Heliosse
Heliosse
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
Outside of the few big names left, I don't think anything would have as much pull as FNAF at this point. Other mascot horror like Bendy, Poppy Playtime or Spooky just don't have enough oomph. Slender is more Millennials then Z IMO so I don't think it'd have that much pull at this point. That said it'd be my first choice for an indie license.
No joke, the guy who mentioned skibidi toilet is right. That would pull in people since it's very popular, will probably stay popular for a while and is so stupid as a DBD concept that it would draw in people that had no interest. It'd also be very easy to make videos off of so you'd see an explosion from content creators.
Bendy with it's Ink Demon design from the "Bendy and the Dark Revival" could be a very interesting and unique killer. Something with the Ink spreading in the Terror Radius could be neat and the design of the Ink Demon itself is amazing.
Bendy is not as influencial as Fnaf (Tbf, nothing in horror is, Fnaf must be the most popular horror IP right now) but Bendy is also one of the best IP of the mascot horror. I'd argue it's the N°2 after Fnaf but maybe it's Poppy Playtime.
The games are not perfect at all, but they are interesting from an art/lore point. Pastra, an horror specialized youtuber has a lot of contents discussing the design of the Bendy games, it's interesting.
Now in term of actual pull, i think it's 90/10 on the gameplay, Alien failed even tho it was a big name and it's adaptation was very faithful to the IP. The problem is, the gameplay is boring for most, between the lack of dashes and the turrets, people have just dropped it. Chucky succeded because it's a simple to understand, easy to play dash based killer, well, it was at least. I would agree with TheFakeBanette that is a Chucky main with a lot of cool podcasts, Chucky is still very much playable and strong right now, but his skill floor is much higher than before.
Banette used the comparison with Blight, saying something akin to "Imagine if Blight was nerfed to B tier, he would still be strong, but disgustingly weak compared to before".
If Chucky launched like he is right now, we wouldn't have as much Chucky players compared to what happened, because it isn't the IP that created the Chucky mains, it's the gameplay (well for the vast majority, i know there is hardcore Chucky fans that will play him no matter what).
That is always the risk with big names, anticipation, expectations, we know the Fnaf chapter is never going to be like everyone wants, between the Fnaf haters, the slowdown concepts with the springlock suits, the stealth/phantom concepts, the trap concepts, the multi killers concepts, the "i don't want springtrap to be the killer" concept, the choice of the map, the skins etc, it's likely this chapter will end up with the Alien effect and some hardocre fans staying around.
The IP names are only usefull for the initial hype after that, it's up to gameplay. Most of the dbd community does not even know the IP before they are introduced or by name only, so having an IP like Bendy would be a gameplay check and a nice surprise for those that knows it.
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@Pulsar said:
Considering that I am in the same age range, albeit slightly younger, I would say Outlast or Amnesia.
Also Bioshock ! I bet it would drag some people.
Amnesia would be insane to have in dbd, Frictional is such a good dev team !
Penumbra was insane, so was Soma and Amnesia is iconic.
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Absolutly, i have P100'ed my Alien and Pyramid Head, but i want Nemesis and Dracula too to complete my 4 mains.
That said, i just don't want to play survivor. I played a lot of survivor last year and had a miserable experience, now i play either killer or another game. They can put 300 or 400% BP bonus, im not Blight streaking anytime soon.
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More Xenomorph ! MORE !
I love to burn them to crisp only to watch them retreat with their tail between their legs.
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@Aceinbush said:
I can't remember last time I saw Xeno/Alien. And when I checked community stats he is like bottom top 10 least played, which is intersting. His power is also good in terms of raw power… and most survivors don't even know how to place turrets.
Hello, long post coming, responding primarly to you and to the things that never cease to pop when Alien is involved in the forums.
- Hard to use despite popular belief, people do not know how to play around turrets or with the tunnel system, they use it at the start to lethal pursuer their way into a chase then almost never again. The only thing they do is tail strike...
- Where is the stealth ? In the tunnels. Where is the speed ? Also in the tunnels. You have every tools at your disposal to plan and act with the sheer mobility/information/ambush capacity of the tunnels. Yes, RNG can brutalize you, just like Sadako and Dredge, it is unfortunate but nothing new. Devs should absolutly adress this.
- First impression trauma, i think we all remember the bugged release state and the follow up bugs with the tail strike. It started OP then slidded to unusable for 2 weeks then to normal. A good way to make everyone drop a killer despite being VERY well received in ptb. Release Alien was a complete and global disaster that completly killed the killer's reputation for probably ever, it's not Skull merchant tier, but it's something in the same vein.
- "Boring kit" while being competly subjective is funny considering that every very original killer powers are unpopular with Singularity, Dredge, Sadako, Pyramid head, Cenobite, Plague, Doctor, Pig all being supbar in term of pickrate. The "Fun" kit can be resumed to "dash killers" and Huntress. Simple to use, effective and straightforward killers with a macro that plays itself (Billy, Blight). Everytime i see a Xeno playing, they play like what i called "The scorpion", not surprised it isn't engaging when you don't even play the macro ambush snowball style it is supposed to have. This style is hard and also very fun to play, the true Alien experience but you really have to get your head in the game and collect informations on gens and survivors whereabout using your tunnels. Underusing the tunnels to play like a Nemesis without zombies plus turrets is pointless, which is a big factor in Alien's pickrate. Alien is compex in it's own right akin to Singularity. Singularity is very strong, interesting and one of the most original power in the game. Where does it sit ? In the graveyard.
- Waste of a license is also funny considering the devs did the IP justice if you think in a design way. You can't have Ovomorphs without them being washed up, would be fun to run with a facehuggers on the head or have a coma of 10s or even remove the facehuggers/chestburster. Glad they kept away to allow the entire power budget to the Alien itself. We would have a Nemesis situation with people crying "Why is Alien a m1 killer with no sprint, wallclimb, tail attack or acid ?", because it has the ovomorphs, can't have everything in a kit. I would prefer Nemesis to have something else in his own hands instead of two zombies that you can't control. People not knowing the Alien franchise or having unreasonable expectations are not on the devs.
- Wall climbing is a non factor in this game, it would be broken in every sense of the word and is just a bad idea, devs tried it and scrapped it quickly. You have to consider that you are playing in dbd.
- The killer does not spit acid in the original version, this idea came from spin off and video games needs for enemy diversity.….. Acidic blood is also an add on that does the job well enough, it would be stupid for the Alien to injure itself just to be.... a ranged killer like it already is but with acid i guess, what's the design idea behing that except "It has acid". Acidic blood works as a defense mechanism, nothing in dbd can hurt an Alien, so apart from being a fun wink wink add on, it's a non factor.
The Alien in dbd suffers from being in dbd, no claustrophobia to make it's stealth shine, it can't be too lethal which is why it's scary in games like Isolation plus several other limitations like the ovomorphs/wall climb. Games are also too fast to properly install the horror of Alien.
But,
The design philosophy is almost a carbon copy of Alien: Isolation which is the most praised Alien game ever.
Alien roams in vents very fast (in dbd it is stealthy on top of it which it isn't in Isolation + you can track it very accurately with MT), it detects you with sounds (footsteps detection + breathing sound/generators sound), it emerges (control station) and then it chase you (tail is extremely lethal, just like a chase in Isolation is almost guarranted death. People wanted the Alien to be very lethal but survivors have flamethrowers, devs did it and people complains). The only way to defend yourself against such a monster is with a flamethrower and a motion tracker (surprise, it's there too). Seems like the kit is almost identical, Isolation must be very unfaithful to Alien then, how can it can't spit acid, climbs on wall, place eggs that hatchs washed up Facehuggers ???
Ovomorphs and Facehuggers are in Isolation for a very short time and are a gimmick instakill (not a good idea for dbd) and there is no wallcrawling AT ALL.
Now, what is actually wrong in Alien design imo as an Alien fan that has played the Xenomorph almost exclusivly since it's release and had it leveled up to P100 ?
- Turrets should be limited like Wesker to give a sense of urgency and dread. Your defenses are limited, better hurry, it would play into the horror theme and mirror the limited fuel of Isolation and the ammo decreasing in Aliens/limited options of Alien.
- There isn't enough stations to utilise tunnels well, more stations would mean more engaging gameplay for the Alien by really being a more advanced ambush predator, you would see it emerge when it's too late just like in Isolation and not in a predictable 12m away from a generator out of the one lost control station in a corner of the map.
- It's a good design choice to lose crawler mode upon getting burned, since it mimicks the Alien pattern with vents. Alien should get a short to medium amount of stealth when exiting a station to incentivize it to frequently use them and not play like a scorpion (so with 30% of it's kit). Would also solve the stealth outside of tunnels problem. You can't just have stealth for free, but encouraging stealth out of tunnels would be good in every ways.
- It could use a general sound reduction while in crawler mode to better utilise steath.
- Motion tracker should be a real motion tracker, if MT could track survivors and the Alien, this would still "counter stealth" while allowing it to exist via sheer confusion which would be a good Alien thing and also on par with Isolation once again. If everyone just stand still, the MT should stop, allowing Alien to ambush still. Maybe it's for simplicity or technical problems, idk, but this one could be very big.
TLDR; Alien is very accurate to it's source material, it just can't have anything in it's kit and it also suffers from being in a game like DBD.
I don't know what is up with the community (especially the one that says they are Alien fans), but you can't say in good faith that it's kit isn't representative of the IP, it is totally limited by the game's core, but what it bringed to the table is faithfull. Having unimaginable expectations for Alien while having Wesker not even getting an Uroboros that acts like the Uroboros is funny in so many ways. Almost every IP killers in the game are heavily limited and with half their "true" kit, see Pinhead, Wesker, Nemesis, Pyramid head (which is pure invention on the devs part) and so on.
I can understand finding the kit boring, but saying it's boring because it isn't faithful or matches your unimaginable expectations of having everyhting in it's kit is not on the devs, it's on you. Imagine if Dracula, Wesker, Nemesis, Sadako or Vecna had everything, would also be funny.
The subject of stealth is interesting because while i would love for BHVR to implement way more stealth aspect into the Alien's kit, the MT is perfectly adapted to the IP, it's almost as iconic as the Alien itself. Everyone would complain if it wasn't here. The most important thing to do is to give bigger advantages to the tunnels, more of them for the mobility and lethality, lingering stealth out of it to get a quick ambush and back in, general MT to create some confusion/stealth and boom, absolute perfection !
The community is unfair to the Alien chapter and im starting to think people saying that the Alien was a bad idea for dbd and should never come to the game were right. With how people are, there is no universe where this chapter would have worked.
With that said, im also gratefull that BHVR did the chapter since im an Alien fan and i have P100 the Xenomorph with absolute pleasure, best killer ever and best IP ever, i'll die in this vent.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880696#Comment_3880696
Hmmm... Can't argue with any that 😅
Your Aliens analogy especially is on point... I've been joking for years "there are only 2 Alien movies, 2 Terminator movies, 1 Predator film and 1 Jurassic Park... shocking they never made a sequels to these franchises"... I tend to selectively ignore bad sequels xD
I suppose RE is in a similar camp to Evil Dead really, and I suppose FNAF as well when I think about it... If you look at the first entries in each, they are quite serious in tone and horror, any goofy moments are unintentional through limitations, and while they are all limited in some way shape or form, they take a simple premise and do a hell of a lot with it.
In all 3 cases as the series goes on they get more outlandish and ridiculous, and yet surprisingly the later entires are all the more popular entries.
E.g. I was shocked to find out that Army of Darkness is rated so much higher than either Evil Dead... to me it was a joke film, one where you literally take nothing seriously, and if you're wanting a horror film, you're in the wrong movie. I can't understand those who call it "the best of the Evil Dead series", because in terms of the horror goal of Evil Dead... it fails miserably (and even Evil Dead 2 walks a line of being too goofy, but at least it does actually maintain the horror element quite well).
I guess RE is the same. I very much like the serious tone and stakes of the original Resident Evil Remake... yes the puzzles take a bit of suspension of disbelief, but they are fun to solve and the tone isn't irreparably damaged.... RE3 asks a little too much of my suspension of disbelief, and if I'm focusing on the elements I personally liked from RE1... RE3 does a lot of things that hurt my investment…
But I guess that's the entire point, and people like myself aren't the target audience 😅😅😅
That's for sure, we are not the target audience, everytime i say that i heavily dislike AvP and how they massacred the Xenomorph legacy to be a prey to the Predator, i feel like an actual Alien in the room.
Alien is not some Godzilla to be paired with Kong, we could say "absolute cinema" but now, Alien is more about AvP than it's own thing, i feel like people are more fans of AvP than the actual Alien IP that just continues to get massacred again and again after every title. I played board games, video games, read the books and even the comics and i have never found the vibe of the first Alien i so wished to see again. A mysterious, almost mysthical, perfect organism, smart, lethal, adaptative, not some big dumb cockroaches who zooms at you in a direct line.
I enjoyed Prometheus and Covenant way more than half the things they made after Alien. Aliens was great, but i don't like how the Xenomorph got killed so easily, the perferct organism just got demolished by some rando marines who did not even take them seriously at first, the movie achieve greatness with a lot of tense moments like the barricade scene and great charcaters like Newt, but there is numerous things that i dislike about the whole concept.
Im still conflicted about the whole Queen deal, i found the Eggmorphing way more original and intriguing. Still Aliens i great, i can't give it too much crap it really that good, but it declined after that and had some really bad ideas.
Prometheus at least tried to get back to the Gigeresque mysthic that i craved, Covenant fumbled giga hard but at least it tried something different. I disliked the whole "David was the creator" as much as the next guy, and i do think it's an oversight since we see Xenomorph representation on walls in Prometheus. David can't create something that is already represented on an old wall now, could he ?
I also disliked how everyone, Xenomorph included was so dumb, i could see the strings from my seat.
Im still curious about a third "Prometheus" movie for what it could do and i prefer a movie like that over another Romulus.
Romulus..... Ah Romulus, i saw the Alien 1 vibe and got fooled, i wished for something that just, was not delivered.
Amazing visuals, cool actors and all but what did this movie bring to the table ? Nothing. The Aliens are a joke, they just gets demolished by someone who never ever used a rifle before, so much for a perfect organism. The only actual great scene in Romulus for me is the elevator one when an Alien is hiding right next to them and you see it crawl in the backscene only to impale a guy with it's tail. Sneaky, smart, perfect. You know the thing that isn't iconic about the Alien and that should not be it's power despite the fact that it is it's primary weapon in every entry and the most lethal thing in it's arsenal alongside the "Kiss of death".
The Alien in the first movie was cunning, stealthy, lethal, it did not need to be a flashy dash mad lad or cheesy monster doing big hiss before dying to a pulse rifle. Aliens and Romulus just said "Hey, there are 135 Aliens in this station, just make them run at them like idiots, marines will kill 24 of them, but guess what, we have some more ants coming ! If we make them all smart, then or heroes will have no chance whatsoever, go big dum dum". Absolute massacre to how the first Alien was portrayed. Almost anything from the first movie was lost, even alongside the fanbase.
Rant's over, i got carried away, but yeah, like you said, we are not the target audience ... You must feel something akin to this toward Resident Evil i guess.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880454#Comment_3880454
All fair, and I guess it is subjective, and my own personal disdain. I suppose my real issue is, while I respect the Resident Evil franchise, I had a similar reaction to RE3 as I've had here.
I was actually quite annoyed to learn of how much of a tank in RE3R Jill is. I've always argued that one of the strongest aspects of Resident Evil is the fact that even regular zombies are dangerous (something woefully lacking in many other franchises). Even the regular scrubs are entities to be feared, especially in RE1.
This praise has to have an asterisk with RE3R... I'm not trying to rag on the game, its got many great moments... however Nemesis is canonically insanely fast and powerful, lightyears beyond the threat of regular zombies... and yet Jill withstands a kick and even a chokeslam from him right at the start if the game?
This is already not good, you could have done many things that would have been far better to create a desperate situation without making Nemesis look weak. Like if he just squished her head when he had hold of her like he should have done, the game ends right there... Her plot armour is insane in that game, and no matter how much of a fan I am of the franchise as a whole, I can't help but wince at how ridiculous these moments are, and how much they lower the stakes cause I know any desperate situation for Jill can just have the Universe bend to her will to give her a a get outbof jail free card... this does a real number on the perceived threat of the Nemesis when he goes selectively stupid at certain moments.
This moment we'll chalk it up to artistic license and ignore it, but this is not something we should get into the habit of doing... and this frustration hits a boiling point for me when she gets hit by a rocket launcher and survives...
My basic problem is... I don't look at Jill surviving that rocket launcher hit as "Oh wow! That was close! How lucky and tough Jill must be to survive that!"... what I actually think is "Wait wut? Seriously? She survived that!? Yikes... either I have to accept the writing is absolutely ass... or Nemesis' Rocket Launcher is canonically a complete piece of crap... it can't kill a regular human on a near point blank detonation. If it can't even do that, why the hell is he using it? He himself is 10 times more dangerous than this piece of garbage?". Or at least I would if it weren't for the aforementioned problem.
I suppose if I'm honest with myself, this is probably why I push back on it so hard... it was done poorly in RE3R and annoyed me there, and it would annoy me just as much in DBD, the same way I criticise Chris punching the boulder... I don't consider that to exactly be a highlight of the series.
The other examples you've given of thimgs in DBD are something I can perceive as survivable... you can imagine a hit being made that wasn't flush in these cases. Hatchet to the shoulder, harpoon misses vital organs, dracula flames catching the leg, Pyramid Head knife getting glancing blow, even the flames of the turret would burn you, but not kill you, and if you dashed through them quickly, you might get away with only minor burns or none at all...
When it comes to exploaives on the other hand... there is no way to survive being in a rocket launchers blast radius... yes it did it in RE3R... But I levy the same criticisms at that game, and I don't think just because the source turns its brain off and does something silly that contradicts its own world rules, it's should be a free license for DBD to do the same.
However... all of that said... it IS a iconic part of the game... so perhaps I should just step aside on this one 😒
Fair enough !
If you perceive everything i said as "yeah i can survive it" then i understand you better, that's why we are not on the same page, because i don't think i would.
I agree on that RE3R part, i was, just like you, completly baffled when Jill survived Nemesis smashing trought a wall, grabbing her and tossing her into the building on fire, or the rocket hit, or everything else actually.
Unlike you however, i am no fan of Resident Evil as a whole, i really love Nemesis and H.U.N.K but that's about it. Nemesis even in the OG was always ridiculous, he had the same weak RPG and ridiculous raw power, it's in the DNA of Resident Evil at this point and why i can't take anything seriously about it. Leon and Chris are also ridiculously overpowered. Just like you said, the boulder punching scene is... well, there i guess.
IDK why i love Nemesis that much, it's the only RE i played a lot and did all trophies/runs on it, never played any other RE except the second one which is excellent.
In Silent Hill, i can completly get behind the protag because i could see myself being clumsy in my movement or survived getting hit by a knife or a steel pipe, in RE tho, yeah no way, the two first maybe, after that it's BS after BS, and that's part of the RE charm i guess. RE3, RE4, RE5, RE6, RE7, RE8 are all ridiculous.
I guess Capcom always had something with overly powerfull human, just look at Monster Hunter, it's ridiculous but hilarous at the same time.
Nemesis does not need the RPG to be Nemesis however, you don't have to "step aside", you have your view of thing, if we had to bend each tile we are not in the majority, we would be damned.
People do not understand that we are not getting Nemesis from RE3, we are getting an adapation of Nemesis from RE3.
In the same vein that we are not getting a 7 m/s Xenomorph with ovomorphs, wall crawling, and every other BS things that would never work in dbd.
At the end of the day, modern Resident Evil IS a "turn my brain off" franchise logic/realism why, every one of them has something ridiculous and i think that is why RE is so successfull, it's over the top, it's goofy, probably the least horror of the horror games, it's simply super entertaining and creative. It's way more action than it is horror and i think people love that, just see the debate between Alien and Aliens. One is horror, the other is action and horror adjacent, see which one is the favorite. Chucky is in the same vein, absolutly not a true horror movie, it's action/comedy horror and it works.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880318#Comment_3880318
Well, I'm happy to have the discussion and I'm a collosal nerd and lore guy, so if you prove me wrong, I'll happily accept it... but you say yourself the explosion on the rocket is a small explosion. We're already in the realm of bad before we start.
The crux of my point back when I made this post (and I still believe it now) is that the examples you give here are all things you COULD survive. You would be mamed by all of these things for sure... but it isn't infeasible for these things to hit without killing you, even the chainsaws and Oni's club are things you could theoretically survive. All of these things are a different game to a modern weapon of explosive ordinance... a rocket launcher is something usually designed to destroy structures and vehicles. Even a grenade launcher has a very large blast radius designed to kill everyone in a room, and I think we can all agree that a grenade launcher is smaller than a rocket launcher...
You would have to scale down a Rocket Launcher to something like the Unknown's UVX bombs to balance it... and when you do that, it ceases to be a Rocket Launcher. Straight up the scale of drop off you're talking here is taking a Rocket Launcher down to literally a pop rocket firework launcher... might burn you badly, blow a small piece out of you... but it wouldn't kill you... and great you've balanced it... but it's not a rocket launcher anymore.
It'd be like bringing in an AK-47 that is shooting airsoft rounds... yeah they can pierce you and cause some unpleasant damage... but it ain't gonna kill you, and asking me to turn off my brain to be able to buy it as a threat, while also buying it as what its meant to be is a big ask.
I mean to give full benefit of the doubt, I understand that Nemesis, Wesker, Pyramid Head are all nerfed substantially from their canon strength… that can all be explained by the Entity and it serving its goal of keeping survivors alive and suffering to feed it... it's not impossible for the Entity to limit a rocket launcher too since it seems to govern the physics in this world... but it raises the point of why even have a rocket launcher if it has to be nerfed so hard to point it's not longer a rocket launcher?
The version I proposed above where you get 1 hail mary big badda boom shot is the only way I can see of it not being silly... and I don't see a way you can add that without it being grossly unfair to the player on the receiving end.
If you've got an idea, I'm keen to hear it, but just saying "make the explosion smaller" enters a realm where you have to ask, why even give him a rocket launcher at all if he isn't launching rockets?
Annnnnd i forgot to tag you, my bad, you can see my answer to your post above this one.
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I am also happy we can have this discussion.
Now, i want to clarify something, the "small explosion" part is litteral to RE3 and RE3R, for some reasons, Nemesis has a watered down Rocket Launcher. Jill one is waaay stronger in the remake.
Now, like i said, we already have flamethrower that magically does not harm survivors, a rotating 40 METERS per second hatchet throw in the face, an harpoon the size of an arm with spikes everywhere impaling you, the actual plague, cenobite's chains (in the movies, they are not joking at all), the Alien capable of breaking trought metal reinforced doors, Nemesis walking trought concrete, Wesker neck breaking speed, Pyramid head colossal Great Knife swings, Dracula's Hellfire, Vecna's necromantic powers of throwing the dead at you, Sadako's curse, electric shocks multiple times and so much more.
Entity shenanigan are absolutly real and i think i have a great point here :
The Uroboros, in RE, it's either you are worthy or black noodles puddle transformation. In DBD, it's a slight debuff to speed and an OS to an already OS worthy move realism wise. Same for the T-Virus.
Why would we want an RPG if it's watered down ?
Because it's Nemesis from Resident evil: Nemesis, and he had a watered down RPG that did not break terrains, did not killer Jill in one hit, had infinite ammos and small explosions for some reasons.
How could we adapt it ?
Prototype 01 : The safe one
A supply case spawns with a Rocket Launcher after losing 3 generators. The Nemesis can interact with it to grab the RPG after 5s, emitting a global sound cue. An additional supply case will spawn when the exit gates are powered.
Press the ability button (replace tentacle strike) to aim the RPG after 0.8 second, becoming still, an orange line/dot will show where you aim. Cancelling the aim stance makes you slown down the weapon moving at a pace of 3.85 m/s for 1.5s.
Press the basic attack button while aiming to shoot a rocket, after a delay of 0.6 second where the dot becomes red, the rocket will go at a pace of 20 m/s (it's kinda slow in RE, we could make it slower). Uppon impact, the rocket will explode.
Direct hit will instantly down a survivor, while everyone caught in a 3 meters radius (Freddy's Rupture in PTB) will lose an health state. Pallets can be broken by it.
Cooldown between each shots is 1 second with three rockets, after that, the Nemesis will throw away the RPG in a 3s animation.
I don't think we will agree on all of this, but it is perfectly fine, there is no objective truth for this topic, i can see an RPG for Nemesis but i can't fathom an AK-47 for some reasons. I am on the opinion that Alien is an amazing design and killer, that Facehuggers were a terrible idea because they would have to be watered down way too much (the time of coma + certain death + impossible surgery), and of course, you perfectly know my Alien view, is not shared at all.
Exactly like this topic, it is simply a matter of opinion (tho, i am biased since i love Alien too much as an IP but still, the killer power is a perfect adaptation on paper, i would adjust some things tho).
I respect your opinion, and i do join you on the AK-47 point, but, i could actually see an RPG for Nemesis and i don't think it would break immersion after the flamethrowers, the magic, the plague, the imo, very lethal weapons and the raw power of some killers.
Also, i don't think the RPG is the best direction for Nemesis since he already have the tentacle (it's litteral body since the tentacle is part of the parasite that controls the Tyrant corpse, the choice of Behaviour tobuse tentacle strike is perfect for the Nemesis as it represent him for it's one trully unique aspect, the Nemesis alpha parasite). I would add a sprint to Nemesis like Vecna's fly that can deep wound someone, break things and initiate a quicker vault ala wesker. I would delete the zombies (hot take i know) to justify the sprint power budget wise, and i would slightly change the virus/mutation/vaccines dynamic in a more engaging way. Animation wise, i would make Nemesis walk in Nemesis fashion, and reuse the running animation for the sprint (speeding it up and making it more aggressive looking).
Base design should be made more sturdy looking with a better face, fiercier. Boots sound should be changed to be more in line with those of RE3R (which are better imo). And i also think he shoud grunt and says S.T.A.R.S more often.
Perk wise, Eruption and Lethal are fine, i would make hysteria works when someone lose an health state instead of hitting a healthy survivor and mayyybe up the duration to 40, but that may be too much idk, maybe it would need to be lowered instead since it would activate way more often, could be fun to test in a ptb.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785167#Comment_3785167
A bad idea in the source does not make it a good idea to bring across my guy… Whether you love or hate Resident Evil, even as a fan and labelling it as the Resident Evil goofy cheese that we adore, anyone would have to admit Jill tanking that hit was pretty ridiculous if you consider it with even the hardest lean of realism. Like the game doesn't have to be realistic… but it does have to have some semblance of logic and rules in place… and once you've defined your logic and rules in your Universe, you have to stick to them, you can't just break them at will… and a Rocket Launcher in DBD just doesn't make sense.
I mean think about it… are we honestly saying a survivor could survive a direct hit from a rocket launcher… but not a knife to the stomach from Michael Myers? No amount of suspended disbelief allows that to not be a 1 shot… and you might think it's not important, but to plenty of people, it is.
Having the world grounded in rules allows lots of people, like myself, to maintain investment in the world and story. If literally anything goes, then that lowers the stakes, and drastically reduces investment in that story/world/universe, because you know that there is no cause and effect, whatever the creator wants can just be deus ex machina'd in without rhyme or reason. E.g. Why should I care about the narrative of trying to kill/catch survivors, when the Entity can instead just say "I choose to not let this survivor die in this explosion, cause it is not yet time". Like why am I as the killer even here?
Even if we push that aside…. for balancing, that'd be awful… The Unknown's main power is that he can hit AoE… and even he has to hit the target twice, AND he can't hit direct hits…. How precisely are we gonna balance a Rocket Launcher… when Unknown's goop is balanced, and takes 2 hits to injure someone?
Like if I was to be serious about adding a rocket launcher for Nemesis… I'd say… a rocket launcher spawns with a single shot in a crate after all injections have been used by survivors. This rocket launcher has a minimum arming distance of 24m, and will instant down any survivor caught in the outer explosion, or hit directly by the missile before it is armed. Any survivor caught in the central explosion of a shot over 24m is instantly mori'd and turned to giblets.
Pyramid does not OS you with the great knife, but myers can OS you with a kitchen knife. Nemesis can break a concrete wall with his bare fist, yet he just slaps survivors for a health state. The Alien can't OS you with it's tail, flamethrowers can't burn survivors even when they are in the fire. Falling from 5m high and just "oof" as a survivor. Taking a 40 m/s hatchet in the head, taking a spear from deathslinger and getting IMPALED by it (seriously look at it).
I understand where you are coming from, but i disagree with it, for me, Jill tanking the rocket launcher (which does a super small explosion btw) is the exact same BS that makes Claudette's neck survive getting grabbed by Albert "i dodge bullet" Wesker. Just the kinetic force would be enough to kill you there.
It could be balanced, Nemesis himself is already way too strong for the logic of the game, not even getting on someone like Dracula throwing litteral Hellfire pillars at you ...
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Amazing 👏
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@Japp said:
Everyone saying lights out was bad… I don't understand why.
I wish DBD was like the lights out modifier but with lights on. What I mean is I would like to play DBD without terror radius, red stains, auras or scratch marks. Call me crazy.
I think DBD would really be a horror game if it was like that.
No terror radius would be so cool
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@fixblitzskin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875636#Comment_3875636
Hoping that he is unique. Nemesis and alien have been the biggest disappointers and would hate for springtrap to be the trifecta. Scott is like super protective over his IP so maybe he wouldn't let him be dash killer number 89 or mash up of old killers. Solo survivor is tough, i play a duo and i hardly win but that is the Non-swf survivor life. Decent chases and 1 flashlight save are enough to "win" a game to me nowadays.
While Nemesis was somewhat disapointing, i heavily, heavily disagree that Alien was.
Let me explain it before taking the shotgun out:
Alien is one of my favorite IP, i have novels, comics, roleplaying games ala D&D, video games that i have 100%'ed like Alien Isolation (next is Dark Descent), figurines and all kinds of things. So im at least invested. By the way, i recommend reading Aliens: Phalanx, it was trully incredible (Aliens vibe).
Now, since i am the one writing and designing my RPG story with the Alien packs, i like to create things and in 2020, i started to create dbd chapters for the fun of it, after that, i would usually show it to my friends to gather feedback. I started with Fnaf and then Alien.
And let me say, Alien was really challenging to do:
- I started with the "everyone idea", let it crawl everywhere, but it was a just not possible in dbd, too much incoherences and oversights. So i scrapped that quickly
- Ovomorphs are also plain terrible. You need to butcher their legacy to implement them into the game and they take too much power budget for the Alien itself, you can't have stealth, mobility, lethality, slowdown etc. So Ovomorphd are a no-no.
- Acid spit is just no, it came with arcade game and the need of enemy diversity, it's not relevant to Alien and even Aliens so just no. Acidic blood is a concept trap, nothing in dbd will seriously injure a Xenomorph, scrapped that except for a meme add on.
- The vents were by far the best idea, it implemented the Alien behaviour really well and was just working for the game.
In Alien Isolation, the vents are everywhere and mind you, the Alien is not stealthy at all, you hear it physically crawling in vents and you have the Motion Tracker that is way more accurate than the one in dbd, the terror of the Xenomorph comes from it's sheer lethality, if it sees you, you are as good as dead (except flamethrower, does that ring a bell ?). You are encouraged to fear it because you associate it's mere presence with a game over, and the tension come from hiding from it. In dbd that is impossible as it would break game balance. Alien can't be that dangerous, maps are too open and lacks hiding place.
To make the Xenomorph in dbd use the tunnels and not just walk around, we need to not give it perma stealth (we could have an add on for that). Having a lower terror radius is smart because it intencivise to use tunnels while making the Alien "Danger Radius" a little bit smaller.
The tail attack is a great idea, and the consensus that the Alien does not use it's tail that often is just... false. In Alien 1, you know, THE Alien, it never, ever crawled on a wall or a ceiling, but it did use it's tail and even if not always using it like a weapon, it was always put in your face (even in Brett's death it's the first thing you see). The tail is the most lethal weapon of the Alien, it's used in every game, movies, books, comics and even in board games.
In Aliens, which already deters from the whole Giger vibe, the Aliens crawls like two times on the ceiling, the scene where they blocks door and Burk betray them, and the nest scene where they are all around the walls.
In Alien: Isolation, the best Alien game ever made up to 2025, the Alien never even crawl around anything but the floor, even in vents it's just crawling straight, not on the side or at the ceiling of it.
The real "crawling around fast" is from AvP which is not canon to the Alien universe. Alien is it's own franchise, and personnaly, i dislike the general association of those two. I think AvP does not do justice to the Alien and is generally just a cool action movie ala GodzillaVKong (probably a very controversial take, but yeah, i don't like AvP) and also Alien 3 with the runner alien (which was why the power in ptb was called runner mod btw).
That does not mean that the Xenomorph isn't capable of doing it, what i want to say is that is not that important, it's a cool feature but it's not the Xenomorph identity.
To summarize a bit, the Alien is dbd is a perfect depiction of what it is in Alien Isolation and in Alien 1. An extremly lethal organism that stalks it's preys unseen before emerging to strike a lethal blow. The terror of the Alien comes from the unseen threat and the fact you know it's here, somewhere.
Dead by Daylight design implements:
- Tunnels to replace vents, with footsteps detection giving the stalker vibe, a complete silent and undetectable pursuit, a way to move around the map extremly fast and the absolute pleasure to admire those beautifull tunnels (i know they are from Aliens with the hive resin, but it is just gorgeous and i think it does the giger vibe well enough).
- A very threatening presence, once it's on you, you are in danger. The mobility route would have been difficult, you either make it a Billy knockoff which would not warrant the turrets or a somewhat Chucky dash which would also be pretty dull. So what we have was a fairly cool compromise, we wanted a crawling killer ? Done ! The eerie vibe from seeing it crawling in the distance is great.Tail attack is also better than a OS mechanic ala Ghostface or Myers.
- Turrets are iconic, they completly change the pace of a trial making the Xenomorph the first killer of it's kind and a trully unique design. The motion tracker could be tweaked around but never deleted and the flamethrower is just perfectly done.
The Alien chapter is, for me, one of the biggest disapointment in term of people reaction and i do think the backlash it gets is unwarranted. Alien is in an identity crisis with fans of the first one (Giger and myths vibe, horror of the unknown), the second one (ants behaviour, action paced) and the AvP one which is the biggest from what i've seen. The amount of people saying they are harscore fans and also disliking it is surprising to me as it is perfectly in character for the Xenomorph. Yeah, it can do more, but you can't have it all and what we got is perfectly adapted to the game you are playing.
Instead of saying:"Behaviour failed", i think it's more accurate to say "Each people wanted something different from this identity crisis franchise and it would have been disapointing no matter what or how". With have i've read since this chapter inclusion, i think Alien was bound to failure and should have maybe never even come to this game in the first place for how people react to it. It would be an "around the corner license" that people would keep awaiting, because the delivery was never ever going to be as spectacular as the unparrels anticipations.
What is actually wrong with the Alien chapter in my opinion ?
- Ripley is sadly not Ripley, i can't say it's BHVR fault so i'll pass, but i understand the disapointment.
- Alien is limited and it's design should be pushed to the limit, by that i mean, only 7 stations ? The biggest change Alien could get is more station to really play with the tunnels a lot, it is it's whole design and 7 is too little ! Plenty of time, you have to get of your way to use them and that is a very big design oversight. Imagine Alien Isolation with 1/4 the vents, yeah, way less threatening.
- Add ons should have more transformative effects like a no crawler mode, not turrets giga stealth experience.
- The dbd design is not adapted to Alien. There is no claustrophobia in maps (you can see from on border to another) or darkness at all, the red stains is weird, dbd is a cat and mouse game and with the Alien vibe being: When you are seen, you are dead. It was certain that the Alien implementation would be weird.
- Take the same design, with more tunnels, in a dark map that is also very calustrophobic and you would have a design that is scary. Putting Alien in Coldwing was gling to be weird.
- PTB terror radius was perfection, and it's removal is very sad. Chase music should have been tweaked
- Alien Queen is ugly, the mouth is wrong, the legs are wrong, the little arms are wrong, it has a human tongue and even the neck is wrong. They transformed the amazing Queen design into this, bad wish version. They can keep the cake i don't care but fix the mouth, the neck and the arms please.
For a game like dbd, i can say that the Alien chapter is by far my favorite, i would give it a 9/10. Missing one point for the "missing stations" part and the PTB music. The skin is non important at the end lf the day and "map design" is not Alien's fault.
As for Springtrap, i will main it no matter what, i trust Scott and Behaviour's decisions and design choices, at the end of the day, i love fnaf and Springtrap, he can throw an axe or have a simple power, i don't really care, my only priority is that it make senses for it's character. (so for exemple my personnal limit is Alien with a gun doing dances in Fortnite, that's a fat no for an Alien fan just out of sheer respect for the franchise).
I expect Fnaf to generate a lot of money to BHVR and for dbd to gains a lot of players, some will stay, most will leave because of the core problems of the game. As for the dbd community itself, i expect a huge failure akin to Alien but worse. Those who despise the IP basekit will spit venom like they always do, the fan will be disapointed just like with Alien because Springtrap is also a complex character than can do a lot, and just like Alien, every Springtrap concepts are different (suits-trap, phantom like power, stalking, vents, remnats, so on and so on). So yeah, probably another Alien coming.
The best IP succes are the unexpected one because there is no expectations. Castlevania has Dracula. Dracula could be complained because "Hey dracula can do this and that, it's not accurate, Wolf form is not that iconic to the character" but no, because almost nobody in the community knows what even Castlevania is about (the games i mean). Big awaited IPs have it rough because people want something particular, and that's why Nemesis was disapointing.
Wesker wasn't expected in dbd, almost no one asked for him, they wanted Birkin, Mt.X, the Bakers or Dimitrescu. He was a great surprise, a very simple and goofy character, cool lore and simple goals. His powers is not entirely accurate to his character but i guess he is not Alien so it works for him. Wesker was nerfed from RE and does not have access to all of his arsenal, does that make in any less good ? No.
Are Wesker players RE fans ? No, most of them have never played a RE game in theor like and just like the gameplay. What is the point of saying that ? The IP in itself is more of a weakness than a strength, when dbd was small, Alien would have massively succeded, but now, a new IP is not that attractive because everyone already knows dbd. The only thing staying are tremendous expections. Terminator, Predator, Candyman, those chamters would bring no one, because the people liking those are most likely already in the game. But you can be sure everyone and their mothers would scream and complain about how Predator is unfaithul, or it's power is a recycle etc. There is no point in this anymore. Fnaf is good thing because it does not catter to the same community, it's for a new generations of horror enthusiast, it is the most iconic horror IP of modern era.
Apply all my takes to Freddy now :
The character can do so much and his powers are so vast and great, he is bound to failure, no Freddy power concept will every satisfy the majority and he will always be a disapointment.
Long post, but i always do this, cheers, have a good day !
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Honestly, I personally dont care if someone suicides on Hook or if they DC. The Bot is not helpful (and depending on the Killers Perks even worse than a lost teammate).
But people give up when they dont have fun. I think that the reasons might seem silly to other people, but you dont know what the person themselves experienced before. E.g. I never blame people who give up against a Nurse, since playing against a Nurse is usually pointless, since you have to hope that she is learning the Killer. Not doing that myself, but a few days ago I faced 4 Nurse-players in a row, all being obnoxious with muiltiple Slowdowns and the Mangled Add On and it was not fun.
And for me, a Killer who gives me that "ugh"-Feeling is Twins. Because a Twins-Game usually results in 4 people being slugged on the ground and it is so frustrating to play against Victor, since his Hitbox is as big as a truck and you often see his visual model fly past you when he hits you.
So that is one thing - even tho you can obviously say that this does not apply to all instances, simply because people also go next against a Wraith, who is really fine to verse.
And another thing are obnoxious playstyles. E.g. in Chaos Shuffle two days ago I faced a Huntress. We had one AFK-player (which the Huntress new about, because he had 3 Crows) and this person only came back to give up shortly before they reached second stage (so they did one attempt and thats it). Game lost. And the Huntress still felt the need to proxycamp the second person she hooked… And I cannot blame that person either that they gave up.
Sometimes you just feel like "Ok, if you need this win that badly, just have it.".
Last sentence is soooo true, you are on point. I have not touched survivor since december because i felt i was at wits end with the role.
7 games, 3 blight, the only thing different about them were the skin (not even kidding oml), then 2 nurse and 2 Billy, all turbo sweating like it's a tournament.
I told myself exactly what you said: "You want to win so badly, then have it", after 6 games where i was like, "God of mmr, put me against a non sweatlord for just one match", and no, another Billy, freshly out of sweatlord inc.
So yeah, i decided to stop playing survivors at all for now, if i play dbd it's for killer or i simply play another game.
I won't gamble my limited time for such low chances of actually having fun.
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The only exciting thing for me is FNAF, Springtrap is going to join the gang with Pyramid head and Alien for sure, whatever his kit is.
Im done with survivor for now, it's way too miserable to play for me, i take no pleasure whatsoever facing Blight/Billy/Wesker tournament over and over again. I'll pick it up when FNAF comes up to play against Springtrap for a while.
Just in case he gets forgotten instantly like Alien, i will enjoy the first two weeks of overexposure and then go back to killer when he fades away.
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Good luck 👍
This can get painfull if you are not solid with your Alien or your playstyle isn't tunnel focused at all.
The ambush/underground menace is my normal playstyle, and this is my personal default-ish build. I switch some perks/add ons from time to time but the idea is the same.
I know that players usually ignore tunnels except at the very start of the trial. They mostly play like an angry scorpion. I strongly advise against that. Even if you get demolished, this build should teach you how to use tunnels to pressure the map and seize opportunities by not overcommiting. You underground tunnels are the Xenomorph main plwer, what makes it unique and one of the best thing in the game. (I wish we could get more stations to use tunnels even more).
You may be a very angry scorpion, but survivor can demolish you in the 1v1. Great tiles, strong turrets, some distance, cheeky perks especially exhaust and you will lose your time trying to stab them.
Bad stations spawn are not uncommon, but it is uncommon for them to all be bad. You will have some, but not all of them. Don't be too harsh on yourself for those games. You will lose most of your game when tunnels spawn are bad because you just lost 70% of your power. In those games, yeah, go angry scorpion on them.
Gl Hf
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Here's a few:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5QO1PAWE7D6I/image-2025-01-23-153951408.png
If you're confident in your ability to survive while injured then try this. Since using FTP to heal someone else counts as finishing a heal for Clean Break, the idea is essentially that you can stay Broken for 2 minutes and in the end you got to instant heal another survivor and eventually you get healed back up yourself too with minimal time investment, you just have to wait for FTP Broken to end and then get someone to start your Clean Break. IW is there to help you survive while injured and Empathy helps you find injured survivors to heal. You can use any item you want with this, doesn't really matter.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/H4U7HVYRPPDP/image-2025-01-23-154909283.png
This basically revolves around using Dramaturgy and making it even more powerful than normal. At the start of the match you want to get Hardened active as quickly as possible, if you find a totem before you find a chest, Illumination can show you where the chests are (and then also helps you and the rest of your team find generators). Once Hardened is active, if Dramaturgy would normally make you scream, it reveals the killer's aura to you instead, making 3 out of its 4 random effects positive for you. If you do get exposed, Finesse can help you survive it.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/88PRA7DWHGYM/image-2025-01-23-155532012.png
At first glance Sloppy/BBQ/DMS looks like a somewhat meta build but there's a special gimmick to this build that makes it unique - these addons in combination with these perks help you interrupt things.
- The iridescent addon Vorpal Sword makes your dispelling sphere cause injured survivors to scream when they get revealed and also inflicts the Broken status effect for 30 seconds (you also gain the ability to break pallets with Mage Hand but that's not what we're using it for here).
- The yellow addon Glass Eye makes the dispelling sphere 2 meters bigger and makes it travel 10% faster.
- After you hook a survivor, you can see faraway survivors with BBQ and use your dispelling sphere to either force them to scream if they're on a gen (triggering DMS) or if you see someone healing you can send it to them and stop them because the addon will make them Broken.
- When this happens, Hemorrhage (either from Sloppy or Blood Echo) will immediately kick in and regress all their healing progress while they're Broken with nothing they can do to stop it. If convenient for you, you can also go and chase them and Blood Echo will likely have them exhausted as well, on top of them being unable to heal because of your addon. You do have to get a good start to the match for this to be super effective, but Vecna is pretty good in chase and if you get this build going it can often snowball the game for you.
During the "Thrill is 45s" era, i faced a Vecna that used this add on to make us scream and interrupt the cleansing, it was counterable, but painful. He also made sure to keep us injured of course.
The Devour was in the center of the map, in the main building (asylum so great map for us), up the stairs and after some meters. It was long to go there and he could interrupt us every ~30 seconds. Not even counting it's physical presence on top.At least he could not interrupt us with FoTD.
Once the Devour kicked in, we quicky lost the trial.
With some coordination and a more tactical approach, we could have won, but damn, what a build.
Your build reminded me of this, Vecna interrupting survivors with the iri. Great build !
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To preface this, i can say that i play a lot of Alien since it's my main (one of my two P100, the other being Pyramid Head). I mostly play stupid build like the one im going to explain below.
The build i want to talk about is :
Monitor/Rapid brutality/Mindbreaker/Surveillance
The immersive idea behind this is to be very informed of survivors whereabout, ambush them and seal the deal very fast or disapear.
Monitor and Rapid are the core idea. You either ambush them with the tunnels or approach them with monitor. They will have troubles pre running, even with turrets. Usually, survivors starts to flee when the beeping intensifies a lot, with 18 m/s in tunnel, you will be on top of them. You can also decide to approach from another angle and benefit from monitor, this will confuse them. Xenomorph change it's TR whenever it loses it's power or carry a survivor, with monitor, the TR will be even more inconsistent. Most of the time, they will start running too late. If you encounter a smart one, you can try a bait with the aid of the turrets (i'll elaborate this in the cereal ration part, but you can do it just with the footsteps detection, in short, make the turret beep, watch as the survivor start to GTFO, and follow them underground, then, ambush them for another control station).
When ambushing, use rapid brutality first if possible, then follow up with a tail strike to seal the deal in ~20 seconds, the goal is to chain very short and effecient chase or drop them after getting rid of ressources to further increase the chance of succes of your next ambush.
If they run to a turret, break it and leave if you sense the chase is going to be too time costing.
Mindbreaker will stop them from using sprint burst or other exhaustion to escape your ambushes and Surveillance will keep you informed of survivors activity around key generators. It also makes hearing gens from underground easier.
Nota: Spies from the shadows is nice to replace Surveillance if you want to play Semiotic keyboard. Crawler mode does not alert crows and with 16 meters of TR, you will be stealthy enough to make the survivor think they can disturb crows with impunity. The information gathered with this perk can be very decisive at time.
Fire up can replace RB, the added stats will be handy and you will lose generators.
For add ons, you can use:
Acidic blood: Usefull to have a visual indicator of the time spent in a chase and will simplify your approach.
Self-destruct bolt: Increase your ambush success rate with quick follow up (in shack for exemple).
Kayne's helmet: Just a little love tap before leaving if you have no opportunity to seal the deal fast. Keeping them injured will create opportunities for future ambushes.
Cereal ration: This add ons will let you know if your presence is revealed or not, allowing you to follow survivors who are pre running to the nearest station and potentially ambush them, countering their plans. Does not work everytime, but can be usefull.
Emergency helmet and Lambert's star map: Always usefull to resist turrets, i never use them together and rarely use them at all. They are very valuable but i simply prefer other add ons. Using them or one of them is good for using basic attack on turrets thus losing less distance, probably the two best add ons alongside self-destruct bolt. I recommend Lambert's star map over emergency helmet.
Semiotic keyboard: Can be used to switch Surveillance off for another gimmicky perk like Dragon's grip to increase your ambush potential. Unforeseen can also confuse them.
Crew headset: One of my personal favorite, it's not usefull to patrol gens since you will hear them. But it is incredibly usefull to find a weak target, cut off someone or gather informations early and late. Very usefull add on.
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Separate them, killer items spawns at precise locations (next to gens for Alien and Sadako) like they were meant to be. Chests can be relocated to better places.
Yeah, it's probably a lot of work to separate them and create a second spawn list but it's a definitive solution that will simplify everything in the future.
One spawn set for chests
One for killers items
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@Choaron said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867072#Comment_3867072
Crouch tech did nothing against Xeno my dude. Crouch tech allowed to dodge M2 hits with a relatively high center of gravity. Blight, Billy and Demo were the killers mainly affected by it. Xeno can literally direct his tail at the ground.
Exactly, it's not you dodging, it's the Xeno missing or being over ambitious with the hit.
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The Alien generates 1 charge of Crawler mode per second. In the tunnel and while moving, it's 8 charges.
The Alien reach the crawling state after 35 charges.
So it can reach it by just walking or in the tunnel.
The Ovomorph add on increase the recharge rate by 25% so it takes 28 seconds to charge Crawler mode.
This timer can only be fully reseted by a flame turret removing Crawler mode.
Keep in mind, the Alien stops charging Crawler mode when carrying, if you were already in Crawler mode, it locks you at 75% until you stop carrying, so it will regain it's Crawler mode very fast after a hook.
The Alien has not received any changes since it's early days.
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My problems with the game:
Stomp or be stomped, very strong killers like Nurse, Blight, Billy, the extreme difference of value between perks, unecessary bleed out, every game being a slog against the same killers (yesterday i got 3 Blight in a row with the exact same build and add ons ...........). The constant bugs and the game not working properly, the extreme toxic ambiance with people tbagging and killer humping you for 4 minutes straight. Survivor teaming up with the killer in a 2v1 scenario to get hatch and some more.
My points of solutions :
- Stomp or be stomped: No solutions, the game is designed this way, you would have to change the game immensly.
- Very strong killers: I feel this especially for the mobility killers, like Blight, Wesker, Billy, the only one that i think is perfectly fair and balanced is Oni. Mobility is such a pain to go against, you can't reach anything, you can't make distance, you can't finish your gen, you can't heal the unhooked because these guys laugh at the concept of distance. Facing a Ghostface and a Blight is just day and night and it's one of the most frustrating thing in the game, especially when you chain 5 or moremobility killers back to back (yesterday i did 3 Blight, 1 Billy and 2 Nurse, after that i switched game because i was frustrated to die at 5 gens under 4 regressions and endless slugging in soloQ, mmr be damned). The solutions would be to nerf their speed or up their cooldowns idk, i might be the only one to dislike them, but they feel miserable. Anti loop killer are easier for me, a mobility killer can hit me almost everytime if he does it right and you can never distance yourself from them, a deathslinger or Nemesis can't do anything when you are not in their effective range or behind cover, they will down you when they are in position to do so but they are easier to counter for me atleast.
- Perks: Nerf gen perks for both side, give side objective instead of "watch bar fill up/down" and buff other perks.
- Bugs and toxicity: Slow down the chapters and take some time to patch the game and take care of it's health.
I love this game, but it is very hard to play without descending into madness after 3 games of survivors, and it's not better with Killer. Somehow the game is frustrating on both side ( Killer when the mmr decide to obliterate you, being outmatched is normal, but sometimes it's so drastic there isn't even a match, you just get decimated) and survivors for the endless Blight with 4 gens perks and a passion for watching you lick the floor.
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Xenomorph. Going back to old dbd, i would miss my Alien. Plus, turrets beeping and the Xenomorph animations would be so cool with the old dark and foggy atmosphere.
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The chase music itself could be improved since it was causing headache to some people. But the terror radius was godly.
A shame it was changed entirely, only the 32 meters part remains similar to the old one.
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Hello,
The Alien is a very unique killer in the sense that it is very lethal up close and survivors have to outmacro it to keep it at bay. You are right, the Alien is very hard to loop (maybe even impossible in good hands and a non bustes tile).
So, to answer your question:
In the early game, try to start slow as it will patroll everywhere for a noise. Crouch, grab a turret, set up and brace yourself for it is probably coming. If it has lethal, well, good luck, you will be in the worse position:
Worse position: If the Alien emerges from a tunnel near you and you have no turrets in sight you can try to bait the tail strike by faking vaccum or stuns, of course it's a 50/50, either he sees it and you get m1'ed or you win the mindgame. Windows are way more dangerous since Alien can tail strike on reaction the vault (the danger of the stuns makes pallets safer),. Obviously if you have the distance, run away. Try to break LoS as much as possible, sharp turn windows are great and can nullify is tail strike for a loop or too, be wary, lots of Alien plays Self Destruct Bolt (30% vault speed in crawler mode) + bamboozle.
Good position: If you have a turret nearby, you can run to it, even if the Alien just smack it instantly it will give you a "bodyblock" of distance (depends if it has particular add ons but we'll keep it simple). The burn is only a punishment for ignoring the turret, you should not bank on it, place them away from you path so the Alien has to deviate it's pathing to get it and lose precious meters.
Okay solution: If you have a bad turret, either you move it, or you use the motion tracker to GTFO as soon as the beeps gets too violent (don't wait for it to emerge, it's too lethal for you to lose distance, you can stay and bank on the fact it won't hear you but it will probably emerge if the gens has progress or you runned/walked), crouch and holding a turret will hide you from it.
By fire be purged solution: Double turrets will either force it upward for 35s (without ovomorph add on) or make it retreat to the tunnels, be carefull, it could follow you from below and follow you while recharging crawler mode. You have to really place them badly to not knock it out. You can use double setups in high traffic place, or in crucial moments to obliterate the Alien's momentum.
Alien is really uniquely challenging to play and to face, and i do understand that many hates it for that. I personnally love it just like you with Freddy so im biased. At the end of the day, there is no miracular solution against the Perfect Organism.
I won't lie to you about your chances, but, you have my sympathy.
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Hello, some niche things for my main, the Alien.
Tail attack:
- The verticality allows for some unique hits. For exemple, if someone goes bellow the stairs near the helicopter of RPD and you are upstairs, you can hit a near 90° tail strike from above. This logic applies for nearly every loops like this, meaning you can hit some nasty hits from above and below.
- There are a lot of sneaky strikes possible, another exemple would be the shack from Eyrie of crows. There is a hole in the wall, you can shoot trough that and hit someone looping (ive done that numerous times, they never see it coming).
The tunnels:
- Sometimes, after hitting someone near a tunnel, you can follow them from below and surprise them with a very quick and sneaky catch up (you can even catch them fleeing to anothrt survivor to heal). This is by no mean a general thing, you need the stars to align to pull it off but it can be a very effective niche move (and a very fun one).
Footsteps and noise detection:
- At the start of the game, remember that holding a turret will hide the survivors from your sensitives senses meaning that you may lurk below a vulnerable target without noticing. The tips is, at the start, trust your guts and emerge at an obvious gen (far from you generally). If you are wrong, re enter the tunnels and this time, lurk a bit to gather info on everyone, they should have started gens for you to hear (they will be confused because the turrets will alert them but you will just pass by). After you gathered everything, pick your target and start chasing. If possible, try to pressure evryone since you have gathered infos on them all, you can achieve that with hit and run or chasing towards other gens.
Remeber that Xeno is a macro heavy killer, use the tunnels to pressure them all.
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"You see it too ?
For me it's always like this..."
On a more serious note, you are lucky it's in the morning for you, i stopped survivor entirely for now because it was just too frustrating and unfun for me.
For now, it's killer or another game.
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Alien, they knew players liked to tunnel so they added a tunnel power.
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Wesker, Billy, Blight
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Bioshock, Amnesia, BatDR, Bloodborne, Dying Light, It, Addams familly, i mean there is so much variety in horror, i don't think they will outlive their own potential.
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Enjoy the treat, you now have the best character ever made both in and out of dbd.
Yes, i'll die on this hill.
More seriously, you can't do much about it, so yeah, try it, maybe you'll like it and join the Xeno gang, we're like 6 right now.
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After how Alien was received and got put in the trash bin, im curious to see if Jason will remain played for more than a month or if he is going to be despised, called boring, bad design etc. Just like Alien, we're going to have massive hype with "omg, waited 6 years for that, massive fan and yare yare", then if the power is not deemed worthy, his fanbase will depop and he will rejoin Demogorgon, Pyramid head, Xenomorph and others in the "Ye, cool, we have him, Terminator next ? Dude, massive fan, i would cry OMG, i want it so bad".
Jason can't really have a dash attack to assure "good design" and "fun to play/fun to play against" so it's going to be a 50/50 on his succes. If he throw things, he will be "a boring killer", if he teleports and m1 with different weapons, it's going to be "weak and uninspired killer" so it's difficult.
What is "good design" for the majority ? Wesker, Billy, Oni, almost every dash based killer plus huntress (the chosen one), every unique killer that focus on macro is despised, ranged is despised, slowdown is despised, stealth is forgotten and not liked much...
He would need something very simple with potential for plays (Low skill floor, high skill ceiling), simple but strong add ons, a power above average in term of strentgh, and something not too unique that does not impact macro gameplay like Sadako, Pinhead and Singularity. With how the game engine is, you can't really avoid the "This killer is just x + x killer", because they are limited in what they can do.
I would probably go with his machete as the m1, the power would be special interactions in the map like picking up other weapons to throw or use temporarily. Settings up traps like nets and other things, a white fog that he can teleport to and a rage mode where he gets buffs to it's destructive potential.
Good luck to him tho, i hope he remains liked for more than a month.
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By (very) far the Alien. The only killer in the game where you need to set up against. Everything in it's kit is super armospheric from the beeping to the roasting.
Love Alien, love that it's in the game, to face and to play, best killer ever.
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Nah bro, it's Xenomorph, this killer is always tunneling.
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@Bookern said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3796941#Comment_3796941
if we should not care about balance then why did Devs and the majority of the player base make and want changes
We are talking about Light's Out, not the base game right ? I agree that talking about balance in the base game is both interesting and important. As for you message.
Devs makes changes for us to enjoy the game and buy things so they can make dbd live another year and so on. They will not listen to "the community", they will listen to their teams, the "community" is just a decision making tool combined with some stats. Also, the "community" is not the forums, the forums are a tiny fraction of dedicated players. Talking about the forums, if you quickly scroll trough it, you will see that everyone complains all the time and that people are mostly against each others. Person A will say killer's OP, person B will say SWF's OP and so on and again.
I don't think people should care about balancing the game in a modifier, BHVR has been balancing the game for years and the complaining never stopped, we have a pretty balanced game right now and people are still very angry. We even got mmr to "balance" things out, great time.
Light's out is not meant to be balanced, it will be gone in 5 days or so, it's not even meant to be played 10 hours straight. It's a funny mode that replace the 4 stealth perks match people will do sometimes. It's not for everyone, but it has it's niche.
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You should not care about balance at all. Light's out is meant to be a scary little mode, pick your killer, have a weird pathing and just try to immerse yourself in the experience. If you are not capable of that, then yes, by all means, stay away from this mode. I prefer to have few people that are playing to have a great experience than the whole community doing their usual tournament trials in "pubs".
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3791293#Comment_3791293
if I had a say, I'd ask devs to add more control stations so they're more accessible and versatile. Or at least raise their priority over chest spawns so I dont have a random useless control station instead of one near main building gen.
I'd also reduce movement speed penalty while carrying turrets. It's a pretty annoying part of facing xenomorph.
Would also be nice to get some way to combat predrops specifically. Like being able to just walk over a pallet and lose crawler mode for ¬10 seconds and get slowed a bit so it works like Vecna's flight over vaults.
I dont think tail attack by itself is problematic like people say it is so I wouldnt focus on changing its mechanics like adding a wind up (idk what people imagine would happen, best case scenario xeno gets a slowdown for winding up and his power just stops being usable in most tiles and more likely scenario he just holds it and it results into creating the very issue people think they had as no wind up xeno has to prefire his power a lot which inherently doesnt let him zone with it).
Other than that, I'd give some basic QoL like reducing tail cd to 2.7s or making anti turret addons partially basekit (just so you can m1 turrets in open field if you react fast enough) and give these addons a more suitable effect instead. So a net loss overall in terms of turret protection, but better basekit.
Like emergency helmet should be an addon that activates when you do get burned out of the crawler mode (like increasing pallet breaking/vaulting speed for some time) and star map should do something with getting information on your surroundings. Maybe revealing auras of turrets within / outside certain range so its a direct upgrade to cereal rations that only work in tunnels.
Raising the numbers of control stations is what Xeno needs the most, having double entrance/exit would make the Alien so much fun/better, you could really play with it's main thing, the tunnels.
I agree with everything else except the anti predrop thing. It's not a bad change at all, but it would be weirdly implemented i think.
I would in addition to everything else make turrets finite and separate the motion tracker from the flame turrets. Limit the Motion Tracker to 1 and 3 flame turrets per stations. You have 7 stations + the additionals one that would only be entrance/exit with not turrets/MT.
This way, you could play stealthy by destroying all 7 MT. As for the FT, it would be just like Wesker, you can run out but it's very unlikely.
After that, i would reinforce it's stealth mechanics and call it a day.
Im not a P100 Xeno like you, but im on the way (62 rn). Best killer ever.
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Light's out is coming, facing Xeno is going to be so atmospheric. I hope i can find some.
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Excited for Light's out, it's my favorite mode.
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Alessa - Getting burned.
Xenomorph - Getting burned.
Damn.
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Why would you do a complete rework for players that will ditch it after 2 days because "it's boring, i don't like it, when is the next killer coming, hope it's x", Xenomorph already has a good pickrate and dedicated players.
The base design is perfect, devs could tweak some stats but otherwise leave it be (don't start a Sadako). Don't like Alien, don't play Alien, it's simple.
Alien is not like Demo or Nemi, they are not the same at all, especially Demo. Wesker is one of the most popular killer and i hear no one saying he's just a Blight + Plague variant. Same applies for the Xenomorph.
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Amnesia and Bioshock
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My favorite chapter in the game alongside Silent Hill so no, im not disapointed in the slightest. Could it receive some changes, yeah for sure, does it need a complete rework, absolutly not imo.
I would love more tunnels, more entrances/exits so i can use the tunnels more. I'll explain:
- Having only 7 stations makes accessing them difficult. You are better off walking than doing a detour to access the tunnels, which is really uncool.
- When you spot someone with the amazing footsteps detection, you just can't attack the guy because the exists are so far from him.
Except that, i would also like to limit the motion tracker since it's uncounterable for the Xeno :
- Motion tracker are now it's own thing, you have 3 flame turrets and 1 motion tracker per stations. There is 7 stations, and X secondary entrances. With 21 flame turrets you have more than enough for a whole trial and more. But, ressources are finite, so just like Wesker, it can dry out eventually.
- With now access to true stealth, the Xenomorph could benefit from the tunnels and it's reduced TR.
Could changes like this make the Xenomorph more interesting for you or do you want something else entirely ?
The Alien is so versatile, you could make multiple kits for it, we could have like 4 Xenomorphs with complete different kits. The fact that people expectations were high and diverse plus the fact that despite the biais, this killer is actually very hard to fully learn, yeah no wonder it's not so played.
Talking about it, it's pick rate is not that bad, it's better than both PH, Onryo and Demogorgon, it's clearly not a forgotten killer.
Like i said, this killer is not for everyone. It's not simple, not intuitive, not straightforward. You have a lot to do with this killer, but it's more macro focused which is usually looked down upon compared to micro skills.
My only true grip is i want more tunnels, it's too cool, i want to be able to use it more.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
Xenomorph is one of the better licensed chapters that is heavily misunderstood by people because they had unrealistic and unreasonable expectations.
Playing xenomorph actually feels like being one with the tunnels allowing to skulk near survivors and attack them, turrets creating lots of cinematic moments and the tail offering a lot of lethality and opportunities for outsmarting your opponents or bruteforcing them.
The only truly disappointing part, imo, is his addons that are extremely boring and barely contribute to unique or new playstyles. He basically has cat carrier which allows funny immersive xeno memeing and acidic blood which is so situational and hard to get value from that it's not even worth it. Most addons are basically plain buffs or gimmicky info which is neat, but not interesting.
Thanks god im not alone thinking this !
Could not have said this better, Xenomorph is really great, more tunnels would be cool
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Xenomorph is my favorite (im one of the 3 xenomorph mains in the world probably), Pyramid head (honestly same) and Nemesis. For survivors, my favorite is Alessa. I love the Alien IP (probably my favorite IP overall) and Silent Hill. For Nemesis, i am no fan of RE as a whole but i really loved RE3 and Nemesis himself, so he's a bit behind the two others.
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What is the point of playing Xeno ?
I don't know, maybe it's a character that will appeal to fans of the Alien franchise for one.
Maybe despite the biais towards it, it's actually a unique killer that has many aspects than no other killers in the game have.
Many people are annoyed by turrets and the tail strike (mainly skill issue of them not understanding how the hitbox even work).
Xeno's kit allows for skill expression, as, and especially against. But, it is more macro than micro oriented. The tail is also more complex than Nemesis, you can do more with Xeno than Nemesis just with the verticality alone, and you can slide with the tail too, but, the tail is harder both in practical usage and in punishment for a miss, which turns a lot of people off. Comparison ends here, Nemesis and Xenomorph are very different killers.
Macro focused gameplay is usually very niche, Pinhead, Sadako and other macro killers are not liked much by the majority, but they still appeal to people (lovers of the IPs or just macro oriented people). The majority prefer mechanicals more straightforward killers like Billy, Wesker, Blight, Huntress etc.
Xeno offers an insane map control with stealth, informations and a devastating short ranged attack, it is one of the most well rounded killer ever made. You have almost everything you need in a killer's kit, the only thing that stops it is no dashes to catch up in chases and beat W gamers and it lacks time because turrets destroys it's momentum.
I can understand people being disapointed about it's kit being tail and tunnels instead of whatever ovomorphs or wall climbing that would have been complained about too anyway. But i can't understand how people can call this killer unfaithfull or unoriginal.
The adaptation is perfect for dbd. The Alien works the same as in Alien: Isolation, it roams in vents, search for it's prey, then emerge from it's hiding place and is very lethal (which is the tail instead of the run + one shot). The only way to repel it is with fire and you can find it with a motion tracker. It's the same ! It never climbed a wall/ceiling in A: Isolation and it's probably the best depict of Alien in a videogame, not a swarm of insects that gets killed of by marines, but a dangerous organism that you must avoid by strategy (hiding, settings traps, flamethrower, motion tracker etc) which is a better direction for a horror game.
They put the power budget in the Alien itself and it's for the better, i don't want to have Ovomorphs that are a "virus": You get infected then you have to get cleansed at a station or wtv + the tunnels and im an m1 killer because no more budget (or maybe we'll have a super weak chase power to give it something in chase and not break the budget).
Not to say the killers is perfect, i would like to limit the turrets just like Wesker (like it's rare to use them all but it is limited nonetheless) or at least do something about the motion tracker to up it's stealth gameplay (separate MT from Flamethrowers + give the Alien more basekit undetectable). Add ons could get some love, the only one that is perfect is self destruct bolt, it's fun and usefull. I don't like the two anti turrets add ons because they impact too much the Xeno's performance and discourage survivors. Turrets are too critical and should not be impacted by add ons for consistency and clarity to the survivors. Basekit turrets are fine, they will burn a Xeno or slow him down, the two add ons are too strong. Also it should get punished less for missed tail strike (1.6 or 2 m/s for 2.7s instead of 3s with 1.2 m/s).
I think the Alien is one of the saddest killer when it comes to this community. It has an amazing kit, allows for unique skill expression as being a very macro oriented killer for both side and is actually very fun. This is the only killer in the whole game where the survivors needs to prepare, you are not supposed to loop it just like any other killer, you are supposed to defend yourself with your knowledge of looping plus the unique tools at your disposal, you can loop it just like you would loop a Nemesis but it's not the right move to appreciate and be effective against such a killer.
This killer is pretty rare to face, but it's alright, Demo is considered by many to be a perfect killer and it's pretty rare too, not because it's not loved, but only because you have such crazy things to do with Wesker, Blight, Billy or other hymermobile suped with bugs named techs that can do 1000 things with one ability that is at base a straightforward dash. Huntress is another perfect exemple, with an ability as simple as throw hatchet you can do so much, from sneaky shots between planks to orbitals, no wonder people gravitate towards her instead of Cenobite, Sadako, Dredge or the others.
The least played killers are the most unique one: Cenobite, Sadako, Dredge, Singularity, Twins, Xenomorph, Pyramid head, Pig...
Truth is, people love two things: Simplicity and efficiency. Pyramid head is a complex killer to pick up and master, no one plays him, Billy was a complex killer to pick up and master with very punishing gameplay, no one played him.
Now, let us cook, up the speed, reduce the hitboxes to slide more, reduce the cooldowns (speed and actual time) and add an ultimate, and you have a less punishing, simpler and very straightforward but difficult to master one shotting killer. The receipe is to have a forgiving, very powerfull, simple to pick up with a high skill ceiling kit. Which is, in my opinion, not Xeno's case.
The point of playing Xeno is to play the Alien, it's not a better nemesis or a better Demogorgon just like Wesker is not a worse Blight or a worse Billy, yeah they dashes but they are not the same nonetheless...
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Xenomorph:
Brutal/Tinkerer/Trail of torment/Machine learning
Add ons: Cat carrier + Cereal
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To each their own i guess. By far my favorite killer in the game alongside pyramid head.
Lucky you, it's pretty rare to face one, not a lot of people care about it and the others simply hate it and wish it could be removed from the game (ironic since it was one of the 3 most demanded IP since the creation of the game).
Im trully convinced an IP has no meaning in this game. Vecna is way more popular that IPs like Silent Hill or Alien because their gameplay is "lacking". Either people expectation were way too high or it is simply a matter of fun/not fun. Maybe both. To be clear, i have nothing against Vecna, but a killer so unexpected is way more loved than Alien...
Anyway, Alien, one of the biggest horror IP ever, a true icon like never seen before, is one of the least popular and most hated killer in the game. I guess it was to be expected, but still, kinda sad.
As for my take on the matter:
- Tunnels are nothing like Demogorgon, you can find them boring but they are in fact, unique. Whole submap, footsteps detection and you are trully under them since you can hear their grunts. Vents and Alien are almost always a thing, this power is unique AND in character.
- People wanted a crawling killer.
- Tail strike is in fact, the least interesting thing about it, but people wanted a dash attack anyway, we have more dash attacks than short ranged one since it's the... second one after Nemesis.
- Turrets are also unique, motion tracker may be annoying since it "kills" stealth but it is also in character, there is a motion tracker in almost any Alien material, i fail to see the problem. Same for the flamethrower…
This killer follow the pattern of Alien: Isolation
- Roams in vents, appears, very dangerous in the 1v1/up close/when it finds you. Can be afraid by fire and detected by motion tracker.
- Yes there is no Ovomorph, acid blood or wall crawling. The first would be, since all of you love comparison to existing killers, a glorified pig. I don't think it could work, but it's the least insane one. Acid blood would have been a minor power, i don't think pallet melting or being injured by stunning the Xeno would have been fun at all... Wall crawling is just... no, they wanted to do it but could not, they have sayed it. This one is an expectation problem.
Not saying the killer is perfect, but it's design is really great for what dbd can offer.
- Add ons are mostly boring, i wanted something to play with the motion tracker part, to make it bug out and not work properly to be amp up the stealth, a "mirror" add on just like myers and some other. Cat carrier and Self destruct bolt are great, they are fun and changes your plans. Emergency helmet and star map should not exist, they make the counter to Xeno inconsistent, i think turrets should never change to properly counter the Alien, if they are to strong basekit (i think they are great), they we could nerf them.
- I would like a way to mess with the motion tracker basekit, not the flames, never the flames. But a way to be trully stealthy at time without removing the motion trackers.
- I would love more control stations, at time, tunnels are difficult to access and are located in difficult places. More way to access/exit them would make the Alien way more fun.
- Tail strike is designed to be very strong, if it was trully like Nemesis, we would not need flame turrets, this back and forth is the design, very powerfull and dangerous killer, but it can be repelled by fire.
It is a very lethal killer where you have to setup. You can, in fact, loop it without turrets but it is difficult and RNG based. I understand this design is maybe not what you all wanted or you realise only now that it's maybe not the best thing ever. But it is unique, in fact, no other killers in the game require you to setup and plan this much ahead. And by hearing all of you and seeing my games. People still don't know how to play around this killer.
Rant's over, lovely day to all.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743078#Comment_3743078
I am not sure I would want to play weak killers, when I know, players I am going to play against want to play against me.
You have perks that can hard counter some killer powers, so feature that will make you more likely to play against the specific killer could be heavily abused.
Yeah, true, im seeing this with the fun glasses, but people would just abuse it to bully/gain an advantage. Sad reality...
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What about the opposite ?
You can choose like 1-3 killers to favor (the MMR will try to match you with these killers) meaning the Blight lovers can play with them and i can take the everhated Xenomorph or PH from everyone.