have orbital or the tiny hitbox of deathslinger, no grab, no side mechanic attached to it, it's painfully basic. I know there are techs and slingshots etc. But they are also really basic. Having only 4.8 meters to play is really bad.
You exit the cool part of your power, then you get pre runned to turrets, then after breaking the turrets, you can play but survivors almost can't do anything about it (let's be honest, you miss more than they dodge, most of the time, we blame collision or other things but we just missed, it's copium).
I would have loved to be a pure stealth killer, even with some turrets shenanigans. Still, the power design is faithfull, can't argue with that and i do love the killer, but i wished for something a bit more ... immersive.
That's the only part of the Isolation that is lacking, we have the vents, the motion tracker, the flamethrower and the lethality. But the lethality isn't really interesting so the killer feels repetitive very fast. Many people love Wesker because "you can do cool moves",yet you have a very basic power "dash" but it allows you to do x or y. The lethality of the Xenomorph could have been a bit more like that, because the tail is too simple for it's own good.
For the tweaks, something like that :
- More tunnels
- Bigger footsteps detection radius
- Slightly faster exit speed
- Turret economy rework (so you can actually deplete them and have a use for Ash's innards)
- Turrets firing ranges cannot coexist (no double turrets)
- Short lingering indetectable after exiting the tunnels
I still worry about survivors counterplay because the tail is very lethal and survivors just drop like flies. I don't see how to nerf it in a healthy way tho ...
As for the OG Dracula form, yes, it's this one ! I know that a lot of people were first introduced to it with Smash Bros and Dead Cell so the green is the new default, but you are right, it was blue in the original.
I really hope we can see a modern take on this Dracula boss one day. Nothing to lose in base dracula into Black night for the true form was super cool. We have it in Smash but it's not the same.
Have you played V Rising ? If not, you could like it.
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The Xenomorph !!!
I love the tunnels so much and most of my problems are with the core game more than the Xenomorph's kit itself. The game itself does not set up enough "horror base" to really allow the killer to play around, it's a cat and mouses game at the end of the day. I am really expecting the graphics and weather changes to have an impact on the atmosphere of the game. I don't mind the tail, love the turrets, move the animations and sound design, adore the tunnels, it's awesome.
I am excited for shenanigans with the new insidious as it can longer out of tunnels and create some interesting mind games.
As for Dracula, i agree, he is also one of my favorite, probably :
1 - Xenomorph
2 - Springtrap
3 - Pyramid Head
4 - Dracula
5 - Nemesis
I prefer the original "True Form", the big greenish monster bat, over the version of CotM but to each their own.
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Sorry for the very long post. I'm a bit too passionate about Alien, so bear with me.
I genuinely think Xenomorph is one of the best adaptations in DbD.
The Tail is simple but efficient. The real power is the tunnels. They aren't just teleports, they are a second map where Xeno can move, listen, predict rotations and intercept Survivors. It is basically the Alien: Isolation dynamic translated into DbD.
Turrets complete the design faithfully. Survivors deploy detection systems around the map and use fire to repel the Alien. Everything feeds into everything. It doesn't just sprinkle Alien references everywhere, it creates an actual Alien dynamic.
Xeno has problems, of course. Tunnel placement can suck, some maps have huge dead zones, several add-ons are terrible and the game barely teaches you how much you can actually do with the tunnels. The Tail is so immediately effective that many players barely scratch the surface of the macro available and focus on flashy Tail hits.
And there are also some complaints that are, frankly, skill issues:
"I am an M1 all game." This should basically never happen outside of double Turret setups. Get into your tunnels instead of walking around. Crawler Mode comes back in less than 5 seconds underground, so you should be able to retaliate faster than Survivors can place double Turrets. Getting burned out of Crawler Mode by a single Turret should be very rare, not the norm. With 125 charges on Crawler Mode and a Turret burning 66 charges/s, you have almost 1.89 seconds to turn around and Tail Strike the Turret. I actually think Helmet and Star Map are traps since single Turrets are usually not enough, while double Turrets will almost always knock you out of Crawler Mode anyway.
"Turrets invalidate stealth." Not really. If you approach through tunnels, Survivors usually don't react until the beeping becomes threatening. You're moving at 18 m/s underground and can already be emerging by the time they start running. As for normal stealth, yes, Turrets counter it under certain conditions. That's the point. Motion trackers are iconic to Alien, Aliens and Alien: Isolation. Survivors detecting the Alien is as much a part of the franchise as the Alien stalking them. And since a Turret needs to be near the Survivor to provide useful information, it doesn't invalidate stealth everywhere all the time anyway. More importantly, Xeno has its own form of stealth with the tunnels.
"Turrets should be deleted, the Tail isn't strong enough to warrant them." Turrets aren't just a balancing tax for Crawler Mode. They're part of the adaptation. That's why Springtrap has cameras while Jason doesn't have some random mechanic stapled onto him. And Crawler Mode is pretty damn strong anyway.
I don't want Xeno reworked. I want the existing power improved.
More Control Stations would be the single best change. Less RNG, more mobility, more stealth, more cut-offs, more ambush opportunities and more ways to approach Turrets intelligently. It strengthens basically everything interesting about the Alien: Isolation formula without replacing it. People who played A:I will remember how vents were everywhere, meaning the Alien could ambush you at any time. In DbD, there are too few stations, heavily restricting that potential. I understand limiting this kind of mobility for other Killers, but Xeno should have more focus on this aspect of its power. It should be closer to Dredge in that regard, so it "could be anywhere."
Double Turrets should probably be prevented altogether. Turrets should reward good coverage and distance, not stacking two together to almost guarantee a power loss.
Turrets should also be a more precious resource. Right now you effectively cannot deplete them with 7 stations, 4 Turrets per station, each with its own regeneration. There is barely a resource economy to manage.
Then we could give Xeno some QoL like faster tunnel exits, a slight Haste effect like Sadako, an add-on pass and a very short lingering stealth effect when exiting a station.
Add-ons should also reinforce the correct gameplay loop. Harpoon Gun and Acidic Blood are good designs in principle, even if their actual effects aren't necessarily good (Harpoon is OP though), because going back into your tunnels lets you reset them. Ovomorph is the exact opposite, it's a terrible add-on because it rewards staying above ground and teaches new players bad habits. Too many Xeno players already ignore the tunnels or use them two or three times per match.
It's perfectly fine not to enjoy playing such a unique Killer. Xeno is the only Killer in the game with both a counterpower like Turrets and an entire secondary map like the tunnels. I understand why some people prefer simpler Killers: a teleport "from A to B" where you can't get lost in it (heard someone say that...), a ranged attack or dash with no counter mechanic at all, traditional stealth, etc. I also understand those who are disappointed because this isn't the version of the Alien they wanted. I personally understand the Facehugger crowd more, wall crawling does exists throughout Alien media, but it's AvP that heavily emphasized that fantasy.
I think calling it unfaithful is just dishonest. Xenomorph is incredibly unique while being extremely accurate to its source material. From the gameplay loop and even the lobby animation, I'm pretty sure Alien: Isolation was the main inspiration for the power, while most of the visuals, sounds and references come directly from the original Alien. It isn't an unfaithful adaptation. It's a very specific interpretation of the Alien, and you may simply not like that interpretation.
At the end of the day, the dynamic of "very strong Killer in chase and Survivor tools designed to slow it down" was always going to be divisive (and unique). I understand why some people simply don't enjoy it.
But in terms of franchise coherence and thematics? It's immaculate.
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@AshleyWB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087079#Comment_4087079
Putting it a different way, I just think that they played it safe with xeno, maybe because they didn't want to overwhelm those the chapter would bring with anything too elaborate.
From a mechanics sense it is about going from point a to point b for many killers and I'm not going to tell myself that each killer having it's very similar way of doing so pretty slowly is exciting. Some give you more freedom like demo but I'm not personally a fan of popping out the map and appearing elsewhere, it moves all pressure I have on the survivors for a guess at where they could be.
I'm maybe not explaining it the best but there's a reason I don't stick to playing these kinds of killers
I always mix the ring and the grudge up😅
That's fair.
I think the main difference is that I don't really view Xeno's tunnels as a teleport.
When I play Demo, I'm usually thinking about mobility.
When I play Xeno, I'm thinking about information and ambushes.
Checking generator progress, hearing footsteps, identifying weak targets, intercepting rotations and deciding where to emerge is what makes the killer interesting to me.
The pressure doesn't really disappear when I go underground. If anything, that's when I'm making the most decisions.
I do agree that not everyone enjoys that style of gameplay though. Some people prefer killers that keep constant visual pressure on survivors rather than temporarily disappearing from the map.
As for the "safe design" part, that's actually where I'd disagree the most. Love it or hate it, Xeno is one of the most mechanically unique killers in the game.
Motion Trackers, Flamethrowers, Control Stations, tunnels, Crawler Mode and a ranged attack are a lot of moving pieces for a single killer.
Ironically, I think this touches on something the DbD community often struggles with.
People regularly ask for more unique killer designs, yet the most played and most popular killers tend to be ranged killers, dash killers or straightforward chase killers. Meanwhile, killers built around unusual systems often end up much lower in pick rate despite being perfectly viable.
Pinhead, Twins, Hag, Sadako, Knight, Dredge and Xenomorph have all experienced that to some extent.
I don't think that's because they're weak. I think it's because unique mechanics demand adaptation from both sides, and not everyone enjoys that.
So I completely understand not liking Xeno's gameplay loop. I just wouldn't call it a safe design. If anything, I think its uniqueness is part of the reason it's so divisive.
For what it's worth, I actually think many community concepts prove the opposite point. People often come up with very creative ideas, but making them function in an actual DbD match without becoming frustrating, overly complex or simply ineffective is much harder than it looks. Having a cool concept and having a good design aren't always the same thing.
So while Xeno may not be everyone's cup of tea, I think BHVR took more risks with it than people sometimes give them credit for.
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@AshleyWB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084636#Comment_4084636
The killers that have a kind of "skin" for the teleportation between points a to b come across as boring and unimaginative to me but at the same time it's what ideas are able to fit in the game so I can't call it disappointment because what our version of perfection is is often unachievable, which is a bummer but sometimes things by change line up like a masterstroke.
The teleportation skin thing, I mean when demo, xeno and animatronic do when they enter something to them come out across the map. It feels like the ideas that would have been more exciting had to shrink down to something new but the same.
Now with killers like the grudge killer, her video tape and TV teleportation just is something pulled off really well in comparison, it's unique, it fits perfectly and it doesn't come across as creative ideas were made to shrink what the current development can allow.
I was super glad to see Xeno in dbd, the map is bleh, the Ellen Ripley is bleh and the xeno seems more like one from colonial marines where it's not a menacing scheming threat imo granted I haven't played as them but I've watched maybe 20 matches of xeno played so my take might not be 100% accurate, it's the vibe I get and overall Alien is a very flat imo. Still grateful that they're in the game though, some welcome variety.
I think part of the disconnect comes from what you expect Alien to be.
Also, slight correction: Sadako is from The Ring, not The Grudge.
As for the "teleportation skin" argument, I don't really agree. Demo, Xeno and Springtrap all move from point A to point B, but the gameplay surrounding that movement is completely different.
Demo chooses where to place portals. Xeno uses an underground network to gather information and intercept survivors. Springtrap moves through the Backstage while remaining unseen. If we reduce all of them to "they go from A to B", then Sadako also falls into the same category.
The difference is what happens around the movement.
As for Alien, I think BHVR's design makes much more sense when viewed through the lens of Alien: Isolation rather than the movies alone.
Motion Trackers, Flamethrowers, vents, information gathering, survivors setting up defenses, sudden emergence... that's basically the entire chapter.
You can absolutely find it flat or not scary enough, that's subjective. But I don't think BHVR was trying to recreate the movie experience 1:1. I think they were trying to recreate Isolation within the constraints of Dead by Daylight.
Whether they succeeded is up for debate, but personally I think it's one of their most faithful adaptations.
I also think part of Xeno's reputation comes from the turrets.They ask both sides to engage with a unique system.
Most killers in DbD are ultimately trying to hit you faster, better or from a different angle. Xenomorph asks survivors to set up defenses, manage resources and think about map control. That's a very different dynamic.
Interestingly, some of the most unique killers in the game tend to have lower pick rates despite being perfectly viable. Pinhead, Twins, Hag, Sadako and Dredge have all experienced this at various points.
I don't think that's because they're weak. I think it's because unique mechanics often demand more adaptation from both sides.
Whether someone enjoys that or not is another discussion entirely. -
@Rock_KBob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084758#Comment_4084758
I really appreciate you setting up your response on this the way you did and can tell you put so much thought into it! To start, I think I’m moving out of the understanding phase of Xeno and more into the trying to improve on that understanding and capitalize. I have nearly 4k hours in the game, but only within the last 3 months have I really started focusing on Xeno, so that might enlighten you/others on where I’m at to some extent.
Your specific build suggestion is honestly disgusting, and I LOVE it! To further the scream potential, do you think switching one out with Hex: Face the Darkness would work? I assume despite the turrets giving me away that being in the tunnels would count the survivors as “being outside of the terror radius” right? Genuinely thank you for suggesting this as is. I don’t run Hexes too often so this sounds like fun.
you can strafe it as long as it doesn't collide with anything except turrets. You can aim slightly beside a survivor and drag the tail into them. You can hit two turrets, or a turret and a survivor (in that order), or even shoot over certain obstacles and drag the tail down onto someone behind cover.
To this point, my question is, does strafing work/feel similar to Nemi’s? As mentioned, I’m on console and find for Nemi I rarely get successful hits when moving my camera (mouse for pc), but rather dragging my character (WASD for pc) to the side nearly always hits. I’ve tried employing the same type movement for Xenomorph, but not hitting consistently it seems. Could just be I’m still not use to him though.
Again , thank you so much for your thoughtful response!
Glad it helped !
For Face the Darkness, it can definitely work, but perk slots are tight. Ruin / Undying / Thrill is the core of the build, so Hive Mind would be the obvious perk to replace.
Face the Darkness would make the build even more resistant, but Hive Mind is so precise that, as long as Ruin is still standing, it can completely lock down the game. Personally, I'd probably leave it as is.
You won't be able to protect your Hexes forever anyway. Some matches will see the entire build disappear within a couple of minutes. That's just the nature of Hexes. Most of the time though, the build does some serious heavy lifting.
While underground, you are Undetectable, so yes, Face the Darkness will work.
One thing to keep in mind, though, is that tunnel depth varies significantly from map to map. Some tunnels are very close to the surface while others are surprisingly deep.
This can have a huge impact on your ability to gather information. The main building on Nostromo is a nightmare because generators and survivors are practically heaven-high above you, making it very difficult to hear anything. Meanwhile, Ormond is fantastic because you can often hear a Lara breathing right above your head.
Some tunnel layouts are amazing for information gathering, while others are much less forgiving, so be mindful of that.
As for the Tail Attack, the horizontal strafe works almost exactly like Nemesis. The main difference is that Nemesis can hit a wall and still drag the whip into a survivor, whereas Xenomorph immediately enters the miss animation whenever the tail collides with something other than a survivor.
You'll see the tail snap back and Xeno wiggle it in front of the camera.
Xeno technically has a slightly better strafe window than Nemesis (0.333s vs 0.4s), but honestly, you barely feel the difference in practice.
Then there's the vertical strafe, what we call the "guillotine". It's much more finicky. You use it to scan an area vertically, similar to how Nemesis scans horizontally. If done correctly, you can even hit someone standing behind another survivor or hit people from very unusual angles.
For example, on RPD, there's a generator next to the burning helicopter. When you approach that area from the helicopter side, survivors will often run down the stairs. They'll either enter RPD through the door immediately at the bottom of the staircase or continue around the staircase and enter through the lower hallway near the save room and restrooms.
If they choose the second option, you can launch the tail from the top of the stairs and perform a nearly 90-degree vertical scan to hit someone below you. It's flashy and the stars need to align, but Xeno has a surprising number of those "demonic hits" available.
There's a Reddit post called "Xenomorph tail hitbox visualized over large obstacles." that does a great job showing how the tail hitbox actually works.
It also shows a small gap in the Ormond staircase that you can shoot your tail through. Those tail shenanigans are both fun and effective because most people don't really know what this killer is capable of. They often won't react to it at all.
Don't collide with anything except survivors. Turrets are effectively empty space for the tail.
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Hello,
Don't worry too much about builds yet.
Focus on understanding the killer.
Learn, at your own pace, how to use the Tail Attack, how to play around turrets and how to get value from the tunnels.
Once you understand what aspect of the killer you enjoy most, whether it's chase, stealth, macro, ambushes or information gathering, you'll naturally find perks that complement your playstyle.
I don't really know what to recommend because I don't know you. Some people will tell you to read MrHeadache's guide and watch his videos, but my best advice would honestly be to stop reading advice for a while.
Play some matches. Struggle. Lose. Find your style. Vibe with the killer (the most important advice, have fun).
Eventually, all the pieces will start falling into place and you'll figure out whether the killer is for you, and if it is, what kind of build suits you best.
If you really want something strong, I'd recommend the Hex build with Harpoon Gun, as it's probably one of the strongest things Xeno can do right now. It naturally encourages frequent tunnel usage instead of relying solely on the Tail Attack. It will teach you the fundamentals while still being very powerful.Build:
- Hex: Ruin
- Hex: Undying
- Hex: Hive Mind
- Hex: Thrill of the Hunt
Add-ons: - Harpoon Gun
- Self-Destruct Bolt
Gameplan:
Once you exit a tunnel, Harpoon Gun will activate for 30 seconds and make any survivor farther than 16 meters from you scream whenever another survivor loses a health state. Your Hexes will be difficult to cleanse, you'll have a ton of information and the mobility to pressure everyone and their ancestors.This build teaches you not to overcommit, how to deal with turrets, how to pressure through tunnels and how to use the Tail Attack effectively. The tail part will come naturally anyway since you'll be using it constantly.
As for the infamous turrets, break them on sight.
That's it.
Don't overthink them.Think about the whole picture like key generators, ressources, survivors positioning etc.
So break them, evaluate whether the chase is still worth pursuing after the distance you lost, then either go underground or continue the chase.
One important thing about the Tail Attack is that you can strafe it as long as it doesn't collide with anything except turrets. You can aim slightly beside a survivor and drag the tail into them. You can hit two turrets, or a turret and a survivor (in that order), or even shoot over certain obstacles and drag the tail down onto someone behind cover.
As I said, the Tail Attack is the simplest part of the killer. It will come with practice because it's mostly a mechanical skill. How you use the tunnels and how you approach turrets is what really separates the "scorpion" from the Xenomorph.
Also, remember that the tail follows a descending arc. Aiming slightly higher than you think is often the correct play, otherwise, you'll occasionally hit the pallet or the window instead of the survivor.
Sometimes you'll hit the wall behind them as well, so be mindful of that, precise hits in tight spaces, strafing in open ones.
Don't overthink turrets, again. You can usually reposition faster than survivors can fully set up their defenses. Destroy them, use the tunnels, keep moving and keep applying pressure.
Remember, you can binge 10 hours of Otz content and read everyone's advice, but you'll never be invincible anyway. Sometimes survivors will pre-run perfectly, set up double turrets and deny your ambush.
That's fine.
It happens.
I don't know if this helped, but I hope so.
I hope you find your way with the killer. Once you really connect with the kit, you can do a lot with it, especially on the macro side. -
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084632#Comment_4084632
Exit speed from tunnels?? They tried it in ptb where were his last changes and it didnt worked like you always had your camera pounted to the sky every time you exit tunnel and i was buggy.
For tunnel detection if they increased detection oc survivors because tunnels are still not covering whole map and add some detection of turrets into basekit from tunnel this would work.
He will aleays be left behind due to turrets being his annoying counter and because there are killers with more fun power like nemi,springtrap or upcoming jason unless devs dont screw him on release.
You're right, but I don't think the PTB exit speed is the whole picture.
The PTB reduced the exit time from 2.25s to 1.5s, which was a massive change. It felt amazing to use, but it also broke animations and made ambushes extremely difficult to react to. I don't think Xeno needs anything that extreme.
The main change I'd make isn't even the exit speed, it's more tunnel access points.
Something like:
7 main stations with the flame turrets (unchanged)
7 secondary tunnel entrances without the flame turrets
Footstep detection increased to 24m (from 16m)
Tunnel speed increased to 20 m/s (from 18m/s)
Exit speed reduced slightly to 2s (from 2.25s)
Add-on pass
The tunnels are the most unique part of the kit, yet many games end up being mostly about the Tail Attack. More access points would create more opportunities for tracking, ambushing, intercepting rotations and acting upon the information you gather underground.
To me, the solution isn't reinventing the killer. The foundation is already there. The tunnels just don't feel quite central enough to the gameplay loop.
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Glad you're enjoying him. He's my favorite killer !
While the Tail Attack provides immediate satisfaction as a chase power, I think the tunnels are actually the most interesting part of the kit.
The tail wins chases, but the tunnels brings a macro dimension to the killer that is incredibly satisfying, both from a gameplay perspective and from the fantasy of playing a Xenomorph.
Being able to check generator progress, hear footsteps underground, intercept rotations and ambush survivors feels incredibly rewarding (plus, the visual and audio ambiance are fantastic).
I honestly think there is still a lot of unexplored potential there. We have OnePumpWillie showing what's possible with Sadako's macro game, but I've never really seen a "OnePumpWillie of Xenomorph" pushing the tunnel network to its absolute limit.
What makes that style so interesting to me is that it's less about mechanics and more about information. Anyone can see a generator at 70%, but remembering where every survivors are, predicting where they'll rotate next and using the tunnels to intercept them is much harder. That's where the real depth of killers like Xenomorph, Sadako or Dredge comes from in my opinion.
I really love this adaptation. It captures the Alien : Isolation gameplay loop remarkably well, moving through the vents, gathering information and suddenly appearing with overwhelming lethality.
Survivors, in turn, have to survive the Alien using Motion Trackers and Flamethrowers, just like in Isolation.
I think that's why the turrets don't bother me as much as they bother some other Xeno players. If you get knocked out of Crawler Mode, the tunnels are the answer. You can recover your power, reposition somewhere else and threaten another part of the map before survivors have time to reorganize (and it is very thematic and accurate to the IP).
The Tail Attack gets the highlights, but the tunnels are what made me fall in love with the killer from a gameplay perspective. Then again, it already had me at "being Alien".
I hope you continue to enjoy it !
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Probably Springtrap.
Ironically, I actually love playing him, he's one of my three P100 (Xeno, M. Trap and Pyramid). This isn't a gameplay complaint.
My issue is that I feel the adaptation left a lot of FNaF's identity on the table.
What disappoints me the most is that some of the most interesting ideas were seemingly present at some point during development.
For example, the official website :
"When a Survivor enters a Security Door, they will enter a unique Security Room. They can then cycle through every Camera on the Map, open and close doors, and exit from whichever door they please."
None of that exists in the final version.
The idea of Survivors managing cameras and security systems while Springtrap hunted them felt incredibly thematic. It would have captured a lot of what makes FNaF unique.
Instead, the final power feels much more focused on teleports and chase interactions sprinkled with gimmicks.
I still love the killer, but I think the chapter could have leaned much harder into surveillance, paranoia, cameras and resource management.
Alien is the opposite for me.
A lot of people call Xenomorph disappointing, but I think it's one of the most faithful licensed adaptations in the game.
The tunnels are essentially the vents from Alien: Isolation.
Motion Trackers are straight from Isolation.
Flamethrowers are straight from Isolation.
The Xenomorph moves unseen through the map, listens for prey, emerges suddenly and can be repelled by fire.
It's basically the Alien: Isolation gameplay loop translated into Dead by Daylight.
So while I understand why some people wanted Facehuggers, other mechanics, or simply do not like the gameplay, I never felt Xenomorph misunderstood the source material at all.
Springtrap is the one where I look at what could have been and feel a little disappointed.
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In anticipation, i would like to adress this
"More control stations means more turrets"
My idea was to keep the current 7 primary Control Stations and their turret economy unchanged, while adding secondary tunnel entrances without turret interaction (no case on the rock entrance).
The goal isn't to increase the number of turrets on the map. It's to improve tunnel coverage and make the underground network feel more accessible and rewarding to use.
Even if additional stations did provide turrets, more tunnel access would also mean faster Crawler Mode recovery, more repositioning opportunities and less downtime after being knocked out of power.
In other words, more stations don't automatically mean a survivor buff. It depends entirely on how they're implemented.
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Hello,
I wouldn't nerf turrets, buff stealth or buff the Tail Attack.
I'd buff the tunnels.
The Tail Attack is already strong and doesn't need help. Survivors already complain about it enough and I don't think making Xenomorph an even stronger anti-loop killer would improve the character.
Likewise, I don't think stealth is the answer. Any killer can receive Undetectable effects or a smaller Terror Radius. That doesn't make them feel more like Alien, it just makes them feel more like another stealth killer.
As for turrets, I know many Xeno players dislike them, but I don't think they're a design problem. Motion Trackers and Flamethrowers are straight out of Alien: Isolation and create a dynamic no other killer has. Humans preparing defenses against an overwhelming threat is one of the most thematic aspects of the chapter.
To me, the real issue is that the most unique part of the kit often feels less influential than the visible part of the kit.
Xenomorph is the only killer in the game with an underground network that lets it gather information, track survivors, intercept rotations and choose its targets. That's what makes the killer special. Yet many matches end up revolving around the Tail Attack while the tunnels are mostly used to recharge Crawler Mode a few times per game, or once at the very start.
That's where I'd put the buffs.
More Control Stations, faster tunnel traversal, faster entry and exit speeds and slightly stronger tracking while underground.
The fantasy of Alien is never knowing where the creature is until it suddenly appears. Better tunnels would naturally make Xenomorph stealthier, less predictable, better at acting upon the information it gathers, a stronger ambusher and reduce the impact of Flamethrowers without directly nerfing them.
It would also complete the Alien: Isolation fantasy. In that game, vents are everywhere. The Alien is never far away. You never feel safe because the creature can emerge from almost anywhere at any moment.
To me, the solution is making the tunnels, the most unique and iconic part of its power, more central to its gameplay.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083192#Comment_4083192
Your feelings about the adaptation have nothing to do with the killer's popularity. If the killer was fun to play, people would play it anyway.
And again, I think it is fun. But the overwhelming majority of people hate the flamer turrets to the point they can't derive any enjoyment out of playing the killer. Whenever you hear people talk about why they don't play the xenomorph, the turrets are always the reason why.
In fact a lot of people think the flamer turrets are so good against Xeno that it may as well be an M1 killer. If you put time into mastering the killer, they're not that much of a threat. But I definitely notice how often other Xeno players get knocked out of crawler mode, because they likely don't main it and don't have the built-up reflexes necessary to deal with them quickly.
People hate the turrets so much that they just give up on the killer and go play a different one.
And yet, despite all of that, survivors also don't like Xenomorph because the tail legitimately is one of the best chase powers in the entire game. Due to latency and survivor momentum, it's basically unreactable, even after nerfs to give survivors more time. You have to guess when the Xeno is going to tail whip and be in the process of pre-dodging, as well as hugging terrain which makes it difficult for the Xeno to use its tail at all. It's not like other killers with skill shots where they pull up their axe or whatever to give you a warning to dodge, Xeno can just do it at any time.
They tried something new: a killer with an extremely powerful chase power that has to deal with survivors having an extra weapon against it. It didn't work for the overwhelming majority of players on both sides.
I agree with everything you have said about the Xenomorph. I'm also a Xenomorph enjoyer, a P100 Xeno and a huge fan of the IP.
I think a lot of people confuse "this isn't my ideal Alien adaptation" with "this isn't a good Alien adaptation."
Calling Xenomorph "Nemesis 2.0" feels incredibly unfair when you look at what the killer actually brought to the game.
The Xenomorph is the only killer in DbD with a fully-fledged tunnel network under the map. It is the only killer whose power is directly countered by a defense system. In fact, it is the only killer in the game where survivors have to actively set up against it before it arrives. It has underground tracking through footstep detection, an alternate stance, was the first killer capable of crawling, has a map-wide traversal system, a ranged Tail Attack unlike any other power in the game, Motion Trackers and Flamethrower Turrets.
That's already more unique mechanics than most killers in the whole roster.
Does it have Facehuggers? No. Does it have Acid Blood? Technically yes, with the add-on. But a power has a limited budget. You can't realistically fit tunnels, Facehuggers, Ovomorphs, life cycle, acid blood, tail Attack, a second stance, pure stealth, wall-crawling, motion trackers and flamethrowers into a single killer without effectively designing three killers at once.
The Xenomorph does exactly what a Xenomorph would do. Everything in its kit is logical and heavily inspired by Alien: Isolation.
It moves through vents unseen, represented by the tunnels. It listens for prey, then emerges suddenly to strike with overwhelming lethality through the Tail Attack. It can be detected through Motion Trackers and repelled by fire through Flamethrowers. It's almost a carbon copy of A:I except instead of running for an instant kill, it tail strikes you. It conveys the same message though, absolute lethality.
If anything, it is one of the most faithful licensed adaptations in the game, both mechanically and thematically.
Ironically, I think the flamethrowers are one of the best examples of that. Many killer players dislike them because survivors can directly interfere with their power, but that's exactly how humans survive encounters with the Alien in the movies and in Alien: Isolation. The creature is an overwhelming threat and people are forced to prepare defenses in advance. No other killer in DbD creates that dynamic.
Where I think the criticism is actually fair is that the most unique part of the kit, the tunnels, often feels less influential than the Tail Attack. As a result, many players end up seeing Xenomorph as "the Tail Attack killer" rather than recognizing the macro-game potential and map presence that the tunnel network provides.
I think that's the real source of many complaints from both sides. Survivors focus on the Tail Attack because it is the part they interact with the most, while many killer players dislike flame turrets because survivors can directly interfere with their power, which is something almost no other killer has to deal with. Meanwhile, the most interesting and unique part of the design often gets overshadowed and underutilized.
Personally, I don't think the chapter failed at adapting Alien. Quite the opposite. Visually, thematically and mechanically, it's one of the most ambitious licensed chapters BHVR has ever made.
The Xenomorph isn't lacking unique ideas. If anything, it might be one of the most unique killers BHVR has ever designed, and that may also explain why it remains relatively niche despite its quality. Historically, many of DbD's most ambitious and unconventional killers have struggled to achieve popularity.
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@BongoBoys said:
As the title says with the new ptb a new method of super small terror radius can be achieved with Dracula if you use new Furtive Chase with Monitor and Moonstone necklace addon Dracula can have a terror radius of only 4 meters.
https://youtu.be/rV5bhMutkw8?si=oRR4N6j6a3wvxAHT
Here's a video to explain.
This has crazy potential to be hilarous
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Because of different opinions. If everyone had the same, we wouldn't be discussing on forums.
Your post doesn't take into account reality for me. It is "forum logic" or in another way of saying, a "in theory" way of thinking, you are taking everything as if it could be perfectly done without taking human errors, confusion and reality into account.
Yeah, if everything goes perfectly right, you can counter it, just like almost anything in this game "in theory". But when you take into account your average game and the chaos of it all, things get messier. I don't know how effective your squad is, and maybe you can counter stealth killers/stealth perks without any mistakes.
But for the vast majority of players, perks like that will definitly work, if this perk is bad because "you can counter it by having perfect team eternal comms", then every stealth is bad, because you can just tell your pal where the killer is going, undetectable or not. And you don't need undetectable to mind game, you need undetectable to get the first hit quickly or seize an opportunity you would not have with a TR.
Also :
- Do you have perks to see the aura of the killer, if so, how often ? Yeah, you can see the killer's aura, same with oblivious, but it isn't that common anyway, it doesn't really matter if they can see me sometimes when i am permanently under the effect of the perk, it will create much more opportunities than the aura reveal will counter anyway.
- Can you see the killer so much (aura or LOS) that you can precisely communicate his every moves to your swf (not even taking into account the killer's playing around being stealthy, let's stay simple). Is that really a good faith argument ? Again, the perk will give you constant effect.
- Does having a red stain really matter to this perk ? if they see your red stain, chances are, you are already pretty close, so your perk has done the job already.
The purpose of this perk is to be an alternative to undetectable, less strong but constant, that's the whole point, you have less than undetectable (which is restricted in plenty of ways) but you are under permanent effect. If it ways as strong as undetectable while being permanent, it would be brlken and overdhadow every stealth based powers.
And if you don't see the Pyramid Head (because i can apply "Ifs" too), then you can't communicate, and then you can't pre run him.
We can argue some more ifs, that's all we can throw at each other. But it is useless, i can create a scenario in which it is usefull and save a trial and you can create some where it is countered and useless. It's unrealistic.
In your average trial, it is going to be usefull, in the far end of either spectrum, it can be made extremely strong or useless if we both get hyperbolic enough.
People complains everyday that others are bad at the game etc. etc. and you're telling me than this is useless becaus eif we play oerfectly on comms it is neutered. Yeah, i guess ? Very unrealistic tho.
TLDR : It is nor weak nor useless, it isn't uncounterable or without flaws for sure, it's simply great.
What is bad however is this :
1 - It destroys the current effect, which i understand is a major pain point for the community.
2 - It is slow to activate but that could get changed like said previously.
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023634#Comment_4023634
The new effect could have been used for a brand new perk or to rework another perk that's widely unused instead.
Yeah i agree, it should have been a new perk
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@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4023634#Comment_4023634
TBH, it would be good only on high tier killers like Billy, Blight, Ghoul and Krasue. But again, these killer already have so much things going for them that i don't know if any of this is needed.
I don't think so but maybe ? It would need some time in the live servers to really know.
Like you said, thsese killers don't need help, i think this perk would be great on semi stealth killer that used monitor previously or just people wanting to mess around being sneaky sneaky (like me, i want to use it on my Alien to have a 12m TR, and i can lower further to 9 with monitor, i don't care about the motion trackers, it is bound to be hilarous).
Imagine not having a turret nearby while having a Xenomorph with a permanent 9m TR until it chases someone. And that's one niche exemple, you can use it on Hag, on Pig, on Pyramid head or Nemesis to reduce pre-running.
With Pyramid you can have Monitor, Furtive and the bad add on that lowers your TR per survivor tormented. -50%, -25% and - flat 8m. Not optimal, but bound to be funny.
The big problem with the perk is that it is slow, five obsession hooks is eeeeeeh. But once it's in place, it's really great. If it survives the ptb, which is almost impossible, it could, maybe, be lowered to either :
- 4 fresh hooks, kinda removing the obsession theme around the perk ...
Or
- 4 obsession hooks which means the perk would get stronger faster (-12.5% per hook instead of 10) and peak at 4 instead of 5
Really hope they keep it somewhere, either in furtive or in another perk, this could be really fun to be sneaky consistently.
Undetectable is great, but it has a short timer and it's activation is mostly obvious (kick a gen, hook the obsession, hit the obsession etc. etc.).
This would give you decent stealth everytime, and it's only 1/4 of your build. I would really like to run it on some killers. The only other perk that gives you constant stealth is Monitor. Everything else can be dispelled, has a timer or other conditions.
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I understand the frustration of losing a perk and i also know it's the wrong time to post this because everyone is on edge, it's new, it's bad, it's apocalypse time
But the new effect is not bad, it's very strong.
8m is 1 second of reaction time for a TR.
Furtive means you halve your TR after 5 obsession hook.
So you can have a Blight, running around with a 20m TR ... Which means you have like 2.5 seconds to react to his 9.2 m/s rush ... Without including human reaction time and the fact most people ignore the first layer ...
Pyramid Head, the killer known to be hyper dangerous up close, the killer known to be pre runned to hell, can walk around with a 16m TR ...
If they revert this perk, and im sure they will (sadly), i hope they bring back something like that in the future, because it is super interesting.
Otz sayed "It's like before so back to being bad" but he is wrong. Past Furtive was bad because it activated while in chase. The new effect is permanent.
You could argue 5 obsession hook is a lot and it is, it's like a "stealth devour hope" kind of deal. But it is by no means weak.
IMO, i prefer this new effect that sounds incredible over a perk that is usefull on rush killers or teleport killers because they can actually use the 18s to get somewhere. They need to bring back this effect sometime in the future, it's super interesting.
Currently, we only have Monitor to mess with the TR that way, it would be really cool to get this effect in the game somehow.
Best thing would be to had this as a new perk (either in a chapter or as a new basic) and keep Furtive so everyone is happy.
It would be a shame to get this cancelled and never brought back again.
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@chknTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4020224#Comment_4020224
The aura read portion will negatively effect Pig, Ghostface, Myers, Chucky, even Skull Merchant, and any other killers with Stealth in their kit ALOT more than higher tiers that are loud and about like Blight, Billy, Oni, Nurse who will remain strong and be less impacted by it.
And if anyone thinks they will find a way to not make it affect innate Undetectable, Vigil still affects Innate Hindered like Clown and Freddy.Will you be able to see the Alien below the map in the tunnels ? Or Springtrap "in" a door ?
If so, this is going to be very funny to see
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Pyramid head and Dracula
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3955562#Comment_3955562
seeing that avatar hurts…I miss the old one
Xeno popular ? How lucky of you. I would be glad to take all of your Xeno games, i love facing it. I wish i could trade my Freddys for your Xenos. I don't hate or love facing Freddy, i find him flat and uninteresting. Xeno is a double edged sword in flesh, i get hyped as soon as i see a control station.
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Best perk for axe grab is blood favor as it makes pallets useless for 16 seconds.
Vaulting or using a pallet reset the axe removal time which is 8s. Use the common, greasy paper plate add on to gain 15%, meaning a survivor will have to to maintain the removal action for 9.2s.
You can use bamboozle or other perks to block window/follow them faster.
The best way to do it, is to get as close as possible before throwing the axe, use the basekit undetectable to approach a survivor and axe him for up close. The closer you are, the easier the grab will be.
Even too Springtrap has a 16m range with his axe, you should get as close as possible before throwing it as it makes the follow up easier in any cases. Long range shot are best to give a love tap before leaving or try to end a chase quickly/fight a pre runner. Not ideal, use your doors to get to someone else if too much distance is between you and the survivor.
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- Survivor : I got burned and it hurt really bad
- Killer : I get burned and i flee really bad
- Second killer : I got burned but i came back anyway
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Xenomorph, Springtrap and Pyramid head are my unconditional favorites. Then after that in a second "tier", there is Dracula and Nemesis. I like Dredge, Trapper and Singularity for the original killers.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3944795#Comment_3944795
Now alien wont be too gar from nemesis his tail is easier to react now but his tunnels should work now as intended, devs said they fixe the issue for many killers spawning chests before killer objectives/powers, so this change made killers like alien, sadako much harder to play or leave sadoko almost powerless. From what I have seen with springtrap his doors spawn next every gen sometimes facing the gen which is huge for many killers like alien.
Idk if its effects killers like wesker,nemi chests and singularity emps but I think it does so its small nerf for them and maybe small buff for plague if it effects fontains too.
It affects every killers with a killer item, so Springtrap, Xenomorph, Nemesis, Wesker, Singularity, Freddy etc etc. I tested it as Springtrap and as Xenomorph and it worked perfectly.
It makes Xenomorph waaay stronger than before. Having your tunnels next to generators consistently instead of in whatever corner they would spawn before is game changing. Xeno was already my favorite killer before, but now, even more.
Xenomorph is so close to perfection (imo of course) with every changes it received lately. Tail is more fair toward survivors and less punishing for the Xenomorph and the tunnels spawn pattern is now consistent (which is insanely comfy).
I would reinforce the stealth component of the Xenomorph by adjusting the turrets motion tracker and adding lingering undetectable when exiting a tunnel just like Springtrap. After that, well, it's perfect.
Having a "Scratch mirror" add on would be the cherry on top. For the add on, replace cat carrier with a no turrets, no crawler mode, m1 only, bigger footsteps detection and perma undetectable and it's purfection.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3943662#Comment_3943662
I enjoy killers that are chase oriented and offer counter play on the survivor side to feel rewarding. Wesker, Unknown, Wraith, Blight, Nurse, Billy, Nemesis, Artist, Dredge.
Im curious about this, how is Nemesis a good design and engaging in chase while Alien is not (you mentionned Alien in your first post).
Nemesis's tentacle has a 0.35s windup while Alien has 0.3, so it's almost the same. Old Alien was 0.2s which made the tail strike unreactable and complained about, but now they are very, very similar in term of actual counterplay.
Tentacle is even stronger with more range and utility while Alien has to deal with infinite turrets that forces it to eat a "free bodyblock" and be revealed at all time.
I don't know if this is bias towards Alien or Nemesis or if i am missing something but saying Nemesis is healthy and Alien isn't in a chase scenario is a bit of a mystery to me.
I'd say, Nemesis is even more difficult to hold in chase compared to Alien, especially if you have turrets nearby.
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@dbd900bach said:
Recently got back into Onryo, obviously having little idea as to how exactly she works after being changed for the fifth time, but anyways I dominated the first match using a window chase build with Bamboozle and Unbound. The TV placements and her speed add-on were a lot of fun and the placement of her TV's on pale rose are what made it fun. However, on other maps like RPD, the placements are so atrocious that some of the TV's were outright useless.
Then we have Xenomorph who has fantastic placements for his tunnels. I'm not saying it needs to be as good given her speed boost, but please not unless. Its always a huge downer when a killers power is only as good as the map.
There is a confusion here, Xenomorph does not have "fantastic placements", it has the exact same as Onryo.
They use the same spawn logic/mechanic, so your post also apply to Xenomorph and Springtrap.
While other killers are also affected by killer props spawning logic, these 3 are the worst offenders since bad spawn nullify a large portion of their powers.
The topic has already been discussed a lot, i hope BHVR acts on it quickly, it's been an issue for years, first for Sadako, then Xenomorph and soon for Springtrap.
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@terumisan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3938058#Comment_3938058
do all 6 limbs move? i don't go against many xeno's much less the queen also there was a statement about not adding more zombies for 2v8
@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3938087#Comment_3938087
pretty sure they do move why else would they need bones for animations. Though regardless, this isnt the limitation you think it is
The second pair of arms of the Xenomorph Queen move in the lobby animation, in game, they are almost immobile (they move slightly, sometimes). They are not used at all to crawl.
Xenomorph Queen is a new model with new sounds, the size and animations do not change whatsoever. The crest is big, but the Xenomorph model itself is the normal size.
If you want to see it for yourself, there is a channel named Syralex which showcase killer animations and skins. You will see that the second pair of arms is purely cosmetic.
The videos are sometimes 8min+ with every single animations from both POV, really handy to see the devs work on a killer or a skin before you commit to a buy.
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I am totally on board with the lingering undetectable when exiting a station. 30s of undetectable would justify the motion tracker, play into the killer fantasy and allow sneaky assault on survivors when turrets aren't in the vicinity. It would not be a ground breaking buff, but a nice one, and since people are adamant about the "Xeno can't use undetectable", it would not hurt, yes ?
Now, the biggest buff Xeno could receive is making killer objects spawn consistent so we don't have two control stations watching over each others in a corner or another useless place because a chest has decided it would be the main star of this trial.
Some more stations would be cool tho, so you can really play around the tunnels more. Right now, you can't really act upon the information you gather, or even use them at all. Sometimes they are so far out of the way, you just walk because the detour is longer than just crawling there (which is depressing since the tunnel system is the main power). Just a few more stations and consistent spawn would already make this killer so much better.
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They said they wanted him to have a bit of everything so he can appeal to most. That is why they talked about having the "Dracula philosophy". They wanted to avoid making him a pure stealth killer because they wanted to give him plenty of things for variety.
He can be played like a chase heavy killer with Foxy hook and Endo CPU, he can be played stealth heavy with badge and coin, he can be played info with panel and party hat, you can switch up your playstyle a lot, which is never a bad thing.
Even basekit, he has a ranged attack that can be used as a mortar attack, he has stealth, mobility, and short ranged info for mindgame. The only thing he doesn't have is a dash but you have the celebrate add on to go 20% faster i guess ?
Also, he absolutely can stealth, with the badge, which is a green so very cheap, you have a whooping 30s undetectable everytime you use a door, slam unforeseen on top and you can be stealthy 80% of the game (i would not be against having 30s basekit since the cameras are the counterplay to his stealth but it's fine).
I use Alien Instinct, Friends till the end, Darkness Revealed and Unforeseen with strapes and badge and i am undetectable for almost the entire match. The only thing i need is info to actually jumpscare people, Alien Instinct and Friend till the end will confuse them, they won't know which one will get attacked and you can chain ambushs by having tons of info. Darkness revealed is free info on most of the time, at least two people for like a 3s interaction, then i can teleport nearby and start a party.
He has plenty of stealth, take some info which he lacks and he's a really fun stealth killer, i wish Xeno could do this.
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He's top notch, super fun to face, also fun to play.
The axe is the first time we see a fully fledged mortar power, the grab is pretty neat visually, the doors are free mobility + stealth.
The stealth, in theory needs to be countered by the cameras so it should stay high (20s is fine, 30s with green add on is the perfect amount i feel, he is a pretty good stealth killer with it). I was a bit sad when the devs said they didn't want him to be a stealth killer on live but holy moly, he is a stealth killer. He has longer stealth than Chucky, no lullaby or slowdown like Sadako/Pig, he is next to Ghostface and Wraith where you can hear him when he's near but he is undetectable pretty often.
Doors interactions are really cool, it's tense when you are a survivor, super immersive and usefull. Not a comp thing, an actual fun element, and immersive on top of that, really great for flavor.
Add ons are transformative and allows so many builds and shenanigans while not being super strong except maybe two (20% speed on axe landing is strong, you can attack someone else while the effect expires because of the 32m radius, 20% is brutal, also, at that speed, mindgames and checkspots are harder, it's pretty insane, also the generators aura when using the doors is really strong and free).
If i wanted to complain, i'd say i don't like how the grab works, i would have preferred the axe tagging the survivor (like Ghostface) so you can actually leave them, then use the doors's stealth to really jumpscare them later on). Also, the "RAAAAA" while pretty fun and cool is less cool than the FNAF 3 scream which is iconic, i miss it.
Except those 2 minors things, a fantastic killer, i love him. I think he is going to have a high kill rate because people with mess arlund with the cameras and doors (the people having fun and not optimizing every pixels i mean). Despite that, he is probably going to be B tier, i'd place him close to Xenomorph, above it.
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Theses changes were aimed toward actual Xenomorph players and from what i've seen online, it was a success.
The changes were nice QoL, the tail strike delay, you get used to after two trials and everything else is net buffs. Sad that the faster tunnel exit did not go trought, it actually justified how strong the Motion Tracker was and made the kit more coherent overall.
With that said, i don't think any changes would make this killer a popular pick and it's fine.
Xenomorph has it's dedicated playerbase just like any other killer, the design is faithful and great to the source material, and that is objective, the Xenomorph's kit is an almost 1 to 1 to the Xenomorph in Alien Isolation, you can't say with a straight face that this killer is unfaithful, you can call it "boring", "safe" or any other words, but it is objectively a coherent design for a Xenomorph in the limitations of Dead by Daylight.
There are people out there who loves this killer, no matter how few. Not every killers needs to be Wesker/Kaneki/Blight (which are three dash killers with a lot of similarities, people clearly have a type, Chucky's history is also a good indicator of this).
Demogorgon is right next to Xenomorph in pickrate on Nightlight, despite being a very popular character in the community, truth is, people want killers like Kaneki, with low skillfloor, insane mobility and immense power.
Xenomorph is complicated, not insanely strong, requires a good mastery of the game and more specifically, the character itself with the infamous flame turrets and the macro heavy oriented power.
When i hear people say "Not fun to lose your power all game", there is a major problem. People do not take the time to learn and wants immediate, no efforts, results.
Losing your power as Xenomorph does not happen nearly that often, it's pretty rare even, you straight up should never lose it against a solo turret and you can in some case outplay double turrets (if they are too close to each other, you can destroy both of them with a single tail strike for exemple).
Double turrets takes time to set up, if you encounter double turrets in every chase you take, there is a pressure problem on your part and the survivors are probably cracked. Double turrets will happen, especially against good survivors, but with the tunnels recharging your power in like 10s total with the travel time, you should be able to outpressure.
Reworking it to please people that will never be pleased either way would be a major mistake, just like with Freddy, Sadako or Skull merchant. Let the Xenomorph fans have their killer, there is 35+ other out there for everyone to enjoy.
It would be a shame to get Sadako'ed to get +0.25 pickrate at the end.
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Longer tail charge makes it almost on par with Nemesis (0.3 vs 0.35) and the reduced cooldown is felt A LOT. I had a slight adjustment time in PTB but right now im fine.
Faster tunnel exit speed was such a good idea, i hope they implement it in the future with an animation fix.
Overall, i think the direction they took is good. Tail is now reactable and much more of a 50/50 than before, the Tail strike has no crazy advantages like the Tentacle Strike or the Punishment of the Damned, it's pretty straightforward and fair now imo.
Turrets are also a little bit weaker than before, Tail Strike cooldown's reduction means you lose less grounds when piercing them and you can M1 a turret without any add on. Double turrets are still as effective as before but i think it's okay to have a nuclear option if you really want to out the Xeno out of Crawler mode. You have to invest time to set it up and the Xeno can still tunnel trought the Crawler mode's cooldown.
They backed down a bit from the concept of "overpowered" power stopped by an "overpowered" counter power. Now the counter power is still insane but less so (free MT + Bodyblock is huge, with the possibility of winning a chase instantly) and the power is essentially budget Nemesis on the chase department.
In résumé, turrets are less mandatory to survive even to they are still insanely good and Crawler mode is now a normal power, underserving of being an powered up mode.
Fine by me, if i was in charge i would double down on the tunnel system since it's the main fantasy and the cool part of the power, but except for that, i hope people will finally see how awesome this killer is.
On a side note : Harpoon gun is busted and needs to be reworked to something better. Some other add ons like Acidic blood could be buffed (30s duration).
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First main :
Alessa and Executioner
Current main :
Alessa and Xenomorph (+Executioner, Dracula, Nemesis and Springtrap when he's out)
Favorite map :
Midwitch Elementary School
Favorite perks :
Spies from the shadows
Favorite item :
Bloody map
Favorite chapter:
Alien
How many P100s ? : 2
Xenomorph and Pyramid Head
I will P100 Dracula and Nemesis eventually, my next priority is Springtrap and i already have 3M BP ready for him.
Hours :
~3000
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@Smoe said:
I fully expect the chapter to not live up to the hype and will cause people to be disappointed over the final product.
"Alien 2.0" is coming !
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Noooooo, the faster tunnel exit speed :(
Everything else is okay but damn it, the tunnels change was insanely good and actually intencivized people to play like an ambush predator with the counterplay being the Motion Tracker.
Wished they would keep this one.
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@Mooks said:
sadako xeno and chucky which are what you expect in dbd
Funnily enough, all of these had large (or at least very vocal) parts of the community against them.
While Nicolas Cage was welcomed with open arms.
people have very weird takes on what they accept and what not. Many people also just really lobe to complain no matter what.Funny thing is, they are all bottom pick and Kaneki will likely have more pickrate than all 3 of them combined. The only one that is redeemed is Chucky because he is in the dash category.
The other 2 are in the forever disliked box
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895375#Comment_3895375
Pretty well said. I do hope that they will try to make Springtrap unique at least in some way.
Im sure they will 👍
I do hope it is a stealth/confusing killer but i respect other concepts for the characters, you can do so many different powers for such a character.
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@fixblitzskin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895375#Comment_3895375
I still have hope it will because of how protective Scott is with his ip. Doubt he will make spring trap dash killer #987
Springtrap will have something unique ! Like every other killers, Wesker is the first killer to grab and throw, Alien has the tunnels (they have a lot of utility/nuances compared to someone like Demo) and turrets, Chucky has the illusory footsteps and the Chuckspots, Dracula has shapeshift etc, etc.
My guess would be that Springtrap will be a paranoia/confusion inducing stealth killer with some tracking abilities. Maybe based around Agony or the Phantoms.
Whatever it is tho, im up for it, i trust the design team and especially Scott. FNAF is in my top 5 favorite IPs alongside Alien and Silent Hill so i will main it no matter what.
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Then you are up for disapointment.
I doubt they can create something "trully unique" like you want after 8 years. Yes, im sure you all have unique and original ideas, that doesn't mean they would translate well into DBD when you take actual Game Design into consideration.
After 8 years of creation, they have found their different achetypes for the game. Dbd is unique and a pretty new type of game with no competitors. The game structure does not allow some crazy stuff to happen.They can't even release a killer without it being bugged for years and you all expect some flying/wall crawling/structure destroying killer with crazy mechanics.
Even big genre like Mobas, fighting games or other have Archetypes. Characters belongs in categories and have tweaks and tricks to make them stand out, just like in dbd. Xenomorph and Sadako are both restricted mobility killers with 7 objects. Xenomorph has anti loop alongside it and Sadako has slowdown. That's their archetype, after that they have everything else to make them stand out from other killers.
With how many people i see saying things akin to that for the FNAF chapter, we are probably heading toward another "Alien" in term of expectations/disapointment. Springtrap can have many different abilities, they will go for something that fits existing archetype like stealth/tracking or stealth/lethality, stealth/slowdown.
Every killers have something unique to them, no matter their archetype. So Springtrap will have something akin to the tunnels, torment, condemn or the illusory footsteps. I doubt it will be enough since people are going to find any similarities for a failed design and a revamp like every chapters.
Also, the least popular killers are all the most originals/ambitious in term of design :
Pinhead, Knight, Twins, Xenomorph, Sadako, Singularity, Dredge, Hag and even Skull merchant. All hated because they have ambitious designs.
The most popular killers are all very simple killers in design, most of them being movement/dash killers like Billy which is just dash or Wesker which is dash + simple infection.
Clearly, originality is not people main focus. People want fun killers, which, while being subjective, is most of the time low skill floor, high skill ceiling, strong, movement based killers.
BHVR is not encouraged to try new things when people hate every one of their most ambitious design or anything they change in general.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892738#Comment_3892738
Everything related to the flamethrower. They also still didn't revert the tail attack cooldown to pre-nerf levels after fixing the bug on PTB.
The tail is very underwhelming after the nerfs from PTB before xeno was actually released, basically the PTB had a bug where the power had no cooldown penalty, where you didn't slow down at all for missing. They fixed that bug, then like doubled the penalty at the same time, when really all they needed to do was fix the bug. As it stands currently, the penalty for missing a tail attack is around 50% more than what most other killer's penalties are after missing an attack (like, nemesis, demo, pyramid head, dracula, etc)
For the flamethrower stuff, look at what they do.
- It takes 100 "units" of fire currently to be knocked out of your power, now it will take 175, a little less than double.
- Currently after 1 second of not being burning by fire, you lose 25 "units" of heat per second, so generally once you destroy the turret, you are good unless they stack multiple turrets or you quickly are in another turret range. They are changing this to FIFTEEN (15) seconds before it starts to decay.
- They also make it so you are only losing TWO (2) "units" of heat every second from TWENTY FIVE (25)
Massive massive nerfs. Sure, 1 turret probably won't knock you out of your power, but as soon as the survivor goes to a second turret, you probably are gonna get knocked out of your power now, and you are effectively a powerless killer. Keep in mind that CURRENTLY if you aren't running the heat reduction or range reduction addon for turrets (usually you want both), that if you get hit by a turret you WILL get knocked out of it before you can physically hit the turret. And even with those addons you have to be very quick. I believe they generate around 25 charges per second currently and the notes make no mention of changing that.
Turret inflict 66 charges/s. Meaning you currently lose Crawler in 1.5s. With the changes you will lose Crawler mode in 2.65s but your heat will basically never ever full recover. In short you have 1 health bar and after that, you need to get into the tunnels. You probably can tank up to three turrets with 2.65s of "HP". But you you will lose your power no matter how good you play.
The tail attack nerf means you will miss a lot more of quick reaction shots in shack for exemple since your delay is almost doubled. Survivors having more time to dodge a power supposed to be very strong in exchange for turrets will probably feel really bad too. This will need an adaption time but overall the tail is weaker, the turrets are way stronger, you are guaranted to lose your power despite your skill level with the character. Also the reduced cooldown is sad, since it's only for misses, a guy hitting most of it's tail strikes will have no buff, the delay is the same as nemesis but with 0.75s of cooldown more if you hit your strike. I expected the tail cooldown to be lowered, not only the misses, this isn't that big of a deal then.
The only net positive thing is the tunnel exit time which is really good. Everything else is either very minor or nerfs.
I see what they are going for, but for now, this seems like a patch solely made to make survivors less frustrated facing it, which is noble but pointless, Xenomorph had a terrible first impression and it's bad reputation will probably never wash off. People will want to play this character even less since you will feel powerless against turrets.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892756#Comment_3892756
Except that the Tail is better than Tentacle.
Nemesis does take two hits to damage, plus he gives a speedboost on the first non-damaging hit. Xeno does damage instantly, retains quite a bit of movement speed and the Tail can be dragged over objects.
I disagree completly, tail strike is worse than tentacle strike, especially after the next patch.
Tentacle strike gives 8 "free hits" with a massive hindered effect that almost makes the follow up hit instant, you have to walk like 3s to catch up and hit them again.
Vaccines are limited to 4, turrets are infinite, you have to hit a "bodyblock" and hit them no matter what, they kill your stealth and can outright remove your power for a whopping 35s if you decide to keep chasing.
Tentacle has a CD of 2.25s, Tail has 3s, 2.5 after the buff, still worse.
Tentacle can break pallet, not the tail
Tentacle has a 6.5m range, tail is 4.8m, even Nemesis in tier 1 has better range !
Tentacle strike goes after a 0.35s charge, tail is 0.35 after the nerf, so the same, they now have the exact same "reaction time".
You can hit a wall with tentacle strike then drag the hitbox in someone. The tail stops having an hitbox as soon as it hits a collision. You can only drag in the air. This means Xenomorph cannot prefire like a Nemesis, after the nerf to the delay, it will play exactly like a tentacle strike but worse in every way. And you still have the turrets …
How can the tail strike possibly be better than the tentacle ? Are the 8 hits with 20% hindered that important ? Especially compared to flame turrets that are insanely strong in competent hands (said by the devs themselves and every Xeno actual players ever).
Nemesis gets slowed down a tiny bit in early, it has been buffed, you get to tier 3 insanely fast and the free hits are a minor delay, not some massive problems.
Xeno has to deal with slowdown for eternity, each turret is time wasted and free distance, or worse, you have to give up the chase entirely.
Xenomorph after the bug patch was stronger than Nemesis, then Nemesis got buffed and was better but the two were very close, each having their ups and down. The thing that Xeno had over Nemesis was the delay being 0.2, now after this patch, it has nothing, no-thing over tentacle strike. Turrets being way stronger than infection/vaccines.
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The changes are interesting to say the least.
Now the tail attack has the same prep time as the Nemesis but you can't cancel it whatsoever making it weaker overall. The sound cue is nice.
The turrets mini rework means individual turrets wll have a greater impact toward breaking crawler and double turrets will be as strong as ever. You are essentially guaranted to lose crawler mode if a survivor just runs from turret to turret.
So now, Xenomorph must drop chase more frequently and cannot go on long chase when multiple turrets are deployed. With a weaker tail attack, it seems we are leaning more toward ambush attacks over long chase. The cooldown change is nice but it's still worse than Nemesis. Can't cancel, can't drag into a wall, has a smaller reach, can't break pallets, has an equivalent fire time. It is worse than Nemesis, and having the infection (with hindered) and vaccines is still less punishing than the turrets. Xenomorph chase is worse than Nemesis overall.
However,
The buff to tunnel exiting is massive as it means the ambush will be waaay stronger than before. 1.5 instead of 2.25 is insanity. You are heavily encouraged to attack vulnerable targets with tunnels and leave chase frequently. I kinda like the way they want players to use tunnels information, speed and stealth more often leaning into the ambush predator style more.
You will lose crawler mode eventually but tunnels are better, you are even more of a 1v4 killer now, almost an hit and run centered around pressuring everyone with tunnels and sealing the deal very quickly in chase before turrets eventually burn you.
Tho tunnels RNG is still a problem, more tunnels alongside those changes would be THE good move. As simple as that, having more control stations would make the Xenomorph way better and smoother to play as tunnels would be more accessible and allow the Xenomorph to act uppn the information it gathered below, it's just a net positive in balance, theme and overall enjoyment for the player. Also, entering the tunnels should make you recover from the flames allowing you to not be insta burnable after exiting tunnels, because the heat dissipation is way too high without being able to do anything against it. This would mean you can choose to reset the heat by using the tunnels.
Interesting changes overall, im excited to see how it will play out. Can't wait to see the new add ons.
Even if it ends up badly, im happy the devs are looking at Xeno.
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@Massquwatt said:
I think Xeno is fine the most part, I play her quite a lot and while good coordinated survivor really suck to go against you don't go against them too often. What usually happens is that survivors either put turrets right next to the tunnels, don't move the turrets after a gen is completed or just plain don't bother with them at all. That being said, she could use three QoL changeS:
- Tail attacks against turrets AREN'T counted as missed attacks.
- Basic attacks against turrets ARE counted as missed swings.
- An option to bring back the PTB chase music.
PTB Terror radius was Godly, the chase music had issues, it caused headache to some people, but that could have been changed. The new music is cool and is Aliens themed, but my god the PTB TR was so insanely cool, t's not even comparable. I don't like the new TR, the chase part is okay i guess.
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@Shroompy said:
Xeno's gameplay just isnt that interesting when comparing it to other killers, and Crawler mode just feels like something thats unfinished. The original name for it "Runner Mode" (was in the PTB) also suggests this.
The tunnels and the flame turrets are pretty cool, but Xeno itself needs something more. Youre barely in your normal form, and you should have some sort of ability while in it, and you can change to Crawler mode at will while also giving it some other kind of ability (maybe even keep the tail whip, but still give something to the normal one) just so the gameplay feels a bit more interesting and not so 1 dimensional
The Runner mode name is no leftovers or sign that there was something more in the oven, it is a winky wink at Alien 3's Xenomorph, the Runner Alien. The Runner Alien is almost always moving on all 4 due to it's host being an animal instead of a human.
Plus i guess they felt funny since going into "Runner mode" give the BP prompt or whatever it is called "On the run".
In the PTB, people misundertstood this and the devs changed it to Crawler mode for clarity.
I disagree on Xeno's design not being interesting but that's purely subjective so we are not going to discuss this further.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892127#Comment_3892127
Turrets being finite is debatable i agree, i don't think it would hurt tho, since akin to Wesker, it would be very rare to run out. But ut would make it's stealth potentially potent since in theory you could run out and have a very stealthy killer. I think having the possibility to run out of turrets could make the Alien's gameplay more interesting with having some ressources management. Each turret break would feel impactful and not just "free stealth killer and bodyblock". It would add another interesting layer to the Alien i feel.
The comparison with Wesker does not really work that well. With Wesker, the Survivor somewhat has control over the infection. Or, to be more precise, it is something that Wesker himself and the Survivors can influence. If I am good enough at avoiding his Dashes and force him to M1 me, I dont even need a Spray. And if I am not good at Wesker, I will not force the Survivors to use those Sprays.
However, with Xenomorph it is different. First of all, most Xenomorphs run the Add On which makes it harder to break them out of their power, you need 2 Turrets most of the time to break them out. And second, even if you manage to do so, Xenomorph can just crawl into a tunnel, run there for just a few seconds and is back in Crawler-Mode - regardless how good or bad any of the players are, there is 0 control needed from either side.
You're right they are not the same, turrets could be finite in the same way that wesker are, meaning, there is so much of them, running out is almost impossible. That's all, i implied no more in depth comparison between the two of them. I already explained my reasoning and this change cannot be taken out of a package, because it loses sense if you take things individually. It isn't a necessary change, it's an idea to try to make things more interesting and less painful to deal with.
Now if your point is to say "Wesker has to do X to have finite ressources, Alien is different so it can't possibly have limited turrets because it does not work like Wesker", then i understand, but i disagree, them being different does not warrant such restrictions, we should not limit options just because some other killer is like this or that.
I used Wesker to demonstrate how this would work, in this case, having so much ressources that it is very rare to run out, despite the fact it is indeed possible to run out, creating strategies and possibilities in the trial. I love to spread infection as Wesker, if vaccines were infinite, it would probably not impact 95% of my games but it would make Wesker way less fun for me, i am trying to replicate something like that with Alien, this feeling of "With each turrets that i break, i bring them closer to having nothing and be vulnerable" which makes breaking turrets almost nice instead of brutally painful, because you know you are working toward something great and not just dealing with somethibg annoying because the game said you had to do so.
The fact that i earned my infection with Virulent Bound is not important to me since it is very easy to land in the first place, or we could say i earned my power by breaking every turrets on my path then ? It is the base idea of the power, very strong but has to be "earned", except it's the survivors that are testing you, they can ensure you lose it and you have a CD of 35s (which is too low for me) or a return to the tunnels. Say whatever you want about recharging in 5 seconds in the tunnel but having to drop chase, find a tunnel (distance can vary a lot), enter it, wiggle wiggle wiggle, find a surv (maybe the same, if they allow you to see footprints) and then emerge and start the chase with whatever distance they have on you. If that's not enough punishment, i don't know what you could possibly want. Xenomorph has to earn it's power, but it is different than Wesker.
Further comparison is pointless, they are indeed different but i don't think it's a valid reason against potential changes.
However,
A solid reason to not change that in my opinion would be dead zone, let's say there is 21 turrets total, 3 per stations. If i managed to empty two stations close to each other, i would essentially create a turrets dead zone which could either be exciting to play or very painfull, this would have to be tested. Survivors would have to mess up and i would have to pressure one point of the map for this to happen. This, in my eyes, could be a problem that we could discuss.
With that said, you have a great point with the add ons. Lambert Star map and Emergency helmet are problematic because they influence way too much the Xenomorph's balance. I think they should be removed and the Xenomorph resistance to turret should be consistent. Survivors should not have to guess if their turrets are going to be efficient, midly efficient or not very efficient just because you equiped a green and yellow add on.
Now, whenever these add ons should be made base kit or not is another debate, i think not, i am of the opinion that Tail Strike should be improved, making turret breaking less painful along the way. These add ons by design will create a reliance that is bad for the Alien's health on the long run.
There is so much that could be done for this killer withtout changing the fundamental kit that is excellent on paper. I have a certain idea written with add ons changes and a complete package, but that's what i said it is, a vision, an idea.
If we narrow it down to the essential, i think Xeno should get less punishment for the tail and more tunnels entry/exit point. This alone would make it way better to play, or so i think.
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Since we're on an Alien discussion, maybe we should also bring the add on into the discussion.
Most are uninteresting (skin, wand etc), two of them are problematic, looking at you Star map and Emergency helmet. And some are cool and usefull like Semiotic Keyboard and Self-Destruct Bolt.
Any ideas to rework some of them ?
Also, why is the cattle prod an iri and the litteral Ovomorph a brown ?
It's like with Pyramid head, the Goblet is an iri but not the tape or the Misty Days painting ? That's bizarre.
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@radiantHero23 said:
They should make the tail hitbox align with the actual animation for the tail to make the killer less frustrating and I think the amount of players would increase.
Right now, playing Xeno is often just frustrating and not really a fun experience.I agree with you, but i think there is more to it.
The fact that the tail attack is missed as soon as the hitbox collides with a structure plus the unintuitive hitbox on top of having the biggest punishment out of all the ranged attacks for the shortest one is a combination that makes Xeno feels really bad for trying fun shots or just simply missing. If it was only the weird hitbox, i think it would be bad, but okay~ish, but the combination of everything is brutal, especially the drag thing.
Being able to drag into walls makes Nemesis really smooth and fun, if the Tentacle collision stopped upon hitting something other than a survivors it would be an horrible killer to play. I understand that Xeno is different and that it working like that is intended and manageable, but it does make it frustrating to play sometimes. Numerous times when streamers miss a tail strike, it's because they smashed the ground, the window or a wall, a twig, something behing the survivors. It's incredibly frustrating to see your tail go trought their model but see the animation where it wags it's tail, implying that the hitbox collided with a structure and you missed. There is two animations for missing, the pointy end wagging meaning you hit something and the hitbox cancelled and the tail smoothly going back meaning you just whiffed.
Let's compare to Nemesis, since the two are always brought together:
Nemesis can break pallets, have a 6.5m range, a 2.25s cooldown, no turrets, shoots directly into a wall and drag itself into someone.
Yeah, no wonder why the Tentacle strike has a better feeling that the Tail strike. All that for 8 "free" hits that hinders so much they are almost a guaranted follow up hits and a mutation rate that slows you down a bit. With Marvin's blood and Licker's tongue, it's almost a non factor tho.
Vaccines are a finite ressources that gives informations and infection hits hinders a lot, having this in exchange of Tentacle Strike numerous ups feels great and fair.
Now you have Xeno with infinite turrets that kills both it's stealth and act as at best a free bodyblock and at worst a power denial for up to 35s. Hitting a turret is a net negative for you, and it's not a "they used a spray, they only have x left, i must infect them with Uroboros again, and i will have less CD for doing so", nope, whack a turret, don't worry they have another infinite numbers of them, it's fine it only demolish your momentum and kills stealth.
Now to be fair, turrets takes time to set up, so you kinda get something, but the turrets are so powerfull, having 1/4 survivors set up some turrets is much more worth for them than you.
The only real advantage of the Tail strike is the wind up of 0.2, Nemesis has 0.35 which is slighlty worse but Nemesis can fake while losing no distance. Xeno must commit to every tail strike. The thing is, Xeno and Nemesis are delayed by distance and mindgames, so the wind up advantage is not that insane compared to everything Nemesis has. I would gladly take 0.15s more in wind up for more range, breaking pallets and having way less cooldowns. Turrers are also worse than 4 vaccines and a 20% hindered "free hits".
And that is only the Tail strike issues, we are not even talking about Tunnels RNG which is far more aggravating in my opinion.
Xenomorph's kit is amazing in concept, but it needs some tuning to really shine, if drastic changes are unacceptable for people, then at least some QoL to make it smoother and less punishing.
Because the pickrate was mentionned, but having one of the worst pickrate and killrate is something that should be questionnable considering this killer is mainly played by dedicated player that should know what they are doing with the character.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892108#Comment_3892108
I don't think making turrets a finite resource would be a good idea. Primarily since they're constantly being used as they're more or less required as her tail is powerful thanks to its very fast windup.
Crawler mode is already extremely slow. It's 1c/s and needs 35 charges. As anyone that played Release Ghost Face can tell you, a 30 second cooldown is brutal. Yes, she can go in tunnels, but she will also lose 1/4 of the gauge every time she hooks someone (roughly 9 seconds after hooking to get her power back). Slower means the act of hooking is more punishing.
Her cooldowns are something I'm iffy on. I do think 3 seconds is too long. I mean, look at PH and Neme with 2.25 sec cooldowns or Demo with 2.43-2.7 (depending on add-ons). But again, also very little windup to balance it.
Regarding Stealth, I wouldn't do that. Instead, I'd just make it so Turrets' motion trackers don't work unless Xeno is in the tunnels. Inside them is fine; they're the only means of tracking. Outside though? I don't think there's much reason. It makes her reduced TR otherwise entirely pointless.
Turrets being finite is debatable i agree, i don't think it would hurt tho, since akin to Wesker, it would be very rare to run out. But ut would make it's stealth potentially potent since in theory you could run out and have a very stealthy killer. I think having the possibility to run out of turrets could make the Alien's gameplay more interesting with having some ressources management. Each turret break would feel impactful and not just "free stealth killer and bodyblock". It would add another interesting layer to the Alien i feel.
I do know about the 1/4 power lose after carry and it is a very good point ! I did not go into details with my ideas but i have an in depth "patch note". I took that into consideration when i write it and the power gauge would not be depleted to 75% anymore when picking up, it would still take 8 seconds to gain crawler back as i adjusted the percentage with the new time to recharge crawler mode that is way longer. It would further incentivise the Xenomorph to retreat after a burn and recharge all lf it's advantages while keeping the fanatsy for survivors of repelling the beast with fire. The Xenomorph retreating in tunnels after getting burned is important imo, and i don't really like being able to just ignore the flames and chase for only 35s to get back such a strong power. The retreat in tunnel is important both in balance and in theme, with turrets being finite, this would also make them more impactfull albeit they already are really strong. This is really debatable of course, but it's my vision for the character i play the most.
Tail attack is not the strongest attack in the game whatsoever and plenty of other killers have lesser cooldowns for greater attacks. I don't think the Xenomorph should be punished that much for having the shortest ranged attack and in addition to turrets counterplay. It's strong i agree, but it's not THAT strong. Slightly diminishing the punishment should not break the balance while making it smoother to use and incentivise trying and not using the m1 and being a walking bait. This could get tested in a PTB and adjusted back to the original cooldown if it is indeed too strong.
My problem with your idea for the Motion Tracker is about logic and gameplay incentivise, why would the MT only work when underground, it would be bizarre. Having undetectable upon exiting tunnels would not be harmfull and actually play into the stealth fanatsy of the killer, turrets would still counter it but allow the Xenomorph to thrive when turrets are not placed or use stealth to come from bizarre angle. I disagree with your idea because playing around the lower TR of crawler mode with turrets not beeping would not intencivise people to use the tunnels. The lower TR is nice to not get pre run like hell, but you should not just walk around on paper. Playing into the "Ambush"/stealth of tunnels is imo, a better idea as it further incentivise people to play around them while making the Xenomorph stealthier overall. Turrets being finite also gives some logic to this particular change. As at some point, if they do run out, then it becomes a true stealth killer. It create some dread and desperation for survivors, even if you rarely run out, the potential is scary enough in the same vein as Wesker.
The most important thing for me is the numbers of tunnels available, this would be the biggest change.
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It's also one of the lowest killrate, does that mean Xenomorph could be buffed or are we still adament to say it's a very strong killer that needs nothing ?
Because having a low killrate despite being the 4th least played killer in the game should be enough to recognise there is a problem beyong "I don't feel like im playing a Xenomorph and that's why people are not playing it".
I don't know what you all expected but nothing could have satisfied it. Xenomorph lurking in vents, locating you, emerging and then being very lethal, only stopped by motion tracker/flamethrower screams Alien to ANYONE with even supbar knowledges of the IP. It is perfectly on brand with the IP and that is factual. You don't feel like a Xenomorph because you are not a 7 m/s one shotting monstrosity but that's on you for not recognizing the limits of dbd. The game isn't builded around Alien mechanics such as Claustrophobia slow paced horror and ahem, let's say giger related subjects. It's a guest and it is limited righfully so. Everyone can't have the luxury as being as simple as "looks at you" or "go very fast". Obviously the Alien in dbd can't have access to everything it is capable of.
It's almost a carbon copy of the Alien Isolation formula and funnily enough, in this game, it isn't stealthy at all, you can hear it going around in vents and when below with you, it stomps and roar so loud, you are never getting surprised by it. The Motion Tracker in A:I is also precise so it's stealth is a non factor. It's scary because it is a walking "You Died", that's what they aimed for in it's dbd kit and it's deemed "unfun". I remember everyone saying "Make Alien OP in chase but let survivors have flamethrowers", yeah, that's exaclty what they have done, and it's not even that OP in chase either, a limping guy with a chainsaw is way better at moving around and downing people with no drawbacks whatsoever in his power.
The Alien could use some changes:
In very short and without going in depth :
- Turrets deployment should be smoother for survivors, less time to pickup, less hindered to carry, less time to deploy, smaller radius to better place them.
- Flame turrets should be a finite ressources ala Wesker, survivors will have plenty enough to not run out in most of their matches but this would be a possibility.
- More control stations to better use tunnels, this is the biggest change and what separate the Alien in dbd from the one in Isolation. In Isolation, there is a vent every 5 meters and that makes the Alien very prone to drop on you at anytime. This would be beyond huge to have more tunnels as it is the true power of the Alien and what makes it unique. Right now it's the coolest thing ever but very lackluster as you don't have enough to make them more usefull that going from point A to B in most cases. Sometimes it's even good to go from point A to B as they are badly placed. That's unfair since in those trials, you lose more thzn half of your power just because of RNG...
- A hefty lingering undetectable after exiting the tunnels to play in the stealth fantasy of the Xenomorph, turrets are so god tier against stealth, it should not be an issue right ? Giving permanent stealth in crawler mode would be counter intuitive but having a 30s timer would incentivise the Alien to frequently use the tunnels to recharge it's stealth among other things, so a win-win design wise.
- Crawler mode should recharge even slower outside of tunnel.
- Tail strike should be 2.7 s with 1.6 m/s. Acceleration rate could be tweaked.
These changes would instantly make the Xenomorph better to play and face while keeping the Alien Isolation rythm and fantasy.
Being easier to play/less punishing and stronger overall would heal it's pickrate a lot more than going the Sadako/Freddy route for people that will never be satisfied by anything anyway. It will probably always be a niche killer alongside Singularity/Dredge and even the almighty Demogorgon that despite being loved is bottom pickrate since forever, such is the fate of being a monster killer apparently.
Alien is only played by it's mains and some occasional players and it's fine. Im not against buffs tho as they would make it even more awesome that it already is.